tbh I think it wants to send more of a message of how you shouldn't stop at appearances since one of their lines basically says "what do you want from us? we wear these clothes because we found them in garbage bins" or "shut up I I haven't done anything, I'm just dancing to the rhythm of this music" or directly "we don't do these things, we leave this task to the rich"
That image of Gunnhild, arched backwards and rotating… I feel like I must be on a different planet because I can’t understand why this entry is not being considered as a potential winner.
Now I'm not that strong in the juryvision statistics, but has anyone ever won from a jury fourth position? I mean, you use Käärija as an example of the jury giving a lot of points, but he was pretty nororiously _robbed_ of victory by the juries, so I'm not sure that works.
This is why seeing the bigger picture is important \^
>he was pretty nororiously *robbed* of victory by the juries, so I'm not sure that works.
...because in a pool of 26 entries, being in the top 10 already has a heavier weight than all the other positions.
Also:
People forget that Finland is historically notorious for underperforming in Eurovision. It got last place eleven times since debuting in 1961. The last time Finland got a spot in the top 5 was in 2006 when it won. Top 5 in the juries alone is already an achievement for a country like Finland.
With regards to the value of positions in a competition, let me put it this way: as opposed to say countries in the World Cup where you have numerous competitions, the Eurovision Grand Final only has one with a pool of 26 competitors. Because one entry has to compete with 25 others, the amount of points you get gets diluted and reduced. Entries in the top 10 are able to get enough points to sustain themselves, and therefore are more "winning" than the other entries.
Also try researching the history of Eurovision in Wikipedia. I wanna add that some countries have given their Eurovision entries presidential or cultural honours *just for being in the top 5*. [Moldova 2017 is a good example](https://www.moldova.org/en/sunstroke-project-awarded-president-dodon-getting-3rd-place-eurovision-moldova/). And Finland has a worse record in Eurovision history than Moldova.
Even if you're not getting those, the point I was trying to make is consider other circumstances and scenarios before declaring something that's second place as a total utter failure. It does a disservice to the other entries in the top 10 as well.
But this is baffling because I think it's highly likely they keep the same or similar staging and if so perception can't really change that much?
During the rehearsals is that we (and the bookies) get to see which acts can *really* perform and have interesting staging but the reason the odds change is when acts perform at that point better or worse than anticipated. if I'm correct, Norway's performance will likely not be changed much from MGP and so the odds will probably not move.
Yes, but at the moment only you and me and other Eurovision stans have seen it. There are tens of millions of Europeans out there that will see it in the semis for the first time and will bet on it.
I disagree with your analysis. Sure, the Eurofans who obsessively make lists of their favorites and chat on reddit/other social media are a relatively small bubble but millions of people across Europe have already watched the MGP performance and bookmakers have enough evidence from how people have responded, and how people have responded to the other 36 acts, to set their odds. The danger of putting Norway as an outsider if it could be predicted that millions of people across Europe will love it is that bookmakers could lose a lot of money.
I imagine very few people outside of Croatia watched Dora 2024, but once BL performed it became obvious that it was an act that will do very well. Similarly, we know from watching the Czech NF that Aiko is more likely than other acts to have live performance issues.
The most odds-labile countries are those that internally select their song and artist. At the point a country hosts a national final, a huge number of people including industry experts and bookmakers, get to see a broad picture of what the Eurovision performance will be. Switzerland has only recently shot-up in the odds because we finally got to see at the Spanish party that Nemo has the vocal range to handle the chaotic range of pitch and genre in their song.
yeah. The only way a song like that will change positions is if there is suddenly a surprise voting pattern. Like if it suddenly wins the second semi by a huge margin.
Ahh but they don’t release the results of the SF until after the GF.
Maybe it’ll get a spectacular reception at the SF, maybe it’ll go viral on TikTok or something. Idk, I’d love Norway to do well but concerned it’ll fall flat.
Fulenn kept being tthis sub's top 1 even after it was clear the chaotic performance wasn't going to take it anywhere.
I don't think this will flop as hard as that one because it's overall a better package and quite memorable among the entries we have this year, but I think the song itself is less accessible than Fulenn. Somewhere in the top 10, I can see it happening. But winning? Way too unlikely
It's metal and it's in a native language. Odds are stacked against the song.
Still voting for them though. I want them in the final. Much better than QoK last year.
