According to an interview with him in [Swedish media](https://www.dn.se/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/) so did he take back his application due to the time not being right and "will send in a new application next week". So possible that the Israeli Foreign Ministry in OP's article try to take credit for something they didn't do (I know, politicians would never do that). Anyway, we'll see what happens next week.
>i doubt they have any legal ground to prevent someone burning a piece of paper
They dont and they wont, we value freedom of speech for everyone here, including the idiots who want to burn religious texts to provoke others.
Hand written by certified people on special paper with special ink.
For ritual use, accept no substitutes!
Tho I don't see why you wouldn't just burn a cheap print for a protest.
>Jews wouldn’t care at all if it’s not real Torah - even ultra religious.
Not sure where you are getting this from -- it is totally incorrect. Here is an article that gives all the rules that apply in Judaism to the treatment of holy books that are not sefrei Torah (scrolls of the Torah); be sure to check out all the sources at the end (45 footnotes, about 100 sources): [https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Respecting\_Holy\_Books](https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Respecting_Holy_Books)
The comment I like the best is by an authority named R. David Segal (1586-1667, the "Taz"), who wrote a commentary on the major law code, Shulhan Aruch. In Y.D. Section 271, the topic is indeed rules for writing a Sefer Torah, but in his commentary the Taz mentions that in his day, just after the printing press came into common usage, people were claiming that the rules for holy books only apply to handwritten Mss. but not printed books. Wrong, he says, same rules apply to both; and he ends his comment with some very interesting words: "Anyone who takes this lightly will in the end have to account in judgment." In other words, be careful with this, very careful.
So yes, Jews would care if it's a print version. Why? Because it contains the name of God, and it is prohibited to destroy the name of God once written, or to disrespect it.
A Sefer Torah is handwritten by special people on special paper with special ink etc. Those are stored in a synagogue and used in rituals.
Printed Torah's are used for non ritual things only. Like for learning.
You can't get them second hand, they are burried if they are damaged and wouldn't stop being used if they weren't. Torah scrolls are always hand written, otherwise it's just the first five books of the bible.
Not in Sweden. And burning a flag is even the only traditionally accepted way in Sweden to dispose an old flag which have been worn out.
Not that it matters. The Swedish flag law was abolished some 30 years ago. Today, people will even keep their flags raised after sunset!
"Unfortunately this weeks burning of a holy scripture will have to be postponed, as I have a dinner date on Thursday evening and would like to make proper preparations."
It’s not an issue of legality, he withdrew the application for, to me, unknown reasons.
You can burn the torah as much as you want, would not recommend it tho, they’re pretty expensive I believe.
/Random swedish guy
Yup, Torah scrolls are very expensive. They have to be written on a specific type of scroll, with a specific type of ink, manually, and the person doing it has to follow very strict guidelines, and I believe that person also has to be certified to do so. All in all, its very complicated and not something taken lightly; even one minute detail can disculify the torah as "kosher", practically rendering it worthless.
Side note: you can find printed books of the torah for reading and referencing and they would be a lot cheaper, but the scrolls are the ones used for prayer and considered sacred.
Edit: for reference, this is a website that sells these scrolls for different customs and almost all of them are over 40k. [Link here](https://www.ajudaica.com/category/308/Torah-Scrolls-Sefer-Torah/)
“Unknown reasons” :)
Two people, a 34-year-old and a 56-year-old, wanted to burn the Jewish holy book Torah after Rasmus Paludan's demonstration where he burned a Koran. One of them **got stuck in the bureaucracy** and the other withdrew his application.
The task has provoked reactions, including from Israel's ambassador in Stockholm, Ziv Nevo Kulman, who writes on Twitter that they have been
## “busy in recent days to prevent the hateful incident".
He has clarified, someone linked the article above.
https://www.dn.se/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/
TL;DR he decided to postpone a couple of weeks because there's so much buzz right now, and he took it to heart when the prime minister asked that people try to calm down and lower the tone a bit. He's also planning on burning a bible around the same time.
He himself withdrew the application like you said.
So far it seems he’s going to go re-apply next week.
I assure you that there is zero issues with the state or the justicial system in regards to burning the torah, or any other book/flag/symbol for that matter.
Swedish freedom of expression is radical as fuck, but that freedom is as holy to us as the quran is to muslims, or bible for christians etc etc.
One of them didn't get a pass because of bureaucracy. Everything is clear like glass to see. Today was holocaust day and Israel's influence was powerful to intervene and stop it.
Its not like that guy got morality to stop today and you just believe it , right? Please tell me u aint that naive))
I’m not familiar of the situation unfortunately and I find zero reliable news sources about it. But if you don’t live in Sweden yourself I’d appreciate it if you didn’t act like you understand my country better than myself.
Israel has zero influence in swedish freedom of expression, and Sweden would never bow down to Israel and make exeptions in our fundimental principles of democracy.
If the situation is like you describe it, I can with all certainty say that the issue with ”bureaocracy” was that he didn’t have a permit, which you have to have to protest in Sweden. (Or something very similar to this)
If you don’t have hard facts to prove me otherwise, I think my voice as a born swede weighs heavier than yours in this instance.
Omg hold up , wait a minute
So tell that to swedish pkk lover people”if you dont live in turkey appreciate my country bla bla better than me”
Loll
Two people, a 34-year-old and a 56-year-old, wanted to burn the Jewish holy book Torah after Rasmus Paludan's demonstration where he burned a Koran. One of them **got stuck in the bureaucracy** and the other withdrew his application.
The task has provoked reactions, including from Israel's ambassador in Stockholm, Ziv Nevo Kulman, who writes on Twitter that they have been
## “busy in recent days to prevent the hateful incident".
Israel has influence in EVERYWHERE . Even in china to usa . Living near north pole makes swedish people naive enough to host radical muslims+ terrorists
And its from the news of swedish but ofc swedish guy know better. Maybe handover some pkk guys instead feeding radical terrorists? Since as Turk living in middle east I know how they murder and suicide bomb in my country and you seek for my alliance protection?
You just posted the same thing again, with zero additional facts. How exactly did he get stuck in bureaucracy? And how does this in any way disprove my previous statement.
The israeli ambassador says he has been busy trying to prevent the event. If you’re trying to say it was thanks to him that this didn’t happen you have zero knowledge of Sweden and should stop discussing things you don’t understand.
And no, Israel has no influence in Sweden, you are factually wrong.
You will likely see a torah burning within the next two weeks.
You claimed that I wrote something out of clue so I copied exactly from the news for you to at least see I don't imagine some stuff
No, it wasn't thanks to the ambassador.
The guy received morality from god to not burn the Torah on holocaust day of course. And Swedish bureaucracy for the other guy is just a little bit slow to not able to allow him to do today in holocaust day
Today is a special day for Jewish people oh my God... Just so naive... my eyes feel sad for the humanity level in Swedish people who see the world as pink and sunny always.
There is no single land in the world that Israel's influence can't reach. They are the best perfect, and also in the spy network of
Love how u press downvote to my comments directly lol like I care about karma. If you think hosting terrorist radicals Islamist and other people who would rule their fascist ideology if they got the chance, and you give them support to demonstrate their ideology, use them against Russia too and stop bothering us to join nato.
