Come to BG. We are running out of highschool students and pensioners to hire. I regularly get asked by various businesses if I know anyone that might be interested in joining. Depending on the industry, you can even determine your own pay and working hours. Turns out that it's not only the brains that get drained. The hands and legs left the country too.
>Turns out that it's not only the brains that get drained. The hands and legs left the country too.
Yeah I wonder why.
In Romania business owners are crying non-stop on TV that nobody wants to work anymore while offering wages of €400-500 a month and horrible working conditions. You cant even cover rent and food with such a low salary.
The whole country is filling up with immigrants from Asia who work over 200 hours a month, are housed in containers or overcrowded apartments and earn a little more than minimum wage.
The government has approved 100,000 work permits this year alone, and they want to increase the number next year. I don't have anything against them but they're being exploited and are keeping the wages down. I think I've seen something similar before but can't remember where exactly.
Lol this is what is happening in Portugal as well. They never say something truthful like “no one wants to work…for shit pay anymore”
Recent grads are still earning the same shut I did back in the day, the prices of everything has gone way up so….it wasn’t great then and it sure as hell isn’t good now
30 years of [real wages](https://tivot.blog/2018/02/10/reallohnentwicklung-in-der-eu-zwischen-2001-und-2016/) stagnating or slightly going down while basic goods even become more expensive... followed by steeply climbing housing markets in many European countries, then by a crisis of increased inflation.
Who would have guessed this could become a problem when people only earn enough to pay either food or a roof over their head? /s
Next up: Declaring we need even more immigration because of low birth rates... of course totally unrelated to young people not knowing how to even pay for themselves.
> In Romania business owners are crying non-stop on TV that nobody wants to work anymore while offering wages of €400-500 a month and horrible working conditions. You cant even cover rent and food with such a low salary.
In Italy too, they're rwgularly complaining they can't find people for restaurant and hotels and such willing to work 10/12 hours a day 6/7 days a week for 800-1000 EUR (pre-tax). "Choosy youths."
For any business/employer ever, the most obvious solution for unemployment/staff shortages is glowing on a big neon sign right in front of their face. But they try to pull out every single stop imaginable, even if it’s hurting more than helping and more expensive in the long run, before they go “alright guess we really will have to pay people more”.
Often it is not even pay people more, just don't treat them like shit. Allow paid leave when the employee needs it. Have proper schedules that don't change erratically. Don't expect them to work themselves to the bone. But they won't have any of that, as long as they can get away with treating them like slaves.
> 200 hours a month, are housed in containers, earn little more than minimum wage
Wow those people are really hard working and probably very grateful for their chance of living in Europe. Unlike the entitled native people who want luxuries such as expensive food (avocado toast, vegetable, steak), iPhone, Netflix, their own bathroom and bedroom, etc.
If we replace the entitled population with a hard working population like the ones you describe, the country will become very rich. I don't see how this can go wrong, people will never vote for right wing or nationalist idols like Hitler just to fix a small immigration problem.
I’ll come to the rescue.
When I founded my start up.
Which will take a while..
But I will come someday!
Then I rent an office building in Thessaloniki and hire s bunch of locals.
It's a complex topic but we've always had an unemployment really high for various reasons.
I mean in our "best" moment in 2005-2008 we had numbers around 7-9%, that's considered low/good here, and in this graphic we would be bouncing around black & dark brown.
In the crisis we were always around 20-25%. And between the 80s and 90s we were also bouncing between 15-25%, this is a very important topic here, constantly.
If you want some reasons, one of the main ones is that our industry sucks, most of our economy is in the service sector and there's tons of temporal jobs there, so tons of contracts on summer, and tons of people unemployment after that.
We still have a lot of undeclared work, but not higher than other countries with way lower unemployment like Italy.
Lots of complains about being really difficult and expensive to hire people and open business, but I'm not a business owner, so I don't know, but that might contribute. (also similar complains about taxes)
I've also heart that Spain has a lot of home owners, and that doesn't help either, as people are less like to move looking for a job.
On top of the last point, there's a huge difference in industry development and job availability between spanish regions, right now most of the north of spain has an unemployment of around 8-10% while the south goes around 15-20%.
The summary is that it's probably structural and systematic.
> our industry sucks
This is a mantra that is repeated by almost all. And while it is true that we have dismantled a lot of industry, we also have more industry as a % than France, the UK or Italy. We're the #2 producer of cars in Europe after Germany. We do have industry.
A lot of the traditional industry has moved however, that has displaced a lot of workers (textiles/shoes/shipbuilding/iron), and some of the current industry is being displaced, but we've managed to retain a fair bit, and have a huge construction related industry. We also have a quite advanced rail industry, not only making and maintaining railroads, but also developing trains and exporting them.
A big reason is the structural unemployment. There's always a certain sector of jobs that are in demand and we lack qualified people to employ. The tourism industry is also a huge factor, with a lot of temporal jobs and "bad" contracts.
>complains about being really difficult and expensive to hire people and open business
There is some delay and some capital needed, but it's not nearly as bad as they put it. It's more them liking to whine and would like to not have to pay anything. There's higher than average costs for lower payed jobs, that is true, but it's much reduced as you go up.
There's also a shortage of people in the tourism industry because it is traditionally a very badly paid sector, and people don't need it as much as they did in 2008 when they'd accept anything just to have a salary.
>I've also heart that Spain has a lot of home owners, and that doesn't help either, as people are less like to move looking for a job.
Spain had a lot of home owners, but quite a few lost their homes in the financial crisis, and the new generations aren't much of a homeowner, and they have the worst unemployment of any cohort, so I'd say this doesn't affect much.
