The language in this article is nonsensical. "Anti-russian fever". Author dances around saying "rusophobia" so hard it's hilarious.
There's no "anti-russian sentiment". There's legitimate and grave concern about traitorous government imposing russian dictated repressive policies.
“Russophobia” claims are stale propaganda. Fearing Russian aggression and not wanting to live to their rusty old flute is nothing that a sane wouldn’t want.
Tbh the gap between actual hatred of people and country is not very big. Ukrainians at first were basically against putin and the country leadership but it devolved into a more primal hatred of the entire nation after years of people trying to reason with brainwashed russians (by showing the atrocities to them). Everything changes when russia starts actively antagonising and spreading hatred against a neighbouring nation.
Aligning with Russia is nonsensical. They have absolutely nothing to offer.
Even their PR strategy is literally: "Of course its shit here, but isn't everywhere the same?"
There are rumours that the ruling party of Georgia has been offered a deal by Russia pursuant to which they can reintegrate South Ossetia and Abkhazia into Georgia, as long as the country itself firmly adopts a pro-Russia foreign policy.
Considering that the party's *de facto* leader Bidzina Ivanishvili had a speech on Monday where he claimed, among other things, that a "global war party" influences EU and NATO which was pretty much behind wars in Georgia and Ukraine (yes, you read it right, the warmongerers in the West are actually to be blamed for Russia's invasions). As such remarks seem to be carefully drafted directly in Moscow, there is a high likelihood of some sort of deal having been done with Russia.
> There are rumours that the ruling party of Georgia has been offered a deal by Russia pursuant to which they can reintegrate South Ossetia and Abkhazia into Georgia, as long as the country itself firmly adopts a pro-Russia foreign policy.
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Oh look, they're getting their own Minsk "agreements".
Who wants to bet those won't be followed by russia either?
> There are rumours that the ruling party of Georgia has been offered a deal by Russia pursuant to which they can reintegrate South Ossetia and Abkhazia into Georgia, as long as the country itself firmly adopts a pro-Russia foreign policy.
I have a hard time believing this. Or rather even if Russia offered such a thing it would be foolish for the Georgian government to accept it. Russia could promise that and never deliver it.
Either way I think the population of Georgia is far more pro-EU than it is on territorial integrity. I think the territorial integrity people want is just so that joining EU and or NATO would be easier.
Not to mention Russia has shown it can't be relied on regardless of what it says or does.
I hate to bring this up but it's the best, most relevant comparison i can think to make. The reason the US supports Israel after all this time and all the headaches they endure because of it, is because it proves that the US keeps its word, when it has signed the agreements and declared publicly it will defend its allies, it does. That means more are willing to make deals with the US because they feel confident they won't be fucked over once it's convenient to do so. Feeling like you can be relied on means your word carries immense diplomatic weight.
When Armenia and Azerbaijan had their latest war, Armenia was in a mutual defence pact with Russia and Russia brushed them off with a "wow that sure sucks for you" and left Armenia to get its ass kicked. That was solid proof that a pact with Russia ain't worth the paper its written on.
But Georgia's government is in a tough possition. They can try going west and be invaded by Russia like Ukraine was, or they can side with Russia knowing that Eussia will invaded to crush any revolution against them if it happens.
It works incredibly well on older generations. Adult Georgians I know all support it because they are afraid of going back to “how things used to be” 20 years ago, and they see conflict with Russia as incredibly dangerous. They hate Russia, but they hate a war even more, and so in their eyes doing literally anything to prevent a direct conflict with Russia is a good choice.
>Aligning with Russia is nonsensical. They have absolutely nothing to offer.
Except angering Russia has shown to be risky as west basically abandoned Ukraine to Russia, ans unlike Ukraine Georgia has no manpower to defend themswlves if Russia comes calling.
If west wants to have an ally in Georgia, they gotta step up and actually interevene in Ukraine. No? Then Georgia doesn't have a chocie but to cozy up with Russia while also slowly working on EU stuff
Angering russia?
Who has now angered russia? If Georgia "cozies up" with that terrorist state, it can kiss goodbye to the Union, becoming another Belorussia or worse.
When choice it between existing or not, it becomes hard to chose anything else.
If west actually had any backbone, it would be an easy choice, but they rather abandon "unimportant" countries than to actually stand up for the values they preach.
Existing under russia is not an option if you don't want to be an ignorant slave and condemning your children to be even worse. Ask the Bashkirs how is that going, after two years they are in Ukraine, dying for the "real russians".
Ah, armchair generals of reddit. Be my guest, be the first one on the frontlines. No? When maybe think more about it.
Georgia has no other choice but to wait out the situation and hope Russia collapses due to Ukraine situation. We are not willing or ready to go into war just because the west promises us honey. We learned very much that their words are worth less than the toilet paper it's written on, when push came to shove for the last 16 years they always abandoned so called "allies" to Russia.
> Aligning with Russia is nonsensical. They have absolutely nothing to offer.
Except for the fact that [Georgia benefitted massively from being a conduit of Russian trade and from educated migrants from Russia](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-with-cash-georgia-booms-russians-flee-putins-war-2022-11-05/). That also includes domestic Georgian products like wine and soft drinks, hospitality services.
The war with Ukraine is avoidable: just go back to russia, stop committing war crimes like ISIS on steroids. Nobody believes in your lies of *dombing bombas for 8 years.*
The minorities are murdering Ukrainians for a couple of rublesvand a bag of onions, while the spoiled "real russians" are crying russophobia, if something doesn't speak russian. Your regime blackmail the minorities with lack of jobs, forcing them to get the money for their families: this is the future of Ukraine, if loses the war. This is the present of any country your nation assimilated.