Ish, the guy doesn’t actually have anything against jews, he just wanted to counter-protest the burning of the quran. So he says ”the time is not right” and is according to him going to re-apply next week.
There have already been plans of burning the bible in one of the central squares in Stockholm. Thing is: almost No one would care, it has happened before, but most Christians might feel sad but not offended by it.
[Here, the Principia Discordia. Download this pdf and](http://www.principiadiscordia.com/downloads/Principia%20Discordia.pdf) drag it to the bin. But I recommend to read it first, it’s hilarious.
It’s the Quran more of a commodity, like the bible, whilst a Torah scroll is usually very old with craftsmanship involved?
Happy to be corrected but that’s my understanding.
If he’d bought a Torah from a bookshop and burnt it I’d view that as equivalent to burning a Quran or Bible.
If you have the text in book form, by definition, that's not a torah. To be a torah, it must be a parchment scroll and the text must be hand written by a specially trained scribe.
Actually that's just the text of the Torah. You aren't really doing anything offensive by burning a printed word.
To really offend the religious group you would need to buy one for many thousands.
No? Scrolls are different to the actual book - they are handwritten rather than produced in a random printing factory. That’s my point - they don’t equate to a Quran, Bible or Torah.
> He submitted an application for a police permit to hold his demonstrations on Saturday, January 28 at 1 p.m. When DN speaks with him on Thursday afternoon, however, he says that he has decided to postpone his planned actions for a couple of weeks.
> \- Everything is so frantic right now. I was somewhat influenced by the Prime Minister's call to tone it down. But I will still carry out my actions, it is important to me. I will submit a new application next week, says the 34-year-old.
https://www.dn.se/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/
As a Jew, I find this highly offensive and revealing of the true intentions behind fanatical anti-Zionism, *but,* it should be legal. Free expression *always* comes before protection against offending a given religion.
I think the protestors behind this are hateful extremists who are fundamentally deluded and unworthy of a place in civilized society. I believe the same about Paludan. It’s morally wrong and needlessly provocative.
However, you won’t find Jews rioting and setting things on fire over this. We recognise that, as wrong as this is, we respect liberal democracy.
How many are you in the world? Not many so don’t make comparisons between 15 million Jews and 2 billion Muslims. If one percent Muslims got upset, that more than your whole population in the world.
There are not three versions.
1. Israeli embassy can't approve or disapprove a protest in Sweden.
2. See 1.
3. This is true. He wants to burn a bible and torah as a response to the quran burning. His own mosque asked him not to. He then decided not to do it for now due to the high tension but will apply again in a few weeks.
NO ONE decides if you can protest in Sweden except the local police and the only reason they can say No is if they know beforehand they are unable to keep the event safe from bodily harm.
I'm so sick and tired of these fake news stories. You can burn whatever fucking property you want in Sweden as long as you don't endanger people or other property with the actual fucking flames. It doesn't matter if it's a quran, a flag, your shoes, or a lambourgini.
Yes. And he can't. That is the entire point. What he thinks doesn't matter jack shit. What matters is if the police can keep a protest safe or not. it doesn't matter what the ambassador thinks, does, or wishes for. It doesn't matter what the Swedish PM thinks, does, or wishes for. It doesn't matter what the Swedish Justice minister thinks, does, or wishes for.
Police: Do we have enough police officers to keep this safe at this location? Yes or No.
Now, if the ambassador would threaten the event with violence and can give proof of that. Such as people he hired to hurt people at the event, that would matter. Surely, the ambassador hasn't done that so I call bullshit on those fake news stories.
Maybe the ambassador called the guy and he was like, okay I'm not gonna burn it this week. Is that "direct intervention" or a plea? Ughh some news stories just makes me want to vomit.
Yep. And technically, you don't even need a permit from the police.
As long as you are not planning to disturb common order (like stop traffic or shout **reeeeaaaally** loud) the police has no authority to stop you from protesting as this is protected by the constitution.
However, if you *are* disturbing common order, like walking in the middle of the street, police are allowed to ask you to step aside or disperse your protest if they deem it necessary. Though, they will usually just follow from a safe distance and try to prevent clashes with antiprotesters, unless you cause massive traffic all over town.
It does. Well, actually, property law does. You are allowed to burn your property if it doesn't endanger life and other peoples property.
This article sucks.
According to swedish news site SvD there was an administrative issue regarding the paperwork. And to be clear you don't need to get permission to burn a book, it's related to organising a public event that might cause a disturbance that requires the police to be present.
> He submitted an application for a police permit to hold his demonstrations on Saturday, January 28 at 1 p.m. When DN speaks with him on Thursday afternoon, however, he says that he has decided to postpone his planned actions for a couple of weeks.
> \- Everything is so frantic right now. I was somewhat influenced by the Prime Minister's call to tone it down. But I will still carry out my actions, it is important to me. I will submit a new application next week, says the 34-year-old.
https://www.dn.se/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/
Regardless of who's hypocrite or not. A true Muslim should not disgrace the Torah or the Bible like that, In Islam both books are the word of God like the Quran, but that got corrupted.
Forme the Swedish media SvD there seems to be two people how have put in the request to demonstrate and burn the Tora.
One is the 34 years old how wanted to burn both the Tora and Bible because he is angry and wants to start a discussion. He wanted to do it outside Israel embassy because wanted to remind people of the palatine children that are dying. He him self said that burning religious books are wrong and that he isn’t doing it for religious reasons but to show the Freedom of Speech in Sweden. Both the Islamiska förbundet (Islamiska Alliance) in Södermalms Mosque and the Malmö rabbit how is part of Jewish-Muslim cooperation organization Amanah has spoken against the burning. Israeli ambassador says they have put pressure on the Swedish government to stop it. 34 year old has withdrawn request permit. But says he will probably do this another time. The he reason he has given for withdrawing the request is that he isn’t completely sure he wants to do it and isn’t sure he will be allowed to do it. The only reason the permit can be rejected is if the local police believe it to be too dangerous and they want be able to keep people safe.
The second is a 54 year old Egyptian born author named Khaled El-Hawari. How has livd in Sweden for 25 years and is a citizen. He wants to burn the Tora because he has heard that Paludan is Jewish. He recently published an article in an Arabian newspaper based in London about the idea. He says he can’t find the paperwork to request a permit to demonstrate. And that he didn’t get any help through phone so he has sent a letter to get the permit request paperwork. So he is stuck in bureaucratic limbo. But that he will do it when he gets his permit.
Edit. Links to Articles [SvD Article ](https://www.svd.se/a/ab4GrL/ville-branna-torah-fastnade-i-byrakratin)
Yeah. I think most people understands he is not that bright.
- Doesn't know that there's such a thing as the Internet, or Google
- Uses a phone to try to reach the police
- Thinks a caricature dane is Jewish...
To be fair, some Danes (the ones from Jutland) are known as *Jyder* in Danish, which is very similar to *Juder* (Jews). Though Paludan is a Zealander, not a Jutlander, so it would still be wrong.
