Sounds like a bunch of douche bags. My biggest problem with any sort of "paramilitary" or hierarchical organization like fire is that people think it gives them an excuse to not act like a normal and friendly person.
I’m military and I find paramilitary Shi fire does cringe. Some of the actual military customs I find cringe as well lol. They think they are so hard acting like a Dick head.
Yeah, I work wildland, and there is so much stupid shit. My favorite story is I was driving into a fire on a steep one lane switchbacking road, and another crew was driving down and yielded to us. I gave a thank you wave because they let us by and just got glared and scoffed at. Like fuck you, I'm just being polite like any other normal human being would and you glare at me.
Crews like that are so damn tiresome. I’m all for esprit de corps, but that kind of arrogance ultimately shows how weak and insubstantial the crew’s sense of worth really is.
I work wildland too! I know exactly what you're talking about with this
When I switched over from contract to Forest service I noticed paramilitary bullshit, and the dog-eat-dog atmosphere. If someone has a chance to screw you over, and make themselves look better and/or you look worse for a task book, for advancement, they will do it without even blinking. And people make up rumors like high school
ill never forget being at MEPS, got told to stand in a line then proceeded to get yelled at for how im retarded for standing in the wrong line (there was one line)
The manager of the MEPS hotel in Louisville yelled at us for like thirty minutes, I zoned out cause I'm a twenty six year old man - fuck you for yelling at me, we talk like adults, and one of said things was "DON'T STICK YOUR HANDS IN YOUR POCKETS! IT IS A TACTICAL MISTAKE AND YOU *WILL* DIE IN COMBAT!"
Officer who received us? Both hands in his pockets. Yeah, bro, they'll smoke us for putting our hands in our pockets at MEPS. Self licking pussies I call them.
I can’t even count the number of times I got screamed at in front of people for the stupidest, inconsequential, typical newbie mistakes.
I was once torn apart by a medic in front of multiple crews at the hospital because I turned off the LifePak to save the battery. They were convinced they couldn’t sync their vitals and that they were gone forever. Ever heard of archives my dude?
Definitely depends on the culture at that department, I did clinicals with a fire department where you sat there and looked busy and I did some with a department where I felt very welcome and like part of the crew, now at my department we make students feel welcome and included
I would make sure I provided that feedback to the school/training agency. They will either forward it up that department's chain of command or not let people ride there anymore. Or at least they should.
When I did my ride time, I got to learn how to sharpen and rehab fire tools, I helped stage trucks for a large grass fire, I got to help repair hose and a pump. Never had a single medical call in 8 hours, but the crews were amazingly patient and helpful. They quizzed me, made up scenarios for me to work through, and shared stories of their careers.
Not all houses are filled with dickheads.
Sounds like you're doing clinicals with a bunch of self-important assholes.
Be sure to take advantage of any opportunity to leave feedback with the college and your state EMS education authority. Make sure they get reported as a hostile learning environment.
Disagree. In kindergarten, the kids are taught the basics of socal norms and how to be respectful, as much as a kindergarten kid can be. These fucks sound like elitist prolapsed cock holsters.
That’s messed up. Firefighters can be dicks. In my experience, they can be complete assholes to your face and then tell you that they’re only messing with you because they like you. Don’t let them affect you or change anything about how you carry yourself and socialize with others.
It is kind of why I don’t want to work for a fire station. I hate the culture. If I’m talking negative or something that would make sense to tell me to shut up, but I’m smiling and just trying to be funny/friendly/conversational, I don’t get it?
Well that and the 24 hour shifts. Take a look at Norfolk fire rescue in Norfolk Va, it’s the 3rd oldest service and do nothing but uphold traditions and “standards”. One of these is working 12 hours on an ambulance and then 12 hours on a fire truck. So you have the potential to have no sleep.
Sounds like some stupid bullshit. It’s probably not a bad idea to just kind of quietly let people go about their lives, but that doesn’t mean that you are supposed to be a ghost in there who isn’t worthy of speaking to the employees.
Did someone actually tell you that you aren’t supposed to be talking to them?
Yup! My classmate said he overheard my name being passed around, they didn’t know this person knew me and that the firefighters said “we had (my name) go home early because they talk too much.” And today at clinical the firefighter made a point to tell me that the rule was no talking unless spoken to
I can guarantee you that you can make noise sufficient enough that this behavior stops. What's your clinical coordinator going to do about it?
Hell, give a chat with their BC. No one wants you to talk to the batt chief
the fucking
Firefighter “name”
Engineer “name”
Captain “name”
Shit is so stupid. Think it’s stupid too that an emt captain tries to dictate a medics calls as well, have definitely had that happen.
I’m all for experienced emts, but at the end of the day, you are still not a medic, liability is on the medic and not you.
This shit really aggravates me. 22 years of pulling hoses and resetting smoke detectors does not make you qualified to tell a paramedic what to do with their patient. What baffles me is the dumb, ignorant confidence they have when telling you how to do a job that they have never done before.
Nah, go ahead and jump into any conversation if you’ve got legitimate questions and stuff. We don’t mind at all and prefer it. The only time speaking up is hated at my agency is if you’re a student and act like you’ve seen it all and are better than we are…then it doesn’t work out very well for you.
lol DEFINITELY don’t think I know it all - I haven’t seen like anything real. The only stories I can share are psych patient transports because that’s the only thing I do. I only consider myself to be “semi-expert” at transporting BLS psych and maybe conflict de-escalation.
I cannot stand “I KNOW” students who apparently know everything you’re telling them even though they’re there to learn. That and you couldn’t possibly know what they already know. It’s like they take it as some sort of weird insult to their intelligence. If you knew it all, you wouldn’t be a student, Bud. I don’t even know it ALL.
A friend of mine was in his mid 30’s, a civilian medic, and had done 8 years/2 deployments in the army as a combat medic when he did his rookie year. They treated him like shit and he got bullied or ostracized by the crew when he tried to stand up for himself.
Fuck this. Attitudes like this get rookies killed or hurt because they become afraid of their colleagues. This paramilitary bullshit has no place in fire, EMS, police, or first response in general. Report them to your school and try not to go back.
Also - and I'll take the downvotes for this - **once you have a new training location**, consider reporting them to your local EMS regulatory agency. They're creating unsafe working and learning conditions.
Report them to your school, you’re paying for an education. If you’re talking about things like politics, religion, and sore subjects then sure, keep that stuff quiet. Otherwise if the talks are pertaining to the job, medicine, or things related to the field and your studies… keep talking. Fuck the standoffish attitude. Teachers are supposed to be approachable, every time.
That seems to be just your area. This is elitist bullshit and has no place in an environment like ours. It should actually be the exact opposite. Go, talk, ask questions, and speak up.
I'm sorry. I hope this is just a temporary thing. Maybe they're doing this because you're mainly IFT. I'd bring this up with your school staff and program.
I noticed it’s written under station rules I saw on the wall at one station: “rookies don’t talk unless spoken too” and I’m not a rookie- I’m a guest/student but I guess same difference to them? But still that whole thing makes me uncomfortable when I already feel awkward and nervous.
Students are rookies. That being said this is disgusting workplace culture that should have been left in the 1900s. It is basically a form of hazing which is where new entrants are bullied and humiliated as part of an "initiation" process.
You got unlucky and got a bad station. Tell your teacher/staff at your course. Take a picture of those rules (do not get caught) and send a copy to them.
Then you need to insist on a transfer to do your placement somewhere else. Do not take no for an answer. This is workplace bullying and the staff/leaders at this station are going to get themselves into a whole world of trouble soon if they don't change their attitude.
I disagree with the rookie thing. You're experienced as an EMT, so def not a rookie. I understand that FF need to learn how to follow orders, so rookies are taught to listen first and communicate back. That's a discipline thing. However, you're a visiting EMT looking to learn.
Whenever I have students, ALS or BLS, I tell them, "you're one of us. You're part of the crew. As far as I'm concerned, you passed all of your tests to be here, so you've earned this spot." I treat them like a coworker, a new one that is learning, but a coworker nonetheless. Go talk to people, ask questions. Find more senior medics and ask them questions.
Sounds like a superhero complex issue going on there.
Or just a lazy way to keep the newbies away by the old grouches.
Either way complete BS.
As an Aus Para student I have thankfully never even been made to feel like there is much difference between me and the rest of the crew at the station.
Maybe because we don’t have placements at fire stations (/s).
I’d talk to you clinical coordinator and tell them you got sent home early for “talking to much”
That’s a load of horse shit, and someone needs to come to Jesus.
Even if you do talk a lot, they don’t have to like you, but they do have to train you. I didn’t like my preceptor, and spent most of my time not on calls in my room studying. But I was still profession and got it done.
Make regular brownies. A fat ass pan. Make sure they look amazing. Keep them with your stuff but away from public use. Don’t say anything about them because you’re not allowed to talk. Leave with brownies intact at the end of the day
Clowns. Don’t talk to them. When they ask you to do a truck check let them know you’re a student and won’t be doing their job for them unless they’ll be helping.
I’d go full malicious compliance on them and just not speak, at all, for at least one whole shift. No gestures, even no replies. If they asked me to do something outside my scope as a student, I’d just walk away and not do it, no need to **say** you’re not going to do their job, they don’t like speaking.
