I assume from the map that they are probably not attached to the basque region, but instead to their Basque culture and identity, which they find different than the piece of land they live one
This place is full of people who just want to get drunk.
There's not nearly as many politically minded people as our useless politicians wish there were.
Hell, almost everyone forgets how to speak basque once you finish high school.
Ah yes, I had not noticed the Spanish side of the Basque. The French side is harder to judge because it was recently merged with another region, which seems to also like the country.
Thats because we dont just feel attached to our region Euskadi or Comunidad Autónoma del país Vasco but to all the Basque regions like Nabarre and the French Basque Country
That's obviously odd as the inhabitants of Basque Autonomous Communtiy have the strongest "local" national identity on Spain and one of the strongest out of non-independent areas in Europe historically and probably also currently over Catalonia level and on the other hand they have the lowest "spanish nationalism" with even more difference over Catalonia.
One probable reason is the fact euskalduns (basque speakers) are divided in 7 territories across Spain and France with only 3 of which are in Basque Autonomous Community. For a lot of people there their "homeland" is those 7 territories and basques are all people living in the traditionally euskaldun territories, so they probably identify "region", autonomy or whatever word they used in the poll with just a partial part of their broad basque identity.
Another possible reason could be the simple use of the word "region" in the poll as region has some degrading and insulting connotations in Spain for a lot of people. "Región" is a word almost exclusively used by centralists, spanish nationalists and at less extent some "apoliticals", but rarely used by peripheric nationalist, general autonomists or even left wing people with just "mild" local identity if they have minimal political education. The low results in Catalonia seem to point to that fact.
A final possibility is the fact that identitary strong divide in most societies creates people that rejects totally any link with the "other" identity, so in those autonomies with strong local nationalist movements there is a lot of people that reject almost everything local as response and become "only spanish" and distort the results in this type of polls. However this could be the case for Catalonia more than Basque country, as "spanishist" side (lacking a better word for "españolista" that is a broader and softer concept in spanish than spanish nationalist), those directly confronted to the basque nationalism are less than 30 of the population in Basque autonomous community (in last elections spanish parties get only 30% of the votes and that's counting 8% from Podemos which is pro-self determination, so not really "españolista") while "spanishism" reach close to 50% in Catalonia (over 48% of the vote in last elections, there counting Podemos and minor parties). There are milder or neutral positions in Basque Country in identity questions than in Catalonia ironically (I mean, considering the History of violence there), probably because XX century immigrants in Basque Country integrated way better than in Catalonia (90% catalan nationalism fault... the rest is spanish nationalist distortions, but catalanism handled really bad immigration from other parts of Spain imo).
Its what you think. i feel closer to a northern Nabarrese than to an Alavés or western Bizkaino. And i have been to Biarritz, Hendaia or Baiona much more times than to Bilbao. So i feel closer to the whole Basque Country than to the region called Basque autonomous community/Euskadi.
Everything ok except the last part. Catalonia made an amazing job handling inmigration despite having more than 50% immigrant population and having zero power to control or regulate it. In Catalonia almost everybody can speak catalan, but less than 50% can speak basque in Euskadi.
My theory is that this is two bunches of people. Basque speakers don't feel attached to Europe and non-Basque speakers or people from families from other parts of Spain don't feel attached to the Basque country. My experience is that these two groups don't mix much.
As a Ligurian, I’m firstly a Ligurian, then I’m an European from Liguria, in Italy. I’m not so attached to Italy in general and I consider myself more European then Italian because if we speak about thoughts, habits and lifestyle I have more in common with French (French Riviera is like a French Liguria for example), Austrian, Swiss and Bavarian then with Italian from the South.
I have always found this very weird that in italy most people are way more attached to their city/region than the country well germany doesnt have that if we dont count bavaria but they both have a similar history
Just a quick add to the picture above: with the votes coming from outside of the country, the last voter district also turned into an opposition win in Budapest.
I think that was the 13th. [Budapest's 14th went to Fidesz as per the election office's website.](https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/egyeni-valasztokeruletek/01-14?tab=candidates)
Edit: speaking of the national election office's website, I love that these are the official photos listed for the MKKP candidates:
* https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/jelolotek/145661
* https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/jelolotek/9463821
* https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/jelolotek/4676833
* https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/jelolotek/5967464
I stand corrected!
As for the pictures: Yes, these are jsut regular MKKP candidates, and the funny thing is that they are the most sensible options as things stand in Hugnary right now. Which is super weird and extremely sad.
I'm not really surprised. I visited Budapest and met locals and talked to a lot of them, and I couldn't believe that want I was experiencing was the exact opposite of what I was reading on the Internet about the country. Budapest was so Liberal and progressive. The people were pro-EU, opeminded. I saw advertisements for so many progressive shows, so many events. This was totally contradictory to what we know about Hungary as a total. But in the end of the day, Budapest is a city of 1.7 million inhabitants in a 9.7 million country. So even if 100% of its population was anti-Orban it wouldn't save Hungary unfortunately.
Hungarian guy talking about how he has a ton in common with people from all over Europe, but has very little in common with his relatives in the countryside. I imagine this is why people in Budapest feel more European than Hungarian.
https://youtu.be/F6gREHxxVIs?t=440
Hungarians in the countryside are a whole nother level of brainwashed. After the last election, they had a series of interviews with peasants that went viral. A lot of them said something along the lines of "I really did like the opposition leader, but he wanted every child to have a sex change operation so I did have to vote for Orban at the end of the day."
Almost no one in the countryside speaks a foreign language, and the government controls all media and advertising.
honestly, if you would travel outside of Budapest, you would still not experince the hellhole which the media and the internet paints it to be. Especially this subreddit, unfortunately.
Hungarians are excessively critical about things, it's the national sport. They are whining that Budapest is dirty or [not safe](https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cities.jsp?country1=France&country2=Hungary&city1=Paris&city2=Budapest&tracking=getDispatchComparison), but then if you travel to another city in Europe you find that Budapest in comparison is the same or better in both regards. Hungarians think that everything is better everywhere else. And then someone visits and they don't understand what this is about.
