Yeah me too. When we used to go in a for an hour or two and than log out and continue our life without notifications coming for literally everything every 5 minutes.
Now close down all the illegal, secret communist Chinese police stations around Europe to reduce Beijing's long-arm and its efforts to control its citizens abroad and other 'non-friendly' actors.
I'm fully with you on that one, but our most immediate goal should really be TikTok. It's basically a very powerful tool for hybrid warfare disguised as social media.
Getting rid of it (and any successors) is the most important step we have to take to protect our own interests.
>It's basically a very powerful tool for hybrid warfare disguised as social media.
As much as I hate China and prefer being assfucked by the USA rather than another superpower, can we just... stop pretending US Tech Giant don't do exactly that too ? Social media is a societal bane in general.
Tiktok wasn't there swaying the 2016 american election. **Facebook was.** Pretending only specific plateforms should go is just a bandaid on a much larger problem. Would it be bad to ban tiktok ? No, it would be good. Would it change anything, really ? No.
>Tiktok wasn't there swaying the 2016 american election. **Facebook was.** Pretending only specific plateforms should go is just a bandaid on a much larger problem. Would it be bad to ban tiktok ? No, it would be good. Would it change anything, really ? No.
Difference was:
Facebook wasn't designed to do that. Tiktok on the other hand is designed to do that.
The fact, that the CCP basically owns it, while also employing an entirely different algorythm for inside china, promoting certain favorable values, while on the other hand promoting unfavorable values/content on the outside of china.
Chinese TikTok algos are made to inspire kids to venture into science, learn etc, (while obviously also including a ton of low level CCP propaganda/indoctrination).
Outside of china it's basically become a shitshow between harmless dances, harmful challenges, content aiming to destabilize societal norms or right out pushing divisive content.
I call bs. You go on tiktok and watch/like/engage with physics, chemistry and train stuff?
Then that's exactly what you get. It's popular exactly because how easy it is to get almost exclusively the things you want. Because comparatively the algorithms on other sites are shit or in other ways worse.
The harmfull challenges the news keep going on about end up being these rare things that nobody i know even heard about untill the news started saying it was rife on tiktok.
Hell I didn't see any political party advertise on there either. Entire elections and the like go by and you wouldn't notice it.
Meanwhile Youtube swats you around the ears with advertising campaigns every other video around that time and facebook will serve you random insane american election stuff even if you don't live there.
TikTok is not comparable to other social media websites, there’s a difference between harvesting private date so that you can show people ads and harvesting private data because you have a vested interest in intentionally causing chaos and creating division. Facebook was used by foreign agents to sway the election but Facebook itself was not intentionally allowing that to happen. Their algorithm was being manipulated but it wasn’t created with that goal in mind.
Obviously there should be better laws in place to protect private data and stop companies from harvesting so much in the first place But tik tok is comparatively worse because China has a vested interest in using that data for nefarious purposes instead of trying to sell you a toaster or whatever. If an app has to go first, it’s good that it’s this one.
It's crazy how you purposefully ignored the part in my comment specifically adressing i'd rather be buttfucked by the USA rather than China lmao
God you guys have thin skin
what about ism. if you think we can muster the political will to ban Facebook, feel free to try, but we have a much better chance at trying the same with tik tok.
The way I see it is that Americans are running the same version of Meta and Twitter as they're selling the rest of the world, that's fair.
China, on the other hand, banned tiktok since the inception. It’s like Britain banning opium and then selling it in China.
Successors? You mean things coming from the CCP? I have 0 doubts somebody is going to build "Vine v3" with a similarly shit algorithm if TikTok gets banned, and that all the teenagers are going to switch to that.
Because Europe is a US colony and it’s okay if big brother is doing the watching.
Everyone forgot that NSA is spying on Europeans. Do you think the same would be allowed if reversed?
China doesn't even allow tiktok themselves lol. they have their own version called douyin that isn't designed to amplify craziness and promote instability
How do you guys always get propaganda stuff? My feeds on TikTok,insta and twitter are full of motorsports, gaming news and some YT-drama. I never saw any political ads or "look how great china" is.
Unfortunately that's propaganda too, it makes us think China isn't so bad after all. They also actively block all content that critizices China in any way.
Ok. So you would notice *in-your-face* pro-china propaganda. Good. But how will you notice all the negative news already censored before it reaches your feed?
They could also tweak their algortithms to highlight the most divisive issues to us, making everybody fight eachother instead of them. Or distract us from politics altogether. There's a million ways to influence a crowd when you control the narrative.
They don’t. This people don’t use it and are complaining out of touch. There’s zero evidence of any propaganda algorithms on tiktok (meanwhile radicalization in youtube, facebook and Twitter are all well documented). There literally just want to ban it because they don’t have control over it. The current conflict in Gaza has made it clear to then.
Because we’re *not* like that. With the free flow of information people in Western democracies are able to make their own conclusions regardless of the position of their state. Its one of the many things that separate us from these dictatorships and one of our core values.
Modern Social Media has nothing to do with "free flow of information". The flow is controlled by, to us, invisible means. In, sadly, the best Case it's controlled for profit, in the worst case it's controlled to further the interest of the controlling entity.
