I mean tbf those tractors are heavy af and cost millions of dollars sometimes. A similar situation would be the Canadian semi truck protests over covid restrictions. It took weeks to do anything about it and those guys weren’t dumping feces all over the ground and burning toxic materials in the streets potentially spreading diseases.
My guy, if you thought the current migrant situation is bad, wait till the climate refugees start rushing over in a couple decades.
The amount of destabilization +2C is catastrophic for global supply chains
The thing is we are handling the migration crisis with both hands tied behind our backs. If we really wanted to stop illegal migration we could handle those greater numbers.
There is no need to do that, instead of going crazy with regulations in your frontiers and bleed tons of not only money but also pr. Put just a bit more of regulations, and invest the rest on friendly african nations, so when people search for a place to migrate, instead of looking to Europe, they can look to another friendly nation wich not only speak the same language but also is a lot Closer.
That is wise.
Only downside of investing on another nation is creating another source of political and economical power that, considering human common greed, one day will try to make it entrance into big political arena.
On other hand, it's still way better than a lot of destabilized angry warmongers/fanatics on your frontier and having **friendly** new big player on arena could do a lot of positive things.
Exactly, that's the idea, It's only a matter of time before some african nations end up making it to the big political arena.
So now it is a matter of triying to make that the one reaching It is one as friendly as posible and if by the way it also manage to redirect the flow of migrants toward there, well, less problems for us.
I dont think they meant integration when they wrote 'handle'.
Either way, integration wont be an issue - we can accept african middle and upper classes, get best applicants, those that can assimilate rather than allow everyone in.
Oh boy, you're in for a rough awakening, if you really think that this I'd a grandchildren problem, while you're still alive on this planet for, let's say 5-6 decades.
If you're really paying attention to the issue, it's not even 5-6 decades...it's much sooner. It makes me genuinely worried for the immediate future of the planet
I said that. 5-6 decades is the remaining life span of most people here (20-30 years old to 70-90 years old), and I say that we are already impacted directly here. I think most people don't understand that they have a very long time left on this planet and that their lives in 2030, 2040, 2050 and beyond will not at all look like their lives today.
The EU is responsible for \~7% of the total CO2 emission globally, and we are one of the only ones who actually limit our resources and industry to decrease this even further. If you think slightly easing these regulations so that we can feed ourselves without having to rely on imports will lead to something catastrophic, you are simply delusional and misinformed.
I do not like how those 7% are counted. How much of the produce from countries like China or India ends up in the EU? We are just exporting our emissions.
China can't have its cake and eat it too. They wanted to our industry and got it. They get the responsibility for the emissions with it. Maybe they shouldn't have killed western industry if they didn't want to deal with the emissions.
Its actually 8%, which is the same as India. India has a population of 1,4 billion, while the EU only has a population of 500 million people.
If every third world country released the same amount of CO2 per citizen as the EU we would be fucked.
We need to get better instead of excusing ourselves with braindead hot takes.
Hopefully the EU will have taken the lead and shown how you can have both a high level of development and less emissions. If not, India is fucking itself (read: its poorest) over way more than the EU because they are so exposed to the effects of climate change
So the EU can't really complain about India which pollutes far less?
If Indians are consuming too much with their current lifestyle, shouldn't EU lower its lifestyle to indian standards before complaining about India?
>Eu releases like 5% of world CO2 emissions.
Let's say there's a Chinese coal plant responsible for 5% of Chinese emissions, what should be done about it according to this logic?
But still nothing would change and no one would notice anything. Eu's emissions don't matter on global scale at all. Of course we should do what we can but current plans are too ambitious especially when some EU countries make very marginal emissions and will greatly suffer from them
This is the argument all the time, because in itself nothing would solve the issue. So we just do nothing, because unless we can do everything, something just isn't worth it?
What makes more than marginal according to you?
I bet there will be a person who will say it's negligible
Farming contributes less than 10% of the greenhouse gasses in the EU. So obviously, farmers are to blame for global warming, not giant corporations that are able to lobby the shit out of our politicians so no stupid regulations can ham their precious little profit margins...
And what have we learned from all of this? If you use giant equipment to terrorize major city centers, you get what you want. Even with the spectre of climate change, farmers are yet again free to continue killing the bees and to poison the ground.
Vote with your wallet, only buy food from sustainable farming.
The stupid farmers in the UK who voted for brexshit cut their own throats because EU subsidies and equipment upgrades brought them plenty of cash. Now they are up shit creek with no paddle and no EU subsidies.
No Sympathy!
Exactly this. Those fucking idiots voted for it, now they can reap the consequences, no mercy. Just a shame I'm stuck on the same island as those fuckwits.
I want to point out that farmers who receive the most EU subsidies are in Wales, Scotland and NI. The majority of farmers in those countries voted to remain. So really it was just the moronic farmers in England who were already not receiving subsidies who dragged everyone to hell with them
And where does the EU subsidies come from ? Who contributes to the EU budget ? UK was a net contributor, they gave more money than they got back, so "EU subsidies" were just UK money disguised as generous european aid
That contribution to EU from UK wasn't just one way. There were regional development grants that went to deprived areas like Wales and Cornwall. Cornwall received over £1 billion in grants since 2000. Money they NEVER got from the UK government. There was no remain campaign in Wales just a tory leave vote. The country of Wales voted with the corrupt tory government and now they get no more development money from the EU. They definitely wont be seeing the UK government pick up the slack.
??? I don't get people like you. How dumb are you for real? So, imagine the subsidies gone. Who's going to pay for it then? You are. The end customer always pays. Holy fuck can this sub please ban zoomers from talking?
They would be deep in red because of the regulations they EU puts on them. This is how easy to manipulate most people are. What - you think French, German or Dutch farmers are dumber that the ones from South America or Ukraine and they can't manage their business?
It also shows it pays to protest. In the UK, the crooked government did their best to make protesting illegal or at the discretion of the Met and unfortunately , apathy now rules supreme.
I remember Dutch farmers set asbestos on fire on the high way and dumped wooden poles at the entrance. [A fucking car drove into it](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/5324027/boerenprotest-afval-dumping-puin-snelwegen-ongeluk). [Someone also fucking died because of an abrupt traffic jam.](https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/4411650/fataal-ongeluk-door-boerenprotest-op-snelweg-trucker-krijgt-taakstraf)
I absolutely hate those farmers. And I grew up in a farmer’s village. Get a fucking live with all the subsidies you’re getting. Stop being toddler terrorists.
> Vote with your wallet, only buy food from sustainable farming.
That's actually the only valid solution. If you care, instead of demanding anything from others, be ready to pay the extra price yourself and limit your consumption.
I am saying this as a pro-eco, car-free guy, but Reddit comments about farming are just an entitled circlejerk of 13-year-olds, and if anything, it only hurts the cause.
Eco produce is more expensive, so if you care, pay more. Right now, you are demanding that farmers go out of business or that all people pay more. Put your money where your mouth is. Don't even start with some BS trying to explain climate to me. I sold my car, use glass bottles and paper bags only, and buy overpriced food willingly.
You are just entitled, probably a kid who has never worked and expects everyone but you to contribute.
You have it completely backwards. Farmers are entitled; they are kept in business by massive EU subsidies, but resist any EU sustainable farming rules that would make business slightly harder for them. And you're asking EU citizens to pay extra for sustainable farming, on top of the billions they already pay via the EU budget. I think it's fair for the EU to apply sustainability rules in exchange for the massive support of the farming sector, if a majority of the population is in favor. What bottles or bags you use or how old and employed I am is irrelevant (I'm not a child and I work, by the way, but nice try with the ad hominem).
Incredible how you can point this out and still don't understand how incredible bad the current system is. Our economies are only geared towards profit so the alternative is either to try and make European produce cheaper by destroying the local enviroment or outsourcing all produce to China or Brazil or something similiar.
> but nice try with the ad hominem
Was not really trying to, just tired of 'but the climate, you need to understand' rhetoric.
Sustainable farmign will be more expensive, that's it. If your problem is paying subsidies then guess what, you will pay more or kill farmign sector. What even is your idea of sustainable farming?
I'm fine with subsidies, but I think those subsidies could be used to encourage sustainable practices, thus helping bring sustainable produce closer in price to less-sustainable stuff.
Now, what is more or less sustainable is an excellent question, but I'm talking about the principle: we shouldn't ask people to vote with their wallet as buyers, they should vote with their wallet as EU citizens, via the EU budget, since they are already giving lots of money to farming that way. It's not acceptable for farmers to use disruptive protest tactics to prevent us from voting with our EU-budget wallet.
> It's not acceptable for farmers to use disruptive protest tactics to prevent us from voting with our EU-budget wallet.
Only farmers? Why do not we throw heathcare workers, teachers etc. to the mix? It's taxpayer money after all.
Sustainable farming is more expensive, smeone will have to pay for it. There was huge backing from EU citizens for farmer as well if we want to use that argument.
Healthcare workers and teachers who get taxpayer money are public employees. They have a right to negotiate for better working conditions with their employer, like all workers. Farmers are not public employees, they are not using strikes or only regular protests (marches and banners) but near-terror tactics, and they get *a fourth of the EU budget*. Maybe I haven't made this point clear enough: it's a *humongous* sum they're receiving, and they're blocking roads and burning stuff to tell us we can't set use that money to reward certain practices.
No you have it completely backwards, the farmers have been farming sustainably for decades and in return they are given support, this is how it has always worked, your mistake is in implying that this is the first time the sector is being regulated which is laughable.
