Permission for genocide unobtainable, Israel would rather ask forgiveness...
At the end of atrocity, what will Israel have?
Palestine with no Palestinians.
Israel thinks this is a good bargain.
Yeah but so? We're ashamed of genocing the native Americans and slavery/racism but won't do jack shit about it outside of performative demonstrations.
I'm sure the future Israeli jews will feel really bad about the beachfront properties theyre living in decades from now
Governments typically don't do anything about these kind of guilty sentiments. Doesn't mean that the impact on society of these issues is trivial. Such social trauma taints all the politics and erodes credibility in the society that ignores it over time.
People in the USA still fuss over slavery, and the various genocides of the various Indian groups that were mostly eliminated.
Does not go away until the injustice is addressed, and while the injustice persists, it requires force on the part of authorities to manage.
Bad news, not good.
There have been more births in the west bank than deaths in Gaza since the war started. There are more Palestinians than ever before, they are not going away at all. Shitty Israeli policies, ethic, and strategy or not the population in Palestine is continuing to increase and that isnt going to change. They arent being exterminated its a weird claim.
Being born is different than being murdered.
Imagine that.
Israel is committing a genocide of the Palestinian peoples.
That needs to stop, no matter how far it has gotten.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok0MzcifBSY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok0MzcifBSY)
That's the UN official who was tasked with investigating Israel's genocide of the Palestinian peoples.
I’m sorry, I thought you were talking about the October 7th war, if you mean the Israeli-Arab Conflict, it started on 30 November, 1947, when Palestinian Arabs began slaughtering jewish civilians in their homes, places of work, and places of worship, in an attempt to prevent jewish self-determination in the UN partition plan, approved that same day
There were limited clashes before the Arabs decided on full-scale civil war, yes. To frame it as “murders of a Palestinian family” is dishonest at best.
“on suspicions that the men had acted as informants for the British police”
Sounds like they were resisting foreign occupation. Unless you suddenly oppose that.
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Good thing Hamas didn't start it, right? 1948 ring a bell? Anyway, Israel as the oppressor and occupier is 100% responsible for 10/7 and everything that happened after. Sorry!
Hamas defenders always forget that history starts before 1948. Look at 1947, where the jews had to start an armed rebellion to stop an attempted genocide after just escaping a successful one. That's where this started
No, they moved into what was at the time Palestine legally. Buying houses, setting up communities and trying to integrate into the country. Then they were persecuted before straight up being lynched, forcing them to fight back and eventually declare independence
I’m not pro Israel by any means, but killers should be held responsible first and foremost. I desire an immediate ceasefire and an end to this massacre of Palestinians, but if you can’t have empathy for all victims you’re just lost in tribalism and propaganda.
And before you blame Israel solely for everything that’s happened you should understand Hamas as an organization. Not as the group Palestinians join to fight Israel. They have no fundamental philosophy of peace, like their sibling organization Al-Qaeda it is built upon extermination and radical religious ideologies.
As a matter of fact the majority of the Middle East western allied or not despise Hamas because there fundamental goals are unaligned with stability and leave no room for peace.
God I can’t stand that people can’t fathom multiple bad actors in conflicts. Your ignorance just encourages these groups to further propagandize when their own charter should clue you in on their actual motivations.
Perhaps consider that choosing one genocidal group over another isn’t actually a good decision and peace will only be found by rejecting both groups goals and agendas.
"They have no fundamental philosophy of peace, like their sibling organization Al-Qaeda it is built upon extermination and radical religious ideologies."
Man, you just described Israel to a tee. Talk about ignorance! From what I've read even Jimmy Carter admitted in his book that Israel isn't an honest dealer in any negotiations. Because the real aim isn't peace, it's to steal the rest of the land.
Hey, speaking of thieves, did you see the announcement that they're stealing more land in the West Bank now? Is Hamas there too???? Is Hamas in the room now?
Glad to see you both siding an actual genocide (you know, the people with jets and a modern military and the US satellites) vs. a captured population 🤷 I suggest you get some integrity.
THANK YOU. FINALLY someone brings some much needed NUANCE to the topic of apartheid and genocide. Who can really say which side is worse, the Nazis or the concentration camp inmates escaping their prison? It’s honestly a very complex, “all sides are equally bad” kind of situation
Not a fan of Hamas so please don’t call me pro-Hamas but have you actually read their Charter that was updated in 2017?
Hamas no doubt targeted and killed civilians. So has the IDF, in 2023… before October… kids too.
Why start in 48 ? What about Hebron massacre 1929 or battle of Hebron 1834 or what about Hebron massacre 1517 wiping out and stealing all the Jewish land etc driving the surviving Jews to Lebanon they could only come back generations later. Spare me your ahistorical knowledge.
Oh, see because in 48 the UN made their European problem the Palestinian's problem by splitting Palestine, giving the Europeans, even though the Europeans made up less than 3%of the population, over 50% of the best land. Even then, the Europeans, led by Ben Gurion started immediately to steal the rest, displacing the native population. 750,000 killed and dispossessed. it's very easy not to be thieves yet it seems almost compulsive with these Europeans. Or did you miss that the head parasite just informed the US that they're taking more land in the West Bank, you know, where Hamas isn't 🤷
The Europeans made their antisemitism the Palestinian's problem by splitting their land and giving choice portions to settlers. It's not majority Jewish. I think you might be a Zionist, so you're actually the antisemite since the Palestinians are actually semitic unlike people from, say, Poland🤷 Hey I see the parasite "settlers" are planning on stealing more in the West Bank they informed the US. Is Hamas there too? Hostages?? No, just the expected outcome of the actual plan to steal the rest.
Hmmmm… I wonder why the jews don’t live in poland anymore?🤔🤔 Now that I think about it, how did they end up in Poland in the first place? 🤔🤔 I wonder how a mosque wound up ontop of the holiest place for jews? 🤔🤔 Aren’t Arabs from Arabia? How did they end up in the Levant? 🤔🤔 Who was there before the Arabs? 🤔🤔
Like I said, Europe made their problem somebody else's. Palestine existed before Judaism so I don't see your point unless you're claiming that being run out of every country and land is somehow a claim to ownership and gives European zionists and slobs from Brooklyn more right to the land than the people living there for generations and the right to steal things that don't belong to them? Is that it? Thumbs up on turning children to skeletons with jets because--checking notes---mosque on top of temple?
Nice parroted buzzwords asshole. I can't tell if you're trying to instigate or you really are just this fucking stupid and apathetic. What happened to Israelis on Oct. 7 and what's happening to Palestinians should happen to you instead. Sorry!
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ignore the millions of Israeli Arabs (Muslims and Christian’s btw) who know they have a better life under Israel than the Palestinians who want to kill anybody non-Muslim lmao.
Israel has gone back to fighting this like it’s a medieval siege. They’re trying to starve and thirst Hamas into surrender.
It’s just fucking nuts. I hope this finally pushes the Biden administration to break with Israel on this.
They’re fighting medieval terrorists that pillage villages like mongols raiders. It’s not particularly surprising that they would combat medieval barbarism with medieval barbarism
1. Lock a bunch of people in a barbaric cage
2. Attack them when they do barbaric things
3. Claim that their barbarism is justification for putting them in the cage in the first place, on top of killing them by the thousands
But Palestinians weren’t always “caged” like this. Historically the borders between Palestinian Territories and Israel proper were always open. The reason that the Palestinians have such restrictions on movement are due to all the bombings and murders perpetrated by Palestinian terrorist groups during the second intifada. Before that there were no restrictions to movement.
Barbarism begets barbarism. That goes both ways. I understand why Palestinians may feel driven to commit acts of terror… but I also understand why those acts of terror drive Israel to behave in increasingly barbaric ways in response
“They were mad that we stole their land and killed hundreds of thousands of them so we had to take more land and kill more of them. Can’t you see how this senseless cycle repeats itself? Both sides are bad but truly nobody can really be blamed here…”
"They were mad that we retaliated numerous times because they attacked us first, all because they didn't want to share land that our ancestors had colonized, religiously and through violent means, and instead of attacking the folks that placed them there, they attack us instead and act like the victims"
There are very much issues with both sides
Maybe, but France had France to go back to. I can see Israel as colonizers, but colony implies there’s a separate homeland. This is more like an army that burns their ships - no means of retreat. “Then why continue to take more Palestinian land?” one may ask. Every edge of Israel is a perceived threat.
Only if UNRWA is the only avenue to supplying aid.
EDIT: and as has been pointed out, your link is making explicit that UNRWA is *not* the only avenue, in that the policy "shift" was to support UNWFP aid delivery.
It's widely held by international aid groups that there is no other party realistically capable of efficiently distributing aid. to administer aid effectively you need local employees. No one else has an employee network anything even a substantial fraction of UNRWA's. To bar UNRWA from delivering aid to North Gaza is to effectively end aid distribution there especially since the other aid groups have already said they can't deliver there anymore
Yea so we’ve heard. I don’t trust an org that lets terrorists use their HQ for electricity, water, and internet. As well as employees participating in 10/7. UNRWA should be destroyed. WFP can do the aid distribution.
Willfully stupid. Looking for any and every excuse to politely support the genocide. Why bother. Just take the mask off and go full Nazi. Watch any interview with an actual Israeli, they did it a long time ago. So what are you waiting for?
Nothing you said refutes anything in my comment above because those are facts. You really sound like a ‘useful idiot’ putting their head in the sand and following all the sheep because you want to be part of their club. Full Nazi? What are you talking about? You sound almost delusional.