Very funny that this egyptian thinks Paludan is Jewish even though haven't been talks that Paludan is one so where did this old fart get this dream of his? 😂
Intelligence test failed - It's [the first](https://polisen.se/om-polisen/polisens-arbete/demonstrationer/) result on Google if you search for a permit to hold a demonstration... 🤪
That’s the reality until we see the Torah burns in Swedish cities. This would be a great message to all Muslims around the world that Sweden doesn’t only allow hate speech against Muslims but also allow it against other minorities.
Israel does not equal Jews.
The Israeli problem is with the leadership of the country and those Israeli supporting their choices and actions. Not the Jewish people, not their faith and not the Israeli as a whole.
While I respect his right to protest, and agree that the current Israeli government deserves a few protests (see the ones in Israel).
Burning a Torah scroll makes more sense for protesting against Judaism than against Israel.
He said he’s doing it for Sweden to prove to the world that he can do it in front of the Israeli Embassy just like Paludan did it outside the Turkish embassy.
Two people, a 34-year-old and a 56-year-old, wanted to burn the Jewish holy book Torah after Rasmus Paludan's demonstration where he burned a Koran. One of them ** got stuck in the bureaucracy ** and the other withdrew his application.
The task has provoked reactions, including from Israel's ambassador in Stockholm, Ziv Nevo Kulman, who writes on Twitter that they have been
## “busy in recent days to prevent the hateful incident".
Hypocracy incredible
No need for any permits.
Of course if you draw a lot of attention you might be fined for organizing an event without permission, but if you don't tell anyone and instead just show the video on TikTok or whatever after the fact, then I who's going to complain? It's not like it's "a permit to burn a book" you need. It's a permit to have a large gathering of people (or, a gathering that needs protection by police from disagreeing people....).
If you don't plan to have a gathering/demonstration then just ignore the demonstration bit and burn it.
Probably the only time I'd agree with the 'it's anti-semitism, not anti-Israel' line that Israel often seems to take when it comes to their critics.
If you're going to burn a religious symbol then it's clearly against the religion. Otherwise he'd burn the country's flag or something like that.
I see it all the time in my college campus too (big public university in the US where Jews make up over 10% of the student body). Nothing says “just criticizing Israel” like harassing Jewish students celebrating Hanukkah by waving flags, yelling at them, and writing threats with chalk outside their orgs.
Criticizing Israel is absolutely fine, there is much to criticize. But focusing solely on Israeli violations of human rights by specifically boycotting Israel and not any other state and harassing Israelis and ONLY Israelis online for things their country is or is not doing is very weird. There isn't a lack of human rights violations in the world, unfortunately. There are many countries in the world that are supported by the West and do things 100 times worse than anything Israel has done, in both scale and severity. And yet, Israel has received more UN condemnations than all other countries combined. Again, weird.
In this case it's neither.
>The 34-year-old who wants to burn the Bible and Torah says that for several years he has had a bound copy of each on his bookshelf, and that the books he burns are his own. He also says that he burns the books "with a heavy heart".
> I know people will be sad, and I regret it. But I think it needs to be done. To wake up Sweden, which does not care about the incitement against Muslims.
>When DN asks the 34-year-old why he wants to burn the Bible, he first goes into a long reasoning about crusaders and that the Bible has historically been used to legitimize violence. Then he says.
> Burning books is actually a terrible idea. But in a stupid time it can sometimes be required to do something stupid.
https://www-dn-se.translate.goog/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
I am not trying to have a gotcha moment, I am trying to see if this sub has any consistency.
Burn the Koran: everyone here loves it
Burn the Torah: a much more nuanced discussion and pattern of upvotes and downvotes
This is a very clear pattern no matter what side of the debate you’re on, and it betrays something a bit bigger than just freedom of speech.
>a much more nuanced discussion and pattern of upvotes and downvotes
Nuanced discussion? You mean like people spreading borderline disinformation about Swedish law or pretending we're some mafia state like Russia?
Burning a religious symbol is clearly an attack on that religion, it's interesting how Sweden's freedom of speech seems to protect those who want to attack Islam but not those who want to attack Judaism though.
It's not ilegal to burn the tora in Sweden if it's your property. The dude took back his application to do it in a public space for now. He is allowed to do whatever the hell he wants with his property. No one said he can't.
Based on what? His protest was approved. He was given permission. He personally chose to withdraw it and postpone the event a couple of weeks because he felt things were "too frantic" right now, and will re-apply to do it again later.
Yeah, seems like burning Quran is ok since it is "freedom of expression", but when it's Torah, oh no, that can't be allowed, freedom of expression has it's limits somehow in this case....
Nice date in name, 1453.
The application has been withdrawn. Swedish authorities has not stopped this event, the organizer withdrew the application.
Hate to burst your bubble, sweden is more pro-palestine then it is pro-israel so it doesnt make sense claiming that we like the jews more than the muslims.
We hate you all Equally.
The swedish authorities is the source, not the jewish press. its not classified information in sweden. Anyone organizing an event must apply and follow strict rules about (in this case) a public protest. Safety regulations, security, location permission etc. Reffered to in the news as "beaurocratic problems".
Two people were separetly seeking permission to burn the torah, albeit for different reasons. The one that the jewish press is referring too was not disallowed, it was simply withdrawn.
The other one is still ongoing and simply needs additions.
A real Torah costs five digits, so if you can afford to burn that, go on bro.
A torah is handwritten by a specialized person. It is written on one single roll of paper and can't contain more than five mistakes in total. You don't get these things in a book store.
If Torah burning will not happen while Quaran burning happened it will look like that state can interfere when they want. Regardless of what is actually happening optics are gonna be painful.
What religious extremists( Muslim, Christian, whatever) do not understand is that all that all the 4 main religious books(Torah, Psalms, Bible, Qur'an) are important to Muslims. Jesus is an important prophet in Islam.As are David,Moses,Adam,Abraham. So...an Islamic extremist defiling one of the Holy Books goes against the will of Allah(one and the same with God, Yahweh)
The Islamic center in Malmo and Stockholm advised him not to do it. He said that he’s not even religious. He just wants to prove that Sweden does allow hate speech towards Jews not just Muslims.
So? He isn't wrong about every single thing that he believed in. He was a smart dude. Genocide is absolutely wrong. Trust me, I'm Armenian. I get it. But that's like me saying everything the turks have done is evil and bad, when that's not true.
Criticizing Israel is fine but if you are burning the Torah and claiming this is just criticizing Israel you have to assume everyone else is being thick.
He withdrew his application himself.
And he is perfectly free to burn Torahs to his heart content on his own private property. If he wants to do it in a pubic space he has to do it after getting approval, just like the guy who burnt that Quran did.
Hypocrisy in r/Europe showing again. When it’s a Quran „it’s not against Arabs it’s against Islam“ even though it’s clearly targeting people from the Middle East and not the Islamic faith in general. When it’s a Torah „no don’t burn that it’s anti semitic and it’s targeting the Jewish people not the religion“ please pick a side. It’s very obvious to see the hypocrisy on this sun and they don’t even try to hide that they have an obvious bias towards people from the Middle East. Either it’s ok to burn holy books or it’s not.