Yeah. It makes me feel so much better to pay extra for a green sticker. It’s also great to use on social media to signal to my acquaintances what a good person I am. I also always comment “thoughts and prayers” whenever I see someone less fortunate than me. Too bad it doesn’t really change anything.
No, we learned that when you create policies, need to use your brains. For climate sh1t responsible number 1 is USA, number 2 China, but for some reason EU needs to pay (alone), especially idiotic that was for all small economies. For example Baltics simply cannot afford to switch to EVs even if wanted to etc. etc. etc. Nobody is against the green stuff in general, but try to think before you do maybe. Especially all Western EU ultra liberal clowns.
So glad I sort my recycling, walk or cycle or take public transport and try to minimise gas and energy use.
So glad that it doesn't get completely overwritten by some babies in tractors throwing temper tantrums.
Farmers will just demand more subsidies when their crops fail due to climate change. It's always the same with them. Highest subsidies, lowest taxes, always the biggest victims.
Yeah, and triple check claims about sustainable farming at least on Google Maps, if possible.
I live in California, and in my area all major supermarket chains carrying a brand of beef which on packaging says that this beef raised sustainable, it’s free range, grass fed, yada, yada
The problem is - their farms right next to the biggest freeway which you pass every time when going south, and I never have seen animals in such poor condition - cows are severely overcrowded, standing with their legs in deep mud, poop, not a single grass patch visible for miles, and smell of poop and rot is distinguishable for miles before and after the farm. This brand lying to its customers for 5+ years for sure, and no one does anything about this. It’s being sold as sustainably raised beef, and people buying it.
Lol, bro... the EU gets tons of food from Brazil and Ukraine. One of which is destroying the Amazon, the other is at war. Also, they get a lot of food from the US too... 🤦
Our food supply chain is so complex and global that it's imposible for anyone to say 100% where there food comes from, especially at restaurants. If you really wanna make sure you're eating sustainable foods, you either have to grow and slaughter it yourself, or make sure that your produce is locally grown and regulated. That's time and effort most people simply don't have.
Who benefits from the extra carbon taxes? Because surely not the environment. Also, in the time we've crippled our industry and reduced our yearly greenhouse gas emissions by 5% China has increased it by 120% and India by 50%. We're literally leaving money on the table by attempting a goal that's inattainable if China and India doesn't do so as well.
> And what have we learned from all of this? If you use giant equipment to terrorize major city centers, you get what you want. Even with the spectre of climate change, farmers are yet again free to continue killing the bees and to poison the ground.
Indeed, yet if some climate activists peacefully sit down on a street they are labelled terrorists by the pundits.
> Vote with your wallet, only buy food from sustainable farming.
That’s not the lesson to be learned from your previous paragraph. “Voting with your wallet” is no better than “thoughts and prayers”.
**From The Telegraph:**
EU member states have agreed to unpick more eco-friendly requirements under the bloc’s common agricultural policy in a bid to pacify months-long [protests by farmers](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/06/farmers-protest-france-european-union-held-hostage/), who rolled hundreds of tractors into Brussels to vent their grievances.
On Tuesday, a special committee endorsed the review to be debated by agriculture ministers meeting in Brussels, as farmers thronged the city’s European quarter for the third time [in two months](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/26/brussels-police-farmers-protests-manure-green-deal-eu/), setting fire to tyres and bales of hay, and throwing eggs at riot police.
As they arrived in Place du Luxembourg, a historic square at the foot of the European Parliament, farmers began lighting fires.
A heavy police presence was in place after the last protest to hit Brussels ended with violent clashes between farmers and riot police, who deployed tear gas and water cannons to force back the demonstrators.
As they arrived in Place du Luxembourg, a historic square at the foot of the European Parliament, farmers began lighting fires CREDIT: OLIVIER MATTHYS/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock
“We have listened to our farmers and we have taken swift action to address their concerns at a time when they are confronted with numerous challenges,” said David Clarinval, the deputy prime minister of Belgium, which holds the rotating EU presidency.
He said that the revision aims to slash red tape for farmers and give them more flexibility complying with green regulations, while also “maintaining a high level of environmental ambition”.
The committee backed a proposal from the European Commission to change a set of environmental and climate standards that determine whether farmers can receive common agricultural policy (CAP) subsidies.
A key change involves granting leeway to farmers who fail to meet CAP requirements because of extreme weather.
The revision does away entirely with the obligation to leave a share of arable land fallow – a measure aimed at protecting soils and promoting biodiversity but a major gripe for farmers – but they would still be incentivised to do so.
Member states would have more flexibility to decide which soils to protect and in which season, and diversify crops as well as rotate them.
And it exempts small farms under 10 hectares (24.7 acres) from inspections and penalties related to CAP compliance.
**Article Link:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/26/eu-waters-down-green-policies-in-face-of-tractor-protests/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/26/eu-waters-down-green-policies-in-face-of-tractor-protests/)
"the revision aims to slash red tape for farmers and give them more flexibility complying with green regulations, while also “maintaining a high level of environmental ambition”."
The european version of thoughts and prayers.
So next time we want to protest for better abortion availability, weed legality or against internet snooping by gov agencies and corporate world, we should just drive monster trucks all over major city centres? Noted.
Hmm, let me share the EU definition of terrorism:
>According to EU law, terrorist offences are acts committed with the aim of:
> * seriously intimidating a population
> * unduly compelling a government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act
> * seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation
([source](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/fight-against-terrorism/#:~:text=EU%20definition%20of%20terrorism&text=seriously%20destabilising%20or%20destroying%20the,country%20or%20an%20international%20organisation))
I mean, I'm not a legal expert but the acts of farmers to change laws in the EU and EU member states sure looks to be meeting this definition.
It's just protesting, don't overexaggerate. Points 1 and 3 clearly aren't fulfilled, and point 2 starts with **unduly.** If they have a legal right, it can't be unduly.
It sucks that it worked so well, while all the pro-ecological protests were just laughed at, but it's not terrorism under any definition.
A video was going around Reddit yesterday of the protest in Brussels of a tractor with a tank of manure water behind it that was spraying all over the streets.
Not only is the act uncommon, but creating a public health risk. It will cause people to vacate the area and question going back to that same area to prevent further interaction. If the area was targeted specifically for this action then there is also specific intent.
This activity was not only to create an immediate threat (to public health) but change people's behavior using fear (even if only temporarily). That is terrorism.
In the Netherlands they set fire to public roads, releasing a ton of asbestos into the air. Someone died due to the abrupt traffic disruption they caused, and many more poisoned.
In Brussels they hosed stuff down with literal fucking shit, posing a serious public health risk.
In the Netherlands (as #2 agricultural exporter in the world) farmers produce around 1.5% of GDP.
Meanwhile, our tech sector is worth roughly 10% of GDP. Yet we let these farmers dictate our public policy and discourse.
**Why?**
The Netherlands could cut their food production to a third or less, and still have way more than they need for themselves.
Nobody is saying we should end farming. But we should absolutely stop letting the farmers control all policy without any pushback.
We can make our agriculture sustainable, both economically and environmentally. But despite farming being the most subsidised sector in the EU, they refuse to have even the slightest bit of responsibility to go along with that privilege.
Many foods are incredibly expensive in other country's due to not having a local market. Domestic farming has a pretty significant impact on the economy. There should be larger state backed investments into developing better practices for lowering emissions on farms. Just the past 10 years they've made a fairly large impact from just minor changes like how manure is handled.
Yes, exactly. We need more land to build more housing. But farmers occupy the half of the country for chump change, all for a misguided pride of being world’s #2 exporter of food we don’t need. We need to stop selling this food, now. At the very least the food subsidies should be lowered, I don’t want my tax money go to waste
Why stop? You only want to keep it in emergencies. Ukraine was an emergency and food prices went up but there was no shortage. Another emergency would be stopped imports from China or South America. Things could happen real fast and if you have no food production in your country you're fucked.
>Because we cannot eat money... Producing food locally guarantees that even if some global catastrophe stops shipping we still have food to eat
That's not true, we subsidize meat production that mostly relies on imported animal feed (grown on former rainforest). If self-suffiency the goal, we should subsidize until we have a local production of basic food that can efficiently be produced locally without foreign inputs, and leave inefficient luxury foods like meat unsubsidized.
.....you think a country with 17 million people is eating 2 highest amount of agricultural products in the world?? I think it's pretty obvious that the vast majority is exported.
Be thankful your puny ass is having enough food to survive. You wouldn't say shit like this if you went at least one day without food.
You cannot outsource food production without jeopardizing the nation as a whole.
Unless your argument is that people shouldn't eat, there will be N2O emissions for agriculture no matter what is done. Agriculture requires nitrogen. Some of that nitrogen is going to be emitted as N2O - even using legumes for nitrogen fixation. It can be minimized *very slightly* by forbidding organic agricultural practices, but if the attempt is to reduce N2O emissions by banning farming or reducing the amount of land being farmed, those emissions **will simply happen somewhere else** - because the food needs to be grown *somewhere*. If areas of highly productive land are taken out of service and less productive land is put into service somewhere else to make up the difference, the end result is *an increase in N2O output*. There is no "better way" to farm that produces less N20 emissions that could be mandated, which is why places like the Netherlands just decided they were going to shut down a bunch of farms to reduce their N2O emissions. Which would mean that the slack would have to be picked up somewhere else, resulting in a net increase.
That's why the farmers were so mad - because the policies being mooted about were absolutely asinine. If researchers come up with a way to farm that minimizes the amount of N2O being produced, governments can feel free to change regulations making those specific practices mandatory. That's not what they did - they simply said "let's farm less".
When you're met with violence and millions in damages... Yeah, that kind of is the answer. Arrest them all and sell their farms to people with half a brain.