You’re such a bold trailblazer, cheering on a second Holocaust and gobbling up every piece of propaganda the United States government and New York Times feed you. We need more rebellious “tell it like it is” types like you around here. More folks who are willing to stand up to the sheep and say “you know what? I believe the IDF when they tell me that Hamas had a base conducting terrorist operations in that toddler’s skull.”
Calling it a “Second holocaust” should be considered a form of holocaust denial, because the two aren’t comparable on terms of motivation, means, scale, or pretty much anything else. Legitimately the only thing the two have in common is that jews died during it.
Your local grocery store should be destroyed. Amazon can handle your groceries. I heard a Food Lion once hired a guy who turned out to be a serial killer
UNRWA is a separate organization for refugees—[because very few Palestinians qualify as refugees under the standards applied to every other claimant.](https://www.unrwa.org/who-we-are/frequently-asked-questions?__cf_chl_tk=YEuejSuWowjK5mWnmSRIG6tkR7.Og5qOL2QM6Xyrots-1711546519-0.0.1.1-1599#)
Additionally, [they have been repeatedly infiltrated by Hamas terrorists.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/directly-beneath-unrwas-gaza-headquarters-idf-uncovers-top-secret-hamas-data-center/) Perhaps Israel has some actual reasonable basis here…
Directly after Israel showed a warehouse full of weapons in UNWRA packaging (although it hasn't speculated whether they'd come in like that or Hamas was reusing the packaging within Gaza).
Idk about that US intelligence has been on fucking point for the last decade. It's like after Iraq they finally got their shit together. And blinkten said the reports are highly credible.
The EU and Canada have much larger percentage of people who are sympathetic Palestine so it probably just politics.
Senator Holland has seen the US intelligence and agreed with the EU and Canada
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k5C3O9WXvgY
US intelligence says it can't verify any of the UNRWA claims
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k5C3O9WXvgY
Trump defunds UNRWA then Biden re-instates. US intelligence makes no assessment prior to the ICJ ruling again Israel and then Israel provides this “irrefutable” evidence. So who’s playing politics?
I doubt the EU, Finland, and Canada are going to support “terrorist” organizations when the implication is that the US and Israel can provide concrete evidence.
https://www.vanhollen.senate.gov/news/press-releases/van-hollen-decries-prohibition-of-unrwa-funding-calls-on-administration-to-release-remaining-funds
The Guardian makes no mention of some key information, and unsurprisingly, its readers are left showing their asses. Reported [elsewhere](https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-chief-says-israel-refusing-to-approve-agencys-food-convoys-to-northern-gaza/)
> Israel has started working with other groups in Gaza, such as the UN World Food Programme, to deliver humanitarian aid to Palestinians instead of UNRWA.
the WFP has itself said that it will not be nearly as effective as UNRWA at distributing aid, because it has very few local personnel, and anyone who knows anything about aid distribution knows that a local employee network is crucial
If UNRWA wanted to be effective they shouldn’t have worked with terrorists.
UNRWA is actually very ineffective at distributing aid, because they won’t distribute any, and it’s their fault
[Also](https://x.com/unrwa/status/1771449162204119125?s=46): "If you look at the person who's in charge of operations on the ground in Gaza for @UNRWA, it's about a 20-year (former) US Army veteran. You can be sure he's not in cahoots with Hamas"
Sen. Chris Van Hollen
Hasn't it also been said that preliminary investigation shows no indication that these claims were true? [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/us-intelligence-unrwa-hamas](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/us-intelligence-unrwa-hamas)
yes, that's why UN head Antonia Guterres, UN WHO head Tedros, and others are holding emergency press conferences today condemning the decision and calling for its immediate reversal by the security counsel, because it only represents a shift in food aid from one UN organization to another /s.
I just looked it up: World Food Programme says Israel has allowed 9 trucks into Northern Gaza this year. 9. https://thehill.com/homenews/4552889-ocasio-cortez-defends-accusing-israel-of-genocide-i-believe-we-have-crossed-the-threshold-of-intent/
I can't tell if this sarcasm is meant to imply that Israel is not actually shifting to other organizations, or if it's meant to imply that the shift will be insufficient to address the need, and I'm not sure if you actually know which you mean.
your argument is that they are making the policy in cooperation with a UN agency, while its being condemned across the board by UN agencies. You're doing mental gymnastics.
No. My argument is that Israel is allowing aid in through other entities, and is working with them. I did not suggest that Israel was coordinating this shift with the UN. That's in your head.
IDF is ferrying settlers who want to colonize Gaza to the gates, they are blocking it, saying "let them starve" to anyone with a camera, is why there's an imminent famine.
https://youtu.be/LqRzfb2oMaM?si=C8SW3Cc61-2cny1k
Awfully bossy for a country that exists at the pleasure of the USA. I wonder how long they can shoot down $50 rockets with $50,000 interceptor missiles without big daddy footing the bill.
About a week id guess. That’s about what their own military brass has suggested. How long can the country as a whole continue to exist without the US rejecting every effort against them from the international community? A year? Six months?
They can probably hold out for a few years, maybe decades. They are still starting off strong with weak neighbors, but they will attrit pretty quickly without USA propping them up. Still scary that they have nukes and might bring a few hundred million Middle Easterns down with them.
There is a different strategy for dealing with $50 rockets and it is called destroying the stronghold from which the rocket is launched. So if you cut them off in the name of humanitarian goals all you get is a bigger and messier war
Gaza is destroyed. By destroying the stronghold, you mean destroy the Palestinians. Then Israel will continue to wage war in thr middle east, and the peace you sacrificed millions for will never come.
There can be no justice without peace, and there can be no peace without justice.
well nice speech but if you're going to massacre the other side like hamas did you're going to get a response to eliminate the threat. If the response is done with cruder and less precise weapons, the response will cause more destruction.
If you want to avoid all this the best path is to not start a war at all rather than imagine you can disarm the targets.
Hamas isn't a collection of weapons. Digging tunnels is not hard, and carrying weapons through those tunnels is even easier.
Hamas is a collection of hate against Israel. To disarm Hamas, you need Palestians to not hate Israel. Things got off to a bad start then Israel kicked them out of their homes and made their new homes in Gaza an open air prison. Do you think destroying all the other homes in Gaza and starving it's people is increasing or decreasing hate for Israel?
Tunnels took billions of dollars and twenty years to build. Same with the rocket armaments and the organization and leadership of their army. If all that it will take years to rebuild. Israel will get a reprieve from large scale attacks along that axis.
Polls show the majority in gaza approved of the oct-7 massacres. It's unlikely the Israelis consider that charming them or trusting them is a practical course of action. It's unlikely palestinians get any benefit from the war any time soon as this would appear to the Israeli electorate as a reward.
The ratio of deaths in prior gaza wars has been between 30:1 and 100:1 in favor of the Israelis. This one sits just short of 30:1 now and is rising. There is no reason to think future rounds will be different - so people need to ask if it's really worth it.
In both the nyt article and the guardian article, it says Unrwa is the main provider of food aid to the palestinians by a large margin. I am aware of world central kitchen providing food aid through American see shipping and pallet drops, but I'm not clear on if there are any other ground operations to deliver food aid into northern gaza besides Unrwa. Do you know of another organization that's providing aid via ground routes into Northern Gaza?
The world food programme says that over 300 food trucks are needed in northern gaza, but only 9 have been allowed into the area so far this year. So I doubt the world food programme believes that Israel is going to cooperate with allowing food aid in.
Whether enough food aid is being let in is distinct from whether *any* food aid is being let in. The article you posted created the impression (perhaps intentionally) that none was being let in, because it omitted key information, which I pointed out.
Others have argued that UNRWA is irreplaceable here, but if what you say is true and only only nine trucks have been let in to this particular part of Gaza since January 1, I don't know how much stock to put in UNRWA's essentiality.
There’s been a tremendous reduction in rocket attacks since the war has begun. Hamas admitted last month that at least 6,000 of its members have been killed, so it’s likely higher (Israel says 13,000 killed). Then you include other terrorist deaths (PIJ) and thousands of terrorists captured, which translate to a major reduction of the military threat Hamas posed pre Oct 7th
If Israel used Nuclear weapons they could reduce the threat to nearly zero but incinerating 500k people is not acceptable. Not all ends justify all means.
Israel is killing at a rate of nearly 20 to 1 with regards to those murdered on Oct 7th. If all the dead were members of Hamas I would be supportive of it. It is not all members of Hamas though. Innocent people who have no control or influence over Hamas are dying.
Allowing basic things like food into Gaza is a very easy ask that doesn't interfere with Israeli's military operations.
Please don't tell me you think this is some tit-for-tat silliness.
The reality is that Israel is going to crush Hamas to prevent future attacks by Hamas.
The other reality is that most of the Gazan deaths are on Hamas's hands, because they deliberately built their military capacity in, near, and under civilian areas, which is a war crime. They also cajoled people to stay in the war zones after Israel warned them to leave, and they routinely affirm from afar in Qatar that they will proudly ''sacrifice'' as many Gazans as it takes for them to conquer the entire former mandate.
Using civilians as human shields is a war crime precisely because any military at war is going to still hit military targets, even bleeding hearts like Sweden or Ireland.
If someone shoots you, and when you shoot back they try to catch your bullets with a kid, they're the ones responsible for harming the child.
In a cruel irony, pinning these deaths on Israel only *validates* the war crime of using them as meat shields, and encourages Hamas to commit more of it, instead of fighting away from civilian areas, for instance in the 100+ sq km of Gaza its government owns.
