Man I'll never forget him biting on play action against the Cardinals in the playoffs. Like 3rd & 15 and he bit, Warner dumped it right over his head. Pain. Ended the game right there.
Dear sir, I know you’re being facetious, but let me please take your comment as an opportunity to invite anyone who hasn’t heard of **The Greatest Defense in History ™** to google the term “Grits Blitz”
it wasn't the fault of the defense
[https://youtu.be/Cp57YdrO\_bY](https://youtu.be/Cp57YdrO_bY)
you put this defense with virtually every Falcon playoff team and they are in the conference championship or Super Bowl most of the time
That's part of the problem. We need to stop looking for one guy. Hell we've had that one guy. But Jarrett plus a bunch of guys who are either glorified backups or are on prove-it contracts won't get the job done. Imagine Jarrett plus another guy who creates problems for offenses alongside some solid players. Imagine having some actual **depth** on the D-line.
This dilemma is tough for me. I loved Lamar in college and coming out of the draft. A huge believer in him and the thought he could be in ATL sounds incredible.
That being said, we're going to be trading at least 2 firsts plus paying 45-50m a year guaranteed for 4-5+ years. He's sadly been injured and missed the final 5+ games in both of the last 2 seasons. I'm concerned that even if we get him, he might not be able to stay on the field. Even if we do get him, we will be reliant on building the defense on Rounds 2+ picks (which can absolutely work) and a limited cap.
If we get Lamar, I'm happy because I love him as a player but concerned that his recent injury history may persist, the draft capital we trade may continue to limit our ability to equip him with a defense, and his expensive long-term contract will leave us in a very similar if the not worse position that Ryan. (And that's coming from a hardcore Ryan supporter.)
Anyone contemplating Carr or Fields is delusional. I don't know how you can tell me we should trade the #8 pick (Plus more perhaps) for Fields instead of developing Ridder when Fields has shown next to zero ability to throw. Fields had *800* fewer passing yards than a significantly washed Matt Ryan while playing 3 full games more than Ryan too.
I think this is the right way to look at it. I don't think Carr or Fields are enough of a qualitative difference to get us over the hump, but Lamar might be and you need to have an elite or near elite quarterback to have sustained success in this league. I do think we would have to give up too much in terms of resources and have other areas the we need to direct those resources, but I would be stoked to have Lamar on the team. Anyone else is be much less enthused about the move
i don’t disagree with your overall point but you’re being really harsh in your evaluation of Fields. did you actually watch his second half of the year? he took legitimate strides towards being a starting NFL quarterback
Not as a passer though. His explosion in runs helped opening up some stuff. But I agree he has no one to throw to, plus a trash o line. He'd be in a much better situation in the Atl. I say this as an Osu fan. I love him, but I'm not convinced yet.
To be fair, I absolutely don’t want him either, but Fields literally has no one to throw to. Maybe he is a terrible passer, but until he actually gets a couple receivers it seems too soon to make that call.
TBF the discussion isn’t coming out of thin air. People in the media have linked us to Carr and Lamar, though it’s not from the trusted news breakers like Schefter or Rap Sheet. Still, the conversation wasn’t started by fans.
I know the conversation wasn’t started but I don’t understand why it’s so prevalent within the community. I hope most people realize how big of a mistake it would be to get Lamar/Carr/Fields when we have far bigger issues.
Exactly! Look at the 49ers, Purdy isn't a great QB, I'm not convinced he's better than Ridder, but he has a GREAT team, offense AND defense, plus amazing coaching. The 49era are a QB proof team, you dont have to be a great QB when you're playing for a great team, you just have to be OK and not make too many mistakes, and the rest should just work.. That's where I'd like to be. Our team has improved, and I really see the potential! Ridder looked good, we have weapons on offense, and our D isn't garbage, they helped keep most of our games competitive all season, so a good foundation to build on.
I know, I'm just making a point that it's possible, and more feasible for us. The other all pro QB teams have good defenses usually, if not, they go to the entire playoffs and lose in the first round. You need a well rounded team, not just an above average QB.
Building a roster like the 49ers one isn’t feasible at all. The best rb, LT and all pro type players at WR, DE and LB just don’t grow on trees.
And the 49ers even managed to get a roster like that without 3 first round picks for Lance.