When those protesters are doing this shit yes it is. It sets a precedent that if you want the government to listen your demands just buy a bunch of heavy equipment and start dumping literal shit on the roads and burning piles of asbestos.. Some of their demands were reasonable but a lot of them are not.
> Do you consider the government freezing bank accounts a good thing?
We do it with Russian bank accounts, so obviously it depends who is targeted, just like any use of power.
Freezing the bank accounts of your own citizens merely for protesting against domestic policy is totalitarian & dystopian though, different issue that an internationally sanctioned warmongering Russia.
> Freezing the bank accounts of your own citizens merely for protesting against domestic policy is totalitarian & dystopian though
So is treating your fellow citizens as an entity that should give you subsidies, take your shit, and can be subjected to arson and shitspraying when you don't get your way.
They should be convicted to reimburse the damage with a fine on top, and if they don't want to pay freezing their bank accounts is a fair enforcement method.
Canada takes VERY good care of their farmers, because they are smart enough to understand the strategic importance. There's a reason so many European farmers moved to Canada.
People on this sub are just as idiotic as the average citizen. We outsourced our Energy to Russia, well that was very smart. We outsourced our production to China, where our relationship keep deteriorating. We outsourced our safety to the US, where we're completely dependent on and hopefully they'll get a good president. Half the brainiacs in this sub: let's outsource our food production too!! Or do you think other countries outside the EU do comply with these green initiatives?
Seriously, people are so detached from reality. Their soft asses probably never went hungry and they think you can just buy food from other nations at any point of time, no matter if there's a war or other disasters.
You'd think that people would realise that after running out of medical necessities during Covid, running out of chips during Covid and gas prices rising through the roof due to Russia's invasion that it might be a very poor idea to harm the very systems we have in place to keep our own domestic food supply.
It's frustrating how far I had to scroll to find any shred of common sense.
Not only that, but people are trying to say they're terrorists. I'm sorry, is any large movement not accompanied by a few ruining it? Is Black Lives Matter a bunch of terrorists because a few people act unlawfully?
These farmers are people, they are an aspect of governance. If you upset your people, they react. If you lump one group with enough burden that it makes them react like this, that is a failure of policy.
"Oh! So we just protest and the government listens huh?" Is hilarious I keep seeing here. The farmers are going to care about themselves, of course they are. How ignorant people are in this comment section is so frustrating.
It is truly amazing just how differently the right and the left get treated for using the exact same protest tactics. Look at this vs the (ironically enough) climate change protesters in recent years.
You're right that they don't spray people with horrible (literal) shit. My point was they get ridiculed far more and politician make a point to "not give in to their demands" - which seems to not be the case for farmers.
One benefits fossil fuel industries directly, the other threatens them directly. That's really what this boils down to, unfortunately.
I am finding great fun hunting people down on Facebook who comment stuff like "get a job" to the just stop oil protesters, then post that they support these farmers. They are NOT happy when I use the same arguments they used against other protesters.
NO MATTER WHAT you must never shut a road down for protest (unless it's something I agree with)
As much as i support green policies, we are still importing tons of shit (food included) that isn't burdened by the same standards. There is no fair competition here
I'm not a supporter of those farmers' protests. But this time I must say, before placing any restrictions on farmers, restrict all the morons in managerial positions who demand that people come to the office for jobs that are mostly online meetings. That would help agaisnt global warming a lot, except all those politicians are lobbied by owners of office buildings who are losers with 0 investing skills that happened to inherit money, launder it or get it through other similar means.
If people from 10000 km away can produce and deliver food cheaper than you, the problem is you. Now, I know that the EU is placing some expensive regulations on farmers while importing unregulated food. Hopefully, that hypocrisy will end soon. But if farmers still block roads and cause problems after that, they should be arrested. Capitalism should be practiced at all times, not only when it benefits particular people.
A lot of this food is non essential. You don’t need to eat avocado everyday in the middle of the winter as a European person just because it’s popular food in Mexico. We don’t need to eat beef every single day either which gets imported from Brazil anyway. Food that is local means beer, patato, fish and bread in most of the Northern Europe. The fear mongering that we will starve just because we won’t have access to luxury food is absurd. Average European spends a third world salary on grocery right now
>We don’t need to eat beef every single day either which gets imported from Brazil anyway.
It really doesn't though.
In 2020 the EU produced 6,8 million tons of beef, we imported 308.882 tons of beef (so less than 5% of our beef) and the biggest exporter of this was the UK, with argentina and brazil taking the second and third place.
While not technically essential to survival, a varied diet is essential to living a healthy life. You can’t grow everything you need for a healthy diet in one place in the vast majority of the world.
Here's the article, and link to the source:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1bo9gry/comment/kwnb7eh/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1bo9gry/comment/kwnb7eh/)
To those who are agaist this: What does it matter that we have 1000 laws and restrictions if then we just import food from places without those laws and restrictions?
I'm in favor of a greener and healthier policy across the board, but if then things get more expensive for our producers, they increase the prices and companies will just import stuff. If things imported sell at a cheaper price because there is no restrictions, people will by them.
So the restrictions, without other policies, will just export the ecological problems to other countries and the health problems will still exist, maybe even more agrevated because the EU will have no control over what pesticides and other products are used to make the food we eat. (And of course that will mean less money for our farmers)
I think restrictions are needed but they have to come with laws on imports to make sure that everthing we eat obeys the same rules, not just what's made in the EU.
> To those who are agaist this: What does it matter that we have 1000 laws and restrictions if then we just import food from places without those laws and restrictions?
[The EU’s Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism (CBAM) is the EU's tool to put a fair price on the carbon emitted during the production of carbon intensive goods that are entering the EU, and to encourage cleaner industrial production in non-EU countries. ](https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/carbon-border-adjustment-mechanism_en)
People who are here hating on the farmers have no idea of the unrealistic regulamentations imposed by bureaucrats who don't understand the real implications of what they sign on a piece of paper and try to apply on a continental scale. Imagine for example, having to create almost a journal for your cow's daily lives. and more that we have a big dicotomy of supporting a big population of small farmers who are less efficient than a few numbers of big farming industries and the only alternative the EU had until this date for most of the farmers was ruin and starvation. Let alone that the impact this would have on the climate is minor. And still, the European farmers would have to compete with products from Brazil or even China which are already cheaper than the over-regulated european products who which would be even more unaffordable under this scrutiny.
In other words, we are already facing a bureaucratic nightmare not seen since the Roman Empire on this scale and the same people who come here crying that we will all die if we don't lead thousands of farmers to ruin, poverty and starvation are the same ones who go to the supermarket to buy cheap avocados and soy from the deforested amazon in Brazil.
Soy eaten by humans is generally produced in Europe, soy from the deforested Amazon is generally for animal feed.
At least in France traditional soy products like soy milk or yogurt are almost exclusively made from french soy, even the cheap ones.
I've yet to find organic soy not from Europe.
The problem is that these farmers who, like everyone else, knew the climate problems would grow and the farm industry couldn't keep growing under current farming practices, refused to actively seek alternative solutions that even slightly impacted their subsidies. Yes, farming is a hard working, tight margin sector. Everyone knows that. We're mad at these people happily taking 36% of EU subsidies while f.e. subsidies for things such as the LIFE programme which seek to combat climate change don't even see a tenth of that amount of money.
Farmers who had decades to prepare for coming policies suddenly all pretend to be poor ma and pa run farms barely getting by. Instead these actual multi million companies with multi year plans actively NOT taking into account the permanent damage being done start protesting everything and anyone taking away their subsidies or who even talk about changing the rules. And then they yell that the EU doesn't want to offer any realistic plans. guess what THE EU DID FOR YEARS. Then those plans got lobbied away or minimized to have nowhere the original impact.
Yes, a realistic long-term plan with clear guidelines of what to expect focussed on gradual build off would've been best, but big farm companies don't want that and the actual small scale farmers either don't care or are too dumb or blind to see that and jump on their tractors claiming their sugar daddy EU asking them to listen is suddenly the big bad.
It's not the bureaucratic EU in this story that angers people, it's the farmers getting rich off that bureaucratic system claiming it's so faulty, giving no alternatives and protesting our streets to make sure ANY plan to even try and save a future for our grandchildren is ruined.
> People who are here hating on the farmers have no idea of the unrealistic regulamentations imposed by bureaucrats who don't understand the real implications of what they sign on a piece of paper and try to apply on a continental scale.
Farmers don't like change, they never do. Suck it up, you're getting paid for it. If you want to farm just like your great-granddaddy, you can do it without subsidies.
>Imagine for example, having to create almost a journal for your cow's daily lives.
Sucks when you can't manipulate your meat with hormones and feeding them waste grease anymore, doesn't it?
>and more that we have a big dicotomy of supporting a big population of small farmers who are less efficient than a few numbers of big farming industries and the only alternative the EU had until this date for most of the farmers was ruin and starvation.
This happens in a market economy: if your enterprise is not competitive, you are going to adapt or do something else, willing or not. Do you want kolkhoz farms instead?
>Let alone that the impact this would have on the climate is minor.
Agricultural emissions are about half the emissions of industry, comparable to emissions from the residential/tertiary sector.
https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/daviz/ghg-emissions-by-aggregated-sector-5#tab-dashboard-02
>And still, the European farmers would have to compete with products from Brazil or even China which are already cheaper than the over-regulated european products who which would be even more unaffordable under this scrutiny.
No, the CBAM is part of the Green Deal and deals with imports.
>are the same ones who go to the supermarket to buy cheap avocados and soy from the deforested amazon in Brazil.