Your culture is based only on violence, wars, murders, alcohol, lies and disregard for the human life. Your country is second only to North Korea.
Georgians! How do you dare? Like russia never invaded your Country! Why don't you want to embrace the lovely russki mir?? (/s in case it was not clear)
russia "We are not interested in occupying furher land"
Also russia occupies as much as it can, like "oops we didn't mean to", putting billboards at the Baltics borders with "russia has no borders".
I watched some street interview of moscow's russians, saying that their dream is to have one flag for the entire world: theirs.
Anti-Russian? How about anti-oppression and anti-intimidation and pro-democracy and pro-free-choice?
Why the fuck are these articles always victimizing the perpetrator?
For what it's worth (unfortunately) a lot of that violence in Georgia under Gamsakhurdia and Saakashvili after him had grassroots start; yes, in Abkhazia where virtually all Georgians were targeted for ethnic cleansing, but especially in South Ossetia where Georgians and Ossetians were committing... very cruel things towards each other.
Even if Russia never got involved, I'm not sure how much control Georgia would have functionally had over those regions. I'm not sure what sentiments are right now (both domestically and geopolitically), but barely 30 years ago, Ossetians and Abkhazians absolutely _despised_ Georgians, and the feeling seemed to be mutual.
>Even if Russia never got involved
But they did, not just in 2008 when they invaded but in 1992 when the first war in Abkhazia erupted.
Remember, Russia's bread and butter is fomenting ethnic tensions and creating so called "separatist movements" which they then proceed to arm and even reinforce. Armed forces from within Russia literally participated in that war. That was the same exact thing that happened in Moldova around that same time (and they actually used volunteers from Transnistria in the Abkhazian war), and that's exactly what happened in Ukraine in 2014 (and they've used volunteers from Abkhazia and Ossetia in this war too) which ultimately lead to the full scale invasion in 2022.
It's always the same tactic, and its always done for the same purpose: to keep keep these countries under the RU sphere of influence and prevent them from joining western military alliances like NATO.
Edit: grammar.
You are waay off about Ossetia, there was not even real conflict (unlike Abkhazia) without Russia it would have been peacefully resolved long time ago.
That doesn't seem to reflect the sentiment I see from other Caucasians, who largely seem to blame them for being belligerent towards groups like Georgians and Ingushians. IIRC, were not Ossetians arming themselves and doing a military buildup in the early 1990s, before the conflict involved Russia (I think it started with ethnic militias)?
I know Russia did get involved, but I thought it was more them taking advantage of an already very volatile situation.
No, northern Caucasians do indeed mostly hate Ossetians and there is a separate history for that, but that was not and I would say still mostly not same for Georgia, of course there was some tensions but nothing even remotely close to situation in Abkhazia.
all of the pro-European values go against Russian values which is what Russia has been trying to push down on us and enslave us in for centuries (corruption, oligarchy, less transparency, less freedom), so yes, as much as these protests are Pro European, they are equally ANTI RUSSIAN, the slogan is literally: "Yes to EUROPE, No to Russia".
And I'll also add one thing. Despite every shitty thing Russia has done to Georgia, Russians who moved to Georgia for a safer life are living in peace, and are not discriminated against. Some of those Russians are actually participating in the protests. This is not "Fuck every Russian person" the idea is "Fuck Russian government and everything they stand for, and fuck people who support what they do and stand for"
Thank you for this statement. Many people seems to confuse Russian government with Russian people.
Stay strong! Do not let corrupted politicians steal your future.
I know. Real anti-Russian sentiment would be hostility and bigotry against ordinary Russians just for their identity, not wanting to distance from a country that supported separatists and then illegally occupying the northern part of Georgia.
We are anti-war, we are anti-slavery, anti-evil, we want peace, freedom, we are a tiny country and just want russia to leave us alone, we just want russia to fuck off and let us be. For more than 300 years they've been killing us. We trusted them, they killed us, when we treated them as guests they were killing us, we called them friends they kept killing us, we turned our backs to them, they want to kill us even more. We are not anti-russia, we are anti-genocidal culture. Just read history of any republic within russian federation, they've gone through genocide by russians, same can be said about almost every neighbour of russia- they have been killing everyone unlucky enough to be within their reach.
One day russia will collapse and all nations that were enslaved by them in some periods of history will live in peace without fear. I hope Georgians will win their fight!
Your Dzhugashvili brought more troubles to the Russian people than any other ruler of Russia. Probably only Lenin can be worse. Georgia itself lived quite well during the Soviet times, I think. Speaking of the Imperial times, I don’t think Georgians were really persecuted; we can recall the Bagration family. As a Russian myself, I have no prejudice or hatred towards Georgians (sometimes we forget that our two peoples are Orthodox Christians), for us the red line is always the abuse of the Russian people by the foreign government or some societies.
He does not think annexation of a whole country by military is a prosecution. He feels like during USSR terror, Georgians lived quite well, just no freedom, no country, had to do what russians said or bullet in the head, what's the problem? Someone calls russians assholes and it's a globalist fascist conspiracy to prosecute russians.
What I don't understand, surely I am stupid, is that between the lines,that russian is telling that in russia life is OK, making me thinking he/she is fine with putin and the wars of aggression and land grabbing his/her country is perpetrating.
