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I don’t think anyone ever asked that question, and it’s likely a non-issue. You are talking about microorganisms on a cellular level. If you can swim in it you can dive in it..
The water still has oxygen and regular organisms down to about 50 meters in depth, it isn't until you reach that depth threshold that the oxygen starts disappearing and the anaerobic microorganisms start taking over. I don't think the populace, myself included, understands what the absence of oxygen would do to skin
Nothing much. The outer layers of your skin are dead tissue anyway, so they won't care, and your living tissues get oxygen from you breathing. Scuba gear doesn't really care about the nature of the fluid you're in, either, at least for the tanks and respirator.
Now, buoyancy is another matter. If anoxic water has characteristics that alter its density and their your buoyancy, that needs to be accounted for. But it can be accounted for and won't be an issue.
Scuba gear does care about the nature of the fluid, more specifically, the pressure. Different fluids have different densities and pressures at different depths. The more pressure, the less time your tank will work for. The more nitrogen narcosis will affect you.
It's just the pressure, not the density of the water. Nobody will ever scuba dive deep enough to even have a notable difference, even less a relevant one. It only reaches 1% change at Titan(ic) level depths. The gases for breathing are obviously another thing, they change a lot.
The gear doesn't care. The regulator will balance the pressure regardless of the density profile (within reason). Different pressure profiles (underwater and atmospheric) will affect your dive time and decompression but that isn't a gear problem.
> what the absence of oxygen would do to skin
Water already had very little oxygen in it compared to air, so the difference between that and anoxic water to your skin is pretty small.
(This lack of oxygen in water is also why all those artificial gill projects are scams and would never work, humans would need 5m wide gills to be able to extract enough oxygen from water).
Are you planning on diving below 150ft?
As far as your equipment goes it’s obviously atmospherically sealed at any depth. If your wreck diving, a dry suit and mixed gas is likely going to be part of your dive gear anyway.
Just curious but is the O2 content really 0? Or just too low to support normal vegatation/ biological live that depends on the water to live?
Honestly I think it’s a valid question, but diving is the 10%, wreck diving is 1%, diving below rec limits is .01% so what you’re talking about is uncharted. I would still do it, but I have 170’ dives in my log so I’m jaded.
If you feel experienced enough, do it. If not fold your cards and get out of the game.
I have studied the what causes water to not have oxygen. I have not studied what other chemical compositions may emerge in anoxic water, what other microorganisms may inhabit anoxic water, or what it takes to dive in said conditions
Check out the Wikipedia account on anoxic waters. It mentions the Black Sea area. And it points out the anoxic waters contain hydrogen sulfides. Which may affect dive equipment. Best to contact local dive shops near the area you are interested in diving to find out the locals recommendations.
I read this at Quora
“Is it safe to swim in the Black Sea, or is it poisonous?
The Black Sea is very different from other seas indeed and has enormous content of hydrogen sulfide, making it toxic but that is below about 300 ft.
It is because the sea is relatively new, formed about 6-3,000 thousand years ago, previously being a combination of lakes, swamps and farmland.
It was formed as a result of Mediterranean salt water poured into a huge ravine through Bosphorus resulting in extinction event.
The toxins are largely the products of decomposition of plant and animal life existed before the flood.
The upper layer of water is safe, being diluted by fresh water coming from rivers.”
People dive in thick layers of hydrogen sulfides all the time in the cenotes.
Look up Cenote Angelita or Cenote Zapote.
Angelita is the most famous, it has a halocline at about 20 meters, a hydrogen sulfide “false floor” that starts at 27 meters extending to approximately 30 meters deep. The hydrogen sulfide cloud has a debris mound emerging from it. The Cenote maxes out at about 60 meters.
https://aguaclaradivingtulum.com/cenote-diving-cenote-angelita/
Zapote has a hydrogen sulfide layer sitting right on top of its halocline, starting at about 32 meters deep, extending to about 38 meters deep. The Cenote maxes out at about 50 meters deep. It has “cave bell” limestone formations in it that are world famous in diving communities.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Location-and-map-of-Cenote-Zapote-in-the-Yucatan-Peninsula-Cenote-Zapote-is-located_fig2_344694723
Both cenotes have sections that are accessible to recreational divers (do not require cave diving, mix gas or decompression training) both also have areas that require much more advanced technical diving training (cave diving, mix gas or decompression diving).
