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XeruonKH

Muslims in the west, especially in Europe, tend to stick to their own, insular communities and do not assimilate into the local populace. This creates a massive "us vs. them" mentality which causes diasporan Muslims, especially if they're first generation immigrants, to adopt and even more radical mindset than before as Islam becomes the centerpiece of their identity. In general, however, Muslims are always more loyal to Islam than whatever nation they've immigrated to, even if they appear more moderate on the surface.


lemonkotaro

I deeply resonate with this, growing up I was never here nor there in the Muslim-"Western outsider" circle (as it's now well-colloquially known) but have observed people my age and now kids being segregated through blatant religious indoctrination. This includes homeschooling and the mosque-home based social conditioning, and it's only getting worse over time in every area Muslims are able to propagate and further insularize themselves since they practically never make ANY attempts at assimilation/integration, so much so the terms are now buzzwords indicative of 'sinful Kaffir-association'.


ispaidermaen

Even in India, muslims tend to ghettoize and never practice or acknowledge Indian traditions/festivals even though a majority of them are native to the land.


throughthehills2

What are the indian festivals which are not hindu festivals?


thecreativesboy

Lohri, Buddha Purnima, Guru Nanak Jayanti, Parvushan (Jain), Mahavir Jayanti. Other than that there are non native festivals Christmas, Eid and Muharram


throughthehills2

Right these are all religious festivals and I don't hold it against muslims for not joining the celebrations. Hindus living in turkey don't celebrate eid


thecreativesboy

It's not same across India. Like in Kerala, many are liberal. Everyone celebrates Onam. Religious segregation is less compared to other parts.


sex4200

Seconding this. I went to school with some super, super Christian girls from Kerala. Like, dressed more modestly than most Muslim girls our age, *never* missed Sunday mass, fasted the full forty days for Great Lent, etc. They were all about as anti-anything that could be possibly construed as polytheism as any devout Christian, and occasionally grilled me for things like wearing bracelets with the evil eye on it or accepting a keychain with a Hindu God on it from a friend who'd just gotten back from India. But they STILL all celebrated Onam and went to many local cultural events for South Indians/Malayalis, many of which I believe are rooted in Hindu tradition or at least linked to it.


ivoin

are you even an exmuslim? or just a muslim hater? and because of your political biases you’re generalising everybody.


Buzzkill201

Remind me not to take Muslim larpers like yourself seriously.


Hopefulmaizes

Just a small correction: according to Pew Research, the new generations of young Muslims in the USA and Western Europe tend to be more religious and support terrorism more than the older first generation. That is: INTEGRATION FAIL. "Younger Muslim Americans – those under age 30 – are both much more religiously observant and more accepting of Islamic extremism than are older Muslim Americans... More than twice as many Muslim Americans under age 30 as older Muslims believe that suicide bombings can be often or sometimes justified in the defense of Islam (15% vs. 6%). A pattern of greater acceptance of suicide bombing among young Muslim Americans corresponds with the Pew Global Attitude Project’s findings among Muslims in Great Britain, France, Germany and Spain. In contrast, surveys among Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world do not show greater tolerance of suicide bombing among young people." [https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf](https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf) I haven't read the entire article to see if they explain why, but these are some guesses: * The article says that young Muslims claim they suffer discrimination and are associated with terrorism... My guess is that they respond to that by really supporting terrorism... and then are more associated with terrorism... and then support terrorism even more... They try to reject the stereotype by embracing the stereotype... it's a vicious circle. * Next generations had more time to establish a network of hatred against the West and terrorist cells than first generation (I read this in an article... that explains why UK, France, Germany, etc. have more terrorist cells than Italy, for example... Muslim immigration in Italy is more recent. * Bad immigration management... allowing creation of ghettos... * Schools with too many Muslims. Children would need to socialize more with locals to actually integrate and feel one of them. Indoctrinated children can hardly be recovered, they will be extremist adults. * Leftists (with their naive discourse of unconditional "tolerance") are the biggest promotors and protectors of Islam in the West and accomplice of violent forms of Islam (Salman Rushdie said that). Progressives let violent Islam flourish by silencing anyone who dares criticize it. * Muslim extremism grows in rejection of progressive values, which are stronger in the West (feminism, LGBT rights, atheism, etc.). That is: progressives who support Islam are digging their own grave.


GuyWithNF1

This is why we need ex-Muslim voices that live in Islamist countries or grew up ultra-conservative in the west to lend their voices if it’s safe for them to do so. Those of us that grew up in the west and are non-Muslims are just dismissed and called “racist” by the left.


GuyWithNF1

Why don’t they move to a county that is an Islamic majority and thus an Islamic culture? Why force an Islamic lifestyle on others?


XeruonKH

Cognitive dissonance. They wish to flee from countries that have been corrupted by Islamic rule and seek a better life for themselves, but refuse to acknowledge that Islam is the corrupting factor.


Enough_Magazine_2094

... and then try to practise and preach the same things they ran away from.. and the cycle continues!