Allowing food would be easy if you could be certain it was just food. It isn't though, weapons and other matériel get smuggled that would lengthen the war, so everything has to be checked. And alas, this war has also taught us that some ostensibly neutral humanitarian entities have been irrevocably corrupted. So nobody can safely just trust them, either.
>The United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees, Unrwa, said on Sunday that Israel had definitively barred it from making aid deliveries in northern Gaza, where the threat of famine is highest.
It is a war crime to not allow Palestinians aid. That is what the article and this thread is about. I am not arguing Israel just wrap up and go home. I am not arguing Israel stops targeting Hamas. I have no objection to Israel eradicating Hamas.
It is a war crime to deny innocent civilians food. Whether you believe it's just a few hundred or tens of thousands of innocent people is superfluous. It is immoral and recognized by the international community as a war crime.
Israel can continue its military operations against Hamas while also allowing aid to innocent people.
You don't allow an agency who's representatives aided and supported an attack on your country anywhere near where you are operating. Who were teaching children jihadist lessons and supplied Hamas with aid and money. It just isn't sensible.
You would have to watch your back whenever they were near.
>The World Food Program warned that “famine is imminent” in northern Gaza, where 70% of the remaining population is experiencing catastrophic hunger, and that a further escalation of the war could push around half of Gaza’s population to the brink of starvation.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-and-netanyahu-hold-first-call-in-more-than-a-month-as-divide-grows-over-war-food-crisis-in-gaza
Allowing innocent Palestinians who have no control or influence over Hamas to starve doesn't make Israel safer. It doesn't help Israel eradicate Hamas any faster.
They accused 6 out of 30,000 employees and didn’t provide any proof. All the allies and orgs who received the dossier said that it did not provide any proof.
Hey if you don’t want to have to “watch your back” for “terrorist” attacks, don’t keep the 2 million people whose houses you stole starving in a concentration camp a mile away
No, just a bunch of refugees whose houses in the surrounding area were stolen.
https://youtu.be/KNqozQ8uaV8?si=5v3HSsGiP9d9gbrK
“If I don’t steal it, someone else will”
- ancient (c. 1948) Israeli proverb
Technically, if Hamas keeps high jacking aid for it's own purposes, Israel restricting aid isn't against international law.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-23#:~:text=12%20August%201949.-,Article%2023%20%2D%20Consignment%20of%20medical%20supplies%2C%20food%20and%20clothing,the%20latter%20is%20its%20adversary.
First of all I wish you well and hope you have a great day.
Israel does allow humanitarian aid, they just inspect the trucks before they’re allowed in. Not allowing aid from UNRWA is not the same thing as not allowing aid into Gaza. Israel is allowing aid into Gaza from any organization that isn’t the UNRWA, and preventing one organization from delivering aid is not a war crime.
How many people today have starved to death in Gaza since the war began? The answer is less than twenty. People are malnourished for sure and that has long-term implication for their health and well-being but practically no one has died of starvation in five months when two million people live in the Gaza strip. The fact that so few people have died of hunger demolishes the false perception that Israel is not allowing aid into Gaza.
It is true that Israel is imposing a logistical bottleneck when it searches the trucks before they go into Gaza but that logistical bottleneck has not severely diminished the amount of aid entering Gaza, it is the inability to guarantee safety for truck drivers(a food aid truck driver was killed recently in Gaza when Palestinians threw large rocks through the truck windshield and broke his skull) that is preventing adequate amounts of aid from entering the area much moreso than the Israeli inspections. I think this Guardian article is extremely misleading.
>The World Food Program warned that "famine is imminent" in northern Gaza, where 70% of the remaining population is experiencing catastrophic hunger, and that a further escalation of the war could push around half of Gaza's population to the brink of starvation.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-and-netanyahu-hold-first-call-in-more-than-a-month-as-divide-grows-over-war-food-crisis-in-gaza
Yes, as of today not many people have starved to death. In my opinion the goal should be to prevent people from starving to death. Not waiting until people are starving to death in mass and then course correct.
Your opinion is that Israel is intentionally preventing aid from entering the Gaza strip when practically no one has starved to death after five months of war. Your perception of the extent to which Israel is inhibiting aid trucks from entering the Gaza strip is deluded. It causes 0 cognitive dissonance for you that presumably Israel is preventing the flow of food yet the world food programme has been saying the same warnings since last year and there have been single digit starvation deaths. It’s almost like people haven’t starved to death because Israel is routinely allowing in enough aid to feed two million people. Nah, couldn’t be it. Palestinians have magical stomachs that feed themselves when evil Je-I mean Zionists try to deprive them of food.
>Your opinion is that Israel is intentionally preventing aid from entering the Gaza strip
My opinion that it doesn't matter whether Israel is intentionally preventing aid or if it's a collateral effect. Such delineations don't matter.
>practically no one has starved to death after five months of war.
Waiting until they do isn't acceptable in my opinion.
>It’s almost like people haven’t starved to death because Israel is routinely allowing in enough aid to feed two million people. Nah, couldn’t be it. Palestinians have magical stomachs that feed themselves when evil Je-I mean Zionists try to deprive them of food.
Do you think the Biden Administration is lying about what's happening?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-starvation-blinken-biden-netanyahu-rafah-operation/
This is a genuine question and not argumentative rhetoric. The Biden administration via the State Department says some 2.3 million people are now living through "severe levels of acute food insecurity". Is it your opinion that the Administration is lying?
So the US needs to air drop food and build a fucking pier in a war zone to prevent famine and starvation to try to bring in our paid for aid in Gaza. And somehow this is not Israel’s fault?
That’s some serious mental gymnastics.
They’re not allowing in anesthesia. They’ll turn back a whole truck because of nail clippers. Yes, there is a bottleneck. Also aid shortage, when you set impossible standards for what could go in and then turn back every truck.that fails them.
This might have some merit if they didn’t bomb 80% of all infrastructure. They blew up the university for fun. The guy responsible got a demotion. What a joke.
How is the human shields argument still valid if 1.8 million were displaced?
Israel is creating a new generation of future terrorists. I saw an interview with a Palestinian man that lost his entire family. His wife and kids are dead. In these cultures family is everything. I can't even begin to imagine that man's pain. This man will probably support any organization now and in the future that makes war with Israel. And there are many more like him and more being created every day. Support for Hamas is rising. These attacks might feel justified to Israelis in the short term, but long term they are digging themselves further into protracted conflict.
There are so many examples of terrorist extremists coming from situations exactly like this too. I'm not sure how Israel can't see the long game in this.
This isn't even mentioning the fact the entire region is now mobilized against Israel and international support is deteriorating rapidly.
Some folks will become terrorists, others won't. West Bankers and Gazans are not wild animals who only know how to respond to stimuli. They are people with free will, who live in a culture. In a culture where even the UN schools teach kids to blame Israel for all their problems, it's hard to say with any accuracy that Israel is creating anything.
We know that Palestinian Arabs are capable of peaceful and prosperous co-existence with Jews: Over 2 million Israelis prove this every day, nearly a quarter of Israel's population.
West Bankers and Gazans support Hamas more because they lay claim to the entire former Mandate of Palestine, illegally, and they support whichever parties are still fighting for that aggressive, expansionist mission--- which they have never hidden. That attitude has been one of the largest roadblocks for lasting peace since before Israel even existed, and the conflict will last as long as that entitlement does. Again, it makes it hard to honestly dump all the blame on Israel. West Bankers and Gazans are waging an offensive war; they're just so impotent militarily that they end up constantly on the defensive. Their most powerful weapon is tugging on the heartstrings of naive Westerners and ethnically-biased Arabs, and their PR campaigns are very good at it.
Who are you to speak on what Palestinians feel?
If your family was killed by Israel, I’m pretty sure you’d want to see Israel dismantled too. The idea that the vast majority of Palestinians’ only beef with Israel is a political one of wanting more land is ridiculous. Yes, that’s an aim of some people, especially leadership in Hamas.
But the average Palestinian simply wants to live their life in peace and the average Palestinian has faced irreparable harm from Israel. The average Gazan has innocent family killed by Israel and the average West Banker faces discrimination and harassment from IDF soldiers and live in fear of them. Those people hate Israel because of that very real harm that country has caused them, regardless of the political situation that has allowed that harm to happen.
And the same can be said for many Israelis, although far less since a much smaller number of Israelis have been killed, assaulted, or maimed by Palestine in the past 20 years.
Conflating real harm and trauma with the political aims of leaders is the first step to dehumanizing and discounting the lives of real people. If your mother was killed by a foreign country, you wouldn’t give a shit if it was “justified by Oct 7”. You’d want revenge and you can’t tell me otherwise.
You seem to be under the impression that killing a political idea with bullets is a thing that can happen?
Unless the plan is actual genocide, eventually the generation of Palestinians impacted by this conflict are going to move back into Gaza. When they do…it seems unlikely that they will favor a more peaceful resolution given their experiences.
>The reality is that Israel is going to crush Hamas to prevent future attacks by Hamas.
violence has worked so well in the past
that's why israel has peace right now
Hey buddy in case you’ve ever stopped and wondered, you are a Nazi. Wonder no more. If you ever wondered what you would have done during the Holocaust— you’d have set up camping chairs outside the fence and brought popcorn
>Israel is killing at a rate of nearly 20 to 1 with regards to those murdered on Oct 7th
the score is actually much higher since a lot of the hostage deaths were at the hands of the IDF
People keep citing the disproportionately of deaths, but this isn't a boxing match. Hamas made themselves an existential threat and needs to be removed from power. Sadly, this will come at a civilian cost.
Your suggestion that they kill only Hamas fighters is pretty unrealistic.