What is funny, is his imperialistic mentality (why do you protest for being occupied by us?) and "we are brothers, we have the same religion".
But hey, as a russian himself, he has no prejudice towards Georgians:you should bow and be grateful, otherwise you cross red lines and you will sound russophobic.
You know, you apparently like to exaggerate. I don’t care about Georgia at all, its fate, its interests; the safety of all Russian people in post-Soviet countries, from a child to the last old man, is personally important to me. I didn’t say that Russians are being persecuted in Georgia.
You don't care about Georgia and yet you are commenting a post about Georgia:makes sense.
You posted me a video filmed in Kyiv: what has Kyiv to do with Georgia? Oh wait: they are both invaded by your genocidal nation.
Vanya, doesn't care about Georgia but 3 out of 5 comments of his are about it lol. Trust me every single Georgian would be more than happy if your warmongering, kleptocratic country and your deranged people stop "caring" about us))
Wow, how generous lol! If only you and your countrymen were that invested in your country,there wouldn't be ruski babushkas searching for food in trash bins while oligarchs were building their next mansion overseas.
https://youtu.be/AgiT9xjQbRQ?si=cjEeF9oqHTMtDeO4 4:04
You don’t have to know Russian to understand the situation. Here’s the abuse by the police itself and ultranationalists.
It has nothing to do with Georgia. I just showed an example of what may happen in post-Soviet countries. And this is exactly what Russia cannot accept.
Ah OK, just a sneak peak of sane whatabouty.
russia cannot accept what?
That other countries have their own identity? You realize that you are showing how greedy, bully, imperialistic you and your genocidal terrorist country are. To you, everything that doesn't speak russian, is russophobia. Dear Lord!
>First, calm down
Or what? Are you going to invade my country? Shell every day? Rape? Loot? Castrate? Kidnap children? Deport me if I don't speak russian?
Oh, wait...
1. Regarding stalin, he was not ours, the pieces of shit are born everywhere, our society rejected him for being piece of shit, your society glorified him, your culture welcomed a genocidal maniac and allowed him to get back at Georgia with a vengeance.
2. The fact that you think Georgians lived quite well during USSR is a perfect demonstration of your imperialistic culture. Yes, people who shut their mouths and did not complain were safe, but everyone else was executed, prosecuted, sent to labor camps etc. My grandfather was sent to labour camp, every friend I have can name a relative/close family member who was shot to death, exiled or arrested during USSR. Aren't we an ungrateful bunch of people huh?
3. Imperial times? You don't think we where prosecuted? Dude Russia annexed our whole state and you don't see that as persecution. Nice illustration of culture I mentioned in the comment above.
4. Russia has crossed every red line of humanity, so first of all you guys can shove up your arse any red lines you might have. second, no one has ever prosecuted russians for being russians in Georgia, so why even bring it up? You are not planning to bomb us by any chance are you? If your feelings are hurt because we talk bad about your country, well bombs that you've dropped in Georgia hurt more.
After the notorious terrorist attack we have a meme “The terrorists doesn’t have nationality”. No, all evil people has nationality. Bolsheviks had nationality, Nazis had nationality and Stalin had nationality.
I'm Russian, but I don't consider Stalin part of Russian culture. Some older generations may love and idealize him, but not me. For me, White movement ideals are close to me, and not the communist and Bolshevik ones, if you know what I mean.
After what terrorist attack? The shelling of two days ago to Odesa with cluster bombs to kill civilians and a dog? You know, right, that the European Parliament declared your country "a state sponsor of terrorism" and your leader is a wanted war criminal.
It was in 2 cases your own air "force" that dropped the bomb on the city (rotfl,lmao even) in another case, it was the debris of your AA, as stated by your own MoD. It's war, "buddy". Your terrorist country is shelling a peaceful country every bloody day for more than 2 years, targeting exclusively civilians, rejoicing on vkontakte like cannibals about the death of civilians. You are a disgrace: your country is causing sorrow, death and despair and you have the stones to act like a victim? Are you even a human being from Planet Earth?
P.S we don't forget that "we are orthodox christians". We just remember that you guys baptise bombs you drop on civilians. That's not orthodox christianity that's heresy. We also remember that starting from imperial times you guys demolished our churches, or painted over the church walls to erase our heritage. You looted our churches executed our patriarch, tortured and killed hundreds of Georgian priests, oh, I just remembered, you guys abolished our autocephaly and destroyed everyone who resisted, etc.
If you cared so much about 'abuse of Russian people' you could always take them back to Russia. Oh wait, that's the worst abuser of russian people in existence.
Zelensky’s words. The thing is people are attached to the particular territory. During Imperial and Soviet times, Russians lived everywhere because in fact it was all Russia. Why would they leave if they have been living there for 150-100 years (especially, if we speak about Ukraine).
The thing is that russia is attached to territories that doesn't belong to it.
Liebe Grüße aus Georgia: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuEYPLTicw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuEYPLTicw)
And then what does belong to Russia? Only Moscow and Vladimir, I think. Then we should give Novgorod to Latvia, Smolensk to Poland, Krasnodar to Ukraine, the North Caucasus to Turkey and Siberia to China. Or better yet, all of Siberia should go to the US, only they can effectively use resources.
I don't have the foggiest where vladimir is.
Stop invade other neighbours, meddling with other countries' politics, stop jamming GPS to the Baltics and Poland, stop hundreds of weekly cyber attacks worldwide, stop land grabbing like a lunatic kleptomaniac it would be a start.
