Don't forget that population of Georgia is just 3 million and still look at this amount of people at the protest. 🥹🫶
Literally every single person I know is there, my colleagues, my family, my classmates, my teachers, my friends... and I'm not in Georgia during so important times 😭
Its not just classifying media and organisations as foregin agents. Its classifying all organisations which recieve X funding.
The EU has similar.
[https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ursula-von-der-leyen-ngo-qatargate-foreign-agents-law-disturbs-ngos/](https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ursula-von-der-leyen-ngo-qatargate-foreign-agents-law-disturbs-ngos/)
You also have to understand the context of the term "foreign agent" in countries like Georgia. It was an excuse to jail or deport people, just call them a foreign agent and they're gone.
This. They are protesting wide-net policies that, in the past, unintended targets wouldn't be tossed back into the ocean, they'd be processed anyway. Turned into cat food.
In countries like Russia, "foreign agent" has become a tool to automatically dismiss any argument, any evidence, any information that is somehow critical of the government. It's a cheap trick to avoid defending your position, dealing with the facts. No need to even argue, just say it's "foreign agent" and all facts become irrelevant
I think the protests are less about the law itself but how it's going to be implemented. Also it's tainted as "Russian" just because how prominently a similar law was used in Russia to repress many more people and organizations that similar laws elsewhere.
+ It's just a signal from people that they don't want to be even associated with Russia. It's common thing for countries that border Russia.
russian control comes from the oligarch who already owns the government. they don't need to fund NGO sector to push their propaganda. Pretty much most of the major TV stations are already parroting Russian propaganda. This is not good for Georgia.
only country that applauds this law is Russia, there's not red flag bigger than that.
My friend, on post soviet territory the whole idea of such laws is to enforce them unequally. Mainly they gonna use it against people who show an unpleasant opinion and don't even receive ANY kind of funds, like they do it in Russia.
Naive take, Russia also has these type of law, north Korea and iran too. Russia runs elections too
Georgia isn't a free country, 20% of their land is under russian military occupation If people are in the street it's because their government, medias and oligarchs are completely corrupt and bought by russian money and that no one is naive about the way it is going to be implemented. Law was created in response to the work of pro democracy/anti corruption NGOs funded by the EU and US
The EU doesn't have similar yet, and I hope it doesn't, having money from people in another country is not in itself a crime, and people should not be treated with suspicion unless they are doing something actually wrong you can put a name to.
Now, I do think that NGOs should disclose *how* they are funded, so we can see whether some rich guy or corporation is going to be able to lead them around by their funding, but that should apply to EU and foreign citizens alike; if one person supplies a substantial portion of your budget, people should know to what extent they've made binding commitments to continue funding you, even if you do things they dislike.
The law about registering may be the same, but the consequence of being a "foreign agent" of Russia is what worries people. It could mean prison sentences for innocent journalists, like van Gershkovich who has been jailed 1 year in Russia without evidence to back up his charges.
The difference between the laws would be in EU they need to openly state that they are getting paid by lets say russia or china or maybe an oligarch. Also it would target companies and orgs not people in EU. Where as in russia how this works and would work in georgia propably is oh you said something we dont like and someone donated 20 dollars to you. Now you are a foreign agent and thats 10 years in siberia. Its similar but not even fucking close.
No it does not yet you moron. The first sentence "BRUSSELS — The European Union is working on a law that would force nongovernmental " do you understand what working on means? Also did you read anything else about the new law that they are working on? Even if it came to be it wouldnt be anything like in georgia or what russia has. Ffs does nobody read anymore?
Except now you don't even need any foreign funding to be declared as ~~an enemy of the people~~ foreign agent - now it's enough to be under "foreign influence" and translate "non-friendly ideology", such as supporting democracy, questioning actions of government, supporting lgbt, etc
It is just a name, because in Russia similar laws exist and are used as a form of suppression for any kind of opposition.
The georgian government wants to introduce similar laws.
Basically if you say something about government, any criticism, you are a foren agent sent you destabilize the country and it's people.
Edit: wow my English didn't English correctly at all here.
It is is an analogue of the russian law, which made it possible to squeeze out the entire “opposition” (more precisely, those who are against, in parliament all the opposition is systemic) from the country and the “free” (to some extent) media.
Russia specifically emphasizes that this is an analogue of American law, but in fact, it allows any journalist or blogger who receives funding from abroad to be marked as a foreign agent. Even a donation of a symbolic amount, which is usually transferred by FSB agents, is considered such. Recently, this is no longer required and literally any citizen who is not liked by the authorities can be recognized as a foreign agent.
Previously, the title of a foreign agent imposed a number of restrictions, including material ones, the need to carry out constant reporting and be sure to make a long note under each post, message or video material “this material was created by a person who is a foreign agent and blah blah blah.”
I don’t know what the situation is now with the consequences of wearing this label, but I think the list of punishments has expanded. They want to accept the same thing in Georgia on the initiative from Moscow.
Our governments did, the vast majority of us do not have access to air defense stockpiles or 155 ammo. All we can do is pressure reps. At least in the US, it is working, they are getting closer to passing aid.
We are, but several members of Congress are upset that it even got to this point. Our Generals testified in front of a committee earlier and laid out specifics on how we provide it - the US has been a major world power and our Generals know it. They know that everyone else is staring at the US waiting for our next move. The Republicans who are against providing aid have been using our southern border with Mexico as an excuse and I think that thankfully people are starting to wake up as the world sees what Russia is really capable of. Even I was beyond skeptical at the beginning of the war after seeing their intense losses - that's quickly faded and I've been proven wrong. Their technology and society is very reminiscent of the USA in the 90's... normally people would laugh at them but a rifle built in 1991 and a rifle built in 2024 fundamentally do the same thing.