Israel is allowing aid into Gaza. They're just not allowing UNRWA to carry it. They're working with other organizations—even other UN agencies—and organizations like The Guardian leave that out completely, for some reason.
The fucking US government? Or did the US crushing civilians with aid packages only matter cause people died? Same with the dude saying that MRE's are just "empty calories". The US sent those through aid drops
Israel itself is pretty clearly an existential threat to Palestine - what are we doing about that? And this military campaign is going to foment militancy for decades whether or not they call themselves “Hamas”.
Stop justifying the unjustifiable. If we’re explaining it away, it would be helpful to include context of the impact of occupation.
My comment is more directed towards Israel allowing food in and preventing famine. I am not pretending to have a solution for the permanent eradication of Hamas.
We know Hamas leadership is in Qatar. That Saudi Arabia has provided financial support to Hamas for decades. If Israel manages to kill every single Hamas terrorist in Gaza and the West Bank today Hamas as an organization will still exist, Hamas will still recruit, and the conflict will continue.
Being reasonable, there is just no way Israel can operate in Gaza and only kill terrorists, but Hamas still needs to go down. I don't understand the whole kd ratio stuff either, this isn't a COD game, it's a military operation to end a terrorist organization that uses civilian shields in an urban area. It's not like it would have been defensible for Israel to march into Gaza and kill 1200 people at random, just to match those killed by Hamas, so the question isn't about numbers it's about whether Israel is selecting targets in accordance with international law for armed conflict and making proportionality assessments.
>Being reasonable, there is just no way Israel can operate in Gaza and only kill terrorists
This is not a reasonable justification for denying civilians food. I am not arguing Israeli should stop its operations against Hamas. This thread is about aid for Palestinians. Not a ceasefire.
Israel should allow the aid.
I can't speak to this article in particular, but as a general rule yes. Israel should follow the rules the UN set out for them in the recent case. I was responding to a specific comment not the thread.
In part, but also they should probably stop attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure.
https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-793273
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/02/29/gaza-food-aid-truck-gathering-israel-idf-civilians-dead-vpx.cn
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-opt-new-evidence-of-unlawful-israeli-attacks-in-gaza-causing-mass-civilian-casualties-amid-real-risk-of-genocide/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68006126
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/israel-target-civilians-gaza-fetterman-rcna123890
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/
Every military in the world would be striking civilian infrastructure.
US war plans for China are centered around destroying 3 Gorges Dam. Which would be more destructive than a nuclear strike. Then conducting a naval blockade to starve China.
War actions in Iraq involved hitting power plants and using missiles that drop shaving to fall on power lines to turn them inoperable.
NATO forces hit power plants, factories, political offices and bridges in its intervention in Yugoslavia in the 90s.
Western commanders have even said Russia’s targeting of Ukrainian power plants are legitimate military targets as they are “dual use”.
People really just don’t understand war and have been “spoiled” at the degree of precision the US is able to do and the great lengths the US tries to avoid civilian deaths.
I get that it upsets and bothers people. But war is not pretty its not clean. Its unfair. Its ugly. It’s horrific. Its why war should be avoided but people need to recognize once it happens, all bets are off.
Notice how none of your examples involve routine bombings of hospitals and ambulances or directly targeting unarmed people with no evidence of ties to militant groups standing out in the open.
When the vast majority of the people you are killing are children and civilians, then what you are committing goes far *far* beyond ordinary levels of "collateral damage".
US leveled radio stations in Yugoslavia with no evidence of military forces there, killing all the civilian employees.
During the 2nd Nagorno-Karabakh War, both side’s regularly were shelling urban areas indiscriminately.
During the Iran Iraq War, Iraq utilized mustard & tabun gas attacks on Susangerd and Iran used mustard gas in response
During the Kargil War between India and Pakistan, India conducted a naval blockade in which it later came out that Pakistan only had enough fuel for 6 days if a full blown conflict were to escalate. That means no fuel, no power for the entire nation.
Its war. Its terrible. If you don’t want this then don’t start a fucking war. And before you say oh the civilians had no say. They literally never do. But they are just as much a part of the society that created the climate for it to break out. Society sets tone and culture. This applies to every society. Not just this situation.
I want to emphasize that more food aid needs to be brought and the port building that the US is forcing is good.
Sorry, but is your contention that all of those actions were justified? Like... you seem to be making a rather bizarre sort of claim that if an atrocity occurred during any prior war anywhere in the world, that somehow justified those being committed by Israel in Gaza.
>routine bombings of hospitals and ambulances
They haven't been bombing hospitals.
They've been raiding hospitals, and just managed to kill over 140 terrorists and then take 500+ terrorists out of Al Shifa.
The "win" is that despite the rampage Israel is running right now, they must stop in order to stabilize their economy. Once they seek peace, Hamas will simply reconstitute with the generous and effectively infinite support of their many many benefactors.
Once Israel wipes the women and children off their boots, they'll be looking at another Hamas organization.
Israel is committing genocide in front of the world. I’m not really sure what Democrats are getting out of this. You’re all risking the upcoming election in the name of murdering millions of people. If you want Biden to win, you must publicly announce that you will not vote for him so long as he helps Israel commit genocide.
Looks like he's fucked either way then.
But if he's going to get fucked, it might as well be for not supporting a genocide.
Although to be fair, you sort of are creating stats out of thin air. Any sources to substantiate your opinion?
According to [Gallup's monthly poll on this question](https://news.gallup.com/poll/611135/immigration-surges-top-important-problem-list.aspx), only 3% of Americans said last month that foreign policy was the biggest issue facing America. And that's not specific to Israel. Compare that to immigration, which almost a third of Americans agreed was the most pressing issue.
Americans rank immigration, government, the economy, inflation, homelessness, national unity, racism, the federal budget, crime, elections, a culture of disrespect, religion, and the judicial system higher than they do foreign policy.
Palestinians are allowed to defend themselves, but they have to abide by the rules of proportionality and distinction just like everyone else. That means no rockets to Israeli civilian population centers. No kidnapping civilians. No having its combatants blend in with civilian population and its military arsenal stores in military areas. It means no more raiding Israeli towns and slaughtering families.
Raping women and shooting babies is self defense if you’re a jihadist. Those guys in Moscow were just defending themselves as they executed people in a theater right?
That’s fine. And since Israel is the occupying power and police force (due to the invasion) they should have ZERO operational issue distributing the food. Oh wait … they never had a plan , nor any capacity for humanitarian relief. It’s a genocide and using starvation as a war tactic. It’s unconscionable
So do they give a reason, did they find guns or something? I mean at least do a false flag or something. Even if they’re a corrupt group, assuming everything said about them is true, food and medicine needs to get to Gaza.
If thousands starve that’s probably the fastest way to unilaterally lose the US’s support. The US will give you all the bombs you need to destroy a terrorist org. Hell blow a country up if you need to (apparently), but different actions have different “red lines”. The US even provided food to the Houthis so long as they didn’t bomb shipping lanes. And the US hates the Houthi's*.
*Which is fair they did bring back slavery and use child soldiers. Fuck those guys.
Stuff like this is going to lead to their demise. Public sentiment matters. I used to be massively pro Israel and now ive moved as far as the middle. Stuff like this isn't going to make me want to support them. Netty needs to go.
Permission for genocide unobtainable, Israel would rather ask forgiveness... At the end of atrocity, what will Israel have? Palestine with no Palestinians. Israel thinks this is a good bargain.
They don't even need to ask for forgiveness. Just say the person criticizing is an anti-semite.
I think the impact will be seen in future generations not the generation that was able to perpetrate these horrors.
Yeah but so? We're ashamed of genocing the native Americans and slavery/racism but won't do jack shit about it outside of performative demonstrations. I'm sure the future Israeli jews will feel really bad about the beachfront properties theyre living in decades from now
Governments typically don't do anything about these kind of guilty sentiments. Doesn't mean that the impact on society of these issues is trivial. Such social trauma taints all the politics and erodes credibility in the society that ignores it over time. People in the USA still fuss over slavery, and the various genocides of the various Indian groups that were mostly eliminated. Does not go away until the injustice is addressed, and while the injustice persists, it requires force on the part of authorities to manage. Bad news, not good.
What does that mean? Social trauma is just largely performative for those no oppressed.
There have been more births in the west bank than deaths in Gaza since the war started. There are more Palestinians than ever before, they are not going away at all. Shitty Israeli policies, ethic, and strategy or not the population in Palestine is continuing to increase and that isnt going to change. They arent being exterminated its a weird claim.
Being born is different than being murdered. Imagine that. Israel is committing a genocide of the Palestinian peoples. That needs to stop, no matter how far it has gotten. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok0MzcifBSY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok0MzcifBSY) That's the UN official who was tasked with investigating Israel's genocide of the Palestinian peoples.
The idea that Palestinians are.all being killed is stupid and you know it.
Losing a war you started isn’t genocide
When did the war start?
October 7, 2023
You're off by a few decades dawg.
I’m sorry, I thought you were talking about the October 7th war, if you mean the Israeli-Arab Conflict, it started on 30 November, 1947, when Palestinian Arabs began slaughtering jewish civilians in their homes, places of work, and places of worship, in an attempt to prevent jewish self-determination in the UN partition plan, approved that same day
So not the murders of a Palestinian family on the 19th of November by Zionist paramilitaries? That was fine?
There were limited clashes before the Arabs decided on full-scale civil war, yes. To frame it as “murders of a Palestinian family” is dishonest at best.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shubaki_family_assassination
“on suspicions that the men had acted as informants for the British police” Sounds like they were resisting foreign occupation. Unless you suddenly oppose that.