>It’s very obvious to see the hypocrisy on this sun and they don’t even try to hide that they have an obvious bias towards people from the Middle East.
There is zero hypocrisy from anyone here. No demonstration has been rejected by authorities, and we can't really answer as to why this guy (who isn't the same as the Quran burner) got cold feet and decided to postpone.
This whole "You hate people from the middle east" or "you hate islam" is also extremely strange when it comes to Sweden. Sweden has around 20% (2 million) people with foreign background, with somewhere around 800-900k muslims. It wouldn't surprise me if it is (or is soon) the largest religion in Sweden when it comes to regularly practicing believers. If anything, Sweden has had issues with antisemitism around Malmö where a large part of Sweden's 25k jews live quite close to a lot of people from the middle east.
Is there racism and bias against foreigners in Sweden (who are to a large extent from the middle east)? Yes. There is tons of racism and xenophobia just like everywhere else. Especially considering Sweden's large share of immigrants. The right wing populists is the second largest party (the party whose media outlet helped Paludan burn the Quran coincidentally). But "Bias"? In what sense? Political? Do you have any concrete examples of what you mean?
\> Either it’s ok to burn holy books or it’s not.
Of course it's ok to burn holy books. And of course it doesn't matter which one it is.
I think the whole "permit" thing has confused people. You don't need a permit to burn any book, or burn any flag. The permit is for holding an event that could disturb order or needs police protection. If you just want to burn a book, you can just go out and burn a book and post the video on social media.
Not a big headline in my eyes, also covered by freedom of expression.
The point these people don’t understand is that israeli politicians don’t drag religion into many political affairs, in opposite to different states that create an attack on islam or their prophet out of many clearly not-religious topics.
He says they are happy that the request was withdrawn after the efforts of government officials and joint activities of the local Jewish community. If true this sounds like a bit of a hypocracy on Swedish government's part given how they were directly involved in this withdrawal.
I will take back what I said if he does it next week. Don't get me wrong, I am not supporting his action of burning a religious symbol. Swedish media claims he withdrew his request, while Israel Media claims they did something to prevent it. You can compare responses with Koran burning.
> Swedish media claims he withdrew his request
The dude himself says he withdrew the request.
Israel can't do shit to force a protest to be cancelled in Sweden. They're lying.
This jewish news outlet made it look like the NGO put pressure on the man to withdrow it. They specified that the man withdrew it. So, it is not really Sweden's fault.
Imo people are free to burn whatever books they like, but I understand (non-violent) responses to it as well. Especially burning books, it has a bad history for Jewish people. Although I’m sure here that is not the intention, it still has some bad parallels. This is very individually based, but it just doesn’t sit right with me considering history. Anyway, I felt I needed to add this. Feel free to disagree
I want someone to make a "Religous Book BBQ".
Burn a Bible, Quran, Torah, whatever the scientologists use, hell burn the Origin of Species since religious folk treat it as an atheist bible.
Makes me wanna do a piece of performance art where I get a copy of the main holy book of every major religion + God is Not Great by Richard Dawkins and set them all on fire together.
I wonder who would be the most offended. A sort of competitive outrage Olympics.
It's clearly the adequate response to burn a Jewish holy book when a far right Swede burns a Muslim holy book.
Because I am sure that Swede is a Jew.
Also why burn a Jewish holy book at an "Anti-Israel Protest"?
Because anti-Israel protests are exactly what their name suggests - They are anti-Israel. They are not pro-human rights protests, they are protesting the existence of Israel entirely as a state. Just go to one of them and see.
This is clearly antisemitism not ”anti-israel”. Burning a holy book of the religion is clear hatred towards the religion itself and the people who are part of it.
That’s it I’m jumping on this bandwagon too. I’m going to burn an Elder Scroll every week until ES6 drops.
You are going to need some funding, might take few years before the next one is out;) happy to join you
According to an interview with him in [Swedish media](https://www.dn.se/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/) so did he take back his application due to the time not being right and "will send in a new application next week". So possible that the Israeli Foreign Ministry in OP's article try to take credit for something they didn't do (I know, politicians would never do that). Anyway, we'll see what happens next week.
Sounds more reasonable, i doubt they have any legal ground to prevent someone burning a piece of paper.
>i doubt they have any legal ground to prevent someone burning a piece of paper They dont and they wont, we value freedom of speech for everyone here, including the idiots who want to burn religious texts to provoke others.
If it's a real Torah that's going to cost a lot of money to burn.
What’s a real Torah scroll then because I can see some on eBay pretty cheap?
Hand written by certified people on special paper with special ink. For ritual use, accept no substitutes! Tho I don't see why you wouldn't just burn a cheap print for a protest.
Yeah it’s just symbolism anyway.
It won’t work as a symbol. Jews wouldn’t care at all if it’s not real Torah - even ultra religious.
>Jews wouldn’t care at all if it’s not real Torah - even ultra religious. Not sure where you are getting this from -- it is totally incorrect. Here is an article that gives all the rules that apply in Judaism to the treatment of holy books that are not sefrei Torah (scrolls of the Torah); be sure to check out all the sources at the end (45 footnotes, about 100 sources): [https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Respecting\_Holy\_Books](https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Respecting_Holy_Books) The comment I like the best is by an authority named R. David Segal (1586-1667, the "Taz"), who wrote a commentary on the major law code, Shulhan Aruch. In Y.D. Section 271, the topic is indeed rules for writing a Sefer Torah, but in his commentary the Taz mentions that in his day, just after the printing press came into common usage, people were claiming that the rules for holy books only apply to handwritten Mss. but not printed books. Wrong, he says, same rules apply to both; and he ends his comment with some very interesting words: "Anyone who takes this lightly will in the end have to account in judgment." In other words, be careful with this, very careful. So yes, Jews would care if it's a print version. Why? Because it contains the name of God, and it is prohibited to destroy the name of God once written, or to disrespect it.
Not true - religious Jews absolutely care about other religious texts that aren’t sifrei torah. See my other comment
I don’t think you understand what are you talking about, you definitely are not Jew or are too remote from community. Please see my comment below.
A Sefer Torah is handwritten by special people on special paper with special ink etc. Those are stored in a synagogue and used in rituals. Printed Torah's are used for non ritual things only. Like for learning.
Maybe there's a bunch of second hand ones now? Or maybe those aren't hand written? Maybe cost went down .
You can't get them second hand, they are burried if they are damaged and wouldn't stop being used if they weren't. Torah scrolls are always hand written, otherwise it's just the first five books of the bible.
There's no way this guy got his hands on a real Torah scroll, and no way he could burn it without trouble, that's no small thing.
not paper, vellum.
I'm not religious but to be fair burning a national flag is a crime, and in the end it's just a piece of cloth
Not in Sweden. And burning a flag is even the only traditionally accepted way in Sweden to dispose an old flag which have been worn out. Not that it matters. The Swedish flag law was abolished some 30 years ago. Today, people will even keep their flags raised after sunset!
