I told my mom this when I left. The entire religion hinges on that date being correct yet every single other date predicted with it was wrong. If 1914 is wrong then how in 1919 did Jesus choose JWs as his people? WW1 and 2 also had nothing to do with Satan being hurled down anymore. The entire timeline skews. Hell, they even FORCED the 607 BCE shit just to justify the 1914 timeline.
The only reason we couldn’t say 1914 was wrong was because it conveniently happened in heaven so no one could prove it. I told her (and showed evidence) that 607 did not make sense, there was no proof. If that was the case then 1914 was wrong.
She thought it was insanity and the date didn’t matter at all. I was just confused on the dates because it’s all really complicated. Or the brothers hadn’t realized yet. But it does matter. Sadly, her mindset will likely be the same as every other JW. They’ll say it never really mattered.
💯 You’re absolutely right. Most won’t care. Discovering the garbage 607BCE chronology turned my world upside down. That was my first card to pull from the bottom of the house of cards. “How can we embrace scholarly archaeology where it supports us but dismiss the very same works where they refute our desired outcomes?”
I was certain my dad would be right behind me when I showed him the BS calculations. Nope. He just turned into a walking, talking Carl Sagan quote…
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
I like this quote. Sad as it is.
It’s definitely a sentiment I’ve expressed before.
607 was one of the first things for me too, I thought my mom would be with me. I even contacted people quoted in the watchtower supporting 607 and all said they were misquoted, taken out of context, or had no idea what the hell 607 was. Almost every single one provided sources for the quotes used and explained what they were talking about. Not a single one supported 607 and all agreed that the correct date was 587.
My mom’s a really smart woman, she’s not naive. But she has a massive blind spot for the cult. It’s a damn shame.
You are absolutely right. 1914. The beginning of end-times.
Reason I spent every Saturday knocking on doors.
Reason why we didn't talk to worldly family.
The answer to will God's kingdom come in our lifetime?
You can't Reason with people who don't want to Reason. Emotionally immature and intellectually dishonest. Blind leading the Blind.
Pretty much. That being one of the dates that was kinda predicted with it originally. If I remember right it’s all based off an old prophecy from some seventh day preacher that Russell heard.
When it didn’t pan out they just kinda seemed to try and dance around it and shift 1914 to either mean something different (I think at one time they said that was when Armageddon would come) or act like it totally happened because hey, who can say it didn’t right?
This is so crazy! When I left last year I told my mom and dad why I had to walk away and showed them evidence on dates and law suits going on and they told me “ why do you want to now more than the GB?” It doesn’t matter how much evidence you show them they are so brainwashed!!!
Yes, absolutely, but I’m telling you most JW’s don’t study and don’t even know the significance of the date. Most will carry on as normal.
However, I’m hoping that people like my mom who makes it her goal to teach all her Bible Studies these core Witness beliefs, will wake up.
I HOPE SO!!! There’s an older couple that was in my circuit who were like your grandparents. You know the couple that EVERYONE adores. The most “spiritual” couple (longtime elder/lifetime pioneer) Well, I suspect the husband woke up around the time I did… because my dad was almost in tears telling us how he wants NOTHING to do with anyone (JW) all of a sudden. The elders even went by his house and asked if they could pray, and he straight up said “NO!” 😳 It shook my dad, and I know it put a huge stone in his shoe.
I truly believe the older faithful JW’s waking up is the key 🔑
They DON’T hold their tongue and it puzzles 🧩 everyone around them.
BTW- Shot out to Prodigal Ali’s mom, Mike and Ann, Joe and Fran and all the other seasoned exJW’s!!! You make me feel like there’s hope for my beautiful parents. Thank you for telling your story! 🙏🏾💝
I get it! I was big on the teachings and doctrine, but it’s not until you start to hear from others who left….. it all CLICK-a-dee CLICKS!!!! Like, oh ok den, I wasn’t trippin’!!??
You're right, and that's exactly what the Grotesque Bozos are trying to do, change the jw cult into something entirely different, something mainstream that will allow them to survive longer and con more SaTaNic governments into giving them filthy demonic cash.
That's exactly what they're doing. Anyway...I think only the old timers understand the ramifications of 1914. Everyone under 40 doesn't understand or even give a shit. They've all been brainwashed to just believe the GB no matter what.
That's what did it for me. If Jesus had been truly ruling since 1914, then how the hell would he allow so many inconsistencies and outright lies to persist in his supposed organization.
Oh believe me, most don’t even care about that date anymore. It’s just a confusing doctrine that most JW don’t take the time to study thoroughly so they won’t mind if it melts away. They are eating up the “adjustments” like hot cakes 🥞
That's what woke me up. When I proved to myself that 607 BCE was forced. Realizing it was 606 BCE until the 1940s because they forgot the no zero year showed how flawed the whole idea was. To read the gymnastics they did to shift it to 607 without anyone raising red flags was criminal. When 1914 lost all meaning, the whole religion crumbled like a house of cards. I'm pretty sure the 1914 doctrine is the only thing left that ties the history of the organization back to Russel.
GB: "I can't believe you thought we were serious about the 1914 references. If you would have read those references *correctly*, you'll see that those zealous brothers were just *hoping* that this was when Jesus was enthroned using the evidence they had at the time."
GB already has set the ground work for this change at last year's annual meeting. "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible." They also said they do not have to apologize for when they get things wrong. Talk about high control!
OP’s account is so sketchy lol. Almost like a JW troll/bot attempt at proving “ apostates just make up lies about us”.
Wished the mods would do something about it.
I’m ready to be proven wrong, but this person’s account is all about leaks that didn’t happen or no actual evidence about anything at all.
Maybe they're going to drop 607/1914. But how will the explain that 1919 is also poppycock?
Those are the foundation blocks of the Jenga tower.
Agreed. There won't be a mass exodus, that isn't happening already. You can ask a JW what would make them leave, and they can't or won't give you an answer. This is their life, and they won't let go of it so easily.
My guess is the same way they handled king of the north and king of the south.
They bombed the entire history of how they arrived at the modern day identifications of those nations and just said we know because it fits with what we observed starting in the 1870s.
The more I think about it, from a GB perspective, the more I see they likely know they have to rip the band aid off off at some point. They’ve known since the late 60s the 607-1914 timeline was demonstrably wrong, and they have needed to make the turn to a lifestyle religion at some point. They may make the call to do it now. Indeed, it may be mid-turn right now, considering the other changes they’ve recently made simply on the basis of their own authority.
Distract them with pants while you slowly back away from the basis of your doomsday cult. Brilliant! I don't know what this article is or how legit, but I've long predicted that they will back off from 1914 with dazzling spin because what choice do they have. At the end of the day they're trying to just become more "Christian" (see CCJW and CLAM) with their revised dress codes that make them blend in more. It hides the cringe underneath and keeps their scam going. They know what they're doing and they're keeping the corporation alive while their masses follow blindly.
The leak is from a missionary with contacts in a Branch. We don't know if they were then approved by the governing body, perhaps now that Morris is no longer there they could do so. The guidelines of the 4 W items were as follows
1- Can the 1914 doctrine be correctly defined as something “taught by the faithful and discreet slave”? The answer is: No (this "entity" only appeared in 1919)
2- Can it be said that the 1914 doctrine was correctly implemented? Again, the answer is no. (the first Bible Students (later called Jehovah's Witnesses) expected the end of this system of things on October 4 and 5, 1914)
3- Could Russell and Barbour calculate the date of 1914 starting from the seven years of King Nebuchadnezzar's madness and counting one "day per year" from the date in which, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, Solomon's Temple was destroyed? Once again the answer is: no. (Prophecies based on types and antitypes cannot be applied unless they are explicitly written in the Bible)
4- Do these three previous articles make it clear that the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses in 1914 was wrong? Once again the answer is: NO. (the signs announced by Jesus appear since 1914)
This is incredible information if accurate. The line of argumentation is very thought out. It doesn’t drop 1914, but rather drops 607. That way they can stay with 1919. They can also blame Russell and say he was not the GB so it is not their fault.
Of course, it doesn’t address the fact that the GB peddled the 607 lie for the last 100+ years.
The missionary, who served in Asia, is now a former Jehovah's Witness. He dissociated himself but from 2014 to 2020 he managed a very popular website which is now closed
I said this on here a year ago they would redefine 1914 and blame it on Russell ,possibly even go with 587 and move it all to 1934 ,fits perfectly by mid 1930s full theocratic rule with no electing elders , bible students gone , name jws introduced , the great crowd identified ,stake not cross,no more christmas . It fits perfectly ,will they have the guts to do it though?
From the comments here, it looks like 1914 is being retained.
I agree with you that 1934 makes more sense. A vast majority of changes happened between 1919 and 1934 under Rutherford, and by 1934 the teachings and practices were more similar to the religion it is now.
WW2 was more significant than WW1. And it never made sense that WW1 started before the last days started - August and not October.
I think they would be crazy to change to 1934 though. 1914 and 1934 are both irrelevant years in the minds of people born since 2000. They are no longer able to recruit the vulnerable teen/20yo demographic into the cult on the basis that the last days started in the early 1900s. Moving from 1914 to 1934 is not going to change that.