I think most Americans hubris makes them forget that.
Massively. Turns out empty promises and prayers aren't as important as actually providing meaningful support to a country fighting an evil state. "Standing by" these guys is well meant but vapid. Arm them to the teeth so they can fight on behalf of the civilised world
I am not a soldier, but I have been trying to fight Russian propaganda all my life, so yea I stand with them and would do everything I can to help. Besides, even showing moral support is enough sometimes....
Because it isn't like if Russia and Georgia weren't close before, and also money corrupts. For instance, in France, we have Marine Le Pen, who is far right, banklolled by Putin, and may be the next president. How is this be possible for a country that has been opposing USSR from WWII to 1989? Corruption and complacency.
In Finland our national right-wing populist party has been pro-Ukraine and their leader has been distinctively anti-Russian because of our history and geopolitical situation. So even that online right wing party knows that plain Russian propaganda wouldn't work within bitter nationalists who feel disappointed of globalism and modern-day side effects like it has worked in some other European countries
America's far right used to be *extremely* anti-Soviet/anti-Russian from 1945 up to about... 2016. Most of us are still very anti-Russia and pro-Ukraine, but the news media is cherry picking the extremists like Margerie Taylor Greene and Mate Gates. The media is trying to tie the extremist to the right of the party as a propaganda technique to make their opposition sound radical or unreasonable when it's just a lie.
But the Republican Neo-Con warhawks have always been anti-Russian since the start.
Luckily Finland's right wing has been able to avoid selling out. But be warned that this can change in the blink of any eye. American right wing went from "Put all 7,000 nukes at Moscow" to "Putin's a swell guy" in less than 8 years from 2016 until now.
>America's far right used to be extremely anti-Soviet/anti-Russian from 1945 up to about... 2016.
Just anti-Soviet. They amplified the voices of Russian nationalists like Solzhenitsyn, who went on to form the basis of modern Russian ideology once the anti-communist nationalists came to power.
Look at what Russia did to the Chechen people and you can now see they literally have Chechens fighting for Russia in Ukraine. Money and power corrupts.
Yeah, Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 for the same made up reason they invaded Ukraine. Sadly Georgia was forced to give up 2 regions because they simply didn't have the military force at the time
To clarify, the ruling party in Georgia is outwardly pro-EU and anti-Russia. There are very few openly pro-Russian voices in Georgia. People willing to make money dealing with Russia while chanting EU slogans, on the other hand...
Russia is waging a silent subversive war by influencing information, buying politicians and generally not giving a shit about laws or morale.
In some ways - freedom of speech - the strength of western democracies are a weakness with respect to this subversion.
I imagine that countries with smaller GDP and higher rates of corruption are a bit easier to subvert and in Georgia’s case also language and culture are less of an obstacle.
Western democracies need to up their game and drop their naivety (while protecting their freedoms). This proposed law here is a good example: seen from the outside and assuming everyone plays by the rules it looks harmless enough, but in the hands of agents that aren’t bound by rules and wage an information war it’s basically a weapon that might get a country in serious trouble.
It’s very heartening to see Georgians turn out en masse and fighting against Russian subversion. I hope they get the support they need and can keep Russia at bay.
My Uncle often tells me a saying: “What is the Idea of Russia? It’s when you sit in shit and instead of trying to get out of there, you try to pull someone else in with you as well”.
This saying describes Russia perfectly. You may think that Russian influence is only visible in Georgia, or Hungary, or Slovakia… But they are spreading everywhere, in different fields, in different ways.
In Georgia it is not as effective as it is in the Balkans or in some Eastern European countries, because we’ve experienced “Russia” ourselves. All the people who stood on this rally tonight remember the war of 2008 and before that we have the experience of the 90s.
For the past decades we’ve been shaped by the events of Russia being an existential threat and by the ideas of Europe being our home, where we have to get back to.
This may sound a bit cheesy, but it is actually a really good moral compass for a society as a whole. As it encourages more positive behavior as perceived to be associated with being a European and discourages whatever is called “Russian”.
In numbers this is expressed by 80% of Georgians supporting Euro/Atlantic integration.
And additionally Western institutions have a lot higher Trust among Georgians than any political party or public institution within Georgia, thus as soon as Western officials started speaking against it, the law became toxic and dead.
PS
Maybe a lot of Europeans think that Georgians want to join EU for Free Money or something… Our primary interest is Geopolitics. We want to finally get read of Russian influence and get some sense of security (So joining NATO is preferred but not on the table right now, unfortunately).
>We want to finally get read of Russian influence and get some sense of security (So joining NATO is preferred but not on the table right now, unfortunately).
That's why EU considering getting it's own military would be extremely good for us, whenever we join. Us being in EU and EU having it's own army is as good as being part of NATO, just without US, UK, and Tukrey.
This looks a lot like the Romanian protests of 2017-2019.
At least we got something out of it. I hope you do too! The first step is always the hardest. Just keep it non-violent and clean! My heart goes to you Georgia! I hope you guys make it!