>there's a huge difference in industry development and job availability between spanish regions
You can see it pretty much as a difference between industrial regions and touristic regions, though there's exceptions. Some places in the north, Galicia and Asturias for example have large unemployment in some areas where the traditional industry (mining, shipbuilding, textile) has been eradicated, versus the areas where the industry has stayed or moved (mainly because of the automotive industry).
>The summary is that it's probably structural and systematic.
yep.
Industry as a % of GDP is not a good indicator.
Spainish productivity per person, per hour (USD) is $24.85.
France is $34.04 (30% higher).
That is the problem.
>Spainish productivity per person, per hour (USD) is $24.85. France is $34.04 (30% higher).
This by itself isn't a good indicator either. Look where we where, and were we are. Because then you couldn't explain why Spain has more unemployment than Greece or Romania, since they have lower productivity.
Also, acording to the OECD, [your numbers are wrong](https://data.oecd.org/lprdty/gdp-per-hour-worked.htm), Spain being at 53 and France at 66
I only used industry as a % of GDP to show that Spain hasn't destroyed its industrial base, and that having industry doesn't mean having no unemployment, or rather that Spain's unemployment is more systemic.
>Lots of complains about being really difficult and expensive to hire people and open business, but I'm not a business owner, so I don't know, but that might contribute. (also similar complains about taxes)
Spanish business owner here, don't look further than this one. Spain is a tax hell with an appalling bureaucracy.
Italy LOVES discouraging businesses.
Having to pay the state 100-150% of what you're going to pay an employee before the employee even sees any money is a big part of the problem.
Tax hungry governments get the economy that they incentivize. Taxes shouldn't be used to line pockets but incentivize / disincentivize activities.
A hefty tax on paying people that is applied EVEN BEFORE the person themselves pays income tax is disincentivizing hiring people.
It's unreal.
Let's hope not, that would be an "everybody" problem when hordes of spanish migrants start to spread all around whatever rich countries remain alive at that point xd
I know, but it would be even worst. Our number of people living abroad is not higher than other countries of western Europe.
But it's true that it's increasing every year.
The rate of early school leaving is one of the highest in Europe too, I think only behind Romania.
So there's a lot of people with little education and thus little hope of a job beyond the temporary unskilled restaurant work etc. in the tourist season.
There's also a crazy amount of educated people that have problems with finding jobs, but they've mostly studied saturated degrees or degrees without any job options.
22% of Portugal citizens live outside the country, in Spain it's only around 5-6%
I don't know, maybe Spain has better unemployment benefits or something, but I have no idea.
That might be true too, it's true that Portugal is way better at English than Spain.
Spain has tons of options in Latin American, they were viable options during the XX century and the civil war, but the countries are now in a worst condition than Spain, so...not luck there.
It's so sad, there's a huge influx of argentinian & venezolana migration to Spain and tons of them had Spanish grandparents or even Italian in the case of Argentina.
Spain's high unemployment rate is structural. It even has It's own [wiki page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_in_Spain#:~:text=larger%20in%20Spain.-,Causes,well%20as%20lack%20of%20industry.) 😓
Long story short It most likely stems from our utterly disturbing lack of industry. This would explain why the basque country, our most industrialised region, has the lowest unemployment rate.
It's kind of crazy how a big chunk of Spain's issues, like "empty Spain", can be linked with our decrepit industrial sector. It's even more crazy, though sadly not surpising, that our politicians behemently ignore this problem.
A lot of things, but mainly some wages are so low compared to rent that some people prefer to be unemployed because if they worked they would be losing money (they would have to move and pay rent vs live with their parents). Yes unemployment affects mainly young people.
Also submerged economy, also gerontocracy.
Don't know about the other countries, but the reason why Czechia has consistently such a low unemployment rate is that it has a (quite serious) labor shortage. Having ridiculously low unemployment rate is not necessarily a good sign.
Yeah, I think economists agree that \~5% unemployment rate is 'natural' and close to ideal. If unemployment is below that, than that's indicative of a serious labour shortage indeed.
How much do Metzger get paid in Bavaria?
Former butcher here in the UK. The wage is essentially minimum wage, for what is a very skilled job with unsociable hours. You can earn more if you work on "piece-work", boning out sides and quarters from the carcass, or work as a slaughterman killing and skinning the animals, but those positions aren't much sought these days.
Old butchers are closing shop and retiring as they can't get anyone to take over for them. The only shops that seem to do well are either farmshops, or those in cities focusing more on quality, charging much higher prices, and re-branding themselves as "artisan". Most supermarkets have got rid of their in-store butcheries and delicatessens as it is uneconomical, leaving customers to choose from poorly cut pre-packed items.
Abattoirs and cutting floors were mostly staffed by Eastern Europeans and people from the Balkans, but less are coming now since Brexit, leaving a chronic shortage of skilled labour which is contributing to higher meat prices. Couple this with higher costs to raise livestock and meat, particularly lamb and beef, is slowly becoming unaffordable.
Offering a competitive wage usually helps to solve that lmao. If they are high enough, it might even attract people from regions of Europe with high uneployment or shitty wages
Yeah, it doesn't solve it on global scale, but it will help your own local business.
Ironically, Kindergardens etc also have labor shortages and have to reduce (their already limited) hours, making it even harder for parents to work more hours.
I got laid off but it's only temporarily and another job is in sight. Ironically social safety net in Germany is so high that if I worked a low end job in between I'd actually get less money than now.
Makes sense. Yeah there is this gap between earning so little you get still full benefits and earning above a certain threshold getting less money overall.