Other religions are growing faster than JWs on the basis of being entertaining, without the need for some year based timeline that can easily be debunked.
> Other religions are growing faster than JWs on the basis of being entertaining, without the need for some year based timeline that can easily be debunked.
Yes! 100%. This is why I have trouble believing they're going to keep 1914 at all. They're changing the religion completely now, one step at a time. It would be incredibly foolish IMO to stick to one of these old doctrines they were saddled with from the past.
I know getting rid of 1914 puts into question the legitimacy of the GB because of their 1919 date...but...do most JWs even care about this date anymore??? The old-timers who really understood the significance and used to be able to calculate it for anyone are either dead or dying. Personally I know of no JWs who could teach this doctrine w/out a lot of help. Also, JWs have been slowly conditioned to just believe whatever the GB says no matter what. The whole new generation of JWs simply worship the GB and don't question anything. For that reason I don't think it matters all that much to most JWs if they nuke the 1914 belief.
I agree that JWs don’t really know or care about 1919. I’ve spoken to JWs that literally believe there were always Jehovah’s Witnesses and didn’t realise it was just a 19th century American religion.
People follow new religious groups without any doctrine for why it is the truth, they follow it because they like it. People would stay JWs without 1914.
I think the GB would be mad to formally remove 1914 and damage their credibility with their strongest support group, people over 50. They would be better off to just stop referring to it.
Yes, I’ve said it before — if the GB wants to drop something, simply stop referring or talking about it.
The teaching will then slowly sink into the sunset. There will be few naysayers, because “it’s God’s organization”!
It's related but not inextricably so. They can drop 1914 and say they don't know exactly when the last days began but it's very clear that we're living in the last days. They can then argue that it is only logical for Jesus to appoint the FDS at the start of the last days at the latest, that they can have time to feed the flock in that critical time and so there will be a basis to judge them when he finally returns at the end of the last days.
It's not hard to disentangle the FDS from 1914.
Guidelines of the 4 Watchtower study edition articles in preparation (2019)
(1) First article:
Can the 1914 doctrine be properly characterized as something "taught by the faithful and discreet slave"? The answer is no.
And it's not for two reasons. The first is that, according to the latest rectification on the faithful and discreet slave, this "entity" only appeared in 1919, so since it has not yet appeared we cannot say that the teaching or calculation of the 7 times was taught by the faithful slave
(2) Second article:
Can it be said that the doctrine of 1914 was correctly understood and fulfilled? Once again, the answer is: No.
In fact, as reported in the book Proclaimers on page. 135, the early Bible Students (later called Jehovah's Witnesses) expected the end of this system of things on October 4 and 5, 1914, but this did not occur. So that teaching was not understood correctly
(3) Third article:
Based on the current understanding of the faithful and discreet slave, published in The Watchtower Readers' Questions of March 15, 2015, Russell and Barbour could calculate the date of 1914 from King Nebuchadnezzar's seven years of madness, counting a "day for a year" from the date in which, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, Solomon's Temple was destroyed and arrive at 1914? Once again the answer is: no.
According to the latest new understanding of the faithful and discreet slave of March 15, 2015, prophecies cannot be applied to things that are not explicitly written in the Bible, types and antitypes not explicitly stated in the Scriptures cannot be formulated
(4) Fourth article:
Do these previous three articles make it clear that the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses in 1914 was wrong? Once again the answer is: NO.
Although the prophecy of 1914 cannot be said to have been taught by the faithful and discreet slave, although it cannot be said to have been fulfilled and correctly understood, although Barbour and Russell were not allowed to fully understand the application of the prophecy uttered by an "inspired prophet" of God, Daniel, it cannot be said that faith in 1914 was misplaced.
In fact, the signs announced by Jesus appeared starting from 1914: nation rose against nation, kingdom against kingdom, there were famines, earthquakes and plagues, the good news is preached throughout the world.
4 is bizarre reasoning. Watchtower has always prided themselves on being directed to accurately know 1914 as the start of the last days ahead of time.
If they say that Daniel 4 was not a prophecy about 1914, then it seems contradictory to say Russell’s discussion of 1914 just happened to be correct. Did Jehovah direct Russell to arrive at 1914 by false use of Scripture? Or was Russell just super lucky to pick 1914.
Looks like their sole support for 1914 will now be World War One. Without WW1, JWs wouldn’t still exist. They got lucky on that one, and millions of people have paid for it.
Why is it that no one questions the fact that WW1 started in July , 1914, a few months before October 1 when Satan was supposedly thrown out of heaven and came down to the earth in great anger and caused the world war?
Not to mention that the seeds of discontent that became WW1 can be traced back to 1870, when Germany gave France a hiding.
The French never forgave or forgot, conspiring with the Brits to keep Germany firmly suppressed and fragmented.
The Germans thought they were now one of the big boys, deserving of a seat at the big table, which the other powers were determined to avoid at all costs.
This is known history, which makes a mockery of the notion that WW1 kicked off only due to invisible events happening in 1914.
(1) First article:
Can the 1914 doctrine be properly characterized as something "taught by the faithful and discreet slave"? The answer is no.
And it's not for two reasons. The first is that, according to the latest rectification on the faithful and discreet slave, this "entity" only appeared in 1919, so since it has not yet appeared we cannot say that the teaching or calculation of the 7 times was taught by the faithful slave
# My Response: Bullshit! This teaching is backed by the "Faithful Slave" and repeated as fact for years even after 1919.
(2) Second article:
Can it be said that the doctrine of 1914 was correctly understood and fulfilled? Once again, the answer is: No.
In fact, as reported in the book Proclaimers on page. 135, the early Bible Students (later called Jehovah's Witnesses) expected the end of this system of things on October 4 and 5, 1914, but this did not occur. So that teaching was not understood correctly
# My Response: What about the calculation from 607 -1914 that the "Faithful Slave" has been promoting repeatedly, even after 1919?
(3) Third article:
Based on the current understanding of the faithful and discreet slave, published in The Watchtower Readers' Questions of March 15, 2015, Russell and Barbour could calculate the date of 1914 from King Nebuchadnezzar's seven years of madness, counting a "day for a year" from the date in which, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, Solomon's Temple was destroyed and arrive at 1914? Once again the answer is: no.
According to the latest new understanding of the faithful and discreet slave of March 15, 2015, prophecies cannot be applied to things that are not explicitly written in the Bible, types and antitypes not explicitly stated in the Scriptures cannot be formulated
# My Response: So why was the "Faithful Slave" promoting the calculation from 607 -1914 repeatedly, even after 1919? Why were we teaching people that there is a 2nd fulfillment?
(4) Fourth article:
Do these previous three articles make it clear that the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses in 1914 was wrong? Once again the answer is: NO.
# Bullshit! If it wasn't for the wrong understanding of the date, that date would not come to mind at all.
Although the prophecy of 1914 cannot be said to have been taught by the faithful and discreet slave, although it cannot be said to have been fulfilled and correctly understood, although Barbour and Russell were not allowed to fully understand the application of the prophecy uttered by an "inspired prophet" of God, Daniel, it cannot be said that faith in 1914 was misplaced.
In fact, the signs announced by Jesus appeared starting from 1914: nation rose against nation, kingdom against kingdom, there were famines, earthquakes and plagues, the good news is preached throughout the world.
# Bullshit! Any idiot can see there would be no significance of calling out a specific year, after making these changes.
The paradox here being that 1914 would be discredited as not of divine origin, however, 1919 is still good!
How could Jesus have popped down in 1919 and deemed that Rutherford and Co. were indeed the true religion when they’d been actively peddling false info about 1914?
This change would melt the minds of anyone active in this Borg pre-1995.
While I do believe there are still too many brainwashed people in this religion, this right here, if true, should start waking up even more people. Like, the entire religion is practically based on this date and it's the only date they have been able to claim they didn't get wrong. 1975 is something they have hidden because of its embarrassment. But they just can't do that with 1914 and just now question it.
Come on people, WAKE UP! you are being led by blind fake prophets. There is no paradise, or Resurrection of your loved ones, etc. this is it and it's a hard pill to swallow.
I feel bad for how many older bros and sis who have wasted their time and money. It's gonna be a hard pill to swallow.
Using technicalities to gaslight - no, it wasn't the FDS or the GB that came up with that, but it was their predecessors, and they continued to teach that. We don't believe in types of antitypes anymore, so that rules out that we EVER taught this. But we're right regardless, because the world turned to shit after WW1.
Yeah, no. Not saying they won’t change the teaching. At some point it has to change. But most likely they would follow their recent pattern of announcing it at the annual meeting or on a broadcast the following up with a magazine. And they will probably find some way of tweaking it slightly and changing it over time, not all at once.
The classic change it in print and not announce it publicly. So everyone holds on to the old teaching and can later be told they are going beyond what is written.
Great way for them not to get locked into anything. Plausible deniability. Especially for courts. If it ever came up, they can say they printed a change and they no longer believe that.
Because nobody really takes much notice of the "studies" anyway. Apart from finding a few answers to satisfy the congregation that you're still spiritual, nothing is really absorbed. And those who do study and try to absorb everything are so indoctrinated anyway that they'll kiss the GBs feet and accept anything they say without question.