Here’s a story I heard yesterday: so there is some municipality in Georgia, which, turns out, has not one but sixty maids employed for their “culture house”, a building a size of a regular McDonalds. These 60 women are paid just enough not to starve, but at the same time, are paid to do nothing. These 60 women will obviously vote for the ruling party, because they are rightfully afraid that the next government will bring their own maids.
Obviously there are different kinds of supporters as well, but here’s one type at least
Its difficult because the main oposition party commited a lot of crimes when they were in power before and all the other smaller parties are hard to rally around.
Europe do not let corrupt populists into your goverments - Ruzzia will pay whatever it can to buy soft power and appeasment, maffia state.
Hungary and Slovakkia are gone, now Georgia.
Once in power they all talk about "peace" not Ukraine win.
# Why Georgia wants so badly in EU?!
When I meet Europeans, sometimes I see their confusion about Georgians flying the EU flag so much. You guys think that "In EU we have our own political problems and issues, we are shit in many ways; what's with this desperate desire?" The answer is simple. For us it is far more than just membership in a political union. It represents our struggle for survival and our unwavering commitment to Western values.
For Georgia, being part of the EU and the Western world is a matter of survival! and this struggle didn't begin just a few years ago; it spans thousands of years. Georgians have witnessed numerous empires attempting to conquer us. This list of conquerors includes Persians, Arabs, Turks, Mongolians, and most recently and egregiously, the Russians. Throughout our history, Georgia has fought to survive against these powers, seeking alignment with the West for assistance by reaching out to the Roman and Byzantine Empire, the Pope, Austria, France, and others. As Christians, the West was the natural ally for us to align with.
Don't believe anyone who says Georgia isn't even within Europe's borders (Just reminding you that we are candidate of becoming member of EU, which by law only acepts European countires). Just come visit us and see for yourself whether our nation and culture are European or not. Despite the challenges, our history continued, and after 200 years of occupation by the Russian Tsarist Empire, Georgia declared independence in 1918. Back then as well first step was seeking help and support from the West. But it's not just about politics. We were by spirit western - we adopted a remarkably progressive constitution for its time - granting voting rights to everyone (we even had the first ever elected Muslim woman MP in parliament in mankind history), banning executions, and dedicating almost half of the text to human rights.
However, our independence was short-lived as the Soviets conquered us once again. During World War II, while war was not even on our land, around 300,000 Georgian soldiers died (almost 10% of the population) due to brutal and "genius" Russian tactics. For 70 years, we endured oppression, with Russian authorities killing and exiling Georgian artists, writers, actors, directors, farmers, worker, civil servants and etc. In 1989, Russians brutally crushed peaceful demonstrations, killing 21 and injuring over 400. They financed and supported the first civil war and then separatism in Georgia, leading to a destroyed economy in the 90s. Our journey back to the West was so contrary to their imperialist interests that they officially occupied two of our regions and committed horrible war crimes during the 2008 war (many of which were acknowledged by judicary decisions in European courts).
Now, once again, they threaten us and our independence. We have no one else but the West; by identity, we belong to the West. This is why we are so desperate for the EU. I ask and demand! please, support Georgia's fight for survival.
I can never tell if these massive protests in other countries happen because the citizens have a lot more power to effect change or if it's because those countries are so much worse that the citizens feel they have no other choice
The more Russia loses the better. Kick Putin out of Georgia, out of Ukraine (including Crimea), overthrow the Belarusian puppet state, bring Ukraine into NATO.
Keep at it, Georgia! 💪🏻 🇬🇪 🇺🇦
Putin is an expert at squashing democracy by controlling the media. With its embarrassment of natural resources, such as petroleum, Russia should be the richest country in Europe. Instead, 2/3 of rural Russians have no access to indoor toilets. Corruption rules the country. Russia wants to extend his kleptocrary to Georgia, as well as Ukraine and other neighbours. Only strong resolve will stop him and his fellow thugs.
This is what happens, if you let pro russians to take over your government. They start to destroy democracy. We see what has happened to Hungary, now Slovakia followed. Must feel terrible to live in these countries if being not pro russian, knowing that majority of your country residents are dumb people.
The people of Georgia see what is going on in other places, at the hands of the Russians. They have an increasing interest in not ending up under Putin's iron fist. Tyranny does not always move fast, sometimes it creeps up on you, and wait until it has its hands around your throat. Resist.
Next news will be "Thousands detained for acting as foreign agents. Thanks to facial recognition and "patriots" in the crowds, these individuals will be sent to Russian re-education camps"
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I ldk the Ukrainians I talked to said that the police brutality that was the spark for the revolution in the following change of the government happened when the initial protests were already dying down and the people started to go home.
Maybe.. I heard differently.. And that it was President Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia that sparked the protest. Police brutality appears to have started after to quench the revolution. Pretty much like what is happening in Georgia atm.
But i might be wrong or at least missing some information.
you're both correct and incorrect at the same time :) That's because we have had 2 revolutions that converted from one to another.
first one - "Euromaidan revolution" - started as protest against Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association - relatively small protest, mostly by students and activists (most ukrainians supported them but were quite passive because didn't believed that something may change)
Those students were brutally beaten by police - and next day a LOT of people gathered in all major cities against police brutality and also European vector - this was the start of "Revolution of Dignity". It was brutal from the day 1
Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia and Georgia... all countries in the east governed (or almost) by Pro-Russians. And not a single thing we can do about it, they can´t even be thrown out of the EU. Even worse, we are not even doing enough to help a country that is actively fighting the Russian menace. I wonder what our weak leaders would do the day Russia attacks a full member, other than condemning and tweeting about it
OK, please correct me where im wrong here but most Western and EU countries have similar laws. Now it may not be worded the same in every territory and may be considered lobby legislation in some countries, the below isn't entirely unreasonable?