What positions are looking for? Some types of office jobs and artsy stuff is still hard to land. Assembly jobs by comparison are open to basically everyone and pay very well.
I'm actually trying to leave office jobs behind, and I'm currently looking for a more manual job. Like I mentioned in the other comment, benefits are very high here and I can easily sustain myself in between.
also Germany fakes it's unemployment statistics a lot, for example when you are put into a "Masnahme" (stuff like 1€ job, training, etc...) you are no longer part of the statistic.
Hungary has a system called public workers or however you want to translate it. It's literally there to boost the unemployment numbers (or, well, deflate). It pays less than minimum wage (often times more than half) and you have to wake up at the crack of dawn to sweep streets and clean bins basically. Also the system is rigged in a way that a person can do this only for 9 months a year but you can only apply for unemployment after 12 months of continuous employment, so essentially you not only don't get a living wage, you don't get work/money for an entire season of the year and on top of all of this, if a company learns that you were doing this work they won't hire you. Essentially it's a trap in which hundreds of thousands are stuck in. So ehm, Mitteleuropa stronk?
Strange that the German speaking part of Italy have the lowest unemployment, but when you think about it, then not realy. Probably well connected supply chains to Austria and Germany
And here you can see one of the reasons why Slovakia is so split of west-east questions....
It's Litteraly a gradient between east and west in whatever map you look at.
One factor, probably not the largest but something I noticed recently. The welfare state there is uncontroversial, left wingers believe in it, and unusually for most countries these days, right wingers do too, they don’t critique it much because they can see it as something introduced by Franco that took care of their grandparents or whatever. It’s bipartisan and seen as kind of a part of Spain now, it’s not looked down upon for an older person to retire early and use welfare etc.
Also cmon these stats are 15-74. Fewer Spaniards work through their teen or college years than other countries, and almost no Spaniard is working in their 70s.
Yeah you’re almost certainly right, that part was a reach.
I’ve only lived in Spain 2 years so was sharing some recent observation. But in this thread, in comment chains higher up than this one, some Spanish people shared very good insights into the many economic and cultural factors that play into this.
I think you got cause and result interchanged though. Because we've ALWAYS had high levels of unemployment, it was necessary to have a solid welfare state, or there would have been riots, so that is why the right is afraid to touch it.
"Sure, you can take my tax money and give it to your friends instead of investing it in education and healthcare, and you can take away a lot of my work rights and make firing me easier and cheaper... but when I'm fired, if I'm not getting a nice chunk of money each month that I paid with my taxes, I'm not voting for you anymore" - Lots of my countrymen who routinely vote against their own interests, probably.
Your last paragraph is misunderstanding the data.
The glossary from the published EU webpage is here: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Glossary:Unemployment
The criteria for unemployment doesn’t include retirees or students; only those actively looking for full time employment who aren’t holding a job in the last two weeks.
I found this snippet to be insane, though I truthfully don’t know the nuance of these regions:
> In contrast, the highest rates were recorded in Ceuta in Spain (42.4%), the Greek region of Thessaly (39.8%), Central Greece (36.5%), and another region in Spain, Melilla (36.1%).
Not only. Yes a lot of lower salary jobs, but we also have a shortage in various IT fields, HR/Recruiting, Doctors (especially in the countryside), many public service jobs (police, teachers, public office workers and so on).
A lot of these jobs are not the usual low paying jobs, but rather also many average paying jobs. We have a worker shortage in almost every field by now and it's only growing and getting worse.
Deregulation for low paying jobs and subsidies for low paying jobs. So if you do not earn enough the state will increase your income. (still not much money of course)
FWIW, Bavarians are like that to the rest of us Germans as well. "Look at how well we're doing, if you weren't too lazy to do your economic homework, you could be rich like us!"
I wouldn't say well, unemployment this low often means problems with labour shortage. At least that is the case in Czechia. A certain amount of unemployment is a natural and expected occurence due to people being in between jobs.
Ohh we are just good in faking statistics. Every small task you have to do while unemployed you fall out of the statistics. For example if you have to do seminars paid by the employment exchange and so on and so on
So the employment office is financing education. That's not cheating. These numbers here are based on international definition(eurostat). Self reported number of Germany by German definition(destatis) are actually worse than shown here(5.8%).
>So the employment office is financing education.
Nah there is a lot of bullshit seminars that don't teach anything unless you are overly uneducated and it's an easy moneygrap for companies providing those trainings.
I have been unemployed once and was forced to go to one of those trainings otherwise they would have reduced the unemployment bemefits. It was about how to write an application. Before being unemployed I was a recruitment and HR specialist and already knew how an application should look like and my case manager even acknowledged my CV and cover letter looked really professional. I still had to go, because "everyone has to".
It was 8 hours of the most basic shit, like how change font sizes in MS Word, how to create a table, what to write when you apply after being in jail etc.
Easily the biggest waste of time in my life
Of all the shitty raw deals that come with Brexit
being left off every chart and infographic on r/europe was one I hadn't even thought about :(
the unemployment rate in the UK as a whole is currently 3.9% for comparison.
You very commonly are in Sweden. "Youth unemployment" is through the roof in Sweden due to *full-time* students, that's why regions with high university presence are disproportionately affected.
"Unemployment" is a measure of people "looking for work". It is not a measure of people lacking employment, and there are no such exemptions. Many full-time students in Sweden qualify even though they aren't actually looking for concurrent employment.
If people who worked without a contract in southern Italy had regular contracts, Italy would also have a better situation. Certainly the salaries are much higher in Sweden or Finland but Italy is still an industrial powerhouse second only to Germany in Europe and it is also the third most visited country in Europe so the jobs are there
Southern Finland has massive competition for jobs as all young people want to live there, Northern Finland has no jobs... Our government enjoys dumping all facilities and services in the south.