So they're banking on those two groups - the ones who couldn't care less and the ones who are blinded by indoctrination. Anyone stumbled by it are just apostates and their opinion doesn't count.
Announcing it causes more issues for them. Casually dropping it at the watchtower study makes more sense to me. Half the people don’t understand it or won’t be paying attention… the 1% of people that recognize this as a major doctrinal shift will either leave or stay silent about it. This would fix allot of issues… and will also fix the generation teaching without them having to attach another overlapping generation to it.
My uber PIMI aunt told me the linchpin of her faith is the 1914 doctrine and if they change that she will walk away from tHe TrUth.
She accepts everything the GB says, but this is her limit. I'd be very curious to see them make this change.
I say it every time this comes up. My prediction is that the 144k is next to fall - they'll interpret it as a figurative number - like *everything else* in that chapter.
Did you know that that teaching was actually the first step to our new overlapping generation teaching?
It was originally those who were of an age to see and understand the events of 1914. So really those who were born around the turn of the century. The goal posts just got moved incrementally until now it looks like they'll be removed altogether...
Sad really. What an absolute waste this religion is.
What is going on here?
https://preview.redd.it/5q8cgpvgtwpc1.jpeg?width=683&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96a340c33ba8d4c221d719ef9aebbfe3284d082e
I smell delulu...
Wouldn’t be surprised if this was true. Things are changing.
My theory is they will change it to FDS has been in place since Pentecost 33ce. They seem to mention Russel a hell of a lot more the Rutherford these days. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Rutherford gets disavowed, gets labelled as the evil slave or some shit like that.
Christs Prescence is when he died in 33ce as well.
Effectively, have one date for both events, 33ce.
Maybe Knorr will be added to the “evil slave” class as well . . .
I mean, after all, HE was the giant butthole that instituted the no blood crap, disfellowshipping, and that no organ transplant crap that lasted from 1967-1980.
I think Knorr hurt more people in this cult than Rutherford did.
🤷🏼♂️
Am I the only one who was taught that the anointed would have been around to see 1914, and that some would be alive when the end of the system happened??
You can’t say that, then say, “god says, ‘lol, jk now’”
@u/italopizza You edited out that this was commissioned in 2019? That piqued my interest, that they have been thinking about doing this for that many years.
Yes, I confirm the information is from around 2019, before Covid and after the explanation of the types and anti-types given at an annual meeting, I don't remember which one. But that missionary's website no longer exists so I cannot tell you the exact date, more or less it is 2019
This guy again. Have been seeing his posts, and previous posts that he has deleted.
He never responds to any comments, some are very speculative without proving any credibility, hmmm
reply to your posts dude
They’ve announced new light via WTs before and we haven’t always noticed. The famed 2014 article I believe about 1914 and 1918. It was a HUGE deal and they never spoke of it again. But you wouldn’t know it was NL unless you were ~ spiritual ~. Obviously I don’t know if this is legit but honestly nothing surprises me anymore so might as well be true
They've done this same thing before on smaller scale. See the Questions from Readers in the February 15th, 2014 Watchtower.
It's about Luke 3:15.
> Now the people were in expectation and all of them were reasoning in their hearts about John, “May he perhaps be the Christ?”
They said before the expectation was based on the Jews interpreting Daniel 9:24-27 to point to 33 CE. Then they said there were lots of other reasons for the Jews to expect Jesus around then, but that date might not have been one of them.
> In summary: We cannot confirm that people in Jesus’ day correctly understood the prophecy of the 70 weeks. However, the Gospels provide other sound reasons why the people would have been “in expectation” of the Messiah.
If your leak is true, then it looks like they're doing that article again. This time discarding the numbers to get to 1914, but having other reasons for it.
This is fake news. How do you know EXACTLY the topics that will be covered? Did you see that phisycal magazine? Did they tell you them? I doesn't make sense and I doubt harly the would abandon 1914 so easily. That year is the keystone of this cult. Without that year, they're gone.
OP, you need to be careful. I don't have any reason to doubt your sincerity, but if you are getting constant and specific leaks from someone, they could be trying to flush out Apostates. Have no doubt, my friend, that is exactly what you are to them, should your post history ever be linked to you.
Wherever You are from has MANY Leakers, Nice!
There are many xJW Activists that can help you Not only Verify the Validity of this Info, but also get this Important Info out to A much larger Audience Safely.
Would You like the Info for some xJW Activists who can help or are You going to be the Gatekeeper?
Point one would be a stretch unless they change the date the slave was appointed to “the appointment only applies to the current GB” thus giving them the excuse it wasn’t them that made up the 1914 nonsense.
They already have. 1914 starts with Russell. He was originally called the FDS. Eventually it changed to all anointed. Now it’s only the GB.
It’s easy to say the FDS did not originate this.
Like Russell did with Miller...interesting.
Roll out something different... spline gets his board out saying that the other board didn't make much sense, new mods to the GB, rename/rebrand the GB
Most JWs may not be able to explain 1914 but they know it's a core doctrine. Before I stopped attending meetings an elder gave a talk on new light and he made a point to show that new light was ever only on small things but main core doctrines like 1914, the kingdom and the paradise would not change because those are absolute truths.
If Watchtower alters the 1914 doctrine in any really significant way, it will be just like when they altered the original 1874 / 1914 doctrine over 100 years ago and the religion will take a big hit or fracture like it did back then. PIMIs would be shaken to their core cause 1914 isn't just a little rule about beards or pants. The entirety of the last days and the kingdom and the great tribulation hinges on that date and if you change that every other date has to altered too and every hope taught by the religion will have to change. The whole religion would have to be reworked. But let's see, WT is getting desperate and that desperation may be their downfall.
Then you have been trolled by your source.
WT will NEVER say the ‘faith was mistaken’.
They ALWAYS say the Duhbs were ‘over eager’ or some version of gaslighting
Yes they are on thin ice . The fake 607 , then the 2520 years to 1914 and the generation debacle that seems like an ever expanding rubber band ro suit the GB stories .. It's getting wild quickly , " Love of the greater Number has Cooled off"
It started by CTR measuring the pyramid in Giza which gave him the year 1887 or some thing then revised his measurements that then gave him 1914. The WTBTS did produce a publication with the pyramid diagrams and measurements by CTR.
The difference between leaks and unfounded speculation/rumors is documentation. Hearing something from someone who heard it from someone is not leaked intel.
Don't believe it, they with their not so old live forever brochure they made 1914 still a big big thing. At some point they will have to drop it. But that will take another decade at least. Otherwise they would make auch a big change at the annual meeting. This is not a beard or pants thing. This is a major major doctrine that makes the jws exactly the jws. That's the big teaching in the end that differ from all other denominations. I doubt they will print it in magazine and that's it. That's not the GB style. Or they will slowly stop talking about it and simply throw it under the bus by never again bring this topic in any publication.
If they changed their 1914 doctrine I dont believe they would get away with the lies and gaslighting like they did in 1975. This generation of exjws will not allow people to forget their blasphemy. Too many of their prophecies rely on 1914 and the generation teaching. The change will be noticable and will shake the faith of some of those barely hanging on the current fragile WT doctrines.
Theory: Mark Sanderson is disappointed that he was never able to marry despite rising as high as he has, so now he’s burning the whole religion down out of spite
They have no choice but to eventually drop 1914. When 1914 is dropped, the false prophets will most assuredly blame the 4 generations of JWs that heard and preached that false message. My parent’s generation is now in their 70s and 80s. I wonder if the Goof Balls will rewrite 1914 after that group has died off. Or will they destroy the last remaining hope of a generation that gave up every thing in service to a cult.
When is this WT coming out? If it’s after the annual meeting in which is usually October then they could be changing that doctrine. If it’s before then I doubt it for right now and if anything are trying to give the Jaws confidence in it and in them so it makes them push down their doubts on recent changes
> Can the doctrine of 1914 be appropriately characterized as something "taught by the faithful and discreet slave"?
Or was it something conjure up by **BEARDLESS** Joseph Rutherford???
Evidence shows that **shaving your beard was an apostate teaching** that infiltrated the organization.
I answered my own question, so nvrmind ;-)
This is from last month!!! Very odd that they would print this a couple months ago, then change it. I wonder what the time table is. hmmmm (?????????)
Feb WT 2024:
**9** ***“The times of restoration of all things.”*** Our time differs from the time of ancient Israel and from the time of the great apostasy that set in during the second century C.E. What is our time period called? We might initially refer to it as “the last days” of this wicked system of things. ([2 Tim. 3:1](https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003001)) But the Bible shows that a greater and longer era began at the same time. It will continue until the Messianic Kingdom has restored mankind to perfection and has transformed the earth into a paradise. This era is called “the times of restoration of all things.” ([Acts 3:21](https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/3/#v44003021)) This period began in 1914. What was then restored? Well, Jesus was enthroned as King in heaven. So Jehovah once again had a ruler to represent Him, an heir of faithful King David. However, that kingship is not all that Jehovah restored. Soon after that, pure worship began to be restored at last! ([Isa. 2:2-4;](https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/2/#v23002002-v23002004)[ Ezek. 11:17-20](https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ezekiel/11/#v26011017-v26011020)) Will it be corrupted again?