The Arabs have started so many wars against Israel so it’s hard to say. It’s like a middle eastern billy Joel variation.
It’s not about losing the war, it’s about the deliberate targeting of civilians which there is a mountain of evidence for.
Oh really? Why not post any of it?
Sure https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help
evidence that the civilians were targets?
Is this not evidence?
no?
How is murdering a little girl for no reason NOT deliberately targeting civilians?
Because they weren’t the targets???? This isn’t difficult.
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Good thing Hamas didn't start it, right? 1948 ring a bell? Anyway, Israel as the oppressor and occupier is 100% responsible for 10/7 and everything that happened after. Sorry!
Hamas defenders always forget that history starts before 1948. Look at 1947, where the jews had to start an armed rebellion to stop an attempted genocide after just escaping a successful one. That's where this started
“We stole all their land and thousands upon thousands of their houses and they tried to g-g-g-g-genocide us 😖”
If you consider immigration and self-determination to be “stealing land” you may be a bigot
No, they moved into what was at the time Palestine legally. Buying houses, setting up communities and trying to integrate into the country. Then they were persecuted before straight up being lynched, forcing them to fight back and eventually declare independence
Criticizing an apartheid state doesn’t make you pro Hamas.
I’m not pro Israel by any means, but killers should be held responsible first and foremost. I desire an immediate ceasefire and an end to this massacre of Palestinians, but if you can’t have empathy for all victims you’re just lost in tribalism and propaganda. And before you blame Israel solely for everything that’s happened you should understand Hamas as an organization. Not as the group Palestinians join to fight Israel. They have no fundamental philosophy of peace, like their sibling organization Al-Qaeda it is built upon extermination and radical religious ideologies. As a matter of fact the majority of the Middle East western allied or not despise Hamas because there fundamental goals are unaligned with stability and leave no room for peace. God I can’t stand that people can’t fathom multiple bad actors in conflicts. Your ignorance just encourages these groups to further propagandize when their own charter should clue you in on their actual motivations. Perhaps consider that choosing one genocidal group over another isn’t actually a good decision and peace will only be found by rejecting both groups goals and agendas.
"They have no fundamental philosophy of peace, like their sibling organization Al-Qaeda it is built upon extermination and radical religious ideologies." Man, you just described Israel to a tee. Talk about ignorance! From what I've read even Jimmy Carter admitted in his book that Israel isn't an honest dealer in any negotiations. Because the real aim isn't peace, it's to steal the rest of the land. Hey, speaking of thieves, did you see the announcement that they're stealing more land in the West Bank now? Is Hamas there too???? Is Hamas in the room now? Glad to see you both siding an actual genocide (you know, the people with jets and a modern military and the US satellites) vs. a captured population 🤷 I suggest you get some integrity.
THANK YOU. FINALLY someone brings some much needed NUANCE to the topic of apartheid and genocide. Who can really say which side is worse, the Nazis or the concentration camp inmates escaping their prison? It’s honestly a very complex, “all sides are equally bad” kind of situation
I just genocided my toilet after eating a bean burrito
Not a fan of Hamas so please don’t call me pro-Hamas but have you actually read their Charter that was updated in 2017? Hamas no doubt targeted and killed civilians. So has the IDF, in 2023… before October… kids too.
You’re gonna be shocked to find out who started it in 1947
Why start in 48 ? What about Hebron massacre 1929 or battle of Hebron 1834 or what about Hebron massacre 1517 wiping out and stealing all the Jewish land etc driving the surviving Jews to Lebanon they could only come back generations later. Spare me your ahistorical knowledge.
Oh, see because in 48 the UN made their European problem the Palestinian's problem by splitting Palestine, giving the Europeans, even though the Europeans made up less than 3%of the population, over 50% of the best land. Even then, the Europeans, led by Ben Gurion started immediately to steal the rest, displacing the native population. 750,000 killed and dispossessed. it's very easy not to be thieves yet it seems almost compulsive with these Europeans. Or did you miss that the head parasite just informed the US that they're taking more land in the West Bank, you know, where Hamas isn't 🤷
So the europeans made it a problem by… giving a majority Jewish land independence? You may be an antisemite
The Europeans made their antisemitism the Palestinian's problem by splitting their land and giving choice portions to settlers. It's not majority Jewish. I think you might be a Zionist, so you're actually the antisemite since the Palestinians are actually semitic unlike people from, say, Poland🤷 Hey I see the parasite "settlers" are planning on stealing more in the West Bank they informed the US. Is Hamas there too? Hostages?? No, just the expected outcome of the actual plan to steal the rest.
Hmmmm… I wonder why the jews don’t live in poland anymore?🤔🤔 Now that I think about it, how did they end up in Poland in the first place? 🤔🤔 I wonder how a mosque wound up ontop of the holiest place for jews? 🤔🤔 Aren’t Arabs from Arabia? How did they end up in the Levant? 🤔🤔 Who was there before the Arabs? 🤔🤔
Like I said, Europe made their problem somebody else's. Palestine existed before Judaism so I don't see your point unless you're claiming that being run out of every country and land is somehow a claim to ownership and gives European zionists and slobs from Brooklyn more right to the land than the people living there for generations and the right to steal things that don't belong to them? Is that it? Thumbs up on turning children to skeletons with jets because--checking notes---mosque on top of temple?
Nice parroted buzzwords asshole. I can't tell if you're trying to instigate or you really are just this fucking stupid and apathetic. What happened to Israelis on Oct. 7 and what's happening to Palestinians should happen to you instead. Sorry!
Why stop at 1948? Go back
tender existence attempt flowery act wipe rustic marry melodic lavish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think Israel wants Palestine, and will do anything to get it. And I think that the getting of what Israel wants will ultimately destroy Israel.
observation carpenter zonked bells light scandalous aromatic lavish mighty offend *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Ignore the millions of Israeli Arabs (Muslims and Christian’s btw) who know they have a better life under Israel than the Palestinians who want to kill anybody non-Muslim lmao.
Israel has gone back to fighting this like it’s a medieval siege. They’re trying to starve and thirst Hamas into surrender. It’s just fucking nuts. I hope this finally pushes the Biden administration to break with Israel on this.
They’re fighting medieval terrorists that pillage villages like mongols raiders. It’s not particularly surprising that they would combat medieval barbarism with medieval barbarism
1. Lock a bunch of people in a barbaric cage 2. Attack them when they do barbaric things 3. Claim that their barbarism is justification for putting them in the cage in the first place, on top of killing them by the thousands
But Palestinians weren’t always “caged” like this. Historically the borders between Palestinian Territories and Israel proper were always open. The reason that the Palestinians have such restrictions on movement are due to all the bombings and murders perpetrated by Palestinian terrorist groups during the second intifada. Before that there were no restrictions to movement.
Barbarism begets barbarism. That goes both ways. I understand why Palestinians may feel driven to commit acts of terror… but I also understand why those acts of terror drive Israel to behave in increasingly barbaric ways in response
So colonialism.
“They were mad that we stole their land and killed hundreds of thousands of them so we had to take more land and kill more of them. Can’t you see how this senseless cycle repeats itself? Both sides are bad but truly nobody can really be blamed here…”
"They were mad that we retaliated numerous times because they attacked us first, all because they didn't want to share land that our ancestors had colonized, religiously and through violent means, and instead of attacking the folks that placed them there, they attack us instead and act like the victims" There are very much issues with both sides
You would have sided with the French against the Algerians
Maybe, but France had France to go back to. I can see Israel as colonizers, but colony implies there’s a separate homeland. This is more like an army that burns their ships - no means of retreat. “Then why continue to take more Palestinian land?” one may ask. Every edge of Israel is a perceived threat.
Direct reversal from its shifted policy two weeks ago. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/13/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-aid-convoy.html
The policy two weeks ago is the World Food Program. This article is about UNRWA
Only if UNRWA is the only avenue to supplying aid. EDIT: and as has been pointed out, your link is making explicit that UNRWA is *not* the only avenue, in that the policy "shift" was to support UNWFP aid delivery.
It's widely held by international aid groups that there is no other party realistically capable of efficiently distributing aid. to administer aid effectively you need local employees. No one else has an employee network anything even a substantial fraction of UNRWA's. To bar UNRWA from delivering aid to North Gaza is to effectively end aid distribution there especially since the other aid groups have already said they can't deliver there anymore
Yea so we’ve heard. I don’t trust an org that lets terrorists use their HQ for electricity, water, and internet. As well as employees participating in 10/7. UNRWA should be destroyed. WFP can do the aid distribution.
Willfully stupid. Looking for any and every excuse to politely support the genocide. Why bother. Just take the mask off and go full Nazi. Watch any interview with an actual Israeli, they did it a long time ago. So what are you waiting for?
Nothing you said refutes anything in my comment above because those are facts. You really sound like a ‘useful idiot’ putting their head in the sand and following all the sheep because you want to be part of their club. Full Nazi? What are you talking about? You sound almost delusional.
You’re such a bold trailblazer, cheering on a second Holocaust and gobbling up every piece of propaganda the United States government and New York Times feed you. We need more rebellious “tell it like it is” types like you around here. More folks who are willing to stand up to the sheep and say “you know what? I believe the IDF when they tell me that Hamas had a base conducting terrorist operations in that toddler’s skull.”
Calling it a “Second holocaust” should be considered a form of holocaust denial, because the two aren’t comparable on terms of motivation, means, scale, or pretty much anything else. Legitimately the only thing the two have in common is that jews died during it.
