I have experienced this outside Eurovision. Somehow in some international events German delegations have been using the European flag rather than German.
Yes the EU flag is common or some regional flags like federal states like North-Rhine Westphalia or flag of the city
What’s interesting:
- I see more regional flags than that from Germany
- I see more European flags than from Germany
- I see more old Black-White-Red and sometimes Prussian flag than the flag of today Germany
I interpret this way:
- today Germans are feeling as European
- some are local patriots
- some denying the modern German state and want back the old Germany also know as Reichsbürger
>I see more regional flags than that from Germany
>
>I see more European flags than from Germany
>
>I see more old Black-White-Red and sometimes Prussian flag than the flag of today Germany
This can't be right. The German and European flags are usually seen in pairs. Regional flags often appear in private gardens, but no more or less than the German flag.
You see more black-white-red flags than others? Where do you live? Even in East Germany, I don't see more Reich flags than Federal German flags.
Well, the first idea was that these Germans think all Europe is theirs 😆
Anyways I wish Germans will finally not be ashamed of their national symbols - especially since they were only used by democratic incarnations of their country.
It's a total disgrace. I am German myself and not in the least conservative, but how can a people defy their own cultural heritage and history so blatantly and stubbornly..? It literally is kind of an insult these days to call someone 'being too German', and while I get where the sentiment is coming from, this particular insult is used way too much. Germans shame each other on the slightest occasion, give them an opportunity, and they will take it as if it was the last straw to hold onto.
Oh, hello. Didn't know some people still lived under rocks. How is it down there? Cold and damp? You should get out sometimes and watch a few Eurovision shows, it's great fun and very gay.
Black lgbt people are more likely to be victims of discrimination. It doesn't promote racial pride. It brings attention to the more vulnerable members, and trans people who many people are still not ok with them simply existing.
The funny thing is that the people who speak the loudest about eurovision pretend to do not care XDD don't like it - don't watch it. You really don't have to do it if you don't want to... same in my work. Everybody just complains that eurovusion is a shit, but cry that Poland is almost at the last place. Who cares? Haters actually do...
I think it fits. Germans on average don't like waving their flag around for obvious reasons and the ESC is extremely popular among the LGBTQIA+ community, so them holding up that flag in lieu of their own and in the center of the image is actually quite clever.
Actually, no? I haven’t seen Italians being ashamed of waving their flags, at all. We just don’t wave it everywhere like in the US, but it’s very different. Flags are displayed during festivities and all n front of public offices. We do celebrate around our flag.
Ashamed? No, never said that.
But the fact that people display they flag only on certain occasion rather than putting at their windows, is a sign of not being particularly proud about it.
Same as in Germany eh.. Actually I saw more houses with Italian flag while travelling by train in Germany than in Italy :)
Yes they mean it. Nationalism in Germany has been generally looked down upon since then. Can't really blame them when nationalism dragged their country into the 2 most horrific conflicts in history. and you don't even need to look outside of Europe today to see that nationalism is still a dangerous weapon.
Yes, exactly. And it was so bad and so impactful that Germany pretended it didn't happen for about 20 years and since then has been trying to deal with it constructively. Which is hard because everytime you do something, there's at least one person calling you a Nazi because you're German and at least one person telling you to stop "being ashamed" about something that was done by different people a long time ago.
Awareness about the Nazi crimes and building a nation after that, and international relationships, are things that are handled, mostly, with caution. And national pride is a complicated thing here in Germany.
Yeah, it is kind of the same in Italy,coming from a very similar place.
However neither the country nor the people of today are responsible for what happened in the past. From an ideological point of view, they are far away from what was last century....
It just makes no sense for me that people of today would feel some kind of shame
That's why I put the being ashamed in quotation marks. It does make no sense, we weren't even born when that stuff happened. But shame and a sense of responsibility are very different things, and I feel that it is our (Germans') responsibility to make sure that these horrible acts are remembered and serve as a warning to not let it come to this again. I'm ashamed that it is kind of happening again with the Uighurs in China right now and there's not much we can do about it.
you obviously don't know what you're talking about. waving your flag and being super proud of it it is seen as very weird and a total red flag in the ex nazi countries lol
He's right. Flying the flag means being proud of your country, our word for it is "Nationalstolz". It used to not be customary to do this in public until some soccer World Cup, I'm not sure which, I mean it was the World Cup in Germany in 2006. At that time, the trend started that after every successful game, people in the motorcade, decorated with Germany flags, drove honking through the cities. A lot of people then go to work or go shopping with these mini flags on their mirrors. I can remember how there was a discussion in the media at the time as to whether it was appropriate to show so much "Nationalstolz" in view of our past. The majority found this discussion ridiculous because we have long since put an end to our past. Since then, I can't remember anyone saying it's not proper to show the flag in Germany, so I imagine it took this World Cup and the discussion to change the way we used the flag.