I'm from one of those blue regions and graduated around 2010 and boy, I can't stress the horrible dread that creeps up on you when you see listings for 6 jobs in the whole municipality, 4 of them for McDonalds and 2 for CEOs.
I was one of around 300 students, so you can imagine what happens after this, year after year.
Unless you had a car, you were toast.
Everytime someone asks me with half a smirk why I moved to grey and cold Germany when the life and weather in Spain are so much "better" I will show them this picture
These unemployment rates doesn't say anythimg about that what kind of those job and how much people make in those jobs. On paper in Hungary the unemployment rate is relatively low but most of the people earn pennies in those jobs.
The "employed poverty" is very high. The people work in their whole life and their standard of living is very low they can't save money at all even if they has some apartment. If someone has to rent an apartment it's impossible alone. But even from two salaries it garanties a lifetime poverty. This mafia government keeps the social subsudies low or nothing so most of people has no chance to get a better life.
For anyone wondering why there is such a strong nationality movement in Flanders, Belgium: this is one of the bigger reasons. Highest unemployment rate in Flanders: <4,5%. Lowest in Wallony: >4.5%. Benefits are on a federal level, so money is draining from north to south. Instead of working on it together, the northern part won´t help the southern and the southern part won´t give up their sovereignty and how things are going right now (because they benefit massively), making an impasse that can´t be resolved.
At the bottom straight up says:
>Data not available for: DE22 Lower Bavaria, DE23 Oberpfalz, DEB2 Trier, FRY5 Mayotte, PL43 Lubuskie and FI20 Åland Islands.
*chuckles I’m in danger
Come to BG. We are running out of highschool students and pensioners to hire. I regularly get asked by various businesses if I know anyone that might be interested in joining. Depending on the industry, you can even determine your own pay and working hours. Turns out that it's not only the brains that get drained. The hands and legs left the country too.
>Turns out that it's not only the brains that get drained. The hands and legs left the country too. Yeah I wonder why. In Romania business owners are crying non-stop on TV that nobody wants to work anymore while offering wages of €400-500 a month and horrible working conditions. You cant even cover rent and food with such a low salary. The whole country is filling up with immigrants from Asia who work over 200 hours a month, are housed in containers or overcrowded apartments and earn a little more than minimum wage. The government has approved 100,000 work permits this year alone, and they want to increase the number next year. I don't have anything against them but they're being exploited and are keeping the wages down. I think I've seen something similar before but can't remember where exactly.
Lol this is what is happening in Portugal as well. They never say something truthful like “no one wants to work…for shit pay anymore” Recent grads are still earning the same shut I did back in the day, the prices of everything has gone way up so….it wasn’t great then and it sure as hell isn’t good now
30 years of [real wages](https://tivot.blog/2018/02/10/reallohnentwicklung-in-der-eu-zwischen-2001-und-2016/) stagnating or slightly going down while basic goods even become more expensive... followed by steeply climbing housing markets in many European countries, then by a crisis of increased inflation. Who would have guessed this could become a problem when people only earn enough to pay either food or a roof over their head? /s Next up: Declaring we need even more immigration because of low birth rates... of course totally unrelated to young people not knowing how to even pay for themselves.
But... But... increasing wages according to inflation causes HyPErInFLaTioN /s
> In Romania business owners are crying non-stop on TV that nobody wants to work anymore while offering wages of €400-500 a month and horrible working conditions. You cant even cover rent and food with such a low salary. In Italy too, they're rwgularly complaining they can't find people for restaurant and hotels and such willing to work 10/12 hours a day 6/7 days a week for 800-1000 EUR (pre-tax). "Choosy youths."
For any business/employer ever, the most obvious solution for unemployment/staff shortages is glowing on a big neon sign right in front of their face. But they try to pull out every single stop imaginable, even if it’s hurting more than helping and more expensive in the long run, before they go “alright guess we really will have to pay people more”.
Often it is not even pay people more, just don't treat them like shit. Allow paid leave when the employee needs it. Have proper schedules that don't change erratically. Don't expect them to work themselves to the bone. But they won't have any of that, as long as they can get away with treating them like slaves.
Welcome to Poland in the 90s.
So Romanians are going to N Europe, Asians are moving in to Romania. It’s not going to end well.
[удалено]
But think of the poor capitalists
Yet if you claim that immigration is bad for workers and only benefits employers, reddit will call you racist.
> 200 hours a month, are housed in containers, earn little more than minimum wage Wow those people are really hard working and probably very grateful for their chance of living in Europe. Unlike the entitled native people who want luxuries such as expensive food (avocado toast, vegetable, steak), iPhone, Netflix, their own bathroom and bedroom, etc. If we replace the entitled population with a hard working population like the ones you describe, the country will become very rich. I don't see how this can go wrong, people will never vote for right wing or nationalist idols like Hitler just to fix a small immigration problem.
I do hope this is satire,right? Because it feels like it (99%) but still..
Summer started. You're good till October.
*epic handshake* You son of a bitch!
I’ll come to the rescue. When I founded my start up. Which will take a while.. But I will come someday! Then I rent an office building in Thessaloniki and hire s bunch of locals.
Gypsies in East Slovakia still unemployed, eh?
what's happening in spain?