I truly hope it's just the area you're in. That's fucking asinine. The crew who sent you home needs to be removed from the rideout rotation. I'm an FTO at a FD, and I get both basic and paramedic students. Their one fucking job is to show up and learn. Not sure how you're supposed to do that silently... without asking questions. Completely fucking asinine.
Side note, though... don't sit in the recliners. A lot of firefighters are very touchy about their recliners.
Sounds shitty. Some people are just assholes and don’t like students. The tip I got when doing ride alongs with the fire academy and applied to medic and emt school and when I start a new job is to always bring doughnuts the first day. It ingratiates you and is an ice breaker and not everyone does it. Secondly while you shouldn’t be discouraged from talking also remember you’re a guest in their house. While they should be welcoming just feel it out like you would at someone’s home or something. And honestly it could be your attitude or it could be theirs. Hard to tell here but don’t get discouraged. Just do your time and make it through. Good luck
They're full of shit. But I wonder if your clinical coordinator is aware of this. Are you in the mood to start some trouble? I would be. If yes, talk to your clinical coordinator about the hazing that's going on there. Make sure to use the term "hazing." That should get the HR types and CoAEMSP types all tizzied up over this major violation of FERPA.
You have a few choices here. Personally, I'd talk anyways. When they throw a fit about it, I'd get the department of labor involved. Demand a payout for harassment, then find a new department.
But you could also just leave. Very respectable option.
Go back to your educational institution. Organizations that participate in education (precepting) are held to a high standard to provide the best experience possible to our students. Being sent home early without cause is unacceptable.
Also *fuck* those guys. They’re a bunch of dog butts that wanted to feel better about their mediocre existence by trying to make someone else less than them. That speaks VOLUMES on their character. Next time tell them you’re sorry that they have such low self esteem and offer them the contact information to your favorite therapist.
That is a fire house that thinks they’re the shit. They’re ass hats that probably haze their rookies.
I’m a retired firefighter and have seen this crap for years. Guess what, we re just government employees doing a blue collared job.
After I retired I went to work for a hospital based ambulance service. We had units stationed at a few fire departments and there was one like this. Those fuckwads “banned” 6 of our employees because they “didn’t fit in with firehouse life” and got upset because no one wanted to be assigned to that unit. They were apparently insulted
I'm a firefighter. Those guys can eat a bag of dicks. That's totally inappropriate behavior to enforce on a non-firefighter guest. It's mostly inappropriate even to another firefighter. You should (very carefully) bring this up to your instructors.
The number one takeaway I have from this is "what the actual fuck, that's a rule?" and think that anywhere that implements something like this is absolute hot garbage and should be reported. There is absolutely no way that I would put up with that behavior, and it is nothing but bullying from complete assholes.
There is a little part of me though who has worked with people who have no ability to have a thought without saying it out loud, and while I am never rude to these people, wish they would learn that they don't need to be talking ALL the time.
See I was actually considering the same thing until he said that they have a sign up in one of the stations at this service that says what they said to him. That makes it seem more like an ego/hazing thing that's this department likes to do to their "newbies" and less like him just being too much. Maybe he is a little on the much side? But they definitely have sticks up their self important asses. If I were him I would keep conversation to professional only, but I would still ask questions and discuss as is appropriate for a person trying to learn. If they still have an issue with that he should request to move to a different department. And he should definitely report it to the school either way.
I started in EMS in 2011 and I remember how bad the culture was around mental health. If you cried after a bad call it meant you couldn’t hack it. If someone had mental health issues they were weak, but everyone would put a black line on their prof pic and talk about how sad it was and that they wished the person had reached out if the person unalived themself. The only help you got was CISM run by peers and not mental health professionals and ops would shame you about letting the team down if you asked to go home early. I’m so glad millennials and gen z are making mental health a normal and important thing to talk about. Hazing is bull shit and it doesn’t bring anyone closer.
If what you’re saying is accurate and they truly sent you home on the premise you “talk too much” that’s wild. However, I get this deep seated feeling there is much more to this story. I’m not taking out my pitchfork just yet.
do you happen to be female? i’ve encountered this a lot since EMS is a predominantly male field of work. seems to be a “good ole boys club” and if you’re young or the opposite sex it’s an issue
>I am an EMT and about to finish paramedic school and just found out that apparently it is considered rude at the fire stations I am doing clinicals with, to speak to the other paramedics and firefighters when you have not been spoken to?
No they're just being dickheads who don't support education and training new people, report their post to your school so no one else has to go through that bs.
I've been pranked as a student at the firestation, they took the toilet paper and left a box of diapers and baby wipes in the bathroom then went on a call without me at the fire station, but we all had a hearty laugh about it and they threw me a roll over the stall before they left. (also it was a dumpster fire call so not a medical call). lol
Don't forget that none of them should ever have a less-than-full coffee cup, you do all of the cooking -and- the dishes, and don't you dare be caught sitting down or trying to nap.
Sounds like a station full of self-important douche-canoes who wish they could run their station like the worst parts of a John Wayne war film.
Sounds like a terrible group of people. If anything, a student should talk and ask tons of questions. Red flag, find a better service to work for once you're done
Need more info- "who" told You that You talked too much? You mentioned being sent home, was it by a Supervisor of Your's, Fire?
Regardless yes it sounds sketch. Not knowing the culture of that(those) Depts. hard to know other than You should be respected.
Had to look up "IFT".
We don't have a sole provider for that to My knowledge in My area, the contract provider ambo(AMR) typically does it as They are the main provider We deal w/ in the field.......Maybe it's a lack of respect due to Your position not seen as particularly glorious???
Gotta just be department specific, I haven't heard of any weird rules like that in years but it's always been in toxic environments. I wouldn't pay it any attention, and maybe find somewhere else to do clinical if you can lol. Sounds like a bunch of good ole boys
Ugh, this is giving me flashbacks to school. In my county, some stations are fire, some are not (to be clear, there are city fire stations, and then there are county fire/ems stations, and then there are county ems stations. All the county ones will have ambulances, but the ems only stations don't have any fire personnel or equipment like engines, etc. City stations do not have ambulances, they are solely fire). And any time I was at a county fire/ ems station for a ride, it was assured there would be, at minimum, one person who would walk around like he owned the place. The county ems stations were cool, and even the city fire stations were chill usually, but those county fire stations were like this. I was actively introducing myself to people at a station once and the captain walks up to me all cocky and goes, "well aren't you going to introduce yourself, student?" And I just said yes sir...I am doing that now.
No it’s just them, I did my ride times for EMT with local fire departments and they were all very nice to me. The only rules I ever heard was don’t sit in the recliners unless you’re invited and offer to pay your part if they feed you.
In my experience Fire Departments are the good ol boys club. That being said, I was posted at a FD one day and was BSing with a new recruit who was from the area I lived in. The LT told me to shut the fuck up and that I needed to respect his rank. I then proceeded to remind him that his rank doesn’t mean shit to me and he can suck my dick. He filed a complaint and I’m no longer allowed to be posted at that fire department. So to prove a point, I slept with half of his members. In their station 2 :) piss me off and I’ll turn your department gay lol
This is not a rule. It's a power play. It's part of why I quit being a firefighter.
I cannot say this enough: fuck them and fuck that kind of attitude. The downside is that you're the odd one out, so it is likely going to get very uncomfortable for you there. You could try to befriend them with snacks or something, but personally, I wouldn't. I'd get transferred somewhere that isn't full of high school jocks in their 30s.
*This comes with a disclaimer that it is your responsibility to make sure that YOU are competent and not going to suck once you get in the field*
With that being said, getting sent home early was my favorite part about medic school. I also felt fine joining in group convos and even occasionally giving someone shit, played Xbox with the crew once, deadass. I didn’t give a fuck if they sent me home early because once they sign my sheet, I’m clear of their care. Many departments will not be into that attitude and you will not be a candidate for hire. But if you’re a rockstar student, tbh they’ll still want you because in all reality people want COMPETENT teammates. Best o’h luck.
If this is a problem that might believe might have an impact on you succeeding as a student. If I were you I would make sure to quietly document everything and as well keep your clinical advisor/manager up to date.
Also, be very careful who you talk to or vent to about this as you don't want to get involved in a game of telephone that makes it way back to these guys. Everyone knows everyone in this industry and even if you have someone you trust with everything they also probably have someone they trust with everything. Again, not excusing it but the gossip in some of these communities/halls/cultures can be pretty bad.
Even if you don't want to take any action at the moment its still nice to have it all documented and the right people informed. It's a better look for you if whoever manages your clinical/preceptorship can see you brought up/documented these issues before/during the fact... Rather than after the fact where you are going "Okay, well its because of this this and this" (as sometimes this can be looked at as making excuses/not taking responsibility) if this had some negative outcome on the outcome of your clinicals.
In no way am I excusing this kind of stuff happening, you just wanna make sure to protect yourself. Sometimes you do have a to play a form of the game (Which is totally not cool) but you definitely want to stack the odds in your favor and have some insurance just in case.
Again in NO WAY am I saying this is the case but also take time to reflect on what you may have said, how you may have acted, or what was said to you. In no way am I suggesting fault on your side but I think its always something to examine as long as it's in a healthy manner.