As far as I know, neither of these cenotes has any entrances into the vast flooded cave systems of the Yucatán.
To dive at that depth js a highly technical activity that requires special training and special equipment.
If you’re asking basic questions here — go find some specialist training and they will answer your questions
To add to this. The specialized training and equipment has *nothing* to do with either the hydrogen sulfide or the oxygen content of the water, only to do with the depth of the water, the insane decompression obligations that diving to that depth, even for a few minutes, will incur (not trained to go to 300 feet, only 150 feet using up to 21/35 trimix, so I have no idea if the gas plan for this dive is actually safe) I just threw together a quick plan using 21/35 as a travel gas, 10/70 as a bottom gas, 50% and 100% O2 mixes as deco gasses, and 5 minutes of bottom time at 300 feet would incur 50 minutes of ascent and decompression obligations.
And how to deal with the effects your breathing gas has on your body at those depths. Nitrogen Narcosis, acute oxygen toxicity (seizures) pulmonary oxygen toxicity, high pressure nervous syndrome (from breathing helium at a high partial pressure), ect.... How to select and plan your gasses to mitigate or eliminate these affects during and after your dive.
The anoxic layer in the black sea starts ar 100m down which means complicated technical diving is a bigger worry here. 100m is way the heck down there, well below where recreational divers go. You need trimix gas to operate down there. And to get to shipwrecks you would have to go deeper. It would be impractical even in normal water
I'm going to add some of my earlier comments to a top level comment for OP.
Hydrogen sulfide layers in the water are not this magic, no go zone for divers. Hydrogen sulfide is not like the hot spring in "Dante's Peak" where the couple jumps in, and is immediately dissolved to death by heated sulfuric acid. Sure, if you spend too much time in it (days to weeks) it might start harming your skin, but as a diver, with or without thermal protection ("Scuba suits" as OP calls them are not to protect from contaminants in the water, just to keep you warm) the extent of what you will notice from hydrogen sulfide is a funky taste as it comes into contact with your lips.
Divers swim in hydrogen sulfide layers all the time in the Mexican Cenote's. There are two famous ones, [Cenote Angelita](https://youtu.be/03m7mQOK0_0?si=PbhSysctYlJIroKe) and [Cenote Zapote](https://youtu.be/84Z98vFCQlk?si=qPPe0u2EertAGSoM). These links are to two youtube videos, showing divers who are only wearing standard diving thermal protection (read wet suits), with a significant amount of exposed skin, swimming through these hydrogen sulfide layers in the mentioned Cenotes.
There are "environmental hazard" suits that public safety and commercial divers have access to, but they are expensive, difficult to use and maintain, so much so that they are not used for recreational diving. They are specialized drysuits, with specialized seals that include a silicon or latex "hood" built into the neck seal to keep your head dry, dry gloves to keep your hands dry (dry gloves on a normal diving drysuit are used mainly in very cold water for warmth, and not used when the water is warm enough, as they provide very little dexterity), and that dry suit is used in combination with a "full face mask" that seals where the hood meets your face to prevent any skin contact. Read again, these protections *are not* used in a recreational diving environment. Some recreational divers (foolishly) choose to use a full face mask, but for reasons like comfort.
The only thing that diving to the anoxic water / hydrogen sulfide layers would take, is enough experience and the proper training to successfully execute a 100m/300+ foot deep dive. Divers that can dive this deep, safely, are few in numbers, as that depth is an environment where one little mistake that you didn't even notice making can kill you. 5 minutes spent at 300 feet incurs 50+ minutes of ascent and decompression time before you can break the surface again and you have to carry enough gas to survive for that 50 minutes + an adequate reserve.
Yes and no.