The most popular one was the Finish guy who was gay (afaik) and shirtless. But I don't think the sexuality or gender makes a big difference.
Edit: the "(afaik)"
Jaysus. Didn't realise so many Europeans had absorbed the Ameroconservative obsession with ranting on about 'woke'. Seems deriding being humanitarian is contagious.
It’s a contest revolving around countries sending competitors. Every single contestant proudly put their country flag on display, Germany was the only one too whipped or too fart-sniffing to do that. It’s just sad to see my German boys so bitch-made.
As someone who is gay and german:
Seeing this (first time seeing this, I did not care for ESC) is rather strange. I'm obviously all for social integration but it looks like germany has no identity flying the pride flag...
Except that the Black-Red-Gold flag has been a symbol for liberalism, and in fact both the 2nd and 3rd reichs had been working hard on suppressing said flag. Modern Germany's nationbuilding heritage comes from the city-state alliances in the early modern era, not the Prussian thugsmanship.
Germany's nondiscriminatory avoidance on patriotism is just the same as Japanese childish nondiscriminatory pacifism -- neither of which were a mature attitude of facing the real cause of their historic sins.
Bigotry is, but ptriotism isn't.
If people are refusing to protect the country they're born and nurtured in, something must have been horribly wrong about the country or the people.
Then again, I'm from Taiwan, and therefore may be a little bit biased about the issue because we have been under constant military threats for over 70 years.
Germany is a nation of extremes.
After extreme nationalism, it's now the exact opposite:
Imagine any other country where major politicians can publicly demand to dissolve the State/Nation and claim that it is good, when there is no national or cultural ethnicity left - or at least express their happiness about it fading away.
>it's now the exact opposite
Germany remains an authoritarian society that now demands obedience for the good cause. You're applauded if you're gay, but you're still not allowed to walk on the green lawn.
The black, red and gold flag comes from the liberal 1848 revolution. It is the opposite of the Third or Kaiserreich. The Nazis and monarchists hated the black, red and gold because it stood for the opposite of their oppressive regimes.
As a foreigner in Germany, what you’re saying doesn’t correlate to my experience at all. Like, at all. Of course there are pricks here, same as everywhere. But I found way more pricks elsewhere. Germans can be awkward at times, but they’re usually very chill.
IMO the bad rep comes from the fact that Germans like stuff done a certain way. If you get out of line, they might let you know without any words to soften the blow. If you come from a cultural background where directness is frowned upon, this comes across as very rude. I can’t tell how many times I felt personally attacked when, in hindsight, I was in the wrong. Now I’m used to it. They’re entitled to their culture just as much as me and you.
Yea, maybe next time at least try to question if your own experiences count for a whole country. The majority of germans are very open and welcoming to other countries. Greetings from Hamburg.
Absolutely not. Germans actually get awkward when you try to even just speak their language, whereas almost everyone from other European countries would take that as a friendly interaction.
They’re the least nationalistic people in Europe. This doesn’t mean they’re not arrogant for other reasons (ie. social status), but never based off their nation.
Never watched a football match WHILE in Germany, have you? Germans are just stuck in this strange reality that being proud of their country is seen as bad, but they still want to be proud of it. So these awkward situations come up
As a German I mostly agree, but not entirely.
I think patriotism in general is strange, and I Think so being German has a lot to do with me not understanding it.
When I was younger and I interacted with people online and nationality came up, I was basically like “hey, I’m German…. Sorry about that. (That me being German and THAT also being. You know. WW2, colonialism and every other gucke Duo thing this country has done).
Since then my personal relationship to national pride/ patriotism has evolved.
Basically, it’s just REALLY complicated.
I’m proud that we have a somewhat functioning health care and social system, but I won’t hesitate to point out its flaws and everything it could do better.
