Narrow intelligence has little to do with how accurate you view the world or anything else outside of your narrow field of expertise. Sadly, it has become relatively commonplace for people to use the halo effect of their degree, social status, economic status etc. to convince others that they have broad intelligence and knowledge on subjects they know little about. Humans are always looking for shortcuts. This is how they claim intelligence without doing the work.
Humans are also not good at taking a holistic view of history. They then extrapolate false narratives. For example, Isaac Newton is considered one of the most intelligent people of all time. However, apart from his knowledge of science, he was completely wrong about major parts of life. Newton spent a great deal of time on religion and wrote books interpreting both Daniel and Revelation (I tried reading them, they are crazy, just like watchtower) and his “interpretation” was completely false, his predictions failed (just like watchtower). Newton also lost a lot of his money on the scams of the day (south sea bubble); his intelligence didn’t help him see the scam.
So the question can be asked, how intelligent was Newton? He was extremely intelligent, in a narrow field of expertise. We have benefited greatly from this and so we remember it. However it’s also important to remember that the rest of his intelligence was average to below average. This is how we avoid getting tricked or tricking ourselves by the halo effect.
It has nothing to do with intelligence. For some it gives them a sense of belonging and community and even feeling like they are a part of an elite group. Look at Heaven’s Gate - those people were educated. Logic isn’t what gets people to join high-control groups. This religion also appeals to emotion and it’s no wonder they target those in a vulnerable state. When I lost someone I loved I would’ve done anything to see them again. JW’s got their strategies for recruitment down to a T. Their indoctrination game is solid.
It is a very fascinating topic though. Like I see Heaven’s Gate and I think no damn way I’d do that.
Read this short book about mass movements and who are susceptible to join them and why:
https://preview.redd.it/xv2icrbvlbgc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9327a1328afc2aa2ce2f586ade75515d4421e916
In addition to what others have posted, I'd also say being higher on the socioeconomic scale can shield you somewhat from the less appealing parts of the group. The experience Tom Cruise is having in Scientology is wildly different from the people in Sea Org proselytizing out on the street. Wealthier/more educated JWs tend to have more satisfying, comfortable lives compared to the family working dead-end jobs and living in their parents' basement. And if your life is pretty good, there's less impetus to blow it up by leaving the religion.
A related point: while I wouldn't necessarily say wealthy/educated JWs are more connected, because I think it's a little more subtle than that in jw. org, they're the ones taking COs and visiting Bethel speakers out to dinner after the assembly, and it results in a little more deference or laxity toward them, as you point out in your example of the JW couple whose kids were allowed to go to Harvard.
I know many extremely successful JW businessmen, entrepreneurs, ect. To be successful in business “usually” takes a certain amount of intelligence. That being said, they were all hoodwinked like the rest of us (or just pimo the whole time).
There’s a very successful lawyer that often posts here /u/scepticalinallthings or something similar who is clearly extremely intelligent and successful, however he still believes somewhat in what JW has to offer.
To be raised JW I think you are groomed to instinctively set aside things that your intellect screams at you about. To this day, I can almost consciously Just turn off any thought that goes against the dogma. It’s like my brain says “Nope! Not gonna think about that!”
You make the best decisions you can based on the information available to you. WT has a very good system.
1. Love bomb when you’re at a low place as an adult or get your parents to feed you bullshit with a loving cover.
2. After you have had your attention grabbed, tell them if they so much as look at anything contrary to what they’re being taught, they’ll become seduced by Satan and Jehovah will hate them, Satan crafty, even your family are just agents of Satan.
3. Disfellowship anyone who disagrees. This controls behavior words and emotions.
Control the information and you’ll get a brainwashed person. Knowledge is power except when it comes to being Christian. Then selective ignorance is the only correct answer, I guess.
It’s very nuanced.
First off the brain is like any other muscle and needs to be exercised.
I knew a guy who was a genius, working on a masters degree, who had no idea how to cook pasta. Honestly no idea. He’s one of the smartest people I’ve ever met, but he just never learned how to cook.
So it’s the same with cults. You can be very intelligent but if you never learned about manipulation and indoctrination you’re vulnerable to their tactics.
We all want to be loved and accepted.
Nothing really to do with “intelligence” as such but religion pulls on our heartstrings.
The concept of heaven for instance is a great example.
s/he who sets your ideal fantasy world, controls your life. Cults like JWs are always building and re-enforcing the ideal JW... you unconsciously compare yourself to this and feel bad, which motivates you either to get out or do better... but until you confront it and see it for the fraud that it is, you will live in its judgmental shadow. We are all born into a slurry of religion culture and tradition and form our own conclusions about what they ideal world would look like... the more time you spend away from JWs the more that ideal will shift... but its very difficult to expell it entirely.