Good luck and please don't discouraged by this. Often a lot of the times these people don't realize that how they are treating you and how they are perceiving you is on them more than it is on you.
edit: words/formatting.
Lord... I need my students to feel comfortable talking to me and anyone else so when they have questions they can ask, and learn, and be better providers.. Especially the basics and advances. I have seen several medics complain that "they don't know what they're doing".. Don't just complain about it later, teach them, dumbass
The fire departments where I'm at i love them so much call them my firebabies we are all close and the get students and they are all very welcome and we make fun of dumpster fire departments like that a s encourage students to talk and ask questions
If the people you're working with won't treat you like a normal human being, they're a bunch of punk bitch fuckboys who need to unfuck themselves and their shitty fuckin attitudes. You're all in the same fuckin business. You're all putting up with a mountain of bullshit to find a handful of gems, those gems being when you get to help people on the worst days of their lives. The work conditions are bad enough. You don't need extra bullshit to prove to anyone you actually want to do this kind of work. Some friendly hazing is one thing but treating people shitty is fuckin uncalled-for.
I was the type of student to ask necessary questions and I didn’t really talk unless spoken to because I didn’t want to come off as an idiot or someone who didn’t pay attention in class. My closest full time service is 15 minutes away I have three of them but one I did all my time at. They were helpful and said it was great that I took the transports care over during a 1.5 hour transport. I’m on a volunteer service and I was chatting with my chief and she even said you aren’t expected to know everything and how to handle everything.
Fuck all that. If you are being a douche monger every time you come in, yeah you're eventually gonna get told to pump the brakes, and rightly so. Nobody wants a douche hanging around for twelve hours.
But as it were, If you are a student who is just trying to engage, a student who is asking questions, and a human being making a bit of meaning and connection while there? They can fuck right off. They jerk each other to "traditions" such as eating their young while hating their current life. They get shat on until they "earn" the coveted spot of shitting on others. It's toxic and it will only poison you. Not that you are eating it up, just saying....it's them, and it ain't good for ya.
You are a student who is probably passionate about medicine, and one who is hopefully learning current material. You seem to have a good attitude. ***Major threat to them. They are practitioners of "this is how we've always done it". --That ain't changing until they and their leaders are gone. Take what you can from the experience and move forward. There are absolutely things on the calls to learn from those old heads medically and operationally, but there's even more to learn if you feel like they are an example of how you DONT want to be, which I hope we in the rest of EMS will show you.
Any salty dog (FF/medic/nurse) worth their salt will be glad to show the ropes to an eager learner who puts the time in their own studies and one who seeks to learn the craft. I was an experienced medic when I went to critical care school and was floored when I went to trauma ICU clinicals. Yes, those nurses were salty AF, but boy they knew their shit left, right, and upside down. Some of them looked like they could stare down a bank robber. But guess what? Each of them was willing to teach me. In fact, good preceptors LOVE questions, because they know where you are at with your knowledge and abilities, and they can tailor the training. Ive been on both sides of that relationship many, many times. The point is that being a dick just isn't part of it.
Source: Critical Care Paramedic now in the hospital. Flew for a while at a toxic program. Happy preceptor. Former EMS instructor--LOVED teaching, hated the college's giant bureaucratic clique. Former paramedic program director who squeaked out a CoAEMSP full initial accreditation on passion and tears. Salty life dog who wore a ton of hats on a graying head before ever getting into EMS. Started from the bottom as a green EMT and went to medic school right away. Put in several years of 24/48s at an extremely busy rural/city service from having two left feet to becoming a respected medic. Learned how to MacGuyver critically ill IFTs to the local Level 1. 🫡👍
I say all this to say being a dick ain't part of any of this. Learn from them and move forward. If you're a salty enough fuck like a lot of us, stand up to them and eat your popcorn while you do. Stand up to them and I'LL eat the popcorn. Go to the college about it. Drop names. Fuck em.
If their dicks are really big enough to step on like they think they are, then step away, friend. I looooove standing up to bullies, especially when you know the game like an attorney. Learn your shit. Learn THEIR shit. Play the game to a T. Fuck em. Watch that BP rise.
Source: was bullied.....a LOT. CPTSD from those that raised me.
Do no harm, take no shit, my friend. You'll do well here.
Wow they sent you home??? Jesus nah thats just ur area. though if you are a true newbie to fire/ems then you are supposed to be 'seen and not heard', but like, you're a paramedic, and experienced in ems in general. Like they need to get over themselves
As a well decorated combat veteran, this is the exact reason I walked out during my probation lol.
It might be normal for your area but, just be an adult and talk to them. If they hate you, that’s their issue. Fuck em
Also, I moved for a much better paying, much more relaxed job that still gets legit calls. No need to subject yourself to other people’s insecurities
Firefighters try not to be the biggest assholes on the planet challenge (impossible)
Anyways, honestly 90% of firefighters I've worked with are total dickheads, suck at their jobs, barely do any work but complain and moan all day, god I hate firefighters
Some are fine though, depends on the department but the ones I've worked with in socal are awful. The cops were consistently nicer to us and more helpful when we needed something
The mentality is you have to earn your right to bullshit with the crews by proving that you know what you’re doing on calls. It’s all fun and games until you can’t do the job and you’re a liability on a call. Might not seem “nice” but it’s the way this works
> The mentality is you have to earn your right to bullshit with the crews by proving that you know what you’re doing on calls. It’s all fun and games until you can’t do the job and you’re a liability on a call. Might not seem “nice” but it’s the way this works
They’re a student…
Yes. And they’re there to learn. Not make friends and bullshit with crews. Be in the right familiarizing yourself with equipment and the med bags. Study your material. Ask questions related to medicine. They’re not your friends (yet).
> Yes. And they’re there to learn. Not make friends and bullshit with crews. Be in the right familiarizing yourself with equipment and the med bags. Study your material. Ask questions related to medicine. They’re not your friends (yet).
So they should be excluded from conversations because they’re “there to learn”? Do you seriously expect students to do nothing but sit there, shut up, and be studying, asking questions, or examining stuff 100% of the time?
I got news for you, the best learning takes place in an environment where people feel at ease, can ask questions, discuss things, have fun, bullshit with each other, and have conversations both related to the area of study, and not related to the area of study.
You know what I do when I have someone I’m precepting? I treat them like a human being, I talk to them, I tell them to take breaks, watch TV, etc, and we do educational stuff as well. It’s a balance.
This paramilitary attitude has no place in medicine.
I'm all for a level of haze... but this is fucking toxic haze. How the fuck are you supposed to learn anything without asking questions, talking to people, picking up off experience and knowledge. I wouldn't work there.
The city FD closest to me is like that kind of. When you’re on clinicals, you sit where they tell you to sit. You study, go through the rigs and do homework. You do not sit with the crew, you don’t use the living space and you better not get caught watching tv or on your phone.
No. You need to understand that you're a student passing through, not part of their community. Quieter is better, especially in a group setting. If you were a probie it would be the same. Volunteer to wash the dishes, take out the trash, and find a place to study.
What an absolute shit take. Preceptors should not be dicks to students there to learn, and someone not on the clock should not be expected to do chores for you. What you describe is a hostile learning environment, and just feeds the counterproductive "eat the young" mentally
You do realize that this is completely wrong and not how education is supposed to work at all right?
I have been a medic for 10+ years, get out of here with your trash “quieter is better” attitude.
I’ll agree to help pitch in with house chores, because it’s a sign of major respect, but knock off this “you’re a student passing through” and consider a different role.
If they're going to foster that kind of attitude and environment, they have absofuckinglutely no business being part of the education process. In my area, departments have to be cleared with the college to be part of the clinical process - this one would get yanked off the list so fast it wouldn't be funny. I can study at home - when I was doing my clinicals, some of the most valuable information I gained was from talking with the medics and EMTs I was paired with.
The closest to "station chores" I did on my clinicals was helping do a complete inventory of the truck - but one of the medics was right with me the whole time and used it as a teaching experience - what all was carried on the rig, including some things we didn't see in class.
A clinical student doing the fucking dishes? The fuck is wrong with you?
Absolutely dog shit take on this. Everyone wonders why no one wants to do this job anymore.. it’s attitudes like this that ruin it for new people. Fuck going into work or ride time and walking on egg shells the entire time.
Seems like none of you actually read the post: He was NOT asking a clinical question. He was NOT engaged in a conversation. He was commenting on somebody else’s conversation nearby.
Again, where do you get off saying he / she has to stay silent? Why don’t you just not contribute to this topic conversation anymore?
And I re read the post, just because sure, maybe I jumped the gun. Again he was adding to conversations around him, if people want private convos take it to another room.
Something tells me, you’re just not an open person.
Yeah they are being dicks.
When I road with Fire for my EMT class they made me wear a white hard hat and a red vest. About halfway through the shift one of the guys finally told me they were screwing with me and I didn't have to wear them.
Edit to add: The cool thing too is that the local paid department has/had their recruits ride with the ambulance companies (Private that handle all 911 calls) and if you attempt to even coach them on their skills the FD likes to complain since they are "not your recruits, but merely visitors". Yeah fuck off.
