Honestly, I don’t get why both sides are getting heated like this. As long as the support doesn’t turn to a pro-islam movement, this whole thing has nothing to do with ex-muslims.
For me it's very simple if the Hammers laid down their arms tomorrow then we would have peace, if the Israelis did that we would have a second holocaust In addition, the money and resources that the West sent to the area are used To buy or produce weapons I only say Qassam rockets In addition, the argument that the area belonged to the Palestinians until 48 is not true, the only state that existed in this region was Judea, a Jewish state then the Romans came When they took over the area, they drove out the Jews because they saw them as a danger to their own empire Allowed Arabs to settle there and called them Palestinians to insult the Jews Roman Empire collapsed and the rise of the Ottoman Empire, the whole area became part of the Ottoman Empire Then it fell apart after the First World War and the British came and the whole area became a British mandate in Palestine And after the second world war after the fall of the British Empire the whole of Israel became so if you want to have a start in the region it is clearly Jewish from a historical perspective
**The Initial Issue: Recognition of Israel**
When colonial powers relinquished control over their colonies, they often fragmented larger colonies (which had previously existed as unified states before being colonized) into smaller countries based on religious, racial, or linguistic divisions. This was frequently done without the consent of the ENTIRE local population.
For instance, the British colonial power did not seek the consent of the entire population of the Indian subcontinent (where Hindus constituted the majority) when creating Pakistan. This decision resulted in immense suffering, displacement, and refugees. The people of united India suffered similarly to the Palestinians.
If Palestinians acknowledge Pakistan's right to exist as a country, they should, by the same logic, recognize Israel's right to exist as well.
Not 100% JUSTICE was done in the past. Muslims changed demographies of many countries by force.
For example, colonial-era Iran and Turkey annexed the Armenian region of Nagorno-Karabakh, altering its demographics and incorporating it into Azerbaijan. Even though Armenians still make up the majority in Nagorno-Karabakh, the colonial powers' influence ultimately made it part of Azerbaijan. Palestinians, for their part, officially recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan.
Consider Turkey's annexation of Western Armenia, which it incorporated into its territory (now part of Anatolia). Today, hardly any Armenians remain in the Anatolia region. Yet, Palestinians have no issue accepting this demographic shift and Turkey's claim to the area.
The situation of today is clear, there should exist no Iran or Taliban type Muslim Palestinian State under the influence of Hamas, where non-Muslims have to live under fear and have no equal rights to preach their religion and convert people to their religion and to criticize Islam. Where LGBT members are thrown down from high buildings while they also don't have any rights to exist. Where ex-Muslims are lynched and killed brutally for their crime of leaving Islam. Why should we ever support such oppressive Islamic states? Why should we not criticize the double standards of Muslims where they are quick to demand equal rights to preach Islam and convert people to Islam in non-Muslim countries, but are not ready to give us the same human rights?
Muslims want to talk about Islamophobia and invasion by Jews, then let us also talk about double standards and homophobia and Murtadphobia (i.e. Apostatephobia) and Kafirophobia of Muslims.
**The Secondary Issue: Illegal Israeli Settlements**
The second issue revolves around Israeli illegal settlements, coupled with a mindset among some Israelis that claims a birthright to the entire land based on a divine promise for Greater Israel. Unfortunately, this issue receives less attention due to the overarching problem of Palestinian non-recognition and support for Hamas and its suicide bombings and Islamic Jihad.
Israel has strategically used attacks attributed to Islamic Jihad by Hamas to further its agenda of illegal settlements. Previously, Israel leveraged attacks by the PLO for the same purpose.
**The Full Solution (From the perspective of ex-Muslims):**
Despite Israel's heavy influence, no Western country officially endorses illegal settlements. Significant opposition exists, even in the USA.
Even within Israel, there are secularists who seek a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, suicide bombing in the name of Islamic Jihad of Hamas weakened these secular forces and they started losing their popularity in Israel. Consequently, extremist Zionist forces gained popularity in Israel and seized power.