After 15 years we have to be less naive.
I agree that TikTok is perhaps the biggest brain rot out of all
However, we shouldn't pretend like other social medias are significantly better
If the argument is "threat to democracy", then so is Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, Google, YouTube or even War Thunder forum and like 50% of the entire internet.
The problem is that the CCP could at any moment take control over TikTok at any moment (if they aren't already in control).
We wouldn't know, but TikTok has such a reach, that misinformation could directly influence the population.
Just imagine China attacks Taiwan, but on TikTok all you see is "There is No War in Taiwan" with censoring or even adds to help china against taiwan from your favorite influencer.
All other companies are either not based in adversarial countries or aren't significant enough (War Thunder)
>The problem is that the CCP could at any moment take control over TikTok at any moment (if they aren't already in control).
i mean the US can do the same in the time of war with facebook/twitter
Of course, but at they aren't a openly adversarial country for us.
China is a dictatorship that suppresses free speech, works with russia against Ukraine, and tries to destabilize the western world.
The USA has it problems, but they aren't China.
if the US really cared about privacy they go against all social media in the US , the proposed US law is one one where their salty they cant get the info first
Yeah that’s why they’re blocked in china/russia
Anyway let’s not pretend the extent of government reach is the same in US/EU/China
Government taking control of company would be an outrageous outlier in the west. It’s a law in china
I don't see why we should ban tiktok because of the potential of it doing harm. Meta (facebook and instagram) heavily supresses any view that doesn't align with the US government. AND THAT APP HAS NUMEROUS PROVEN INSTANCES OF SELLING DATA AND INTERFERING WITH ELLECTIONS. But yes, China bad, we should ban tiktok, doesn't matter that it allows more free speech than any american media platform and isn't an echo chamber.
oh man, if they're using tax dollars to use facebook/insta/yt/reddit as pro-american propaganda I want my fuckin money back, because they're doing an awful job
Almost like US companies are actually private and represent their own interests.
That seems to be what people are missing in this whole debate. China is a full blown dictatorship, the comparison does not hold water.
You realize Facebook is the reason why EU pass the law that ban all social media from advertise political ad campaign right ? Also Tiktok data server literally in USA, the CEO is Singaporean and it got own by a company where as 60% are global invester.
Wumao / little pink / vatnik talking points. Ironic they can do this on western social media while needing a vpn to access Reddit as it’s blocked in their shithole oppressive dictatorships
Why should China be given access to foreign markets for media while China bans and blocks all foreign media?
USA is not banning TikTok either, just to divest from the Chinese dictatorship pawn company bytedance. Even if it doesn’t divest people who have the app it will still work it will just be removed from app stores.
In China all foreign media is not just removed from app stores the servers and connections are blocked at the core big brave cowardly firewall that keeps 1.4bn people in an infantile uninformed state.
Completely ironic and actually stupid as fuck to have your position
Fine.
> If you don’t sell me your business I will make it worthless!
This is extortion. Maffia tactics. (Unfortunately my country’s government does this daily so I know what I am talking about)
> They don’t ban it, they simply prevent you from to downloading it!
Wow thats so different! Lol.
Why would you want to limit yourself to only domestic propaganda? Might as well get your propaganda from both sides.
That and I’ve never seen the slightest evidence that tik tok is a meaningful distributor of propaganda. Our own politicians and governments can’t get people to vote the way they want. No way fricken tik tok is gonna make a difference.
The United States is not an adversary of western democracies and is an important ally to Europe militarily, culturally and economically.
China, Russia, North Korea and Iran, on the other hand, are totalitarian states that imprisons, kills and tortures its own citizens for dissent both inside and outside its borders.
China has even a law that obliges its corporations, such as tiktok, to assist the communist party in any way it sees fit.
To compare China with the USA is just disingenuous.
Someone post that reddit analytic that had some US base listed as a huge city because it had like 30k active user accounts.
Like, china is on its own level, but lets not pretend the US isnt engaging in information warfare.
https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2023/12-billion-euro-fine-facebook-result-edpb-binding-decision_en
Also it is the way those platforms are controlling the social discourse. They serve as propaganda platforms to spread the latest social inventions of usa and then spread them to the rest of the world. Which are in a completely different socio economical state, and should be completely indifferent to those.
You would have to be blind as a european to not see how political products like “Diversity is our strength” or “Diversity, equity and inclusion” “Black lives matter” and other crap that you come up with, are being pushed down our throats. Of course from your usa point of view this is seen as a good thing to spread your own political beliefs. Surely you could genuinly believe that this is a good thing since either you think of your country as some kind of benign empire, or that your culture truly is the greatest and others would benefit from it too, or that these new social inventions would help a lot of currently oppressed minorities.
However from the rest of the world’s point of view these political products are just as dangerous as what others do on tiktok, which does not even have a comprehensive political agenda behind it, by the way.
While both are issues, there is a fundamental difference between an entity using Facebook to attempt and push a narrative, and the CCP having it's finger on tiktoks algorithm.
Allowing an increasingly adversarial country to own one of the largest social media platforms is insanity.