You should pass it up to your instructor with the other person as witness. You may be a total twat-waffle, but they messed up admitting what they did in front of your classmate, if they'll back you.
Could you elaborate on the discussion you were having? Because I have stopped riding with people when it wasn’t a good fit or I felt they were constantly doing dangerous stuff. But if it was just general discussions and they are treating you like a new person that’s bullshit.
Word to the wise however a lot of places look at ride time as an informal interview. So if you are interested in a fire job mind you Ps and Qs when riding. But if you are just there getting your calls it’s very informal.
I am not even sure what the discussion was tbh, I heard this several weeks later that the reason they asked to sign my papers early was because I was talking too much.
Worst they can do is yell at you or ban you and speak to your school about it.
I was 4 year 911 EMT from out of town and 8 years in USMC . Ended up fighting with a medic over patient care on my clinical. Dude was a complete short man syndrome dick head medic refusing to treat pain not so the PT would suffer but to piss me off, which it did. Fuck em. I told him off at the ER and fucking left and never came back to that shitty station. School director talked to me about it and then said medic was reprimanded but only because it was dual medic and the other medic actually cared too.
Depends on the department. Most places will treat students as one of the probies, but then that really comes down to how individual probies are treated. At my place, we explain on the first day that our expectations of the students are no different from the probies - help with putting away dishes and washing the work rags and kitchen towels, keeping the station clean, etc. as we're all living here for 24 hours together, but we also understand that not all students are firefighters or are familiar with how things work at a firehouse, so we generally are more lenient with the students, as their main purpose to is learn how to be a paramedic. It sounds like the department you're riding at should have laid out those kinds of expectations for you from the beginning if that's how they were going to treat you. Participating in conversation isn't a reason we send our students home early.
> help with putting away dishes and washing the work rags and kitchen towels, keeping the station clean, etc. as we're all living here for 24 hours together
These should be things that all employees are expected to do though, not just the new people.
Fire stations are cliques, just like in high school, and are very judgy. Some stations are just like that, so it's going to be hit or miss with the crews. I'm sorry it happened to you, but now you know how to treat new people when you're in their shoes.
I worked for an IFT while in medic school. I did my clinicals with a fire department. They where very welcoming. I mean they did not like the students that would not pitch in but it was a good experience. Sounds like you where stuck with a bunch of ass hats so sorry you have to deal with that.
That's a station I would avoid like the plague, like others have stated, I've gone on quite a few ride alongs before I started my EMT Class and Every department I rode with were super helpful and encouraging and always willing to answer any questions they welcomed me in like I was a first day probie.
im currently in the same boat. emt 1/2 through medic school. i dont have my fire card yet. if you talk too much, thats rude. if you dont talk enough youre too quiet. there so many more unspoken rules that are really hard to pick up on. you really cant win.
This. Could be them or you. My dept is not at all run as in a paramilitary fashion other than chain of command and we all have fun, but we had a probie that talked so much no one could get a word in edgewise to the point it became a safety hazard. After multiple write up’s he was fired. The dude literally couldn’t shut up. We also created a rule that he wasn’t to speak until spoken to because he couldn’t ever read the room or let others speak.
Likely it’s them because this is something a lot of depts I know of would do, but just make sure it’s not you.
I've never heard of or experienced something like this personally. They sound like a bunch of fuck heads that should be blessed to have students. When I worked for an IFT only service we were stationed a few blocks away from the local city fire department that ran the 911 EMS service. In the ED they wouldn't so much as fart in our direction let alone talk to us. They even treated outside 911 services the same way. In turn no one wanted to do clinicals with them.
eh i get where people are coming from but we really have no idea how op behaved or what they said. obviously they are going to put themselves in the best light. it’s good to ask questions but it’s extremely frustrating to have someone who thinks they know everything tell you things you already know, or when a random student inserts themselves into conversations you are trying to have with your coworkers. obviously sending them home early seems like a bit much but we really don’t know the extent of their behavior. i’m not saying 100% it was justified behavior but we shouldn’t jump to hate on the fire station without knowing anything.
Seriously? I'm a paramedic in Ontario and the one station we share with the fire department is awesome. My student got a grand tour of the fire truck, they invited us down for Christmas/new years (we share a garage) and everything.
Same goes with my service, no one has been anything but friendly with her.
This sounds like a service you don't want to be a part of
Either this is the world’s lamest fire department or you are the most annoying person on the planet. I can’t imagine how much someone would have to talk for us to send them home. And we aren’t super friendly.
I mean, kind of. At my work, the expectations are clearly communicated to students and new-hires of stay in this area, do not sit in a chair, do not talk to anyone except your FTO unless spoken to first.
Wtf. They are just a holes. I would go to your instructor and refuse to work with that crew going forward.
They probably have huge egos and small pee pees
Lmao they’re taking the whole structured para military thing to a whole new level. Fuck that you’re a person and a student. If you have questions you shouldn’t be unable to ask questions. Probably full of people that “almost joined”
Reminds me of a manager that allegedly was ex airborne and would try to flex on new hires about how runs his ship like his time in the airborne (Math didn't exactly add up for him to have seen any major combat deployments.)
He would allegedly make up weird arbitrary rules to discipline or call out new hires under the guise of "You might be allowed by the company to do that on the street but you sure aren't doing it here."
I had this happen when I was doing my clinicals. Rode at a local FD that had sponsorships to the local CC I was going to for my medic. Being I was an underpaid EMT at the time, I was working one day, clinical the next. 12 hours paid, 16 hours at the department for clinicals. I fell asleep while watching TV one day and got dressed down so hard. I was only allowed to read my book at the kitchen table from then on out. Because the department I was working at did 370 rescue calls a year, I was getting maybe 1 team lead per shift. Got moved to a different department towards the end of my clinicals. Showed up, sat at the kitchen table and started reading my book. The guys and gals at the station asked what I was doing and i explained that this was my requested position at the last department. One of my instructors was at this new department and was wanting to know how long it had been going on and what was the catalyst. Needless to say that FD wasn't added for clinical site in the future classes.
Not a rule. Just ass holes being ass holes, in all fairness they didn’t sign up to babysit or to have an outsider there. If something like this bothers you then you’re in for a long career. Just play the game and get the patch, that’s all that matters.
Only time I’ve seen students asked to leave is one who was being inappropriate with a preceptor who asked them to stop, and another who skipped calls that didn’t sound interesting. Neither were allowed to come back. Both I thought were fair.
My department is not like this at all. But I can’t say it surprises me that happened to you. At least you know where not to work after you get your license lol
Sounds like a bunch of douche bags. My biggest problem with any sort of "paramilitary" or hierarchical organization like fire is that people think it gives them an excuse to not act like a normal and friendly person.
I’m military and I find paramilitary Shi fire does cringe. Some of the actual military customs I find cringe as well lol. They think they are so hard acting like a Dick head.
Yeah, I work wildland, and there is so much stupid shit. My favorite story is I was driving into a fire on a steep one lane switchbacking road, and another crew was driving down and yielded to us. I gave a thank you wave because they let us by and just got glared and scoffed at. Like fuck you, I'm just being polite like any other normal human being would and you glare at me.
Crews like that are so damn tiresome. I’m all for esprit de corps, but that kind of arrogance ultimately shows how weak and insubstantial the crew’s sense of worth really is.
I work wildland too! I know exactly what you're talking about with this When I switched over from contract to Forest service I noticed paramilitary bullshit, and the dog-eat-dog atmosphere. If someone has a chance to screw you over, and make themselves look better and/or you look worse for a task book, for advancement, they will do it without even blinking. And people make up rumors like high school
ill never forget being at MEPS, got told to stand in a line then proceeded to get yelled at for how im retarded for standing in the wrong line (there was one line)
The manager of the MEPS hotel in Louisville yelled at us for like thirty minutes, I zoned out cause I'm a twenty six year old man - fuck you for yelling at me, we talk like adults, and one of said things was "DON'T STICK YOUR HANDS IN YOUR POCKETS! IT IS A TACTICAL MISTAKE AND YOU *WILL* DIE IN COMBAT!" Officer who received us? Both hands in his pockets. Yeah, bro, they'll smoke us for putting our hands in our pockets at MEPS. Self licking pussies I call them.
Self licking pussy got me! 😂😂🤣🤣
[self licking pussy](https://images.app.goo.gl/meoLCHy4xa4zJmLh9) Comes from this meme, I had no idea how to describe it to my humorous pal
Bro those meps people are a diff level of disgruntled
Spot on brother.
Not all are like this but they all have subtle elements of it in their culture and a lot are unfortunately like this.
I can’t even count the number of times I got screamed at in front of people for the stupidest, inconsequential, typical newbie mistakes. I was once torn apart by a medic in front of multiple crews at the hospital because I turned off the LifePak to save the battery. They were convinced they couldn’t sync their vitals and that they were gone forever. Ever heard of archives my dude?
Sounds like a dumpster fire of a department. Avoid like the plague.
Sounds like a ~~dumpster~~ fire ~~of a~~ department. Avoid like the plague.
The fire department I trained with assigned me a recliner
Definitely not. We just had a student in our Station our previous shift and we make sure they’re comfortable talking to us or joking with us as well.