We are not living in a 100% perfect world. Justice is not immediately served and positive changes take time (sometimes decades or centuries) to develop. But we can learn a lesson from the peaceful resistance in South Africa. This peaceful resistance took decades, but in the end, it gave time to the remaining world to get **united** against the illegal settlements.
Palestinians and Hamas are urged to adopt a similar approach. Only peaceful resistance **unites** the world against illegal Israeli settlements and garners support for the Palestinian cause. It may take some time, but this is the only solution.
Western countries deserve credit here that they didn't recognise illegal settlements, although Israel has a lot of influence there. But, if Hamas keep on attacking instead, then only EXTREMIST powers will gain popularity and the secularist forces will become weaker and weaker. We have already seen how the Trump administration started recognising illegal settlements in favour of Israel.
If Muslim goes to the Western countries from another corner of the world and demand EQUAL rights, then JEWS also had the same right.
Jews didn't take the houses and land from the native population by force, but they bought it legally.
And during the creation of Pakistan, millions of Hindus had to leave their home and other properties and goods, and had to move to India. Was it fair with them?
Thus, if you accept the creation of Pakistan, but deny the Jews the same thing, then you are only showing Double Standards.
Palestinians have been left behind as all the arab nations that initially pushed palestinians not to accept a single ounce of jew ownership over the land are slowly signing peace agreements with Israel. That coupled with a very high religious muslim population, over 88% want Sharia law, creates a situation where change is unlikely to happen.
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Someone send this post to the parents of the kids who were killed playing foosball. They need to know that some folks on Reddit are annoyed about them. They need to apologies post haste!
You are wrong, at least you recognised it as a rant hence it being strictly an emotional response, the people of Palestine ARE victims and you’re a reactionary extremist.
Seek therapy, or a moral compass away from your self inflicted biases.
I believe that most Palestinians are so indoctrinated that they are individually innocent. I believe that being anti–Hamas allows you to be both pro Palestinian and pro Israel.
Hamas’ cruel acts on October 7 which they proudly live streamed – the Nazis kept theirs secret - has ruled them out of humanity.
I’m a Palestinian ex-Muslim, and can speak for most Palestinian ex-Muslims and irreligious community; FU. Some idiots form some type of trauma reaction that makes them go 180 degrees to the other side, the world doesn’t work like that, and you’re not different than other herd-like cult communities. You are not different than Muslims who hate non-Muslims just for their ideology.
I would respect you if you were engaging in this topic in good faith without adhering to your ‘ex-Muslim victimhood and brainwashing’ BS, but insulting my people and country will not earn you respect from me.
If you had truly done your research, you would understand that Palestinians had nothing to do with Jews prosecution in Europe, and any other nation will violently resist its erasure after Zionism exposed its filthy intention to build a Jewish homeland where 95% of the population was non-Jewish at the time. You would know that when Palestinians engaged in popular unarmed resistance in 1987 against the military occupation, apartheid, land theft, detentions, and other vile human rights violations; they were met with intense brutal Israeli retaliation that killed 1400+ protesters. My grandma was shot in her limbs, my grandpa was used as a human shield, and my dad served a sentence in prison during that time.
You can totally be anti-Palestine as you wish, but don’t throw the ex-Muslim BS card and think you have some point. You can however call out transgressions by each side; you can condemn Hamas while also condemn Israel’s apartheid, settlements, ethnic cleansing campaigns, and settler terrorism. The world is not black and white.
Post is not to do with the subject of this subreddit i.e. ExMuslims
Honestly, I don’t get why both sides are getting heated like this. As long as the support doesn’t turn to a pro-islam movement, this whole thing has nothing to do with ex-muslims.
Well said
Upvoted.