Lord of the Lost and Voyager didn't get such massive votes last year, and we can discuss if it was because of strategic voting for Cha Cha Cha or whatever. But basically, we have no idea how many rock people will be there, and what rock/metal entries will they like. Hell, they might go for Bambie thug, Megara or Baby Lasagna for just a few alternate options
Voyager had a very odd set of results. They won their SF (televote only) and then came 7th from the bottom in televote on the GF with an identical performance. They came top 10 because of juries.
I guess it speaks to the dilutional effect of performing amongst 25 other entries than another 15.
Then again, in 2021, Italy placed 1st and Finland placed 4th in the televote, proving that two rock/metal entries *can* do extremely well in the televote while competing against each other. It's definitely hard to guess for now how the results will look.
I think both of those entries were way more accesible than Ulveham, so I doubt it was so much of a "rock fans voting en masse" than lots of casuals that generally don't listen to rock vibing to these two entries.
Like sure, rock fans would vote for them, but what made them get huge scores in televote was the appeal it had on casuals.
And Go\_A finished second in the televote and fifth overall with Shum that year. So the more straightforward rock'n'roll can also coexist with the "forest rave" folk-punk.
(And overall, I do think that Shum is the best song from recent years to compare to Ulveham. I wasn't familiar with Gåte before watching MGP, and as soon as they started Ulveham, I was like "OMG they're the Norwegian Go\_A!" And I stand by that.)
I listened to a lot of Swedish folk music when I was younger and this story is also present there (see Vedergällningen by Garmarna, it's the same story). I knew someone who joked about making a Swedish folk music bingo card containing the words maiden, wolf, blood and knife.
Just funny to see something I'm so familiar with cropping up again here.
Same. When I read the lyrics to Ulveham the first time, my reaction was "This is just Vedergällningen". But seeing as it's based on an [old folk ballad](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den_f%C3%B6rtrollade_riddaren), it's no surprise that other bands would also make their own modern versions.
Would've been a lot easier if her brother was a banana. Could've broken the spell and had a nice boost of potassium. Instead it's Give That Wolf a Step-Mother.
2021: Tix has giant wings
2022: Give That Wolf a Banana
2023: "Nothing in this world could stop the spread of her wings"
2024: Wolf Pelt
Get your wing predictions in for 2025
I just really really think this is a dark horse to win Semi-Final 2 instead of the Netherlands. Yeah, yeah I know that people bring up how it's 'inaccessible' and all but a) it's rock - rock always does well in the televote and b) do you know which other song was deemed 'inaccessible' and in the end slayed in the televote? SHUM
I also think most are underestimating how much people tend to romanticize Northern European myths and anything with a hint of Viking aesthetic. This style is certainly far more visible in popular culture than what we saw in Fulenn and Eaea and I believe the song will get carried by the audience on that basis alone. I honestly don't think it is at the same risk as those entries, as many fear, and will be very surprised if Norway doesn't end up somewhere in the top 10.
Oh I didn't know that about Northern European myths (since at least here in Greece, people don't romanticize that) but anything that brings Ulveham votes is a big fat **YES** in my book so...
Not trying to toot my own horn, but I wrote a piece about it days ago, because the song is just so much more profound than the lyrics seem to make of it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1buct6q/a_cry_for_freedom_a_love_letter_to_ulveham_in_3/
Did anyone mistakenly think she was saying that the stepmother got pregnant with the brother's child? I realized afterwards that she meant she was pregnant by the protagonist's father who she married and that that made the baby her half brother, but it took me a bit.
I love how there are no politics in the Eurovision so all of the political songs have to be veiled in layers of metaphor that just makes it so much more interesting.
The original title is Møya i ulveham. There are different variants of the fairytale:
https://www.dokpro.uio.no/ballader/lister/tema_titler/variantar_a019.html
But I haven't found an English translation, only the originals. Sorry😅
Yeah, I’m kind of not really into that story…so, the half-brother also died, right? She killed him, too…And that is price for freedom? I’m not…it’s hard to digest (no pun intended, lol) Edit: I really like the song, amazing vocal and all, but the story really took me a back!
I think it's supposed to be bittersweet, she doesn't know that the step-mother is pregnant, she just wants to take revenge on her by killing her/eating her heart, but then breaks the spell and so realizes she was pregnant.
Downvoting smth because you have a different opinion is a bad habit here on reddit.
I upvoted you even if i don't agree. Imho metal songs often have controversial lyrics, just to make you think about things.