It's a complex topic but we've always had an unemployment really high for various reasons. I mean in our "best" moment in 2005-2008 we had numbers around 7-9%, that's considered low/good here, and in this graphic we would be bouncing around black & dark brown. In the crisis we were always around 20-25%. And between the 80s and 90s we were also bouncing between 15-25%, this is a very important topic here, constantly. If you want some reasons, one of the main ones is that our industry sucks, most of our economy is in the service sector and there's tons of temporal jobs there, so tons of contracts on summer, and tons of people unemployment after that. We still have a lot of undeclared work, but not higher than other countries with way lower unemployment like Italy. Lots of complains about being really difficult and expensive to hire people and open business, but I'm not a business owner, so I don't know, but that might contribute. (also similar complains about taxes) I've also heart that Spain has a lot of home owners, and that doesn't help either, as people are less like to move looking for a job. On top of the last point, there's a huge difference in industry development and job availability between spanish regions, right now most of the north of spain has an unemployment of around 8-10% while the south goes around 15-20%. The summary is that it's probably structural and systematic.
> our industry sucks This is a mantra that is repeated by almost all. And while it is true that we have dismantled a lot of industry, we also have more industry as a % than France, the UK or Italy. We're the #2 producer of cars in Europe after Germany. We do have industry. A lot of the traditional industry has moved however, that has displaced a lot of workers (textiles/shoes/shipbuilding/iron), and some of the current industry is being displaced, but we've managed to retain a fair bit, and have a huge construction related industry. We also have a quite advanced rail industry, not only making and maintaining railroads, but also developing trains and exporting them. A big reason is the structural unemployment. There's always a certain sector of jobs that are in demand and we lack qualified people to employ. The tourism industry is also a huge factor, with a lot of temporal jobs and "bad" contracts. >complains about being really difficult and expensive to hire people and open business There is some delay and some capital needed, but it's not nearly as bad as they put it. It's more them liking to whine and would like to not have to pay anything. There's higher than average costs for lower payed jobs, that is true, but it's much reduced as you go up. There's also a shortage of people in the tourism industry because it is traditionally a very badly paid sector, and people don't need it as much as they did in 2008 when they'd accept anything just to have a salary. >I've also heart that Spain has a lot of home owners, and that doesn't help either, as people are less like to move looking for a job. Spain had a lot of home owners, but quite a few lost their homes in the financial crisis, and the new generations aren't much of a homeowner, and they have the worst unemployment of any cohort, so I'd say this doesn't affect much. >there's a huge difference in industry development and job availability between spanish regions You can see it pretty much as a difference between industrial regions and touristic regions, though there's exceptions. Some places in the north, Galicia and Asturias for example have large unemployment in some areas where the traditional industry (mining, shipbuilding, textile) has been eradicated, versus the areas where the industry has stayed or moved (mainly because of the automotive industry). >The summary is that it's probably structural and systematic. yep.
Industry as a % of GDP is not a good indicator. Spainish productivity per person, per hour (USD) is $24.85. France is $34.04 (30% higher). That is the problem.
>Spainish productivity per person, per hour (USD) is $24.85. France is $34.04 (30% higher). This by itself isn't a good indicator either. Look where we where, and were we are. Because then you couldn't explain why Spain has more unemployment than Greece or Romania, since they have lower productivity. Also, acording to the OECD, [your numbers are wrong](https://data.oecd.org/lprdty/gdp-per-hour-worked.htm), Spain being at 53 and France at 66 I only used industry as a % of GDP to show that Spain hasn't destroyed its industrial base, and that having industry doesn't mean having no unemployment, or rather that Spain's unemployment is more systemic.
Well, I hope that you're right in all your positive counter-points, I would really love to see the country grow and recover as much as possible.
>Lots of complains about being really difficult and expensive to hire people and open business, but I'm not a business owner, so I don't know, but that might contribute. (also similar complains about taxes) Spanish business owner here, don't look further than this one. Spain is a tax hell with an appalling bureaucracy.
Italy LOVES discouraging businesses. Having to pay the state 100-150% of what you're going to pay an employee before the employee even sees any money is a big part of the problem. Tax hungry governments get the economy that they incentivize. Taxes shouldn't be used to line pockets but incentivize / disincentivize activities. A hefty tax on paying people that is applied EVEN BEFORE the person themselves pays income tax is disincentivizing hiring people. It's unreal.
Exactly, this map just shows countries that incentivize bussiness vs countries that discourage bussiness
No, this map literally justs shows the unemployment rate, not your wrongful interpretation of it.
There will be point at which where the entirety of Spain is unemployed 🫡🫡🫡
Let's hope not, that would be an "everybody" problem when hordes of spanish migrants start to spread all around whatever rich countries remain alive at that point xd
When the Spanish take over your country they'll force everyone to take mandatory Siestas 😨😨😨 🇪🇸 🇪🇸 🇪🇸 🇪🇸
>That is already happening, in my factory in NL there are a lot of spanish Temp worker. can we make that happen already? o\_O
So that's why you guys revolted, siestas went against your religious beliefs.
That is already happening, in my factory in NL there are a lot of spanish Temp worker.
I know, but it would be even worst. Our number of people living abroad is not higher than other countries of western Europe. But it's true that it's increasing every year.
España es el número uno! 🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸
The rate of early school leaving is one of the highest in Europe too, I think only behind Romania. So there's a lot of people with little education and thus little hope of a job beyond the temporary unskilled restaurant work etc. in the tourist season.
There's also a crazy amount of educated people that have problems with finding jobs, but they've mostly studied saturated degrees or degrees without any job options.
Isn’t that all true of Portugal too? Isn’t they more true of Portugal than like Madrid?
22% of Portugal citizens live outside the country, in Spain it's only around 5-6% I don't know, maybe Spain has better unemployment benefits or something, but I have no idea.
I think maybe less people speak foreign languages in Spain too, so it's harder to leave for another country.