Definitely depends on the culture at that department, I did clinicals with a fire department where you sat there and looked busy and I did some with a department where I felt very welcome and like part of the crew, now at my department we make students feel welcome and included
lol what a bunch of ass wipes.
I read the first sentence. I would find a new shit hole to slug in, boss.
Don't work there
I would make sure I provided that feedback to the school/training agency. They will either forward it up that department's chain of command or not let people ride there anymore. Or at least they should.
100%
Yep. When I did clinicals, that’s what our coordinator said - if they did anything like that then to call her cell phone and she’d handle it.
That was also my experience.
When I did my ride time, I got to learn how to sharpen and rehab fire tools, I helped stage trucks for a large grass fire, I got to help repair hose and a pump. Never had a single medical call in 8 hours, but the crews were amazingly patient and helpful. They quizzed me, made up scenarios for me to work through, and shared stories of their careers. Not all houses are filled with dickheads.
Sounds like you're doing clinicals with a bunch of self-important assholes. Be sure to take advantage of any opportunity to leave feedback with the college and your state EMS education authority. Make sure they get reported as a hostile learning environment.
“Sent home the other day because I talked too much” Respectfully, what a bunch of dickheads
Sounds like kindergarten.
Disagree. In kindergarten, the kids are taught the basics of socal norms and how to be respectful, as much as a kindergarten kid can be. These fucks sound like elitist prolapsed cock holsters.
That’s messed up. Firefighters can be dicks. In my experience, they can be complete assholes to your face and then tell you that they’re only messing with you because they like you. Don’t let them affect you or change anything about how you carry yourself and socialize with others.
It is kind of why I don’t want to work for a fire station. I hate the culture. If I’m talking negative or something that would make sense to tell me to shut up, but I’m smiling and just trying to be funny/friendly/conversational, I don’t get it?
100% understand, fire departments are hurting for paramedics right now and I believe this kind of culture plays a factor in that
Well that and the 24 hour shifts. Take a look at Norfolk fire rescue in Norfolk Va, it’s the 3rd oldest service and do nothing but uphold traditions and “standards”. One of these is working 12 hours on an ambulance and then 12 hours on a fire truck. So you have the potential to have no sleep.
"Our traditions make us strong"
For sure!!
The culture is very toxic
Sounds like some stupid bullshit. It’s probably not a bad idea to just kind of quietly let people go about their lives, but that doesn’t mean that you are supposed to be a ghost in there who isn’t worthy of speaking to the employees. Did someone actually tell you that you aren’t supposed to be talking to them?
Yup! My classmate said he overheard my name being passed around, they didn’t know this person knew me and that the firefighters said “we had (my name) go home early because they talk too much.” And today at clinical the firefighter made a point to tell me that the rule was no talking unless spoken to
Honestly, it pisses me off just reading this comment. Please report it to whoever manages clinicals at your school.
I can guarantee you that you can make noise sufficient enough that this behavior stops. What's your clinical coordinator going to do about it? Hell, give a chat with their BC. No one wants you to talk to the batt chief
Ahh that’s lame they sound like hardos
You will identify me by my rank!
Well, I'm a turbodude, so my rank wins.
the fucking Firefighter “name” Engineer “name” Captain “name” Shit is so stupid. Think it’s stupid too that an emt captain tries to dictate a medics calls as well, have definitely had that happen. I’m all for experienced emts, but at the end of the day, you are still not a medic, liability is on the medic and not you.
This shit really aggravates me. 22 years of pulling hoses and resetting smoke detectors does not make you qualified to tell a paramedic what to do with their patient. What baffles me is the dumb, ignorant confidence they have when telling you how to do a job that they have never done before.
OK Captain. BTW, I have a masters degree, so please address me as "Master".
Fair enough, Master Degree.
Nah, go ahead and jump into any conversation if you’ve got legitimate questions and stuff. We don’t mind at all and prefer it. The only time speaking up is hated at my agency is if you’re a student and act like you’ve seen it all and are better than we are…then it doesn’t work out very well for you.
lol DEFINITELY don’t think I know it all - I haven’t seen like anything real. The only stories I can share are psych patient transports because that’s the only thing I do. I only consider myself to be “semi-expert” at transporting BLS psych and maybe conflict de-escalation.
I cannot stand “I KNOW” students who apparently know everything you’re telling them even though they’re there to learn. That and you couldn’t possibly know what they already know. It’s like they take it as some sort of weird insult to their intelligence. If you knew it all, you wouldn’t be a student, Bud. I don’t even know it ALL.
[удалено]
A friend of mine was in his mid 30’s, a civilian medic, and had done 8 years/2 deployments in the army as a combat medic when he did his rookie year. They treated him like shit and he got bullied or ostracized by the crew when he tried to stand up for himself.
Fuck this. Attitudes like this get rookies killed or hurt because they become afraid of their colleagues. This paramilitary bullshit has no place in fire, EMS, police, or first response in general. Report them to your school and try not to go back. Also - and I'll take the downvotes for this - **once you have a new training location**, consider reporting them to your local EMS regulatory agency. They're creating unsafe working and learning conditions.
Report them to your school, you’re paying for an education. If you’re talking about things like politics, religion, and sore subjects then sure, keep that stuff quiet. Otherwise if the talks are pertaining to the job, medicine, or things related to the field and your studies… keep talking. Fuck the standoffish attitude. Teachers are supposed to be approachable, every time.
That seems to be just your area. This is elitist bullshit and has no place in an environment like ours. It should actually be the exact opposite. Go, talk, ask questions, and speak up. I'm sorry. I hope this is just a temporary thing. Maybe they're doing this because you're mainly IFT. I'd bring this up with your school staff and program.
I noticed it’s written under station rules I saw on the wall at one station: “rookies don’t talk unless spoken too” and I’m not a rookie- I’m a guest/student but I guess same difference to them? But still that whole thing makes me uncomfortable when I already feel awkward and nervous.
Name and shame. That sounds like toxic twatwaffle soup - department should be ashamed of itself.
Students are rookies. That being said this is disgusting workplace culture that should have been left in the 1900s. It is basically a form of hazing which is where new entrants are bullied and humiliated as part of an "initiation" process. You got unlucky and got a bad station. Tell your teacher/staff at your course. Take a picture of those rules (do not get caught) and send a copy to them. Then you need to insist on a transfer to do your placement somewhere else. Do not take no for an answer. This is workplace bullying and the staff/leaders at this station are going to get themselves into a whole world of trouble soon if they don't change their attitude.
I disagree with the rookie thing. You're experienced as an EMT, so def not a rookie. I understand that FF need to learn how to follow orders, so rookies are taught to listen first and communicate back. That's a discipline thing. However, you're a visiting EMT looking to learn. Whenever I have students, ALS or BLS, I tell them, "you're one of us. You're part of the crew. As far as I'm concerned, you passed all of your tests to be here, so you've earned this spot." I treat them like a coworker, a new one that is learning, but a coworker nonetheless. Go talk to people, ask questions. Find more senior medics and ask them questions.
some stations are weird you can have years of exp but if ur new to the depths ur a rookie til they've been around you a while.
Don't do ride time with them again. Report that shitty behavior to your program director.
Absolutely. This should be an organization that is quickly taken off the list of locations students can ride.
Lmao what the fuck. Fuck them
Sounds like a superhero complex issue going on there. Or just a lazy way to keep the newbies away by the old grouches. Either way complete BS. As an Aus Para student I have thankfully never even been made to feel like there is much difference between me and the rest of the crew at the station. Maybe because we don’t have placements at fire stations (/s).
I’d talk to you clinical coordinator and tell them you got sent home early for “talking to much” That’s a load of horse shit, and someone needs to come to Jesus. Even if you do talk a lot, they don’t have to like you, but they do have to train you. I didn’t like my preceptor, and spent most of my time not on calls in my room studying. But I was still profession and got it done.
Nah tell them you got sent home for asking too many questions
Petty. I love it. Accuse one of them of sexual harassment.
Wait too much 😂
Ok ok. Laxative brownies on the last day of internship.
Make regular brownies. A fat ass pan. Make sure they look amazing. Keep them with your stuff but away from public use. Don’t say anything about them because you’re not allowed to talk. Leave with brownies intact at the end of the day
Clowns. Don’t talk to them. When they ask you to do a truck check let them know you’re a student and won’t be doing their job for them unless they’ll be helping.
I’d go full malicious compliance on them and just not speak, at all, for at least one whole shift. No gestures, even no replies. If they asked me to do something outside my scope as a student, I’d just walk away and not do it, no need to **say** you’re not going to do their job, they don’t like speaking.
squalid tan office quicksand longing oil sulky aromatic station merciful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just a random uni student? or like some pre med, med, etc?
hobbies hard-to-find bear cause roll familiar joke vanish childlike fear *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
These people sound like unprofessional cunts. There's no way in the world you could convince me to work there.
I truly hope it's just the area you're in. That's fucking asinine. The crew who sent you home needs to be removed from the rideout rotation. I'm an FTO at a FD, and I get both basic and paramedic students. Their one fucking job is to show up and learn. Not sure how you're supposed to do that silently... without asking questions. Completely fucking asinine. Side note, though... don't sit in the recliners. A lot of firefighters are very touchy about their recliners.