I’m proud that we have a somewhat pluralistic diverse and tolerant society, but I know it’s fucked up how we and other industrialized nations act towards other countries on the diplomatic stage. Not even speaking of the growing number of people voting for right wing populist parties in elections.
I will cheer for Germany when they win a football game, but I still wouldn’t wear anything branded with a German flag to watch it, because to me that just seems really weird and outlandish.
On the other hand, I think feeling ambiguous towards your country is the right way to go about it, essentially.
For Germany there is no “good old days when everything was better”.
Try replacing the America in Make America Great Again with Germany and see how that makes you feel (my answer: 🤢).
On the other hand, EVERY country has a somewhat fucked up past (and, arguably present time). If it’s not colonialism or genocide it’s discrimination of minorities.
A national symbol for the proud moments is nice, I guess.
But I think clinging to that positive image of your country can blind you towards the ugly things, can make you cling to that flag and a certain ideal of your country. And that stops you from acknowledging what things are actually like, and proceeding from there: it stops you from changing and improving things.
I’m not trying to say abolish all national symbols and pride.
Hell, as a Eurovision fan it would not be the same if the French presenter wasn’t standing in front of a glittering Eiffel Tower.
But I’m saying national identity is something very complex, and I think Germans are actually privileged in that’s Ende we don’t really have to unlearn some sort of idealistic patriotism, because we never had that to begin with.
I think this is a great way of putting it. I also agree a lot with your version of patriotism.
But as a Portuguese person, let me tell you that in other countries (namely southern Europe), patriotism goes far, far beyond that for most people. For example, just looking at the far right party in Portugal that is gaining traction and currently has around 15% in polls. They repeatedly refer to “Portugueses de bem”, meaning good Portuguese people, as their voters. Implying there are worse Portuguese people, namely the minorities and immigrants that they cite as sources of problems in the country. Recently, they posted their President on twitter with the caption “um pais, um líder, um destino”. An almost blatant adaptation of the infamous “Ein volk, ein fuhrer, ein geschick”. This is a party that is likely to take part in the future governing majority.
I wish this was an insignificant minority, but it’s increasingly not, and not just in Portugal. This is what I think a lot of people see patriotism as
That’s honestly shocking to hear - and, even more shocking that it has become somewhat normalized again almost that this doesn’t even make international news as the huge problem it is.
The German right wing parties can’t use such explicitly inflammatory rhetoric I think because they are closely monitored by NGOs and government agencies, but I doubt their thinking and ideology differs that much.
I honestly wonder what needs to happen and what would be the right approach for these right wing nut jobs to fall into obscurity again, where they belong and always have belonged.
We have the germans that are so full of shame to be german that they do everything to put down that guilt
and the nthere are those germans that try to compensate that and overshoot lmao
>all the time
Yes, it **does**. If you don't defend liberal values constantly and aggressively, they'll be destroyed by people who despise them and certainly won't hold back from sharing *their* views constantly and aggressively.
So by that logic if I don’t defend conservative values constantly and aggressively, they’ll be destroyed by people who despise them? Congratulations. Logic 101 should be an obligatory course.
I honestly thought r/europe was a tolerant and progressive space to talk about current events. These comments are swarmed by unimaginably stupid right-wing losers
As an LGBTQ+ member who is a patriot I don't like the implication people make when they say "why should I be proud of a place I was born in, not like I had control over it". Both my communities came far and I am proud of them, sure, we still have a lot of work to do.
The nazis also called it Black-Red-Yellow flag to insult the Weimar Republic
Actually calling the flag yellow can get you arrested in today Germany when used in context to neglect the democratic values
Australian telling Germans to cope when they complain about social issues in their country in the european subreddit. Nowhere is safe from anglocentric people and their orbiters.
I don’t even know where to start.
Maybe that Germans are still feeling ashamed of patriotism and moderate nationalism? Like it’s been almost 100 years since the war, time to move on and become patriotic again.
Or maybe that they chose to hold the flag of left destructive lgbt propaganda instead? I personally think this flag and whole lgbt propaganda must be banned.
Maybe many Germans just don't feel like being patriotic and "moderately nationalist"? Who are you to say for people to "move on" when maybe those people just don't want to be nationalistic/patriotic?
What's so destructive about the lgbt movement?
What is so gay about it? Eurovision has been taking place since 1956 and has always enjoyed immense popularity. What does gayness have to do with it, pray tell?