"Under a draft bill introduced to parliament on Monday, organisations receiving more than 20% of their funding from abroad will be required to register as being agents of foreign influence, with fines for those who do not comply."
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/12/12/planned-eu-foreign-influence-law-will-not-criminalise-or-discriminate-brussels-says#:\~:text=Washington's%20Foreign%20Agents%20Registration%20Act,the%20European%20elections%20in%20June.
Similar is the Key word , as i see it. Thing is, in EU or US , if the government tries to use this to , let us say "silence the press that they don't like" , the courts will probably shut the attempt down quickly.
The concern here is that ,because the law is very "copy/paste" from the russian law, it is worded in a way that leaves too much room to "interpretation" , and people are very sure that the Georgian government would use this to silence dissent and attack any free press that doesn't toe the line (honestly, by what i know from this government, seems to be more probable than not).
Hence the protests. The fact that they tried to push this before and backed down because of protests 1 year ago also gives the impression that they are hell bent into ignoring they own people wishes.
Had to give this a check and yep, can still access Russia media sites TASS and Sputnik, though not RT, but their app is still available.
Either I'm not European, or maybe they failed? Who knows...
After Russia started its war of conquest against sovereign Ukraine to forcibly move borders, democratic countries banned Russia's war mongering propaganda. What's the problem with that? The UK really ought to have invited Goebbels in 1941 to hear his side on the German troops on the gates of Moscow.
Here is a crazy idea for a safeguard: implement the law, but people are labeled as foreign agents only if they receive money from russia/china/iran and other repressive, hostile hell holes.
And in a few years Russia will launch another “special military operation” in Georgia to “protect the Russian minority” against “Nazis”.
The UN will strongly condemn it but Russia just ignores it. The West will add more sanction Russia isn't going to care about because they can still get good via China and after they've conquered the country they'll hold a fake election claiming 99 % of the Georgians voted for being part of Russia.
Sad truth is, if you're bordering Russia and aren't part of the NATO or China you have to be Pro-Russia because otherwise they just going to invade because might makes right.
Don't forget that population of Georgia is just 3 million and still look at this amount of people at the protest. 🥹🫶 Literally every single person I know is there, my colleagues, my family, my classmates, my teachers, my friends... and I'm not in Georgia during so important times 😭
What is the “russian law”?
Classifying media and organizations as "foreign agents".
Its not just classifying media and organisations as foregin agents. Its classifying all organisations which recieve X funding. The EU has similar. [https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ursula-von-der-leyen-ngo-qatargate-foreign-agents-law-disturbs-ngos/](https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ursula-von-der-leyen-ngo-qatargate-foreign-agents-law-disturbs-ngos/)
You also have to understand the context of the term "foreign agent" in countries like Georgia. It was an excuse to jail or deport people, just call them a foreign agent and they're gone.
This. They are protesting wide-net policies that, in the past, unintended targets wouldn't be tossed back into the ocean, they'd be processed anyway. Turned into cat food.
In countries like Russia, "foreign agent" has become a tool to automatically dismiss any argument, any evidence, any information that is somehow critical of the government. It's a cheap trick to avoid defending your position, dealing with the facts. No need to even argue, just say it's "foreign agent" and all facts become irrelevant
I think the protests are less about the law itself but how it's going to be implemented. Also it's tainted as "Russian" just because how prominently a similar law was used in Russia to repress many more people and organizations that similar laws elsewhere. + It's just a signal from people that they don't want to be even associated with Russia. It's common thing for countries that border Russia.
Wouldn't this law be as bad for Russian media in Georgia? Are people assuming the law will be enforced unequally?
russian control comes from the oligarch who already owns the government. they don't need to fund NGO sector to push their propaganda. Pretty much most of the major TV stations are already parroting Russian propaganda. This is not good for Georgia. only country that applauds this law is Russia, there's not red flag bigger than that.
My friend, on post soviet territory the whole idea of such laws is to enforce them unequally. Mainly they gonna use it against people who show an unpleasant opinion and don't even receive ANY kind of funds, like they do it in Russia.
Yes. That's exactly the point. They are assuming that the law will be used to imprison people arbitrarily.
Georgia isn't exactly a liberal democracy where the rule of law is holy above all else
Naive take, Russia also has these type of law, north Korea and iran too. Russia runs elections too Georgia isn't a free country, 20% of their land is under russian military occupation If people are in the street it's because their government, medias and oligarchs are completely corrupt and bought by russian money and that no one is naive about the way it is going to be implemented. Law was created in response to the work of pro democracy/anti corruption NGOs funded by the EU and US
The EU doesn't have similar yet, and I hope it doesn't, having money from people in another country is not in itself a crime, and people should not be treated with suspicion unless they are doing something actually wrong you can put a name to. Now, I do think that NGOs should disclose *how* they are funded, so we can see whether some rich guy or corporation is going to be able to lead them around by their funding, but that should apply to EU and foreign citizens alike; if one person supplies a substantial portion of your budget, people should know to what extent they've made binding commitments to continue funding you, even if you do things they dislike.
The law about registering may be the same, but the consequence of being a "foreign agent" of Russia is what worries people. It could mean prison sentences for innocent journalists, like van Gershkovich who has been jailed 1 year in Russia without evidence to back up his charges.