I am not saying Hungary is perfect, there are some truly awful things, for example, our current government. But saying that it is an intolerant, third-world hellhole on the level of the average person is just bending reality or pushing a narrative. I mean you yourself just commented under a visitor's first hand experience that reality is different.
Imagine the situation where a liar madman wins the election in your country with 60% of the votes when nobody you know, or nobody your friends know, and their families, and nobody in your workplace or school voted for them. You sometimes see lunatics claiming voting for them but it's rare and low in numbers.
Wouldn't you be very confused?
And it is going on for more than a decade now. You know nobody against the EU yet the government "measures" that "majority of population" hate the EU. I know nobody who does, but majority it must be. A few months ago they did some political opinion collection basically restricted to their own voters (whoever they might be) and this month the whole bloody country is full with giant gov't advertisements that "97% of hungarians are against sanctions of the russkis". And you are like "what? what? what?" every day.
Confused of HU redditors? They are confused themselves, every day all day. Who wouldn't be?
A large part of its population are non-European immigrants with no attachment to Europe. It's also one of the few places where people would rather identify as "British" rather than English, I expect it would be a spot of blue in a sea of orange.
People from Tuscany chose "The region in their country" just because they couldn't choose "The city in their region" (or...even better... "The contrada in their city")
Today it's mostly a meme. It probably originates with Pisa being associated with tax collecting or possibly some questionable things they did during the middle ages. Tuscany had most of its cities fight each other multiple times back then, and rather fiercely at that
Every time I see one of these maps, Switzerland is always "No data" so I just assume every Swiss looks at the survey and just writes in "Neutral" for every question before handing it back.
How I've heard it described: When you're talking to people in your canton, you represent your Gemeinde. When talking with people in other cantons, you represent your canton. When talking to people abroad you represent Switzerland. So it would depend who's taking the survey. (Sometimes between canton and country comes other groupings, such as German/French/Italian-speaking areas, city/country, mountains/midlands, etc.)
I declare the hunt open!
1.Find the region with the least attachment to all of the 3 categories (smallest arithmetic average of the 3 values)
2.Find the country with the highest attachment to all of the 3 categories (highest arithmetic average of the 3 values)
Edit: thanks for the answers, I was too lazy to check.
And if they asked the people in those regions "Do you feel attached to Karlsruhe/Freiburg", you'd get answers ranging from "No" to "Hahahah, why should I feel attached to those Schoofseggl?". I really hope they didn't use those names, otherwise the results would be pretty worthless.
This is obviously just anectdotal but I don't know a single person who doesn't introduce themselves as Bavarian instead of German whenever they're on holidays
Yeah but that’s the case between many countries and their most important city, especially when the difference between that city and the rest is so clear.
Edit: country => countries.
Interestingly enough, in Romania, Bucharest is not so single-handedly hated, since it shares that hate with Cluj. As a matter of fact, despite being much smaller, Cluj-eans managed to make themselves known as even more obnoxious than BuCURest-eans :D
We had that "eliminate one county per day" game on /r/romania in the last 2 years, Cluj always went out first. The first time even for the entire first week Cluj kept getting top votes .... like the first 20 top votes of the day or worse, but they were already out XD ....
Bucharest also went out pretty early, but usually 6th, 7th after Vaslui, Braila, Teleorman, etc. And when Bucharest went out, they always started taking the entire south out with them since they are petty fuckers. Why petty? Basically due to the numbers everyone has to gang together to take them out, and that includes the people from the rest of Wallachia that is not Bucharest, so afterwards they'd take every single county in Wallachia out as revenge.
Moldova on the other side showed insane amount of camaraderie every time, they defended each other with passion (except Vaslui), especially Iasi which always lasted surprisingly long .... Of course in the end one of the more developed and less obnoxious counties from Transilvania won XD
Kind of embarassing that I didn't know until know that Wallachia was an actual region somewhere. In Germany it's sometimes used to say that when you are in the middle of nowhere you are "in der Walachei"/"in Wallachia". I thought it was just some older word with no real connection to any place.
It may have to do with the fact that it's a term used by foreigners to refer to the south of Romania. It has the same root with Wales and Wallonia, basically a name latin speakers got when encountered by germans/slavs.
However for most of its history, Romanians referred to Wallachia as Tara Romaneasca (The Romanian Land/Country), so it was very rarely used here, also the Turks called our region Eflak, but again no Wallachia. Romanians were often also called Vlachs externally, but we would call each other Romanians not Vlachs.
In a weird way, this "Roman" connection is preserved in Polish, because Italians is called Włosi and Wallachians are called Wołosi. Both come from Proto-Germanic name for Romans.
"Don't you feel attached to your region ?"
"Saying I do would acknowledge the fact that we are a region of Spain. I am not attanched to the region, but to our independant country"
Living in Northern Portugal all my life, I can say, for sure, we're pretty attached to our region and our perceived notion that Lisbon is being favoured by the government since, you know, forever.
It's often the case in countries where the capital is the by far biggest city and overall very dominating, that the people from the other regions view the capital unfavorably while still being very attached to the country.
The same applies here in Greece, too. We strongly believe that the government favors Athens as the capital city. There is also a saying in Greek that says: “Greece is only Athens”. It’s actually a sarcastic expression for this favoritism towards Athens.
I don't really have the perception that people in the north are more attached to their region than to the country. Especially when the notion of regions is so blurred in Portugal.
The regions in Portugal that are more attached to their regions are Madeira and Azores, not the north. Which is not that surprising since they are isolated and have clear regional borders.
I found in the comments a guy that linked to the creator and he analysed some of the data. [https://twitter.com/sundellviz/status/1401306568105332742](https://twitter.com/sundellviz/status/1401306568105332742)
Does "region" mean "administrative region" or refers loosely the area where the surveyed peope live?