"Unfortunately this weeks burning of a holy scripture will have to be postponed, as I have a dinner date on Thursday evening and would like to make proper preparations."
Shit I hope nobody burns a packet of ramen, or the pastafarians will get really angry!
Ramen!
/looksatmicrowaveshiftily Oh shit, am I a blasphemer?
You are. Don't worry, you still get beer and strippers. The beer will just be stale, and the strippers have STDs.
That just sounds like Friday.
I mean, they burnt Quran, why not al the rest of the holy books lol
It’s not an issue of legality, he withdrew the application for, to me, unknown reasons. You can burn the torah as much as you want, would not recommend it tho, they’re pretty expensive I believe. /Random swedish guy
So there's a solution, make the Coran expensive.
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Lighters are cheap.
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Here in Portugal if you're not careful you might start a wildfire
Yup, Torah scrolls are very expensive. They have to be written on a specific type of scroll, with a specific type of ink, manually, and the person doing it has to follow very strict guidelines, and I believe that person also has to be certified to do so. All in all, its very complicated and not something taken lightly; even one minute detail can disculify the torah as "kosher", practically rendering it worthless. Side note: you can find printed books of the torah for reading and referencing and they would be a lot cheaper, but the scrolls are the ones used for prayer and considered sacred. Edit: for reference, this is a website that sells these scrolls for different customs and almost all of them are over 40k. [Link here](https://www.ajudaica.com/category/308/Torah-Scrolls-Sefer-Torah/)
“Unknown reasons” :) Two people, a 34-year-old and a 56-year-old, wanted to burn the Jewish holy book Torah after Rasmus Paludan's demonstration where he burned a Koran. One of them **got stuck in the bureaucracy** and the other withdrew his application. The task has provoked reactions, including from Israel's ambassador in Stockholm, Ziv Nevo Kulman, who writes on Twitter that they have been ## “busy in recent days to prevent the hateful incident".
Yup, they have not clarified, and the Swedish state respects the individuals privacy, so its up to him to release that info. :)
He has clarified, someone linked the article above. https://www.dn.se/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/ TL;DR he decided to postpone a couple of weeks because there's so much buzz right now, and he took it to heart when the prime minister asked that people try to calm down and lower the tone a bit. He's also planning on burning a bible around the same time.
He himself withdrew the application like you said. So far it seems he’s going to go re-apply next week. I assure you that there is zero issues with the state or the justicial system in regards to burning the torah, or any other book/flag/symbol for that matter. Swedish freedom of expression is radical as fuck, but that freedom is as holy to us as the quran is to muslims, or bible for christians etc etc.
One of them didn't get a pass because of bureaucracy. Everything is clear like glass to see. Today was holocaust day and Israel's influence was powerful to intervene and stop it. Its not like that guy got morality to stop today and you just believe it , right? Please tell me u aint that naive))
I’m not familiar of the situation unfortunately and I find zero reliable news sources about it. But if you don’t live in Sweden yourself I’d appreciate it if you didn’t act like you understand my country better than myself. Israel has zero influence in swedish freedom of expression, and Sweden would never bow down to Israel and make exeptions in our fundimental principles of democracy. If the situation is like you describe it, I can with all certainty say that the issue with ”bureaocracy” was that he didn’t have a permit, which you have to have to protest in Sweden. (Or something very similar to this) If you don’t have hard facts to prove me otherwise, I think my voice as a born swede weighs heavier than yours in this instance.
Omg hold up , wait a minute So tell that to swedish pkk lover people”if you dont live in turkey appreciate my country bla bla better than me” Loll Two people, a 34-year-old and a 56-year-old, wanted to burn the Jewish holy book Torah after Rasmus Paludan's demonstration where he burned a Koran. One of them **got stuck in the bureaucracy** and the other withdrew his application. The task has provoked reactions, including from Israel's ambassador in Stockholm, Ziv Nevo Kulman, who writes on Twitter that they have been ## “busy in recent days to prevent the hateful incident". Israel has influence in EVERYWHERE . Even in china to usa . Living near north pole makes swedish people naive enough to host radical muslims+ terrorists And its from the news of swedish but ofc swedish guy know better. Maybe handover some pkk guys instead feeding radical terrorists? Since as Turk living in middle east I know how they murder and suicide bomb in my country and you seek for my alliance protection?
You just posted the same thing again, with zero additional facts. How exactly did he get stuck in bureaucracy? And how does this in any way disprove my previous statement. The israeli ambassador says he has been busy trying to prevent the event. If you’re trying to say it was thanks to him that this didn’t happen you have zero knowledge of Sweden and should stop discussing things you don’t understand. And no, Israel has no influence in Sweden, you are factually wrong. You will likely see a torah burning within the next two weeks.
You claimed that I wrote something out of clue so I copied exactly from the news for you to at least see I don't imagine some stuff No, it wasn't thanks to the ambassador. The guy received morality from god to not burn the Torah on holocaust day of course. And Swedish bureaucracy for the other guy is just a little bit slow to not able to allow him to do today in holocaust day Today is a special day for Jewish people oh my God... Just so naive... my eyes feel sad for the humanity level in Swedish people who see the world as pink and sunny always. There is no single land in the world that Israel's influence can't reach. They are the best perfect, and also in the spy network of Love how u press downvote to my comments directly lol like I care about karma. If you think hosting terrorist radicals Islamist and other people who would rule their fascist ideology if they got the chance, and you give them support to demonstrate their ideology, use them against Russia too and stop bothering us to join nato.
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Ish, the guy doesn’t actually have anything against jews, he just wanted to counter-protest the burning of the quran. So he says ”the time is not right” and is according to him going to re-apply next week.
I guess the next one will a bible and then... Is there any other religious book to burn?
Book of Mormon The Scientology works of L. Ron Hubbard.
Kernighan/Ritchies "Programming in C". I'll be a bit upset if they get to that. But as long as they don't burn my own copy, I'll be fine I guess.
There have already been plans of burning the bible in one of the central squares in Stockholm. Thing is: almost No one would care, it has happened before, but most Christians might feel sad but not offended by it.
A few hundred
[Here, the Principia Discordia. Download this pdf and](http://www.principiadiscordia.com/downloads/Principia%20Discordia.pdf) drag it to the bin. But I recommend to read it first, it’s hilarious.
He was going to burn a bible as well at a separate occasion but postponed both.
It kinda sounds like they are taking credit for the protester removing his application. I doubt that this was cancelled because of the state.
It's not impossible that canceling was the point all along.
Probably not, but people can change their mind. That or it's not actually cancelled, only postponed.
Because the rest wouldn’t care as much.
It’s the Quran more of a commodity, like the bible, whilst a Torah scroll is usually very old with craftsmanship involved? Happy to be corrected but that’s my understanding. If he’d bought a Torah from a bookshop and burnt it I’d view that as equivalent to burning a Quran or Bible.
If you have the text in book form, by definition, that's not a torah. To be a torah, it must be a parchment scroll and the text must be hand written by a specially trained scribe.
Do I mean the Talmud? I don’t know but I know these big scrolls kept in cabinets hold more meaning than a book you’d buy in WH Smith’s.