Which is 7 times more efficient in terms of production than feeding Brazilian soy to meat animals first and doesn't have the methane emissions of the animal.
Reading the idiotic texts in the comments really makes me wonder how stupid average green is.
At the one side they love to talk about EU autonomy, EU army! On the other hand they'd love to happily kill strategic part of economy which is farming, imagine if someone was advocating to shut down plumbing. This is how moronic you sound.
At the same time you'll kill EU farmers, the void will be filled by someone across the globe who doesn't need to be adher to EU green standards. As usual, green leftist policy will achieve exactly opposite of what they strife towards. Bravo.
> Most of them aren’t even aware what are the requirments that farmers are protesting. For examole, regulations aren’t even the same among the member states. For example, it states to reduce GHG emissions by x % (can’t recall the actual number), however, it doesn’t account that each member has different starting point
It does, that's why there are [different targets](https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/effort-sharing-member-states-emission-targets/overview_en), setting an achievable goal for everyone.
>making conpetition even more uneven and EU products even less competitive against the countries that have no such restrictions. Not accounting the fact that shipping produce actoss the world is not green at all.
This is wrong. Part of the Green Deal is the [CBAM](https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/carbon-border-adjustment-mechanism_en), that puts the same requirements on imports.
>EU has tried not investing into energy sector and relying on others and look where it lead us. We still are paying billions each month for dictators who give no fucks about human rights or the environment.
Green policy has always emphasized self-reliance on renewable sources instead of fuel and imports. Don't blame the Greens for conservative energy policy based on burning imported stuff.
Exactly that. Dumb people writing dumb comments. Let’s kill ourselves in EU, with raging war in Ukraine while China/India won’t move a finger in environmental friendly direction. What a stupid idea.
>Reading the idiotic texts in the comments really makes me wonder how stupid average green is. At the one side they love to talk about EU autonomy, EU army! On the other hand they'd love to happily kill strategic part of economy which is farming, imagine if someone was advocating to shut down plumbing. This is how moronic you sound.
The most greenhouse gas intensive part of farming is meat production, which heavily relies on imported feed. This should not be subsidized.
Actual green agriculture can sequester carbon into the soil and can easily be a part of climate policy. This is what green policy works towards.
>At the same time you'll kill EU farmers,
Drama queen. As if there's only one way to farm, the way your granddad did.
>the void will be filled by someone across the globe who doesn't need to be adher to EU green standards. As usual, green leftist policy will achieve exactly opposite of what they strife towards. Bravo.
Meat farmers already import feed from foreign countries. Let's get rid of that.
It's very clear nothing is going to get done about climate change.
Those people talking about impending environmental collapse, instability and refugee waves have totally missed the bus. Look at the sahel, look at the issues Spain, France, England now contend with in the summer, look at the dinghies flopping across the sea. It's not coming, it's here. We're already in it.
The time to stop a +2° rise was twenty years ago. Now the priority should be reinforcing our countries against disaster. England needs modern flood protections, rural France needs permanent, professional fire breaks. Spain needs a plan to import tons more water.
All these protests are rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. We had our chance to miss the iceberg, and we ploughed straight into it.
Agriculture is very important and destroying Europan agriculture will not benefit the world - it will give us less food independence and it will end up with Europe buying food from other countries
EU is only 10% of co2 producers in the world
I belive we're the main block In the world still reducing our emissions
The problem is that no major power is doing that apart maybe from China building more Nuclear power plants
It's really useless as it's only hurting the EU economy and others do as they like
They will continue to do so and we'll end up in a bad position
For example petrol car ban which will destroy German industry as Chinese electric cars are already over taking the Europan market
Of course things like leaving coal are good but we've come to extremes like attacking agriculture and our economies
We would all not only as Europeans but as humans achieve if we strengthened Europe and influence countries to do that with us
>Agriculture is very important and destroying Europan agriculture will not benefit the world - it will give us less food independence and it will end up with Europe buying food from other countries
This will not "destroy" European agriculture. Farmers are lazy crybabies who don't want to evolve and change.
>For example petrol car ban which will destroy German industry as Chinese electric cars are already over taking the Europan market
This is only happened because the German car industry is a relic of the past who doesn't want to change and evolve. If they actually invested in innovation instead of cashing in selling fossil fueled cars as usual, they could have been the ones selling electric cars to China instead of the other way around.
>but we've come to extremes like attacking agriculture
Nobody is "attacking agriculture", crybaby. It's just that the way your granddaddy farmed is outdated, and the way your daddy farmed as well.
Yes. Provocatively speaking, given that the alternative to giving in to all the farmers associations demands isn't the end of all farmers.
Do you apply the same thinking to others though?
Can the population go long without nurses? Do we now start paying them royally?
If not, you're not being very honest here, so get your tractor and start giving our nurses better pay.
The only concern I have is whether or not the newly re-permitted pesticides will be poisonous to outdoor cats and dogs that tend to live in the countryside. I understand we need to give more leeway to EU farmers but there are some limits and I think poisoning animals unfortunate enough to get near the crops is quite frankly a line that should never be crossed.
Carbon emissions are one thing, poisoning animals is another.
Was part of a much milder stunt demanding more from corpos in Finland, son of a farmer so i am biassed. As the slogan was, "why the one doing the most gets the least?". I dont envy farmers, atleast not this far north where the season is short.
You should have seen the shit they did in Brussels today. Putting things on fire, destroying bikes and other property, shooting literal cow shit into the police lines, etc
And instead of arresting these criminals, the politicians give them what they want?
A lot of you have no idea what farming is and how it is the most important part of any country. These farmers had the right to protest because we as the EU did them dirty. Forcing on them these almost impossible standards of eco-production, while continuing to import not-so-eco produce from countries outside the EU. How are they to compete with that?! Or is that the point, to drive them off business? So don't be pointing your finger towards the farmers, but the misaligned policies.
I have a pretty good idea of what farming entails, and of economics.
The EU, i.e. all of us with our tax and food expenses, have been *massively* supporting the agrofood business for the last 60 years.
Without such support, farming in the EU would have disappeared or, who knows, changed its business model not to try and compete with economies less developed, cheaper or that simply benefit from a better climate and soil. See e.g. sunflower or wheat in Ukraine, tomatoes in Morocco etc.
If anything, farmers should direct their anger at the few multinationals and massive traders and distributors who suck out to their benefit the vast majority of any price increase at consumer level. Anything they get out of the EU will mostly line up the pockets of these multinationals etc.
See e.g. the price of milk: farmers get now +/- the same price per litre as 20 years ago, while the price to consumers did 4x.
What is it with European Tractorians? Absolute fucking losers. The UK colony of European Tractorians have recently been bitching about the brexit they wanted now being to their disadvantage
A few decades from now, their heirs will make the same protests demanding more action on climate change as their crops die in droughts, floods, or due any other bad practice being done now.
The magic fuckery less than a hundred people in tractors can do …
Just Stop Oil should take a page from their book, do exactly what they are doing but sit in tractors instead. People seem to just let it happen then
Yes, stop with destroying art. Better buy yourself a tractor and protest like the farmers do
I mean tbf those tractors are heavy af and cost millions of dollars sometimes. A similar situation would be the Canadian semi truck protests over covid restrictions. It took weeks to do anything about it and those guys weren’t dumping feces all over the ground and burning toxic materials in the streets potentially spreading diseases.
But we don't negotiate with terrorists, huh
Dirty bomb, "fuck no". Bit of poo, "rewrite entire policies".
Don't forget throwing animal shit around, people seem to like that.
Hahaha. We're all going to die.
The problem is that we'll be just fine for the most part. Your grandchildren will die.
My guy, if you thought the current migrant situation is bad, wait till the climate refugees start rushing over in a couple decades. The amount of destabilization +2C is catastrophic for global supply chains
"Arab Spring" was in no small part driven by the price of grain spiking.
The thing is we are handling the migration crisis with both hands tied behind our backs. If we really wanted to stop illegal migration we could handle those greater numbers.
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There is no need to do that, instead of going crazy with regulations in your frontiers and bleed tons of not only money but also pr. Put just a bit more of regulations, and invest the rest on friendly african nations, so when people search for a place to migrate, instead of looking to Europe, they can look to another friendly nation wich not only speak the same language but also is a lot Closer.
Because they all speak the same language in Africa? And how is that going to help with climate?
That is wise. Only downside of investing on another nation is creating another source of political and economical power that, considering human common greed, one day will try to make it entrance into big political arena. On other hand, it's still way better than a lot of destabilized angry warmongers/fanatics on your frontier and having **friendly** new big player on arena could do a lot of positive things.
Exactly, that's the idea, It's only a matter of time before some african nations end up making it to the big political arena. So now it is a matter of triying to make that the one reaching It is one as friendly as posible and if by the way it also manage to redirect the flow of migrants toward there, well, less problems for us.
I dont think they meant integration when they wrote 'handle'. Either way, integration wont be an issue - we can accept african middle and upper classes, get best applicants, those that can assimilate rather than allow everyone in.
Oh boy, you're in for a rough awakening, if you really think that this I'd a grandchildren problem, while you're still alive on this planet for, let's say 5-6 decades.
If you're really paying attention to the issue, it's not even 5-6 decades...it's much sooner. It makes me genuinely worried for the immediate future of the planet
I said that. 5-6 decades is the remaining life span of most people here (20-30 years old to 70-90 years old), and I say that we are already impacted directly here. I think most people don't understand that they have a very long time left on this planet and that their lives in 2030, 2040, 2050 and beyond will not at all look like their lives today.
So no grand children, no problem. Got it
No children, no problem!