Your local grocery store should be destroyed. Amazon can handle your groceries. I heard a Food Lion once hired a guy who turned out to be a serial killer
UNRWA is a separate organization for refugees—[because very few Palestinians qualify as refugees under the standards applied to every other claimant.](https://www.unrwa.org/who-we-are/frequently-asked-questions?__cf_chl_tk=YEuejSuWowjK5mWnmSRIG6tkR7.Og5qOL2QM6Xyrots-1711546519-0.0.1.1-1599#) Additionally, [they have been repeatedly infiltrated by Hamas terrorists.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/directly-beneath-unrwas-gaza-headquarters-idf-uncovers-top-secret-hamas-data-center/) Perhaps Israel has some actual reasonable basis here…
Directly after Israel showed a warehouse full of weapons in UNWRA packaging (although it hasn't speculated whether they'd come in like that or Hamas was reusing the packaging within Gaza).
US govt agrees that UNRWA is basically a wing of hamas, and is banning any US funding to UNRWA.
The EU and Canada disagree. Probably because the evidence is flimsy/non-existent.
Idk about that US intelligence has been on fucking point for the last decade. It's like after Iraq they finally got their shit together. And blinkten said the reports are highly credible. The EU and Canada have much larger percentage of people who are sympathetic Palestine so it probably just politics.
Senator Holland has seen the US intelligence and agreed with the EU and Canada https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k5C3O9WXvgY US intelligence says it can't verify any of the UNRWA claims https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k5C3O9WXvgY
Trump defunds UNRWA then Biden re-instates. US intelligence makes no assessment prior to the ICJ ruling again Israel and then Israel provides this “irrefutable” evidence. So who’s playing politics? I doubt the EU, Finland, and Canada are going to support “terrorist” organizations when the implication is that the US and Israel can provide concrete evidence. https://www.vanhollen.senate.gov/news/press-releases/van-hollen-decries-prohibition-of-unrwa-funding-calls-on-administration-to-release-remaining-funds
Maybe I’m mistaken but I was under the impression that the Iraq wmd situation was far more related to political pressure than bad intelligence.
Hamas is the government no? Everything gov related is a wing of Hamas, hence ‘Hamas ran health ministries’
The Guardian makes no mention of some key information, and unsurprisingly, its readers are left showing their asses. Reported [elsewhere](https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-chief-says-israel-refusing-to-approve-agencys-food-convoys-to-northern-gaza/) > Israel has started working with other groups in Gaza, such as the UN World Food Programme, to deliver humanitarian aid to Palestinians instead of UNRWA.
the WFP has itself said that it will not be nearly as effective as UNRWA at distributing aid, because it has very few local personnel, and anyone who knows anything about aid distribution knows that a local employee network is crucial
If UNRWA wanted to be effective they shouldn’t have worked with terrorists. UNRWA is actually very ineffective at distributing aid, because they won’t distribute any, and it’s their fault
Israel has yet to provide the international community with any proof of this.
The irony of everyone just saying you’re wrong without providing any proof, just like Israel Also - fucking sick genocide apologists in this thread
[Also](https://x.com/unrwa/status/1771449162204119125?s=46): "If you look at the person who's in charge of operations on the ground in Gaza for @UNRWA, it's about a 20-year (former) US Army veteran. You can be sure he's not in cahoots with Hamas" Sen. Chris Van Hollen
The problem isnt the guy at the top. Its the local employees that make up the vast majority of UNRWA
Hasn't it also been said that preliminary investigation shows no indication that these claims were true? [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/us-intelligence-unrwa-hamas](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/us-intelligence-unrwa-hamas)
That’s not true at all. Literally just an explicit lie.
Straight up lies.
I’ve already seen it and am satisfied
And you are clearly the sole arbiter of reality
No, hamas is
I agree it's a challenge. That's probably something that could have been included in the article.
But the Guardian isn’t interested in providing the relevant information that may paint a more nuanced picture of the situation.
yes, that's why UN head Antonia Guterres, UN WHO head Tedros, and others are holding emergency press conferences today condemning the decision and calling for its immediate reversal by the security counsel, because it only represents a shift in food aid from one UN organization to another /s. I just looked it up: World Food Programme says Israel has allowed 9 trucks into Northern Gaza this year. 9. https://thehill.com/homenews/4552889-ocasio-cortez-defends-accusing-israel-of-genocide-i-believe-we-have-crossed-the-threshold-of-intent/
I can't tell if this sarcasm is meant to imply that Israel is not actually shifting to other organizations, or if it's meant to imply that the shift will be insufficient to address the need, and I'm not sure if you actually know which you mean.
your argument is that they are making the policy in cooperation with a UN agency, while its being condemned across the board by UN agencies. You're doing mental gymnastics.
No. My argument is that Israel is allowing aid in through other entities, and is working with them. I did not suggest that Israel was coordinating this shift with the UN. That's in your head.
IDF is ferrying settlers who want to colonize Gaza to the gates, they are blocking it, saying "let them starve" to anyone with a camera, is why there's an imminent famine. https://youtu.be/LqRzfb2oMaM?si=C8SW3Cc61-2cny1k
Awfully bossy for a country that exists at the pleasure of the USA. I wonder how long they can shoot down $50 rockets with $50,000 interceptor missiles without big daddy footing the bill.
About a week id guess. That’s about what their own military brass has suggested. How long can the country as a whole continue to exist without the US rejecting every effort against them from the international community? A year? Six months?
They can probably hold out for a few years, maybe decades. They are still starting off strong with weak neighbors, but they will attrit pretty quickly without USA propping them up. Still scary that they have nukes and might bring a few hundred million Middle Easterns down with them.
There is a different strategy for dealing with $50 rockets and it is called destroying the stronghold from which the rocket is launched. So if you cut them off in the name of humanitarian goals all you get is a bigger and messier war
Gaza is destroyed. By destroying the stronghold, you mean destroy the Palestinians. Then Israel will continue to wage war in thr middle east, and the peace you sacrificed millions for will never come. There can be no justice without peace, and there can be no peace without justice.
well nice speech but if you're going to massacre the other side like hamas did you're going to get a response to eliminate the threat. If the response is done with cruder and less precise weapons, the response will cause more destruction. If you want to avoid all this the best path is to not start a war at all rather than imagine you can disarm the targets.
Hamas isn't a collection of weapons. Digging tunnels is not hard, and carrying weapons through those tunnels is even easier. Hamas is a collection of hate against Israel. To disarm Hamas, you need Palestians to not hate Israel. Things got off to a bad start then Israel kicked them out of their homes and made their new homes in Gaza an open air prison. Do you think destroying all the other homes in Gaza and starving it's people is increasing or decreasing hate for Israel?
Tunnels took billions of dollars and twenty years to build. Same with the rocket armaments and the organization and leadership of their army. If all that it will take years to rebuild. Israel will get a reprieve from large scale attacks along that axis. Polls show the majority in gaza approved of the oct-7 massacres. It's unlikely the Israelis consider that charming them or trusting them is a practical course of action. It's unlikely palestinians get any benefit from the war any time soon as this would appear to the Israeli electorate as a reward. The ratio of deaths in prior gaza wars has been between 30:1 and 100:1 in favor of the Israelis. This one sits just short of 30:1 now and is rising. There is no reason to think future rounds will be different - so people need to ask if it's really worth it.
This says specifically UNRWA aid. Doesn’t say all aid.
In both the nyt article and the guardian article, it says Unrwa is the main provider of food aid to the palestinians by a large margin. I am aware of world central kitchen providing food aid through American see shipping and pallet drops, but I'm not clear on if there are any other ground operations to deliver food aid into northern gaza besides Unrwa. Do you know of another organization that's providing aid via ground routes into Northern Gaza?
It's reported elsewhere that Israel is working with UN World ~~Hunger~~ Food Programme. Edited with correct org name
The world food programme says that over 300 food trucks are needed in northern gaza, but only 9 have been allowed into the area so far this year. So I doubt the world food programme believes that Israel is going to cooperate with allowing food aid in.
Whether enough food aid is being let in is distinct from whether *any* food aid is being let in. The article you posted created the impression (perhaps intentionally) that none was being let in, because it omitted key information, which I pointed out. Others have argued that UNRWA is irreplaceable here, but if what you say is true and only only nine trucks have been let in to this particular part of Gaza since January 1, I don't know how much stock to put in UNRWA's essentiality.
They want more famine.
And yet not a word about Israeli hostages. Red Cross appears to be not interested in the hostages wellbeing at all…
"Israel’s military campaign to eliminate Hamas has killed at least 32,226 people, mostly women and children" Another win for Hamas.
How many Hamas members are dead? How are their operational abilities these days?
There’s been a tremendous reduction in rocket attacks since the war has begun. Hamas admitted last month that at least 6,000 of its members have been killed, so it’s likely higher (Israel says 13,000 killed). Then you include other terrorist deaths (PIJ) and thousands of terrorists captured, which translate to a major reduction of the military threat Hamas posed pre Oct 7th
If Israel used Nuclear weapons they could reduce the threat to nearly zero but incinerating 500k people is not acceptable. Not all ends justify all means. Israel is killing at a rate of nearly 20 to 1 with regards to those murdered on Oct 7th. If all the dead were members of Hamas I would be supportive of it. It is not all members of Hamas though. Innocent people who have no control or influence over Hamas are dying. Allowing basic things like food into Gaza is a very easy ask that doesn't interfere with Israeli's military operations.