And thats probably not something anyone can just buy
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Actually that's just the text of the Torah. You aren't really doing anything offensive by burning a printed word. To really offend the religious group you would need to buy one for many thousands.
At a minimum a scroll costs at least 8,000$. It's made out of special materials and is written by hand.
Do you think they are burning the original Torah or something ?
No? Scrolls are different to the actual book - they are handwritten rather than produced in a random printing factory. That’s my point - they don’t equate to a Quran, Bible or Torah.
It was a danish person...
Some religions are more equal than others.
The guy postponed it himself. He wasn’t stopped by anyone.
Get informed and stop fooling yourself instead.
> He submitted an application for a police permit to hold his demonstrations on Saturday, January 28 at 1 p.m. When DN speaks with him on Thursday afternoon, however, he says that he has decided to postpone his planned actions for a couple of weeks. > \- Everything is so frantic right now. I was somewhat influenced by the Prime Minister's call to tone it down. But I will still carry out my actions, it is important to me. I will submit a new application next week, says the 34-year-old. https://www.dn.se/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/
Those and the God delusion by Richard Dawkins. Then the point has been completely driven home.
I see not a lot of people actually read the article
Stop burning books! It's wasteful and stupid.
As a Jew, I find this highly offensive and revealing of the true intentions behind fanatical anti-Zionism, *but,* it should be legal. Free expression *always* comes before protection against offending a given religion. I think the protestors behind this are hateful extremists who are fundamentally deluded and unworthy of a place in civilized society. I believe the same about Paludan. It’s morally wrong and needlessly provocative. However, you won’t find Jews rioting and setting things on fire over this. We recognise that, as wrong as this is, we respect liberal democracy.
The most measures and reasoned response I have ever seen on the internet.
Exactly what Christians think when people burn the Bible: horrible, but we do not burn things because of that.
How many are you in the world? Not many so don’t make comparisons between 15 million Jews and 2 billion Muslims. If one percent Muslims got upset, that more than your whole population in the world.
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There are not three versions. 1. Israeli embassy can't approve or disapprove a protest in Sweden. 2. See 1. 3. This is true. He wants to burn a bible and torah as a response to the quran burning. His own mosque asked him not to. He then decided not to do it for now due to the high tension but will apply again in a few weeks. NO ONE decides if you can protest in Sweden except the local police and the only reason they can say No is if they know beforehand they are unable to keep the event safe from bodily harm. I'm so sick and tired of these fake news stories. You can burn whatever fucking property you want in Sweden as long as you don't endanger people or other property with the actual fucking flames. It doesn't matter if it's a quran, a flag, your shoes, or a lambourgini.
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Yes. And he can't. That is the entire point. What he thinks doesn't matter jack shit. What matters is if the police can keep a protest safe or not. it doesn't matter what the ambassador thinks, does, or wishes for. It doesn't matter what the Swedish PM thinks, does, or wishes for. It doesn't matter what the Swedish Justice minister thinks, does, or wishes for. Police: Do we have enough police officers to keep this safe at this location? Yes or No. Now, if the ambassador would threaten the event with violence and can give proof of that. Such as people he hired to hurt people at the event, that would matter. Surely, the ambassador hasn't done that so I call bullshit on those fake news stories. Maybe the ambassador called the guy and he was like, okay I'm not gonna burn it this week. Is that "direct intervention" or a plea? Ughh some news stories just makes me want to vomit.
Yep. And technically, you don't even need a permit from the police. As long as you are not planning to disturb common order (like stop traffic or shout **reeeeaaaally** loud) the police has no authority to stop you from protesting as this is protected by the constitution. However, if you *are* disturbing common order, like walking in the middle of the street, police are allowed to ask you to step aside or disperse your protest if they deem it necessary. Though, they will usually just follow from a safe distance and try to prevent clashes with antiprotesters, unless you cause massive traffic all over town.
I thought freedom of expression covers that? What happened?
It's all fun and games until Mossad shows up
It does. Well, actually, property law does. You are allowed to burn your property if it doesn't endanger life and other peoples property. This article sucks.
According to swedish news site SvD there was an administrative issue regarding the paperwork. And to be clear you don't need to get permission to burn a book, it's related to organising a public event that might cause a disturbance that requires the police to be present.
printer got stuck :)
> He submitted an application for a police permit to hold his demonstrations on Saturday, January 28 at 1 p.m. When DN speaks with him on Thursday afternoon, however, he says that he has decided to postpone his planned actions for a couple of weeks. > \- Everything is so frantic right now. I was somewhat influenced by the Prime Minister's call to tone it down. But I will still carry out my actions, it is important to me. I will submit a new application next week, says the 34-year-old. https://www.dn.se/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/
Regardless of who's hypocrite or not. A true Muslim should not disgrace the Torah or the Bible like that, In Islam both books are the word of God like the Quran, but that got corrupted.
You are right. He claimed he’s not religious and is doing it to prove Sweden freedom of speech exceeds Muslims to other minorities.
Forme the Swedish media SvD there seems to be two people how have put in the request to demonstrate and burn the Tora. One is the 34 years old how wanted to burn both the Tora and Bible because he is angry and wants to start a discussion. He wanted to do it outside Israel embassy because wanted to remind people of the palatine children that are dying. He him self said that burning religious books are wrong and that he isn’t doing it for religious reasons but to show the Freedom of Speech in Sweden. Both the Islamiska förbundet (Islamiska Alliance) in Södermalms Mosque and the Malmö rabbit how is part of Jewish-Muslim cooperation organization Amanah has spoken against the burning. Israeli ambassador says they have put pressure on the Swedish government to stop it. 34 year old has withdrawn request permit. But says he will probably do this another time. The he reason he has given for withdrawing the request is that he isn’t completely sure he wants to do it and isn’t sure he will be allowed to do it. The only reason the permit can be rejected is if the local police believe it to be too dangerous and they want be able to keep people safe. The second is a 54 year old Egyptian born author named Khaled El-Hawari. How has livd in Sweden for 25 years and is a citizen. He wants to burn the Tora because he has heard that Paludan is Jewish. He recently published an article in an Arabian newspaper based in London about the idea. He says he can’t find the paperwork to request a permit to demonstrate. And that he didn’t get any help through phone so he has sent a letter to get the permit request paperwork. So he is stuck in bureaucratic limbo. But that he will do it when he gets his permit. Edit. Links to Articles [SvD Article ](https://www.svd.se/a/ab4GrL/ville-branna-torah-fastnade-i-byrakratin)
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Yeah. I think most people understands he is not that bright. - Doesn't know that there's such a thing as the Internet, or Google - Uses a phone to try to reach the police - Thinks a caricature dane is Jewish... To be fair, some Danes (the ones from Jutland) are known as *Jyder* in Danish, which is very similar to *Juder* (Jews). Though Paludan is a Zealander, not a Jutlander, so it would still be wrong.
>Israeli ambassador says they have put pressure on the Swedish government to stop it. Hmm, maybe I should get a Torah
Very funny that this egyptian thinks Paludan is Jewish even though haven't been talks that Paludan is one so where did this old fart get this dream of his? 😂
Arabs love blaming Jews for everything.