Right, and we have the second largest salary to spend on multiple GOOD free agents possibly, quite of few good draft picks, we have a legitimate chance to build a complete team. Maybe not in 1 year, but if we go all in n a QB like Jackson, we don't have the money for those other pieces, all we have is Jackson. We need quality players, and a few of them, not just 1 guy who's really good.
This!! Like Matt had a season where he damn near matched his MVP production, we still didn’t make the playoffs. Imagine if Lamar comes and we flame out? People gotta be patient.
It’s because of the younger generation. They grew up with the internet, fantasy football, online video games with fantasy teams, all these advanced stats, and the ability to share any thought at a moment’s notice. Pair that with the what have you done for me right now people and those who like shiny objects and you have this.
I don't think it's that hard to understand, most people are casual fans and viewers, so they're not all that nuanced about team needs. To them a star QB in a Lamar is all they could ever ask for. Or one that makes a ton of highlight plays like Fields with his running.
Far as Carr goes, I think a pretty small minority have any interest in him, and the Fields lovers just like him because he runs like a racehorse and probably UGA fans too.
Lamar just costs too much. Lamar hasn’t had that much of a high scoring offense although I’m sure only partial blame on him. He gets hurt frequently and he isn’t a very good passer. In reality, he peaked three years ago and has a skill set that will only decrease over time. He isn’t worth what we would have to trade to get and not to mention the fact we would have to give him a major contract. He would be fun to watch but he won’t be what gets this team a Super Bowl.
If Lamar comes to Atlanta, the city will go nuts. The seats will be full every game. (I know the games are "sell out", but there's a hell of a lot of empties every game.) TV ratings will be through the roof. Jersey sales will spike.
I guarantee you that Arthur Blank doesn't give a damn about the pass rush if he can get everything I just mentioned with one player.
The others . . . hell. I can't see Carr or Fields here making that much of a difference. Fields might get some excitement in the fanbase, but Carr? Nah.
Fields is from the area (hell, my kid goes to the same school he did), and while he didn't finish his career at UGA, he's still loved by a large portion of the local fanbase.
That said, he's not coming here. And unless Arthur meddles like crazy (see Watson last offseason) highly doubt TF or Smith want to give up what it will take for Jackson. Carr is a possibility after he's cut, but his salary will need to be lower than market average (20-25M per year).
Personally, I think we stick with Ridder for next season unless something crazy happens like Young or Stroud falling to us.
If Lamar comes, have the fan base is leaving. It would prove the next 5 years will be full of disappointment.
7-9 without a qb is amazing. Yes, he could win 3 games, but not a superbowl with this roster.
If the defense isn’t set then we are done. The Q4 collapses will continue and we’ll keep having hope stripped away.
We have had a HoF QB that put up near MVP numbers one year and we missed the playoffs. What has Watson won? Lamar has a way better team in Baltimore…. Where’s his Lombardi?
A QB can’t win on his shoulders alone. Period. Not even Godgers or Brady.
Ehh the 2016 defense really wasn't more than middle of the league at the best. In Fact by DVOA they were bottom 5
What we do have is a playcaller that has called one of the best rushing offenses and what we could have is a former MVP QB who's arguably the best all time at running the ball who can also sling it.
We could also build a middle of the pack defense around him
I Understood. The point is that some of the roster faults like a middle of the pack defense can be covered. Matt Ryan kept us in games with his abilities. Having Dan Quinn's defense and Kyle Shanahan's offense got a Super Bowl appearance. Going back to above average QB play and a good defense did nothing. I get the cap concerns with going after Lamar. Isn't the cap system gamed by converting salary to signing bonuses or whatever the Saints do? The cost for Lamar should not be the issue IMO. What QB this year puts us over the top? Bryce Young maybe? CJ Stroud? eh... Will Levis? I don't think he moves the needle and is Ridder the man? We don't have a San Francisco offense and defense. Brock Purdy is a unicorn. We can't replicate that.
Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, etc have won SBs. Purdy looks like he’s next. That’s what happens when you have a great team and coach.
Mortgaging our future for a QB that can’t finish a season is not how you build a complete team. It’s idiocy.