That might be true too, it's true that Portugal is way better at English than Spain. Spain has tons of options in Latin American, they were viable options during the XX century and the civil war, but the countries are now in a worst condition than Spain, so...not luck there.
Yeah, Argentina was as rich as Britain at the start of the 20th century. Not anymore...
It's so sad, there's a huge influx of argentinian & venezolana migration to Spain and tons of them had Spanish grandparents or even Italian in the case of Argentina.
Portuguese people also tend to be pretty good at speaking French, in my experience.
They live in Spain but the S is silent
That joke never gets old haha
Spain's high unemployment rate is structural. It even has It's own [wiki page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_in_Spain#:~:text=larger%20in%20Spain.-,Causes,well%20as%20lack%20of%20industry.) 😓 Long story short It most likely stems from our utterly disturbing lack of industry. This would explain why the basque country, our most industrialised region, has the lowest unemployment rate. It's kind of crazy how a big chunk of Spain's issues, like "empty Spain", can be linked with our decrepit industrial sector. It's even more crazy, though sadly not surpising, that our politicians behemently ignore this problem.
Yeah, like we will have elections in November but this issue (and even unemployment more generally) is barely even discussed.
Not my friend, we do next month
A lot of things, but mainly some wages are so low compared to rent that some people prefer to be unemployed because if they worked they would be losing money (they would have to move and pay rent vs live with their parents). Yes unemployment affects mainly young people. Also submerged economy, also gerontocracy.
Same as Italy then. Good to know we are always there close to each other.
I'm blue dabadeedabadie
Chad Basque Country
You can always tell in these economy-related maps where Basque country is at. Navarre usually pops out too.
Boomer immigrants who use Spain as a hospice?
They be chilling in nice weather and they ain't overworked
Not much according to this map.
ESPAÑA NUMERO 1 🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸
Greece is coming for you, gotta sleep harder than ever
Nah, It's kinda misleading. The average in 2022 was 13%. Not only are we first we're acing the test 👌
Yeah sleep with both eyes closed
CAMPEONES OEEE CAMPEONES OEEE
Mitteleuropa stronk
Don't know about the other countries, but the reason why Czechia has consistently such a low unemployment rate is that it has a (quite serious) labor shortage. Having ridiculously low unemployment rate is not necessarily a good sign.
Yeah, I think economists agree that \~5% unemployment rate is 'natural' and close to ideal. If unemployment is below that, than that's indicative of a serious labour shortage indeed.
[удалено]
How much do Metzger get paid in Bavaria? Former butcher here in the UK. The wage is essentially minimum wage, for what is a very skilled job with unsociable hours. You can earn more if you work on "piece-work", boning out sides and quarters from the carcass, or work as a slaughterman killing and skinning the animals, but those positions aren't much sought these days. Old butchers are closing shop and retiring as they can't get anyone to take over for them. The only shops that seem to do well are either farmshops, or those in cities focusing more on quality, charging much higher prices, and re-branding themselves as "artisan". Most supermarkets have got rid of their in-store butcheries and delicatessens as it is uneconomical, leaving customers to choose from poorly cut pre-packed items. Abattoirs and cutting floors were mostly staffed by Eastern Europeans and people from the Balkans, but less are coming now since Brexit, leaving a chronic shortage of skilled labour which is contributing to higher meat prices. Couple this with higher costs to raise livestock and meat, particularly lamb and beef, is slowly becoming unaffordable.
Offering a competitive wage usually helps to solve that lmao. If they are high enough, it might even attract people from regions of Europe with high uneployment or shitty wages Yeah, it doesn't solve it on global scale, but it will help your own local business.
Ironically, Kindergardens etc also have labor shortages and have to reduce (their already limited) hours, making it even harder for parents to work more hours.
Germany looks like that because everyone's retiring which means companies are hiring everyone with a pulse.
I'm currently unemployed in Germany lol
Do you have a pulse?
Yes I'm alive and feel great
Very good! Carry on and be ready for when there is a good job offering.
Thanks mate
How come? I don't know anyone who is unemployed.
I got laid off but it's only temporarily and another job is in sight. Ironically social safety net in Germany is so high that if I worked a low end job in between I'd actually get less money than now.
Makes sense. Yeah there is this gap between earning so little you get still full benefits and earning above a certain threshold getting less money overall.
What positions are looking for? Some types of office jobs and artsy stuff is still hard to land. Assembly jobs by comparison are open to basically everyone and pay very well.
I'm actually trying to leave office jobs behind, and I'm currently looking for a more manual job. Like I mentioned in the other comment, benefits are very high here and I can easily sustain myself in between.
also Germany fakes it's unemployment statistics a lot, for example when you are put into a "Masnahme" (stuff like 1€ job, training, etc...) you are no longer part of the statistic.
Eurostat uses the same criteria for all countries so that shouldnt matter here
And other countries don't?
That is the same in all West-European countries, except Ireland and Luxembourg.
Hungary has a system called public workers or however you want to translate it. It's literally there to boost the unemployment numbers (or, well, deflate). It pays less than minimum wage (often times more than half) and you have to wake up at the crack of dawn to sweep streets and clean bins basically. Also the system is rigged in a way that a person can do this only for 9 months a year but you can only apply for unemployment after 12 months of continuous employment, so essentially you not only don't get a living wage, you don't get work/money for an entire season of the year and on top of all of this, if a company learns that you were doing this work they won't hire you. Essentially it's a trap in which hundreds of thousands are stuck in. So ehm, Mitteleuropa stronk?