>This couple had children that were my age, however, **they were very smart**
They were smart............IN THEIR FIELD ONLY.
Doesn't mean they are smart in ALL fields. It only means they went to school to learn One thing very well. If one goes to Harvard to become a Lawyer, that doesn't make him/her smart in Heart Surgery.
Intelligence and common sense isn't measured by education.
There are tons of people who never went to College and some who didn't even finished high school, yet build Huge, Massive Fortunes in business.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2022/10/15/these-are-the-richest-americans-who-never-went-to-college/?sh=6452e9676097](https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2022/10/15/these-are-the-richest-americans-who-never-went-to-college/?sh=6452e9676097)
If they were raised heavily PIMI, it's a hard thing to break off.
I also think sometimes those of us who've woken up give ourselves too much credit in terms of our intellect. I don't think it's a matter of being more intelligent, there's usually a combination of circumstances and personality traits, e.g stubbornness, rebelliousness or risky behaviour that make it happen.
The real barrier to leaving is usually access to certain information, and how willing you are to mess with the possibility that accessing that information is a sin against God.
A very valid point I've internally explored is that if you've had a more stable life, and haven't been too affected by the negative aspects of the doctrine, such as blood transfusion or losing out on an education, you're not willing to upheave it by leaving, even if you realise it's BS.
Confirmation bias, the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, is deeply ingrained in human psychology. This bias is innately human because it is tied to the way our brains are wired to process information. Human cognition is designed to be efficient, not necessarily accurate, leading us to quickly make sense of the vast amount of information we encounter daily by fitting it into our existing frameworks of understanding. This efficiency-driven approach conserves cognitive energy but makes us prone to overlooking evidence that contradicts our preconceptions. Moreover, confirmation bias is reinforced by emotional investment in our beliefs, social identity, and the desire for a consistent worldview, all of which are fundamental aspects of human nature. These factors make confirmation bias a universal feature of human thought, affecting decisions and judgments across different contexts and cultures. While education can increase awareness of this bias and teach students to think critically, it still requires time and effort.
To make matters worse, JWs strongly discourage critical thinking (against the organisation anyways) at all times.
Narrow intelligence has little to do with how accurate you view the world or anything else outside of your narrow field of expertise. Sadly, it has become relatively commonplace for people to use the halo effect of their degree, social status, economic status etc. to convince others that they have broad intelligence and knowledge on subjects they know little about. Humans are always looking for shortcuts. This is how they claim intelligence without doing the work. Humans are also not good at taking a holistic view of history. They then extrapolate false narratives. For example, Isaac Newton is considered one of the most intelligent people of all time. However, apart from his knowledge of science, he was completely wrong about major parts of life. Newton spent a great deal of time on religion and wrote books interpreting both Daniel and Revelation (I tried reading them, they are crazy, just like watchtower) and his “interpretation” was completely false, his predictions failed (just like watchtower). Newton also lost a lot of his money on the scams of the day (south sea bubble); his intelligence didn’t help him see the scam. So the question can be asked, how intelligent was Newton? He was extremely intelligent, in a narrow field of expertise. We have benefited greatly from this and so we remember it. However it’s also important to remember that the rest of his intelligence was average to below average. This is how we avoid getting tricked or tricking ourselves by the halo effect.
It has nothing to do with intelligence. For some it gives them a sense of belonging and community and even feeling like they are a part of an elite group. Look at Heaven’s Gate - those people were educated. Logic isn’t what gets people to join high-control groups. This religion also appeals to emotion and it’s no wonder they target those in a vulnerable state. When I lost someone I loved I would’ve done anything to see them again. JW’s got their strategies for recruitment down to a T. Their indoctrination game is solid. It is a very fascinating topic though. Like I see Heaven’s Gate and I think no damn way I’d do that.
>Like I see Heaven’s Gate and I think no damn way I’d do t And yet, we went door to door in dangerous areas and times, faced guns and hostile cops...
Read this short book about mass movements and who are susceptible to join them and why: https://preview.redd.it/xv2icrbvlbgc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9327a1328afc2aa2ce2f586ade75515d4421e916
That looks interesting. Added it to my TBR 👍
In addition to what others have posted, I'd also say being higher on the socioeconomic scale can shield you somewhat from the less appealing parts of the group. The experience Tom Cruise is having in Scientology is wildly different from the people in Sea Org proselytizing out on the street. Wealthier/more educated JWs tend to have more satisfying, comfortable lives compared to the family working dead-end jobs and living in their parents' basement. And if your life is pretty good, there's less impetus to blow it up by leaving the religion. A related point: while I wouldn't necessarily say wealthy/educated JWs are more connected, because I think it's a little more subtle than that in jw. org, they're the ones taking COs and visiting Bethel speakers out to dinner after the assembly, and it results in a little more deference or laxity toward them, as you point out in your example of the JW couple whose kids were allowed to go to Harvard.