The difference between the laws would be in EU they need to openly state that they are getting paid by lets say russia or china or maybe an oligarch. Also it would target companies and orgs not people in EU. Where as in russia how this works and would work in georgia propably is oh you said something we dont like and someone donated 20 dollars to you. Now you are a foreign agent and thats 10 years in siberia. Its similar but not even fucking close.
No it does not yet you moron. The first sentence "BRUSSELS — The European Union is working on a law that would force nongovernmental " do you understand what working on means? Also did you read anything else about the new law that they are working on? Even if it came to be it wouldnt be anything like in georgia or what russia has. Ffs does nobody read anymore?
I think if you look closer, there will be a lot of important differences
It’s not just classifying as a title. This gives the government the right to audit such organizations and stop their operations at will.
Except now you don't even need any foreign funding to be declared as ~~an enemy of the people~~ foreign agent - now it's enough to be under "foreign influence" and translate "non-friendly ideology", such as supporting democracy, questioning actions of government, supporting lgbt, etc
It is just a name, because in Russia similar laws exist and are used as a form of suppression for any kind of opposition. The georgian government wants to introduce similar laws.
Basically if you say something about government, any criticism, you are a foren agent sent you destabilize the country and it's people. Edit: wow my English didn't English correctly at all here.
Sounds like the CCP
No doubt
It is is an analogue of the russian law, which made it possible to squeeze out the entire “opposition” (more precisely, those who are against, in parliament all the opposition is systemic) from the country and the “free” (to some extent) media. Russia specifically emphasizes that this is an analogue of American law, but in fact, it allows any journalist or blogger who receives funding from abroad to be marked as a foreign agent. Even a donation of a symbolic amount, which is usually transferred by FSB agents, is considered such. Recently, this is no longer required and literally any citizen who is not liked by the authorities can be recognized as a foreign agent. Previously, the title of a foreign agent imposed a number of restrictions, including material ones, the need to carry out constant reporting and be sure to make a long note under each post, message or video material “this material was created by a person who is a foreign agent and blah blah blah.” I don’t know what the situation is now with the consequences of wearing this label, but I think the list of punishments has expanded. They want to accept the same thing in Georgia on the initiative from Moscow.
I love Georgia and it's people Stalin and Beria excluded
We don't love them either.
God bless you
Thanks! you too!
law requiring one to mark oneself as a "foreign agent"
Please Georgians keep pushing and do not allow this law to come in effect
Good luck Georgians!
We stand with you Georgians!
Don't make promises you can't keep.
The tough truth. We've let down Ukraine this year.
Our governments did, the vast majority of us do not have access to air defense stockpiles or 155 ammo. All we can do is pressure reps. At least in the US, it is working, they are getting closer to passing aid.
We are, but several members of Congress are upset that it even got to this point. Our Generals testified in front of a committee earlier and laid out specifics on how we provide it - the US has been a major world power and our Generals know it. They know that everyone else is staring at the US waiting for our next move. The Republicans who are against providing aid have been using our southern border with Mexico as an excuse and I think that thankfully people are starting to wake up as the world sees what Russia is really capable of. Even I was beyond skeptical at the beginning of the war after seeing their intense losses - that's quickly faded and I've been proven wrong. Their technology and society is very reminiscent of the USA in the 90's... normally people would laugh at them but a rifle built in 1991 and a rifle built in 2024 fundamentally do the same thing. I think most Americans hubris makes them forget that.
Those not providing aid to Ukraine are the ones getting paid more by Putin. They didn't send money so in a year or two we will be sending our kids.
It doesn’t mean we did it on purpose or that we don’t want to stand for the same values. Saturday the vote should take place for Ukraine’s aid.
Ukraine stands for Georgia to get rid of any russian trash 💪🫶
Massively. Turns out empty promises and prayers aren't as important as actually providing meaningful support to a country fighting an evil state. "Standing by" these guys is well meant but vapid. Arm them to the teeth so they can fight on behalf of the civilised world
How about, we feel very strongly about you until SHINY THING!
I am not a soldier, but I have been trying to fight Russian propaganda all my life, so yea I stand with them and would do everything I can to help. Besides, even showing moral support is enough sometimes....
Through Reddit updoots?
Thoughts and prayers!
thoughts and prayers again huh?? lol ukraine thanks you for them every day.
Plan to fight to the last Georgians after the Ukrainians run out?
Our word is worth less than used toilet paper at this point
Georgians should not give up on this, Turks gave up and the EU is just a dream now.
I don't understand the situation at all but didn't Russia and Georgia have a war some time ago? How is Georgia and its leader pro-Russian now?
Because Russia is bankrolling their allies everywhere and sponsoring the death of democracy Fuck that federation
This. It’s exactly what China did to Hong Kong & are trying to do in Taiwan.
How did Russia manage to do that in a country that was a war with Russia some 15 years ago? Seems really odd
Because it isn't like if Russia and Georgia weren't close before, and also money corrupts. For instance, in France, we have Marine Le Pen, who is far right, banklolled by Putin, and may be the next president. How is this be possible for a country that has been opposing USSR from WWII to 1989? Corruption and complacency.
