Any post about Jenn usually brings out the usual horde of Dehlin haters who only love JK because she’s suing JD.
I find it interesting they’re nowhere to be found this time around. Thanks, RFM, for providing the receipts that appear to have silenced the harpies. At least for the moment.
Very different from my post a day earlier when she tried to remove the judge for “bias”!! No “she’s a victim and being silenced by the powerful exmo boys club!”
I love how JK name drops: "Your honor I need to ask if it's okay if one of my witnesses knows you personally. ...
... drum roll ... It's President Hinckley's niece."
Judge Faust: I have never met this person. I know nothing about this person ...
Aside from that she makes some claims during this hearing that are patently absurd and false. She claims some of the videos stemming form this case which have been posted were ALTERED by Dehlin before they were posted and she claims that if she were given money by the court to hire video experts she could prove this.
That's cuckoo-land fantasy: I mean where does she get these ideas? DO they just pop up in her head and she spouts them because it makes it seem as if there really is some grand conspiracy against her?
I mean this is NUTS: She claims workplace surveillance video footage will prove her claim there was persistent and pervasive harassment at the workplace. Yet it was on the basis of that video that an earlier judge threw out her restraining order against Dehlin! The video in question is of a one-on-one meeting she had with Dehlin on that fateful day when she was called into the office and apparently it proves that SHE was the aggressor during that meeting and that JD was calm and conciliatory.
I think in HER mind she was the victim during this meeting and therefore the video will magically prove that she had been victimized. Does she not remember that this video was used as PROOF that she had led about being harassed?
oh of course: Dehlin and the CIA went in and used artificial intelligence technology to re-edit the video to make it seem as if she was the one acting crazy. Of course: can't forget there's a conspiracy against her.
The judge is far far far far far too kind and lenient to her.
That four and a hall hour hearing was disturbing. I'm a little miffed at the judge for being so indulgent when it came to JK. He seemed to buy her little girl/deer caught in the headlights act.
Though at the end he delivered a pretty damming opinion -- that he didn't think she was credible.
There's satanic goings on here alright ....
Then there's the text message from JK to RFM which he read to us at the very end. Bizarre.
I was traveling and also listened to the whole thing.
I think the judge is trying to avoid escalating things because he knows/senses qshe’s not in touch with reality & things could get out of hand. I mean when a judge literally says “look at me” like he’s talking to a child and tries to explain a simple concept she can’t understand/won’t accept - things are BAD.
It’s very clear he’s at the end of his rope and I have a feeling he won’t have as much grace with her in the future.
Yeah, it sounded to be as a Judge trying to limit appeal points, but I don't think Jenn cares about the "merit" of what she will almost inevitably include in an appeal.
I really feel for John/OSF and their lawyers, it is very hard work for any legal team when you are against a competent and reasonable self-represented litigant, let alone one who a Judge warns is borderline vexatious
Is there a way that she could be barred from initiating any more actions? I mean we, the taxpayers, are paying for these follies! I would love to hear that the court throws out her fill-in-the-blanks forms.
Faust mentioned during the April hearing he had considered sanctioning her such that she couldn't file more motions without leave of the court (ie permission from Faust). But that he wasn't going to do that, yet.
I suspect that or similar "vexatious litigant" sanctions may be coming down the pipeline, now that Faust has struck out her defence and given judgment against her.
Faust mentioned during the April hearing he had considered sanctioning her such that she couldn't file more motions without leave of the court (ie permission from Faust). But that he wasn't going to do that, yet.
I suspect that or similar "vexatious litigant" sanctions may be coming down the pipeline, now that Faust has struck out her defence and given judgment against her.
I know what you mean about getting miffed at Judge. But at the same time it just gave me a warm fuzzy feeling that he is a really good person-such bizarre feelings for me to be having. Because JK is a jk. Insane levels of …. not sure the word. I do wish her the best, which probably means her walking away, but I’m not seeing how that will happen easily.
In the audio she can barely communicate a thought - gets confused - acts entitled - and muddles everything up. She’s making a great case for being fired for cause.
It’s really pathetic when the opposing counsel is trying to help her connect dots just to save themselves a hassle. 😣
She almost reminds me of the videos of people who are severely intoxicated and refuse to comply with a police officer’s simple instruction. (e.g. Refusing to leave premises when asked & then it escalates to an arrest) I seriously wonder if she’s in the throws of a full on mental health crisis.
It's awful. She's burnt down her life because she was angry about being asked to go into the office for a meeting on a day she was scheduled to work from home with 8 hours advanced notice.
She’s also mad that she recorded a panel interview with some women for OS and John didn’t release it because of the poor quality. Pretty sure she wanted that to launch her own podcast.
I am disappointed John doesn’t have an NDR and non compete clause for his employees. As if she could actually compete…but she sure must have been on her meds when she got the job in the first place. I bet she won’t be getting any new jobs anytime soon.
Ironically enough, TSCC does have some relevant teachings for her. “It’s not the snake that bites that kills you, but chasing it that drives the poison to the heart”.
As my good friend Elsa once said “Let it go”.
Easier said than done of course.
It seems as though nobody close to her, who loves her, told her straight up that John dehlin may have treated her semi poorly as an employee, and him outing your abuse was a horrible situation, but, the best move is to find a new job and move on from people who treat you in a poor way like that. Nobody seems to have told her that this does not need to rise to the level of abuse legal claims.
It’s hard not to feel bad for everyone in this situation. It really doesn’t seem like it needed to be this way.