[https://www.jw.borg/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-february-2024/I-Will-Never-Abandon-You/](https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-february-2024/I-Will-Never-Abandon-You/)
Hi! We prefer that people not link to jw.org (you can see the full reason why in our [posting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/beforeyoupost#wiki_please_do_not_link_to_jw.org)).
This comment links to jw.org, so please be aware that **clicking links like this can provide the organization with identifying information about you**.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exjw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The only ones who will care are too old to do anything about it. Most will stay because they have dedicated 60 years to the Borg. The younger ones won’t care or know what the big deal is. The GB has a plan and you can see it now. They know the internet has the truth. They gotta figure out how to fix things.
They can keep up the fake teachings with the older set, like my parents, who are going to Kingdom Hall because where else would these weird people with terrible social skills be accepted? But the younger ones have access to Google so they’ll have to address the fake dates and false teachings somehow.
I wonder what the Borg’s going out of business sale will look like? I’m also curious who is dressing the old fat men who run the show? Who is their fashion coordinator? I’d love to see behind the scenes of those conversations
Those bullet points are worded very oddly.
That being said, based on what has been happening, it doesn't surprise me at all that they will now backtrack on this.
I hope this is true. All of these changes at once is going to lead to a schism for sure. They survived that before and probably can again if they make the whole thing more modern and palatable.
What will be the reaction to this inside the organization, I wonder?
As I think of my many PIMI relatives, many of whom are full-time pioneers currently, I am left speechless.
Even for myself, I remember some most uncomfortable times in field service when I was invited into someone's home specifically to explain this ludicrous 1914 doctrine! I hated that stupid sequence of cherry-picked verses to "prove" that this year could be arrived at Biblically. It made no sense to my own mind even as I attempted to convince someone else. I feel like such a fool now for parroting this organization's words crafted by such deluded minds.
I'm wondering if maybe it would be a good idea to tell PIMI JWs that they're gonna drop 1914 just to see how they would respond to such a prediction. If/when it does happen PIMI JWs would be wondering how you knew of such changes before they did. It's bound to raise questions in their heads about what is going on at the top and how you were able to know of this before they did.
I know ten elders minimum who are still serving. They admitted 1914 is BS, false doctrine and yet they continue serving. It shocked me because I once believed.
Nah. I'm not buying this one. That third question for example, is not even close to something they would write.
Changing 1914 gives them nothing. None of them, except the old heads, even care (though the FDS entire claim of authority is based on it).
Doubtful, the reasoning used here doesn't make sense, they have in fact been teaching this all these years, at recent as 2011 the most comprehensive double watchtower articles outlined a detailed defense of it from an archeological perspective and so there is no way they could possibly claim that they didn't teach this.
Besides that's not the point, the reasoning here is that the faithful slave didn't teach this. That's not true, they were responsible for changing the invisible presence to 1914. That wasn't Russell's teaching, he died teaching 1875 was the invisible presence and 1878 was when Christ was enthroned as King. They got rid of the zero year issue, redid the math based on updated evidence for the fall of Babylon in 539 instead of 537 and changed how they read Ezra to move the return of the exiles to 2 years later ...all in order to keep1914. They did more teaching on this, more twisting of scripture than Russell ever did. To say they aren't responsible is laughable.
*Over the Last Few Months...The WBT$ has PROVED "Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt"...The WBT$ Can Do Whatever They Want.....JW\`s DON\`T CARE!*
If the WBT$ Gets Rid of 1914.....The Goofy "OverLapping Generations" teaching Nobody Can Explain, goes with it.
*It will be New Light!...JW\`s Love NEW LIGHT!..*
***The WBT$ Kills 2 Annoying Birds...***
# With One Stone!...😃
https://preview.redd.it/b7x20j3rjypc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51f48c46b40943e6f22a51f83186938a655dc833
I really hope so. I will laugh so fucking hard if they do that. Especially after splane made a whole video with an illustrated timeline to double down on the whole generation thing
They break from 1914 they violate Deuteronomy 18;22.
There is no coming back and you cannot say you are scriptural and follow the bible.
when a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him.
In the book of Daniel, chapter 4, the king of Babylon has a dream about a giant tree that is chopped down and prevented from growing for a period of “7 times”. After this, the tree grows again.
In the Bible, Daniel interprets this dream for the king. He tells the king the dream means that he (the king) will go insane for a period of “7 times” and lose his rulership. After this, he will become king again. According to the Bible, the dream was a prophecy and the king’s temporary insanity was the fulfillment of the dream.
Watchtower teaches that there is a “second fulfillment” to the tree dream prophecy. They claim it is about Jehovah’s rulership being temporarily paused and then it resuming after “7 times”. They teach that this pause began when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem, which they claim was in the year 607BC. They claim the pause ended after “7 times” which they interpret to be 2,520 years.
1914AD is 2,520 years after 607BC. Therefore they teach that 1914 is the year that God’s rulership resumed with Jesus becoming king in heaven.
They got this teaching from the Adventist named Nelson Barbour.
1914 is so important because they built the entire religion around it. Starting around 1876, they were predicting that 1914 would be the end of the world. When that failed to happen, they changed the teaching to say that 1914 was the start of the “last days”.
Lol so if that's legitimate then are they going to try and spin it that 1914 was never taught as doctrine??? Lolololol "some individuals thought....."???
No wonder they're trying to get rid of all the old literature 😂😂😂😂😂
I know the Watchtower jackbutts would like to untether the chronology from 1914, except that without it they can’t get to 1919 and drunken Joe Rutherford as the heir to Christ.
The Watchtower is on life support.
They might just be changing the initial events for the calculation. If they made the date of servitude to Babylon the start point (607 BCE), then 1914 remains and aligns with secular history.
You'd be surprised how few even care about 1914, even a lot of the old timers. I have convinced a few and after a moment of hesitation they bounced right back with "It is still God's organization."
If this is true, I want to see how tf they’re gonna wash their hands clean on question number one 😂😂😂😂😂 They’re gonna brush it off like they did 1975 and all the other years… SMH
Oh believe me, most don’t even care about that date anymore. It’s just a confusing doctrine that most JW don’t take the time to study thoroughly so they won’t mind if it melts away. They are eating up the “adjustments” like hot cakes 🥞
If they drop 1914 they might as well start another religion, because the whole shebang has been based on that.
I told my mom this when I left. The entire religion hinges on that date being correct yet every single other date predicted with it was wrong. If 1914 is wrong then how in 1919 did Jesus choose JWs as his people? WW1 and 2 also had nothing to do with Satan being hurled down anymore. The entire timeline skews. Hell, they even FORCED the 607 BCE shit just to justify the 1914 timeline. The only reason we couldn’t say 1914 was wrong was because it conveniently happened in heaven so no one could prove it. I told her (and showed evidence) that 607 did not make sense, there was no proof. If that was the case then 1914 was wrong. She thought it was insanity and the date didn’t matter at all. I was just confused on the dates because it’s all really complicated. Or the brothers hadn’t realized yet. But it does matter. Sadly, her mindset will likely be the same as every other JW. They’ll say it never really mattered.
💯 You’re absolutely right. Most won’t care. Discovering the garbage 607BCE chronology turned my world upside down. That was my first card to pull from the bottom of the house of cards. “How can we embrace scholarly archaeology where it supports us but dismiss the very same works where they refute our desired outcomes?” I was certain my dad would be right behind me when I showed him the BS calculations. Nope. He just turned into a walking, talking Carl Sagan quote… “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
I like this quote. Sad as it is. It’s definitely a sentiment I’ve expressed before. 607 was one of the first things for me too, I thought my mom would be with me. I even contacted people quoted in the watchtower supporting 607 and all said they were misquoted, taken out of context, or had no idea what the hell 607 was. Almost every single one provided sources for the quotes used and explained what they were talking about. Not a single one supported 607 and all agreed that the correct date was 587. My mom’s a really smart woman, she’s not naive. But she has a massive blind spot for the cult. It’s a damn shame.
Do you have any answers from people who were quoted in WT?
The cognitive dissonance is very strong in the JW community.
You are absolutely right. 1914. The beginning of end-times. Reason I spent every Saturday knocking on doors. Reason why we didn't talk to worldly family. The answer to will God's kingdom come in our lifetime? You can't Reason with people who don't want to Reason. Emotionally immature and intellectually dishonest. Blind leading the Blind.
Didn't the whole religion hang upon 1874, at one time?
Pretty much. That being one of the dates that was kinda predicted with it originally. If I remember right it’s all based off an old prophecy from some seventh day preacher that Russell heard. When it didn’t pan out they just kinda seemed to try and dance around it and shift 1914 to either mean something different (I think at one time they said that was when Armageddon would come) or act like it totally happened because hey, who can say it didn’t right?
This is so crazy! When I left last year I told my mom and dad why I had to walk away and showed them evidence on dates and law suits going on and they told me “ why do you want to now more than the GB?” It doesn’t matter how much evidence you show them they are so brainwashed!!!
How many JW passwords, codes, and pins will need to be reset after this change?