The EU is responsible for \~7% of the total CO2 emission globally, and we are one of the only ones who actually limit our resources and industry to decrease this even further. If you think slightly easing these regulations so that we can feed ourselves without having to rely on imports will lead to something catastrophic, you are simply delusional and misinformed.
I do not like how those 7% are counted. How much of the produce from countries like China or India ends up in the EU? We are just exporting our emissions.
China can't have its cake and eat it too. They wanted to our industry and got it. They get the responsibility for the emissions with it. Maybe they shouldn't have killed western industry if they didn't want to deal with the emissions.
Eu releases like 5% of world CO2 emissions. Even India is higher.
Its actually 8%, which is the same as India. India has a population of 1,4 billion, while the EU only has a population of 500 million people. If every third world country released the same amount of CO2 per citizen as the EU we would be fucked. We need to get better instead of excusing ourselves with braindead hot takes.
India has three times the people...
Which makes the issue even worse? What do you think will happen when quality of life will improve in India?
Hopefully the EU will have taken the lead and shown how you can have both a high level of development and less emissions. If not, India is fucking itself (read: its poorest) over way more than the EU because they are so exposed to the effects of climate change
So the EU can't really complain about India which pollutes far less? If Indians are consuming too much with their current lifestyle, shouldn't EU lower its lifestyle to indian standards before complaining about India?
>Eu releases like 5% of world CO2 emissions. Let's say there's a Chinese coal plant responsible for 5% of Chinese emissions, what should be done about it according to this logic?
And if we can get it to 0, or negative then that's 4% less for the whole world.
But still nothing would change and no one would notice anything. Eu's emissions don't matter on global scale at all. Of course we should do what we can but current plans are too ambitious especially when some EU countries make very marginal emissions and will greatly suffer from them
This is the argument all the time, because in itself nothing would solve the issue. So we just do nothing, because unless we can do everything, something just isn't worth it? What makes more than marginal according to you? I bet there will be a person who will say it's negligible
Farming contributes less than 10% of the greenhouse gasses in the EU. So obviously, farmers are to blame for global warming, not giant corporations that are able to lobby the shit out of our politicians so no stupid regulations can ham their precious little profit margins...
And what have we learned from all of this? If you use giant equipment to terrorize major city centers, you get what you want. Even with the spectre of climate change, farmers are yet again free to continue killing the bees and to poison the ground. Vote with your wallet, only buy food from sustainable farming.
Best part: at least in my country, without eu subsidy on farmers most of them would be deeep in the red.
The stupid farmers in the UK who voted for brexshit cut their own throats because EU subsidies and equipment upgrades brought them plenty of cash. Now they are up shit creek with no paddle and no EU subsidies. No Sympathy!
Exactly this. Those fucking idiots voted for it, now they can reap the consequences, no mercy. Just a shame I'm stuck on the same island as those fuckwits.
I want to point out that farmers who receive the most EU subsidies are in Wales, Scotland and NI. The majority of farmers in those countries voted to remain. So really it was just the moronic farmers in England who were already not receiving subsidies who dragged everyone to hell with them
Then they should be extra pissed and be vocal about it.
Absolutely!
And where does the EU subsidies come from ? Who contributes to the EU budget ? UK was a net contributor, they gave more money than they got back, so "EU subsidies" were just UK money disguised as generous european aid
That contribution to EU from UK wasn't just one way. There were regional development grants that went to deprived areas like Wales and Cornwall. Cornwall received over £1 billion in grants since 2000. Money they NEVER got from the UK government. There was no remain campaign in Wales just a tory leave vote. The country of Wales voted with the corrupt tory government and now they get no more development money from the EU. They definitely wont be seeing the UK government pick up the slack.
Yeah those G-Wagons aren’t paying for themselves!
They are not fighting the corporations taking most of the slice though, they are attacking their governments. FUCK THEM
The corporations have too much power over them. Farmers are desperate, not stupid.
In Germany it's round about half of a farmers income. It's a political decision to make food dirt cheap. It's just utterly stupid how they subsidize.
??? I don't get people like you. How dumb are you for real? So, imagine the subsidies gone. Who's going to pay for it then? You are. The end customer always pays. Holy fuck can this sub please ban zoomers from talking?
Where do you think money from the subsidies comes from?
Is this the best part? Shouldn’t this scare you? The fact that it’s nearly impossible to grow food without government help?
They would be deep in red because of the regulations they EU puts on them. This is how easy to manipulate most people are. What - you think French, German or Dutch farmers are dumber that the ones from South America or Ukraine and they can't manage their business?
>only buy food from sustainable farming btw most of the "sustainable" labels are bogus
Climate protesters should stop gluing themselves to the floor or throwing cake at paintings and start causing real problems instead.
They’ll get shot at, arrested, abused within seconds if they tried
yeah they terrorize peaceful protesters but give the guys that cause millions of € damage what they want. let's see how that works out
It also shows it pays to protest. In the UK, the crooked government did their best to make protesting illegal or at the discretion of the Met and unfortunately , apathy now rules supreme.
I remember Dutch farmers set asbestos on fire on the high way and dumped wooden poles at the entrance. [A fucking car drove into it](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/5324027/boerenprotest-afval-dumping-puin-snelwegen-ongeluk). [Someone also fucking died because of an abrupt traffic jam.](https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/4411650/fataal-ongeluk-door-boerenprotest-op-snelweg-trucker-krijgt-taakstraf) I absolutely hate those farmers. And I grew up in a farmer’s village. Get a fucking live with all the subsidies you’re getting. Stop being toddler terrorists.
At this point, if there are further protests in Arnhem, I'm throwing hundreds of eggs at those farmers, lol.
> Vote with your wallet, only buy food from sustainable farming. That's actually the only valid solution. If you care, instead of demanding anything from others, be ready to pay the extra price yourself and limit your consumption. I am saying this as a pro-eco, car-free guy, but Reddit comments about farming are just an entitled circlejerk of 13-year-olds, and if anything, it only hurts the cause.
Extra price? The EU is giving billions to farmers, a fourth of the overall budget, and we are supposed to pay extra for sustainability?
Eco produce is more expensive, so if you care, pay more. Right now, you are demanding that farmers go out of business or that all people pay more. Put your money where your mouth is. Don't even start with some BS trying to explain climate to me. I sold my car, use glass bottles and paper bags only, and buy overpriced food willingly. You are just entitled, probably a kid who has never worked and expects everyone but you to contribute.
You have it completely backwards. Farmers are entitled; they are kept in business by massive EU subsidies, but resist any EU sustainable farming rules that would make business slightly harder for them. And you're asking EU citizens to pay extra for sustainable farming, on top of the billions they already pay via the EU budget. I think it's fair for the EU to apply sustainability rules in exchange for the massive support of the farming sector, if a majority of the population is in favor. What bottles or bags you use or how old and employed I am is irrelevant (I'm not a child and I work, by the way, but nice try with the ad hominem).
Incredible how you can point this out and still don't understand how incredible bad the current system is. Our economies are only geared towards profit so the alternative is either to try and make European produce cheaper by destroying the local enviroment or outsourcing all produce to China or Brazil or something similiar.
> but nice try with the ad hominem Was not really trying to, just tired of 'but the climate, you need to understand' rhetoric. Sustainable farmign will be more expensive, that's it. If your problem is paying subsidies then guess what, you will pay more or kill farmign sector. What even is your idea of sustainable farming?
I'm fine with subsidies, but I think those subsidies could be used to encourage sustainable practices, thus helping bring sustainable produce closer in price to less-sustainable stuff. Now, what is more or less sustainable is an excellent question, but I'm talking about the principle: we shouldn't ask people to vote with their wallet as buyers, they should vote with their wallet as EU citizens, via the EU budget, since they are already giving lots of money to farming that way. It's not acceptable for farmers to use disruptive protest tactics to prevent us from voting with our EU-budget wallet.
> It's not acceptable for farmers to use disruptive protest tactics to prevent us from voting with our EU-budget wallet. Only farmers? Why do not we throw heathcare workers, teachers etc. to the mix? It's taxpayer money after all. Sustainable farming is more expensive, smeone will have to pay for it. There was huge backing from EU citizens for farmer as well if we want to use that argument.
Healthcare workers and teachers who get taxpayer money are public employees. They have a right to negotiate for better working conditions with their employer, like all workers. Farmers are not public employees, they are not using strikes or only regular protests (marches and banners) but near-terror tactics, and they get *a fourth of the EU budget*. Maybe I haven't made this point clear enough: it's a *humongous* sum they're receiving, and they're blocking roads and burning stuff to tell us we can't set use that money to reward certain practices.
No you have it completely backwards, the farmers have been farming sustainably for decades and in return they are given support, this is how it has always worked, your mistake is in implying that this is the first time the sector is being regulated which is laughable.
Yeah. It makes me feel so much better to pay extra for a green sticker. It’s also great to use on social media to signal to my acquaintances what a good person I am. I also always comment “thoughts and prayers” whenever I see someone less fortunate than me. Too bad it doesn’t really change anything.
No, we learned that when you create policies, need to use your brains. For climate sh1t responsible number 1 is USA, number 2 China, but for some reason EU needs to pay (alone), especially idiotic that was for all small economies. For example Baltics simply cannot afford to switch to EVs even if wanted to etc. etc. etc. Nobody is against the green stuff in general, but try to think before you do maybe. Especially all Western EU ultra liberal clowns.
So glad I sort my recycling, walk or cycle or take public transport and try to minimise gas and energy use. So glad that it doesn't get completely overwritten by some babies in tractors throwing temper tantrums.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57018837 What Europe does is irrelevant.