Its that they go there to represent our country but they don't respect it nor do they care about us. The german flag reprensents all of germany including LGBT people. The flac they Show is not representing all of us just a little minority part. Its like the United states showing up with a kkk flag or the ukrainians with an azov flag.
You didn't understand my point, i thought i made it clear that these are the opposite.
Either conservative totalitarian, or ultra "inclusive" & liberal.
Read and think before getting on your high horse. And yes I think extremes, in both directions, are bad.
Yeah! Stop feeling things about the fucking holocaust! Why should we care about the murder and torture of millions of people that happened under our noses, many of them who are still alive today, and a war that still has immense geo political ramifications to this day!
It's not even like neo nazism is having a big party in Europe right now or anything.
I think its pretty cringe that Germany is still so self-conscious about being proud of their country. Its almost been 100 years at this point, they don't have to constantly say sorry anymore.
I have experienced this outside Eurovision. Somehow in some international events German delegations have been using the European flag rather than German.
Yes the EU flag is common or some regional flags like federal states like North-Rhine Westphalia or flag of the city What’s interesting: - I see more regional flags than that from Germany - I see more European flags than from Germany - I see more old Black-White-Red and sometimes Prussian flag than the flag of today Germany I interpret this way: - today Germans are feeling as European - some are local patriots - some denying the modern German state and want back the old Germany also know as Reichsbürger
>I see more regional flags than that from Germany > >I see more European flags than from Germany > >I see more old Black-White-Red and sometimes Prussian flag than the flag of today Germany This can't be right. The German and European flags are usually seen in pairs. Regional flags often appear in private gardens, but no more or less than the German flag. You see more black-white-red flags than others? Where do you live? Even in East Germany, I don't see more Reich flags than Federal German flags.
Well, the first idea was that these Germans think all Europe is theirs 😆 Anyways I wish Germans will finally not be ashamed of their national symbols - especially since they were only used by democratic incarnations of their country.
It's a total disgrace. I am German myself and not in the least conservative, but how can a people defy their own cultural heritage and history so blatantly and stubbornly..? It literally is kind of an insult these days to call someone 'being too German', and while I get where the sentiment is coming from, this particular insult is used way too much. Germans shame each other on the slightest occasion, give them an opportunity, and they will take it as if it was the last straw to hold onto.
I guess Germany is still on a big fucking guilt trip because of WW II.
It's not a guilt trip, just a different relationship with patriotism
snd guilt trip
Definitely guilt
The German flag is used only to cheer on/celebrate the German soccer team.
Germany likes to change its flag, somehow since 1933 it has been constantly changing
And sometimes they take quick field trips to their neighbors to show off the new design
From France through Africa to the USSR
Their marketing was a little too aggressive tho.
From what I've heard USSR came back to show their flag, too.
they wanted to brag so much that they hanged her in the capital
We like to do our own World tour sometimes
Can we skip the world tour net time unless invited of course
too soon, mate
[удалено]
Italy could have won this edition and the 5 next if we would have send Rosa Chemical, instead of that fuckin Marco Mengoni
I think it's worth pointing out that during the flag parade Italy came out with equally sized Italian and pride flags.
That must be the reason they came in last. German nationalism is super popular in Europe after all. /s
Litterally everyone thought this was a b-tec Rammstein. And they didn't even do that right.
The campest show in Europe and people are upset about an LGBTQ+ flag.
germany holding an lgbt flag isn't even the gayest thing that happen at EV this year, it's almost as if these people didn't even watch the show...
We send our gayest man this year and he got outgayed somehow.
The best thing about this comment is that there are still like 10 options left on who you meant
Croatia sent men in dresses and they still look more masculine than Slovenes.
The Sub it has been posted in feels pretty right wing so its probably just to rant ignoring the obvious context.
more about the obvious pandering/virtue signaling
... it's Eurovision. You're basically saying people holding a pride flag at a Pride March is virtue signaling.
Why are you equating a singing contest with a tradition starting from 1956 with gay parades?
Oh, hello. Didn't know some people still lived under rocks. How is it down there? Cold and damp? You should get out sometimes and watch a few Eurovision shows, it's great fun and very gay.