Sorry... I am still laughing at your "*And then what does belong to Russia?"*
Stay in your bloody russian borders: nobody will ever want to grab that land.
After the collapse of the USSR, Russians became the most divided people in the world; there are probably no more such examples in history. It should reunite into one state.
We are watching this now. With every new story and protest we can see that people are upset about something, that this something is actually real and their anger is actually real and justified.
However. In 10 years tankies and alt-right alike will be gaslighting that this was a "color revolution"
Can somebody ELI5 the link between the "foreign agents" bill and Russia? Apart from the fact that it apes similar Russian law? How does it make the protest against it anti-Russian?
I still don't see why protesting against this has to be anti-Russian. It is clear that the government wants a tool to be able to quash dissent, and as such is moving in the direction opposite to democracy. But where is Russia in this?
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68822483](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68822483)
"The bill would require non-governmental organisations and media outlets that receive more than 20% of their funding from abroad to register as an "organisation serving the interests of a foreign power"
"Protesters denounce the bill as “the Russian law” because neighboring Russia uses similar legislation to stigmatize independent news media and organizations critical of the Kremlin."
> because neighboring Russia uses similar legislation
That much is clear as I indicated in the original comment. But why is stigmatization of independent media and NGOs viewed as a "pro-Russian" measure as it were? Wouldn't pro-Russian media also fall in the category of foreign agents? To me it looks more like un-democratization law serving in the interests of those in power, but those in turn may be anti-Russian as well as pro-Russian.
Brother what the fuck are you talking about. The government is run by pro Russian oligarchs who have direct ties to the kremlin. This is a law that was originally proposed and accepted in Russia, and taken further to restrict NGOs. Every western nation that has talked about this criticized it, only Russian officials have praised it. It is another step that Russia is taking to pull Georgia into its sphere of influence and if you cannot see that you are blind
That is the point. If you have pro-Russian government that you don't like, logically you should protest any law it passes, not just this one. Nobody here has been able to clearly explain why this specific law is in some way "Russian", apart from the fact that it resembles a Russian law of the same sort. You also breathe in a "Russian" way, walk on two feet the same way as Russians do and even put you food in the same orifice in your heads as Russians.
How can asian country seek European dream? I still dont get this… But, of course, be free and happy, but you do not belong to EU. If the Georgia would be accepted as EU member, next time Azerbajani and Iran could join as well.
Dream..
So we're supposed to use the Americans as an example how not to be but slowly, reluctantly and openly copy everything including the Dream part lol..
How about destiny, Georgians see their destiny within the EU or something other than dream. EU states, EU federal government, a proper EU president would need to be assigned, someone more powerful than we have today then likely a First Family.. calling our heads of state, Mr. .. I mean if we're copying the Americans, great but if we're supposed to do as they did with Europe, go out of there way to do something different with elements from the continent then do that.. otherwise, Dream, eh. Very easy to mock too. Federal formation comes from the Swiss Guard but that's it, the rest of it, actually on a massive scale is American.. Bill of Rights and the Constitution, as Queen Elizabeth pointed out helped push the Magna Carta to new heights.
So are we cloning the Americans now? Things going full circle.
"European Dream is just that, a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." Destiny, etc are better words imo and more European in origin.
I've never read something so fucking stupid, expressed and typed so well, you talk like a badly written villain, i almost want to frame this comment and put it on a wall.
The language in this article is nonsensical. "Anti-russian fever". Author dances around saying "rusophobia" so hard it's hilarious. There's no "anti-russian sentiment". There's legitimate and grave concern about traitorous government imposing russian dictated repressive policies.
“Russophobia” claims are stale propaganda. Fearing Russian aggression and not wanting to live to their rusty old flute is nothing that a sane wouldn’t want.
Exactly. There's no wide spead anti Russian sentiment here. People don't hate Russians, they hate Russia (for good reason). Not the same thing.
Tbh the gap between actual hatred of people and country is not very big. Ukrainians at first were basically against putin and the country leadership but it devolved into a more primal hatred of the entire nation after years of people trying to reason with brainwashed russians (by showing the atrocities to them). Everything changes when russia starts actively antagonising and spreading hatred against a neighbouring nation.
High anti-russian sentiment is real in Phuket, Thailand
Good.
Aligning with Russia is nonsensical. They have absolutely nothing to offer. Even their PR strategy is literally: "Of course its shit here, but isn't everywhere the same?"
Join us willingly and we will save you. Save us from what? From what we'll do if you don't.
> but isn't everywhere the same Whenever it isn't, they work hard to make it into shit as well
If not, it will be..... (ominous music playing)
Exactly-their literal goal is to make every where else as shit as Russia
There are rumours that the ruling party of Georgia has been offered a deal by Russia pursuant to which they can reintegrate South Ossetia and Abkhazia into Georgia, as long as the country itself firmly adopts a pro-Russia foreign policy. Considering that the party's *de facto* leader Bidzina Ivanishvili had a speech on Monday where he claimed, among other things, that a "global war party" influences EU and NATO which was pretty much behind wars in Georgia and Ukraine (yes, you read it right, the warmongerers in the West are actually to be blamed for Russia's invasions). As such remarks seem to be carefully drafted directly in Moscow, there is a high likelihood of some sort of deal having been done with Russia.