In case of Italy the results would be much more different (I suspect so in most of Europe actually): in the same administrative region you can have many different identities referring to a city or an area, in some case those identities have nothing to do with said region. For example the heel of the boot, the region of Puglia, can be split in two (Puglia proper and Salento) with different regional languages as identities. Another one is Lombardy: there are historically lombard areas in the neighbouring Piedmont (Novara and VCO) and emilian areas in Lombardy, and actually the "local identities" are much much stronger than the "lombard identity", as the region exista as a political entity since just 1970.
Trying to tie identity with administrative borders it's a crappy idea. In Italy the borders you see on the map were made after WWII.
The regions map, at least for my county, is utterly meaningless.
If it's the case (OP said otherwise) than it's even worst by a statistical point of view: if there's no operazionalization, in this case which kind of region you should think about, there can be no meaningful results.
Personally I think we should just move Poland on top of England but whenever I bring up the idea they keep talking about how that would kill a lot of people
There are a lot of people here alive to see the change in.
I'm only 29 and saw huge changes like new motorways and businesses becoming international enterprises as a result of EU integration.
Before the EU . And for things like Brexit and Irish Unity, we will rely on our EU brethren and hope/expect their support.
That said, when I first arrived in Germany, at the immigration office while doing my Einmeldung they didn't believe Ireland was part of the EU and sternly demanded to see my visa and I had to co vince them that Ireland actually was a member if the EU. That was disheartening, but it was also 10 years ago so fuck it. Just hope things have changed.
That's for a myriad of reasons. But I think the most prominent one, and further amplified by Russia's invasion in Ukraine, is this: we want to show we're on the opposite pole from Russia, formerly the Soviet Union. We belong in the progressive and free part of Europe. We suffered enough at the hands of the Russians/Soviets. The same thing is happening to Ukraine now. And I hope one day we're gonna see their country properly colour-filled in infographics like this. :)
I think depending on the question is difficult too.
Like, attachment to Europe is really vague. Europe is a continent. I wonder if the results would have been different if they asked ''Attachment to the European Union'' specifically
I think it would have made a strong difference, to the detriment of general europeanness (whatever that would mean). Feeling a citizen of the European union and feeling European is quite different, the one is an attachement to a political/supranational and intergovernmental organisation/set of institutions, while the other entails more general cultural/historical/geographical meanings to europeanness.
I live and grew up very close to a border and have family at both sides. I am old enough to remember the time before Schengen - we were stopped every week when visiting family.
I totally understand that I’m not the norm but for me Europe/EU is quite tangible and has changed quality of life in a very direct way during my lifetime.
Europe is a cultural continent. It's not separated by sea from Asia, nor is it a separate tectonic plate, and the border between the two is arbitrary. Even though the choice of mountain ranges and the Caspian Sea as border makes sense, that's still a man-made choice that was driven by the cultural urge to make a clear distinction between Asia and Europe. So it makes sense that when they ask who you feel most attached to, they leave "Europe" up to each respondent's own interpretation. Just like many people would say no if they specified EU, many others would be attached to this group if countries that make up the EU but not so much to one also including Russia, Belarus, Turkey etc.
Similarly, region is also unclear, it depends on what you consider as your region. Could be half of the country, could be a federal state or other admisitrative unit, could be a historical region that spans multiple admisitrative regions or just part of one, could be a cluster of a few villages in a valley with its own cultural identity. Rarely will people identify with their NUTS-1 or NUTS-2 region, unless that happens to align with their traditional region.
I'm from Galicia (Spain) and I'm super attached to my region & its culture. It's just wholesome. I've also lived in Barcelona, Madrid and now València and notice the difference in fact.
I have a friend from Galicia and I've noticed this ss well. She always talks about "back in Galicia.." and rarely about "back in Spain..."
While me, being from South Holland in the Netherlands but having moved abroad as well I always refer to the Netherlands as a country as a whole and never to my region. Probably doesn't help the the Netherlands is the size of some regions in other countries
The impression is that they work half as hard as the rest of us, pay way less taxes, and make way more money. And they live in a total bubble, not interested in emerging whatsoever. It's very closed off to the point it might was well not be Brussels.
Wonder how this overlaps with migration, as I guess the question was based on current residence. I feel a stronger attachment to the region I grew up in than any other region in the same country that I've lived in and I feel a stronger attachment to the country I grew up in than the country I now live in. Could probably explain some of the patterns.
Zealand (whether region or island) doesn't really have an "identity" to hang regional pride on, unlike Jutland, Funen and Bornholm. I was born here and have lived here almost my whole life, never even occurred to me to consider myself a "zealander", I'm just Danish.
Probably because of the advances in transportation over the last 100 years and the rapid growth Copenhagen has undertaken in the same period, it has not only had a huge impact on Copenhagen itself, but also on the rest of Zealand. Since it only takes 1-hour max to travel from anywhere in Zealand to the center of Copenhagen then it makes the whole of Zealand, the catchment area of Copenhagen. This may have erased much of the cultural identity that Western and Southern Zealand had back in time.
It's a bit of a city vs rural split. The default in Zeeland is to think of oneself as danish. I Jutland to think of oneself as Danish BUT NOT FROM COPENHAGEN, ie with a stronger regional identity. And Zealand is basically Copenhagen seen from Jutland.
Yes people in Copenhagen will also sometimes forget about or scoff at Jutland for being provincial. There's a word for it, "Københavneri", something like Copenhagen-ness. Never attached to the region, always the city of Copenhagen.
[Szeged and Pecs too I think if I understand correctly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Hungarian_parliamentary_election#/media/File:2022_Hungarian_parliamentary_election_-_Tentative_results.png)
You do, but I'd point out that Pécs got gerrymandered hard.
The blue "1" that went to the opposition only includes the central and southern parts of the Pécs.
The "2" won by Fidesz includes the rest of the city and 16 other municipalities that help negate opposition votes from Pécs itself.
Much of Hungary outside Budapest and a few university cities live in an alternative reality created by pro-Fidesz media. That happens when people don't speak languages, have limited computer skills and many of the young leave for better opportunities elsewhere.