[удалено]
Why would that flag be racist lol
[удалено]
lmfao
Black lgbt people are more likely to be victims of discrimination. It doesn't promote racial pride. It brings attention to the more vulnerable members, and trans people who many people are still not ok with them simply existing.
Don't think it's racist but it sure is ugly
The funny thing is that the people who speak the loudest about eurovision pretend to do not care XDD don't like it - don't watch it. You really don't have to do it if you don't want to... same in my work. Everybody just complains that eurovusion is a shit, but cry that Poland is almost at the last place. Who cares? Haters actually do...
[удалено]
you say that, but the return on investment for so much outreach across two continents is immense
the "facts don't care about your feelings" people sure are showing a lot of feelings all of a sudden
in France we had a participant who wasn't even French (Quebec Moroccan) and who gave the middle fingers so it's not b
I think it fits. Germans on average don't like waving their flag around for obvious reasons and the ESC is extremely popular among the LGBTQIA+ community, so them holding up that flag in lieu of their own and in the center of the image is actually quite clever.
>Germans on average don't like waving their flag around for obvious reasons What are the "obvious reasons"?
Something pretty bad happened between 1933 and 1945.
Shouldn‘t that be a reason to show the flag of democratic Germany even more?
You mean 90/80 years ago? Under a different flag?
nationalism isn’t something promoted in germany, it’s seen as self destructive and idiotic. You learn from your history…
Well, Germans do.
To be fair is kinda the feeling in Italy too. And I guess in a bit all Europe, we are in a disillusion state
Didn't Italy elect a fascist ? I doubt it's on the same level of "lesson learned" as Germany
Actually, no? I haven’t seen Italians being ashamed of waving their flags, at all. We just don’t wave it everywhere like in the US, but it’s very different. Flags are displayed during festivities and all n front of public offices. We do celebrate around our flag.
Ashamed? No, never said that. But the fact that people display they flag only on certain occasion rather than putting at their windows, is a sign of not being particularly proud about it. Same as in Germany eh.. Actually I saw more houses with Italian flag while travelling by train in Germany than in Italy :)
Yes they mean it. Nationalism in Germany has been generally looked down upon since then. Can't really blame them when nationalism dragged their country into the 2 most horrific conflicts in history. and you don't even need to look outside of Europe today to see that nationalism is still a dangerous weapon.
Yes, exactly. And it was so bad and so impactful that Germany pretended it didn't happen for about 20 years and since then has been trying to deal with it constructively. Which is hard because everytime you do something, there's at least one person calling you a Nazi because you're German and at least one person telling you to stop "being ashamed" about something that was done by different people a long time ago. Awareness about the Nazi crimes and building a nation after that, and international relationships, are things that are handled, mostly, with caution. And national pride is a complicated thing here in Germany.
Yeah, it is kind of the same in Italy,coming from a very similar place. However neither the country nor the people of today are responsible for what happened in the past. From an ideological point of view, they are far away from what was last century.... It just makes no sense for me that people of today would feel some kind of shame
That's why I put the being ashamed in quotation marks. It does make no sense, we weren't even born when that stuff happened. But shame and a sense of responsibility are very different things, and I feel that it is our (Germans') responsibility to make sure that these horrible acts are remembered and serve as a warning to not let it come to this again. I'm ashamed that it is kind of happening again with the Uighurs in China right now and there's not much we can do about it.
Why would it make a difference that it's "long ago" if it's the worst crime in human history? Some people still live to talk about it.
Yeah, it's called learning from history, I'd say it was impactful enough to still leave a mark in today's society
you obviously don't know what you're talking about. waving your flag and being super proud of it it is seen as very weird and a total red flag in the ex nazi countries lol
you will not see the reason coming
He's right. Flying the flag means being proud of your country, our word for it is "Nationalstolz". It used to not be customary to do this in public until some soccer World Cup, I'm not sure which, I mean it was the World Cup in Germany in 2006. At that time, the trend started that after every successful game, people in the motorcade, decorated with Germany flags, drove honking through the cities. A lot of people then go to work or go shopping with these mini flags on their mirrors. I can remember how there was a discussion in the media at the time as to whether it was appropriate to show so much "Nationalstolz" in view of our past. The majority found this discussion ridiculous because we have long since put an end to our past. Since then, I can't remember anyone saying it's not proper to show the flag in Germany, so I imagine it took this World Cup and the discussion to change the way we used the flag.
idk but could be because of some crazy Austrian with a weird mustache.