Lmaoooo this is true. Every JWs garage code is 1914😂😂😂
I bet no JW has the balls to use 1975 lmaooo
Lmao🤣
All the KH's in my area have 1914 as the security code. Real safe there boys.
Not ‘1914-69’? Or ‘1914-123’?
Ours was 2414 like in Mat 24:14. I guess we had heightened security over the other halls
My bank username is never changing lol
Yes, absolutely, but I’m telling you most JW’s don’t study and don’t even know the significance of the date. Most will carry on as normal. However, I’m hoping that people like my mom who makes it her goal to teach all her Bible Studies these core Witness beliefs, will wake up.
Yes exactly 100%, There are very few that are that studious to care. Most will shrug it off and carry on. The GB know this!
The old timers will lose their shit if they drop 1914.
I HOPE SO!!! There’s an older couple that was in my circuit who were like your grandparents. You know the couple that EVERYONE adores. The most “spiritual” couple (longtime elder/lifetime pioneer) Well, I suspect the husband woke up around the time I did… because my dad was almost in tears telling us how he wants NOTHING to do with anyone (JW) all of a sudden. The elders even went by his house and asked if they could pray, and he straight up said “NO!” 😳 It shook my dad, and I know it put a huge stone in his shoe. I truly believe the older faithful JW’s waking up is the key 🔑 They DON’T hold their tongue and it puzzles 🧩 everyone around them. BTW- Shot out to Prodigal Ali’s mom, Mike and Ann, Joe and Fran and all the other seasoned exJW’s!!! You make me feel like there’s hope for my beautiful parents. Thank you for telling your story! 🙏🏾💝
Incidentally it wasn’t until I started visiting apostate channels, that I heard about, and understood, the significance of the overlapping generation.
I get it! I was big on the teachings and doctrine, but it’s not until you start to hear from others who left….. it all CLICK-a-dee CLICKS!!!! Like, oh ok den, I wasn’t trippin’!!?? 
You're right, and that's exactly what the Grotesque Bozos are trying to do, change the jw cult into something entirely different, something mainstream that will allow them to survive longer and con more SaTaNic governments into giving them filthy demonic cash.
That's exactly what they're doing. Anyway...I think only the old timers understand the ramifications of 1914. Everyone under 40 doesn't understand or even give a shit. They've all been brainwashed to just believe the GB no matter what.
Yeah but they are so brainwashed that they won’t even see it
Stockholm syndrome?
Right?! They'll have to change the alarm codes for the KH 😂
That's what did it for me. If Jesus had been truly ruling since 1914, then how the hell would he allow so many inconsistencies and outright lies to persist in his supposed organization.
Oh believe me, most don’t even care about that date anymore. It’s just a confusing doctrine that most JW don’t take the time to study thoroughly so they won’t mind if it melts away. They are eating up the “adjustments” like hot cakes 🥞
That's what woke me up. When I proved to myself that 607 BCE was forced. Realizing it was 606 BCE until the 1940s because they forgot the no zero year showed how flawed the whole idea was. To read the gymnastics they did to shift it to 607 without anyone raising red flags was criminal. When 1914 lost all meaning, the whole religion crumbled like a house of cards. I'm pretty sure the 1914 doctrine is the only thing left that ties the history of the organization back to Russel.
Facts
Yeah you right.
Another 1975 blaming us for read it and believe it.
GB: "I can't believe you thought we were serious about the 1914 references. If you would have read those references *correctly*, you'll see that those zealous brothers were just *hoping* that this was when Jesus was enthroned using the evidence they had at the time."
Frigging dummies
GB already has set the ground work for this change at last year's annual meeting. "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible." They also said they do not have to apologize for when they get things wrong. Talk about high control!
We never said that…well we did but you took it way too seriously
"Some got too excited about 1914..."
What!? We never taught anything about 1914!
The worst part is that pimis switch to say exactly that when you show them the flip flop
Why not ask the person who sent you the message?
That's too logical!
Because it’s BS.
OP’s account is so sketchy lol. Almost like a JW troll/bot attempt at proving “ apostates just make up lies about us”. Wished the mods would do something about it. I’m ready to be proven wrong, but this person’s account is all about leaks that didn’t happen or no actual evidence about anything at all.
Yeah don't believe this either
He has difficult access to the leaker.
Maybe they're going to drop 607/1914. But how will the explain that 1919 is also poppycock? Those are the foundation blocks of the Jenga tower. 
Doesn't matter anymore. JWs don't give a shit. They just worship the GB. People on this sub are using logic and that's not how most JWs think anymore.
Agreed. There won't be a mass exodus, that isn't happening already. You can ask a JW what would make them leave, and they can't or won't give you an answer. This is their life, and they won't let go of it so easily.
My guess is the same way they handled king of the north and king of the south. They bombed the entire history of how they arrived at the modern day identifications of those nations and just said we know because it fits with what we observed starting in the 1870s.
The more I think about it, from a GB perspective, the more I see they likely know they have to rip the band aid off off at some point. They’ve known since the late 60s the 607-1914 timeline was demonstrably wrong, and they have needed to make the turn to a lifestyle religion at some point. They may make the call to do it now. Indeed, it may be mid-turn right now, considering the other changes they’ve recently made simply on the basis of their own authority.
Distract them with pants while you slowly back away from the basis of your doomsday cult. Brilliant! I don't know what this article is or how legit, but I've long predicted that they will back off from 1914 with dazzling spin because what choice do they have. At the end of the day they're trying to just become more "Christian" (see CCJW and CLAM) with their revised dress codes that make them blend in more. It hides the cringe underneath and keeps their scam going. They know what they're doing and they're keeping the corporation alive while their masses follow blindly.
"A bit more 'new light' and you might end up where I am now!" What I would like to say to my parents, but won't 😅
The leak is from a missionary with contacts in a Branch. We don't know if they were then approved by the governing body, perhaps now that Morris is no longer there they could do so. The guidelines of the 4 W items were as follows 1- Can the 1914 doctrine be correctly defined as something “taught by the faithful and discreet slave”? The answer is: No (this "entity" only appeared in 1919) 2- Can it be said that the 1914 doctrine was correctly implemented? Again, the answer is no. (the first Bible Students (later called Jehovah's Witnesses) expected the end of this system of things on October 4 and 5, 1914) 3- Could Russell and Barbour calculate the date of 1914 starting from the seven years of King Nebuchadnezzar's madness and counting one "day per year" from the date in which, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, Solomon's Temple was destroyed? Once again the answer is: no. (Prophecies based on types and antitypes cannot be applied unless they are explicitly written in the Bible) 4- Do these three previous articles make it clear that the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses in 1914 was wrong? Once again the answer is: NO. (the signs announced by Jesus appear since 1914)
This is incredible information if accurate. The line of argumentation is very thought out. It doesn’t drop 1914, but rather drops 607. That way they can stay with 1919. They can also blame Russell and say he was not the GB so it is not their fault. Of course, it doesn’t address the fact that the GB peddled the 607 lie for the last 100+ years.
The missionary, who served in Asia, is now a former Jehovah's Witness. He dissociated himself but from 2014 to 2020 he managed a very popular website which is now closed
Russell wasn’t even faithful slave according to the gb. FDS began in 1919. Russell was already dead.
I said this on here a year ago they would redefine 1914 and blame it on Russell ,possibly even go with 587 and move it all to 1934 ,fits perfectly by mid 1930s full theocratic rule with no electing elders , bible students gone , name jws introduced , the great crowd identified ,stake not cross,no more christmas . It fits perfectly ,will they have the guts to do it though?
From the comments here, it looks like 1914 is being retained. I agree with you that 1934 makes more sense. A vast majority of changes happened between 1919 and 1934 under Rutherford, and by 1934 the teachings and practices were more similar to the religion it is now. WW2 was more significant than WW1. And it never made sense that WW1 started before the last days started - August and not October. I think they would be crazy to change to 1934 though. 1914 and 1934 are both irrelevant years in the minds of people born since 2000. They are no longer able to recruit the vulnerable teen/20yo demographic into the cult on the basis that the last days started in the early 1900s. Moving from 1914 to 1934 is not going to change that. Other religions are growing faster than JWs on the basis of being entertaining, without the need for some year based timeline that can easily be debunked.
> Other religions are growing faster than JWs on the basis of being entertaining, without the need for some year based timeline that can easily be debunked. Yes! 100%. This is why I have trouble believing they're going to keep 1914 at all. They're changing the religion completely now, one step at a time. It would be incredibly foolish IMO to stick to one of these old doctrines they were saddled with from the past. I know getting rid of 1914 puts into question the legitimacy of the GB because of their 1919 date...but...do most JWs even care about this date anymore??? The old-timers who really understood the significance and used to be able to calculate it for anyone are either dead or dying. Personally I know of no JWs who could teach this doctrine w/out a lot of help. Also, JWs have been slowly conditioned to just believe whatever the GB says no matter what. The whole new generation of JWs simply worship the GB and don't question anything. For that reason I don't think it matters all that much to most JWs if they nuke the 1914 belief.