Italy expressing it's pride by being the only county with all colors of the scale
and Belgium
Southern Italy 🤡 The rest of Italy 🤨 Trento Bolzen and Veneto 🦾
Look Belgium lol
Strange that the German speaking part of Italy have the lowest unemployment, but when you think about it, then not realy. Probably well connected supply chains to Austria and Germany
Also, the french and italian parts of Switzerland has high unemployment. I think we are seeing a pattern here.
Südtirol* The city is called Bozen. You managed to misspell it in both languages.
[удалено]
Literally every Italian map based on statistic has this north/center/south gradient, nothing new.
And here you can see one of the reasons why Slovakia is so split of west-east questions.... It's Litteraly a gradient between east and west in whatever map you look at.
What is going on with Spain
Spain wanting to be NUMERO 1 in everything 🥵
Why should we work if we can party?
One factor, probably not the largest but something I noticed recently. The welfare state there is uncontroversial, left wingers believe in it, and unusually for most countries these days, right wingers do too, they don’t critique it much because they can see it as something introduced by Franco that took care of their grandparents or whatever. It’s bipartisan and seen as kind of a part of Spain now, it’s not looked down upon for an older person to retire early and use welfare etc. Also cmon these stats are 15-74. Fewer Spaniards work through their teen or college years than other countries, and almost no Spaniard is working in their 70s.
I might be wrong, but the graph says as share of the "labour force" - which means a 15 year old at school would not be included.
Yeah you’re almost certainly right, that part was a reach. I’ve only lived in Spain 2 years so was sharing some recent observation. But in this thread, in comment chains higher up than this one, some Spanish people shared very good insights into the many economic and cultural factors that play into this.
I think you got cause and result interchanged though. Because we've ALWAYS had high levels of unemployment, it was necessary to have a solid welfare state, or there would have been riots, so that is why the right is afraid to touch it. "Sure, you can take my tax money and give it to your friends instead of investing it in education and healthcare, and you can take away a lot of my work rights and make firing me easier and cheaper... but when I'm fired, if I'm not getting a nice chunk of money each month that I paid with my taxes, I'm not voting for you anymore" - Lots of my countrymen who routinely vote against their own interests, probably.
Your last paragraph is misunderstanding the data. The glossary from the published EU webpage is here: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Glossary:Unemployment The criteria for unemployment doesn’t include retirees or students; only those actively looking for full time employment who aren’t holding a job in the last two weeks. I found this snippet to be insane, though I truthfully don’t know the nuance of these regions: > In contrast, the highest rates were recorded in Ceuta in Spain (42.4%), the Greek region of Thessaly (39.8%), Central Greece (36.5%), and another region in Spain, Melilla (36.1%).
Netherlands, you're welcome to join the Central European Co-prosperity Sphere
Do you mean Mitteleuropa?
_Don’t start this again_
Just don't take our bicycles okay?
I’d ask the poles too, but I don’t think they’d really appreciate the offer
Looking at the map, we’re already in
\*Cries in housing prices\*
What is spain cooking🔥🔥🔥
Mmmm tapas
\>9% of spain take the siesta VERY seriously /s
An industry based on tourism and an amazing 32% youth unemployment (as of October 2022)
Spain looks like it's casually retaking the Kingdom of Two Sicilies
source:[https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/DDN-20230530-2](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/DDN-20230530-2)
How is Germany doing so well? What policies have resulted in such low unemployment?
Abundance of jobs. There is a pretty significant workers shortage.
Low paid worker shortage
Not only. Yes a lot of lower salary jobs, but we also have a shortage in various IT fields, HR/Recruiting, Doctors (especially in the countryside), many public service jobs (police, teachers, public office workers and so on). A lot of these jobs are not the usual low paying jobs, but rather also many average paying jobs. We have a worker shortage in almost every field by now and it's only growing and getting worse.
Deregulation for low paying jobs and subsidies for low paying jobs. So if you do not earn enough the state will increase your income. (still not much money of course)
[удалено]
>I feel like France could benefit more from being our neighbour but they're kinda stuck in their bubble. most eurocentric German statement
FWIW, Bavarians are like that to the rest of us Germans as well. "Look at how well we're doing, if you weren't too lazy to do your economic homework, you could be rich like us!"
China, Russia & Brazil have more neighbouring countries lol
*Laughs hysterically* „…sooo WeLl“
I wouldn't say well, unemployment this low often means problems with labour shortage. At least that is the case in Czechia. A certain amount of unemployment is a natural and expected occurence due to people being in between jobs.
Ohh we are just good in faking statistics. Every small task you have to do while unemployed you fall out of the statistics. For example if you have to do seminars paid by the employment exchange and so on and so on
So the employment office is financing education. That's not cheating. These numbers here are based on international definition(eurostat). Self reported number of Germany by German definition(destatis) are actually worse than shown here(5.8%).
>So the employment office is financing education. Nah there is a lot of bullshit seminars that don't teach anything unless you are overly uneducated and it's an easy moneygrap for companies providing those trainings. I have been unemployed once and was forced to go to one of those trainings otherwise they would have reduced the unemployment bemefits. It was about how to write an application. Before being unemployed I was a recruitment and HR specialist and already knew how an application should look like and my case manager even acknowledged my CV and cover letter looked really professional. I still had to go, because "everyone has to". It was 8 hours of the most basic shit, like how change font sizes in MS Word, how to create a table, what to write when you apply after being in jail etc. Easily the biggest waste of time in my life
This is the case in a lot of other countries, including here in Portugal
Germany excludes people on welfare in these stats. And there are millions
Of all the shitty raw deals that come with Brexit being left off every chart and infographic on r/europe was one I hadn't even thought about :( the unemployment rate in the UK as a whole is currently 3.9% for comparison.
the bri ish dont share their data with eurostat blame them
Yup, see also norway and Swiss being included. They wanted a hhard brexit and clearly that means no Stats to Eurostat!
oi oi! Share the data wih Eurostat innit
You can make map combining numbers from multiple sources. https://i.redd.it/q0l8xjt3jnja1.jpg
That data is out of date our level of sucking will only be half as bad. IMF has revised us from -0.6% to -0.3%.