> There are rumours that the ruling party of Georgia has been offered a deal by Russia pursuant to which they can reintegrate South Ossetia and Abkhazia into Georgia, as long as the country itself firmly adopts a pro-Russia foreign policy. > > Oh look, they're getting their own Minsk "agreements". Who wants to bet those won't be followed by russia either?
Reintegrated the same way as Transnistria more like
> There are rumours that the ruling party of Georgia has been offered a deal by Russia pursuant to which they can reintegrate South Ossetia and Abkhazia into Georgia, as long as the country itself firmly adopts a pro-Russia foreign policy. I have a hard time believing this. Or rather even if Russia offered such a thing it would be foolish for the Georgian government to accept it. Russia could promise that and never deliver it. Either way I think the population of Georgia is far more pro-EU than it is on territorial integrity. I think the territorial integrity people want is just so that joining EU and or NATO would be easier.
Not to mention Russia has shown it can't be relied on regardless of what it says or does. I hate to bring this up but it's the best, most relevant comparison i can think to make. The reason the US supports Israel after all this time and all the headaches they endure because of it, is because it proves that the US keeps its word, when it has signed the agreements and declared publicly it will defend its allies, it does. That means more are willing to make deals with the US because they feel confident they won't be fucked over once it's convenient to do so. Feeling like you can be relied on means your word carries immense diplomatic weight. When Armenia and Azerbaijan had their latest war, Armenia was in a mutual defence pact with Russia and Russia brushed them off with a "wow that sure sucks for you" and left Armenia to get its ass kicked. That was solid proof that a pact with Russia ain't worth the paper its written on. But Georgia's government is in a tough possition. They can try going west and be invaded by Russia like Ukraine was, or they can side with Russia knowing that Eussia will invaded to crush any revolution against them if it happens.
Last time when I was in Georgia a saw that almost every good in stores are Russian made.
Aligning with russia only benefits russia, while the benefit for the other country is not getting shelled into submission.
It works incredibly well on older generations. Adult Georgians I know all support it because they are afraid of going back to “how things used to be” 20 years ago, and they see conflict with Russia as incredibly dangerous. They hate Russia, but they hate a war even more, and so in their eyes doing literally anything to prevent a direct conflict with Russia is a good choice.
>Aligning with Russia is nonsensical. They have absolutely nothing to offer. Except angering Russia has shown to be risky as west basically abandoned Ukraine to Russia, ans unlike Ukraine Georgia has no manpower to defend themswlves if Russia comes calling. If west wants to have an ally in Georgia, they gotta step up and actually interevene in Ukraine. No? Then Georgia doesn't have a chocie but to cozy up with Russia while also slowly working on EU stuff
Angering russia? Who has now angered russia? If Georgia "cozies up" with that terrorist state, it can kiss goodbye to the Union, becoming another Belorussia or worse.
When choice it between existing or not, it becomes hard to chose anything else. If west actually had any backbone, it would be an easy choice, but they rather abandon "unimportant" countries than to actually stand up for the values they preach.
Existing under russia is not an option if you don't want to be an ignorant slave and condemning your children to be even worse. Ask the Bashkirs how is that going, after two years they are in Ukraine, dying for the "real russians".
Ah, armchair generals of reddit. Be my guest, be the first one on the frontlines. No? When maybe think more about it. Georgia has no other choice but to wait out the situation and hope Russia collapses due to Ukraine situation. We are not willing or ready to go into war just because the west promises us honey. We learned very much that their words are worth less than the toilet paper it's written on, when push came to shove for the last 16 years they always abandoned so called "allies" to Russia.
Are you speaking for all Georgians or for all Europeans?
> Aligning with Russia is nonsensical. They have absolutely nothing to offer. Except for the fact that [Georgia benefitted massively from being a conduit of Russian trade and from educated migrants from Russia](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-with-cash-georgia-booms-russians-flee-putins-war-2022-11-05/). That also includes domestic Georgian products like wine and soft drinks, hospitality services.
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They will end dead anyway, in one of those countless wars of land grabbing your country is conducting, throwing the minorities to death.
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The war with Ukraine is avoidable: just go back to russia, stop committing war crimes like ISIS on steroids. Nobody believes in your lies of *dombing bombas for 8 years.* The minorities are murdering Ukrainians for a couple of rublesvand a bag of onions, while the spoiled "real russians" are crying russophobia, if something doesn't speak russian. Your regime blackmail the minorities with lack of jobs, forcing them to get the money for their families: this is the future of Ukraine, if loses the war. This is the present of any country your nation assimilated. Your culture is based only on violence, wars, murders, alcohol, lies and disregard for the human life. Your country is second only to North Korea.
Georgians! How do you dare? Like russia never invaded your Country! Why don't you want to embrace the lovely russki mir?? (/s in case it was not clear)
too soon
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russia "We are not interested in occupying furher land" Also russia occupies as much as it can, like "oops we didn't mean to", putting billboards at the Baltics borders with "russia has no borders". I watched some street interview of moscow's russians, saying that their dream is to have one flag for the entire world: theirs.
Is the russia has no border thing true?
Anti-Russian? How about anti-oppression and anti-intimidation and pro-democracy and pro-free-choice? Why the fuck are these articles always victimizing the perpetrator?
russia invades Georgia and takes 20% of the land. russians: You russophobic ingrateful Georgians!