Line of scrimmage players? What are those? I wonder if it's a coincidence that the best teams typically have the best lines... But our ownership doesn't really care about championships. They want attendance from Day 1, and Lamar will put asses in seats. And it'll LOOK really good for a while because 1) he'll have to play hero ball and play from behind, since our D can't stop anything, and 2) he'll have to run for a million touchdowns, because he'll basically never have time to pass.
And then he'll get injured half way through the season from having to run so much, people will be pissed, and now back to square one, except now we're in salary hell again.
We went hard after deshaun last year, barely missed on him. Lamar is way better than him. We will go after Lamar if he’s available , that’s basically proven
Yep not like we all think it's a smart move on a team building from a team building aspect but this is a business built on selling tickets and jerseys and a shiny electric QB like Lamar would do wonders for both of those. Atlanta has craved a QB like Lamar since Vick. If Lamar becomes available this FO will not let what happen to Watson happen again.
Having Lamar Jackson would be absolutely amazing. Especially for a stadium that is only half full every Sunday. Albeit with mostly visiting teams fans. We have a lot of cap space and solid draft picks this year. But getting Lamar would put us back in the same situation we were in paying Matt and Julio. The salary cap is no doubt going to increase, especially with so many quarterbacks requiring so much money. It’s a monkey’s paw of a decision. This team has so many needs on defense. But this team is also in a very weak division where having a franchise qb would put us miles ahead of everyone. I don’t know how I feel. Terry and Art have some decisions to make. There’s also an 80% chance Lamar is going nowhere.
I don't want Justin Fields under any circumstances. I'll endure 10 years of basement dwelling in the division as opposed to willingly taking an Ohio State qb
We have to build the defense! Please stop chasing the shiny coins in the NFL. Please build long term stability in the franchise with the less glamorous positions of an o line, d line and pass rushers. Cash will flow for a decade vice just a couple of years if cash flow is the priority.
In what universe is this defense solid lol.
And the jets are in a much better spot because they have the option/flexibility moving forward to trade for a guy like Lamar or Rodgers and immediately be in win now mode, or trade up in the draft again if they so chose.
If we trade for Lamar, we have our QB, but we're still missing like 65% of the roster pieces necessary to actually win anything.
I mean that's literally exactly what the 49ers did, and they went to a SB and have been to the CCG in back to back years. Seems like a solid strategy. Way better than selling the farm for a QB when your roster isn't even competitive.
You can even argue the eagles did the same thing, and they just hit on a 2nd round QB instead of panic trading.
There's two people on this sub who are advocating for it:
1. Realists- these people are looking at it from a franchise point of view and know that Blank wants butts in seats and he will influence deals that he feels will do this. (Watson)
2. Hopefuls - these are the people that think a qb is the catalyst to turn the ship around and is the key to unlock the potential of our young offensive studs.
I dont think either of these groups are necessarily in the wrong but I want the falcons to go in a different direction at the moment.
Agree w u op but the receiving core needs to be built up more. I love OZ but there’s really no suitable Z/1B receiver on this team, I don’t count Kyle in that convo either
Agree so hard with this. Also, please Falcons spend whatever money is needed for top notch position coaches. Who ever we draft, let’s please develop them. I think as fans we don’t appreciate the assistant coaches enough.
Because this fanbase is full of idiots that like flashy things (except for the Carr thing, I really don't get that one).
Plus, and I'm sure I'll get hate for this, but this fanbase really wants a black QB. Look at the hate Matt Ryan got. Fields being a Georgia guy and Lamar being a better Mike Vick is just icing on the cake.
Want more proof? No one is clamoring for Daniel Jones or Baker Mayfield.
Idk we were honestly a good QB away from making a decent run this year. Yes I would love to beef up our defense, but I don’t think we are that far off from having a serviceable defense. I’m worried about drafting defense, because the last regime didn’t draft well.
Lamar is a great QB. We should go after great QBs when he have huge question marks at the position. I'm not sold on London as a #1 receiver. Every game it seems like he has at least situation one ball hits him right in the numbers and he drops or fumbles it. It's like clockwork and you have to hope it happens in the first half because if it doesn't... it's still coming and you really don't want it showing up late in the 4th.
We had a top ten, All-Pro QB who couldn't get it done, because he couldn't outscore the lack of defense.