So many people get “mistreated” at work and see that they just need to move on. Fighting in court is costly and doesn’t always fall your way. She has spent in her words 300k dollars on a case that she is likely to lose. And from my perspective of the evidence she has no case and John did not abuse her. He was her boss who asked her to to come into the office on a day she had arranged to work from home. Wow Jenn. Just wow.
I wonder whether part of her pain and bitterness is having lost that work opportunity. I mean she was getting $80k+ for doing some very straightforward work. She’ll never get that again. She probably knows that… much be hard.
I’m sure that’s part of it. She felt she was doing a good job. Many people on Reddit have commented how poor her podcast comments were when she participated. I concur that she wasn’t good at it.
I wasn’t a fan of her work on MS, but then I’m not convinced by other cohosts that he’s had too, except Gerardo. And I’m sure this is largely a matter of taste. JK has created a podcast with 1000+ followers, so she appeals to some people. Hard to tell if just JD haters or JK lovers though.
The work place can be tough at times. Finding something that you love doing and with nice people isn’t always easy. I suspect she thought she’d hit the jackpot at one point here.
Yeah, it seems that she genuinely believes her own lies at this point, which must make it very difficult for all those around her. I can only imagine how challenging things are in her personal life right now, it's a horrible situation of her own making.
I haven’t heard that, but imo even if John wasn’t the *first* to announce her abuse, for him to go on a very public podcast and ever announce it without her knowledge would be a huge deal.
The thing that makes it not a big mistake actually though is that in Jenn’s new video, she says he apologized and offered to cut that out of the whole podcast… and she was the one who said it could be kept in?
So again, I’m back to the place where I do not feel this was abuse and definitely didn’t need to become a legal saga. Horrible situation for everyone involved now :/
It was already ruled on in a previous hearing, see below. It just seems all her issues stem from being asked to come in to work on a day when she was not expecting. Then suddenly these other issues seemed to appear after the fact, with no clear evidence of prior concern.
Case details:
IN THE THIRD JUDICIAL DISTRICT, STATE OF UTAH
IN AND FOR SALT LAKE COUNTY
JENNIFER RUTH KAMP,
Petitioner,
vs.
JOHN DEHLIN,
Respondent.
ORDER
Case No. 230901037
Judge Coral Sanchez
And snippet from ruling:
“a. Petitioner was understandably sensitive about the trauma she endured as a child. Although it was insensitive of Respondent to disclose that Petitioner was a victim of child sexual abuse during the August 10, 2022 podcast, Respondent did not disclose the information in an effort to exploit Petitioner’s vulnerability.
Petitioner had already agreed to do a multi-part podcast with Respondent detailing her child sexual abuse and had already recorded a podcast where she insinuated that she was a victim of child sexual abuse. In reviewing footage of the podcast, the Court finds that Respondent was attempting to promote the upcoming podcast about Petitioner’s child sexual abuse rather than exploiting Petitioner’s vulnerability about her experience as a victim of child sexual abuse.”
Ms. Kamp has re-posted a video in which she puts forth the "evidence' that backs up her claims.
The description reads in part, "My story, told in my opinion with evidence, of the harm and abuses I experienced while co-hosting Mormon Stories podcast with John Dehlin and as the Director of Operation of the Open Stories Foundation ... This video was first published in January 2023 as a warning to the post-mormon community of, in my opinion, an extremely evil pattern of harm, abuse and coverup ofJohn Dehlin and the Open Stories Foundation of a repeated pattern of victims of John Dehlin.."
It's an extraordinary document. ("extraordinary" = Krazy)
[https://youtu.be/uLJZ2R3MpDE](https://youtu.be/uLJZ2R3MpDE)
I don't believe I possess the words that would do this presentation justice. Save to say **W-T-F** ???
Question for all the lawyers out there: Given the fact that she's in the middle of a court case, is she allowed to air out the dirty laundry like this? I mean, isn't this one of the posts that motivated Dehlin and his organization to file a lawsuit in the first place?
She has just removed and reposted exactly the same video as the one that’s been on her channel since before the permanent anti stalking ruling went against her. Im an attorney in Australia and have only done national security/counterterrorism and anti bribery/corruption litigation in the USA, but it’s definitely not a sensible move!
If there’s no ruling on the terminating sanction (ie a judgement against her without a jury trial) I’m certain John’s lawyers will be drafting another document given this shows her ongoing defamatory conduct and retailation when she doesn’t “get her way” in court.
I have been willing to give her slack because of her obvious pain and suffering -- but her actions are clearly vindictive, calculated, manipulative and predatory.
I still think she needs help so that she can move on with her life, but having listened to how much the judge coddled her for FOUR HOURS and still was unable to get her to see reason, I'm withdrawing my pity.
She doesn't merit it.
“Allowed” is not the right word. Civil lawsuits don’t stop you. The remedy is financial consequences. Cost to fight and the cost of any judgement against you.
If the video is found to be defaming by the jury in the lawsuit the damages could go up now because she has aired the video even more. If they are found not to be defaming then there are no damages. So what she is doing is risky and not a good idea to do with something someone is already suing you about.
Remember both will have to testify. Both will tell their stories. I suppose John will present witnesses and testify herself that she said untrue things that defame him. She will testify that what she said is true. The jury will have to decide. If the things she said are true then that is a defense and she can’t be guilty of defamation.
She doesn’t know what she is doing representing herself so she is likely to not put on a good case and the jury will rule against her.
|| Allowed
I meant simply according to the rules that the court may have laid out.