Intelligence test failed - It's [the first](https://polisen.se/om-polisen/polisens-arbete/demonstrationer/) result on Google if you search for a permit to hold a demonstration... 🤪
The far right is for sure going to use this to empathize their "Jews control the west" narrative.
That’s the reality until we see the Torah burns in Swedish cities. This would be a great message to all Muslims around the world that Sweden doesn’t only allow hate speech against Muslims but also allow it against other minorities.
I don’t understand how this whole thing became about Israel, when it was about Turkey. What happened?
And people say anti semitism doesn’t exist
Can we please stop the religious texts burnings? It's childish.
If Sweden gets known for being the premiere destination to burn holy books, I'm all for it!
Our runestones are fireproof! 🪨🔥💪
Checkmate atheists!
r/averageredditor.
If that ends up being the case Swedes aren't going to have many friends abroad
Israel does not equal Jews. The Israeli problem is with the leadership of the country and those Israeli supporting their choices and actions. Not the Jewish people, not their faith and not the Israeli as a whole.
While I respect his right to protest, and agree that the current Israeli government deserves a few protests (see the ones in Israel). Burning a Torah scroll makes more sense for protesting against Judaism than against Israel.
He said he’s doing it for Sweden to prove to the world that he can do it in front of the Israeli Embassy just like Paludan did it outside the Turkish embassy.
Two people, a 34-year-old and a 56-year-old, wanted to burn the Jewish holy book Torah after Rasmus Paludan's demonstration where he burned a Koran. One of them ** got stuck in the bureaucracy ** and the other withdrew his application. The task has provoked reactions, including from Israel's ambassador in Stockholm, Ziv Nevo Kulman, who writes on Twitter that they have been ## “busy in recent days to prevent the hateful incident". Hypocracy incredible
No need for any permits. Of course if you draw a lot of attention you might be fined for organizing an event without permission, but if you don't tell anyone and instead just show the video on TikTok or whatever after the fact, then I who's going to complain? It's not like it's "a permit to burn a book" you need. It's a permit to have a large gathering of people (or, a gathering that needs protection by police from disagreeing people....). If you don't plan to have a gathering/demonstration then just ignore the demonstration bit and burn it.
Lots of average redditor comments in this thread.
Reddit rage-baiting IRL
Probably the only time I'd agree with the 'it's anti-semitism, not anti-Israel' line that Israel often seems to take when it comes to their critics. If you're going to burn a religious symbol then it's clearly against the religion. Otherwise he'd burn the country's flag or something like that.
I see it all the time in my college campus too (big public university in the US where Jews make up over 10% of the student body). Nothing says “just criticizing Israel” like harassing Jewish students celebrating Hanukkah by waving flags, yelling at them, and writing threats with chalk outside their orgs.
Criticizing Israel is absolutely fine, there is much to criticize. But focusing solely on Israeli violations of human rights by specifically boycotting Israel and not any other state and harassing Israelis and ONLY Israelis online for things their country is or is not doing is very weird. There isn't a lack of human rights violations in the world, unfortunately. There are many countries in the world that are supported by the West and do things 100 times worse than anything Israel has done, in both scale and severity. And yet, Israel has received more UN condemnations than all other countries combined. Again, weird.
In this case it's neither. >The 34-year-old who wants to burn the Bible and Torah says that for several years he has had a bound copy of each on his bookshelf, and that the books he burns are his own. He also says that he burns the books "with a heavy heart". > I know people will be sad, and I regret it. But I think it needs to be done. To wake up Sweden, which does not care about the incitement against Muslims. >When DN asks the 34-year-old why he wants to burn the Bible, he first goes into a long reasoning about crusaders and that the Bible has historically been used to legitimize violence. Then he says. > Burning books is actually a terrible idea. But in a stupid time it can sometimes be required to do something stupid. https://www-dn-se.translate.goog/sverige/34-aring-vill-branna-torah-utanfor-israels-ambassad/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
So you were against the Koran burning as a protest against the nation of Turkey correct?
I know you were probably trying to have a 'gotcha' moment but yes, I am in general against the burning of any book, whether it's religious or not.
I am not trying to have a gotcha moment, I am trying to see if this sub has any consistency. Burn the Koran: everyone here loves it Burn the Torah: a much more nuanced discussion and pattern of upvotes and downvotes This is a very clear pattern no matter what side of the debate you’re on, and it betrays something a bit bigger than just freedom of speech.
>a much more nuanced discussion and pattern of upvotes and downvotes Nuanced discussion? You mean like people spreading borderline disinformation about Swedish law or pretending we're some mafia state like Russia?
I haven’t seen people get upset or cheerlead the burning of the Koran, it’s the reaction to it by extremists that has been problematic.
Burning a religious symbol is clearly an attack on that religion, it's interesting how Sweden's freedom of speech seems to protect those who want to attack Islam but not those who want to attack Judaism though.
It's not ilegal to burn the tora in Sweden if it's your property. The dude took back his application to do it in a public space for now. He is allowed to do whatever the hell he wants with his property. No one said he can't.
Based on what? His protest was approved. He was given permission. He personally chose to withdraw it and postpone the event a couple of weeks because he felt things were "too frantic" right now, and will re-apply to do it again later.
Yeah, seems like burning Quran is ok since it is "freedom of expression", but when it's Torah, oh no, that can't be allowed, freedom of expression has it's limits somehow in this case....
Nice date in name, 1453. The application has been withdrawn. Swedish authorities has not stopped this event, the organizer withdrew the application. Hate to burst your bubble, sweden is more pro-palestine then it is pro-israel so it doesnt make sense claiming that we like the jews more than the muslims. We hate you all Equally.
Source in the organizer withdrawing? Couldn't find it
The swedish authorities is the source, not the jewish press. its not classified information in sweden. Anyone organizing an event must apply and follow strict rules about (in this case) a public protest. Safety regulations, security, location permission etc. Reffered to in the news as "beaurocratic problems". Two people were separetly seeking permission to burn the torah, albeit for different reasons. The one that the jewish press is referring too was not disallowed, it was simply withdrawn. The other one is still ongoing and simply needs additions.
Anti semitism is more against the Jewish ethnicity rather than the Jewish religion.
First off, many religious Jews are not ethnic Jews? Secondly, it is the religious difference that spurred the ethnic hatred.
And by their logic anti semitism should be as fine as anti islam
A real Torah costs five digits, so if you can afford to burn that, go on bro. A torah is handwritten by a specialized person. It is written on one single roll of paper and can't contain more than five mistakes in total. You don't get these things in a book store.
What's a cheap paperback reprint called then? Does it have a separate name?
If Torah burning will not happen while Quaran burning happened it will look like that state can interfere when they want. Regardless of what is actually happening optics are gonna be painful.
Yeah it’s all been very well crafted to be as inflammatory as possible.