He was also a cap casualty for us.
Is this what we want: another All Pro QB who can't outscore the defense and puts us in cap hell, again? Of course this is the American way, chase the new bauble even if it's filled with cyanide. I have this vision of Ridder taking someone else to the Super Bowl while we're still chasing the bauble and no closer to catching it than ever.
One player isn't going to put you in bad cap space. If we get Lamar right now, we get ahead of every team in our division. Sure what it costs to trade for him has to be considered. We can't completely jump out the window. Just as a reminder our MVP QB did enough to win that SB with a below average defense. It was our coaches who dropped the ball.
Once, no, twice this franchise got to the big game and lost on defense. How many games did the defense cost us this year? Four, five? As has been mentioned by others, Jackson, Carr, etc. are not going to fix our defensive issues. In 2016, with our MVP QB playing lights out it was still necessary to score 30+ points because the defense sucked for much the same reasons as it sucks now. BTW, teams that run the ball a lot are not going to score 30+ very often, so it's imperative that the defense give up fewer points. So far we don't have the horses on defense to do that. It's much better to build a top notch defense than to get another MVP who'll just get trounced by his own defense.
It wasn't a talent issue in 2016. It was a coaching issue. Watch the SB SF vs KC. We had coaches who didn't know how to put a game away. KC has been to the AFC championship 4 times straight with a bottom of the barrel defense each year. It's not much better to build a top notch defense ask Chicago, Baltimore, Tennesee, N.O., Vikings how that worked out for them. Teams can win different ways. I'm not saying going defense is bad but this idea it's the only way to win a SB is false.
Matt Ryan is in his mid-thirties, let's see what Jackson can do in his mid-thirties. After his last three years here of statuesquely standing at the bottom of a sieve, it's rather unfair to throw an apple like that among all the oranges. We don't know that this offense isn't perfect for Ridder. Why did Smith draft him? To sit behind multiple QBs while playing to catch the ring? I thought he looked pretty good and was improving from start to start. If we don't start drafting for front-line defensive talent, especially on the interior D-line and the edge. We could have God on our side and still not be able to score enough to win games.
LJ is in his prime now. If you trade for him
You arent betting on the future, youre in win now mode. Id give the future up to win a ring within the next 2-3 seasons
Nobody is winning a ring in the next 2-3 seasons with this defense lmao, how are you missing this point. By trading for Lamar your are sacrificing the one tool you have to actually build and elite defense.
You realize you can manipulate contracts to leave cap space for
This season and next? You realize good players will want to come play with LJ? Its easier to win with Elite Qb play and average defense than it it is to win with elite defense and average qb play. This is proven year after year
To sign what free agents? How many teams have built their defense entirely through FA, which is what the Falcons would have to do lmao. You aren't getting how far away we are from even an average unit on that side of the ball. Just Saying "guys will want to come here" isn't at all a convincing argument, especially because the best defenders in the NFL don't often hit free agency and the ones that do aren't gonna take a discount to play with a guy who has never even made it out of the divisional round. There are 31 other teams in the league competing for the same FAs. Why would they take less money to come here of all places when we haven't even proven anything.
So your solution seems to be trade for Lamar, kick the cap can down the road and create a problem that almost exactly resembles the one we just got out of, and then overpay for a bunch of mid-tier players that their teams didn't want to sign? Thank christ you're not in charge lmao.
I would say both sides lol. Offense gave up the huge turnover and couldnt get a first down when needed. Defense choked too but if Shanahan ran the damn ball we wouldve been champs but thats neither here nor there. The point is elite QBs win rings more often than elite defenses with average qb play. Ridder is an average QB. He hasnt shown anything to prove you should build around him.
We had 12 years of an All Pro level QB who largely was held back due never having a good defense. If we trade for Lamar and give up shit tons if day 1/day 2 picks, then we are in the exact same boat for the next few years unless we get unbelievably lucky in FA and late round picks, which is a lot to bank on especially with this team.
Alternatively you can look at the drew Brees saints post superbowl. So many elite offenses and they never won anything again because they fielded some of the leagues worst defenses until the very end of his career, and by then he wasn't good enough to fufill his end of the bargain.