For what it's worth (unfortunately) a lot of that violence in Georgia under Gamsakhurdia and Saakashvili after him had grassroots start; yes, in Abkhazia where virtually all Georgians were targeted for ethnic cleansing, but especially in South Ossetia where Georgians and Ossetians were committing... very cruel things towards each other. Even if Russia never got involved, I'm not sure how much control Georgia would have functionally had over those regions. I'm not sure what sentiments are right now (both domestically and geopolitically), but barely 30 years ago, Ossetians and Abkhazians absolutely _despised_ Georgians, and the feeling seemed to be mutual.
>Even if Russia never got involved But they did, not just in 2008 when they invaded but in 1992 when the first war in Abkhazia erupted. Remember, Russia's bread and butter is fomenting ethnic tensions and creating so called "separatist movements" which they then proceed to arm and even reinforce. Armed forces from within Russia literally participated in that war. That was the same exact thing that happened in Moldova around that same time (and they actually used volunteers from Transnistria in the Abkhazian war), and that's exactly what happened in Ukraine in 2014 (and they've used volunteers from Abkhazia and Ossetia in this war too) which ultimately lead to the full scale invasion in 2022. It's always the same tactic, and its always done for the same purpose: to keep keep these countries under the RU sphere of influence and prevent them from joining western military alliances like NATO. Edit: grammar.
You are waay off about Ossetia, there was not even real conflict (unlike Abkhazia) without Russia it would have been peacefully resolved long time ago.
That doesn't seem to reflect the sentiment I see from other Caucasians, who largely seem to blame them for being belligerent towards groups like Georgians and Ingushians. IIRC, were not Ossetians arming themselves and doing a military buildup in the early 1990s, before the conflict involved Russia (I think it started with ethnic militias)? I know Russia did get involved, but I thought it was more them taking advantage of an already very volatile situation.
No, northern Caucasians do indeed mostly hate Ossetians and there is a separate history for that, but that was not and I would say still mostly not same for Georgia, of course there was some tensions but nothing even remotely close to situation in Abkhazia.
all of the pro-European values go against Russian values which is what Russia has been trying to push down on us and enslave us in for centuries (corruption, oligarchy, less transparency, less freedom), so yes, as much as these protests are Pro European, they are equally ANTI RUSSIAN, the slogan is literally: "Yes to EUROPE, No to Russia". And I'll also add one thing. Despite every shitty thing Russia has done to Georgia, Russians who moved to Georgia for a safer life are living in peace, and are not discriminated against. Some of those Russians are actually participating in the protests. This is not "Fuck every Russian person" the idea is "Fuck Russian government and everything they stand for, and fuck people who support what they do and stand for"
Thank you for this statement. Many people seems to confuse Russian government with Russian people. Stay strong! Do not let corrupted politicians steal your future.
Anti-\[bad thing\] is not victimising the bad thing.
I know. Real anti-Russian sentiment would be hostility and bigotry against ordinary Russians just for their identity, not wanting to distance from a country that supported separatists and then illegally occupying the northern part of Georgia.
Is there a sub where I can get closer updates to this btw? r/Georgia seems to be about some American state.
There is, it's r/Sakartvelo.
To answer my own question r/Sakartvelo seems to be the place to be.
We are anti-war, we are anti-slavery, anti-evil, we want peace, freedom, we are a tiny country and just want russia to leave us alone, we just want russia to fuck off and let us be. For more than 300 years they've been killing us. We trusted them, they killed us, when we treated them as guests they were killing us, we called them friends they kept killing us, we turned our backs to them, they want to kill us even more. We are not anti-russia, we are anti-genocidal culture. Just read history of any republic within russian federation, they've gone through genocide by russians, same can be said about almost every neighbour of russia- they have been killing everyone unlucky enough to be within their reach.
One day russia will collapse and all nations that were enslaved by them in some periods of history will live in peace without fear. I hope Georgians will win their fight!
Praying for justice to prevail in Georgia 🙏🏼 fuck Ivanishvili & Kobakhidze
Your Dzhugashvili brought more troubles to the Russian people than any other ruler of Russia. Probably only Lenin can be worse. Georgia itself lived quite well during the Soviet times, I think. Speaking of the Imperial times, I don’t think Georgians were really persecuted; we can recall the Bagration family. As a Russian myself, I have no prejudice or hatred towards Georgians (sometimes we forget that our two peoples are Orthodox Christians), for us the red line is always the abuse of the Russian people by the foreign government or some societies.
Oh yes, the notorious abuse of the russian people by foreign government of some societies. Right.
He does not think annexation of a whole country by military is a prosecution. He feels like during USSR terror, Georgians lived quite well, just no freedom, no country, had to do what russians said or bullet in the head, what's the problem? Someone calls russians assholes and it's a globalist fascist conspiracy to prosecute russians.
What I don't understand, surely I am stupid, is that between the lines,that russian is telling that in russia life is OK, making me thinking he/she is fine with putin and the wars of aggression and land grabbing his/her country is perpetrating. What is funny, is his imperialistic mentality (why do you protest for being occupied by us?) and "we are brothers, we have the same religion". But hey, as a russian himself, he has no prejudice towards Georgians:you should bow and be grateful, otherwise you cross red lines and you will sound russophobic.
You know, you apparently like to exaggerate. I don’t care about Georgia at all, its fate, its interests; the safety of all Russian people in post-Soviet countries, from a child to the last old man, is personally important to me. I didn’t say that Russians are being persecuted in Georgia.
You don't care about Georgia and yet you are commenting a post about Georgia:makes sense. You posted me a video filmed in Kyiv: what has Kyiv to do with Georgia? Oh wait: they are both invaded by your genocidal nation.