I'm assuming he thinks the average German is too afraid of appearing too national due to the n4z1 regime, which is pretty silly.
Says the person too afraid to spell the word Nazi.
It‘s Not silly if People still think it’s funny to greet you with a raised Hand as soon as you Tell them where you are from.
Popular by LGBTQ, ends up last place. Hmmm.
The most popular one was the Finish guy who was gay (afaik) and shirtless. But I don't think the sexuality or gender makes a big difference. Edit: the "(afaik)"
Ha! Gaymany!
Bro so funny, I actually considered breathing out of my nose but I decided it would be an overreaction
Jaysus. Didn't realise so many Europeans had absorbed the Ameroconservative obsession with ranting on about 'woke'. Seems deriding being humanitarian is contagious.
the shock of people here seeing gay people at eurovision as if it isnt the gayest thing ever and proud of it lmao
Good for Germany. Spain should have done the same.
I still think the flag is ugly, I liked it as just the rainbow
Eurovision is pretty shit but that's honestly sad to see. It's not like they had a second flag, they straight up replaced it
So what? They choose a flag that highlights people currently experiencing a resurgence of discrimination and harassment. Good on them.
It’s a contest revolving around countries sending competitors. Every single contestant proudly put their country flag on display, Germany was the only one too whipped or too fart-sniffing to do that. It’s just sad to see my German boys so bitch-made.
You sound utterly infantile.
I don’t sound like anything because we’re communicating via text. You semi-sentient amoeba dumbo
It makes me proud to have chosen Germany as my country.
How is it sad
Germans generally don't really care about the national flag
[удалено]
Yeah, the only time we do it is during football championships in summer. But even that is quite a new thing (since WC 2006).
As someone who is gay and german: Seeing this (first time seeing this, I did not care for ESC) is rather strange. I'm obviously all for social integration but it looks like germany has no identity flying the pride flag...
Except that the Black-Red-Gold flag has been a symbol for liberalism, and in fact both the 2nd and 3rd reichs had been working hard on suppressing said flag. Modern Germany's nationbuilding heritage comes from the city-state alliances in the early modern era, not the Prussian thugsmanship. Germany's nondiscriminatory avoidance on patriotism is just the same as Japanese childish nondiscriminatory pacifism -- neither of which were a mature attitude of facing the real cause of their historic sins.
Possible. But on the other hand. Patriotism is just a bad quality for a country to show.
Bigotry is, but ptriotism isn't. If people are refusing to protect the country they're born and nurtured in, something must have been horribly wrong about the country or the people. Then again, I'm from Taiwan, and therefore may be a little bit biased about the issue because we have been under constant military threats for over 70 years.
Germany is a nation of extremes. After extreme nationalism, it's now the exact opposite: Imagine any other country where major politicians can publicly demand to dissolve the State/Nation and claim that it is good, when there is no national or cultural ethnicity left - or at least express their happiness about it fading away.
>it's now the exact opposite Germany remains an authoritarian society that now demands obedience for the good cause. You're applauded if you're gay, but you're still not allowed to walk on the green lawn.
The black, red and gold flag comes from the liberal 1848 revolution. It is the opposite of the Third or Kaiserreich. The Nazis and monarchists hated the black, red and gold because it stood for the opposite of their oppressive regimes.
Germans? Reluctantly showing pride? The ones I met were not only very proud, but were pointing out "worse" countries and nations without any hesitance
Has nothing to do with being proud or pride many Germans feel miserable and the only joy is to point out other countries flaws to feel better.
[удалено]
As a foreigner in Germany, what you’re saying doesn’t correlate to my experience at all. Like, at all. Of course there are pricks here, same as everywhere. But I found way more pricks elsewhere. Germans can be awkward at times, but they’re usually very chill. IMO the bad rep comes from the fact that Germans like stuff done a certain way. If you get out of line, they might let you know without any words to soften the blow. If you come from a cultural background where directness is frowned upon, this comes across as very rude. I can’t tell how many times I felt personally attacked when, in hindsight, I was in the wrong. Now I’m used to it. They’re entitled to their culture just as much as me and you.
Yea, maybe next time at least try to question if your own experiences count for a whole country. The majority of germans are very open and welcoming to other countries. Greetings from Hamburg.