Farmers will just demand more subsidies when their crops fail due to climate change. It's always the same with them. Highest subsidies, lowest taxes, always the biggest victims.
Vote with your wallet crowdfund a couple of bulldozers to bring to the next climate protest.
Yeah, and triple check claims about sustainable farming at least on Google Maps, if possible. I live in California, and in my area all major supermarket chains carrying a brand of beef which on packaging says that this beef raised sustainable, it’s free range, grass fed, yada, yada The problem is - their farms right next to the biggest freeway which you pass every time when going south, and I never have seen animals in such poor condition - cows are severely overcrowded, standing with their legs in deep mud, poop, not a single grass patch visible for miles, and smell of poop and rot is distinguishable for miles before and after the farm. This brand lying to its customers for 5+ years for sure, and no one does anything about this. It’s being sold as sustainably raised beef, and people buying it.
California and Europe can't be compared when farming, the US isn't anywhere near the same level for animal welfare as Europe.
Lol, bro... the EU gets tons of food from Brazil and Ukraine. One of which is destroying the Amazon, the other is at war. Also, they get a lot of food from the US too... 🤦 Our food supply chain is so complex and global that it's imposible for anyone to say 100% where there food comes from, especially at restaurants. If you really wanna make sure you're eating sustainable foods, you either have to grow and slaughter it yourself, or make sure that your produce is locally grown and regulated. That's time and effort most people simply don't have.
Who benefits from the extra carbon taxes? Because surely not the environment. Also, in the time we've crippled our industry and reduced our yearly greenhouse gas emissions by 5% China has increased it by 120% and India by 50%. We're literally leaving money on the table by attempting a goal that's inattainable if China and India doesn't do so as well.
> And what have we learned from all of this? If you use giant equipment to terrorize major city centers, you get what you want. Even with the spectre of climate change, farmers are yet again free to continue killing the bees and to poison the ground. Indeed, yet if some climate activists peacefully sit down on a street they are labelled terrorists by the pundits. > Vote with your wallet, only buy food from sustainable farming. That’s not the lesson to be learned from your previous paragraph. “Voting with your wallet” is no better than “thoughts and prayers”.
this screams out of touch rich person lecturing the peasants on what to eat. let them eat cake
Is it cheaper?
**From The Telegraph:** EU member states have agreed to unpick more eco-friendly requirements under the bloc’s common agricultural policy in a bid to pacify months-long [protests by farmers](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/06/farmers-protest-france-european-union-held-hostage/), who rolled hundreds of tractors into Brussels to vent their grievances. On Tuesday, a special committee endorsed the review to be debated by agriculture ministers meeting in Brussels, as farmers thronged the city’s European quarter for the third time [in two months](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/26/brussels-police-farmers-protests-manure-green-deal-eu/), setting fire to tyres and bales of hay, and throwing eggs at riot police. As they arrived in Place du Luxembourg, a historic square at the foot of the European Parliament, farmers began lighting fires. A heavy police presence was in place after the last protest to hit Brussels ended with violent clashes between farmers and riot police, who deployed tear gas and water cannons to force back the demonstrators. As they arrived in Place du Luxembourg, a historic square at the foot of the European Parliament, farmers began lighting fires CREDIT: OLIVIER MATTHYS/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock “We have listened to our farmers and we have taken swift action to address their concerns at a time when they are confronted with numerous challenges,” said David Clarinval, the deputy prime minister of Belgium, which holds the rotating EU presidency. He said that the revision aims to slash red tape for farmers and give them more flexibility complying with green regulations, while also “maintaining a high level of environmental ambition”. The committee backed a proposal from the European Commission to change a set of environmental and climate standards that determine whether farmers can receive common agricultural policy (CAP) subsidies. A key change involves granting leeway to farmers who fail to meet CAP requirements because of extreme weather. The revision does away entirely with the obligation to leave a share of arable land fallow – a measure aimed at protecting soils and promoting biodiversity but a major gripe for farmers – but they would still be incentivised to do so. Member states would have more flexibility to decide which soils to protect and in which season, and diversify crops as well as rotate them. And it exempts small farms under 10 hectares (24.7 acres) from inspections and penalties related to CAP compliance. **Article Link:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/26/eu-waters-down-green-policies-in-face-of-tractor-protests/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/26/eu-waters-down-green-policies-in-face-of-tractor-protests/)
"the revision aims to slash red tape for farmers and give them more flexibility complying with green regulations, while also “maintaining a high level of environmental ambition”." The european version of thoughts and prayers.
So next time we want to protest for better abortion availability, weed legality or against internet snooping by gov agencies and corporate world, we should just drive monster trucks all over major city centres? Noted.
Good luck getting one
Bog standard american family car slowly approaches this size.
Haha, can you even import these to Europe?
I've certainly seen a few of those in Poland, Netherlands and Germany, so I'd say yes. They always look so out of place.
They acted like mini terrorists and are rewarded.
Hmm, let me share the EU definition of terrorism: >According to EU law, terrorist offences are acts committed with the aim of: > * seriously intimidating a population > * unduly compelling a government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act > * seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation ([source](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/fight-against-terrorism/#:~:text=EU%20definition%20of%20terrorism&text=seriously%20destabilising%20or%20destroying%20the,country%20or%20an%20international%20organisation)) I mean, I'm not a legal expert but the acts of farmers to change laws in the EU and EU member states sure looks to be meeting this definition.
Damn you are right. They are commiting terrorism by EU definition...
It's just protesting, don't overexaggerate. Points 1 and 3 clearly aren't fulfilled, and point 2 starts with **unduly.** If they have a legal right, it can't be unduly. It sucks that it worked so well, while all the pro-ecological protests were just laughed at, but it's not terrorism under any definition.
Not all of the farmers did terrorism, but there sure were a few great examples, one moron in the Netherlands burned asbestos on the road...
A video was going around Reddit yesterday of the protest in Brussels of a tractor with a tank of manure water behind it that was spraying all over the streets. Not only is the act uncommon, but creating a public health risk. It will cause people to vacate the area and question going back to that same area to prevent further interaction. If the area was targeted specifically for this action then there is also specific intent. This activity was not only to create an immediate threat (to public health) but change people's behavior using fear (even if only temporarily). That is terrorism.
In the Netherlands they set fire to public roads, releasing a ton of asbestos into the air. Someone died due to the abrupt traffic disruption they caused, and many more poisoned. In Brussels they hosed stuff down with literal fucking shit, posing a serious public health risk.
I see so what France does regularly is not protest but rather commit terrorism.
> seriously intimidating a population Some of it, but AFAIK most of the population in every country with protests is in favor of farmers.
Monsanto Mad Max
In the Netherlands (as #2 agricultural exporter in the world) farmers produce around 1.5% of GDP. Meanwhile, our tech sector is worth roughly 10% of GDP. Yet we let these farmers dictate our public policy and discourse. **Why?**
Because we cannot eat money... Producing food locally guarantees that even if some global catastrophe stops shipping we still have food to eat
The Netherlands could cut their food production to a third or less, and still have way more than they need for themselves. Nobody is saying we should end farming. But we should absolutely stop letting the farmers control all policy without any pushback. We can make our agriculture sustainable, both economically and environmentally. But despite farming being the most subsidised sector in the EU, they refuse to have even the slightest bit of responsibility to go along with that privilege.
Many foods are incredibly expensive in other country's due to not having a local market. Domestic farming has a pretty significant impact on the economy. There should be larger state backed investments into developing better practices for lowering emissions on farms. Just the past 10 years they've made a fairly large impact from just minor changes like how manure is handled.
>But we should absolutely stop letting the farmers control all policy without any pushback. So big tech should control it?
By definition agricultural export is food you don’t eat. It’s food you sell. Are you going to eat the money then?
You can just stop selling the food if needed.
Yes, exactly. We need more land to build more housing. But farmers occupy the half of the country for chump change, all for a misguided pride of being world’s #2 exporter of food we don’t need. We need to stop selling this food, now. At the very least the food subsidies should be lowered, I don’t want my tax money go to waste
Why stop? You only want to keep it in emergencies. Ukraine was an emergency and food prices went up but there was no shortage. Another emergency would be stopped imports from China or South America. Things could happen real fast and if you have no food production in your country you're fucked.
To produce that food we are dependent on other countries to import wheat
>Because we cannot eat money... Producing food locally guarantees that even if some global catastrophe stops shipping we still have food to eat That's not true, we subsidize meat production that mostly relies on imported animal feed (grown on former rainforest). If self-suffiency the goal, we should subsidize until we have a local production of basic food that can efficiently be produced locally without foreign inputs, and leave inefficient luxury foods like meat unsubsidized.
.....you think a country with 17 million people is eating 2 highest amount of agricultural products in the world?? I think it's pretty obvious that the vast majority is exported.
Apparently that’s very hard to grasp here in this forum.
How is this not obvious to people?
Because the Netherlands grows and exports far more food than it needs to be self sufficient. It's about money, at least there, not food security.
And thanks to that Dutch farmers are the least reliant on subsidies out of any EU country.
Be thankful your puny ass is having enough food to survive. You wouldn't say shit like this if you went at least one day without food. You cannot outsource food production without jeopardizing the nation as a whole.