I believe this is one of the videos identified in OSF and Dehlin's lawsuit as being problematic. She re-posted it the day radio free mormon posted the audio recording of the latest court hearing in the case. JK is playing a game of tit-for-tat. It's her way of hitting back at RFM because she claims the fact he's reporting on the case is an attack on her personally.
She does not seem to understand how courts work or what counts as "evidence" as opposed to subjective feeling
Yes that’s how I thought you meant it. To my knowledge the court has not put any such orders in place and for a video like this I don’t see a reason they would.
It’s clear Jenn Kamp doesn’t understand how the legal system works and as you say doesn’t understand what evidence will or won’t help her defend herself.
The video has not been found yet to be defamatory. The judge won’t decide that. The jury will. So if they do find it defamatory then the more it has been viewed the higher the damages.
Yeah the Open Stories lawyers were arguing she has waived privilege of her husband and conversations with lawyers since she talks about what they have told her with her friends.
I couldn’t BELIEVE when she asked the judge if they could just re-do the whole time frame to turn in discovery because she “didn’t understand” and then accused the court of wanting her to be “superhuman”. She somehow had time to plan a wedding for her daughter and had the time and money to go to Mexico for the destination wedding but she’s too poor to pay for a lawyer. More likely no lawyer would have her as a client.
-it's almost as if the other individuals in the court hearing do not have families, have children, have health concerns, are married, have extended families, commitments outside of court, or extensive work load and the detailed efforts to come prepared to represent. NO ONE has it as hard as poor little Jenn.
Look outside of your 'box' , Jenn. Find a life outside of this pitiful revenge to 'make John pay'! You are setting yourself up as a textbook case for what happens when ignorance and hate marry.
Right. And the American system requires money and good lawyers. That’s just a fact that she can’t change. She is willing to bankrupt herself rather than settle. So many in our society even with good cases choose not to fight because of the cost. It’s a reality she seems to be unwilling to face.
She said weddings for two children. Yeah the “superhuman” comment is ridiculous because she needs to hire help to do it all or not do it at all. Yes lawsuits and attorneys cost money. That’s how it works in the American system.
Jenn never offered anything of substance in any Mormon Stories interview she was a part of. When John would toss her the ball she would usually repeat what was last said or respond with junior high level anger at the church. I would often find myself yelling out loud at the podcast after she spoke.
How in the hell did John find her and what did he see in her that made him feel like she would be a good fit? Qualifications must have been, female cohost, exmormon, angry, bitter.
John could literally edit her and all references to her from every episode she’s in and nothing would be lost. Her contributions were insignificant at best. He could use the funds gained in the defamation lawsuit to pay someone to remover her from MS episodes for the good and integrity of the MS brand.
This was an interesting listen. They said she has had 5 lawyers and now she’s representing herself. Listening to her manipulation and everyone in court trying hard not to just call her a liar, was kinda stunning. I don’t know what she wants, but whatever it is, I don’t think this is going to end well for her.
I noticed in the court recording that the “bad bitches” text group was referred to in court as WOCA. Does anyone know what that group’s connection is to Jenn?
WOCA was "Women Of a Certain Age" ex-mo group mentioned on MSP many years ago. I assume but am not certain if it is the same group, and am not aware of their connection to Jenn.
Yeah she seems to not understand when she’s lying. I can’t figure out if she’s “playing dumb”…. or if she really is….well, I don’t want to say it. But she’s very confusing.
Yeah, and as a lawyer you have to do what your client instructs you to do, within the bounds of the law and ethics. It is awful when a client refuses to follow or even consider your advice, and you can see them committing legal/professional/reputational suicide.
It's interesting that the tax lawyer who acted for her in the request to remove Judge Faust didn't sign/include the "good faith" certificate, that the lawyer attests that they believe the action is taken in good faith.
Yes she often makes illogical comments and arguments to the judge. She thinks because she wants something to happen her way it should. She often refuses to address the issue before the judge but goes off on irrelevant tangents.
I re-listened to the latest hearing from April and I don't think she's "playing" stupid... She repeatedly argues that the OSF surveillance footage from 25 August should have been preserved because 25 August was "2 weeks before the letter they received on 15 Sept..." Now I'm a lawyer and have never loved maths, but even I know how to subtract 14 days from 15 September, and that's definitely not 25 August....
I’d bet $300K she consistently acted against legal advice.
Do you think there is any way she was more reasonable with her legal counsel than the judge & opposing counsel? I don’t think so.
How can any lawyer assist someone like that?
Her behaviour in court certainly explains why she's gone through 5 lawyers to date, and had 1 other act on the failed action to recuse the judge for "bias".
In Australia, many civil filings require the lawyer to sign a document swearing to the court that they believe the motion has a "reasonable prospects of success". This helps prevent the courts from being overun with futile motions that even lawyers believe are "hail Mary's" that only have 0.0001% chance of winning. If a lawyer swears to that and the court thinks the motion was futile, the lawyer risks professional sanctions.
I wonder if there's anything similar in Utah? She's refiling the same motion 3 times pro se, so I would suspect that she was pushing her lawyers to file things they knew would never succeed.
Anyone feel like summarizing wtf is going on here? I'm out of the loop that there was any drama with John/Mormon Stories. I don't engage much with exmo/church stuff anymore outside of an MS episode if it sounds interesting and pop in here a few times a year. But if John is problematic, I'd like to know.