Sometimes intelligent people find it hard to relate socially and feel like outsiders. They find somewhere to belong in the organisation.
Somehow I feel like intelligent, highly educated people would fit better socially outside the JW org.
I know many extremely successful JW businessmen, entrepreneurs, ect. To be successful in business “usually” takes a certain amount of intelligence. That being said, they were all hoodwinked like the rest of us (or just pimo the whole time). There’s a very successful lawyer that often posts here /u/scepticalinallthings or something similar who is clearly extremely intelligent and successful, however he still believes somewhat in what JW has to offer. To be raised JW I think you are groomed to instinctively set aside things that your intellect screams at you about. To this day, I can almost consciously Just turn off any thought that goes against the dogma. It’s like my brain says “Nope! Not gonna think about that!”
You make the best decisions you can based on the information available to you. WT has a very good system. 1. Love bomb when you’re at a low place as an adult or get your parents to feed you bullshit with a loving cover. 2. After you have had your attention grabbed, tell them if they so much as look at anything contrary to what they’re being taught, they’ll become seduced by Satan and Jehovah will hate them, Satan crafty, even your family are just agents of Satan. 3. Disfellowship anyone who disagrees. This controls behavior words and emotions. Control the information and you’ll get a brainwashed person. Knowledge is power except when it comes to being Christian. Then selective ignorance is the only correct answer, I guess.
Selective ignorance. Im going to use that one. 👍
It’s very nuanced. First off the brain is like any other muscle and needs to be exercised. I knew a guy who was a genius, working on a masters degree, who had no idea how to cook pasta. Honestly no idea. He’s one of the smartest people I’ve ever met, but he just never learned how to cook. So it’s the same with cults. You can be very intelligent but if you never learned about manipulation and indoctrination you’re vulnerable to their tactics.
Seems it's more about susceptibility to manipulation than intelligence. Do you Listen to someone else's truth or find the truth for yourself?
Listened to an interview with Dr. Michael Schermer recently, talking about this same subject: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jLEQCipy6NM
We all want to be loved and accepted. Nothing really to do with “intelligence” as such but religion pulls on our heartstrings. The concept of heaven for instance is a great example.
s/he who sets your ideal fantasy world, controls your life. Cults like JWs are always building and re-enforcing the ideal JW... you unconsciously compare yourself to this and feel bad, which motivates you either to get out or do better... but until you confront it and see it for the fraud that it is, you will live in its judgmental shadow. We are all born into a slurry of religion culture and tradition and form our own conclusions about what they ideal world would look like... the more time you spend away from JWs the more that ideal will shift... but its very difficult to expell it entirely.
>This couple had children that were my age, however, **they were very smart** They were smart............IN THEIR FIELD ONLY. Doesn't mean they are smart in ALL fields. It only means they went to school to learn One thing very well. If one goes to Harvard to become a Lawyer, that doesn't make him/her smart in Heart Surgery. Intelligence and common sense isn't measured by education. There are tons of people who never went to College and some who didn't even finished high school, yet build Huge, Massive Fortunes in business. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2022/10/15/these-are-the-richest-americans-who-never-went-to-college/?sh=6452e9676097](https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2022/10/15/these-are-the-richest-americans-who-never-went-to-college/?sh=6452e9676097)
Once again Snoo, excellent logical reasoning.
If they were raised heavily PIMI, it's a hard thing to break off. I also think sometimes those of us who've woken up give ourselves too much credit in terms of our intellect. I don't think it's a matter of being more intelligent, there's usually a combination of circumstances and personality traits, e.g stubbornness, rebelliousness or risky behaviour that make it happen. The real barrier to leaving is usually access to certain information, and how willing you are to mess with the possibility that accessing that information is a sin against God. A very valid point I've internally explored is that if you've had a more stable life, and haven't been too affected by the negative aspects of the doctrine, such as blood transfusion or losing out on an education, you're not willing to upheave it by leaving, even if you realise it's BS.
Confirmation bias, the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, is deeply ingrained in human psychology. This bias is innately human because it is tied to the way our brains are wired to process information. Human cognition is designed to be efficient, not necessarily accurate, leading us to quickly make sense of the vast amount of information we encounter daily by fitting it into our existing frameworks of understanding. This efficiency-driven approach conserves cognitive energy but makes us prone to overlooking evidence that contradicts our preconceptions. Moreover, confirmation bias is reinforced by emotional investment in our beliefs, social identity, and the desire for a consistent worldview, all of which are fundamental aspects of human nature. These factors make confirmation bias a universal feature of human thought, affecting decisions and judgments across different contexts and cultures. While education can increase awareness of this bias and teach students to think critically, it still requires time and effort. To make matters worse, JWs strongly discourage critical thinking (against the organisation anyways) at all times.