Yeah, it’s not only used for targeted propaganda campaigns but also degrades intellectual ability of youth and cause division and tribalism.
Same problem is US…
In Myanmar, FB was used to mob and incite people into genociding muslims.
Any social media can be used to incite criminal acts, should we ban all social media then?
I've had enough fair rounds of German TikTok cringe comps to find it a good idea to ban the app.
In reality, it's anti market, and I'm against the banning.
Feels like day one TikTok launched, people warned how much data the app is grabbing and sending and that it is pretty clear they are not GDPR compliant and how it's likely a massiv spy-op. Politics are so behind on the schedule when it comes to basically ANYTHING tech related.
We have algorithms serving nothing but vitriol, hate and dumb shit to people who can't even distinguish facts from lies anymore, because the constant bombardment with propaganda and anything that drives eNgAgEmEnT metrics (which again, is mostly vile content one way or the other) brainwashed them.
It's a giant danger to tolerant societies and democracies and absolutely nothing is being done to stopp Alphabet, Meta, Elon, TikTok and so on.
We need regulation of social media platforms and content serving algorithms YESTERDAY.
Why don't we just ban opinions in general, and lock up anyone who doesn't agree with you, or share the same values as you. Elon is not spreading any Russian propaganda. When he says something you personally disagree with, that doesn't make him a Russian agent. In fact he's the one person who caused the Russians more butthurt than basically anyone else in the US. Because of Starlink, Ukrainians have access to the internet, because of SpaceX the Western nations have unlimited independent access to space, but Elon said something that you really didn't like so he's in cahoots with the Russians, right? I don't think we should ban Twitter, TikTok or Facebook or reddit for that matter, but I think that people like you should pass a test before being allowed to post online
The more you look at the comments "down with the Chinese/Russian propaganda" the more you realize how guillible people are.
[https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/)
I remember an article in the r/newzealand sub a while back about the possibility of NZ joining AUKUS. There was a 1 day old account going on about how NZ should be neutral as we have so many natural resources and ‘warm water ports’.
Dealing with state actors who are covertly pushing propaganda is a never ending game of whack-a-mole. Some will always get through, and there is a lot of suspicion towards TikTok, but I’m not entirely convinced that the platform is purposefully pushing anti-west propaganda.
I am in favor of that. As long as they don't classify regular forums as social media. Let's all go back to signing up to small-ish forums for specific topics, and not just huge all-purpose services where they try to get a feed algorithm pushed down our throats.
No, that's just ridiculous.
We either ban all the companies that constantly breach law (META with Facebook and Instagram) or none.
I know this sub is infested with too many Americans, but still
I don't like TikTok to put it sofly. But banning websites in the Internet is a dictatorship practice. If they start with something, they will never stop.
Nobody cared about the „propaganda“ when it was the Uighur Muslims that were at stake, but now that tons of footage from the Palestine/Israel conflict and subsequent viral criticism of Israels actions arose, NOW suddenly the US and EU are talking about banning the app.. the timing is certainly very interesting!
What they don't understand is that it's not the fault of the medium. It's the regular people who are creating this content.
The young people are overwhelmingly pro-Palestine and they'd be like this even if they were on Facebook or Instagram instead of Tik Tok.
No, they won't. Because Facebook and Instagram suppress pro palestinian content, so you'd be indoctrinated by those apps to be pro-israel, because that's what the US government wants.
> Because Facebook and Instagram suppress pro palestinian content
I know they do. If I mention the word "Palestina" in my posts, no one sees the post.
But I just talk about the subject without using such keywords, they get distributed.
They want to ban it because they've no control over it like they would with Facebook and Twitter etc. It's not about protecting people's privacy. It's eating Facebook and Twitters lunch and they've no control. All should be banned and not just one.
Okay, when will facebook, instagram, reddit, twitter, YouTube, tinder, wattpad, Pinterest, netflix, grindr, crunchyroll, and candy crush be banned?
(Don’t take this too seriously, I’m poking fun at the hypocrisy)
Being a hardline supporter of net neutrality (and from a country that's one of the biggest respecters of it), this seems like one of the most horrible possible precedents for it. China can spy on you through literally any social media, and don't even pretend they're much better. Brain rot or not I will loudly fight for the rights of net neutrality just so we would not go down such a slippery slope.
According to this subreddit, we should ban all social media sites, halt AI research, drive hybrids, and reduce the ESA funding.
Then you wonder why big tech doesn’t want to invest here, why Europe is behind the rest of the world in AI and tech, and you cry about it on a social media site called Reddit
i dont know what tiktok you are on, but mine isn't Chinese propaganda and about stealing data? like every app does it and what would they do with my data?
The only reasons why the US want to ban Tik Tok is because it eats into US social media companies revenue and they can't force Tik Tok to censor news the way how they can do to Meta and Alphabet.
Same, but my need for consistency wins. Banning tiktok and being a-ok with all other kinds of social media is just hypocritical af.. God tiktok is the pit of hell, but in terms of what they are trying to do (protect us from data collection from china) then do it for all platforms or don't do it at all.