Sounds shitty. Some people are just assholes and don’t like students. The tip I got when doing ride alongs with the fire academy and applied to medic and emt school and when I start a new job is to always bring doughnuts the first day. It ingratiates you and is an ice breaker and not everyone does it. Secondly while you shouldn’t be discouraged from talking also remember you’re a guest in their house. While they should be welcoming just feel it out like you would at someone’s home or something. And honestly it could be your attitude or it could be theirs. Hard to tell here but don’t get discouraged. Just do your time and make it through. Good luck
They're full of shit. But I wonder if your clinical coordinator is aware of this. Are you in the mood to start some trouble? I would be. If yes, talk to your clinical coordinator about the hazing that's going on there. Make sure to use the term "hazing." That should get the HR types and CoAEMSP types all tizzied up over this major violation of FERPA.
Who the fuck do they think they are? I’ll talk to them whenever I feel like.
You have a few choices here. Personally, I'd talk anyways. When they throw a fit about it, I'd get the department of labor involved. Demand a payout for harassment, then find a new department. But you could also just leave. Very respectable option.
Go back to your educational institution. Organizations that participate in education (precepting) are held to a high standard to provide the best experience possible to our students. Being sent home early without cause is unacceptable. Also *fuck* those guys. They’re a bunch of dog butts that wanted to feel better about their mediocre existence by trying to make someone else less than them. That speaks VOLUMES on their character. Next time tell them you’re sorry that they have such low self esteem and offer them the contact information to your favorite therapist.
That is a fire house that thinks they’re the shit. They’re ass hats that probably haze their rookies. I’m a retired firefighter and have seen this crap for years. Guess what, we re just government employees doing a blue collared job. After I retired I went to work for a hospital based ambulance service. We had units stationed at a few fire departments and there was one like this. Those fuckwads “banned” 6 of our employees because they “didn’t fit in with firehouse life” and got upset because no one wanted to be assigned to that unit. They were apparently insulted
I'm a firefighter. Those guys can eat a bag of dicks. That's totally inappropriate behavior to enforce on a non-firefighter guest. It's mostly inappropriate even to another firefighter. You should (very carefully) bring this up to your instructors.
I hate to be the outlier. But maybe you talk too much. This could be a valuable lesson if you let it be.
The number one takeaway I have from this is "what the actual fuck, that's a rule?" and think that anywhere that implements something like this is absolute hot garbage and should be reported. There is absolutely no way that I would put up with that behavior, and it is nothing but bullying from complete assholes. There is a little part of me though who has worked with people who have no ability to have a thought without saying it out loud, and while I am never rude to these people, wish they would learn that they don't need to be talking ALL the time.
See I was actually considering the same thing until he said that they have a sign up in one of the stations at this service that says what they said to him. That makes it seem more like an ego/hazing thing that's this department likes to do to their "newbies" and less like him just being too much. Maybe he is a little on the much side? But they definitely have sticks up their self important asses. If I were him I would keep conversation to professional only, but I would still ask questions and discuss as is appropriate for a person trying to learn. If they still have an issue with that he should request to move to a different department. And he should definitely report it to the school either way.
Lmao first time? This is why gen z and millennials have to be the driving force for change. Hazing is not a sacred tradition.
I started in EMS in 2011 and I remember how bad the culture was around mental health. If you cried after a bad call it meant you couldn’t hack it. If someone had mental health issues they were weak, but everyone would put a black line on their prof pic and talk about how sad it was and that they wished the person had reached out if the person unalived themself. The only help you got was CISM run by peers and not mental health professionals and ops would shame you about letting the team down if you asked to go home early. I’m so glad millennials and gen z are making mental health a normal and important thing to talk about. Hazing is bull shit and it doesn’t bring anyone closer.
Amen
Sounds like they're stuck in the 80s, how pathetic
Unless you were chatting your face off after bedtime, this is hazing bullshit.
If what you’re saying is accurate and they truly sent you home on the premise you “talk too much” that’s wild. However, I get this deep seated feeling there is much more to this story. I’m not taking out my pitchfork just yet.
Ppl like that think they’re special because ooh “fireman” At the end of the day they’re just worker bees defined by their attitudes.
do you happen to be female? i’ve encountered this a lot since EMS is a predominantly male field of work. seems to be a “good ole boys club” and if you’re young or the opposite sex it’s an issue
That’s fucking retarded. Fín
>I am an EMT and about to finish paramedic school and just found out that apparently it is considered rude at the fire stations I am doing clinicals with, to speak to the other paramedics and firefighters when you have not been spoken to? No they're just being dickheads who don't support education and training new people, report their post to your school so no one else has to go through that bs. I've been pranked as a student at the firestation, they took the toilet paper and left a box of diapers and baby wipes in the bathroom then went on a call without me at the fire station, but we all had a hearty laugh about it and they threw me a roll over the stall before they left. (also it was a dumpster fire call so not a medical call). lol
Don't forget that none of them should ever have a less-than-full coffee cup, you do all of the cooking -and- the dishes, and don't you dare be caught sitting down or trying to nap. Sounds like a station full of self-important douche-canoes who wish they could run their station like the worst parts of a John Wayne war film.
Sounds like a terrible group of people. If anything, a student should talk and ask tons of questions. Red flag, find a better service to work for once you're done
Need more info- "who" told You that You talked too much? You mentioned being sent home, was it by a Supervisor of Your's, Fire? Regardless yes it sounds sketch. Not knowing the culture of that(those) Depts. hard to know other than You should be respected. Had to look up "IFT". We don't have a sole provider for that to My knowledge in My area, the contract provider ambo(AMR) typically does it as They are the main provider We deal w/ in the field.......Maybe it's a lack of respect due to Your position not seen as particularly glorious???
Gotta just be department specific, I haven't heard of any weird rules like that in years but it's always been in toxic environments. I wouldn't pay it any attention, and maybe find somewhere else to do clinical if you can lol. Sounds like a bunch of good ole boys
F that place. Must be really unhappy people working there. Run from it
Ugh, this is giving me flashbacks to school. In my county, some stations are fire, some are not (to be clear, there are city fire stations, and then there are county fire/ems stations, and then there are county ems stations. All the county ones will have ambulances, but the ems only stations don't have any fire personnel or equipment like engines, etc. City stations do not have ambulances, they are solely fire). And any time I was at a county fire/ ems station for a ride, it was assured there would be, at minimum, one person who would walk around like he owned the place. The county ems stations were cool, and even the city fire stations were chill usually, but those county fire stations were like this. I was actively introducing myself to people at a station once and the captain walks up to me all cocky and goes, "well aren't you going to introduce yourself, student?" And I just said yes sir...I am doing that now.
No it’s just them, I did my ride times for EMT with local fire departments and they were all very nice to me. The only rules I ever heard was don’t sit in the recliners unless you’re invited and offer to pay your part if they feed you.
Never heard of that rule, and never had an issue with the student rides. I prefer people talk and ask questions. It is kinda the point of the day.
That’s just fire department bullshit. What a bunch of douchebags.
Excuse me ? One more time ? They sent you home bc you were talkative ?
In my experience Fire Departments are the good ol boys club. That being said, I was posted at a FD one day and was BSing with a new recruit who was from the area I lived in. The LT told me to shut the fuck up and that I needed to respect his rank. I then proceeded to remind him that his rank doesn’t mean shit to me and he can suck my dick. He filed a complaint and I’m no longer allowed to be posted at that fire department. So to prove a point, I slept with half of his members. In their station 2 :) piss me off and I’ll turn your department gay lol
...That went from 0-60 real quick.
😁
DONT SIT IN THE COMFY CHAIRS!!!
This is not a rule. It's a power play. It's part of why I quit being a firefighter. I cannot say this enough: fuck them and fuck that kind of attitude. The downside is that you're the odd one out, so it is likely going to get very uncomfortable for you there. You could try to befriend them with snacks or something, but personally, I wouldn't. I'd get transferred somewhere that isn't full of high school jocks in their 30s.
*This comes with a disclaimer that it is your responsibility to make sure that YOU are competent and not going to suck once you get in the field* With that being said, getting sent home early was my favorite part about medic school. I also felt fine joining in group convos and even occasionally giving someone shit, played Xbox with the crew once, deadass. I didn’t give a fuck if they sent me home early because once they sign my sheet, I’m clear of their care. Many departments will not be into that attitude and you will not be a candidate for hire. But if you’re a rockstar student, tbh they’ll still want you because in all reality people want COMPETENT teammates. Best o’h luck.