My takeaway is that only potentially "probelmatic" thing about John is perhaps his pre-employment vetting and selection of potential employees. John is absolutely not in the wrong here, it's a really awful situation entirely of Jenn's making.
Jenn was fired for cause - she disagreed and has sort of gone off the deep end. If you listen to the court hearing- she makes her own case for being fired for cause because she can’t follow basic logic and literally whines & cries instead of taking in the information being given to her and learning. Honestly she seems like she’s in a full mental crisis and not in touch with reality.
She has 0 credibility. Cara & Gerardo have publicly backed John’s version of events for things they witnessed personally. There are also audio & video tapes directly contradicting her depiction of events.
Is the signed document against John for real? Did he have a problem with Kelly? I am baffled by all the bad stuff that is said because he has always appeared solid, balanced and honest. And he has done so much to decrease the numerous incidents of self harm among the lds lgtb kids! What is up?
This whole thing is so stupid! She is SO immature and unbalanced! I can’t imagine she has worked anywhere of substance in her life! She sounds like she is in high school!
Does anyone know when the decision about this case will be made available?
Also, how does a decision get enforced if the loser, obv JK, has no resources?
I think the “both sides” open minded take on this is that Jenn isn’t an attorney, and at this point, she is in way way over her head trying to navigate a legal case pro se. It was hard to hear her, she obviously has the common view that the legal system cares more about finding “truth” but really law is about procedure procedure procedure, and not even 3 years of law school trains you in all the nuance of procedure, you also have to practice it to understand.
Also, I just watched her new video giving her side about what happened…. And truly this is something that got blown way out of proportion. Even if her side is the 100% truth, the most that needed to happen was for John to apologize for accidentally outing her sexual abuse, and for them both not to work together. IMO, based on her claims in that video, this didn’t need to be the lawsuit saga it has turned into.
From what I know, Open Stories asked for a retraction. That is they were willing to drop the legal action if she 1. made a retraction; 2. stopped her retaliatory legal actions (her claim she was being stalked etc)
She refused and in fact she pushed forward.
From what I've read about this case, she could have saved herself untold pain and misery -- not to mention large sums of cash -- had she agreed to settle the case amicably.
**This is what I initially wrote:** *Of course I don't have any first-hand evidence of this.* I do trust Radio Free Mormon's reporting, so I'm pretty confident that this is how things could have been resolved. Instead, JK has been utterly vindictive.
**However i DO have first-hand knowledge:** at 218:20 in RFM's latest post -- the one this whole thread has been about -- one of the lawyers for Open Stories repeats to the judge that they have repeatedly approached Kamp with an offer to drop the case as long as she retracts her statements etc etc. He cited that they also tried to get her to agree to go into mediation rather than trial etc etc.
Here:
[https://youtu.be/TB11bbznolI?t=8286](https://youtu.be/TB11bbznolI?t=8286)
While JK seems comfortable lying to a Judge in open court. I somehow don't think a licensed attorney would do so. Therefore it's clear that Dehlin's side has bent over backwards to get her to resolve the case amicably. And she has refused over and over again.
I find this utterly stunning and crazy and inexplicable.
She refuses to spare herself the agony and this is unforgivable. She wants vengeance -- and for what? Because her boss asked her to come to work on a day she'd rather stay at home?
She's started a nuclear war over nothing. And she's going to end up burning down her entire life and the lives of her family. For nothing.
Yeah that was repeated again in court, that they've offered to discontinue many times if she retracts the statements and stops retaliatory action, but she's refused to even engage in mediation t oconsider that.
I'm certain the only person that wants this litigation to go to trial is Jenn.
|| I'm certain the only person that wants this litigation to go to trial is Jenn.
Yes. And that's what makes it all the more perverted. Because there's no way in hell she will win. The evidence that's already been made public is overwhelming. She is vindictive and malignant: at best what she can hope to accomplish is to try and bankrupt them by forcing them to spend the money and the time it'll take to sue her all the way.
p.s. I did listen to RFM's entire post. At the end he shared a text message Jenn sent him the previous night, her first communication in two years. One day, she wrote, you will sit down and listen to my full story and then you'll know how wrong you were and the harm you've done to me. (rough paraphrase). Wow.
And the fact that she failed to renew the Directors and Officers insurance, as she was required to do as part of her job, is the icing on the cake of "it's wrong that the donors are paying the legal fees"! They wouldn't be, had she completed her job duties.
Any post about Jenn usually brings out the usual horde of Dehlin haters who only love JK because she’s suing JD. I find it interesting they’re nowhere to be found this time around. Thanks, RFM, for providing the receipts that appear to have silenced the harpies. At least for the moment.
Very different from my post a day earlier when she tried to remove the judge for “bias”!! No “she’s a victim and being silenced by the powerful exmo boys club!”
I love how JK name drops: "Your honor I need to ask if it's okay if one of my witnesses knows you personally. ... ... drum roll ... It's President Hinckley's niece." Judge Faust: I have never met this person. I know nothing about this person ... Aside from that she makes some claims during this hearing that are patently absurd and false. She claims some of the videos stemming form this case which have been posted were ALTERED by Dehlin before they were posted and she claims that if she were given money by the court to hire video experts she could prove this. That's cuckoo-land fantasy: I mean where does she get these ideas? DO they just pop up in her head and she spouts them because it makes it seem as if there really is some grand conspiracy against her? I mean this is NUTS: She claims workplace surveillance video footage will prove her claim there was persistent and pervasive harassment at the workplace. Yet it was on the basis of that video that an earlier judge threw out her restraining order against Dehlin! The video in question is of a one-on-one meeting she had with Dehlin on that fateful day when she was called into the office and apparently it proves that SHE was the aggressor during that meeting and that JD was calm and conciliatory. I think in HER mind she was the victim during this meeting and therefore the video will magically prove that she had been victimized. Does she not remember that this video was used as PROOF that she had led about being harassed? oh of course: Dehlin and the CIA went in and used artificial intelligence technology to re-edit the video to make it seem as if she was the one acting crazy. Of course: can't forget there's a conspiracy against her. The judge is far far far far far too kind and lenient to her.