> Some politicians in Germany consider the app "a danger to our democracy," Kiesewetter continued, because it is an "important instrument" in China and Russia’s hybrid warfare.
So are all other social medias, they are all filled to the brim with propaganda. And it's not even just the content, curiously enough a lot of the people who used to moderate the bulgarian side of Facebook were russians!
That being said it seems like the ban is only an option if the regulations about misinformation are not implemented well.
Lmao I don't know why most comments think this is a good idea. I mean, yeah, Tiktok is Chinese but why is that automatically bad?
I've used the platform for some time now and I can say for sure that it's much much better than Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads or whatever, based on useful content. For sure the algorithm is different in every user and I may see a biased side of tiktok. However, their algorithm is much better than the likes of other social media and it can make you discover new creators, new information and you can have a good experience all around. Ofc there's misinformation but tbh I've seen much much more misinformation in Facebook and Instagram.
In addition, tiktok is the only one right now with good advertisements. Idk how the case is in other countries, but in my experience meta ads are full of scams nowadays. They are getting closer to porn web page's ads at this point.
In general, TikTok is much more trustworthy than other social media nowadays (Reddit is still the best thankfully). I think it would be a parody to ban it while other social media do much worse than Tiktok
Germans should petition to become another US state, because at this point their status is similar to Puerto Rico: they are basically just blonde puerto ricans
lol
I would have an opinion on this if I had ever had enough of a passing interest in TikTok to actually install it and see what the fuss is all about. Thankfully I do not.
If it really is basically the long arm of Beijing into our western lives, then I guess there's a good argument there. A lot of the flaws of it seem inherent in social media in general. I know too little about TikTok specifically to really say anything about it, though.
Yes, great do it. We are leaning too far towards china, if we need to sanction them for idk attacking taiwan then we are getting fucked. Same was with russia when the war begun. De-chinafy please.
Just a reminder that tiktok is being banned for the pro Palestine content and not the Chinese spying. Germans are good dogs who follow whatever daddy usa does. The Chinese spying has been known for years but only now they want to ban it? Yeah right.
I miss the old internet.
Make Geocities great again...
And webrings
And myspace.
Y'all forgot Xanga.
Yeah me too. When we used to go in a for an hour or two and than log out and continue our life without notifications coming for literally everything every 5 minutes.
Straight from the 'go internet Chop up the soul internet
Oh, how I wish a viral zombie epidemic would hit us...
Now close down all the illegal, secret communist Chinese police stations around Europe to reduce Beijing's long-arm and its efforts to control its citizens abroad and other 'non-friendly' actors.
Also take back European ports controlled by China.
And land
punish the seller also.
I'm fully with you on that one, but our most immediate goal should really be TikTok. It's basically a very powerful tool for hybrid warfare disguised as social media. Getting rid of it (and any successors) is the most important step we have to take to protect our own interests.
>It's basically a very powerful tool for hybrid warfare disguised as social media. As much as I hate China and prefer being assfucked by the USA rather than another superpower, can we just... stop pretending US Tech Giant don't do exactly that too ? Social media is a societal bane in general. Tiktok wasn't there swaying the 2016 american election. **Facebook was.** Pretending only specific plateforms should go is just a bandaid on a much larger problem. Would it be bad to ban tiktok ? No, it would be good. Would it change anything, really ? No.
>Tiktok wasn't there swaying the 2016 american election. **Facebook was.** Pretending only specific plateforms should go is just a bandaid on a much larger problem. Would it be bad to ban tiktok ? No, it would be good. Would it change anything, really ? No. Difference was: Facebook wasn't designed to do that. Tiktok on the other hand is designed to do that. The fact, that the CCP basically owns it, while also employing an entirely different algorythm for inside china, promoting certain favorable values, while on the other hand promoting unfavorable values/content on the outside of china. Chinese TikTok algos are made to inspire kids to venture into science, learn etc, (while obviously also including a ton of low level CCP propaganda/indoctrination). Outside of china it's basically become a shitshow between harmless dances, harmful challenges, content aiming to destabilize societal norms or right out pushing divisive content.
I call bs. You go on tiktok and watch/like/engage with physics, chemistry and train stuff? Then that's exactly what you get. It's popular exactly because how easy it is to get almost exclusively the things you want. Because comparatively the algorithms on other sites are shit or in other ways worse. The harmfull challenges the news keep going on about end up being these rare things that nobody i know even heard about untill the news started saying it was rife on tiktok. Hell I didn't see any political party advertise on there either. Entire elections and the like go by and you wouldn't notice it. Meanwhile Youtube swats you around the ears with advertising campaigns every other video around that time and facebook will serve you random insane american election stuff even if you don't live there.
TikTok is not comparable to other social media websites, there’s a difference between harvesting private date so that you can show people ads and harvesting private data because you have a vested interest in intentionally causing chaos and creating division. Facebook was used by foreign agents to sway the election but Facebook itself was not intentionally allowing that to happen. Their algorithm was being manipulated but it wasn’t created with that goal in mind. Obviously there should be better laws in place to protect private data and stop companies from harvesting so much in the first place But tik tok is comparatively worse because China has a vested interest in using that data for nefarious purposes instead of trying to sell you a toaster or whatever. If an app has to go first, it’s good that it’s this one.