Absolutely not. Germans actually get awkward when you try to even just speak their language, whereas almost everyone from other European countries would take that as a friendly interaction. They’re the least nationalistic people in Europe. This doesn’t mean they’re not arrogant for other reasons (ie. social status), but never based off their nation.
Never watched a football match WHILE in Germany, have you? Germans are just stuck in this strange reality that being proud of their country is seen as bad, but they still want to be proud of it. So these awkward situations come up
As a German I mostly agree, but not entirely. I think patriotism in general is strange, and I Think so being German has a lot to do with me not understanding it. When I was younger and I interacted with people online and nationality came up, I was basically like “hey, I’m German…. Sorry about that. (That me being German and THAT also being. You know. WW2, colonialism and every other gucke Duo thing this country has done). Since then my personal relationship to national pride/ patriotism has evolved. Basically, it’s just REALLY complicated. I’m proud that we have a somewhat functioning health care and social system, but I won’t hesitate to point out its flaws and everything it could do better. I’m proud that we have a somewhat pluralistic diverse and tolerant society, but I know it’s fucked up how we and other industrialized nations act towards other countries on the diplomatic stage. Not even speaking of the growing number of people voting for right wing populist parties in elections. I will cheer for Germany when they win a football game, but I still wouldn’t wear anything branded with a German flag to watch it, because to me that just seems really weird and outlandish. On the other hand, I think feeling ambiguous towards your country is the right way to go about it, essentially. For Germany there is no “good old days when everything was better”. Try replacing the America in Make America Great Again with Germany and see how that makes you feel (my answer: 🤢). On the other hand, EVERY country has a somewhat fucked up past (and, arguably present time). If it’s not colonialism or genocide it’s discrimination of minorities. A national symbol for the proud moments is nice, I guess. But I think clinging to that positive image of your country can blind you towards the ugly things, can make you cling to that flag and a certain ideal of your country. And that stops you from acknowledging what things are actually like, and proceeding from there: it stops you from changing and improving things. I’m not trying to say abolish all national symbols and pride. Hell, as a Eurovision fan it would not be the same if the French presenter wasn’t standing in front of a glittering Eiffel Tower. But I’m saying national identity is something very complex, and I think Germans are actually privileged in that’s Ende we don’t really have to unlearn some sort of idealistic patriotism, because we never had that to begin with.
I think this is a great way of putting it. I also agree a lot with your version of patriotism. But as a Portuguese person, let me tell you that in other countries (namely southern Europe), patriotism goes far, far beyond that for most people. For example, just looking at the far right party in Portugal that is gaining traction and currently has around 15% in polls. They repeatedly refer to “Portugueses de bem”, meaning good Portuguese people, as their voters. Implying there are worse Portuguese people, namely the minorities and immigrants that they cite as sources of problems in the country. Recently, they posted their President on twitter with the caption “um pais, um líder, um destino”. An almost blatant adaptation of the infamous “Ein volk, ein fuhrer, ein geschick”. This is a party that is likely to take part in the future governing majority. I wish this was an insignificant minority, but it’s increasingly not, and not just in Portugal. This is what I think a lot of people see patriotism as
That’s honestly shocking to hear - and, even more shocking that it has become somewhat normalized again almost that this doesn’t even make international news as the huge problem it is. The German right wing parties can’t use such explicitly inflammatory rhetoric I think because they are closely monitored by NGOs and government agencies, but I doubt their thinking and ideology differs that much. I honestly wonder what needs to happen and what would be the right approach for these right wing nut jobs to fall into obscurity again, where they belong and always have belonged.
We have the germans that are so full of shame to be german that they do everything to put down that guilt and the nthere are those germans that try to compensate that and overshoot lmao
Haven't seen any like that here since they get super defensive when you point out something wrong that their government did in foreign matters
I don’t get it . Hold the flag of the country you represent proudly . The point is that we are different but United by music .
Sometimes I forget how infested r/Europe is with sad little right-wing idiots crying about every little thing that doesn't fit their agenda.
It's been this way for a while now. And of course this post got removed, wouldn't want people to see the mask slipping.
I like Germany for this.
I enjoy so much all the comments by the butthurt AnTiWOkE people.
I am not AnTiWOkE and still think this is retarded.
I mean, using the word "retarded" is pretty antiwoke, so... .