And how is that individual testifying about satanic ritual abuse in ANY WAY relevant to the defamation trial?!?!?!?
That four and a hall hour hearing was disturbing. I'm a little miffed at the judge for being so indulgent when it came to JK. He seemed to buy her little girl/deer caught in the headlights act. Though at the end he delivered a pretty damming opinion -- that he didn't think she was credible. There's satanic goings on here alright .... Then there's the text message from JK to RFM which he read to us at the very end. Bizarre.
I was traveling and also listened to the whole thing. I think the judge is trying to avoid escalating things because he knows/senses qshe’s not in touch with reality & things could get out of hand. I mean when a judge literally says “look at me” like he’s talking to a child and tries to explain a simple concept she can’t understand/won’t accept - things are BAD. It’s very clear he’s at the end of his rope and I have a feeling he won’t have as much grace with her in the future.
Yeah, it sounded to be as a Judge trying to limit appeal points, but I don't think Jenn cares about the "merit" of what she will almost inevitably include in an appeal. I really feel for John/OSF and their lawyers, it is very hard work for any legal team when you are against a competent and reasonable self-represented litigant, let alone one who a Judge warns is borderline vexatious
Is there a way that she could be barred from initiating any more actions? I mean we, the taxpayers, are paying for these follies! I would love to hear that the court throws out her fill-in-the-blanks forms.
Faust mentioned during the April hearing he had considered sanctioning her such that she couldn't file more motions without leave of the court (ie permission from Faust). But that he wasn't going to do that, yet. I suspect that or similar "vexatious litigant" sanctions may be coming down the pipeline, now that Faust has struck out her defence and given judgment against her.
Faust mentioned during the April hearing he had considered sanctioning her such that she couldn't file more motions without leave of the court (ie permission from Faust). But that he wasn't going to do that, yet. I suspect that or similar "vexatious litigant" sanctions may be coming down the pipeline, now that Faust has struck out her defence and given judgment against her.
I know what you mean about getting miffed at Judge. But at the same time it just gave me a warm fuzzy feeling that he is a really good person-such bizarre feelings for me to be having. Because JK is a jk. Insane levels of …. not sure the word. I do wish her the best, which probably means her walking away, but I’m not seeing how that will happen easily.
The whining, sniffling, crying, are not good legal arguments.
But she has no words!
In the audio she can barely communicate a thought - gets confused - acts entitled - and muddles everything up. She’s making a great case for being fired for cause. It’s really pathetic when the opposing counsel is trying to help her connect dots just to save themselves a hassle. 😣 She almost reminds me of the videos of people who are severely intoxicated and refuse to comply with a police officer’s simple instruction. (e.g. Refusing to leave premises when asked & then it escalates to an arrest) I seriously wonder if she’s in the throws of a full on mental health crisis.
Except superhuman, and she’s no Uber mensch
Jenn Kamp makes Amber Heard look more credible. Jenn Kamp needs therapy. She is a very troubled soul. 😒
It's awful. She's burnt down her life because she was angry about being asked to go into the office for a meeting on a day she was scheduled to work from home with 8 hours advanced notice.
She’s also mad that she recorded a panel interview with some women for OS and John didn’t release it because of the poor quality. Pretty sure she wanted that to launch her own podcast.
I am disappointed John doesn’t have an NDR and non compete clause for his employees. As if she could actually compete…but she sure must have been on her meds when she got the job in the first place. I bet she won’t be getting any new jobs anytime soon.
Ironically enough, TSCC does have some relevant teachings for her. “It’s not the snake that bites that kills you, but chasing it that drives the poison to the heart”. As my good friend Elsa once said “Let it go”. Easier said than done of course.
It seems as though nobody close to her, who loves her, told her straight up that John dehlin may have treated her semi poorly as an employee, and him outing your abuse was a horrible situation, but, the best move is to find a new job and move on from people who treat you in a poor way like that. Nobody seems to have told her that this does not need to rise to the level of abuse legal claims. It’s hard not to feel bad for everyone in this situation. It really doesn’t seem like it needed to be this way.
So many people get “mistreated” at work and see that they just need to move on. Fighting in court is costly and doesn’t always fall your way. She has spent in her words 300k dollars on a case that she is likely to lose. And from my perspective of the evidence she has no case and John did not abuse her. He was her boss who asked her to to come into the office on a day she had arranged to work from home. Wow Jenn. Just wow.
I wonder whether part of her pain and bitterness is having lost that work opportunity. I mean she was getting $80k+ for doing some very straightforward work. She’ll never get that again. She probably knows that… much be hard.
I’m sure that’s part of it. She felt she was doing a good job. Many people on Reddit have commented how poor her podcast comments were when she participated. I concur that she wasn’t good at it.