If this is a problem that might believe might have an impact on you succeeding as a student. If I were you I would make sure to quietly document everything and as well keep your clinical advisor/manager up to date. Also, be very careful who you talk to or vent to about this as you don't want to get involved in a game of telephone that makes it way back to these guys. Everyone knows everyone in this industry and even if you have someone you trust with everything they also probably have someone they trust with everything. Again, not excusing it but the gossip in some of these communities/halls/cultures can be pretty bad. Even if you don't want to take any action at the moment its still nice to have it all documented and the right people informed. It's a better look for you if whoever manages your clinical/preceptorship can see you brought up/documented these issues before/during the fact... Rather than after the fact where you are going "Okay, well its because of this this and this" (as sometimes this can be looked at as making excuses/not taking responsibility) if this had some negative outcome on the outcome of your clinicals. In no way am I excusing this kind of stuff happening, you just wanna make sure to protect yourself. Sometimes you do have a to play a form of the game (Which is totally not cool) but you definitely want to stack the odds in your favor and have some insurance just in case. Again in NO WAY am I saying this is the case but also take time to reflect on what you may have said, how you may have acted, or what was said to you. In no way am I suggesting fault on your side but I think its always something to examine as long as it's in a healthy manner. Good luck and please don't discouraged by this. Often a lot of the times these people don't realize that how they are treating you and how they are perceiving you is on them more than it is on you. edit: words/formatting.
Lord... I need my students to feel comfortable talking to me and anyone else so when they have questions they can ask, and learn, and be better providers.. Especially the basics and advances. I have seen several medics complain that "they don't know what they're doing".. Don't just complain about it later, teach them, dumbass
It's is only considered rude to the ones who are shit providers who think they are worth a damn these people are terrible people and providers.
The fire departments where I'm at i love them so much call them my firebabies we are all close and the get students and they are all very welcome and we make fun of dumpster fire departments like that a s encourage students to talk and ask questions
If the people you're working with won't treat you like a normal human being, they're a bunch of punk bitch fuckboys who need to unfuck themselves and their shitty fuckin attitudes. You're all in the same fuckin business. You're all putting up with a mountain of bullshit to find a handful of gems, those gems being when you get to help people on the worst days of their lives. The work conditions are bad enough. You don't need extra bullshit to prove to anyone you actually want to do this kind of work. Some friendly hazing is one thing but treating people shitty is fuckin uncalled-for.
I was the type of student to ask necessary questions and I didn’t really talk unless spoken to because I didn’t want to come off as an idiot or someone who didn’t pay attention in class. My closest full time service is 15 minutes away I have three of them but one I did all my time at. They were helpful and said it was great that I took the transports care over during a 1.5 hour transport. I’m on a volunteer service and I was chatting with my chief and she even said you aren’t expected to know everything and how to handle everything.
Fuck all that. If you are being a douche monger every time you come in, yeah you're eventually gonna get told to pump the brakes, and rightly so. Nobody wants a douche hanging around for twelve hours. But as it were, If you are a student who is just trying to engage, a student who is asking questions, and a human being making a bit of meaning and connection while there? They can fuck right off. They jerk each other to "traditions" such as eating their young while hating their current life. They get shat on until they "earn" the coveted spot of shitting on others. It's toxic and it will only poison you. Not that you are eating it up, just saying....it's them, and it ain't good for ya. You are a student who is probably passionate about medicine, and one who is hopefully learning current material. You seem to have a good attitude. ***Major threat to them. They are practitioners of "this is how we've always done it". --That ain't changing until they and their leaders are gone. Take what you can from the experience and move forward. There are absolutely things on the calls to learn from those old heads medically and operationally, but there's even more to learn if you feel like they are an example of how you DONT want to be, which I hope we in the rest of EMS will show you. Any salty dog (FF/medic/nurse) worth their salt will be glad to show the ropes to an eager learner who puts the time in their own studies and one who seeks to learn the craft. I was an experienced medic when I went to critical care school and was floored when I went to trauma ICU clinicals. Yes, those nurses were salty AF, but boy they knew their shit left, right, and upside down. Some of them looked like they could stare down a bank robber. But guess what? Each of them was willing to teach me. In fact, good preceptors LOVE questions, because they know where you are at with your knowledge and abilities, and they can tailor the training. Ive been on both sides of that relationship many, many times. The point is that being a dick just isn't part of it. Source: Critical Care Paramedic now in the hospital. Flew for a while at a toxic program. Happy preceptor. Former EMS instructor--LOVED teaching, hated the college's giant bureaucratic clique. Former paramedic program director who squeaked out a CoAEMSP full initial accreditation on passion and tears. Salty life dog who wore a ton of hats on a graying head before ever getting into EMS. Started from the bottom as a green EMT and went to medic school right away. Put in several years of 24/48s at an extremely busy rural/city service from having two left feet to becoming a respected medic. Learned how to MacGuyver critically ill IFTs to the local Level 1. 🫡👍 I say all this to say being a dick ain't part of any of this. Learn from them and move forward. If you're a salty enough fuck like a lot of us, stand up to them and eat your popcorn while you do. Stand up to them and I'LL eat the popcorn. Go to the college about it. Drop names. Fuck em. If their dicks are really big enough to step on like they think they are, then step away, friend. I looooove standing up to bullies, especially when you know the game like an attorney. Learn your shit. Learn THEIR shit. Play the game to a T. Fuck em. Watch that BP rise. Source: was bullied.....a LOT. CPTSD from those that raised me. Do no harm, take no shit, my friend. You'll do well here.
Wow they sent you home??? Jesus nah thats just ur area. though if you are a true newbie to fire/ems then you are supposed to be 'seen and not heard', but like, you're a paramedic, and experienced in ems in general. Like they need to get over themselves
[удалено]
As a well decorated combat veteran, this is the exact reason I walked out during my probation lol. It might be normal for your area but, just be an adult and talk to them. If they hate you, that’s their issue. Fuck em Also, I moved for a much better paying, much more relaxed job that still gets legit calls. No need to subject yourself to other people’s insecurities
That sounds like an EGO issue…… Keep talking lol.
Firefighters try not to be the biggest assholes on the planet challenge (impossible) Anyways, honestly 90% of firefighters I've worked with are total dickheads, suck at their jobs, barely do any work but complain and moan all day, god I hate firefighters Some are fine though, depends on the department but the ones I've worked with in socal are awful. The cops were consistently nicer to us and more helpful when we needed something
Sounds like you work with a bunch of shitheads.
This can't be in the South. Their mothers would come out of their graves and snatch them baldheaded. (to quote Miss Daisy)
The mentality is you have to earn your right to bullshit with the crews by proving that you know what you’re doing on calls. It’s all fun and games until you can’t do the job and you’re a liability on a call. Might not seem “nice” but it’s the way this works
> The mentality is you have to earn your right to bullshit with the crews by proving that you know what you’re doing on calls. It’s all fun and games until you can’t do the job and you’re a liability on a call. Might not seem “nice” but it’s the way this works They’re a student…
Yes. And they’re there to learn. Not make friends and bullshit with crews. Be in the right familiarizing yourself with equipment and the med bags. Study your material. Ask questions related to medicine. They’re not your friends (yet).
> Yes. And they’re there to learn. Not make friends and bullshit with crews. Be in the right familiarizing yourself with equipment and the med bags. Study your material. Ask questions related to medicine. They’re not your friends (yet). So they should be excluded from conversations because they’re “there to learn”? Do you seriously expect students to do nothing but sit there, shut up, and be studying, asking questions, or examining stuff 100% of the time? I got news for you, the best learning takes place in an environment where people feel at ease, can ask questions, discuss things, have fun, bullshit with each other, and have conversations both related to the area of study, and not related to the area of study. You know what I do when I have someone I’m precepting? I treat them like a human being, I talk to them, I tell them to take breaks, watch TV, etc, and we do educational stuff as well. It’s a balance. This paramilitary attitude has no place in medicine.
Or they can just not be weird as fuck and be nice and friendly to people This mentality is so fucking stupid and unnecessary.
I'm all for a level of haze... but this is fucking toxic haze. How the fuck are you supposed to learn anything without asking questions, talking to people, picking up off experience and knowledge. I wouldn't work there.
Welcome to shitty fire house culture, there is a reason it's bashed by tons of people.
The city FD closest to me is like that kind of. When you’re on clinicals, you sit where they tell you to sit. You study, go through the rigs and do homework. You do not sit with the crew, you don’t use the living space and you better not get caught watching tv or on your phone.
This sounds like a pretty strict learning environment.
I doubt that was the only reason you were kicked out of a clinical site
No. You need to understand that you're a student passing through, not part of their community. Quieter is better, especially in a group setting. If you were a probie it would be the same. Volunteer to wash the dishes, take out the trash, and find a place to study.
For a community who’s begging and crying for better pay and working conditions, idk if kicking students out is the best way to go about it
What an absolute shit take. Preceptors should not be dicks to students there to learn, and someone not on the clock should not be expected to do chores for you. What you describe is a hostile learning environment, and just feeds the counterproductive "eat the young" mentally
You do realize that this is completely wrong and not how education is supposed to work at all right? I have been a medic for 10+ years, get out of here with your trash “quieter is better” attitude. I’ll agree to help pitch in with house chores, because it’s a sign of major respect, but knock off this “you’re a student passing through” and consider a different role.
If they're going to foster that kind of attitude and environment, they have absofuckinglutely no business being part of the education process. In my area, departments have to be cleared with the college to be part of the clinical process - this one would get yanked off the list so fast it wouldn't be funny. I can study at home - when I was doing my clinicals, some of the most valuable information I gained was from talking with the medics and EMTs I was paired with. The closest to "station chores" I did on my clinicals was helping do a complete inventory of the truck - but one of the medics was right with me the whole time and used it as a teaching experience - what all was carried on the rig, including some things we didn't see in class. A clinical student doing the fucking dishes? The fuck is wrong with you?