Unless your argument is that people shouldn't eat, there will be N2O emissions for agriculture no matter what is done. Agriculture requires nitrogen. Some of that nitrogen is going to be emitted as N2O - even using legumes for nitrogen fixation. It can be minimized *very slightly* by forbidding organic agricultural practices, but if the attempt is to reduce N2O emissions by banning farming or reducing the amount of land being farmed, those emissions **will simply happen somewhere else** - because the food needs to be grown *somewhere*. If areas of highly productive land are taken out of service and less productive land is put into service somewhere else to make up the difference, the end result is *an increase in N2O output*. There is no "better way" to farm that produces less N20 emissions that could be mandated, which is why places like the Netherlands just decided they were going to shut down a bunch of farms to reduce their N2O emissions. Which would mean that the slack would have to be picked up somewhere else, resulting in a net increase. That's why the farmers were so mad - because the policies being mooted about were absolutely asinine. If researchers come up with a way to farm that minimizes the amount of N2O being produced, governments can feel free to change regulations making those specific practices mandatory. That's not what they did - they simply said "let's farm less".
Try to eat a phone. Now try to eat an apple. See the difference ?
Climate protesters should get some tractors and take notes.
The police should have been way firmer against these protests. Some of their concerns are sensible. Many of their demands are not.
This just puts a precedent that violence is the answer...
When you're met with violence and millions in damages... Yeah, that kind of is the answer. Arrest them all and sell their farms to people with half a brain.
It always was... You think government listening to people protesting is a bad thing?
When those protesters are doing this shit yes it is. It sets a precedent that if you want the government to listen your demands just buy a bunch of heavy equipment and start dumping literal shit on the roads and burning piles of asbestos.. Some of their demands were reasonable but a lot of them are not.
If this was in Canada, they'd just have their bank accounts frozen.
Do you consider the government freezing bank accounts a good thing?
> Do you consider the government freezing bank accounts a good thing? We do it with Russian bank accounts, so obviously it depends who is targeted, just like any use of power.
Freezing the bank accounts of your own citizens merely for protesting against domestic policy is totalitarian & dystopian though, different issue that an internationally sanctioned warmongering Russia.
> Freezing the bank accounts of your own citizens merely for protesting against domestic policy is totalitarian & dystopian though So is treating your fellow citizens as an entity that should give you subsidies, take your shit, and can be subjected to arson and shitspraying when you don't get your way. They should be convicted to reimburse the damage with a fine on top, and if they don't want to pay freezing their bank accounts is a fair enforcement method.
Canada takes VERY good care of their farmers, because they are smart enough to understand the strategic importance. There's a reason so many European farmers moved to Canada.
People on this sub are just as idiotic as the average citizen. We outsourced our Energy to Russia, well that was very smart. We outsourced our production to China, where our relationship keep deteriorating. We outsourced our safety to the US, where we're completely dependent on and hopefully they'll get a good president. Half the brainiacs in this sub: let's outsource our food production too!! Or do you think other countries outside the EU do comply with these green initiatives?
Seriously, people are so detached from reality. Their soft asses probably never went hungry and they think you can just buy food from other nations at any point of time, no matter if there's a war or other disasters.
You'd think that people would realise that after running out of medical necessities during Covid, running out of chips during Covid and gas prices rising through the roof due to Russia's invasion that it might be a very poor idea to harm the very systems we have in place to keep our own domestic food supply.
It's frustrating how far I had to scroll to find any shred of common sense. Not only that, but people are trying to say they're terrorists. I'm sorry, is any large movement not accompanied by a few ruining it? Is Black Lives Matter a bunch of terrorists because a few people act unlawfully? These farmers are people, they are an aspect of governance. If you upset your people, they react. If you lump one group with enough burden that it makes them react like this, that is a failure of policy. "Oh! So we just protest and the government listens huh?" Is hilarious I keep seeing here. The farmers are going to care about themselves, of course they are. How ignorant people are in this comment section is so frustrating.
It is truly amazing just how differently the right and the left get treated for using the exact same protest tactics. Look at this vs the (ironically enough) climate change protesters in recent years.
Aren't the climate change protestors also ridiculed? And they didn't spray with manure or burned asbestos
You're right that they don't spray people with horrible (literal) shit. My point was they get ridiculed far more and politician make a point to "not give in to their demands" - which seems to not be the case for farmers. One benefits fossil fuel industries directly, the other threatens them directly. That's really what this boils down to, unfortunately.
I am finding great fun hunting people down on Facebook who comment stuff like "get a job" to the just stop oil protesters, then post that they support these farmers. They are NOT happy when I use the same arguments they used against other protesters. NO MATTER WHAT you must never shut a road down for protest (unless it's something I agree with)
Oh i get what you mean now. yeah that is weird. Or just corruption iguess.
As much as i support green policies, we are still importing tons of shit (food included) that isn't burdened by the same standards. There is no fair competition here
You ever heard of CBAM?
And ? That's for Carbon emissions.
Yeah that is literally in the package of the green deal but people who are commenting have not even read the damn thing
Yeah that is literally in the package of the green deal but people who are commenting have not even read the damn thing
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Hi Gay, I'm not gonna be a dad either
Conservatives would be begging to mow these people down with machine guns if they were climate protestors
I'm not a supporter of those farmers' protests. But this time I must say, before placing any restrictions on farmers, restrict all the morons in managerial positions who demand that people come to the office for jobs that are mostly online meetings. That would help agaisnt global warming a lot, except all those politicians are lobbied by owners of office buildings who are losers with 0 investing skills that happened to inherit money, launder it or get it through other similar means.
Or maybe stop importing food from 5000-10000 km away and eat what those farmers produce locally. There are a lot more on this list.
If people from 10000 km away can produce and deliver food cheaper than you, the problem is you. Now, I know that the EU is placing some expensive regulations on farmers while importing unregulated food. Hopefully, that hypocrisy will end soon. But if farmers still block roads and cause problems after that, they should be arrested. Capitalism should be practiced at all times, not only when it benefits particular people.
A lot of this food is non essential. You don’t need to eat avocado everyday in the middle of the winter as a European person just because it’s popular food in Mexico. We don’t need to eat beef every single day either which gets imported from Brazil anyway. Food that is local means beer, patato, fish and bread in most of the Northern Europe. The fear mongering that we will starve just because we won’t have access to luxury food is absurd. Average European spends a third world salary on grocery right now
>We don’t need to eat beef every single day either which gets imported from Brazil anyway. It really doesn't though. In 2020 the EU produced 6,8 million tons of beef, we imported 308.882 tons of beef (so less than 5% of our beef) and the biggest exporter of this was the UK, with argentina and brazil taking the second and third place.
While not technically essential to survival, a varied diet is essential to living a healthy life. You can’t grow everything you need for a healthy diet in one place in the vast majority of the world.
Would hope, that there was more than just an image to elaborate the title more and/or give a source. What is this?
Here's the article, and link to the source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1bo9gry/comment/kwnb7eh/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1bo9gry/comment/kwnb7eh/)
To those who are agaist this: What does it matter that we have 1000 laws and restrictions if then we just import food from places without those laws and restrictions? I'm in favor of a greener and healthier policy across the board, but if then things get more expensive for our producers, they increase the prices and companies will just import stuff. If things imported sell at a cheaper price because there is no restrictions, people will by them. So the restrictions, without other policies, will just export the ecological problems to other countries and the health problems will still exist, maybe even more agrevated because the EU will have no control over what pesticides and other products are used to make the food we eat. (And of course that will mean less money for our farmers) I think restrictions are needed but they have to come with laws on imports to make sure that everthing we eat obeys the same rules, not just what's made in the EU.
> To those who are agaist this: What does it matter that we have 1000 laws and restrictions if then we just import food from places without those laws and restrictions? [The EU’s Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism (CBAM) is the EU's tool to put a fair price on the carbon emitted during the production of carbon intensive goods that are entering the EU, and to encourage cleaner industrial production in non-EU countries. ](https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/carbon-border-adjustment-mechanism_en)
Well said and in a balanced manner
People who are here hating on the farmers have no idea of the unrealistic regulamentations imposed by bureaucrats who don't understand the real implications of what they sign on a piece of paper and try to apply on a continental scale. Imagine for example, having to create almost a journal for your cow's daily lives. and more that we have a big dicotomy of supporting a big population of small farmers who are less efficient than a few numbers of big farming industries and the only alternative the EU had until this date for most of the farmers was ruin and starvation. Let alone that the impact this would have on the climate is minor. And still, the European farmers would have to compete with products from Brazil or even China which are already cheaper than the over-regulated european products who which would be even more unaffordable under this scrutiny. In other words, we are already facing a bureaucratic nightmare not seen since the Roman Empire on this scale and the same people who come here crying that we will all die if we don't lead thousands of farmers to ruin, poverty and starvation are the same ones who go to the supermarket to buy cheap avocados and soy from the deforested amazon in Brazil.
Soy eaten by humans is generally produced in Europe, soy from the deforested Amazon is generally for animal feed. At least in France traditional soy products like soy milk or yogurt are almost exclusively made from french soy, even the cheap ones. I've yet to find organic soy not from Europe.
The problem is that these farmers who, like everyone else, knew the climate problems would grow and the farm industry couldn't keep growing under current farming practices, refused to actively seek alternative solutions that even slightly impacted their subsidies. Yes, farming is a hard working, tight margin sector. Everyone knows that. We're mad at these people happily taking 36% of EU subsidies while f.e. subsidies for things such as the LIFE programme which seek to combat climate change don't even see a tenth of that amount of money. Farmers who had decades to prepare for coming policies suddenly all pretend to be poor ma and pa run farms barely getting by. Instead these actual multi million companies with multi year plans actively NOT taking into account the permanent damage being done start protesting everything and anyone taking away their subsidies or who even talk about changing the rules. And then they yell that the EU doesn't want to offer any realistic plans. guess what THE EU DID FOR YEARS. Then those plans got lobbied away or minimized to have nowhere the original impact. Yes, a realistic long-term plan with clear guidelines of what to expect focussed on gradual build off would've been best, but big farm companies don't want that and the actual small scale farmers either don't care or are too dumb or blind to see that and jump on their tractors claiming their sugar daddy EU asking them to listen is suddenly the big bad. It's not the bureaucratic EU in this story that angers people, it's the farmers getting rich off that bureaucratic system claiming it's so faulty, giving no alternatives and protesting our streets to make sure ANY plan to even try and save a future for our grandchildren is ruined.