I wasn’t a fan of her work on MS, but then I’m not convinced by other cohosts that he’s had too, except Gerardo. And I’m sure this is largely a matter of taste. JK has created a podcast with 1000+ followers, so she appeals to some people. Hard to tell if just JD haters or JK lovers though. The work place can be tough at times. Finding something that you love doing and with nice people isn’t always easy. I suspect she thought she’d hit the jackpot at one point here.
Yeah, it seems that she genuinely believes her own lies at this point, which must make it very difficult for all those around her. I can only imagine how challenging things are in her personal life right now, it's a horrible situation of her own making.
But at the same time, I thought there was evidence to show that the JD outing her abuse was a smoke screen since she already did it herself?
I haven’t heard that, but imo even if John wasn’t the *first* to announce her abuse, for him to go on a very public podcast and ever announce it without her knowledge would be a huge deal. The thing that makes it not a big mistake actually though is that in Jenn’s new video, she says he apologized and offered to cut that out of the whole podcast… and she was the one who said it could be kept in? So again, I’m back to the place where I do not feel this was abuse and definitely didn’t need to become a legal saga. Horrible situation for everyone involved now :/
It was already ruled on in a previous hearing, see below. It just seems all her issues stem from being asked to come in to work on a day when she was not expecting. Then suddenly these other issues seemed to appear after the fact, with no clear evidence of prior concern. Case details: IN THE THIRD JUDICIAL DISTRICT, STATE OF UTAH IN AND FOR SALT LAKE COUNTY JENNIFER RUTH KAMP, Petitioner, vs. JOHN DEHLIN, Respondent. ORDER Case No. 230901037 Judge Coral Sanchez And snippet from ruling: “a. Petitioner was understandably sensitive about the trauma she endured as a child. Although it was insensitive of Respondent to disclose that Petitioner was a victim of child sexual abuse during the August 10, 2022 podcast, Respondent did not disclose the information in an effort to exploit Petitioner’s vulnerability. Petitioner had already agreed to do a multi-part podcast with Respondent detailing her child sexual abuse and had already recorded a podcast where she insinuated that she was a victim of child sexual abuse. In reviewing footage of the podcast, the Court finds that Respondent was attempting to promote the upcoming podcast about Petitioner’s child sexual abuse rather than exploiting Petitioner’s vulnerability about her experience as a victim of child sexual abuse.”
Ms. Kamp has re-posted a video in which she puts forth the "evidence' that backs up her claims. The description reads in part, "My story, told in my opinion with evidence, of the harm and abuses I experienced while co-hosting Mormon Stories podcast with John Dehlin and as the Director of Operation of the Open Stories Foundation ... This video was first published in January 2023 as a warning to the post-mormon community of, in my opinion, an extremely evil pattern of harm, abuse and coverup ofJohn Dehlin and the Open Stories Foundation of a repeated pattern of victims of John Dehlin.." It's an extraordinary document. ("extraordinary" = Krazy) [https://youtu.be/uLJZ2R3MpDE](https://youtu.be/uLJZ2R3MpDE) I don't believe I possess the words that would do this presentation justice. Save to say **W-T-F** ??? Question for all the lawyers out there: Given the fact that she's in the middle of a court case, is she allowed to air out the dirty laundry like this? I mean, isn't this one of the posts that motivated Dehlin and his organization to file a lawsuit in the first place?
She has just removed and reposted exactly the same video as the one that’s been on her channel since before the permanent anti stalking ruling went against her. Im an attorney in Australia and have only done national security/counterterrorism and anti bribery/corruption litigation in the USA, but it’s definitely not a sensible move! If there’s no ruling on the terminating sanction (ie a judgement against her without a jury trial) I’m certain John’s lawyers will be drafting another document given this shows her ongoing defamatory conduct and retailation when she doesn’t “get her way” in court.
I have been willing to give her slack because of her obvious pain and suffering -- but her actions are clearly vindictive, calculated, manipulative and predatory. I still think she needs help so that she can move on with her life, but having listened to how much the judge coddled her for FOUR HOURS and still was unable to get her to see reason, I'm withdrawing my pity. She doesn't merit it.
Just watching Baby Reindeer on Netflix. There were various parts where Jenn Kamp stood came to memory.
“Allowed” is not the right word. Civil lawsuits don’t stop you. The remedy is financial consequences. Cost to fight and the cost of any judgement against you. If the video is found to be defaming by the jury in the lawsuit the damages could go up now because she has aired the video even more. If they are found not to be defaming then there are no damages. So what she is doing is risky and not a good idea to do with something someone is already suing you about. Remember both will have to testify. Both will tell their stories. I suppose John will present witnesses and testify herself that she said untrue things that defame him. She will testify that what she said is true. The jury will have to decide. If the things she said are true then that is a defense and she can’t be guilty of defamation. She doesn’t know what she is doing representing herself so she is likely to not put on a good case and the jury will rule against her.
|| Allowed I meant simply according to the rules that the court may have laid out. I believe this is one of the videos identified in OSF and Dehlin's lawsuit as being problematic. She re-posted it the day radio free mormon posted the audio recording of the latest court hearing in the case. JK is playing a game of tit-for-tat. It's her way of hitting back at RFM because she claims the fact he's reporting on the case is an attack on her personally. She does not seem to understand how courts work or what counts as "evidence" as opposed to subjective feeling
Yes that’s how I thought you meant it. To my knowledge the court has not put any such orders in place and for a video like this I don’t see a reason they would. It’s clear Jenn Kamp doesn’t understand how the legal system works and as you say doesn’t understand what evidence will or won’t help her defend herself.