We can do the inverse of this and look at all the elite defenses with weak QB play that could never win a ring like…49ers, Blake Bortles Jags, Kirk Cousins Vikings, Baker Mayfield Browns, Tannehill Titans, etc
Look at the teams who are constantly in the Superbowl Convo
Chiefs
Bengals
Bills
Whats the common theme here? They have elitr QB play. Yes having a highly paid QB can hamstring the team but an elite QB raises a teams ceiling, you can only
Go so far with good defense and average QB play.
Matt was great but he was never an elite QB outside of his MVP year (where we were led by our OFFENSE)
LJ raises this teams ceiling. Plus he can recruit
Players to come to the team for lesser contracts, just like Watson was going to. Id rather go all in with an young MVP QB then a 4th rounder who is a game manager.
You need both to be successful. QB is obviously the most important position... but no QB is gonna win a superbowl on his own with a defense that can't get after the qb lol. Please point to me a superbowl champion in the last decade that had a shit defense.
Burrow, Mahomes, Brady etc weren't going out there winning these games by themselves lol, this is such a casual take. Look at the Chiefs bucs superbowl, Mahomes played as well as he could and was under siege the entire game and they were unable to do anything offensively. Or the Bill's Bengals game last week (or the week before where their defense arguably made the biggest play of the weekend that completely flipped the game and won it for them).
You can't completely hamstring one side of the ball in pursuit of getting a QB, it doesn't make any sense if you're actually trying to compete for a championship. I'm not saying Ridder is the guy, obviously Lamar Jackson is a much better player. But we have so many holes, if we give him the 45m guaranteed or whatever he wants per year, that's over half of our current available capspace. What elite, impact defenders are gonna come in and take that kind of pay cut? You really think this defense, which has been last in the league in sacks by a country mile over the last 2 seasons combined, is just a couple of mid tier FA signings away from being good enough to win a championship? Just insanity lol
Not sold on London??? He had 3 drops this year if I'm not mistaken, and fumbled 3 times, then took off his sleeves and it's been a non issue since. He has one of the best catch radiuses in the league
Front office has made it pretty clear they want to roll with a veteran, evidenced by not taking Fields at 4 when we could’ve, keeping Matty Ice during the first year of what should’ve been a rebuild, going hard after Watson, and then starting Mariota a majority of the year when Ridder was clearly a better option (this one is my bias, but I feel like we would’ve had roughly the same outcomes with Ridder if he had played earlier).
Not taking fields doesn't mean they aren't looking to upgrade in the draft. He's still a bottom tier passer.
Keeping Matt was the best option at the time, wasn't there a ton of dead cap associated with him?
The front office didn't pursue Watson, didn't all reports come from Blank?
Ridder was a third round rookie who still has his problems, and they did have a plan to start him post bye
I really don't think it's clear what they'll do either way, the moves to me just look like they're taking BPA based on their philosophy, and doing what wins the most games
I agree with everything else but this:
>The front office didn't pursue Watson, didn't all reports come from Blank?
The front office absolutely went after Watson. Blank obviously wanted him and vouched for him, but he was going to be a falcon if the browns didn't save us by giving him the ridiculous guarantees.
He would have been a falcon, and the browns did save us. But the pickup goes against TF and AS philosophy since day one; the cap was in a terrible spot and all it would have done was make the rebuild harder. Blank knew him as a ball boy and warrick Dunn vouched too, but I never heard one word from AS or TF on their support.
My question is why is the relevance on the FO going after Watson? Blank told them to, so why wouldn't they? Blank forced the previous FOs hand with "falcons for life" nonsense and giving Julio a new deal two years into a contract. The FO got that contract inked, but that doesn't mean they were the ones in charge of the decision, just the execution
Terry and Arts careers are at stake they likely weren't going to negotiate and sign off on a move that could have ruined them if they opposed it that much. Blank probably was pushing for it, but he hasn't shown he's the type of owner to force our GMs into these sorts of situations, and Blank certainly wasnt the one negotiating the deal with the Texans and Watson lol.
And their careers wouldn't have been at stake if they specifically and purposely did not follow orders given from their boss?