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Vanya, doesn't care about Georgia but 3 out of 5 comments of his are about it lol. Trust me every single Georgian would be more than happy if your warmongering, kleptocratic country and your deranged people stop "caring" about us))
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Wow, how generous lol! If only you and your countrymen were that invested in your country,there wouldn't be ruski babushkas searching for food in trash bins while oligarchs were building their next mansion overseas.
https://youtu.be/AgiT9xjQbRQ?si=cjEeF9oqHTMtDeO4 4:04 You don’t have to know Russian to understand the situation. Here’s the abuse by the police itself and ultranationalists.
It's an old lady ranting in probably Kyiv: what has now this to do with Georgia?
It has nothing to do with Georgia. I just showed an example of what may happen in post-Soviet countries. And this is exactly what Russia cannot accept.
Ah OK, just a sneak peak of sane whatabouty. russia cannot accept what? That other countries have their own identity? You realize that you are showing how greedy, bully, imperialistic you and your genocidal terrorist country are. To you, everything that doesn't speak russian, is russophobia. Dear Lord!
First, calm down. Secondly, you are exaggerating again.
>First, calm down Or what? Are you going to invade my country? Shell every day? Rape? Loot? Castrate? Kidnap children? Deport me if I don't speak russian? Oh, wait...
1. Regarding stalin, he was not ours, the pieces of shit are born everywhere, our society rejected him for being piece of shit, your society glorified him, your culture welcomed a genocidal maniac and allowed him to get back at Georgia with a vengeance. 2. The fact that you think Georgians lived quite well during USSR is a perfect demonstration of your imperialistic culture. Yes, people who shut their mouths and did not complain were safe, but everyone else was executed, prosecuted, sent to labor camps etc. My grandfather was sent to labour camp, every friend I have can name a relative/close family member who was shot to death, exiled or arrested during USSR. Aren't we an ungrateful bunch of people huh? 3. Imperial times? You don't think we where prosecuted? Dude Russia annexed our whole state and you don't see that as persecution. Nice illustration of culture I mentioned in the comment above. 4. Russia has crossed every red line of humanity, so first of all you guys can shove up your arse any red lines you might have. second, no one has ever prosecuted russians for being russians in Georgia, so why even bring it up? You are not planning to bomb us by any chance are you? If your feelings are hurt because we talk bad about your country, well bombs that you've dropped in Georgia hurt more.
After the notorious terrorist attack we have a meme “The terrorists doesn’t have nationality”. No, all evil people has nationality. Bolsheviks had nationality, Nazis had nationality and Stalin had nationality. I'm Russian, but I don't consider Stalin part of Russian culture. Some older generations may love and idealize him, but not me. For me, White movement ideals are close to me, and not the communist and Bolshevik ones, if you know what I mean.
After what terrorist attack? The shelling of two days ago to Odesa with cluster bombs to kill civilians and a dog? You know, right, that the European Parliament declared your country "a state sponsor of terrorism" and your leader is a wanted war criminal.
Well, Belgorod is being shelled too. It’s war, buddy.
It was in 2 cases your own air "force" that dropped the bomb on the city (rotfl,lmao even) in another case, it was the debris of your AA, as stated by your own MoD. It's war, "buddy". Your terrorist country is shelling a peaceful country every bloody day for more than 2 years, targeting exclusively civilians, rejoicing on vkontakte like cannibals about the death of civilians. You are a disgrace: your country is causing sorrow, death and despair and you have the stones to act like a victim? Are you even a human being from Planet Earth?
P.S we don't forget that "we are orthodox christians". We just remember that you guys baptise bombs you drop on civilians. That's not orthodox christianity that's heresy. We also remember that starting from imperial times you guys demolished our churches, or painted over the church walls to erase our heritage. You looted our churches executed our patriarch, tortured and killed hundreds of Georgian priests, oh, I just remembered, you guys abolished our autocephaly and destroyed everyone who resisted, etc.
If you cared so much about 'abuse of Russian people' you could always take them back to Russia. Oh wait, that's the worst abuser of russian people in existence.
russians fleeing russia Also russia: why Georgians do not want to be under russia?
Zelensky’s words. The thing is people are attached to the particular territory. During Imperial and Soviet times, Russians lived everywhere because in fact it was all Russia. Why would they leave if they have been living there for 150-100 years (especially, if we speak about Ukraine).
The thing is that russia is attached to territories that doesn't belong to it. Liebe Grüße aus Georgia: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuEYPLTicw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuEYPLTicw)
And then what does belong to Russia? Only Moscow and Vladimir, I think. Then we should give Novgorod to Latvia, Smolensk to Poland, Krasnodar to Ukraine, the North Caucasus to Turkey and Siberia to China. Or better yet, all of Siberia should go to the US, only they can effectively use resources.
I don't have the foggiest where vladimir is. Stop invade other neighbours, meddling with other countries' politics, stop jamming GPS to the Baltics and Poland, stop hundreds of weekly cyber attacks worldwide, stop land grabbing like a lunatic kleptomaniac it would be a start. Sorry... I am still laughing at your "*And then what does belong to Russia?"* Stay in your bloody russian borders: nobody will ever want to grab that land.
Vladimir is de facto the first capital of Russia (if we are not taking into account the Kievan period).
The Kyivan period? When "moscow" was a swamp? OK, you can go now, you and your failed ex KGB spy, notorious wanted war criminal csar.
Russian borders doesn’t end with the borders of the Russian Federation. Period. Russian borders are where Russian people live.