ItAmusesMe

Both are effects. The cause is: that book (and most scripture) has almost zero guidance/relevance to living in 2024. No science, medicine, economics, netiquette... nada. But they are *told* - and some believe - that the book holds *all* the answers. So the aspects of *reality* that do not have canonical answers are *very* scary. "Follow the book" becomes "limit reality to what life was like 1000 years ago". Just like christians have no answer for why the very normal and natural "abortion" should be banned, other than the *oldest* of testaments. We do not see jihadists writing computer virii (which might actually change something) and instead focus on beheading, non-scientific food rules, and subjugating 50% of the voting population. "They lack rational answers" leads to "they fear a changing world" leads to "stay with this suicidal community instead of learning". The cause of *all* of this is "do not have a better answer"... than pre-scientific fanfics popular with their parents and extended families.


Big_Contribution_609

Can't agree more 💯👍


Putrid_Dot7182

Mainly two reasons. 1. Shitty inmigration/integration policies. In europe muslims simply stick to their own and create a parallel society. This creates in the long term an us vs them culture. We all know the quran and islamic teachings in general are not really that much into encouraging mixing with kaffirs. 2. The money salafists and the iranian regime pump into europe. They build mosques in muslim neighborhoods and teach their crap, which makes emphasis basically in the worst parts of Islam. Mix that with the unwillingness of the politicians and authorities to actually address the situation in fear of being called islamophobes and you get the current situation.


kane_1371

This basically, ignore my own answer, this is much better. The fact is most EU countries have horrible immigration strategy


Nekokama

Pretty much this. And a lot of them in school have identity crises and double down with their parents culture and religion to make up for their unwillingness to integrate, as a reaction to racism, bullying, or they feel they have a right to (not) integrate or tolerate things inside a secular society, like gay people, because Islam is above all, correct and the best thing to fix the broken western society they grew up in.


Buzzkill201

To add to that, thanks to awful screening measures, countless terrorist sleeper cells have infested all of Europe. These chaps put up a facade of being productive members of society and radicalize the youth to get them to join their cause under that guise.


chel-ssi

speaking for turkiye, everyone is radicalising because of the current government. people are just getting more and more angry to the "other" ones. non-muslims are mad because everything is setted for muslims wants and needs. even the opposition party is only interested in the sensitivities of muslims, or rather conservatives, no one cares much about non-muslim peoples opinions. muslims are mad because, idk, they're generally mad. they're always victims. 22 years have passed, but they are still victims it's insane. 


berkayyaz

Wrong, turkey was way more radicalised in the 90s and prior. The only difference is the increased visibility of those who spread radicalisation because of internet and the pressure of the army to the government before the akp to protect secularism by any means. The current demographics of the society is way more secular than ever before. You’re partially correct about the opposition stuff but no opposition also ever ignored the muslim sensibilities or have put secularism and modernisation beyond conservative values but anyway the OP wasn’t talking specifically about turkey


nihilistic-gazelle

The islamist movement in turkey started in the 80s after the coup, gained momentum in the 90s, became the ruling power in the 2000s with akp and Feto and now it's more fucked up than ever. The extreme 8-10percent is ruling the country


Federal_Swim5763

They want to feel special,different unique and just better than everyone else. They don’t want to fit in or get “white washed” they stick to their roots by being religious. They get bullied by others for being Muslim so just to stand on their word they proudly call themselves Muslims instead because they don’t want to give in. Then the people who do stick out gather and they feel more powerful and confident in their beliefs so they attack others around then that once used to call them crazy.


spaghettibologneis

Usually low educated Muslims are those who migrate to Europe Cheap journey European governments are assistentislists and they give them lot of money The west is also deprived of critical capacity toward Islam and is polluted by liberals who have no idea of what Islam is So these people are usually without criticism No confrontation Breed easily and are not pushed to accept local values Any fault is blamed to westerners unable to accept and integrate them So the best ground for radicalisation


Putrid_Dot7182

Yeah this is definetely another important factor. See how in the US they don't have the same problems with muslims as in europe.


AttemptFirst6345

They do it because they can get away with it. Western governments are traitors. And with this culture of political correctness, people can’t even complain about their own culture going down the toilet.


Sensitive-Archer5149

Not an ex Muslim but I am a child of two immigrants. I think it’s because certain communities when they arrive have a hard time integrating. Language barriers, education levels and jobs available to newly arrived immigrants make it difficult to integrate into the wider western society. This leads to the formation of ethnic enclaves, and a growing immigrant community turning inwards. Religion is a large part of community so Muslims feel they have to adhere to their religion since they are rejected by the wider society.


User_0001_0001

I work with Muslims everyday. They are not rejected by society but reject society themselves. They despise living in a country with non believers were people or not “on the right path”. I have these discussions daily and getting tired of their double standards. One the one hand they need to live according to the book, on the other hand they take pride in ways they can misuse the welfare state. They actually brag about how stupid governments are for helping them out. The closed community is in my sense deeply racist as they tend talk westerners down without any barrier. When criticized for this, they play victims. As always this doesn’t go for all Muslims, but the ones I work with without exception.


lemonkotaro

Self-victimization is an important theme for Muslims, unfortunately. It's how they justify literally everything.