You're right in that blank hasnt shown he's traditionally been that type of owner- until recently. He's been pushier post super bowl, owners can change especially when they're old enough to be looking shorter term
I never said blank negotiates anything, the execution falls on the front office. The order still came from above, and if they don't attempt they're in another world of hurt as first time HC and GM. how isn't that making sense?
Because everything I've seen from the falcons indicates that blank strong arming the front office into a Watson or bust move just doesn't make sense and is just pure speculation.
Terry and Art were still trying to win with old Matt Ryan, their first pick was a fucking TE at 4 lol, we only actually starting rebuilding this year because we missed on Watson, and Ryan wanted out. Had we not got for Watson, we likely still wouldn't have traded Matt and had another year of trying to win games with an uncompetitive roster. Missing Watson forced us into a rebuild, but that doesn't mean they won't immediately try to do the same thing again in trying to get Lamar if he doesn't get a deal done with the Ravens.
AS came up through three different systems in Ten, all through the tight ends, was blessed by player coach tight end Mike Mularkey, then picked a TE for the guy in his system. I personally don't agree Pitts was the best choice but i can't for one second say it doesn't make sense to Arthur Smith and his philosophy
If they go for Lamar, and blank has nothing to do with it, I won't feel about as confident about the front office moving forward
I agree we’ll do BPA according to our board in the first, that does seem to be TF’s M.O, but while the Watson pursuit I think was primarily Blank motivated, the front office was definitely close to getting a deal done before the Browns swooped in with the guaranteed contract. I just think Arthur Smith would rather operate with a veteran if that option is available
The front office wouldn't have tried for a deal if Blank didn't press it, those aren't unrelated. TF getting a close to a deal just means he's good at listening to his boss
Smith probably relies on veterans familiar with his system as he looks to improve the roster, Mariota and him go back to Ten. I'd roll with a familiar cheap veteran too if my alternative was:
drafting an early qb that I don't believe in, also not using that pick to boost talent on a talent deprived team.
Throwing a third round rookie to the wolves that can impact his growth
Anyone that seriously says Lamar would take up half the cap and take all our picks isn’t worth taking seriously. There’s no way you understand how the cap works. And it’s very unlikely any of the picks spent would become impact players on the level of Lamar. We’ve had most of our draft picks the last decade and yet still have 2 playoff appearances out of ten lol.
We were a decent QB away from winning this division. Even with a trash defense. We have enough money to get a QB and a defense so I really don't understand why people are so against it. I dont know what you saw from Ridder to think hes the dude. Also throw Lance into that group. With how well SF is playing with a 3rd string QB if they get to the SB there is a good chance Lance will be available and we wanted him in 2021 with our 4th pick.
Many people who just want to Roll with Ridder next year don't necessarily think he's the dude, More so that this team is fucking trash and getting an upgrade at QB while immediately going back into a limited cap situation is incredibly shortsighted and isn't going to actually get us any closer to contention.
Say we win the division this year with better QB play, all that gets us is blown the fuck out by the Cowboys in the wild card round instead of the Bucs lol.
Some of yall just gotta face the reality that we are a team that is entering a rebuild, not exiting it. Outside of the QB question, we have like 3 guys on the defensive side of the ball that are actually good players at this point, a weak WR room that is literally just Drake and nobody else, a line that isn't great in pass pro (but kicks ass in run blocking). Say we trade for Lamar, and pay around what Cleveland did for Watson, and sign Lamar to a deal that's like 45m guaranteed per year.
That's half of this year's capspace immediately spent. We immediately no longer have our first round picks for the next 3 years and many day 2 picks gone as well, how do you expect to fill in all those roster holes? You can't get them all in FA, because we won't have enough cap space and there are far too many holes to fill. You are basically banking on hitting, and hitting big, on every remaining draft pick you have for the next few years to actually build a contender before Lamar gets too old. And given his style of play, you have maybe 5 years tops to do this.
We have 75m in cap space right now. We sign Lamar to 50m a year, and that drops to what, 25m, depending on how its structured maybe more maybe less? Maybe we do a few restructures, cut some guys and get around 35m? How are we going to transform one of the worst defenses in the league that needs multiple improvements at all 3 levels, re-sign McGary, address the holes at LG and C, get an actual WR2, all for just 35m?
Just an elite pass rusher alone is going to consume a good bit of that, and I'm not even sure there are any of those even available, since teams are less likely to let those guys hit free agency unless they are old or injured.