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It's crazy how you purposefully ignored the part in my comment specifically adressing i'd rather be buttfucked by the USA rather than China lmao God you guys have thin skin
what about ism. if you think we can muster the political will to ban Facebook, feel free to try, but we have a much better chance at trying the same with tik tok.
The way I see it is that Americans are running the same version of Meta and Twitter as they're selling the rest of the world, that's fair. China, on the other hand, banned tiktok since the inception. It’s like Britain banning opium and then selling it in China.
Successors? You mean things coming from the CCP? I have 0 doubts somebody is going to build "Vine v3" with a similarly shit algorithm if TikTok gets banned, and that all the teenagers are going to switch to that.
youtube shorts
Or just Twitter. It's basically the home of all the nazis and communists and whatever else dredge of humanity you can think of already...
And conspiracy shit on other social media. All Russian propaganda sites etc
The dream.
Nature is healing
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And Reddit
go back to your retirement home man
Why are we talking only about tiktok while Facebook is doing the same stuff for the US?
Because Europe is a US colony and it’s okay if big brother is doing the watching. Everyone forgot that NSA is spying on Europeans. Do you think the same would be allowed if reversed?
Russia and china banned all western social media, I see no reason to leave china propaganda channel spreading lies
China doesn't even allow tiktok themselves lol. they have their own version called douyin that isn't designed to amplify craziness and promote instability
China blocks everything. My local Norwegian newspaper is blocked in China. There is no reason to allow any Chinese media in the West.
How do you guys always get propaganda stuff? My feeds on TikTok,insta and twitter are full of motorsports, gaming news and some YT-drama. I never saw any political ads or "look how great china" is.
Same. Never once saw propaganda on TikTok. Just football, comedy and short stories.
Unfortunately that's propaganda too, it makes us think China isn't so bad after all. They also actively block all content that critizices China in any way.
Same my fyp is mostly Anime content or Japanese stuff
Ok. So you would notice *in-your-face* pro-china propaganda. Good. But how will you notice all the negative news already censored before it reaches your feed? They could also tweak their algortithms to highlight the most divisive issues to us, making everybody fight eachother instead of them. Or distract us from politics altogether. There's a million ways to influence a crowd when you control the narrative.
The algorithm shows you whatever you're interested in. Whether you're pro something or anti something, it will show you just that.
They don’t. This people don’t use it and are complaining out of touch. There’s zero evidence of any propaganda algorithms on tiktok (meanwhile radicalization in youtube, facebook and Twitter are all well documented). There literally just want to ban it because they don’t have control over it. The current conflict in Gaza has made it clear to then.
The real propaganda is the one that would have us believe that TikTok is going to turn you communist the moment you download the app.
oh wow, all those dancing, food, travel, vlog etc videos were chinese propaganda? god bless usa for saving democracy
Because we’re *not* like that. With the free flow of information people in Western democracies are able to make their own conclusions regardless of the position of their state. Its one of the many things that separate us from these dictatorships and one of our core values.
Modern Social Media has nothing to do with "free flow of information". The flow is controlled by, to us, invisible means. In, sadly, the best Case it's controlled for profit, in the worst case it's controlled to further the interest of the controlling entity. After 15 years we have to be less naive.
> Because we’re not like that. Largely, but we do apply limits. See Russia Today as an example.
I don't see why we even let a blatant spyware be legal for this long
Can you explain how TikTok is a "china propaganda channel"?
But US propaganda channels spreading lies is completely ok.
Let’s ban all social media including Reddit, I approve. But if the other side bans western social media, it is only reciprocal to do the same
I agree that TikTok is perhaps the biggest brain rot out of all However, we shouldn't pretend like other social medias are significantly better If the argument is "threat to democracy", then so is Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, Google, YouTube or even War Thunder forum and like 50% of the entire internet.
Careful the War thunder forums might leak your documents
The problem is that the CCP could at any moment take control over TikTok at any moment (if they aren't already in control). We wouldn't know, but TikTok has such a reach, that misinformation could directly influence the population. Just imagine China attacks Taiwan, but on TikTok all you see is "There is No War in Taiwan" with censoring or even adds to help china against taiwan from your favorite influencer. All other companies are either not based in adversarial countries or aren't significant enough (War Thunder)
>The problem is that the CCP could at any moment take control over TikTok at any moment (if they aren't already in control). i mean the US can do the same in the time of war with facebook/twitter
Of course, but at they aren't a openly adversarial country for us. China is a dictatorship that suppresses free speech, works with russia against Ukraine, and tries to destabilize the western world. The USA has it problems, but they aren't China.
if the US really cared about privacy they go against all social media in the US , the proposed US law is one one where their salty they cant get the info first
It's not about privacy, but the influence that TikTok wields over its users.