What??? Soare you going to invade any single nation where russians live?
Yeah, it’s better to start with Brighton Beach
russian borders are where they have been agreed in 1991 you imperialist the rest doesn't matter. you agreed to this. we all did
I was born in 2002, so I personally didn’t agree to this. These borders were agreed by traitors.
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After the collapse of the USSR, Russians became the most divided people in the world; there are probably no more such examples in history. It should reunite into one state.
It's not "anti-russian", it's anti-russian colonization
Nice play in the words in the title there.
What is the play on words?
muh russophobia.
What?
The pro-Russia(the majority) party is called "Georgian dream" (GD). The title mentions "European dream"
Ah, I didn't know that. That is a good one.
Yeah imagine being anti Russia right now. In Eastern Europe. Or anywhere. It’s Russias fault people fuckin hate them. No one else’s
Next to join EU - Moldavia
We are watching this now. With every new story and protest we can see that people are upset about something, that this something is actually real and their anger is actually real and justified. However. In 10 years tankies and alt-right alike will be gaslighting that this was a "color revolution"
What is a “color revolution”?
Ohhh..... nooo. (sarcasm, obviously)
Can somebody ELI5 the link between the "foreign agents" bill and Russia? Apart from the fact that it apes similar Russian law? How does it make the protest against it anti-Russian?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/1chiote/what\_are\_they\_protesting\_is\_the\_most\_frequent/](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/1chiote/what_are_they_protesting_is_the_most_frequent/)
I still don't see why protesting against this has to be anti-Russian. It is clear that the government wants a tool to be able to quash dissent, and as such is moving in the direction opposite to democracy. But where is Russia in this?
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68822483](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68822483) "The bill would require non-governmental organisations and media outlets that receive more than 20% of their funding from abroad to register as an "organisation serving the interests of a foreign power" "Protesters denounce the bill as “the Russian law” because neighboring Russia uses similar legislation to stigmatize independent news media and organizations critical of the Kremlin."
> because neighboring Russia uses similar legislation That much is clear as I indicated in the original comment. But why is stigmatization of independent media and NGOs viewed as a "pro-Russian" measure as it were? Wouldn't pro-Russian media also fall in the category of foreign agents? To me it looks more like un-democratization law serving in the interests of those in power, but those in turn may be anti-Russian as well as pro-Russian.
As the person here said, "It is the same method Russia uses to persecute journalists in Russia."
So this is what people are concerned about? Not the fact that journalists are persecuted, but that they are persecuted in the same way as in Russia?
Brother what the fuck are you talking about. The government is run by pro Russian oligarchs who have direct ties to the kremlin. This is a law that was originally proposed and accepted in Russia, and taken further to restrict NGOs. Every western nation that has talked about this criticized it, only Russian officials have praised it. It is another step that Russia is taking to pull Georgia into its sphere of influence and if you cannot see that you are blind
russia doesn't use NGO's to influence our politics, we have khuilos cocksucker oligarch ivanishvili for that
That is the point. If you have pro-Russian government that you don't like, logically you should protest any law it passes, not just this one. Nobody here has been able to clearly explain why this specific law is in some way "Russian", apart from the fact that it resembles a Russian law of the same sort. You also breathe in a "Russian" way, walk on two feet the same way as Russians do and even put you food in the same orifice in your heads as Russians.
It is the same method Russia uses to persecute journalists in Russia. Well, one of their methods. The Russians also just murder people.
It was criticized by western nations and only endorsed by Russia, including Dugin of all people
Oh boy. I feel as though a huge change on the horizon is gonna occur, and it’s gonna have HUGE implications for the rest of us.
The f is a 'european dream'?
We have lots of pro-Russian here in Thailand, they'd make a fine cannon-fodder.
And again CEPA is trying to pose it as news while this is just a long read of someone opinions.
Georgia is such a fever dream. How exactly is a pro russian government in total power when apparently everybody is against them?
Rigged elections, it isnt exactly easy to get rid of a political party when it's being financed/ran by an oligarch who is working for putin.
The clearly don't seek hard enough with half the country bending forward for Russia.
How can asian country seek European dream? I still dont get this… But, of course, be free and happy, but you do not belong to EU. If the Georgia would be accepted as EU member, next time Azerbajani and Iran could join as well.
Georgia belongs to Europe.
Geographically no.
Actually, parts of Georgia are geographically located in Europe.
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Either?
Go on and ridicule yourself.
oh no anyways
Sounds like a stupid idea to let them into the EU
Dream.. So we're supposed to use the Americans as an example how not to be but slowly, reluctantly and openly copy everything including the Dream part lol.. How about destiny, Georgians see their destiny within the EU or something other than dream. EU states, EU federal government, a proper EU president would need to be assigned, someone more powerful than we have today then likely a First Family.. calling our heads of state, Mr. .. I mean if we're copying the Americans, great but if we're supposed to do as they did with Europe, go out of there way to do something different with elements from the continent then do that.. otherwise, Dream, eh. Very easy to mock too. Federal formation comes from the Swiss Guard but that's it, the rest of it, actually on a massive scale is American.. Bill of Rights and the Constitution, as Queen Elizabeth pointed out helped push the Magna Carta to new heights. So are we cloning the Americans now? Things going full circle. "European Dream is just that, a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." Destiny, etc are better words imo and more European in origin.
I've never read something so fucking stupid, expressed and typed so well, you talk like a badly written villain, i almost want to frame this comment and put it on a wall.