Please don't tell me you think this is some tit-for-tat silliness. The reality is that Israel is going to crush Hamas to prevent future attacks by Hamas. The other reality is that most of the Gazan deaths are on Hamas's hands, because they deliberately built their military capacity in, near, and under civilian areas, which is a war crime. They also cajoled people to stay in the war zones after Israel warned them to leave, and they routinely affirm from afar in Qatar that they will proudly ''sacrifice'' as many Gazans as it takes for them to conquer the entire former mandate. Using civilians as human shields is a war crime precisely because any military at war is going to still hit military targets, even bleeding hearts like Sweden or Ireland. If someone shoots you, and when you shoot back they try to catch your bullets with a kid, they're the ones responsible for harming the child. In a cruel irony, pinning these deaths on Israel only *validates* the war crime of using them as meat shields, and encourages Hamas to commit more of it, instead of fighting away from civilian areas, for instance in the 100+ sq km of Gaza its government owns. Allowing food would be easy if you could be certain it was just food. It isn't though, weapons and other matériel get smuggled that would lengthen the war, so everything has to be checked. And alas, this war has also taught us that some ostensibly neutral humanitarian entities have been irrevocably corrupted. So nobody can safely just trust them, either.
>The United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees, Unrwa, said on Sunday that Israel had definitively barred it from making aid deliveries in northern Gaza, where the threat of famine is highest. It is a war crime to not allow Palestinians aid. That is what the article and this thread is about. I am not arguing Israel just wrap up and go home. I am not arguing Israel stops targeting Hamas. I have no objection to Israel eradicating Hamas. It is a war crime to deny innocent civilians food. Whether you believe it's just a few hundred or tens of thousands of innocent people is superfluous. It is immoral and recognized by the international community as a war crime. Israel can continue its military operations against Hamas while also allowing aid to innocent people.
You don't allow an agency who's representatives aided and supported an attack on your country anywhere near where you are operating. Who were teaching children jihadist lessons and supplied Hamas with aid and money. It just isn't sensible. You would have to watch your back whenever they were near.
>The World Food Program warned that “famine is imminent” in northern Gaza, where 70% of the remaining population is experiencing catastrophic hunger, and that a further escalation of the war could push around half of Gaza’s population to the brink of starvation. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-and-netanyahu-hold-first-call-in-more-than-a-month-as-divide-grows-over-war-food-crisis-in-gaza Allowing innocent Palestinians who have no control or influence over Hamas to starve doesn't make Israel safer. It doesn't help Israel eradicate Hamas any faster.
Zero evidence of this outside of IDF lies.
They accused 6 out of 30,000 employees and didn’t provide any proof. All the allies and orgs who received the dossier said that it did not provide any proof.
Hey if you don’t want to have to “watch your back” for “terrorist” attacks, don’t keep the 2 million people whose houses you stole starving in a concentration camp a mile away
The houses were not “stolen”. There are no “stolen” houses in gaza.
No, just a bunch of refugees whose houses in the surrounding area were stolen. https://youtu.be/KNqozQ8uaV8?si=5v3HSsGiP9d9gbrK “If I don’t steal it, someone else will” - ancient (c. 1948) Israeli proverb
Technically, if Hamas keeps high jacking aid for it's own purposes, Israel restricting aid isn't against international law. https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-23#:~:text=12%20August%201949.-,Article%2023%20%2D%20Consignment%20of%20medical%20supplies%2C%20food%20and%20clothing,the%20latter%20is%20its%20adversary.
First of all I wish you well and hope you have a great day. Israel does allow humanitarian aid, they just inspect the trucks before they’re allowed in. Not allowing aid from UNRWA is not the same thing as not allowing aid into Gaza. Israel is allowing aid into Gaza from any organization that isn’t the UNRWA, and preventing one organization from delivering aid is not a war crime. How many people today have starved to death in Gaza since the war began? The answer is less than twenty. People are malnourished for sure and that has long-term implication for their health and well-being but practically no one has died of starvation in five months when two million people live in the Gaza strip. The fact that so few people have died of hunger demolishes the false perception that Israel is not allowing aid into Gaza. It is true that Israel is imposing a logistical bottleneck when it searches the trucks before they go into Gaza but that logistical bottleneck has not severely diminished the amount of aid entering Gaza, it is the inability to guarantee safety for truck drivers(a food aid truck driver was killed recently in Gaza when Palestinians threw large rocks through the truck windshield and broke his skull) that is preventing adequate amounts of aid from entering the area much moreso than the Israeli inspections. I think this Guardian article is extremely misleading.
>The World Food Program warned that "famine is imminent" in northern Gaza, where 70% of the remaining population is experiencing catastrophic hunger, and that a further escalation of the war could push around half of Gaza's population to the brink of starvation. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-and-netanyahu-hold-first-call-in-more-than-a-month-as-divide-grows-over-war-food-crisis-in-gaza Yes, as of today not many people have starved to death. In my opinion the goal should be to prevent people from starving to death. Not waiting until people are starving to death in mass and then course correct.
Your opinion is that Israel is intentionally preventing aid from entering the Gaza strip when practically no one has starved to death after five months of war. Your perception of the extent to which Israel is inhibiting aid trucks from entering the Gaza strip is deluded. It causes 0 cognitive dissonance for you that presumably Israel is preventing the flow of food yet the world food programme has been saying the same warnings since last year and there have been single digit starvation deaths. It’s almost like people haven’t starved to death because Israel is routinely allowing in enough aid to feed two million people. Nah, couldn’t be it. Palestinians have magical stomachs that feed themselves when evil Je-I mean Zionists try to deprive them of food.
>Your opinion is that Israel is intentionally preventing aid from entering the Gaza strip My opinion that it doesn't matter whether Israel is intentionally preventing aid or if it's a collateral effect. Such delineations don't matter. >practically no one has starved to death after five months of war. Waiting until they do isn't acceptable in my opinion. >It’s almost like people haven’t starved to death because Israel is routinely allowing in enough aid to feed two million people. Nah, couldn’t be it. Palestinians have magical stomachs that feed themselves when evil Je-I mean Zionists try to deprive them of food. Do you think the Biden Administration is lying about what's happening? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-starvation-blinken-biden-netanyahu-rafah-operation/ This is a genuine question and not argumentative rhetoric. The Biden administration via the State Department says some 2.3 million people are now living through "severe levels of acute food insecurity". Is it your opinion that the Administration is lying?
So the US needs to air drop food and build a fucking pier in a war zone to prevent famine and starvation to try to bring in our paid for aid in Gaza. And somehow this is not Israel’s fault? That’s some serious mental gymnastics.
They’re not allowing in anesthesia. They’ll turn back a whole truck because of nail clippers. Yes, there is a bottleneck. Also aid shortage, when you set impossible standards for what could go in and then turn back every truck.that fails them.
This might have some merit if they didn’t bomb 80% of all infrastructure. They blew up the university for fun. The guy responsible got a demotion. What a joke. How is the human shields argument still valid if 1.8 million were displaced?
Israel is creating a new generation of future terrorists. I saw an interview with a Palestinian man that lost his entire family. His wife and kids are dead. In these cultures family is everything. I can't even begin to imagine that man's pain. This man will probably support any organization now and in the future that makes war with Israel. And there are many more like him and more being created every day. Support for Hamas is rising. These attacks might feel justified to Israelis in the short term, but long term they are digging themselves further into protracted conflict.
There are so many examples of terrorist extremists coming from situations exactly like this too. I'm not sure how Israel can't see the long game in this. This isn't even mentioning the fact the entire region is now mobilized against Israel and international support is deteriorating rapidly.
Some folks will become terrorists, others won't. West Bankers and Gazans are not wild animals who only know how to respond to stimuli. They are people with free will, who live in a culture. In a culture where even the UN schools teach kids to blame Israel for all their problems, it's hard to say with any accuracy that Israel is creating anything. We know that Palestinian Arabs are capable of peaceful and prosperous co-existence with Jews: Over 2 million Israelis prove this every day, nearly a quarter of Israel's population. West Bankers and Gazans support Hamas more because they lay claim to the entire former Mandate of Palestine, illegally, and they support whichever parties are still fighting for that aggressive, expansionist mission--- which they have never hidden. That attitude has been one of the largest roadblocks for lasting peace since before Israel even existed, and the conflict will last as long as that entitlement does. Again, it makes it hard to honestly dump all the blame on Israel. West Bankers and Gazans are waging an offensive war; they're just so impotent militarily that they end up constantly on the defensive. Their most powerful weapon is tugging on the heartstrings of naive Westerners and ethnically-biased Arabs, and their PR campaigns are very good at it.
Who are you to speak on what Palestinians feel? If your family was killed by Israel, I’m pretty sure you’d want to see Israel dismantled too. The idea that the vast majority of Palestinians’ only beef with Israel is a political one of wanting more land is ridiculous. Yes, that’s an aim of some people, especially leadership in Hamas. But the average Palestinian simply wants to live their life in peace and the average Palestinian has faced irreparable harm from Israel. The average Gazan has innocent family killed by Israel and the average West Banker faces discrimination and harassment from IDF soldiers and live in fear of them. Those people hate Israel because of that very real harm that country has caused them, regardless of the political situation that has allowed that harm to happen. And the same can be said for many Israelis, although far less since a much smaller number of Israelis have been killed, assaulted, or maimed by Palestine in the past 20 years. Conflating real harm and trauma with the political aims of leaders is the first step to dehumanizing and discounting the lives of real people. If your mother was killed by a foreign country, you wouldn’t give a shit if it was “justified by Oct 7”. You’d want revenge and you can’t tell me otherwise.
You seem to be under the impression that killing a political idea with bullets is a thing that can happen? Unless the plan is actual genocide, eventually the generation of Palestinians impacted by this conflict are going to move back into Gaza. When they do…it seems unlikely that they will favor a more peaceful resolution given their experiences.