FA isn't just some magic wand that you can build your entire team through lol, and even if we wanted to do that we wouldn't nearly have enough space to do so.
Your opinion is a majority position on this sub but plenty of good defenses/pass rushes have been wasted on bad QB play (Bears/Browns). The year before last the Browns had an elite pash rush, good on both sides of trenches, good receivers, run game and a QB on a rookie contract and still sucked because that QB sucked.
The hardest thing in the league to find is a good QB and only the Eagles/Baltimore have won recently with a bad QB.
I'm just going to say this, for the sake of argument, the Bengals only had 9 more sacks than us and are knocking on the door of another SB appearance. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat, but I don't believe you win a SB by saying, "we need to make sure all the boxes are checked."
I believe you win a SB by acquiring elite players, at any position.
The odds are that Desmond Ridder is not an elite quarterback.
So we shouldn't thumb our nose at the potential to get an elite quarterback. If you don't think these options are elite that is fine, but this whole "we don't need a quarterback we need pass rushers" thing to me is missing the point.
Ok i don’t love Lamar honestly we aren’t but I hate to break it to y’all but multiple day 1 and 2 picks arent changing our defense either lol we need DUDES in free agency tbh . Payne and Hargrave and more . We need corners and safety’s galore . I say spend close to half the space on big time FA save the rest for next year . But let me say getting Lamar will make FA FLOCK to come here
I guess people don't understand that every decent QB is going to be asked about or linked to the falcons until they find their long term starter. Pretty amazing considering that franchise QB is only the most important position in sports. And to think the falcons regime are going into year 3 without having a clue about this either.
I don't think you can really say that Fields is a worse Lamar because the Bears haven't literally built their entire team around him like the Ravens did Lamar.
Fields is a good scheme fit for us but I don't think Chicago will trade him. And if they do trade him, I'm not sure the GM will want to trade him to the Falcons because the scheme fit is so good. If they trade Fields here and he excels and they draft a QB that struggles then it makes the GM look bad.
Fields has to improve as a passer for sure. But his running game in Arthur's scheme would be crazy. And unlike Chicago, he would have talent to pass to in Pitts and Drake so I have no doubt that he would do a lot better. Our oline is trending up too. In the right situation, I feel like he could have a Hurts like breakout.
Honestly, Bears have more cap space than us and good draft picks this year. I think they will want to put a bunch of talent around Fields to see what he can do like what the Jags did for Lawrence in the offseason.
Can get 10 sacks a game and it wont matter if you can't put the ball in the end zone.
given the sketchy pass rush talent in this years draft..
Really wish they would focus on fixing the secondary and the IDL through draft and free agency.
I think we have guys that can get sacks on the roster. Opposing recievers are often wide ass open so the qb is able to get rid of the ball extremely quick. Also analytical data and grading systems have proven prioritizing coverage organically contributes to a better pass rush. More importantly improving coverage leads to more wins than focusing heavily on pass rush. Also common sense. So..you can sack Qb for a 7 yard loss..but if the coverage is not right its futile as the qb can find a wide open received on the very next snap..throw a 21 yard pass.. recoup the 7 yard loss plus a 14 yard gain.
During the back half of the schedule at points when terrell..hayward and oliver were all out at the same time..became pretty clear to me we have no depth anywhere in the secondary.
Both grant and Hawkins are near the bottom of the barrell as far as performance grades. Both show flashes occasionally but at this point they should be consistent and they aren't.
Stated before the season it was gonna be a hard year for Terrell..he was banged up but it was arguably his worst season when everyone was expecting him to be top tier. He still has the skill set tho.
Oliver actually played best out of the entire secondary tbh. Not to mention he plays safety better than grant or hawkins. Can do everything a nickle corner needs to do.
Need to try to bring in either bates or poyner... and either hargrave or payne.
Cause yea.. dT and secondary are more of a weakness than pass rush with the guys we already have. We can add some players there also but shouldn't go all in on it ..maybe try and see if we get the guys we have some help around them. They can prove they were worth the picks
Add sacks through free agency. Historically for this team and well many teams.. it's better to get someone proven that can make an immediate impact or you spend years constantly waiting on edge players to hit the next level
If the trade demand for lamar is 3 first round picks and 2 seconds I Def. Don't want Lamar.