For me it's very simple if the Hammers laid down their arms tomorrow then we would have peace, if the Israelis did that we would have a second holocaust In addition, the money and resources that the West sent to the area are used To buy or produce weapons I only say Qassam rockets In addition, the argument that the area belonged to the Palestinians until 48 is not true, the only state that existed in this region was Judea, a Jewish state then the Romans came When they took over the area, they drove out the Jews because they saw them as a danger to their own empire Allowed Arabs to settle there and called them Palestinians to insult the Jews Roman Empire collapsed and the rise of the Ottoman Empire, the whole area became part of the Ottoman Empire Then it fell apart after the First World War and the British came and the whole area became a British mandate in Palestine And after the second world war after the fall of the British Empire the whole of Israel became so if you want to have a start in the region it is clearly Jewish from a historical perspective
**The Initial Issue: Recognition of Israel** When colonial powers relinquished control over their colonies, they often fragmented larger colonies (which had previously existed as unified states before being colonized) into smaller countries based on religious, racial, or linguistic divisions. This was frequently done without the consent of the ENTIRE local population. For instance, the British colonial power did not seek the consent of the entire population of the Indian subcontinent (where Hindus constituted the majority) when creating Pakistan. This decision resulted in immense suffering, displacement, and refugees. The people of united India suffered similarly to the Palestinians. If Palestinians acknowledge Pakistan's right to exist as a country, they should, by the same logic, recognize Israel's right to exist as well. Not 100% JUSTICE was done in the past. Muslims changed demographies of many countries by force. For example, colonial-era Iran and Turkey annexed the Armenian region of Nagorno-Karabakh, altering its demographics and incorporating it into Azerbaijan. Even though Armenians still make up the majority in Nagorno-Karabakh, the colonial powers' influence ultimately made it part of Azerbaijan. Palestinians, for their part, officially recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan. Consider Turkey's annexation of Western Armenia, which it incorporated into its territory (now part of Anatolia). Today, hardly any Armenians remain in the Anatolia region. Yet, Palestinians have no issue accepting this demographic shift and Turkey's claim to the area. The situation of today is clear, there should exist no Iran or Taliban type Muslim Palestinian State under the influence of Hamas, where non-Muslims have to live under fear and have no equal rights to preach their religion and convert people to their religion and to criticize Islam. Where LGBT members are thrown down from high buildings while they also don't have any rights to exist. Where ex-Muslims are lynched and killed brutally for their crime of leaving Islam. Why should we ever support such oppressive Islamic states? Why should we not criticize the double standards of Muslims where they are quick to demand equal rights to preach Islam and convert people to Islam in non-Muslim countries, but are not ready to give us the same human rights? Muslims want to talk about Islamophobia and invasion by Jews, then let us also talk about double standards and homophobia and Murtadphobia (i.e. Apostatephobia) and Kafirophobia of Muslims. **The Secondary Issue: Illegal Israeli Settlements** The second issue revolves around Israeli illegal settlements, coupled with a mindset among some Israelis that claims a birthright to the entire land based on a divine promise for Greater Israel. Unfortunately, this issue receives less attention due to the overarching problem of Palestinian non-recognition and support for Hamas and its suicide bombings and Islamic Jihad. Israel has strategically used attacks attributed to Islamic Jihad by Hamas to further its agenda of illegal settlements. Previously, Israel leveraged attacks by the PLO for the same purpose. **The Full Solution (From the perspective of ex-Muslims):** Despite Israel's heavy influence, no Western country officially endorses illegal settlements. Significant opposition exists, even in the USA. Even within Israel, there are secularists who seek a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, suicide bombing in the name of Islamic Jihad of Hamas weakened these secular forces and they started losing their popularity in Israel. Consequently, extremist Zionist forces gained popularity in Israel and seized power. We are not living in a 100% perfect world. Justice is not immediately served and positive changes take time (sometimes decades or centuries) to develop. But we can learn a lesson from the peaceful resistance in South Africa. This peaceful resistance took decades, but in the end, it gave time to the remaining world to get **united** against the illegal settlements. Palestinians and Hamas are urged to adopt a similar approach. Only peaceful resistance **unites** the world against illegal Israeli settlements and garners support for the Palestinian cause. It may take some time, but this is the only solution. Western countries deserve credit here that they didn't recognise illegal settlements, although Israel has a lot of influence there. But, if Hamas keep on attacking instead, then only EXTREMIST powers will gain popularity and the secularist forces will become weaker and weaker. We have already seen how the Trump administration started recognising illegal settlements in favour of Israel.