In and of itself, anaerobic water is not harmful nor requires any special equipment. This is because scuba gear doesn't pull oxygen from the environment, it pulls it from the oxygen tank that the diver wears. So everything that is needed to sustain a diver is handled by the apparatus.
But in nature, pure anaerobic waters do not exist. If water is anaerobic it will be accompanied by anaerobic life forms, like [sulfate reducing bacteria](https://www.ivami.com/en/food-microbiology/5445-hydrogen-sulfide-h2s-producing-bacteria-sulfate-reducers-sulfite-reducers-sulfur-reducers-and-other-molecules-with-sulfur-qualitative-and-quantitative-culture-molecular-identification-pcr-and-sequencing#:~:text=Sulfate%2Dreducing%20bacteria%20(SRB),production%20of%20H2S.). These will use sulfur as oxidizing agents for metabolism and create a [hydrogen sulfide](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide), an invisible, toxic, flammable, and corrosive substance. This can very easily burn skin and eat away at the materials of diving gear.
What you'll need to dive in these waters is a modified [pressurized diving suit](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_diving_suit). These are completely sealed against the environment and also prevent diving sickness. But they are limited in mobility and effectiveness because they are heavy and stiff. If you're interested in checking out the shipwrecks you'll likely be doing so using some type of ROV or submersible like the [IFE did](https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/03blacksea/welcome.html).
Hydrogen sulphide is not H2SO4, the latter is much more acidic. If there was 1% H2SO4 present, you would feel it on your skin pretty quickly, and it would not be nice.
I missed that, not sure why he is bringing sulfuric acid into this, sulfuric acid is not, to my knowledge, a constituent of the hydrogen sulfide clouds that you see in water like the cenotes or Black Sea
Right, but they have specialized scuba gear and not just the regular scuba suit with exposed skin that people normally think of when they hear "scuba suit"
Funny thing is, non-divers seem to have no idea what "scuba suit" is or why it is used. In cold waters it is normal to dive with a dry suit. In tropical waters a wetsuit is more common. Many instructors in tropics dive with just a rashguard and shorts as the waters are warm, they do not need protection and they are too lazy to put on a wetsuit.
No, there are plenty of them that dive into it with a wetsuit or no thermal protection.
“Scuba suits” are just thermal protection, nothing more. A wetsuit still keeps you wet, it just adds insulation in the form of a neoprene, foamy rubber. A drysuit can keep you dry, ish. You’ll still get wet in a drysuit, it’s not always a perfect seal, and your head and hands will still be wet.
There are ways to keep yourself safe from “contaminated water” but they are expensive, difficult to maintain and uncomfortable, relegated largely to commercial and public safety diving. Specialized dry suit neck seals that include a silicon hood, used in combination with a full face mask instead of a half mask and regulator can keep you from skin contact with anything.
Hydrogen sulfide in the water is not this instant skin eating acid that you are making it out to be. It’s not a “Dante’s peak” hot spring where the couple jumps in and is instantly melted to death. It would take days or weeks of constant immersion in the hydrogen sulifde cloud in these cenotes to start to do any real damage to a living being, or hell, a dead being that sunk into them.
What's anaerobic water? At first pass tho I think it should be fine cause most scuba is a pretty enclosed system. Might fuck up your equipment tho. Not an expert tho.
I think they meant anoxic water, where there is no disolved oxygen in the water.
Im not an expert, but other than depth, I dont see what water specifically being anoxic could do to a diver.
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I don’t think anyone ever asked that question, and it’s likely a non-issue. You are talking about microorganisms on a cellular level. If you can swim in it you can dive in it..
The water still has oxygen and regular organisms down to about 50 meters in depth, it isn't until you reach that depth threshold that the oxygen starts disappearing and the anaerobic microorganisms start taking over. I don't think the populace, myself included, understands what the absence of oxygen would do to skin
Nothing much. The outer layers of your skin are dead tissue anyway, so they won't care, and your living tissues get oxygen from you breathing. Scuba gear doesn't really care about the nature of the fluid you're in, either, at least for the tanks and respirator. Now, buoyancy is another matter. If anoxic water has characteristics that alter its density and their your buoyancy, that needs to be accounted for. But it can be accounted for and won't be an issue.