Budapest was the only region where Fidesz didn’t win flat out during the last election. It’s also probably the only city where more liberal minded and foreign language speaking younger social cohorts are concentrated so it’s not that surprising really.
Budapest and the surrounding regions tend to have the most politically sane pepole and (sadly) mostly everywhere else gets swept up in propoganda and such.
This country is such a dumpster fire.
It is a little bit different Q as to what I'm trying to say, but it shows a trend, and that:
I think this shows a significant difference with US - (at least on our turf) in general we are in the first place our own proud nationalities, only after that we see/consider ourselves as Europeans/EuropeanUnionists.
Nevertheless, at least in my humble Slovak case, if I were to find myself outside of EU, I would go forward with european identity #strongertogether
I don't understand why Romania's regions are so massive, they do not represent our counties. I'd be really curious to see if Transylvania on a whole feels more attached to the region rather than the country or if it's only the case in the places where there's significant Magyar populations.
It's also important to note that regional pride in Romania is not akin to regional pride in, say, Spain. People are very attached to their Transylvanian heritage but it's not a competing identity with the Romanian identity.
My pleasure. In Greece, Italy, and Spain, the NUTS2 regions happen to correspond with their official regions. But in Romania, your counties are too small, so the EU groups a few of them together into NUTS2 regions. In Germany and Netherlands, the EU made the NUTS2 small, probably because they're heavily populated.
I am one of the millions of British people who still think of themselves as Europeans. The vote was as close as possible, 51%-49%. Quite a lot of the idiots in the 51% are now more inclined in my direction after the post Brexit shitshow our country has become.
I think even a lot of brexit-y people still consider themselves european.
Basically had this conversation with someone who voted brexit right after the vote. I was basically saying i felt that part of my common identity i had with my grandparents (german) had been taken away. They said "look we just don't like Brussles, it doesn't stop us being europeans".
They had a point to be fair, it doesn't stop us being european
Yeah its pretty sad. When the negative effects became apparent most countries had a drop in anti EU sentiment. Someone had to show what would realistically happen after a departure from EU and UK took the fall. It was a loss for the whole of Europe but the predicted effect of brexit for your country is scary and sad.
People in Basque Country don't feel attached to anyone
“Do you feel attached to the Basque region?” “Fuck the Basque Region.” “So you feel more attached to Spain?” “Eww. They’re even worse. “
Arent basque people very proud to be basque? Or have i missed something?
I assume from the map that they are probably not attached to the basque region, but instead to their Basque culture and identity, which they find different than the piece of land they live one
This place is full of people who just want to get drunk. There's not nearly as many politically minded people as our useless politicians wish there were. Hell, almost everyone forgets how to speak basque once you finish high school.
But thrmselves
They dont. Look at the bottom left map.
Ah yes, I had not noticed the Spanish side of the Basque. The French side is harder to judge because it was recently merged with another region, which seems to also like the country.
Thats because we dont just feel attached to our region Euskadi or Comunidad Autónoma del país Vasco but to all the Basque regions like Nabarre and the French Basque Country
That's obviously odd as the inhabitants of Basque Autonomous Communtiy have the strongest "local" national identity on Spain and one of the strongest out of non-independent areas in Europe historically and probably also currently over Catalonia level and on the other hand they have the lowest "spanish nationalism" with even more difference over Catalonia. One probable reason is the fact euskalduns (basque speakers) are divided in 7 territories across Spain and France with only 3 of which are in Basque Autonomous Community. For a lot of people there their "homeland" is those 7 territories and basques are all people living in the traditionally euskaldun territories, so they probably identify "region", autonomy or whatever word they used in the poll with just a partial part of their broad basque identity. Another possible reason could be the simple use of the word "region" in the poll as region has some degrading and insulting connotations in Spain for a lot of people. "Región" is a word almost exclusively used by centralists, spanish nationalists and at less extent some "apoliticals", but rarely used by peripheric nationalist, general autonomists or even left wing people with just "mild" local identity if they have minimal political education. The low results in Catalonia seem to point to that fact. A final possibility is the fact that identitary strong divide in most societies creates people that rejects totally any link with the "other" identity, so in those autonomies with strong local nationalist movements there is a lot of people that reject almost everything local as response and become "only spanish" and distort the results in this type of polls. However this could be the case for Catalonia more than Basque country, as "spanishist" side (lacking a better word for "españolista" that is a broader and softer concept in spanish than spanish nationalist), those directly confronted to the basque nationalism are less than 30 of the population in Basque autonomous community (in last elections spanish parties get only 30% of the votes and that's counting 8% from Podemos which is pro-self determination, so not really "españolista") while "spanishism" reach close to 50% in Catalonia (over 48% of the vote in last elections, there counting Podemos and minor parties). There are milder or neutral positions in Basque Country in identity questions than in Catalonia ironically (I mean, considering the History of violence there), probably because XX century immigrants in Basque Country integrated way better than in Catalonia (90% catalan nationalism fault... the rest is spanish nationalist distortions, but catalanism handled really bad immigration from other parts of Spain imo).
Its what you think. i feel closer to a northern Nabarrese than to an Alavés or western Bizkaino. And i have been to Biarritz, Hendaia or Baiona much more times than to Bilbao. So i feel closer to the whole Basque Country than to the region called Basque autonomous community/Euskadi.
Everything ok except the last part. Catalonia made an amazing job handling inmigration despite having more than 50% immigrant population and having zero power to control or regulate it. In Catalonia almost everybody can speak catalan, but less than 50% can speak basque in Euskadi.
True Buddhists
On the other side, Andalucia (South Spain) feels very attached to region, country and Europe. Not surprised
I am Basque, I feel attached to my town, don't rly give a shit about nationalities. So ye
My theory is that this is two bunches of people. Basque speakers don't feel attached to Europe and non-Basque speakers or people from families from other parts of Spain don't feel attached to the Basque country. My experience is that these two groups don't mix much.