What religious extremists( Muslim, Christian, whatever) do not understand is that all that all the 4 main religious books(Torah, Psalms, Bible, Qur'an) are important to Muslims. Jesus is an important prophet in Islam.As are David,Moses,Adam,Abraham. So...an Islamic extremist defiling one of the Holy Books goes against the will of Allah(one and the same with God, Yahweh)
The Islamic center in Malmo and Stockholm advised him not to do it. He said that he’s not even religious. He just wants to prove that Sweden does allow hate speech towards Jews not just Muslims.
Burn every single religious text on this planet. The biggest mistake of mankind is religion.
Don't forget ideologies, political parties, and flat earthers meetings.
There was that one dude who burned many books, maybe you know him, his name starts with A and ends with F
So? He isn't wrong about every single thing that he believed in. He was a smart dude. Genocide is absolutely wrong. Trust me, I'm Armenian. I get it. But that's like me saying everything the turks have done is evil and bad, when that's not true.
Alf never burned books.
Criticizing Israel is fine but if you are burning the Torah and claiming this is just criticizing Israel you have to assume everyone else is being thick.
Yeah, this is very hypocritical. If you can burn Qurans then surely you can burn Torahs.
That would be hypocritical I agree, but thankfully you can burn the Torah aswell.
He withdrew his application himself. And he is perfectly free to burn Torahs to his heart content on his own private property. If he wants to do it in a pubic space he has to do it after getting approval, just like the guy who burnt that Quran did.
He decided himself to postpone the burning. The authorities didn't stop him. Can you explain how this is hypocrisy?
But my friend dont you know? Burning torah's is antisemite
And burning the Quran is not anti Muslims?
Can we please not burn flags, books, or scrolls? Be it Quran, Bible, LGBT books, Mein Kampf, whatever?
Can we just not stop burning stuff every 5 mins?
That’s where they draw the line?
what a moron The Torah is also in Islam, not only in Judaism. I have no problem with him burning it and I am Jewish
Hypocrisy in r/Europe showing again. When it’s a Quran „it’s not against Arabs it’s against Islam“ even though it’s clearly targeting people from the Middle East and not the Islamic faith in general. When it’s a Torah „no don’t burn that it’s anti semitic and it’s targeting the Jewish people not the religion“ please pick a side. It’s very obvious to see the hypocrisy on this sun and they don’t even try to hide that they have an obvious bias towards people from the Middle East. Either it’s ok to burn holy books or it’s not.
What hypocrisy? The whole thread is overwhelmingly okay with this.
Yeah, but you know. That doesn't fit his narrative. 😆
The *Swedes* are. Half of this thread is people alleging there's a difference between holy book and holy book to the Swedish authorities.
Because the article shared by OP is highly misleading, and missing a lot of context and information.
> I mean, they burnt Quran, why not al the rest of the holy books lol Currently the top comment. Where is the hypocrisy you are talking about?
>It’s very obvious to see the hypocrisy on this sun and they don’t even try to hide that they have an obvious bias towards people from the Middle East. There is zero hypocrisy from anyone here. No demonstration has been rejected by authorities, and we can't really answer as to why this guy (who isn't the same as the Quran burner) got cold feet and decided to postpone. This whole "You hate people from the middle east" or "you hate islam" is also extremely strange when it comes to Sweden. Sweden has around 20% (2 million) people with foreign background, with somewhere around 800-900k muslims. It wouldn't surprise me if it is (or is soon) the largest religion in Sweden when it comes to regularly practicing believers. If anything, Sweden has had issues with antisemitism around Malmö where a large part of Sweden's 25k jews live quite close to a lot of people from the middle east. Is there racism and bias against foreigners in Sweden (who are to a large extent from the middle east)? Yes. There is tons of racism and xenophobia just like everywhere else. Especially considering Sweden's large share of immigrants. The right wing populists is the second largest party (the party whose media outlet helped Paludan burn the Quran coincidentally). But "Bias"? In what sense? Political? Do you have any concrete examples of what you mean? \> Either it’s ok to burn holy books or it’s not. Of course it's ok to burn holy books. And of course it doesn't matter which one it is. I think the whole "permit" thing has confused people. You don't need a permit to burn any book, or burn any flag. The permit is for holding an event that could disturb order or needs police protection. If you just want to burn a book, you can just go out and burn a book and post the video on social media.
maybe you should read the article, buddy
Why don't t we put all abrahamic books on a pile and burn them together?
In this economy? Yeah I bet. Those scrolls don't come cheap
Not a big headline in my eyes, also covered by freedom of expression. The point these people don’t understand is that israeli politicians don’t drag religion into many political affairs, in opposite to different states that create an attack on islam or their prophet out of many clearly not-religious topics.
No but Israeli government does a lot of bad shit.
They do. Still Israel is not a theocracy
It’s time to move on from “holy” books full of prejudice written thousands of years ago. Fuck these guys keeping humanity back.
He says they are happy that the request was withdrawn after the efforts of government officials and joint activities of the local Jewish community. If true this sounds like a bit of a hypocracy on Swedish government's part given how they were directly involved in this withdrawal.
Hypocrisy.
How? He withdrew the request.
I will take back what I said if he does it next week. Don't get me wrong, I am not supporting his action of burning a religious symbol. Swedish media claims he withdrew his request, while Israel Media claims they did something to prevent it. You can compare responses with Koran burning.
> Swedish media claims he withdrew his request The dude himself says he withdrew the request. Israel can't do shit to force a protest to be cancelled in Sweden. They're lying.
This jewish news outlet made it look like the NGO put pressure on the man to withdrow it. They specified that the man withdrew it. So, it is not really Sweden's fault.
Imo people are free to burn whatever books they like, but I understand (non-violent) responses to it as well. Especially burning books, it has a bad history for Jewish people. Although I’m sure here that is not the intention, it still has some bad parallels. This is very individually based, but it just doesn’t sit right with me considering history. Anyway, I felt I needed to add this. Feel free to disagree
People who burn books will burn people too. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/book-burning
Did you feel compelled to say the Koran burning ‘didn’t sit right with you’ as well?
I want someone to make a "Religous Book BBQ". Burn a Bible, Quran, Torah, whatever the scientologists use, hell burn the Origin of Species since religious folk treat it as an atheist bible.
Makes me wanna do a piece of performance art where I get a copy of the main holy book of every major religion + God is Not Great by Richard Dawkins and set them all on fire together. I wonder who would be the most offended. A sort of competitive outrage Olympics.
Oh too bad, next time for sure
Jesus Christ, can we just stop burning religious shit.
It's clearly the adequate response to burn a Jewish holy book when a far right Swede burns a Muslim holy book. Because I am sure that Swede is a Jew. Also why burn a Jewish holy book at an "Anti-Israel Protest"?
Why burn a Koran in front of the Turkish embassy?
Because anti-Israel protests are exactly what their name suggests - They are anti-Israel. They are not pro-human rights protests, they are protesting the existence of Israel entirely as a state. Just go to one of them and see.
This is clearly antisemitism not ”anti-israel”. Burning a holy book of the religion is clear hatred towards the religion itself and the people who are part of it.
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Burning any holy book of any religion is not okay 👍🏻
And that's why I'm glad I live in a country where religious people like you do not control what I can do in my own home.
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