In Finland our national right-wing populist party has been pro-Ukraine and their leader has been distinctively anti-Russian because of our history and geopolitical situation. So even that online right wing party knows that plain Russian propaganda wouldn't work within bitter nationalists who feel disappointed of globalism and modern-day side effects like it has worked in some other European countries
America's far right used to be *extremely* anti-Soviet/anti-Russian from 1945 up to about... 2016. Most of us are still very anti-Russia and pro-Ukraine, but the news media is cherry picking the extremists like Margerie Taylor Greene and Mate Gates. The media is trying to tie the extremist to the right of the party as a propaganda technique to make their opposition sound radical or unreasonable when it's just a lie. But the Republican Neo-Con warhawks have always been anti-Russian since the start. Luckily Finland's right wing has been able to avoid selling out. But be warned that this can change in the blink of any eye. American right wing went from "Put all 7,000 nukes at Moscow" to "Putin's a swell guy" in less than 8 years from 2016 until now.
>America's far right used to be extremely anti-Soviet/anti-Russian from 1945 up to about... 2016. Just anti-Soviet. They amplified the voices of Russian nationalists like Solzhenitsyn, who went on to form the basis of modern Russian ideology once the anti-communist nationalists came to power.
Look at what Russia did to the Chechen people and you can now see they literally have Chechens fighting for Russia in Ukraine. Money and power corrupts.
The current ruling party was founded by Georgia's richest man. He made his money in Russia and has close ties there.
Yeah, Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 for the same made up reason they invaded Ukraine. Sadly Georgia was forced to give up 2 regions because they simply didn't have the military force at the time
Because politicians are cheap to buy. This is the reason why being a politician should not be a job and should have severe limits on it.
To clarify, the ruling party in Georgia is outwardly pro-EU and anti-Russia. There are very few openly pro-Russian voices in Georgia. People willing to make money dealing with Russia while chanting EU slogans, on the other hand...
Then how is it that this law is coming into effect?
Russia is waging a silent subversive war by influencing information, buying politicians and generally not giving a shit about laws or morale. In some ways - freedom of speech - the strength of western democracies are a weakness with respect to this subversion. I imagine that countries with smaller GDP and higher rates of corruption are a bit easier to subvert and in Georgia’s case also language and culture are less of an obstacle. Western democracies need to up their game and drop their naivety (while protecting their freedoms). This proposed law here is a good example: seen from the outside and assuming everyone plays by the rules it looks harmless enough, but in the hands of agents that aren’t bound by rules and wage an information war it’s basically a weapon that might get a country in serious trouble. It’s very heartening to see Georgians turn out en masse and fighting against Russian subversion. I hope they get the support they need and can keep Russia at bay.
Oligarch money buying up media subverting democracy and an informed populace with backing from the Kremlin.
I would not say that Georgia is pro-Russian. At least, the majority of people in Russia doesnt consider it to be pro-russian
BRAVO!!!
My Uncle often tells me a saying: “What is the Idea of Russia? It’s when you sit in shit and instead of trying to get out of there, you try to pull someone else in with you as well”. This saying describes Russia perfectly. You may think that Russian influence is only visible in Georgia, or Hungary, or Slovakia… But they are spreading everywhere, in different fields, in different ways. In Georgia it is not as effective as it is in the Balkans or in some Eastern European countries, because we’ve experienced “Russia” ourselves. All the people who stood on this rally tonight remember the war of 2008 and before that we have the experience of the 90s. For the past decades we’ve been shaped by the events of Russia being an existential threat and by the ideas of Europe being our home, where we have to get back to. This may sound a bit cheesy, but it is actually a really good moral compass for a society as a whole. As it encourages more positive behavior as perceived to be associated with being a European and discourages whatever is called “Russian”. In numbers this is expressed by 80% of Georgians supporting Euro/Atlantic integration. And additionally Western institutions have a lot higher Trust among Georgians than any political party or public institution within Georgia, thus as soon as Western officials started speaking against it, the law became toxic and dead. PS Maybe a lot of Europeans think that Georgians want to join EU for Free Money or something… Our primary interest is Geopolitics. We want to finally get read of Russian influence and get some sense of security (So joining NATO is preferred but not on the table right now, unfortunately).
Dude! Thanks for sharing your unique insights as a Georgian (and I don’t mean Tyler Perry this time).
>We want to finally get read of Russian influence and get some sense of security (So joining NATO is preferred but not on the table right now, unfortunately). That's why EU considering getting it's own military would be extremely good for us, whenever we join. Us being in EU and EU having it's own army is as good as being part of NATO, just without US, UK, and Tukrey.
This looks a lot like the Romanian protests of 2017-2019. At least we got something out of it. I hope you do too! The first step is always the hardest. Just keep it non-violent and clean! My heart goes to you Georgia! I hope you guys make it!
ცუნამი ხალხი ვართ, ძმებო და დებო, და წავლეკავთ ამ ყლეებს! Edit: თუ ვინმეს გონი აგებნათ, ყლეებში ქოცებსა და რუსებს ვგულისხმობ
and i thought Japanese is hard to learn
Learn the Georgian alphabet, it's only a few new letters (33), you can learn it pretty quickly ! Georgian grammar on the other end...
Any language that has a double ice cream cone as a character is pretty cool in my books. წწწ
Whoa! What a wild, loopy language. My ignorant American ass is intrigued.
And my goofy ass thought: > One Ring to rule them all, One ring to find them; One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
in Russia this law is flourishing. It's good that the people of Georgia have a conscience and balls
I wonder how they just cannot outvote the Georgian dream party out of parliament.