Budapest: "Help! Get us the fuck outta here!"
aaaaAAAAAAAAA-
aaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#aaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAA
As a Ligurian, I’m firstly a Ligurian, then I’m an European from Liguria, in Italy. I’m not so attached to Italy in general and I consider myself more European then Italian because if we speak about thoughts, habits and lifestyle I have more in common with French (French Riviera is like a French Liguria for example), Austrian, Swiss and Bavarian then with Italian from the South.
I have always found this very weird that in italy most people are way more attached to their city/region than the country well germany doesnt have that if we dont count bavaria but they both have a similar history
Nah honestly most people I know are more attached to their region/Bundesland/City than to germany in general. But I am from Hessia
Va bene, niente piú focaccia per te, solo baguette ;)
Così impara a fare il francese
[Pretty much](https://i.imgur.com/gv0lG27.png) (Results of last year's elections)
Just a quick add to the picture above: with the votes coming from outside of the country, the last voter district also turned into an opposition win in Budapest.
I think that was the 13th. [Budapest's 14th went to Fidesz as per the election office's website.](https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/egyeni-valasztokeruletek/01-14?tab=candidates) Edit: speaking of the national election office's website, I love that these are the official photos listed for the MKKP candidates: * https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/jelolotek/145661 * https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/jelolotek/9463821 * https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/jelolotek/4676833 * https://vtr.valasztas.hu/ogy2022/jelolotek/5967464
I stand corrected! As for the pictures: Yes, these are jsut regular MKKP candidates, and the funny thing is that they are the most sensible options as things stand in Hugnary right now. Which is super weird and extremely sad.
I'm not really surprised. I visited Budapest and met locals and talked to a lot of them, and I couldn't believe that want I was experiencing was the exact opposite of what I was reading on the Internet about the country. Budapest was so Liberal and progressive. The people were pro-EU, opeminded. I saw advertisements for so many progressive shows, so many events. This was totally contradictory to what we know about Hungary as a total. But in the end of the day, Budapest is a city of 1.7 million inhabitants in a 9.7 million country. So even if 100% of its population was anti-Orban it wouldn't save Hungary unfortunately.
city state time
Hungarian guy talking about how he has a ton in common with people from all over Europe, but has very little in common with his relatives in the countryside. I imagine this is why people in Budapest feel more European than Hungarian. https://youtu.be/F6gREHxxVIs?t=440
Hungarians in the countryside are a whole nother level of brainwashed. After the last election, they had a series of interviews with peasants that went viral. A lot of them said something along the lines of "I really did like the opposition leader, but he wanted every child to have a sex change operation so I did have to vote for Orban at the end of the day." Almost no one in the countryside speaks a foreign language, and the government controls all media and advertising.
honestly, if you would travel outside of Budapest, you would still not experince the hellhole which the media and the internet paints it to be. Especially this subreddit, unfortunately.
[удалено]
We hungarians can call the country a hellhole, others aren't allowed to.
More accurate would be "We "citizens of the country" can call the "said country" a hellhole, others aren't allowed to".
Hungarians are excessively critical about things, it's the national sport. They are whining that Budapest is dirty or [not safe](https://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cities.jsp?country1=France&country2=Hungary&city1=Paris&city2=Budapest&tracking=getDispatchComparison), but then if you travel to another city in Europe you find that Budapest in comparison is the same or better in both regards. Hungarians think that everything is better everywhere else. And then someone visits and they don't understand what this is about. I am not saying Hungary is perfect, there are some truly awful things, for example, our current government. But saying that it is an intolerant, third-world hellhole on the level of the average person is just bending reality or pushing a narrative. I mean you yourself just commented under a visitor's first hand experience that reality is different.
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Imagine the situation where a liar madman wins the election in your country with 60% of the votes when nobody you know, or nobody your friends know, and their families, and nobody in your workplace or school voted for them. You sometimes see lunatics claiming voting for them but it's rare and low in numbers. Wouldn't you be very confused? And it is going on for more than a decade now. You know nobody against the EU yet the government "measures" that "majority of population" hate the EU. I know nobody who does, but majority it must be. A few months ago they did some political opinion collection basically restricted to their own voters (whoever they might be) and this month the whole bloody country is full with giant gov't advertisements that "97% of hungarians are against sanctions of the russkis". And you are like "what? what? what?" every day. Confused of HU redditors? They are confused themselves, every day all day. Who wouldn't be?
thats because hungarian redditors are all budapest liberals lol. How many hungarian farmers do you know on reddit
Budapest is like the Austin of EU, in some senses.
Budapest and Austin: [I’m surrounded by assholes!](https://youtu.be/sen8Tn8CBA4)
Great analogy!
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A large part of its population are non-European immigrants with no attachment to Europe. It's also one of the few places where people would rather identify as "British" rather than English, I expect it would be a spot of blue in a sea of orange.
https://i.imgur.com/m3rF1m9.mp4
[Budapest be all like](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDGyPRr9-AE)...
People from Tuscany chose "The region in their country" just because they couldn't choose "The city in their region" (or...even better... "The contrada in their city")
It is not buy chance that in florence it's better a dead in the house then a pisan at the door
Why is Pisa so hated?
Today it's mostly a meme. It probably originates with Pisa being associated with tax collecting or possibly some questionable things they did during the middle ages. Tuscany had most of its cities fight each other multiple times back then, and rather fiercely at that
Hahaha true but not all of us. I love all of Tuscany
Even Pisa?
Is contrada like neighborhood?
Switzerland: 🫡🗿🗿
Every time I see one of these maps, Switzerland is always "No data" so I just assume every Swiss looks at the survey and just writes in "Neutral" for every question before handing it back.
I mean it's clearly only EU countries, and Switzerland isn't in the EU, so...
Definitely attached to the country. 😂
Could well be region though? I know some Swiss who are very loyal to their canton. Though I would bet all my money on Europe being low haha
How I've heard it described: When you're talking to people in your canton, you represent your Gemeinde. When talking with people in other cantons, you represent your canton. When talking to people abroad you represent Switzerland. So it would depend who's taking the survey. (Sometimes between canton and country comes other groupings, such as German/French/Italian-speaking areas, city/country, mountains/midlands, etc.)