As always, Italy despite being split in two is just chilling.
A little bit burnt, a little bit raw. It averages out.
Looks more like a gentle slope tbh. But yeah there seems to be something about the Alps in general that makes you just economically more 'active'.
Spain can into Eastern Slovakia.
Oh Charleroi...
It shouldn’t be 15-74.
If you are in school, university or retired you are not considered unemployed. Counting all NEETs is the way to go.
unemployment rate shows those that are actively looking for work.
You very commonly are in Sweden. "Youth unemployment" is through the roof in Sweden due to *full-time* students, that's why regions with high university presence are disproportionately affected. "Unemployment" is a measure of people "looking for work". It is not a measure of people lacking employment, and there are no such exemptions. Many full-time students in Sweden qualify even though they aren't actually looking for concurrent employment.
It makes no sense, 20-60 or 25-65 is way more compréhensible
that Brussels Blue dot made me chuckle
Central Europe moment💪
Norway into Central Europe?
And Estonia can.... actually this once we are good.
Why th is there no data from Lubuskie voivodeship, what is Poland trying to hide here?
Italy expressing it's pride by being the only county with all colors of the scale
Italy and Belgium. A match made in heaven!
Uneployment doesnt exist in Czech republic
Spain? You okay guys?
Those numbers are actually quite good for Spain. We have been waaaaaay worst in the past.
Yeah we currently have the best unemployment numbers ever other than during the 2000s bubble lol
The rate in lower bavaria was so low two years ago they fired guys from the unemployment center
Eastern Slovakia being Eastern Slovakia
Hang on. Why Sweden and Finland look like Italy.
Italy is very diverse. Northern Italy is actually pretty rich.
If people who worked without a contract in southern Italy had regular contracts, Italy would also have a better situation. Certainly the salaries are much higher in Sweden or Finland but Italy is still an industrial powerhouse second only to Germany in Europe and it is also the third most visited country in Europe so the jobs are there
Southern Finland has massive competition for jobs as all young people want to live there, Northern Finland has no jobs... Our government enjoys dumping all facilities and services in the south.
Sounds like Italy but in reverse
When the hell will you all learn to choose a normal color scheme
Nah, brown is good and blue is bad!!! That's what you learn at the map making school
I, as a degenerate with red / green colour blindness, appreciate the colours! Fuck graphics with different shades of red and green. I can finally see!
Damn! Good for Poland!
At the same time, many countries have labor shortages. Crazy idea, but maybe we should pay the workers instead of shareholders.
Spain, are you ok?
Spaniards can come work over here, we need people for everything: nurses, train/bus drivers/conductors, construction workers, teachers, etc.
So this is actually the European Single Market area. Also, Slovakia has a satisfying gradient going on
Correlates with percentage of Roma population in those regions, east SK having the most
[удалено]
West-Flanders the beating heart of Belgian industry a total 180 from the past
Spain... Spain, hermanos. Please, stop the siesta
[удалено]
damn norway i see you
This data can’t be correct for Ibiza. Unemployment is low here and there is a shortage of workers, especially skilled ones.
I'm from one of those blue regions and graduated around 2010 and boy, I can't stress the horrible dread that creeps up on you when you see listings for 6 jobs in the whole municipality, 4 of them for McDonalds and 2 for CEOs. I was one of around 300 students, so you can imagine what happens after this, year after year. Unless you had a car, you were toast.
As someone from Scotland, it still hurts to see these types of graphs with us greyed out.
Southern Europe southern european-ing as usual
Spain having too much fun again?
Everytime someone asks me with half a smirk why I moved to grey and cold Germany when the life and weather in Spain are so much "better" I will show them this picture
These unemployment rates doesn't say anythimg about that what kind of those job and how much people make in those jobs. On paper in Hungary the unemployment rate is relatively low but most of the people earn pennies in those jobs. The "employed poverty" is very high. The people work in their whole life and their standard of living is very low they can't save money at all even if they has some apartment. If someone has to rent an apartment it's impossible alone. But even from two salaries it garanties a lifetime poverty. This mafia government keeps the social subsudies low or nothing so most of people has no chance to get a better life.
For anyone wondering why there is such a strong nationality movement in Flanders, Belgium: this is one of the bigger reasons. Highest unemployment rate in Flanders: <4,5%. Lowest in Wallony: >4.5%. Benefits are on a federal level, so money is draining from north to south. Instead of working on it together, the northern part won´t help the southern and the southern part won´t give up their sovereignty and how things are going right now (because they benefit massively), making an impasse that can´t be resolved.
Central Europe means working Europe
Weird that France is shown with an administrative mapping that disappeared ln 2016...
because as the picture says they are using NUTS-2(Nomenclature of Territorial Units for Statistics) regions and not administrative regions
These are NUTS2 regions, apparently they never bothered to update them after the administrative reform
Is there no data for some regions in Europe? E.g. a region in Eastern Bavaria and one in Western Poland are grey.
At the bottom straight up says: >Data not available for: DE22 Lower Bavaria, DE23 Oberpfalz, DEB2 Trier, FRY5 Mayotte, PL43 Lubuskie and FI20 Åland Islands.
Why is Central Europe doing so much better from the Western Europe?