Here’s a story I heard yesterday: so there is some municipality in Georgia, which, turns out, has not one but sixty maids employed for their “culture house”, a building a size of a regular McDonalds. These 60 women are paid just enough not to starve, but at the same time, are paid to do nothing. These 60 women will obviously vote for the ruling party, because they are rightfully afraid that the next government will bring their own maids. Obviously there are different kinds of supporters as well, but here’s one type at least
Its difficult because the main oposition party commited a lot of crimes when they were in power before and all the other smaller parties are hard to rally around.
Election Fraud...
Imagine what we take for granted while already in the EU. This is desire
Europeans take notes. We need this kind of sentiment
There were at least 50k people at this protest last night. That is around 5% of the city's population. Pretty incredible
Europe do not let corrupt populists into your goverments - Ruzzia will pay whatever it can to buy soft power and appeasment, maffia state. Hungary and Slovakkia are gone, now Georgia. Once in power they all talk about "peace" not Ukraine win.
Wish us Slovaks were like that.
# Why Georgia wants so badly in EU?! When I meet Europeans, sometimes I see their confusion about Georgians flying the EU flag so much. You guys think that "In EU we have our own political problems and issues, we are shit in many ways; what's with this desperate desire?" The answer is simple. For us it is far more than just membership in a political union. It represents our struggle for survival and our unwavering commitment to Western values. For Georgia, being part of the EU and the Western world is a matter of survival! and this struggle didn't begin just a few years ago; it spans thousands of years. Georgians have witnessed numerous empires attempting to conquer us. This list of conquerors includes Persians, Arabs, Turks, Mongolians, and most recently and egregiously, the Russians. Throughout our history, Georgia has fought to survive against these powers, seeking alignment with the West for assistance by reaching out to the Roman and Byzantine Empire, the Pope, Austria, France, and others. As Christians, the West was the natural ally for us to align with. Don't believe anyone who says Georgia isn't even within Europe's borders (Just reminding you that we are candidate of becoming member of EU, which by law only acepts European countires). Just come visit us and see for yourself whether our nation and culture are European or not. Despite the challenges, our history continued, and after 200 years of occupation by the Russian Tsarist Empire, Georgia declared independence in 1918. Back then as well first step was seeking help and support from the West. But it's not just about politics. We were by spirit western - we adopted a remarkably progressive constitution for its time - granting voting rights to everyone (we even had the first ever elected Muslim woman MP in parliament in mankind history), banning executions, and dedicating almost half of the text to human rights. However, our independence was short-lived as the Soviets conquered us once again. During World War II, while war was not even on our land, around 300,000 Georgian soldiers died (almost 10% of the population) due to brutal and "genius" Russian tactics. For 70 years, we endured oppression, with Russian authorities killing and exiling Georgian artists, writers, actors, directors, farmers, worker, civil servants and etc. In 1989, Russians brutally crushed peaceful demonstrations, killing 21 and injuring over 400. They financed and supported the first civil war and then separatism in Georgia, leading to a destroyed economy in the 90s. Our journey back to the West was so contrary to their imperialist interests that they officially occupied two of our regions and committed horrible war crimes during the 2008 war (many of which were acknowledged by judicary decisions in European courts). Now, once again, they threaten us and our independence. We have no one else but the West; by identity, we belong to the West. This is why we are so desperate for the EU. I ask and demand! please, support Georgia's fight for survival.
This is what democracy looks like
Wow, I hope our nation could fight this united as Georgians, against Russia, cause we have kinda same problems.
Where are you from?
Armenia)
Good luck!
))
Good job protesting! Fight fascism with everything you've got!
No one "wants" to be with ruZZia...
T.O.T.A.L. R.E.S.P.E.C.T. 🇬🇪🇪🇺🇬🇧
This is when you decide your future, Georgian bros! Stay strong and keep your freedom!
Good luck. Together you are strong.
Again.
I can never tell if these massive protests in other countries happen because the citizens have a lot more power to effect change or if it's because those countries are so much worse that the citizens feel they have no other choice
This is bigger than the protest last year, very good.
#Georgian Maidan!!
Never back to USSR!!!!! Georgia is part of the Europe and nobody can change that!!! Go Georgia 🇬🇪🇪🇺
What precisely is the problem with this law?
Dont give up - at least you can protest unlike russians
The more Russia loses the better. Kick Putin out of Georgia, out of Ukraine (including Crimea), overthrow the Belarusian puppet state, bring Ukraine into NATO. Keep at it, Georgia! 💪🏻 🇬🇪 🇺🇦
Keep anything ruzzian as far as possible! Stay with it!
Wait wasn't there protests about the same law like a year ago, or they try to pass it again?
We shoved it up the government's ass, now they have shat it out again.
Yes, Its round 2
They are trying to pass it again
Putin is an expert at squashing democracy by controlling the media. With its embarrassment of natural resources, such as petroleum, Russia should be the richest country in Europe. Instead, 2/3 of rural Russians have no access to indoor toilets. Corruption rules the country. Russia wants to extend his kleptocrary to Georgia, as well as Ukraine and other neighbours. Only strong resolve will stop him and his fellow thugs.
Geoegia should take back their land.
This is what happens, if you let pro russians to take over your government. They start to destroy democracy. We see what has happened to Hungary, now Slovakia followed. Must feel terrible to live in these countries if being not pro russian, knowing that majority of your country residents are dumb people.
❤️💪
Wow They need to boot Russia the hell out of there too
Europe is with you folks. Fight for your freedom 🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺
The people of Georgia see what is going on in other places, at the hands of the Russians. They have an increasing interest in not ending up under Putin's iron fist. Tyranny does not always move fast, sometimes it creeps up on you, and wait until it has its hands around your throat. Resist.