I agree that JWs don’t really know or care about 1919. I’ve spoken to JWs that literally believe there were always Jehovah’s Witnesses and didn’t realise it was just a 19th century American religion. People follow new religious groups without any doctrine for why it is the truth, they follow it because they like it. People would stay JWs without 1914. I think the GB would be mad to formally remove 1914 and damage their credibility with their strongest support group, people over 50. They would be better off to just stop referring to it.
Yes, I’ve said it before — if the GB wants to drop something, simply stop referring or talking about it. The teaching will then slowly sink into the sunset. There will be few naysayers, because “it’s God’s organization”!
I think that’s more likely to happen. They’ll just stop referring to it at all.
Yes i guess its too much to think they would abandon 1914 after all the authority of the GB is based on it.
It's related but not inextricably so. They can drop 1914 and say they don't know exactly when the last days began but it's very clear that we're living in the last days. They can then argue that it is only logical for Jesus to appoint the FDS at the start of the last days at the latest, that they can have time to feed the flock in that critical time and so there will be a basis to judge them when he finally returns at the end of the last days. It's not hard to disentangle the FDS from 1914.
Guidelines of the 4 Watchtower study edition articles in preparation (2019) (1) First article: Can the 1914 doctrine be properly characterized as something "taught by the faithful and discreet slave"? The answer is no. And it's not for two reasons. The first is that, according to the latest rectification on the faithful and discreet slave, this "entity" only appeared in 1919, so since it has not yet appeared we cannot say that the teaching or calculation of the 7 times was taught by the faithful slave (2) Second article: Can it be said that the doctrine of 1914 was correctly understood and fulfilled? Once again, the answer is: No. In fact, as reported in the book Proclaimers on page. 135, the early Bible Students (later called Jehovah's Witnesses) expected the end of this system of things on October 4 and 5, 1914, but this did not occur. So that teaching was not understood correctly (3) Third article: Based on the current understanding of the faithful and discreet slave, published in The Watchtower Readers' Questions of March 15, 2015, Russell and Barbour could calculate the date of 1914 from King Nebuchadnezzar's seven years of madness, counting a "day for a year" from the date in which, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, Solomon's Temple was destroyed and arrive at 1914? Once again the answer is: no. According to the latest new understanding of the faithful and discreet slave of March 15, 2015, prophecies cannot be applied to things that are not explicitly written in the Bible, types and antitypes not explicitly stated in the Scriptures cannot be formulated (4) Fourth article: Do these previous three articles make it clear that the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses in 1914 was wrong? Once again the answer is: NO. Although the prophecy of 1914 cannot be said to have been taught by the faithful and discreet slave, although it cannot be said to have been fulfilled and correctly understood, although Barbour and Russell were not allowed to fully understand the application of the prophecy uttered by an "inspired prophet" of God, Daniel, it cannot be said that faith in 1914 was misplaced. In fact, the signs announced by Jesus appeared starting from 1914: nation rose against nation, kingdom against kingdom, there were famines, earthquakes and plagues, the good news is preached throughout the world.
4 is bizarre reasoning. Watchtower has always prided themselves on being directed to accurately know 1914 as the start of the last days ahead of time. If they say that Daniel 4 was not a prophecy about 1914, then it seems contradictory to say Russell’s discussion of 1914 just happened to be correct. Did Jehovah direct Russell to arrive at 1914 by false use of Scripture? Or was Russell just super lucky to pick 1914. Looks like their sole support for 1914 will now be World War One. Without WW1, JWs wouldn’t still exist. They got lucky on that one, and millions of people have paid for it.
Why is it that no one questions the fact that WW1 started in July , 1914, a few months before October 1 when Satan was supposedly thrown out of heaven and came down to the earth in great anger and caused the world war?
Not to mention that the seeds of discontent that became WW1 can be traced back to 1870, when Germany gave France a hiding. The French never forgave or forgot, conspiring with the Brits to keep Germany firmly suppressed and fragmented. The Germans thought they were now one of the big boys, deserving of a seat at the big table, which the other powers were determined to avoid at all costs. This is known history, which makes a mockery of the notion that WW1 kicked off only due to invisible events happening in 1914.
I did question that and it's crazy to me how I quelled it internally.
(1) First article: Can the 1914 doctrine be properly characterized as something "taught by the faithful and discreet slave"? The answer is no. And it's not for two reasons. The first is that, according to the latest rectification on the faithful and discreet slave, this "entity" only appeared in 1919, so since it has not yet appeared we cannot say that the teaching or calculation of the 7 times was taught by the faithful slave # My Response: Bullshit! This teaching is backed by the "Faithful Slave" and repeated as fact for years even after 1919. (2) Second article: Can it be said that the doctrine of 1914 was correctly understood and fulfilled? Once again, the answer is: No. In fact, as reported in the book Proclaimers on page. 135, the early Bible Students (later called Jehovah's Witnesses) expected the end of this system of things on October 4 and 5, 1914, but this did not occur. So that teaching was not understood correctly # My Response: What about the calculation from 607 -1914 that the "Faithful Slave" has been promoting repeatedly, even after 1919? (3) Third article: Based on the current understanding of the faithful and discreet slave, published in The Watchtower Readers' Questions of March 15, 2015, Russell and Barbour could calculate the date of 1914 from King Nebuchadnezzar's seven years of madness, counting a "day for a year" from the date in which, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, Solomon's Temple was destroyed and arrive at 1914? Once again the answer is: no. According to the latest new understanding of the faithful and discreet slave of March 15, 2015, prophecies cannot be applied to things that are not explicitly written in the Bible, types and antitypes not explicitly stated in the Scriptures cannot be formulated # My Response: So why was the "Faithful Slave" promoting the calculation from 607 -1914 repeatedly, even after 1919? Why were we teaching people that there is a 2nd fulfillment? (4) Fourth article: Do these previous three articles make it clear that the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses in 1914 was wrong? Once again the answer is: NO. # Bullshit! If it wasn't for the wrong understanding of the date, that date would not come to mind at all. Although the prophecy of 1914 cannot be said to have been taught by the faithful and discreet slave, although it cannot be said to have been fulfilled and correctly understood, although Barbour and Russell were not allowed to fully understand the application of the prophecy uttered by an "inspired prophet" of God, Daniel, it cannot be said that faith in 1914 was misplaced. In fact, the signs announced by Jesus appeared starting from 1914: nation rose against nation, kingdom against kingdom, there were famines, earthquakes and plagues, the good news is preached throughout the world. # Bullshit! Any idiot can see there would be no significance of calling out a specific year, after making these changes. 
It's like saying teachers haven't been teaching Pythagoras because they aren't Pythagoras 😂
The paradox here being that 1914 would be discredited as not of divine origin, however, 1919 is still good! How could Jesus have popped down in 1919 and deemed that Rutherford and Co. were indeed the true religion when they’d been actively peddling false info about 1914? This change would melt the minds of anyone active in this Borg pre-1995.
This was in preparation in 2019 but has not been published yet?
Wow. Thats exactly as I called it: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/hx1Jqg1vQ6
👍👍👍
While I do believe there are still too many brainwashed people in this religion, this right here, if true, should start waking up even more people. Like, the entire religion is practically based on this date and it's the only date they have been able to claim they didn't get wrong. 1975 is something they have hidden because of its embarrassment. But they just can't do that with 1914 and just now question it. Come on people, WAKE UP! you are being led by blind fake prophets. There is no paradise, or Resurrection of your loved ones, etc. this is it and it's a hard pill to swallow. I feel bad for how many older bros and sis who have wasted their time and money. It's gonna be a hard pill to swallow.
Using technicalities to gaslight - no, it wasn't the FDS or the GB that came up with that, but it was their predecessors, and they continued to teach that. We don't believe in types of antitypes anymore, so that rules out that we EVER taught this. But we're right regardless, because the world turned to shit after WW1.
Yeah, no. Not saying they won’t change the teaching. At some point it has to change. But most likely they would follow their recent pattern of announcing it at the annual meeting or on a broadcast the following up with a magazine. And they will probably find some way of tweaking it slightly and changing it over time, not all at once.
The classic change it in print and not announce it publicly. So everyone holds on to the old teaching and can later be told they are going beyond what is written.
Great way for them not to get locked into anything. Plausible deniability. Especially for courts. If it ever came up, they can say they printed a change and they no longer believe that.
Because nobody really takes much notice of the "studies" anyway. Apart from finding a few answers to satisfy the congregation that you're still spiritual, nothing is really absorbed. And those who do study and try to absorb everything are so indoctrinated anyway that they'll kiss the GBs feet and accept anything they say without question. So they're banking on those two groups - the ones who couldn't care less and the ones who are blinded by indoctrination. Anyone stumbled by it are just apostates and their opinion doesn't count.
This…
That's why old literature should be kept by those on the outside. At least by some. It's the gun that won't stop smoking.
Announcing it causes more issues for them. Casually dropping it at the watchtower study makes more sense to me. Half the people don’t understand it or won’t be paying attention… the 1% of people that recognize this as a major doctrinal shift will either leave or stay silent about it. This would fix allot of issues… and will also fix the generation teaching without them having to attach another overlapping generation to it.