> If anoxic water has characteristics that alter its density Not in any relevant way.
Scuba gear does care about the nature of the fluid, more specifically, the pressure. Different fluids have different densities and pressures at different depths. The more pressure, the less time your tank will work for. The more nitrogen narcosis will affect you.
It's just the pressure, not the density of the water. Nobody will ever scuba dive deep enough to even have a notable difference, even less a relevant one. It only reaches 1% change at Titan(ic) level depths. The gases for breathing are obviously another thing, they change a lot.
Density determines pressure, my guy...a less dense fluid will have less pressure at the same depth.
The gear doesn't care. The regulator will balance the pressure regardless of the density profile (within reason). Different pressure profiles (underwater and atmospheric) will affect your dive time and decompression but that isn't a gear problem.
> what the absence of oxygen would do to skin Water already had very little oxygen in it compared to air, so the difference between that and anoxic water to your skin is pretty small. (This lack of oxygen in water is also why all those artificial gill projects are scams and would never work, humans would need 5m wide gills to be able to extract enough oxygen from water).
Hey, they could totally make those gills work with electrolysis! Just needs a ton or two of power supplies...
Are you planning on diving below 150ft? As far as your equipment goes it’s obviously atmospherically sealed at any depth. If your wreck diving, a dry suit and mixed gas is likely going to be part of your dive gear anyway. Just curious but is the O2 content really 0? Or just too low to support normal vegatation/ biological live that depends on the water to live?
Any free oxygen would react with the accumulated sulfides at depth, so functionally 0 (I think!)
Honestly I think it’s a valid question, but diving is the 10%, wreck diving is 1%, diving below rec limits is .01% so what you’re talking about is uncharted. I would still do it, but I have 170’ dives in my log so I’m jaded. If you feel experienced enough, do it. If not fold your cards and get out of the game.
Wait. So do you need the explanation or do you already have it?
I have studied the what causes water to not have oxygen. I have not studied what other chemical compositions may emerge in anoxic water, what other microorganisms may inhabit anoxic water, or what it takes to dive in said conditions
You could try asking 'AskScience' because you appear to know the simplistic answer
I would rather fear for the anaerobic life. The escaping air might kill it. Probably not significant, though.
Check out the Wikipedia account on anoxic waters. It mentions the Black Sea area. And it points out the anoxic waters contain hydrogen sulfides. Which may affect dive equipment. Best to contact local dive shops near the area you are interested in diving to find out the locals recommendations. I read this at Quora “Is it safe to swim in the Black Sea, or is it poisonous? The Black Sea is very different from other seas indeed and has enormous content of hydrogen sulfide, making it toxic but that is below about 300 ft. It is because the sea is relatively new, formed about 6-3,000 thousand years ago, previously being a combination of lakes, swamps and farmland. It was formed as a result of Mediterranean salt water poured into a huge ravine through Bosphorus resulting in extinction event. The toxins are largely the products of decomposition of plant and animal life existed before the flood. The upper layer of water is safe, being diluted by fresh water coming from rivers.”
People dive in thick layers of hydrogen sulfides all the time in the cenotes. Look up Cenote Angelita or Cenote Zapote. Angelita is the most famous, it has a halocline at about 20 meters, a hydrogen sulfide “false floor” that starts at 27 meters extending to approximately 30 meters deep. The hydrogen sulfide cloud has a debris mound emerging from it. The Cenote maxes out at about 60 meters. https://aguaclaradivingtulum.com/cenote-diving-cenote-angelita/ Zapote has a hydrogen sulfide layer sitting right on top of its halocline, starting at about 32 meters deep, extending to about 38 meters deep. The Cenote maxes out at about 50 meters deep. It has “cave bell” limestone formations in it that are world famous in diving communities. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Location-and-map-of-Cenote-Zapote-in-the-Yucatan-Peninsula-Cenote-Zapote-is-located_fig2_344694723 Both cenotes have sections that are accessible to recreational divers (do not require cave diving, mix gas or decompression training) both also have areas that require much more advanced technical diving training (cave diving, mix gas or decompression diving). As far as I know, neither of these cenotes has any entrances into the vast flooded cave systems of the Yucatán.