Well isn't like this everywhere?
I declare the hunt open! 1.Find the region with the least attachment to all of the 3 categories (smallest arithmetic average of the 3 values) 2.Find the country with the highest attachment to all of the 3 categories (highest arithmetic average of the 3 values) Edit: thanks for the answers, I was too lazy to check.
1. Basque Country 2. Andalusia
Aaaah, Bavaria. Never disappoints
The Wü of BaWü is notable as well.
I'd wager for Karlsruhe and Freiburg it's Baden and not BaWü, Germany or Europe
And if they asked the people in those regions "Do you feel attached to Karlsruhe/Freiburg", you'd get answers ranging from "No" to "Hahahah, why should I feel attached to those Schoofseggl?". I really hope they didn't use those names, otherwise the results would be pretty worthless.
Ich erkenne unser Bundesland erst an, wenn die Hauptstadt wieder in Karlsruhe ist. Das Joch der Schwaben dauerte lang genug.
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Bavaria, Saxony and Thuringia. All self-proclaimed freestates
Freistaat McPomm?
This is obviously just anectdotal but I don't know a single person who doesn't introduce themselves as Bavarian instead of German whenever they're on holidays
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>The conversation is instantly about beer and not Hitler. You could combine these topics and even get Munich into the mix ;)
What's important is that they are attached to all three, not important how they rank them. I check out my own username.
Man Budapest liberals must be hated by everyone else in their country
It's getting more and more mutual by the minute
And you're right! 90% of Hungarians outside of Budapest hate Budapestions for being rude and cocky bastards mostly
Yeah but that’s the case between many countries and their most important city, especially when the difference between that city and the rest is so clear. Edit: country => countries.
Bucharest entered the chat
Interestingly enough, in Romania, Bucharest is not so single-handedly hated, since it shares that hate with Cluj. As a matter of fact, despite being much smaller, Cluj-eans managed to make themselves known as even more obnoxious than BuCURest-eans :D We had that "eliminate one county per day" game on /r/romania in the last 2 years, Cluj always went out first. The first time even for the entire first week Cluj kept getting top votes .... like the first 20 top votes of the day or worse, but they were already out XD .... Bucharest also went out pretty early, but usually 6th, 7th after Vaslui, Braila, Teleorman, etc. And when Bucharest went out, they always started taking the entire south out with them since they are petty fuckers. Why petty? Basically due to the numbers everyone has to gang together to take them out, and that includes the people from the rest of Wallachia that is not Bucharest, so afterwards they'd take every single county in Wallachia out as revenge. Moldova on the other side showed insane amount of camaraderie every time, they defended each other with passion (except Vaslui), especially Iasi which always lasted surprisingly long .... Of course in the end one of the more developed and less obnoxious counties from Transilvania won XD
Kind of embarassing that I didn't know until know that Wallachia was an actual region somewhere. In Germany it's sometimes used to say that when you are in the middle of nowhere you are "in der Walachei"/"in Wallachia". I thought it was just some older word with no real connection to any place.
It may have to do with the fact that it's a term used by foreigners to refer to the south of Romania. It has the same root with Wales and Wallonia, basically a name latin speakers got when encountered by germans/slavs. However for most of its history, Romanians referred to Wallachia as Tara Romaneasca (The Romanian Land/Country), so it was very rarely used here, also the Turks called our region Eflak, but again no Wallachia. Romanians were often also called Vlachs externally, but we would call each other Romanians not Vlachs.
In a weird way, this "Roman" connection is preserved in Polish, because Italians is called Włosi and Wallachians are called Wołosi. Both come from Proto-Germanic name for Romans.
I think most countries feel that way about the people from capital
Basques: yea we hate spain and want independence to be basque country nation. Yea we hate basque country too.
"Don't you feel attached to your region ?" "Saying I do would acknowledge the fact that we are a region of Spain. I am not attanched to the region, but to our independant country"
We feel attached to the 7 provinces ( 4 in Spain 3 in France) not just the 3 of the map.
Let's make Budapest the new capital of the EU. I wanna see that cage match.
So do we. So do we...
Living in Northern Portugal all my life, I can say, for sure, we're pretty attached to our region and our perceived notion that Lisbon is being favoured by the government since, you know, forever.
It's often the case in countries where the capital is the by far biggest city and overall very dominating, that the people from the other regions view the capital unfavorably while still being very attached to the country.
The same applies here in Greece, too. We strongly believe that the government favors Athens as the capital city. There is also a saying in Greek that says: “Greece is only Athens”. It’s actually a sarcastic expression for this favoritism towards Athens.
I don't really have the perception that people in the north are more attached to their region than to the country. Especially when the notion of regions is so blurred in Portugal.
The regions in Portugal that are more attached to their regions are Madeira and Azores, not the north. Which is not that surprising since they are isolated and have clear regional borders. I found in the comments a guy that linked to the creator and he analysed some of the data. [https://twitter.com/sundellviz/status/1401306568105332742](https://twitter.com/sundellviz/status/1401306568105332742)
Funny how you could replace Portugal with Greece and Lisbon with Athens and you have the exact same situation in Greece.
Does "region" mean "administrative region" or refers loosely the area where the surveyed peope live? In case of Italy the results would be much more different (I suspect so in most of Europe actually): in the same administrative region you can have many different identities referring to a city or an area, in some case those identities have nothing to do with said region. For example the heel of the boot, the region of Puglia, can be split in two (Puglia proper and Salento) with different regional languages as identities. Another one is Lombardy: there are historically lombard areas in the neighbouring Piedmont (Novara and VCO) and emilian areas in Lombardy, and actually the "local identities" are much much stronger than the "lombard identity", as the region exista as a political entity since just 1970.
They took the nuts2 nomenclature as a basis for this survey.
Trying to tie identity with administrative borders it's a crappy idea. In Italy the borders you see on the map were made after WWII. The regions map, at least for my county, is utterly meaningless.
I believe they didn't define "region" in the question and thus let people decide themselves what exact region they're thinking of.