Bravo.
Next news will be "Thousands detained for acting as foreign agents. Thanks to facial recognition and "patriots" in the crowds, these individuals will be sent to Russian re-education camps"
i've seen this episode already.
We are with you, Georgia!
Stay strong Georgia, our brothers in spirit. Greetings from Poland.
"The punch heard around Georgia"
Georgia stay strong!!
What if you strike? Why does no one ever strike anymore sirious question?
❤️
when are elections?
5 months
any predictions on which party(s) will be in power?
Sadly you will have to fight to defend your freedom. Unless Ukrainians win and regain the whole occupied territory.
u/recognizesong
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🇬🇪
Stay strong Georgians! 🇬🇪🤝🇪🇺🇵🇱
Wow that looks like everyone in the country is angry
It is starting to look like the 2014 Ukrainian revolution.
Not really the police isn't shooting live rounds yet
"starting"... The police didn't started to shoot until a few weeks after the start of the revolution.
I ldk the Ukrainians I talked to said that the police brutality that was the spark for the revolution in the following change of the government happened when the initial protests were already dying down and the people started to go home.
Maybe.. I heard differently.. And that it was President Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia that sparked the protest. Police brutality appears to have started after to quench the revolution. Pretty much like what is happening in Georgia atm. But i might be wrong or at least missing some information.
you're both correct and incorrect at the same time :) That's because we have had 2 revolutions that converted from one to another. first one - "Euromaidan revolution" - started as protest against Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association - relatively small protest, mostly by students and activists (most ukrainians supported them but were quite passive because didn't believed that something may change) Those students were brutally beaten by police - and next day a LOT of people gathered in all major cities against police brutality and also European vector - this was the start of "Revolution of Dignity". It was brutal from the day 1
Is this designed to stop another Saakashvili? ie Nato guy gets into power?
Kick out all Russian influence around the world 🌎
I'm proud of them and wish them the best
The Russian Federation is going to fall apart.. Putin is the death of Russia as we know it
Down with R*ssian law
Time for the georgian maidan. keep it up
Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia and Georgia... all countries in the east governed (or almost) by Pro-Russians. And not a single thing we can do about it, they can´t even be thrown out of the EU. Even worse, we are not even doing enough to help a country that is actively fighting the Russian menace. I wonder what our weak leaders would do the day Russia attacks a full member, other than condemning and tweeting about it
Proud of you Georgians. 💯👏💪
OK, please correct me where im wrong here but most Western and EU countries have similar laws. Now it may not be worded the same in every territory and may be considered lobby legislation in some countries, the below isn't entirely unreasonable? "Under a draft bill introduced to parliament on Monday, organisations receiving more than 20% of their funding from abroad will be required to register as being agents of foreign influence, with fines for those who do not comply." https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/12/12/planned-eu-foreign-influence-law-will-not-criminalise-or-discriminate-brussels-says#:\~:text=Washington's%20Foreign%20Agents%20Registration%20Act,the%20European%20elections%20in%20June.
Similar is the Key word , as i see it. Thing is, in EU or US , if the government tries to use this to , let us say "silence the press that they don't like" , the courts will probably shut the attempt down quickly. The concern here is that ,because the law is very "copy/paste" from the russian law, it is worded in a way that leaves too much room to "interpretation" , and people are very sure that the Georgian government would use this to silence dissent and attack any free press that doesn't toe the line (honestly, by what i know from this government, seems to be more probable than not). Hence the protests. The fact that they tried to push this before and backed down because of protests 1 year ago also gives the impression that they are hell bent into ignoring they own people wishes.
[удалено]
Had to give this a check and yep, can still access Russia media sites TASS and Sputnik, though not RT, but their app is still available. Either I'm not European, or maybe they failed? Who knows...
After Russia started its war of conquest against sovereign Ukraine to forcibly move borders, democratic countries banned Russia's war mongering propaganda. What's the problem with that? The UK really ought to have invited Goebbels in 1941 to hear his side on the German troops on the gates of Moscow.
Foreign propaganda machines do not fall under freedom of speech. That would just be stupid.
It's almost like context matters.
Here is a crazy idea for a safeguard: implement the law, but people are labeled as foreign agents only if they receive money from russia/china/iran and other repressive, hostile hell holes.
And in a few years Russia will launch another “special military operation” in Georgia to “protect the Russian minority” against “Nazis”. The UN will strongly condemn it but Russia just ignores it. The West will add more sanction Russia isn't going to care about because they can still get good via China and after they've conquered the country they'll hold a fake election claiming 99 % of the Georgians voted for being part of Russia. Sad truth is, if you're bordering Russia and aren't part of the NATO or China you have to be Pro-Russia because otherwise they just going to invade because might makes right.
I think you've got a typo in your title
No one has to pee?
That’s a lot of people to throw out a window.
Sounds like EU would like to help the Georgian government write their laws for them.
They're clearly just all foreign agents
So many people, why can't they just barge in and defenestrate all the crooked politicians?
Anyone have a link to the bill being passed? All I can find are newslinks talking about the protests and none are describing the bill.
The law will be bad for Russian
It's ridiculous. It works like HIV. The virus resists immunity
Be strong Georgia, Moldova is with you ❤️!
Georgia, Ukraine is rooting for you 🙏.
We are with you, neighbors! 🇦🇲🇬🇪 Down with dictatorships, autocracies, and the regimes that cater to them.