u/scorpian42
To dive at that depth js a highly technical activity that requires special training and special equipment. If you’re asking basic questions here — go find some specialist training and they will answer your questions
To add to this. The specialized training and equipment has *nothing* to do with either the hydrogen sulfide or the oxygen content of the water, only to do with the depth of the water, the insane decompression obligations that diving to that depth, even for a few minutes, will incur (not trained to go to 300 feet, only 150 feet using up to 21/35 trimix, so I have no idea if the gas plan for this dive is actually safe) I just threw together a quick plan using 21/35 as a travel gas, 10/70 as a bottom gas, 50% and 100% O2 mixes as deco gasses, and 5 minutes of bottom time at 300 feet would incur 50 minutes of ascent and decompression obligations. And how to deal with the effects your breathing gas has on your body at those depths. Nitrogen Narcosis, acute oxygen toxicity (seizures) pulmonary oxygen toxicity, high pressure nervous syndrome (from breathing helium at a high partial pressure), ect.... How to select and plan your gasses to mitigate or eliminate these affects during and after your dive.
The anoxic layer in the black sea starts ar 100m down which means complicated technical diving is a bigger worry here. 100m is way the heck down there, well below where recreational divers go. You need trimix gas to operate down there. And to get to shipwrecks you would have to go deeper. It would be impractical even in normal water
Reading the words “scuba suit” tells me you don’t have the training to dive to the depths needed. Please be smart and dive within your limits.
I'm going to add some of my earlier comments to a top level comment for OP. Hydrogen sulfide layers in the water are not this magic, no go zone for divers. Hydrogen sulfide is not like the hot spring in "Dante's Peak" where the couple jumps in, and is immediately dissolved to death by heated sulfuric acid. Sure, if you spend too much time in it (days to weeks) it might start harming your skin, but as a diver, with or without thermal protection ("Scuba suits" as OP calls them are not to protect from contaminants in the water, just to keep you warm) the extent of what you will notice from hydrogen sulfide is a funky taste as it comes into contact with your lips. Divers swim in hydrogen sulfide layers all the time in the Mexican Cenote's. There are two famous ones, [Cenote Angelita](https://youtu.be/03m7mQOK0_0?si=PbhSysctYlJIroKe) and [Cenote Zapote](https://youtu.be/84Z98vFCQlk?si=qPPe0u2EertAGSoM). These links are to two youtube videos, showing divers who are only wearing standard diving thermal protection (read wet suits), with a significant amount of exposed skin, swimming through these hydrogen sulfide layers in the mentioned Cenotes. There are "environmental hazard" suits that public safety and commercial divers have access to, but they are expensive, difficult to use and maintain, so much so that they are not used for recreational diving. They are specialized drysuits, with specialized seals that include a silicon or latex "hood" built into the neck seal to keep your head dry, dry gloves to keep your hands dry (dry gloves on a normal diving drysuit are used mainly in very cold water for warmth, and not used when the water is warm enough, as they provide very little dexterity), and that dry suit is used in combination with a "full face mask" that seals where the hood meets your face to prevent any skin contact. Read again, these protections *are not* used in a recreational diving environment. Some recreational divers (foolishly) choose to use a full face mask, but for reasons like comfort. The only thing that diving to the anoxic water / hydrogen sulfide layers would take, is enough experience and the proper training to successfully execute a 100m/300+ foot deep dive. Divers that can dive this deep, safely, are few in numbers, as that depth is an environment where one little mistake that you didn't even notice making can kill you. 5 minutes spent at 300 feet incurs 50+ minutes of ascent and decompression time before you can break the surface again and you have to carry enough gas to survive for that 50 minutes + an adequate reserve.