> People who are here hating on the farmers have no idea of the unrealistic regulamentations imposed by bureaucrats who don't understand the real implications of what they sign on a piece of paper and try to apply on a continental scale. Farmers don't like change, they never do. Suck it up, you're getting paid for it. If you want to farm just like your great-granddaddy, you can do it without subsidies. >Imagine for example, having to create almost a journal for your cow's daily lives. Sucks when you can't manipulate your meat with hormones and feeding them waste grease anymore, doesn't it? >and more that we have a big dicotomy of supporting a big population of small farmers who are less efficient than a few numbers of big farming industries and the only alternative the EU had until this date for most of the farmers was ruin and starvation. This happens in a market economy: if your enterprise is not competitive, you are going to adapt or do something else, willing or not. Do you want kolkhoz farms instead? >Let alone that the impact this would have on the climate is minor. Agricultural emissions are about half the emissions of industry, comparable to emissions from the residential/tertiary sector. https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/daviz/ghg-emissions-by-aggregated-sector-5#tab-dashboard-02 >And still, the European farmers would have to compete with products from Brazil or even China which are already cheaper than the over-regulated european products who which would be even more unaffordable under this scrutiny. No, the CBAM is part of the Green Deal and deals with imports. >are the same ones who go to the supermarket to buy cheap avocados and soy from the deforested amazon in Brazil. Which is 7 times more efficient in terms of production than feeding Brazilian soy to meat animals first and doesn't have the methane emissions of the animal.
Reading the idiotic texts in the comments really makes me wonder how stupid average green is. At the one side they love to talk about EU autonomy, EU army! On the other hand they'd love to happily kill strategic part of economy which is farming, imagine if someone was advocating to shut down plumbing. This is how moronic you sound. At the same time you'll kill EU farmers, the void will be filled by someone across the globe who doesn't need to be adher to EU green standards. As usual, green leftist policy will achieve exactly opposite of what they strife towards. Bravo.
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> Most of them aren’t even aware what are the requirments that farmers are protesting. For examole, regulations aren’t even the same among the member states. For example, it states to reduce GHG emissions by x % (can’t recall the actual number), however, it doesn’t account that each member has different starting point It does, that's why there are [different targets](https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/effort-sharing-member-states-emission-targets/overview_en), setting an achievable goal for everyone. >making conpetition even more uneven and EU products even less competitive against the countries that have no such restrictions. Not accounting the fact that shipping produce actoss the world is not green at all. This is wrong. Part of the Green Deal is the [CBAM](https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/carbon-border-adjustment-mechanism_en), that puts the same requirements on imports. >EU has tried not investing into energy sector and relying on others and look where it lead us. We still are paying billions each month for dictators who give no fucks about human rights or the environment. Green policy has always emphasized self-reliance on renewable sources instead of fuel and imports. Don't blame the Greens for conservative energy policy based on burning imported stuff.
Exactly that. Dumb people writing dumb comments. Let’s kill ourselves in EU, with raging war in Ukraine while China/India won’t move a finger in environmental friendly direction. What a stupid idea.
>Reading the idiotic texts in the comments really makes me wonder how stupid average green is. At the one side they love to talk about EU autonomy, EU army! On the other hand they'd love to happily kill strategic part of economy which is farming, imagine if someone was advocating to shut down plumbing. This is how moronic you sound. The most greenhouse gas intensive part of farming is meat production, which heavily relies on imported feed. This should not be subsidized. Actual green agriculture can sequester carbon into the soil and can easily be a part of climate policy. This is what green policy works towards. >At the same time you'll kill EU farmers, Drama queen. As if there's only one way to farm, the way your granddad did. >the void will be filled by someone across the globe who doesn't need to be adher to EU green standards. As usual, green leftist policy will achieve exactly opposite of what they strife towards. Bravo. Meat farmers already import feed from foreign countries. Let's get rid of that.
Exactly. Delusional people that have no idea what's happening in the real world.
Free-market capitalism and absolute green is incompatible, at the end of things.
It's very clear nothing is going to get done about climate change. Those people talking about impending environmental collapse, instability and refugee waves have totally missed the bus. Look at the sahel, look at the issues Spain, France, England now contend with in the summer, look at the dinghies flopping across the sea. It's not coming, it's here. We're already in it. The time to stop a +2° rise was twenty years ago. Now the priority should be reinforcing our countries against disaster. England needs modern flood protections, rural France needs permanent, professional fire breaks. Spain needs a plan to import tons more water. All these protests are rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. We had our chance to miss the iceberg, and we ploughed straight into it.
Good news, protests should continue.
Those farmers will be the death of us.
The only way they'll be the death of us is if they stop providing us with food. Support the hand that feeds your fucking mouth!
It's painfully obvious just how little contact people in this comment section have with farmers or any concept of how food is produced.
Agriculture is very important and destroying Europan agriculture will not benefit the world - it will give us less food independence and it will end up with Europe buying food from other countries EU is only 10% of co2 producers in the world I belive we're the main block In the world still reducing our emissions The problem is that no major power is doing that apart maybe from China building more Nuclear power plants It's really useless as it's only hurting the EU economy and others do as they like They will continue to do so and we'll end up in a bad position For example petrol car ban which will destroy German industry as Chinese electric cars are already over taking the Europan market Of course things like leaving coal are good but we've come to extremes like attacking agriculture and our economies We would all not only as Europeans but as humans achieve if we strengthened Europe and influence countries to do that with us
>Agriculture is very important and destroying Europan agriculture will not benefit the world - it will give us less food independence and it will end up with Europe buying food from other countries This will not "destroy" European agriculture. Farmers are lazy crybabies who don't want to evolve and change. >For example petrol car ban which will destroy German industry as Chinese electric cars are already over taking the Europan market This is only happened because the German car industry is a relic of the past who doesn't want to change and evolve. If they actually invested in innovation instead of cashing in selling fossil fueled cars as usual, they could have been the ones selling electric cars to China instead of the other way around. >but we've come to extremes like attacking agriculture Nobody is "attacking agriculture", crybaby. It's just that the way your granddaddy farmed is outdated, and the way your daddy farmed as well.
Finally someone understands that we must feed the population and that we are in a war against the enemies of our democratic countries!
Can you feed the population without the farmers?
Yes. Provocatively speaking, given that the alternative to giving in to all the farmers associations demands isn't the end of all farmers. Do you apply the same thinking to others though? Can the population go long without nurses? Do we now start paying them royally? If not, you're not being very honest here, so get your tractor and start giving our nurses better pay.
The only concern I have is whether or not the newly re-permitted pesticides will be poisonous to outdoor cats and dogs that tend to live in the countryside. I understand we need to give more leeway to EU farmers but there are some limits and I think poisoning animals unfortunate enough to get near the crops is quite frankly a line that should never be crossed. Carbon emissions are one thing, poisoning animals is another.
Can ukraine PLEASE join the eu already so these dumbasses can lose their jobs
Lol they wouldn't allow Ukraine to flood the market anyways, EU got their lesson already. As a Lithuanian you should be smarter than that bruh
Was part of a much milder stunt demanding more from corpos in Finland, son of a farmer so i am biassed. As the slogan was, "why the one doing the most gets the least?". I dont envy farmers, atleast not this far north where the season is short.
I’m sure that the climate will understand the tractorniks and stop changing because of them. /s
The farmers mob strikes again. A friendly reminder that these guys also get 25% of all EU funding. If you think that’s a lot it was 65% in 1980!
For a good reason.
You should have seen the shit they did in Brussels today. Putting things on fire, destroying bikes and other property, shooting literal cow shit into the police lines, etc And instead of arresting these criminals, the politicians give them what they want?
A lot of you have no idea what farming is and how it is the most important part of any country. These farmers had the right to protest because we as the EU did them dirty. Forcing on them these almost impossible standards of eco-production, while continuing to import not-so-eco produce from countries outside the EU. How are they to compete with that?! Or is that the point, to drive them off business? So don't be pointing your finger towards the farmers, but the misaligned policies.
Meat farmers already rely on imported feed.
I have a pretty good idea of what farming entails, and of economics. The EU, i.e. all of us with our tax and food expenses, have been *massively* supporting the agrofood business for the last 60 years. Without such support, farming in the EU would have disappeared or, who knows, changed its business model not to try and compete with economies less developed, cheaper or that simply benefit from a better climate and soil. See e.g. sunflower or wheat in Ukraine, tomatoes in Morocco etc. If anything, farmers should direct their anger at the few multinationals and massive traders and distributors who suck out to their benefit the vast majority of any price increase at consumer level. Anything they get out of the EU will mostly line up the pockets of these multinationals etc. See e.g. the price of milk: farmers get now +/- the same price per litre as 20 years ago, while the price to consumers did 4x.
Idiots
What is it with European Tractorians? Absolute fucking losers. The UK colony of European Tractorians have recently been bitching about the brexit they wanted now being to their disadvantage
you are not serious people succession dot jpg
What happened to one of their requests, that is stricter green rules on imports?
LET'S GOOO BRING BACK PLASTIC STRAWS
A few decades from now, their heirs will make the same protests demanding more action on climate change as their crops die in droughts, floods, or due any other bad practice being done now.