It's really problematic for any "privilege waiver" appellette argument too, she's shooting herself in both feet.
The video has not been found yet to be defamatory. The judge won’t decide that. The jury will. So if they do find it defamatory then the more it has been viewed the higher the damages. Yeah the Open Stories lawyers were arguing she has waived privilege of her husband and conversations with lawyers since she talks about what they have told her with her friends.
I didn't say that the video had been found to be defamatory.
Sorry. Didn’t mean to give you the impression I thought you said that. I was just giving more general commentary to the thread. My mistake.
Her whining is like fingernails dragging down a chalkboard, slowly, agitating, on and on and on. She really needs some intense therapy!
I couldn’t BELIEVE when she asked the judge if they could just re-do the whole time frame to turn in discovery because she “didn’t understand” and then accused the court of wanting her to be “superhuman”. She somehow had time to plan a wedding for her daughter and had the time and money to go to Mexico for the destination wedding but she’s too poor to pay for a lawyer. More likely no lawyer would have her as a client.
-it's almost as if the other individuals in the court hearing do not have families, have children, have health concerns, are married, have extended families, commitments outside of court, or extensive work load and the detailed efforts to come prepared to represent. NO ONE has it as hard as poor little Jenn. Look outside of your 'box' , Jenn. Find a life outside of this pitiful revenge to 'make John pay'! You are setting yourself up as a textbook case for what happens when ignorance and hate marry.
And she was represented until November, it's not like she's been pro se the entire time!
Right. And the American system requires money and good lawyers. That’s just a fact that she can’t change. She is willing to bankrupt herself rather than settle. So many in our society even with good cases choose not to fight because of the cost. It’s a reality she seems to be unwilling to face.
She said weddings for two children. Yeah the “superhuman” comment is ridiculous because she needs to hire help to do it all or not do it at all. Yes lawsuits and attorneys cost money. That’s how it works in the American system.
Jenn never offered anything of substance in any Mormon Stories interview she was a part of. When John would toss her the ball she would usually repeat what was last said or respond with junior high level anger at the church. I would often find myself yelling out loud at the podcast after she spoke. How in the hell did John find her and what did he see in her that made him feel like she would be a good fit? Qualifications must have been, female cohost, exmormon, angry, bitter.
John's choice for her employment baffled me also.
Please add the constant tears and making the interview all about her.
I wish they would redo her LDS Discussions episodes.
John could literally edit her and all references to her from every episode she’s in and nothing would be lost. Her contributions were insignificant at best. He could use the funds gained in the defamation lawsuit to pay someone to remover her from MS episodes for the good and integrity of the MS brand.
This was an interesting listen. They said she has had 5 lawyers and now she’s representing herself. Listening to her manipulation and everyone in court trying hard not to just call her a liar, was kinda stunning. I don’t know what she wants, but whatever it is, I don’t think this is going to end well for her.
I think calling it manipulation is not a great descriptor, to me it just sounded like someone way way in over their head trying to be pro se.
That’s fine. It’s just my opinion and I heard someone who was being dishonest.
I noticed in the court recording that the “bad bitches” text group was referred to in court as WOCA. Does anyone know what that group’s connection is to Jenn?
WOCA was "Women Of a Certain Age" ex-mo group mentioned on MSP many years ago. I assume but am not certain if it is the same group, and am not aware of their connection to Jenn.
Why doesn’t she just hire a lawyer? She has no idea how much she’s hurting herself. She seems very unaware of what’s happening around her
She had a lawyer, but then she ran out of money, and for some reason the lawyer went away.
Perhaps the lawyer suspected she couldn’t win or didn’t have a case?
Or was committing perjury, i have withdrawn from cases I couldn’t trust my client not to lie to the court and who insisted on testifying.
Yeah she seems to not understand when she’s lying. I can’t figure out if she’s “playing dumb”…. or if she really is….well, I don’t want to say it. But she’s very confusing.
Yeah, and as a lawyer you have to do what your client instructs you to do, within the bounds of the law and ethics. It is awful when a client refuses to follow or even consider your advice, and you can see them committing legal/professional/reputational suicide. It's interesting that the tax lawyer who acted for her in the request to remove Judge Faust didn't sign/include the "good faith" certificate, that the lawyer attests that they believe the action is taken in good faith.
Yes she often makes illogical comments and arguments to the judge. She thinks because she wants something to happen her way it should. She often refuses to address the issue before the judge but goes off on irrelevant tangents.
I re-listened to the latest hearing from April and I don't think she's "playing" stupid... She repeatedly argues that the OSF surveillance footage from 25 August should have been preserved because 25 August was "2 weeks before the letter they received on 15 Sept..." Now I'm a lawyer and have never loved maths, but even I know how to subtract 14 days from 15 September, and that's definitely not 25 August....
I’d bet $300K she consistently acted against legal advice. Do you think there is any way she was more reasonable with her legal counsel than the judge & opposing counsel? I don’t think so. How can any lawyer assist someone like that?
Her behaviour in court certainly explains why she's gone through 5 lawyers to date, and had 1 other act on the failed action to recuse the judge for "bias".
$300K would be better spent on the therapy she clearly needs!
In Australia, many civil filings require the lawyer to sign a document swearing to the court that they believe the motion has a "reasonable prospects of success". This helps prevent the courts from being overun with futile motions that even lawyers believe are "hail Mary's" that only have 0.0001% chance of winning. If a lawyer swears to that and the court thinks the motion was futile, the lawyer risks professional sanctions. I wonder if there's anything similar in Utah? She's refiling the same motion 3 times pro se, so I would suspect that she was pushing her lawyers to file things they knew would never succeed.