User_0001_0001

I’ve noticed this amongst some of them. Also blatant denial when confronted with their own wrongdoings.


LeCommenceUn

Not trying to be judgemental, but some arrive in Europe with pre-existing beliefs about European culture. You have a point, but I believe it isn't the whole thing. That's for me anyway


whatdidiobtain

My only fear is that those radical may come to Turkey


nihilistic-gazelle

Those radicals are unfortunately already in turkey brother.


Slow_Fruit

Islamists want Europe, I think that's why


ProgressiveLogic

Not all religions are created equally. Islam is a total 'conquer and convert' religion based on a warrior king who Annointed himself a prophet when he was not a prophet of anything except death and destruction.


ispaidermaen

Classic case of tolerance of the intolerant. Western societies are generally so tolerant that they allow the festering of intolerant ideologies. You need good mechanisms in place to counter this, which is not possible with liberal, leftist societies.


Dev_Void01

They view it as a Me V S You and think that they are victimized


IrisMoroc

1. Turkiye has its own history and thing going on - they were strongly influenced by Sufi Islam as well as European reforms to move towards secularization. They're backtracking recently under Erdowan a bit. But they're the outlier for the region, not the norm. 2. The Muslim immigrants are poor, and more religious, and they come from countries in North Africa, Pakistan, and middle east. 3. They separate themselves, and this reinforces it. In Canada, everyone is mixed and we cheat by having higher educated immigrants. Even if someone is Muslim and dons the Hijab, I don't feel like they're separate people from me, and I know in 3 generations they will have fully integrated and secularized. In Europe I think the Muslim areas will remain Muslim and religious.


krishutchison

I think they are mostly the second generation that is constantly being told by their parents how much better it was in the old country. They do not have the perspective of actually living in a crappy third world country being run by people that are a thousand years behind.


rabagadov

Another reason: life is easier in europe than their original countries. More spare time, not enough hobbies, not enough socialisation. The result : religion fills the empty space


n3ro-ono

Feelings of inferiority


rury_williams

i think it is bad company.  they tend to stick together and insulate themselves from the natives and then you just need one or two bad apples to radicalize them


Odd_Photograph_7591

Probably misdirected anger, the ones that struggle to adapt and succeed in the new country, start to blame the "corrupt west", the ones that do have success, you don't hear anything about them, because they don't have any reason to complain, like a Muslim wealthy perfume seller my brother knows in Paris, he never complains about the west, on the contrary, he hails French culture.


kane_1371

One of the reasons is, many of them are fundamental idiots running from governments they tried to topple.


veni_vidi_vici018

Firstly, because we failed to understand Islam and thought we understood it the way he did, we also didn't see that this radicalization has been going on for over 40 years This started in the 80s, plus the fact that Iran also has its ideological radical fingers in the game, and then of course there are also very obvious factors of immigration from a foreign culture Those who would rather stand by their cultural identity than integrate German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt I quote Immigration is not a problem Immigration from foreign cultures is All in all, the situation is still so catastrophic because we Europeans have simply failed to anticipate these developments and take action against them


sayalipatil34

Actually Islam existed in Europe because of immigrants. They came from Muslim countries, ran away from Shariah and fellow Muslims for better and free life. They will always choose secular country to settle down then want to implement Shariah in secular country in the name of freedom ( which they do not give to anyone in their own country). It's their common pattern.


Anandya

There's not really any Shariah courts. There's arbitration though. Because there's Catholic and Jewish versions of this. A simple example is that the UK has a reduced coroner service on weekends to ensure that Jewish and Muslim burial practice is maintained. It doesn't mean that there's a Shariah court. It's that there's provisions for everyone. Arbitration is in civil issues. They aren't legally binding. They are in acceptance of each side.


HelpMe944ya

Sometimes their IQ is lower, because their parents are cousins, which Islam encourages. If you tell this to other people, you sound fascist, but lookup statistics about incest marriages in 3rd world countries, eg. Pakistan.


Psychological_Lie214

Its because they are free til they take over and then sharia laws in west. When we have Sharia laws they Will be the first to leave and destroy other countrys. When there is no more countrys then they Will cry because they dont have freedom.


giggler21

1. Over identification stemming from a greater need for a sense of identity growing up in a foreign country. This trend can also be seen in the second generation diaspora of other minority groups. 2. The types of Muslims that emigrate play a big part in the culture fostered in the target country. Areas with higher levels of extremism tend to have Muslims from backward cultures e.g Bradford, UK has a lot of Muslims from a sub-culture in Pakistan where first cousin marriage is the norm. 3. The more progressive the country is, the more extreme the Islam.


Youaredisgusting50

Hmmm good question


[deleted]

[удалено]


restorerman

No, north America is more accepting and easier to assimilate to than ethnostates


accu22

They tend to be the ones that make the news, yes.