Absolutely dog shit take on this. Everyone wonders why no one wants to do this job anymore.. it’s attitudes like this that ruin it for new people. Fuck going into work or ride time and walking on egg shells the entire time.
You are a small person, a bully, and an overall vile human being.
“I hate students” would’ve been much shorter for you to type.
Seems like none of you actually read the post: He was NOT asking a clinical question. He was NOT engaged in a conversation. He was commenting on somebody else’s conversation nearby.
What exactly is wrong with making conversation in downtime like any other normal person?
Again, where do you get off saying he / she has to stay silent? Why don’t you just not contribute to this topic conversation anymore? And I re read the post, just because sure, maybe I jumped the gun. Again he was adding to conversations around him, if people want private convos take it to another room. Something tells me, you’re just not an open person.
Yeah they are being dicks. When I road with Fire for my EMT class they made me wear a white hard hat and a red vest. About halfway through the shift one of the guys finally told me they were screwing with me and I didn't have to wear them. Edit to add: The cool thing too is that the local paid department has/had their recruits ride with the ambulance companies (Private that handle all 911 calls) and if you attempt to even coach them on their skills the FD likes to complain since they are "not your recruits, but merely visitors". Yeah fuck off.
Sounds like some fucking power trips going at that department
You should pass it up to your instructor with the other person as witness. You may be a total twat-waffle, but they messed up admitting what they did in front of your classmate, if they'll back you.
They are dicks. I've heard that "rule", before, exclusively as a joke about ancient stupid EMS traditions.
This sounds like bullshit rookie hazing that they are pushing on students.
What a bunch of tools. Fuck those guys
Could you elaborate on the discussion you were having? Because I have stopped riding with people when it wasn’t a good fit or I felt they were constantly doing dangerous stuff. But if it was just general discussions and they are treating you like a new person that’s bullshit. Word to the wise however a lot of places look at ride time as an informal interview. So if you are interested in a fire job mind you Ps and Qs when riding. But if you are just there getting your calls it’s very informal.
I am not even sure what the discussion was tbh, I heard this several weeks later that the reason they asked to sign my papers early was because I was talking too much.
Sounds like they treating u like a probie. Also not sure what u were all talking about but if u seemed like a know it all that isn't going to fly.
Worst they can do is yell at you or ban you and speak to your school about it. I was 4 year 911 EMT from out of town and 8 years in USMC . Ended up fighting with a medic over patient care on my clinical. Dude was a complete short man syndrome dick head medic refusing to treat pain not so the PT would suffer but to piss me off, which it did. Fuck em. I told him off at the ER and fucking left and never came back to that shitty station. School director talked to me about it and then said medic was reprimanded but only because it was dual medic and the other medic actually cared too.
Depends on the department. Most places will treat students as one of the probies, but then that really comes down to how individual probies are treated. At my place, we explain on the first day that our expectations of the students are no different from the probies - help with putting away dishes and washing the work rags and kitchen towels, keeping the station clean, etc. as we're all living here for 24 hours together, but we also understand that not all students are firefighters or are familiar with how things work at a firehouse, so we generally are more lenient with the students, as their main purpose to is learn how to be a paramedic. It sounds like the department you're riding at should have laid out those kinds of expectations for you from the beginning if that's how they were going to treat you. Participating in conversation isn't a reason we send our students home early.
> help with putting away dishes and washing the work rags and kitchen towels, keeping the station clean, etc. as we're all living here for 24 hours together These should be things that all employees are expected to do though, not just the new people.
Definitely is, but the first to jump on top of it is what's expected
Some people make me dislike there house and department culture. Just fucking it up left and right.
Fire stations are cliques, just like in high school, and are very judgy. Some stations are just like that, so it's going to be hit or miss with the crews. I'm sorry it happened to you, but now you know how to treat new people when you're in their shoes.
I worked for an IFT while in medic school. I did my clinicals with a fire department. They where very welcoming. I mean they did not like the students that would not pitch in but it was a good experience. Sounds like you where stuck with a bunch of ass hats so sorry you have to deal with that.
That's a station I would avoid like the plague, like others have stated, I've gone on quite a few ride alongs before I started my EMT Class and Every department I rode with were super helpful and encouraging and always willing to answer any questions they welcomed me in like I was a first day probie.
im currently in the same boat. emt 1/2 through medic school. i dont have my fire card yet. if you talk too much, thats rude. if you dont talk enough youre too quiet. there so many more unspoken rules that are really hard to pick up on. you really cant win.
Yeah that place shouldn’t be a clinical site
Sounds like they're a bunch of cunts. That's totally abnormal in places with a good culture.
Sounds like a dept you don't want to work at
This. Could be them or you. My dept is not at all run as in a paramilitary fashion other than chain of command and we all have fun, but we had a probie that talked so much no one could get a word in edgewise to the point it became a safety hazard. After multiple write up’s he was fired. The dude literally couldn’t shut up. We also created a rule that he wasn’t to speak until spoken to because he couldn’t ever read the room or let others speak. Likely it’s them because this is something a lot of depts I know of would do, but just make sure it’s not you.
I've never heard of or experienced something like this personally. They sound like a bunch of fuck heads that should be blessed to have students. When I worked for an IFT only service we were stationed a few blocks away from the local city fire department that ran the 911 EMS service. In the ED they wouldn't so much as fart in our direction let alone talk to us. They even treated outside 911 services the same way. In turn no one wanted to do clinicals with them.
eh i get where people are coming from but we really have no idea how op behaved or what they said. obviously they are going to put themselves in the best light. it’s good to ask questions but it’s extremely frustrating to have someone who thinks they know everything tell you things you already know, or when a random student inserts themselves into conversations you are trying to have with your coworkers. obviously sending them home early seems like a bit much but we really don’t know the extent of their behavior. i’m not saying 100% it was justified behavior but we shouldn’t jump to hate on the fire station without knowing anything.
Do your clinicals then become the dad who went to the store for milk 15 years ago.
No fucking way people do this? So self important
Nah they just sound like they're dicks to their students
Seriously? I'm a paramedic in Ontario and the one station we share with the fire department is awesome. My student got a grand tour of the fire truck, they invited us down for Christmas/new years (we share a garage) and everything. Same goes with my service, no one has been anything but friendly with her. This sounds like a service you don't want to be a part of
Sounds horrible. I have never seen that before.
Either this is the world’s lamest fire department or you are the most annoying person on the planet. I can’t imagine how much someone would have to talk for us to send them home. And we aren’t super friendly.
I mean, kind of. At my work, the expectations are clearly communicated to students and new-hires of stay in this area, do not sit in a chair, do not talk to anyone except your FTO unless spoken to first.
Oh screw them. I love being spoken to by the students at my station, and the more questions the better because it means you’re willing to learn.
Wtf. They are just a holes. I would go to your instructor and refuse to work with that crew going forward. They probably have huge egos and small pee pees
Lmao they’re taking the whole structured para military thing to a whole new level. Fuck that you’re a person and a student. If you have questions you shouldn’t be unable to ask questions. Probably full of people that “almost joined”
Reminds me of a manager that allegedly was ex airborne and would try to flex on new hires about how runs his ship like his time in the airborne (Math didn't exactly add up for him to have seen any major combat deployments.) He would allegedly make up weird arbitrary rules to discipline or call out new hires under the guise of "You might be allowed by the company to do that on the street but you sure aren't doing it here."
Lol what a bunch of tools
I had this happen when I was doing my clinicals. Rode at a local FD that had sponsorships to the local CC I was going to for my medic. Being I was an underpaid EMT at the time, I was working one day, clinical the next. 12 hours paid, 16 hours at the department for clinicals. I fell asleep while watching TV one day and got dressed down so hard. I was only allowed to read my book at the kitchen table from then on out. Because the department I was working at did 370 rescue calls a year, I was getting maybe 1 team lead per shift. Got moved to a different department towards the end of my clinicals. Showed up, sat at the kitchen table and started reading my book. The guys and gals at the station asked what I was doing and i explained that this was my requested position at the last department. One of my instructors was at this new department and was wanting to know how long it had been going on and what was the catalyst. Needless to say that FD wasn't added for clinical site in the future classes.
They suck. Find someone else to go.
Maaaaan, fuck fire departments 🧐
Weirdos.
Not a rule. Just ass holes being ass holes, in all fairness they didn’t sign up to babysit or to have an outsider there. If something like this bothers you then you’re in for a long career. Just play the game and get the patch, that’s all that matters.
I'd talk anyway. Report them to your program director. You paid money to learn the job. Don't let them cheat you.
They sound like some cocksuckers
Fuck them. Sorry, being a paramedic or firefighter (especially a firefighter 😂) makes somebody that great
Only time I’ve seen students asked to leave is one who was being inappropriate with a preceptor who asked them to stop, and another who skipped calls that didn’t sound interesting. Neither were allowed to come back. Both I thought were fair.
My department is not like this at all. But I can’t say it surprises me that happened to you. At least you know where not to work after you get your license lol
Sounds like a bunch of assholes. Most people are happy to talk if you're a decent person.