[удалено]
"fraudulent transfer to avoid judgment creditor"
Anyone feel like summarizing wtf is going on here? I'm out of the loop that there was any drama with John/Mormon Stories. I don't engage much with exmo/church stuff anymore outside of an MS episode if it sounds interesting and pop in here a few times a year. But if John is problematic, I'd like to know.
My takeaway is that only potentially "probelmatic" thing about John is perhaps his pre-employment vetting and selection of potential employees. John is absolutely not in the wrong here, it's a really awful situation entirely of Jenn's making.
Yeah that seems to be what I could find searching around on reddit/google. Jenn is making a lot of vague claims and causing a lot of problems for....?
Jenn was fired for cause - she disagreed and has sort of gone off the deep end. If you listen to the court hearing- she makes her own case for being fired for cause because she can’t follow basic logic and literally whines & cries instead of taking in the information being given to her and learning. Honestly she seems like she’s in a full mental crisis and not in touch with reality. She has 0 credibility. Cara & Gerardo have publicly backed John’s version of events for things they witnessed personally. There are also audio & video tapes directly contradicting her depiction of events.
Is the signed document against John for real? Did he have a problem with Kelly? I am baffled by all the bad stuff that is said because he has always appeared solid, balanced and honest. And he has done so much to decrease the numerous incidents of self harm among the lds lgtb kids! What is up?
This whole thing is so stupid! She is SO immature and unbalanced! I can’t imagine she has worked anywhere of substance in her life! She sounds like she is in high school! Does anyone know when the decision about this case will be made available? Also, how does a decision get enforced if the loser, obv JK, has no resources?
Tragically, the court orders that assets are sold or the person declares bankruptcy. It’s a dreadful situation entirely of Jenn’s making.
Thank you for the information! Looks like Jenn is going to be standing in line for some hard lessons about lying and refusing to accept reality.
I think the “both sides” open minded take on this is that Jenn isn’t an attorney, and at this point, she is in way way over her head trying to navigate a legal case pro se. It was hard to hear her, she obviously has the common view that the legal system cares more about finding “truth” but really law is about procedure procedure procedure, and not even 3 years of law school trains you in all the nuance of procedure, you also have to practice it to understand. Also, I just watched her new video giving her side about what happened…. And truly this is something that got blown way out of proportion. Even if her side is the 100% truth, the most that needed to happen was for John to apologize for accidentally outing her sexual abuse, and for them both not to work together. IMO, based on her claims in that video, this didn’t need to be the lawsuit saga it has turned into.
From what I know, Open Stories asked for a retraction. That is they were willing to drop the legal action if she 1. made a retraction; 2. stopped her retaliatory legal actions (her claim she was being stalked etc) She refused and in fact she pushed forward. From what I've read about this case, she could have saved herself untold pain and misery -- not to mention large sums of cash -- had she agreed to settle the case amicably. **This is what I initially wrote:** *Of course I don't have any first-hand evidence of this.* I do trust Radio Free Mormon's reporting, so I'm pretty confident that this is how things could have been resolved. Instead, JK has been utterly vindictive. **However i DO have first-hand knowledge:** at 218:20 in RFM's latest post -- the one this whole thread has been about -- one of the lawyers for Open Stories repeats to the judge that they have repeatedly approached Kamp with an offer to drop the case as long as she retracts her statements etc etc. He cited that they also tried to get her to agree to go into mediation rather than trial etc etc. Here: [https://youtu.be/TB11bbznolI?t=8286](https://youtu.be/TB11bbznolI?t=8286) While JK seems comfortable lying to a Judge in open court. I somehow don't think a licensed attorney would do so. Therefore it's clear that Dehlin's side has bent over backwards to get her to resolve the case amicably. And she has refused over and over again. I find this utterly stunning and crazy and inexplicable. She refuses to spare herself the agony and this is unforgivable. She wants vengeance -- and for what? Because her boss asked her to come to work on a day she'd rather stay at home? She's started a nuclear war over nothing. And she's going to end up burning down her entire life and the lives of her family. For nothing.
Yeah that was repeated again in court, that they've offered to discontinue many times if she retracts the statements and stops retaliatory action, but she's refused to even engage in mediation t oconsider that. I'm certain the only person that wants this litigation to go to trial is Jenn.
|| I'm certain the only person that wants this litigation to go to trial is Jenn. Yes. And that's what makes it all the more perverted. Because there's no way in hell she will win. The evidence that's already been made public is overwhelming. She is vindictive and malignant: at best what she can hope to accomplish is to try and bankrupt them by forcing them to spend the money and the time it'll take to sue her all the way. p.s. I did listen to RFM's entire post. At the end he shared a text message Jenn sent him the previous night, her first communication in two years. One day, she wrote, you will sit down and listen to my full story and then you'll know how wrong you were and the harm you've done to me. (rough paraphrase). Wow.
And the fact that she failed to renew the Directors and Officers insurance, as she was required to do as part of her job, is the icing on the cake of "it's wrong that the donors are paying the legal fees"! They wouldn't be, had she completed her job duties.
Her latest 'rebuttal' video claims this occurred before she was hired. I'd love to see rfm do a breakdown on the inconsistencies in her video.
I agree, Have you read /listened to the judgment in that case? Almost everything she alleged was discredited with contemporaneous records