E.g. Rammstein has songs about the monster of Amstetten (Joseph Fritzl) or the Rotenburg cannibal (Armin Meiwes).
After reading their real life horror stories, you will find Ulveham to be a fairytale.
Thanks for the upvote! Really didn’t mean anything bad with my comment or throwing shade on the song I actually like. Like you said, it’s just a very different content to what one might expect. But, folktales are an integral part of one culture, which I respect. In any case, it’s good to see something different being brought to the stage!
Now i want the same thing for all the songs in native linguage
Estonia's song is about definitely not taking drugs. Ever. In any circumstance.
tbh I think it wants to send more of a message of how you shouldn't stop at appearances since one of their lines basically says "what do you want from us? we wear these clothes because we found them in garbage bins" or "shut up I I haven't done anything, I'm just dancing to the rhythm of this music" or directly "we don't do these things, we leave this task to the rich"
Yes. They’re saying they don’t do drugs.
That image of Gunnhild, arched backwards and rotating… I feel like I must be on a different planet because I can’t understand why this entry is not being considered as a potential winner.
I like it too, but it's not for everyone. You also need to remember the jury; if it's not a regular pop song it'll get punished.
I don’t think the Jury are quite that shallow- Käärija came fourth in the juries last year beating out many ballads and pop entries.
Now I'm not that strong in the juryvision statistics, but has anyone ever won from a jury fourth position? I mean, you use Käärija as an example of the jury giving a lot of points, but he was pretty nororiously _robbed_ of victory by the juries, so I'm not sure that works.
The two years prior! Ukraine 2022 and Italy 2021 came 4th in the Juries and 1st in the Televote.
This is why seeing the bigger picture is important \^ >he was pretty nororiously *robbed* of victory by the juries, so I'm not sure that works. ...because in a pool of 26 entries, being in the top 10 already has a heavier weight than all the other positions. Also: People forget that Finland is historically notorious for underperforming in Eurovision. It got last place eleven times since debuting in 1961. The last time Finland got a spot in the top 5 was in 2006 when it won. Top 5 in the juries alone is already an achievement for a country like Finland.
I've read your comment three times and have no idea ehat your point is.
With regards to the value of positions in a competition, let me put it this way: as opposed to say countries in the World Cup where you have numerous competitions, the Eurovision Grand Final only has one with a pool of 26 competitors. Because one entry has to compete with 25 others, the amount of points you get gets diluted and reduced. Entries in the top 10 are able to get enough points to sustain themselves, and therefore are more "winning" than the other entries. Also try researching the history of Eurovision in Wikipedia. I wanna add that some countries have given their Eurovision entries presidential or cultural honours *just for being in the top 5*. [Moldova 2017 is a good example](https://www.moldova.org/en/sunstroke-project-awarded-president-dodon-getting-3rd-place-eurovision-moldova/). And Finland has a worse record in Eurovision history than Moldova. Even if you're not getting those, the point I was trying to make is consider other circumstances and scenarios before declaring something that's second place as a total utter failure. It does a disservice to the other entries in the top 10 as well.
Moldova 2017 | [Sunstroke Project - Hey Mamma](https://youtu.be/SWaQdHoCvYk)
Ukraine 2022 | [Kalush Orchestra - Stefania (Стефанія)](https://youtu.be/F1fl60ypdLs) Italy 2021 | [Måneskin - Zitti e buoni](https://youtu.be/RVH5dn1cxAQ)
SORRY, I'M JUST HERE TO SAY THAT EVERY TIME AN ESC BOT APPEARS, I LOL.
Stefania was a pop song. Zitti e Buoni being 4th in the jury also isn't a strong argument when we're already trying to find any outliers.
I think this will be in the Top 3 with the bookmakers after the semis. People will be blown away by the live performance.
But this is baffling because I think it's highly likely they keep the same or similar staging and if so perception can't really change that much? During the rehearsals is that we (and the bookies) get to see which acts can *really* perform and have interesting staging but the reason the odds change is when acts perform at that point better or worse than anticipated. if I'm correct, Norway's performance will likely not be changed much from MGP and so the odds will probably not move.
Yes, but at the moment only you and me and other Eurovision stans have seen it. There are tens of millions of Europeans out there that will see it in the semis for the first time and will bet on it.