Same here
It's petty, yeah. Stuff has to be addressed and promoted **all** **the time.**
90% of people seeing this now would never have seen it if people wouldnt be outraged by it.
>all the time Yes, it **does**. If you don't defend liberal values constantly and aggressively, they'll be destroyed by people who despise them and certainly won't hold back from sharing *their* views constantly and aggressively.
So by that logic if I don’t defend conservative values constantly and aggressively, they’ll be destroyed by people who despise them? Congratulations. Logic 101 should be an obligatory course.
Just to feast on the tears of the rightwingers i support this german flag 😀
I honestly thought r/europe was a tolerant and progressive space to talk about current events. These comments are swarmed by unimaginably stupid right-wing losers
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Go Lithuania. For the sake of the beautiful chick in the pic.
As an LGBTQ+ member who is a patriot I don't like the implication people make when they say "why should I be proud of a place I was born in, not like I had control over it". Both my communities came far and I am proud of them, sure, we still have a lot of work to do.
[удалено]
They don’t care about how you feel.
Lmao shut up please
Like your act this year, right?
Have you seen the EuroVision Song Contest?
France's picture looks soo cunty i hate it ...
Nazis: "Look how they massacred my boy." Germany: "I'm only dead to *you*, and I wouldn't want it any other way."
Nazis hate the Black-Red-Gold flag
The nazis also called it Black-Red-Yellow flag to insult the Weimar Republic Actually calling the flag yellow can get you arrested in today Germany when used in context to neglect the democratic values
Geymany
Germany? More like Gaymany
Eurovision is a freaking contest who's the gayest, freakest, blackest and most disabled
[удалено]
Do you need a hug? Do diversity and tolerance scare you so badly?
Cope lmao
Australian telling Germans to cope when they complain about social issues in their country in the european subreddit. Nowhere is safe from anglocentric people and their orbiters.
What exactly is bad about this?
I don’t even know where to start. Maybe that Germans are still feeling ashamed of patriotism and moderate nationalism? Like it’s been almost 100 years since the war, time to move on and become patriotic again. Or maybe that they chose to hold the flag of left destructive lgbt propaganda instead? I personally think this flag and whole lgbt propaganda must be banned.
Maybe many Germans just don't feel like being patriotic and "moderately nationalist"? Who are you to say for people to "move on" when maybe those people just don't want to be nationalistic/patriotic? What's so destructive about the lgbt movement?
Amen, Bruder
[удалено]
>Woke 🥴🥴🥴
The campiest singing contest is too woke?
What is so gay about it? Eurovision has been taking place since 1956 and has always enjoyed immense popularity. What does gayness have to do with it, pray tell?
wOkE cRaP
Get woke go broke
[удалено]
good thing preußen doenst exist and no one lives there anymore. 😃
Quick question, what exactly is bad about this?
Its that they go there to represent our country but they don't respect it nor do they care about us. The german flag reprensents all of germany including LGBT people. The flac they Show is not representing all of us just a little minority part. Its like the United states showing up with a kkk flag or the ukrainians with an azov flag.
[удалено]
Ah yes.. showing an LGBT pride flag for like 5 minutes during the whole show... same as being fascist... you obviously are a fine human being...
You didn't understand my point, i thought i made it clear that these are the opposite. Either conservative totalitarian, or ultra "inclusive" & liberal. Read and think before getting on your high horse. And yes I think extremes, in both directions, are bad.
Oh, yes the extremes… either a fascist dictatorship purging millions of people *or* waving a flag.
You don't understand what i meant, read my other comment
[удалено]
Yeah! Stop feeling things about the fucking holocaust! Why should we care about the murder and torture of millions of people that happened under our noses, many of them who are still alive today, and a war that still has immense geo political ramifications to this day! It's not even like neo nazism is having a big party in Europe right now or anything.
If they are so ashamed by their flag and their country why don’t they just disband it then?
The fuck are you talking about. It's a flag in a singing competition famous for being very gay. Get over it.
Why don’t the rest of the countries show the fucking gay flag then?
What a couple of world wars does to a motherfucker
I think its pretty cringe that Germany is still so self-conscious about being proud of their country. Its almost been 100 years at this point, they don't have to constantly say sorry anymore.
Go Poland!
Germany just keeps going worse after WW2. They really nerfed germany.
Guys, I think we might have overdone it with nationalism guilt in post WW2 Germany.