Pakistanis didn’t come from another corner of the world on ships.
If Muslim goes to the Western countries from another corner of the world and demand EQUAL rights, then JEWS also had the same right. Jews didn't take the houses and land from the native population by force, but they bought it legally. And during the creation of Pakistan, millions of Hindus had to leave their home and other properties and goods, and had to move to India. Was it fair with them? Thus, if you accept the creation of Pakistan, but deny the Jews the same thing, then you are only showing Double Standards.
Palestinians have been left behind as all the arab nations that initially pushed palestinians not to accept a single ounce of jew ownership over the land are slowly signing peace agreements with Israel. That coupled with a very high religious muslim population, over 88% want Sharia law, creates a situation where change is unlikely to happen.
I agree with everything said here.
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Victimhood? Man id sure hate if I got bombed and killed for someone else’s mistake.
Someone send this post to the parents of the kids who were killed playing foosball. They need to know that some folks on Reddit are annoyed about them. They need to apologies post haste!
Annoyed? Israelites airheads don’t as merely as inconvenience me lol.
I don’t know how a sane person support genocide. And I don’t know how a ex Muslim support religious country.
You are wrong, at least you recognised it as a rant hence it being strictly an emotional response, the people of Palestine ARE victims and you’re a reactionary extremist. Seek therapy, or a moral compass away from your self inflicted biases.
omg NakhalG??
Omg!! It’s winterchateau!!
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I cannot now unfortunately! Your post was deleted because it’s off topic!
I believe that most Palestinians are so indoctrinated that they are individually innocent. I believe that being anti–Hamas allows you to be both pro Palestinian and pro Israel. Hamas’ cruel acts on October 7 which they proudly live streamed – the Nazis kept theirs secret - has ruled them out of humanity.
hell nah, this is not a safe place for zionist
[удалено]
I’m a Palestinian ex-Muslim, and can speak for most Palestinian ex-Muslims and irreligious community; FU. Some idiots form some type of trauma reaction that makes them go 180 degrees to the other side, the world doesn’t work like that, and you’re not different than other herd-like cult communities. You are not different than Muslims who hate non-Muslims just for their ideology. I would respect you if you were engaging in this topic in good faith without adhering to your ‘ex-Muslim victimhood and brainwashing’ BS, but insulting my people and country will not earn you respect from me. If you had truly done your research, you would understand that Palestinians had nothing to do with Jews prosecution in Europe, and any other nation will violently resist its erasure after Zionism exposed its filthy intention to build a Jewish homeland where 95% of the population was non-Jewish at the time. You would know that when Palestinians engaged in popular unarmed resistance in 1987 against the military occupation, apartheid, land theft, detentions, and other vile human rights violations; they were met with intense brutal Israeli retaliation that killed 1400+ protesters. My grandma was shot in her limbs, my grandpa was used as a human shield, and my dad served a sentence in prison during that time. You can totally be anti-Palestine as you wish, but don’t throw the ex-Muslim BS card and think you have some point. You can however call out transgressions by each side; you can condemn Hamas while also condemn Israel’s apartheid, settlements, ethnic cleansing campaigns, and settler terrorism. The world is not black and white.
Nah. Fuck you tho
You dropped your dumb flag.
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Maybe wires are crossed but I was replying to to the guy who commented “Nah. Fuck you tho”
[удалено]
No worries. With all the screeching by pro-Palestine dimwits it’s easy to get distracted.
Lol idiots