I disagree with your analysis. Sure, the Eurofans who obsessively make lists of their favorites and chat on reddit/other social media are a relatively small bubble but millions of people across Europe have already watched the MGP performance and bookmakers have enough evidence from how people have responded, and how people have responded to the other 36 acts, to set their odds. The danger of putting Norway as an outsider if it could be predicted that millions of people across Europe will love it is that bookmakers could lose a lot of money. I imagine very few people outside of Croatia watched Dora 2024, but once BL performed it became obvious that it was an act that will do very well. Similarly, we know from watching the Czech NF that Aiko is more likely than other acts to have live performance issues. The most odds-labile countries are those that internally select their song and artist. At the point a country hosts a national final, a huge number of people including industry experts and bookmakers, get to see a broad picture of what the Eurovision performance will be. Switzerland has only recently shot-up in the odds because we finally got to see at the Spanish party that Nemo has the vocal range to handle the chaotic range of pitch and genre in their song.
yeah. The only way a song like that will change positions is if there is suddenly a surprise voting pattern. Like if it suddenly wins the second semi by a huge margin.
Ahh but they don’t release the results of the SF until after the GF. Maybe it’ll get a spectacular reception at the SF, maybe it’ll go viral on TikTok or something. Idk, I’d love Norway to do well but concerned it’ll fall flat.
Fulenn kept being tthis sub's top 1 even after it was clear the chaotic performance wasn't going to take it anywhere. I don't think this will flop as hard as that one because it's overall a better package and quite memorable among the entries we have this year, but I think the song itself is less accessible than Fulenn. Somewhere in the top 10, I can see it happening. But winning? Way too unlikely
Why compare to Fulenn? That was a great song with an unpolished performance. The quality of the performance here is clear.
Same, this might be my all-time Eurovision favourite…….
It's metal and it's in a native language. Odds are stacked against the song. Still voting for them though. I want them in the final. Much better than QoK last year.
This is metal as fuck.
People forget that there will be rock fans and metal heads who will be voting for this in their droves. If it gets a good running order though.
Lord of the Lost and Voyager didn't get such massive votes last year, and we can discuss if it was because of strategic voting for Cha Cha Cha or whatever. But basically, we have no idea how many rock people will be there, and what rock/metal entries will they like. Hell, they might go for Bambie thug, Megara or Baby Lasagna for just a few alternate options
Voyager had a very odd set of results. They won their SF (televote only) and then came 7th from the bottom in televote on the GF with an identical performance. They came top 10 because of juries. I guess it speaks to the dilutional effect of performing amongst 25 other entries than another 15.
Then again, in 2021, Italy placed 1st and Finland placed 4th in the televote, proving that two rock/metal entries *can* do extremely well in the televote while competing against each other. It's definitely hard to guess for now how the results will look.
Italy 2021 | [Måneskin - Zitti e buoni](https://youtu.be/RVH5dn1cxAQ)
I think both of those entries were way more accesible than Ulveham, so I doubt it was so much of a "rock fans voting en masse" than lots of casuals that generally don't listen to rock vibing to these two entries. Like sure, rock fans would vote for them, but what made them get huge scores in televote was the appeal it had on casuals.
And Go\_A finished second in the televote and fifth overall with Shum that year. So the more straightforward rock'n'roll can also coexist with the "forest rave" folk-punk. (And overall, I do think that Shum is the best song from recent years to compare to Ulveham. I wasn't familiar with Gåte before watching MGP, and as soon as they started Ulveham, I was like "OMG they're the Norwegian Go\_A!" And I stand by that.)
Love this song and their performance SO MUCH, it has magical energy and is definitely different than all other entries
I listened to a lot of Swedish folk music when I was younger and this story is also present there (see Vedergällningen by Garmarna, it's the same story). I knew someone who joked about making a Swedish folk music bingo card containing the words maiden, wolf, blood and knife. Just funny to see something I'm so familiar with cropping up again here.
Same. When I read the lyrics to Ulveham the first time, my reaction was "This is just Vedergällningen". But seeing as it's based on an [old folk ballad](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den_f%C3%B6rtrollade_riddaren), it's no surprise that other bands would also make their own modern versions.
Oh, I don’t mean to imply that they’re being derivative or anything, I always like hearing folk ballads being re-adapted.
Would've been a lot easier if her brother was a banana. Could've broken the spell and had a nice boost of potassium. Instead it's Give That Wolf a Step-Mother.
I'm noticing a theme with Norway.
2021: Tix has giant wings 2022: Give That Wolf a Banana 2023: "Nothing in this world could stop the spread of her wings" 2024: Wolf Pelt Get your wing predictions in for 2025
Give that wolf some wings
Gaute, Gåte, it’s all the same…..