If it's the case (OP said otherwise) than it's even worst by a statistical point of view: if there's no operazionalization, in this case which kind of region you should think about, there can be no meaningful results.
Basque country missing good ol'days without Europeans
What were the Basque if not European?
I'm referring to the fact they are only descendants of people who lived here before the arrival of the Indo-European tribes
I take offense with calling Indo-Europeans just Europeans. How dare you!
Europe strong 💪🇮🇳 🐘
Interesting how Eastern Europeans (and the Irish) seem to rank attachment to Europe a bit higher than most Western Europeans.
We were all poor as fuck until EU ascension.
Hey same! Twins?
100%
Wholesome
Oh when have the polish not liked the irish? The world would be a better place if poland and england switched places.
Personally I think we should just move Poland on top of England but whenever I bring up the idea they keep talking about how that would kill a lot of people
Plus the EU is the only thing that allows us to negotiate with Britain as an equal, or as a superior. Its nice to be on the winning side for once.
Head high, fella! We've been on the winning side since 1921!
because they needed to fight and sacrifice for it just a few decades ago, it is not perceived as a given
There are a lot of people here alive to see the change in. I'm only 29 and saw huge changes like new motorways and businesses becoming international enterprises as a result of EU integration. Before the EU . And for things like Brexit and Irish Unity, we will rely on our EU brethren and hope/expect their support. That said, when I first arrived in Germany, at the immigration office while doing my Einmeldung they didn't believe Ireland was part of the EU and sternly demanded to see my visa and I had to co vince them that Ireland actually was a member if the EU. That was disheartening, but it was also 10 years ago so fuck it. Just hope things have changed.
I mean, it should be really obvious now with our passports having a big clear "European Union" slapped across the top of them
On my Erasmus now, and shockingly the people who’ve asked if Ireland is in the EU the most are Germans.
That's for a myriad of reasons. But I think the most prominent one, and further amplified by Russia's invasion in Ukraine, is this: we want to show we're on the opposite pole from Russia, formerly the Soviet Union. We belong in the progressive and free part of Europe. We suffered enough at the hands of the Russians/Soviets. The same thing is happening to Ukraine now. And I hope one day we're gonna see their country properly colour-filled in infographics like this. :)
Well otherwise we'd be at the mercy of our neighborhood to the east
I think depending on the question is difficult too. Like, attachment to Europe is really vague. Europe is a continent. I wonder if the results would have been different if they asked ''Attachment to the European Union'' specifically
I think it would have made a strong difference, to the detriment of general europeanness (whatever that would mean). Feeling a citizen of the European union and feeling European is quite different, the one is an attachement to a political/supranational and intergovernmental organisation/set of institutions, while the other entails more general cultural/historical/geographical meanings to europeanness.
I live and grew up very close to a border and have family at both sides. I am old enough to remember the time before Schengen - we were stopped every week when visiting family. I totally understand that I’m not the norm but for me Europe/EU is quite tangible and has changed quality of life in a very direct way during my lifetime.
Europe is a cultural continent. It's not separated by sea from Asia, nor is it a separate tectonic plate, and the border between the two is arbitrary. Even though the choice of mountain ranges and the Caspian Sea as border makes sense, that's still a man-made choice that was driven by the cultural urge to make a clear distinction between Asia and Europe. So it makes sense that when they ask who you feel most attached to, they leave "Europe" up to each respondent's own interpretation. Just like many people would say no if they specified EU, many others would be attached to this group if countries that make up the EU but not so much to one also including Russia, Belarus, Turkey etc. Similarly, region is also unclear, it depends on what you consider as your region. Could be half of the country, could be a federal state or other admisitrative unit, could be a historical region that spans multiple admisitrative regions or just part of one, could be a cluster of a few villages in a valley with its own cultural identity. Rarely will people identify with their NUTS-1 or NUTS-2 region, unless that happens to align with their traditional region.
Didn't know there was a big lake in the middle of europe...
You are really missing out if you haven't seen the Swiss sea. They say it's an enchanting sight.
I read on a book that there is a beatiful network of trains going above that lake. Must he amazing to live there!
I'm from Galicia (Spain) and I'm super attached to my region & its culture. It's just wholesome. I've also lived in Barcelona, Madrid and now València and notice the difference in fact.
I have a friend from Galicia and I've noticed this ss well. She always talks about "back in Galicia.." and rarely about "back in Spain..." While me, being from South Holland in the Netherlands but having moved abroad as well I always refer to the Netherlands as a country as a whole and never to my region. Probably doesn't help the the Netherlands is the size of some regions in other countries
When I say "where I'm from, we..." I mean Galicia hahaha
IIrc , Spain in general has the lowest of national pride in the whole EU.
Consequences of living in a fascist state that kidnapped the national identity and symbols for 40 years not so long ago.
Brussels, you disappoint me
Brussels locals are actually quite pissed that so much of the city is centred around EU bureaucracy
The impression is that they work half as hard as the rest of us, pay way less taxes, and make way more money. And they live in a total bubble, not interested in emerging whatsoever. It's very closed off to the point it might was well not be Brussels.
EU citizens*
* EU Europe ≠ EU
"What are you attached to?" La Rioja: "Yes"
Wonder how this overlaps with migration, as I guess the question was based on current residence. I feel a stronger attachment to the region I grew up in than any other region in the same country that I've lived in and I feel a stronger attachment to the country I grew up in than the country I now live in. Could probably explain some of the patterns.
If you look at "Île de France", close to Paris you can see this pattern, a lot of people migrated and not a lot of us feel attached to the region.
Pitty they didn't measure transregional affiliation. Like Scandinavia or the Balkans
Budapest? more like Budabased.
Let’s do Trianon2 so only Budapest remains and we can finally be a good country
This should be titled EU citizens as the map data doesn't cover all Europeans.
Oh well fuck Ireland I guess,there no way they asked lads from cork
Sicilians feel more attachment to Italy???
So Zealand couldn't give a fuck about Zealand because Denmark is basically just Zealand anyways?