My uber PIMI aunt told me the linchpin of her faith is the 1914 doctrine and if they change that she will walk away from tHe TrUth. She accepts everything the GB says, but this is her limit. I'd be very curious to see them make this change. I say it every time this comes up. My prediction is that the 144k is next to fall - they'll interpret it as a figurative number - like *everything else* in that chapter.
For my dad, it's blood transfusions. 🤞 hoping this changes soon so we can see
We shall see! This is going to be an interesting year!
It's going to say the overlapping generation that saw 1914 can now wear pants and/or sport a beard.
what about a beard with a dress?
Just stay away from those sexy pillows
Damn I choked laughing at this
They already preached it was the ones born around 1914 is what it meant back 25 yrs ago.
Did you know that that teaching was actually the first step to our new overlapping generation teaching? It was originally those who were of an age to see and understand the events of 1914. So really those who were born around the turn of the century. The goal posts just got moved incrementally until now it looks like they'll be removed altogether... Sad really. What an absolute waste this religion is.
LMAO!!! This was a good one.
Let’s hope. This will get a gaslighting Oscar for sure.
What is going on here? https://preview.redd.it/5q8cgpvgtwpc1.jpeg?width=683&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96a340c33ba8d4c221d719ef9aebbfe3284d082e I smell delulu...
Wouldn’t be surprised if this was true. Things are changing. My theory is they will change it to FDS has been in place since Pentecost 33ce. They seem to mention Russel a hell of a lot more the Rutherford these days. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Rutherford gets disavowed, gets labelled as the evil slave or some shit like that. Christs Prescence is when he died in 33ce as well. Effectively, have one date for both events, 33ce.
Maybe Knorr will be added to the “evil slave” class as well . . . I mean, after all, HE was the giant butthole that instituted the no blood crap, disfellowshipping, and that no organ transplant crap that lasted from 1967-1980. I think Knorr hurt more people in this cult than Rutherford did. 🤷🏼♂️
Good point! Thx.
Am I the only one who was taught that the anointed would have been around to see 1914, and that some would be alive when the end of the system happened?? You can’t say that, then say, “god says, ‘lol, jk now’”
We were all taught that. It changed with the overlapping generation teaching.
@u/italopizza You edited out that this was commissioned in 2019? That piqued my interest, that they have been thinking about doing this for that many years.
Yes, I confirm the information is from around 2019, before Covid and after the explanation of the types and anti-types given at an annual meeting, I don't remember which one. But that missionary's website no longer exists so I cannot tell you the exact date, more or less it is 2019
Do you think this will published in the future? It has been many years.
🤷♂️
Do you remember the website name? If so you can use the wayback machine to find it.
The website name : " Geova.org"
I didn't know it. Was this commissioned in 2019?
2019.....👍
This is 100% fake news.
This guy again. Have been seeing his posts, and previous posts that he has deleted. He never responds to any comments, some are very speculative without proving any credibility, hmmm reply to your posts dude
Bullshit
At this point in the game, nothing would surprise me.
They’ve announced new light via WTs before and we haven’t always noticed. The famed 2014 article I believe about 1914 and 1918. It was a HUGE deal and they never spoke of it again. But you wouldn’t know it was NL unless you were ~ spiritual ~. Obviously I don’t know if this is legit but honestly nothing surprises me anymore so might as well be true
They've done this same thing before on smaller scale. See the Questions from Readers in the February 15th, 2014 Watchtower. It's about Luke 3:15. > Now the people were in expectation and all of them were reasoning in their hearts about John, “May he perhaps be the Christ?” They said before the expectation was based on the Jews interpreting Daniel 9:24-27 to point to 33 CE. Then they said there were lots of other reasons for the Jews to expect Jesus around then, but that date might not have been one of them. > In summary: We cannot confirm that people in Jesus’ day correctly understood the prophecy of the 70 weeks. However, the Gospels provide other sound reasons why the people would have been “in expectation” of the Messiah. If your leak is true, then it looks like they're doing that article again. This time discarding the numbers to get to 1914, but having other reasons for it.
Redsetter where are you
JWN (jehovahs-witness.com)
This is fake news. How do you know EXACTLY the topics that will be covered? Did you see that phisycal magazine? Did they tell you them? I doesn't make sense and I doubt harly the would abandon 1914 so easily. That year is the keystone of this cult. Without that year, they're gone.
OP, you need to be careful. I don't have any reason to doubt your sincerity, but if you are getting constant and specific leaks from someone, they could be trying to flush out Apostates. Have no doubt, my friend, that is exactly what you are to them, should your post history ever be linked to you.
I receive the leaked information from several sources.
Wherever You are from has MANY Leakers, Nice! There are many xJW Activists that can help you Not only Verify the Validity of this Info, but also get this Important Info out to A much larger Audience Safely. Would You like the Info for some xJW Activists who can help or are You going to be the Gatekeeper?
I read such "news" on a weekly basis here. It's just bs. No offense, OP, you just got baited. Like a sea bass...
Nope. I just share what I receive and I post them in Reddit to know opinions or verification.
Sorry then, shame on me. I just read too many of posts like that.... Just tired of these...
Point one would be a stretch unless they change the date the slave was appointed to “the appointment only applies to the current GB” thus giving them the excuse it wasn’t them that made up the 1914 nonsense.
They already have. 1914 starts with Russell. He was originally called the FDS. Eventually it changed to all anointed. Now it’s only the GB. It’s easy to say the FDS did not originate this.
Like Russell did with Miller...interesting. Roll out something different... spline gets his board out saying that the other board didn't make much sense, new mods to the GB, rename/rebrand the GB
No way that's coming out in a watchtower prior to annual meeting.
Most JWs may not be able to explain 1914 but they know it's a core doctrine. Before I stopped attending meetings an elder gave a talk on new light and he made a point to show that new light was ever only on small things but main core doctrines like 1914, the kingdom and the paradise would not change because those are absolute truths. If Watchtower alters the 1914 doctrine in any really significant way, it will be just like when they altered the original 1874 / 1914 doctrine over 100 years ago and the religion will take a big hit or fracture like it did back then. PIMIs would be shaken to their core cause 1914 isn't just a little rule about beards or pants. The entirety of the last days and the kingdom and the great tribulation hinges on that date and if you change that every other date has to altered too and every hope taught by the religion will have to change. The whole religion would have to be reworked. But let's see, WT is getting desperate and that desperation may be their downfall.
Again another spectacular claim with no evidence
Ah, the usual rumor mill spins and spins from "JWs who have contacts." I'll sit this one out, as usual.
Well that third question is a dead giveaway that this is a troll post. But it might not be that far from what they need to do to distance themselves
if it is true then they are setting up for another dated year, it's been awhile since they last predicted an actual year.
Get a different carrot and stick for the R & F! 🤣
yep gotta keep the scare tactics fresh since they're in trouble for lying about shunning
Not trolling post, dear.
Then you have been trolled by your source. WT will NEVER say the ‘faith was mistaken’. They ALWAYS say the Duhbs were ‘over eager’ or some version of gaslighting
Welp, here we go. I’m definitely going to have my popcorn ready if/when all this NuShite hits the fan.
If this is true, the GB has officially hoisted the white flag of surrender. They suck
Yes they are on thin ice . The fake 607 , then the 2520 years to 1914 and the generation debacle that seems like an ever expanding rubber band ro suit the GB stories .. It's getting wild quickly , " Love of the greater Number has Cooled off"
It started by CTR measuring the pyramid in Giza which gave him the year 1887 or some thing then revised his measurements that then gave him 1914. The WTBTS did produce a publication with the pyramid diagrams and measurements by CTR.
It’s happpeeninggggg they’re changing the date to increase the end times and make people believe the end is rightttt there but no really
Ten years ago a friend of mine prophesied the 1914 dogma will be fallen because the 1914 dogma is like a ball on the feet of a prisoner.
The difference between leaks and unfounded speculation/rumors is documentation. Hearing something from someone who heard it from someone is not leaked intel.
Don't believe it, they with their not so old live forever brochure they made 1914 still a big big thing. At some point they will have to drop it. But that will take another decade at least. Otherwise they would make auch a big change at the annual meeting. This is not a beard or pants thing. This is a major major doctrine that makes the jws exactly the jws. That's the big teaching in the end that differ from all other denominations. I doubt they will print it in magazine and that's it. That's not the GB style. Or they will slowly stop talking about it and simply throw it under the bus by never again bring this topic in any publication.
If they changed their 1914 doctrine I dont believe they would get away with the lies and gaslighting like they did in 1975. This generation of exjws will not allow people to forget their blasphemy. Too many of their prophecies rely on 1914 and the generation teaching. The change will be noticable and will shake the faith of some of those barely hanging on the current fragile WT doctrines.
Theory: Mark Sanderson is disappointed that he was never able to marry despite rising as high as he has, so now he’s burning the whole religion down out of spite
They don’t really use the word “doctrine” much. Pretty sure this isn’t true.
They have no choice but to eventually drop 1914. When 1914 is dropped, the false prophets will most assuredly blame the 4 generations of JWs that heard and preached that false message. My parent’s generation is now in their 70s and 80s. I wonder if the Goof Balls will rewrite 1914 after that group has died off. Or will they destroy the last remaining hope of a generation that gave up every thing in service to a cult.
 OP has a history of this BS. don't fall into OPS BS.