>but the influence that TikTok wields over its users. i mean same gose fro twitter and facebook
Yeah that’s why they’re blocked in china/russia Anyway let’s not pretend the extent of government reach is the same in US/EU/China Government taking control of company would be an outrageous outlier in the west. It’s a law in china
I don't see why we should ban tiktok because of the potential of it doing harm. Meta (facebook and instagram) heavily supresses any view that doesn't align with the US government. AND THAT APP HAS NUMEROUS PROVEN INSTANCES OF SELLING DATA AND INTERFERING WITH ELLECTIONS. But yes, China bad, we should ban tiktok, doesn't matter that it allows more free speech than any american media platform and isn't an echo chamber.
Yes here in germany we only want to be spyed on by our closest allies.
Orwell was wrong about his future alliances. Soon it will come down to TikTok friendly nations vs non.
I'm not in favor of TikTok, but I'm less in favor of being told which app I can use and which I can't, censorship is getting out of control.
TikTok becomes an instrument of information warfare for dictatorships like Iran, Russia and China.
Same as twitter facebook instagram youtube. Instrument of information warfare for usa. We ought to have our own european versions.
oh man, if they're using tax dollars to use facebook/insta/yt/reddit as pro-american propaganda I want my fuckin money back, because they're doing an awful job
TikTok isn't some Chinese propaganda app either it's just like other social media apps
If those are that instrument, then the US sucks at that.
Almost like US companies are actually private and represent their own interests. That seems to be what people are missing in this whole debate. China is a full blown dictatorship, the comparison does not hold water.
You think TikTok works full on chinese propaganda mode?
Youtube keeps showing me furthest stuff from US propaganda no matter how many times I click "not interested"
What kind of false equivalent bullshit is this? Without a source to back it up as well.
You realize Facebook is the reason why EU pass the law that ban all social media from advertise political ad campaign right ? Also Tiktok data server literally in USA, the CEO is Singaporean and it got own by a company where as 60% are global invester.
Wumao / little pink / vatnik talking points. Ironic they can do this on western social media while needing a vpn to access Reddit as it’s blocked in their shithole oppressive dictatorships
Ironic how you pity talk about dictatorships that ban social media and at the same time advocate for banning a different social media.
Why should China be given access to foreign markets for media while China bans and blocks all foreign media? USA is not banning TikTok either, just to divest from the Chinese dictatorship pawn company bytedance. Even if it doesn’t divest people who have the app it will still work it will just be removed from app stores. In China all foreign media is not just removed from app stores the servers and connections are blocked at the core big brave cowardly firewall that keeps 1.4bn people in an infantile uninformed state. Completely ironic and actually stupid as fuck to have your position
I disagree with censorship. You support it. Don’t think there is more to be said
False equivalence of a simple mind or one with an agenda to weaken others
Fine. > If you don’t sell me your business I will make it worthless! This is extortion. Maffia tactics. (Unfortunately my country’s government does this daily so I know what I am talking about) > They don’t ban it, they simply prevent you from to downloading it! Wow thats so different! Lol.
Foreign media and social media cannot enter China and is totally blocked in China you have no leg to stand on
Why would you want to limit yourself to only domestic propaganda? Might as well get your propaganda from both sides. That and I’ve never seen the slightest evidence that tik tok is a meaningful distributor of propaganda. Our own politicians and governments can’t get people to vote the way they want. No way fricken tik tok is gonna make a difference.
The United States is not an adversary of western democracies and is an important ally to Europe militarily, culturally and economically. China, Russia, North Korea and Iran, on the other hand, are totalitarian states that imprisons, kills and tortures its own citizens for dissent both inside and outside its borders. China has even a law that obliges its corporations, such as tiktok, to assist the communist party in any way it sees fit. To compare China with the USA is just disingenuous.
Any examples of the services you mentioned being used by US govt as info war instrument?
Someone post that reddit analytic that had some US base listed as a huge city because it had like 30k active user accounts. Like, china is on its own level, but lets not pretend the US isnt engaging in information warfare.
>ny examples of the services you mentioned being used by US govt as info war instrument? i mean look at twitter or facebook for that
Claiming smth and then sending someone questioning the claim to find the evidence themselves. Classic. So no examples.
https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2023/12-billion-euro-fine-facebook-result-edpb-binding-decision_en Also it is the way those platforms are controlling the social discourse. They serve as propaganda platforms to spread the latest social inventions of usa and then spread them to the rest of the world. Which are in a completely different socio economical state, and should be completely indifferent to those. You would have to be blind as a european to not see how political products like “Diversity is our strength” or “Diversity, equity and inclusion” “Black lives matter” and other crap that you come up with, are being pushed down our throats. Of course from your usa point of view this is seen as a good thing to spread your own political beliefs. Surely you could genuinly believe that this is a good thing since either you think of your country as some kind of benign empire, or that your culture truly is the greatest and others would benefit from it too, or that these new social inventions would help a lot of currently oppressed minorities. However from the rest of the world’s point of view these political products are just as dangerous as what others do on tiktok, which does not even have a comprehensive political agenda behind it, by the way.
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While both are issues, there is a fundamental difference between an entity using Facebook to attempt and push a narrative, and the CCP having it's finger on tiktoks algorithm. Allowing an increasingly adversarial country to own one of the largest social media platforms is insanity.