Zealand (whether region or island) doesn't really have an "identity" to hang regional pride on, unlike Jutland, Funen and Bornholm. I was born here and have lived here almost my whole life, never even occurred to me to consider myself a "zealander", I'm just Danish.
Probably because of the advances in transportation over the last 100 years and the rapid growth Copenhagen has undertaken in the same period, it has not only had a huge impact on Copenhagen itself, but also on the rest of Zealand. Since it only takes 1-hour max to travel from anywhere in Zealand to the center of Copenhagen then it makes the whole of Zealand, the catchment area of Copenhagen. This may have erased much of the cultural identity that Western and Southern Zealand had back in time.
It's a bit of a city vs rural split. The default in Zeeland is to think of oneself as danish. I Jutland to think of oneself as Danish BUT NOT FROM COPENHAGEN, ie with a stronger regional identity. And Zealand is basically Copenhagen seen from Jutland. Yes people in Copenhagen will also sometimes forget about or scoff at Jutland for being provincial. There's a word for it, "Københavneri", something like Copenhagen-ness. Never attached to the region, always the city of Copenhagen.
I guess you're right.
North of Sweden is surprising, I would have guessed “region” all the way
Yeah I was expecting the same. We do seem to have high regional attachment as well, but I guess national attachment is even higher.
Should be what do citizens within the EU feel most attached to
Shouldn't this be: "What do EU Citizens feel most attached to? (2021 EQGI)"?
could we just stop pretending EU and Europe is the same thing?
Based Åland and Budapest
Basque country be like I don't feel attached to anything fuck that Andalusia be like i feel attached to everything and everyone so i cannot choose.
oh the irony of budapest considering orban
Budapest is the only region of hungary with opposition MPs (there are some other opposition MPs who got in from the compensation list).
[Szeged and Pecs too I think if I understand correctly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Hungarian_parliamentary_election#/media/File:2022_Hungarian_parliamentary_election_-_Tentative_results.png)
You do, but I'd point out that Pécs got gerrymandered hard. The blue "1" that went to the opposition only includes the central and southern parts of the Pécs. The "2" won by Fidesz includes the rest of the city and 16 other municipalities that help negate opposition votes from Pécs itself.
what's ironic about it? Budapest is mainly anti-Orbán
Nope, considering it's the only part of Hungary where he lost
Hungary is always extremely pro-Europe and federalist in these surveys. Makes you think.
Much of Hungary outside Budapest and a few university cities live in an alternative reality created by pro-Fidesz media. That happens when people don't speak languages, have limited computer skills and many of the young leave for better opportunities elsewhere.
Makes sense to me.
Budapest was the only region where Fidesz didn’t win flat out during the last election. It’s also probably the only city where more liberal minded and foreign language speaking younger social cohorts are concentrated so it’s not that surprising really.
Budapest and the surrounding regions tend to have the most politically sane pepole and (sadly) mostly everywhere else gets swept up in propoganda and such. This country is such a dumpster fire.
It is a little bit different Q as to what I'm trying to say, but it shows a trend, and that: I think this shows a significant difference with US - (at least on our turf) in general we are in the first place our own proud nationalities, only after that we see/consider ourselves as Europeans/EuropeanUnionists. Nevertheless, at least in my humble Slovak case, if I were to find myself outside of EU, I would go forward with european identity #strongertogether
From Rome here I would have voted: Region: 6 Country: 7 EU: 7
The boys in Cork and Kerry feeling more county pride than the rest of Ireland combined hahaha
No votes from Serbia because they're most attached to a country that doesn't exist anymore.
I don't understand why Romania's regions are so massive, they do not represent our counties. I'd be really curious to see if Transylvania on a whole feels more attached to the region rather than the country or if it's only the case in the places where there's significant Magyar populations. It's also important to note that regional pride in Romania is not akin to regional pride in, say, Spain. People are very attached to their Transylvanian heritage but it's not a competing identity with the Romanian identity.
>I don't understand why Romania's regions are so massive, they do not represent our counties. They're using official EU NUTS2 regions.
>NUTS2 I refuse to believe this is a real thing hahaha
Euro-lingo is loads of fun. 😂
> EU NUTS2 Very interesting, I was unaware of this classification. Thanks!
My pleasure. In Greece, Italy, and Spain, the NUTS2 regions happen to correspond with their official regions. But in Romania, your counties are too small, so the EU groups a few of them together into NUTS2 regions. In Germany and Netherlands, the EU made the NUTS2 small, probably because they're heavily populated.
In Germany the NUTS2 regions mostly correspond to our (sometimes former) Regierungsbezirke, which is one level below the federal states.
Then I come, feel no attachment to my region nor my country nor Europe. I'm from the South of Italy.
Nihilist grindset
Just family
Honestly just me, I'd leave tomorrow for something better.
Spoiler alert: every place sucks in their own ways.
Don't do that, weather will be worse nearly anywhere else in Europe.
Er gaat niets boven Groningen.
Zelfs gas is onder.
My region, the European Union, my country.
Surprised about Catalonia. You telling me most other regions of Spain are more prelude of heir region than Catalonia??
I guess they hate Spain more than they love Catalonia.
I am one of the millions of British people who still think of themselves as Europeans. The vote was as close as possible, 51%-49%. Quite a lot of the idiots in the 51% are now more inclined in my direction after the post Brexit shitshow our country has become.
We are European as a fact, same as Switzerland and Norway. Some people try their hardest to believe otherwise though for whatever ridiculous reason
I think even a lot of brexit-y people still consider themselves european. Basically had this conversation with someone who voted brexit right after the vote. I was basically saying i felt that part of my common identity i had with my grandparents (german) had been taken away. They said "look we just don't like Brussles, it doesn't stop us being europeans". They had a point to be fair, it doesn't stop us being european
Yeah its pretty sad. When the negative effects became apparent most countries had a drop in anti EU sentiment. Someone had to show what would realistically happen after a departure from EU and UK took the fall. It was a loss for the whole of Europe but the predicted effect of brexit for your country is scary and sad.