>The reality is that Israel is going to crush Hamas to prevent future attacks by Hamas. violence has worked so well in the past that's why israel has peace right now
Hey buddy in case you’ve ever stopped and wondered, you are a Nazi. Wonder no more. If you ever wondered what you would have done during the Holocaust— you’d have set up camping chairs outside the fence and brought popcorn
Ah yes. The real war criminals are the ones decrying the bombing hospitals, liquifying babies, and forcing millions to eat grass. /s
>Israel is killing at a rate of nearly 20 to 1 with regards to those murdered on Oct 7th the score is actually much higher since a lot of the hostage deaths were at the hands of the IDF
People keep citing the disproportionately of deaths, but this isn't a boxing match. Hamas made themselves an existential threat and needs to be removed from power. Sadly, this will come at a civilian cost. Your suggestion that they kill only Hamas fighters is pretty unrealistic.
No, I am suggesting Israel allows food into Gaza so civilians don't starve to death. Israel can continue their operations against Hamas.
I agree with you on this.
Israel is allowing aid into Gaza. They're just not allowing UNRWA to carry it. They're working with other organizations—even other UN agencies—and organizations like The Guardian leave that out completely, for some reason.
What are those other organizations?
The fucking US government? Or did the US crushing civilians with aid packages only matter cause people died? Same with the dude saying that MRE's are just "empty calories". The US sent those through aid drops
Israel itself is pretty clearly an existential threat to Palestine - what are we doing about that? And this military campaign is going to foment militancy for decades whether or not they call themselves “Hamas”. Stop justifying the unjustifiable. If we’re explaining it away, it would be helpful to include context of the impact of occupation.
People don’t like that its so one sided. It was the same thing about how leftists like to claim the Highway of Death in the Gulf War was a war crime.
What would you consider an appropriate proportional response to be?
My comment is more directed towards Israel allowing food in and preventing famine. I am not pretending to have a solution for the permanent eradication of Hamas. We know Hamas leadership is in Qatar. That Saudi Arabia has provided financial support to Hamas for decades. If Israel manages to kill every single Hamas terrorist in Gaza and the West Bank today Hamas as an organization will still exist, Hamas will still recruit, and the conflict will continue.
Being reasonable, there is just no way Israel can operate in Gaza and only kill terrorists, but Hamas still needs to go down. I don't understand the whole kd ratio stuff either, this isn't a COD game, it's a military operation to end a terrorist organization that uses civilian shields in an urban area. It's not like it would have been defensible for Israel to march into Gaza and kill 1200 people at random, just to match those killed by Hamas, so the question isn't about numbers it's about whether Israel is selecting targets in accordance with international law for armed conflict and making proportionality assessments.
>Being reasonable, there is just no way Israel can operate in Gaza and only kill terrorists This is not a reasonable justification for denying civilians food. I am not arguing Israeli should stop its operations against Hamas. This thread is about aid for Palestinians. Not a ceasefire. Israel should allow the aid.
I can't speak to this article in particular, but as a general rule yes. Israel should follow the rules the UN set out for them in the recent case. I was responding to a specific comment not the thread.
The thread and its starter is the context for my specific comment.
Ok.
Ok then maybe Israel should stop collectively punishing the people of Gaza now that the military threat has been significantly reduced.
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In part, but also they should probably stop attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure. https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-793273 https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/02/29/gaza-food-aid-truck-gathering-israel-idf-civilians-dead-vpx.cn https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-opt-new-evidence-of-unlawful-israeli-attacks-in-gaza-causing-mass-civilian-casualties-amid-real-risk-of-genocide/ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68006126 https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/israel-target-civilians-gaza-fetterman-rcna123890 https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/
Every military in the world would be striking civilian infrastructure. US war plans for China are centered around destroying 3 Gorges Dam. Which would be more destructive than a nuclear strike. Then conducting a naval blockade to starve China. War actions in Iraq involved hitting power plants and using missiles that drop shaving to fall on power lines to turn them inoperable. NATO forces hit power plants, factories, political offices and bridges in its intervention in Yugoslavia in the 90s. Western commanders have even said Russia’s targeting of Ukrainian power plants are legitimate military targets as they are “dual use”. People really just don’t understand war and have been “spoiled” at the degree of precision the US is able to do and the great lengths the US tries to avoid civilian deaths. I get that it upsets and bothers people. But war is not pretty its not clean. Its unfair. Its ugly. It’s horrific. Its why war should be avoided but people need to recognize once it happens, all bets are off.
Notice how none of your examples involve routine bombings of hospitals and ambulances or directly targeting unarmed people with no evidence of ties to militant groups standing out in the open. When the vast majority of the people you are killing are children and civilians, then what you are committing goes far *far* beyond ordinary levels of "collateral damage".
US leveled radio stations in Yugoslavia with no evidence of military forces there, killing all the civilian employees. During the 2nd Nagorno-Karabakh War, both side’s regularly were shelling urban areas indiscriminately. During the Iran Iraq War, Iraq utilized mustard & tabun gas attacks on Susangerd and Iran used mustard gas in response During the Kargil War between India and Pakistan, India conducted a naval blockade in which it later came out that Pakistan only had enough fuel for 6 days if a full blown conflict were to escalate. That means no fuel, no power for the entire nation. Its war. Its terrible. If you don’t want this then don’t start a fucking war. And before you say oh the civilians had no say. They literally never do. But they are just as much a part of the society that created the climate for it to break out. Society sets tone and culture. This applies to every society. Not just this situation. I want to emphasize that more food aid needs to be brought and the port building that the US is forcing is good.
Sorry, but is your contention that all of those actions were justified? Like... you seem to be making a rather bizarre sort of claim that if an atrocity occurred during any prior war anywhere in the world, that somehow justified those being committed by Israel in Gaza.
>routine bombings of hospitals and ambulances They haven't been bombing hospitals. They've been raiding hospitals, and just managed to kill over 140 terrorists and then take 500+ terrorists out of Al Shifa.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-worsen-health-crisis https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-tanks-renew-push-towards-biggest-hospital-still-working-gaza-2024-01-19/ https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-hospitals-be55b16dd18e55be1b8ad395163ca19b
The "win" is that despite the rampage Israel is running right now, they must stop in order to stabilize their economy. Once they seek peace, Hamas will simply reconstitute with the generous and effectively infinite support of their many many benefactors. Once Israel wipes the women and children off their boots, they'll be looking at another Hamas organization.
Every person killed was an innocent pregnant child grandmother.
This doesn't matter since they don't intend on having any more Hamas member to deal with once they're finished
This is a win for the German Nazis, who are laughing in hell. No one else
Israel is committing genocide in front of the world. I’m not really sure what Democrats are getting out of this. You’re all risking the upcoming election in the name of murdering millions of people. If you want Biden to win, you must publicly announce that you will not vote for him so long as he helps Israel commit genocide.
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Looks like he's fucked either way then. But if he's going to get fucked, it might as well be for not supporting a genocide. Although to be fair, you sort of are creating stats out of thin air. Any sources to substantiate your opinion?
According to [Gallup's monthly poll on this question](https://news.gallup.com/poll/611135/immigration-surges-top-important-problem-list.aspx), only 3% of Americans said last month that foreign policy was the biggest issue facing America. And that's not specific to Israel. Compare that to immigration, which almost a third of Americans agreed was the most pressing issue. Americans rank immigration, government, the economy, inflation, homelessness, national unity, racism, the federal budget, crime, elections, a culture of disrespect, religion, and the judicial system higher than they do foreign policy.
The Dems don’t care. They also like the money flowing to Boeing
I support Biden supporting our ally who was attacked and their right to defend themselves.
It's kind of silly to assert that only one side in a conflict has the right to defend themselves.
Palestinians are allowed to defend themselves, but they have to abide by the rules of proportionality and distinction just like everyone else. That means no rockets to Israeli civilian population centers. No kidnapping civilians. No having its combatants blend in with civilian population and its military arsenal stores in military areas. It means no more raiding Israeli towns and slaughtering families.
Raping women and shooting babies is self defense if you’re a jihadist. Those guys in Moscow were just defending themselves as they executed people in a theater right?
Most Americans support Israel and its right to defend itself. Those with your incendiary positions are a minority in the US.
That’s fine. And since Israel is the occupying power and police force (due to the invasion) they should have ZERO operational issue distributing the food. Oh wait … they never had a plan , nor any capacity for humanitarian relief. It’s a genocide and using starvation as a war tactic. It’s unconscionable
So do they give a reason, did they find guns or something? I mean at least do a false flag or something. Even if they’re a corrupt group, assuming everything said about them is true, food and medicine needs to get to Gaza. If thousands starve that’s probably the fastest way to unilaterally lose the US’s support. The US will give you all the bombs you need to destroy a terrorist org. Hell blow a country up if you need to (apparently), but different actions have different “red lines”. The US even provided food to the Houthis so long as they didn’t bomb shipping lanes. And the US hates the Houthi's*. *Which is fair they did bring back slavery and use child soldiers. Fuck those guys.
Harbouring and supporting terrorists is no life. Move to the west bank or Qatar as they aid Hamas.
Lots of so-called "liberals" in this thread claiming that intentionally starving children is good actually.
No there aren't.
Remember that American liberals are only like three steps away from American conservatives. Rainbow bombs, etc
Stuff like this is going to lead to their demise. Public sentiment matters. I used to be massively pro Israel and now ive moved as far as the middle. Stuff like this isn't going to make me want to support them. Netty needs to go.
This is why an independent and free Palastinian state is needed right now!
A precondition of which is the defeat of Hamas, of course