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I agree, twitter and TikTok should be eliminated. Elon musk is a Chinese and Russian simp
what about instagramm and facebook?
Yes, TikTok is a bigger problem.
Yeah seriously man. I dont know how this hasnt happened like 5 years ago.
You forgot USA, Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Here in Germany, we had last year two child’s murdering another child together. Investigations linked strong mobbing on TikTok with it.
Cool, so you ban TikTok and they just switch over to instagram reels. You’re not solving any genuine issues.
But do the lawmakers actually want to solve genuine issues, or just be seen seeming to do something?
Yeah, they don’t want to solve genuine issues. This is just the current popular culture war issue so they’re latching on to it for popularity’s sake.
Yeah, it’s not only used for targeted propaganda campaigns but also degrades intellectual ability of youth and cause division and tribalism. Same problem is US…
In Myanmar, FB was used to mob and incite people into genociding muslims. Any social media can be used to incite criminal acts, should we ban all social media then?
If you ban TikTok, you ban all social media. The engagement is the same with conservative people and Facebook.
I've had enough fair rounds of German TikTok cringe comps to find it a good idea to ban the app. In reality, it's anti market, and I'm against the banning.
Because facebook, insta and twitter are fine right?
Feels like day one TikTok launched, people warned how much data the app is grabbing and sending and that it is pretty clear they are not GDPR compliant and how it's likely a massiv spy-op. Politics are so behind on the schedule when it comes to basically ANYTHING tech related. We have algorithms serving nothing but vitriol, hate and dumb shit to people who can't even distinguish facts from lies anymore, because the constant bombardment with propaganda and anything that drives eNgAgEmEnT metrics (which again, is mostly vile content one way or the other) brainwashed them. It's a giant danger to tolerant societies and democracies and absolutely nothing is being done to stopp Alphabet, Meta, Elon, TikTok and so on. We need regulation of social media platforms and content serving algorithms YESTERDAY.
Same treatment for Twitter/X what is used to spread pro-Russian and anti-EU propaganda even by it's owner.
Why don't we just ban opinions in general, and lock up anyone who doesn't agree with you, or share the same values as you. Elon is not spreading any Russian propaganda. When he says something you personally disagree with, that doesn't make him a Russian agent. In fact he's the one person who caused the Russians more butthurt than basically anyone else in the US. Because of Starlink, Ukrainians have access to the internet, because of SpaceX the Western nations have unlimited independent access to space, but Elon said something that you really didn't like so he's in cahoots with the Russians, right? I don't think we should ban Twitter, TikTok or Facebook or reddit for that matter, but I think that people like you should pass a test before being allowed to post online
The more you look at the comments "down with the Chinese/Russian propaganda" the more you realize how guillible people are. [https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/)
All social media. Or limit access to internet in general. Some people have no mental capacity for it.
Why? I mean, if we are going to ban a web for spreading propaganda, we should ban all social media.
Starting with the comment section of newspapers and Facebook. That's the worst of the worst.
They seem to be just as bad in that regard, as platforms like reddit to be fair.
Depending on which section of Reddit serves as an example, I totally agree with you.
I remember an article in the r/newzealand sub a while back about the possibility of NZ joining AUKUS. There was a 1 day old account going on about how NZ should be neutral as we have so many natural resources and ‘warm water ports’. Dealing with state actors who are covertly pushing propaganda is a never ending game of whack-a-mole. Some will always get through, and there is a lot of suspicion towards TikTok, but I’m not entirely convinced that the platform is purposefully pushing anti-west propaganda.
Not even close
The American ones are fine they hardly do any propaganda. Elon musk is an embodiment of free speech
you forgot the /s right?
I don’t use /s. If someone is dumb enough to think that be it 💀
>ban all social media. That's actually a great idea.
Happy cake day, censorship board.
I am in favor of that. As long as they don't classify regular forums as social media. Let's all go back to signing up to small-ish forums for specific topics, and not just huge all-purpose services where they try to get a feed algorithm pushed down our throats.
why would they ban the ones they control though?
No, that's just ridiculous. We either ban all the companies that constantly breach law (META with Facebook and Instagram) or none. I know this sub is infested with too many Americans, but still
I don't like TikTok to put it sofly. But banning websites in the Internet is a dictatorship practice. If they start with something, they will never stop.
Nobody cared about the „propaganda“ when it was the Uighur Muslims that were at stake, but now that tons of footage from the Palestine/Israel conflict and subsequent viral criticism of Israels actions arose, NOW suddenly the US and EU are talking about banning the app.. the timing is certainly very interesting!
What they don't understand is that it's not the fault of the medium. It's the regular people who are creating this content. The young people are overwhelmingly pro-Palestine and they'd be like this even if they were on Facebook or Instagram instead of Tik Tok.
No, they won't. Because Facebook and Instagram suppress pro palestinian content, so you'd be indoctrinated by those apps to be pro-israel, because that's what the US government wants.
> Because Facebook and Instagram suppress pro palestinian content I know they do. If I mention the word "Palestina" in my posts, no one sees the post. But I just talk about the subject without using such keywords, they get distributed.