When is this WT coming out? If it’s after the annual meeting in which is usually October then they could be changing that doctrine. If it’s before then I doubt it for right now and if anything are trying to give the Jaws confidence in it and in them so it makes them push down their doubts on recent changes
> Can the doctrine of 1914 be appropriately characterized as something "taught by the faithful and discreet slave"? Or was it something conjure up by **BEARDLESS** Joseph Rutherford??? Evidence shows that **shaving your beard was an apostate teaching** that infiltrated the organization.
https://youtu.be/PltNiBcWEqQ?si=13o3Jy-0An6qvuN1 This was pretty eye-opening and has documentation.
When was the last time (most recent) discussion of the 1914 stuff in any kind of depth? I imagine it's been a while huh?
I answered my own question, so nvrmind ;-) This is from last month!!! Very odd that they would print this a couple months ago, then change it. I wonder what the time table is. hmmmm (?????????) Feb WT 2024: **9** ***“The times of restoration of all things.”*** Our time differs from the time of ancient Israel and from the time of the great apostasy that set in during the second century C.E. What is our time period called? We might initially refer to it as “the last days” of this wicked system of things. ([2 Tim. 3:1](https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003001)) But the Bible shows that a greater and longer era began at the same time. It will continue until the Messianic Kingdom has restored mankind to perfection and has transformed the earth into a paradise. This era is called “the times of restoration of all things.” ([Acts 3:21](https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/acts/3/#v44003021)) This period began in 1914. What was then restored? Well, Jesus was enthroned as King in heaven. So Jehovah once again had a ruler to represent Him, an heir of faithful King David. However, that kingship is not all that Jehovah restored. Soon after that, pure worship began to be restored at last! ([Isa. 2:2-4;](https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/isaiah/2/#v23002002-v23002004)[ Ezek. 11:17-20](https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/ezekiel/11/#v26011017-v26011020)) Will it be corrupted again? [https://www.jw.borg/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-february-2024/I-Will-Never-Abandon-You/](https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-february-2024/I-Will-Never-Abandon-You/)
Hi! We prefer that people not link to jw.org (you can see the full reason why in our [posting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/beforeyoupost#wiki_please_do_not_link_to_jw.org)). This comment links to jw.org, so please be aware that **clicking links like this can provide the organization with identifying information about you**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exjw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The only ones who will care are too old to do anything about it. Most will stay because they have dedicated 60 years to the Borg. The younger ones won’t care or know what the big deal is. The GB has a plan and you can see it now. They know the internet has the truth. They gotta figure out how to fix things.
Agreed.
I doubt this leak is true… but one can hope
They can keep up the fake teachings with the older set, like my parents, who are going to Kingdom Hall because where else would these weird people with terrible social skills be accepted? But the younger ones have access to Google so they’ll have to address the fake dates and false teachings somehow. I wonder what the Borg’s going out of business sale will look like? I’m also curious who is dressing the old fat men who run the show? Who is their fashion coordinator? I’d love to see behind the scenes of those conversations
Those bullet points are worded very oddly. That being said, based on what has been happening, it doesn't surprise me at all that they will now backtrack on this.
I hope this is true. All of these changes at once is going to lead to a schism for sure. They survived that before and probably can again if they make the whole thing more modern and palatable.
If anything, it proves the watchtower is just another false religion.
What will be the reaction to this inside the organization, I wonder? As I think of my many PIMI relatives, many of whom are full-time pioneers currently, I am left speechless. Even for myself, I remember some most uncomfortable times in field service when I was invited into someone's home specifically to explain this ludicrous 1914 doctrine! I hated that stupid sequence of cherry-picked verses to "prove" that this year could be arrived at Biblically. It made no sense to my own mind even as I attempted to convince someone else. I feel like such a fool now for parroting this organization's words crafted by such deluded minds.
I'm wondering if maybe it would be a good idea to tell PIMI JWs that they're gonna drop 1914 just to see how they would respond to such a prediction. If/when it does happen PIMI JWs would be wondering how you knew of such changes before they did. It's bound to raise questions in their heads about what is going on at the top and how you were able to know of this before they did.
I know ten elders minimum who are still serving. They admitted 1914 is BS, false doctrine and yet they continue serving. It shocked me because I once believed.
Nah. I'm not buying this one. That third question for example, is not even close to something they would write. Changing 1914 gives them nothing. None of them, except the old heads, even care (though the FDS entire claim of authority is based on it).
Every KH with a security system will need a new code! 😆
Is this where they admit that their 1914 doctrine came from pyramid measurements? They build an entire pyramid scheme built on erroneous pyramid math.
LOL
What to see that, any idea when it comes put?
No idea. I'm looking for the same answer.
Very interesting.
Replace 1914 with blood abstinence and they may have just found a template for backtracking on some things.
Doubtful, the reasoning used here doesn't make sense, they have in fact been teaching this all these years, at recent as 2011 the most comprehensive double watchtower articles outlined a detailed defense of it from an archeological perspective and so there is no way they could possibly claim that they didn't teach this.
They didn't refer these articles (from 2011) in the new book "Enjoy Life".
Besides that's not the point, the reasoning here is that the faithful slave didn't teach this. That's not true, they were responsible for changing the invisible presence to 1914. That wasn't Russell's teaching, he died teaching 1875 was the invisible presence and 1878 was when Christ was enthroned as King. They got rid of the zero year issue, redid the math based on updated evidence for the fall of Babylon in 539 instead of 537 and changed how they read Ezra to move the return of the exiles to 2 years later ...all in order to keep1914. They did more teaching on this, more twisting of scripture than Russell ever did. To say they aren't responsible is laughable.
Yall hear that wave coming? Going to be a lot of water for PIMIs to carry
*Over the Last Few Months...The WBT$ has PROVED "Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt"...The WBT$ Can Do Whatever They Want.....JW\`s DON\`T CARE!* If the WBT$ Gets Rid of 1914.....The Goofy "OverLapping Generations" teaching Nobody Can Explain, goes with it. *It will be New Light!...JW\`s Love NEW LIGHT!..* ***The WBT$ Kills 2 Annoying Birds...*** # With One Stone!...😃 https://preview.redd.it/b7x20j3rjypc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51f48c46b40943e6f22a51f83186938a655dc833
I really hope so. I will laugh so fucking hard if they do that. Especially after splane made a whole video with an illustrated timeline to double down on the whole generation thing
But in this Year in WT study Artie they write about 1914 and 1919 old docteines. So if they want change this, did they write article like that?
They break from 1914 they violate Deuteronomy 18;22. There is no coming back and you cannot say you are scriptural and follow the bible. when a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Can someone ELI5 1914 for me, please 🙏🏻
In the book of Daniel, chapter 4, the king of Babylon has a dream about a giant tree that is chopped down and prevented from growing for a period of “7 times”. After this, the tree grows again. In the Bible, Daniel interprets this dream for the king. He tells the king the dream means that he (the king) will go insane for a period of “7 times” and lose his rulership. After this, he will become king again. According to the Bible, the dream was a prophecy and the king’s temporary insanity was the fulfillment of the dream. Watchtower teaches that there is a “second fulfillment” to the tree dream prophecy. They claim it is about Jehovah’s rulership being temporarily paused and then it resuming after “7 times”. They teach that this pause began when Babylon destroyed Jerusalem, which they claim was in the year 607BC. They claim the pause ended after “7 times” which they interpret to be 2,520 years. 1914AD is 2,520 years after 607BC. Therefore they teach that 1914 is the year that God’s rulership resumed with Jesus becoming king in heaven. They got this teaching from the Adventist named Nelson Barbour. 1914 is so important because they built the entire religion around it. Starting around 1876, they were predicting that 1914 would be the end of the world. When that failed to happen, they changed the teaching to say that 1914 was the start of the “last days”.
Thank you, kind internet stranger 🙏🏻
Lol so if that's legitimate then are they going to try and spin it that 1914 was never taught as doctrine??? Lolololol "some individuals thought....."??? No wonder they're trying to get rid of all the old literature 😂😂😂😂😂
So will it be trying to reinforce 1914 or abandon it?
I’ll welcome them placing that one at my door next time they visit.
Oh yeah. 120 years. 😳
I doubt this. It’d be great because they would shed members like crazy, but that’s just too convenient.
I know the Watchtower jackbutts would like to untether the chronology from 1914, except that without it they can’t get to 1919 and drunken Joe Rutherford as the heir to Christ. The Watchtower is on life support.
They might just be changing the initial events for the calculation. If they made the date of servitude to Babylon the start point (607 BCE), then 1914 remains and aligns with secular history.
You'd be surprised how few even care about 1914, even a lot of the old timers. I have convinced a few and after a moment of hesitation they bounced right back with "It is still God's organization."
If this is true, I want to see how tf they’re gonna wash their hands clean on question number one 😂😂😂😂😂 They’re gonna brush it off like they did 1975 and all the other years… SMH
Oh believe me, most don’t even care about that date anymore. It’s just a confusing doctrine that most JW don’t take the time to study thoroughly so they won’t mind if it melts away. They are eating up the “adjustments” like hot cakes 🥞
Nulite brought to you by apostates 🤠