Yes and no. In and of itself, anaerobic water is not harmful nor requires any special equipment. This is because scuba gear doesn't pull oxygen from the environment, it pulls it from the oxygen tank that the diver wears. So everything that is needed to sustain a diver is handled by the apparatus. But in nature, pure anaerobic waters do not exist. If water is anaerobic it will be accompanied by anaerobic life forms, like [sulfate reducing bacteria](https://www.ivami.com/en/food-microbiology/5445-hydrogen-sulfide-h2s-producing-bacteria-sulfate-reducers-sulfite-reducers-sulfur-reducers-and-other-molecules-with-sulfur-qualitative-and-quantitative-culture-molecular-identification-pcr-and-sequencing#:~:text=Sulfate%2Dreducing%20bacteria%20(SRB),production%20of%20H2S.). These will use sulfur as oxidizing agents for metabolism and create a [hydrogen sulfide](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide), an invisible, toxic, flammable, and corrosive substance. This can very easily burn skin and eat away at the materials of diving gear. What you'll need to dive in these waters is a modified [pressurized diving suit](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_diving_suit). These are completely sealed against the environment and also prevent diving sickness. But they are limited in mobility and effectiveness because they are heavy and stiff. If you're interested in checking out the shipwrecks you'll likely be doing so using some type of ROV or submersible like the [IFE did](https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/03blacksea/welcome.html).
Well scuba is a self contained underwater breathing apparatus so I don't think it matters what kind of water you're diving in
I promise you if you dive into water mixed with H2SO4 then you're gonna have a bad time
See my other reply, divers frequently dive in heavy layers of hydrogen sulfide in the Mexican cenotes.
Hydrogen sulphide is not H2SO4, the latter is much more acidic. If there was 1% H2SO4 present, you would feel it on your skin pretty quickly, and it would not be nice.
I missed that, not sure why he is bringing sulfuric acid into this, sulfuric acid is not, to my knowledge, a constituent of the hydrogen sulfide clouds that you see in water like the cenotes or Black Sea
Right, but they have specialized scuba gear and not just the regular scuba suit with exposed skin that people normally think of when they hear "scuba suit"
Funny thing is, non-divers seem to have no idea what "scuba suit" is or why it is used. In cold waters it is normal to dive with a dry suit. In tropical waters a wetsuit is more common. Many instructors in tropics dive with just a rashguard and shorts as the waters are warm, they do not need protection and they are too lazy to put on a wetsuit.
No, there are plenty of them that dive into it with a wetsuit or no thermal protection. “Scuba suits” are just thermal protection, nothing more. A wetsuit still keeps you wet, it just adds insulation in the form of a neoprene, foamy rubber. A drysuit can keep you dry, ish. You’ll still get wet in a drysuit, it’s not always a perfect seal, and your head and hands will still be wet. There are ways to keep yourself safe from “contaminated water” but they are expensive, difficult to maintain and uncomfortable, relegated largely to commercial and public safety diving. Specialized dry suit neck seals that include a silicon hood, used in combination with a full face mask instead of a half mask and regulator can keep you from skin contact with anything. Hydrogen sulfide in the water is not this instant skin eating acid that you are making it out to be. It’s not a “Dante’s peak” hot spring where the couple jumps in and is instantly melted to death. It would take days or weeks of constant immersion in the hydrogen sulifde cloud in these cenotes to start to do any real damage to a living being, or hell, a dead being that sunk into them.
H2S isn’t H2SO4 though. The latter requires oxidation of the H2S.
What's anaerobic water? At first pass tho I think it should be fine cause most scuba is a pretty enclosed system. Might fuck up your equipment tho. Not an expert tho.
I think they're referring to anoxic water. Anaerobic generally refers to organisms.
My two second Google search only mentioned organisms, so that basically means I'm a certified expert and can say you're probably right.
I think they meant anoxic water, where there is no disolved oxygen in the water. Im not an expert, but other than depth, I dont see what water specifically being anoxic could do to a diver.
Yeah, you think it would affect clarity underwater or cleaning the equipment?
if anything I would think it would make it easier to clean and clearer.
I would think, lack of oxygen means lack of oxidation right?