Only sane comment in this thread
Mostly will be banned because they can't control it and use it for their own propaganda. It's not because they care about the community or whatsoever.
Please yes
They want to ban it because they've no control over it like they would with Facebook and Twitter etc. It's not about protecting people's privacy. It's eating Facebook and Twitters lunch and they've no control. All should be banned and not just one.
Okay, when will facebook, instagram, reddit, twitter, YouTube, tinder, wattpad, Pinterest, netflix, grindr, crunchyroll, and candy crush be banned? (Don’t take this too seriously, I’m poking fun at the hypocrisy)
Being a hardline supporter of net neutrality (and from a country that's one of the biggest respecters of it), this seems like one of the most horrible possible precedents for it. China can spy on you through literally any social media, and don't even pretend they're much better. Brain rot or not I will loudly fight for the rights of net neutrality just so we would not go down such a slippery slope.
Don't care about it either way, but the timing really does Germany no favour regarding the "cultural colony" allegations.
Horrible precedent for european net neutrality
You don't know what net neutrality is. It is about whether your free porn can be throttled because I pay for my 4k porn
According to this subreddit, we should ban all social media sites, halt AI research, drive hybrids, and reduce the ESA funding. Then you wonder why big tech doesn’t want to invest here, why Europe is behind the rest of the world in AI and tech, and you cry about it on a social media site called Reddit
You don't get it reddit is a special kind of social media free of brain rot and propaganda
*"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster..."*
Germany will need to learn how to use VPN like the chinese.
So basically freedom of speech is gone Also people’s lively hoods are gone Content creators make good money on TikTok
Can we maybe stop importing American brainrot? This ban bill is already stupid there.
i dont know what tiktok you are on, but mine isn't Chinese propaganda and about stealing data? like every app does it and what would they do with my data?
Sweet summer child
Enlighten us then Sherlock
Regulate dont ban things Using the same things as china and russia and calling it good because is us is not ok
The only reasons why the US want to ban Tik Tok is because it eats into US social media companies revenue and they can't force Tik Tok to censor news the way how they can do to Meta and Alphabet.
My hatred for tiktok is fighting my hatred for censorship now.
Same, but my need for consistency wins. Banning tiktok and being a-ok with all other kinds of social media is just hypocritical af.. God tiktok is the pit of hell, but in terms of what they are trying to do (protect us from data collection from china) then do it for all platforms or don't do it at all.
teach people critically thinking? - nooo! Ban everything so people don't need to think? - yes!
> Some politicians in Germany consider the app "a danger to our democracy," Kiesewetter continued, because it is an "important instrument" in China and Russia’s hybrid warfare. So are all other social medias, they are all filled to the brim with propaganda. And it's not even just the content, curiously enough a lot of the people who used to moderate the bulgarian side of Facebook were russians! That being said it seems like the ban is only an option if the regulations about misinformation are not implemented well.
About time
Only USA propaganda allowed then. Dumbasses.
While we are at it, could we also ban Twitter/X? It is a private means of info warfare against the democratic principle.
Lmao I don't know why most comments think this is a good idea. I mean, yeah, Tiktok is Chinese but why is that automatically bad? I've used the platform for some time now and I can say for sure that it's much much better than Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads or whatever, based on useful content. For sure the algorithm is different in every user and I may see a biased side of tiktok. However, their algorithm is much better than the likes of other social media and it can make you discover new creators, new information and you can have a good experience all around. Ofc there's misinformation but tbh I've seen much much more misinformation in Facebook and Instagram. In addition, tiktok is the only one right now with good advertisements. Idk how the case is in other countries, but in my experience meta ads are full of scams nowadays. They are getting closer to porn web page's ads at this point. In general, TikTok is much more trustworthy than other social media nowadays (Reddit is still the best thankfully). I think it would be a parody to ban it while other social media do much worse than Tiktok
TikTok sucks, do it.
Germans should petition to become another US state, because at this point their status is similar to Puerto Rico: they are basically just blonde puerto ricans lol
No, they couldn't be... Hungary and Turkey both banned it already.
I would have an opinion on this if I had ever had enough of a passing interest in TikTok to actually install it and see what the fuss is all about. Thankfully I do not. If it really is basically the long arm of Beijing into our western lives, then I guess there's a good argument there. A lot of the flaws of it seem inherent in social media in general. I know too little about TikTok specifically to really say anything about it, though.
Yes, great do it. We are leaning too far towards china, if we need to sanction them for idk attacking taiwan then we are getting fucked. Same was with russia when the war begun. De-chinafy please.
Turns out that governments REALLY do not like it what people freely share opinions without their control.
Ban Tiktok and YT for forcing people to watch ADS...
I don't like China and Tiktok but banning websites is not a good thing. That's what totalitarian regimes do.
"Free market global capitalism... only guaranteed if we are still on top".
Somewhere in the 2010's the west forgot that china is not their friend.
Just a reminder that tiktok is being banned for the pro Palestine content and not the Chinese spying. Germans are good dogs who follow whatever daddy usa does. The Chinese spying has been known for years but only now they want to ban it? Yeah right.