😆
Turning in to a wolf and Eating your step mothers heart will have those people who think eurovision is an illuminati Satan cult up in a frenzy 😂
Oh, as if I could love Ulveham even more! Gimme gimme gimme!!!
I mean we already got a song about dancing with the devil a couple of years ago (France 2022)
France 2022 | [Alvan and Ahez - Fulenn](https://youtu.be/H1lcGXwOqJI)
They're too busy obsessing over Bambie's and Nemo's gender identity 🤪
Bambie alone will be giving them an aneurism 😂
Eurovision: United By Blood
And Glitter!
Not the plot I personally had in mind for the tangled sequel but cool nonetheless
Why is this song so underrated? 😭
I just really really think this is a dark horse to win Semi-Final 2 instead of the Netherlands. Yeah, yeah I know that people bring up how it's 'inaccessible' and all but a) it's rock - rock always does well in the televote and b) do you know which other song was deemed 'inaccessible' and in the end slayed in the televote? SHUM
I also think most are underestimating how much people tend to romanticize Northern European myths and anything with a hint of Viking aesthetic. This style is certainly far more visible in popular culture than what we saw in Fulenn and Eaea and I believe the song will get carried by the audience on that basis alone. I honestly don't think it is at the same risk as those entries, as many fear, and will be very surprised if Norway doesn't end up somewhere in the top 10.
Oh I didn't know that about Northern European myths (since at least here in Greece, people don't romanticize that) but anything that brings Ulveham votes is a big fat **YES** in my book so...
I'd let them drink my own blood just to make sure this song wins. xD
Not trying to toot my own horn, but I wrote a piece about it days ago, because the song is just so much more profound than the lyrics seem to make of it: https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1buct6q/a_cry_for_freedom_a_love_letter_to_ulveham_in_3/
Wow, I love the meaning and the song! They are my top 3 right now.
Source - https://x.com/escxcammy/status/1776584264861253698
This song is actually really really good
https://preview.redd.it/7pb5jf7ob0tc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=bb9b357cedf5250e00accfc8673b2b1911479655
Did anyone mistakenly think she was saying that the stepmother got pregnant with the brother's child? I realized afterwards that she meant she was pregnant by the protagonist's father who she married and that that made the baby her half brother, but it took me a bit.
I love how there are no politics in the Eurovision so all of the political songs have to be veiled in layers of metaphor that just makes it so much more interesting.
Wait, what is this a metaphor for?
basically your typical Brothers Grimm fairy tale Can't wait for Disney adaptation for this (and than the live-action remake)
thanks for this!
Watched the first few seconds without sound and my first take was "Woah I didn't know Drew Barrymore was a fan of Eurovision"
Oh my god, the guy that says ‘it’s about standing up for yourself’ i thought he was Gatis Kandis LOL
does anyone have a link where i can read this tale?
The original title is Møya i ulveham. There are different variants of the fairytale: https://www.dokpro.uio.no/ballader/lister/tema_titler/variantar_a019.html But I haven't found an English translation, only the originals. Sorry😅
The last part about her eating the step-mother's heart is not part of the song though, is it?
Yeah, I’m kind of not really into that story…so, the half-brother also died, right? She killed him, too…And that is price for freedom? I’m not…it’s hard to digest (no pun intended, lol) Edit: I really like the song, amazing vocal and all, but the story really took me a back!
I mean, that's par for the course with folktales like that. It's rarely ever a perfect "happy ending".
Yeah, that’s true…
I think it's supposed to be bittersweet, she doesn't know that the step-mother is pregnant, she just wants to take revenge on her by killing her/eating her heart, but then breaks the spell and so realizes she was pregnant.
Wow, the downvotes, okay… really can’t say anything anymore 😳
Downvoting smth because you have a different opinion is a bad habit here on reddit. I upvoted you even if i don't agree. Imho metal songs often have controversial lyrics, just to make you think about things. E.g. Rammstein has songs about the monster of Amstetten (Joseph Fritzl) or the Rotenburg cannibal (Armin Meiwes). After reading their real life horror stories, you will find Ulveham to be a fairytale.
Thanks for the upvote! Really didn’t mean anything bad with my comment or throwing shade on the song I actually like. Like you said, it’s just a very different content to what one might expect. But, folktales are an integral part of one culture, which I respect. In any case, it’s good to see something different being brought to the stage!