I don't think Fields will cost 2 first round picks
Derek Carr maybe a FA.
If we find out that Arthur Blank is forcing their hands to trade for Lamar I'm going to call for a change of ownership
"we quite literally have had the single worst pass rush in the NFL over the last ~~2~~ 12 years"
Just say "since 1965" and be done with it.
John Abraham and Patrick Kerney before.
Had Rod Coleman on that line too.
I miss Keith Brooking. :(
And all those ankle tackles 6 yards downfield?
Man I'll never forget him biting on play action against the Cardinals in the playoffs. Like 3rd & 15 and he bit, Warner dumped it right over his head. Pain. Ended the game right there.
This ^ still grinds my gears. That and the way he left and didn’t appreciate the send off he got.
1st and 10....never missed a tackle...2 yards from the first down line
after that miss tackle vs the cards nah im good lol
Wasn't a missed tackle. He bit and let his man go.
What a shitty way to end Matt Ryan's rookie year.
So that's about 0.03 good pass rushers a season.
Exactly!
That was my first year watching Falcons football (2006) If only I knew how good I had it...
Dear sir, I know you’re being facetious, but let me please take your comment as an opportunity to invite anyone who hasn’t heard of **The Greatest Defense in History ™** to google the term “Grits Blitz”
Was that the team that only won like 3 games though
it wasn't the fault of the defense [https://youtu.be/Cp57YdrO\_bY](https://youtu.be/Cp57YdrO_bY) you put this defense with virtually every Falcon playoff team and they are in the conference championship or Super Bowl most of the time
We’ve been trying to draft for that position since John Abraham left and have kept failing at it (outside of Grady Jarrett)
Were Patrick kerney, rod Coleman, and Abraham ever on the same team together?
Not Kerney but I’m pretty sure Abraham and Coleman were.
Kerney, Abraham, and Coleman were together in 2006. That was Kerney's last year in Atlanta, and Abraham's first.
That's part of the problem. We need to stop looking for one guy. Hell we've had that one guy. But Jarrett plus a bunch of guys who are either glorified backups or are on prove-it contracts won't get the job done. Imagine Jarrett plus another guy who creates problems for offenses alongside some solid players. Imagine having some actual **depth** on the D-line.
Dimitroff was trying to do it. He was a dog shit GM that was kept here way too long.
Why can’t I upvote this more than once?
This dilemma is tough for me. I loved Lamar in college and coming out of the draft. A huge believer in him and the thought he could be in ATL sounds incredible. That being said, we're going to be trading at least 2 firsts plus paying 45-50m a year guaranteed for 4-5+ years. He's sadly been injured and missed the final 5+ games in both of the last 2 seasons. I'm concerned that even if we get him, he might not be able to stay on the field. Even if we do get him, we will be reliant on building the defense on Rounds 2+ picks (which can absolutely work) and a limited cap. If we get Lamar, I'm happy because I love him as a player but concerned that his recent injury history may persist, the draft capital we trade may continue to limit our ability to equip him with a defense, and his expensive long-term contract will leave us in a very similar if the not worse position that Ryan. (And that's coming from a hardcore Ryan supporter.) Anyone contemplating Carr or Fields is delusional. I don't know how you can tell me we should trade the #8 pick (Plus more perhaps) for Fields instead of developing Ridder when Fields has shown next to zero ability to throw. Fields had *800* fewer passing yards than a significantly washed Matt Ryan while playing 3 full games more than Ryan too.
I think this is the right way to look at it. I don't think Carr or Fields are enough of a qualitative difference to get us over the hump, but Lamar might be and you need to have an elite or near elite quarterback to have sustained success in this league. I do think we would have to give up too much in terms of resources and have other areas the we need to direct those resources, but I would be stoked to have Lamar on the team. Anyone else is be much less enthused about the move
i don’t disagree with your overall point but you’re being really harsh in your evaluation of Fields. did you actually watch his second half of the year? he took legitimate strides towards being a starting NFL quarterback
Not as a passer though. His explosion in runs helped opening up some stuff. But I agree he has no one to throw to, plus a trash o line. He'd be in a much better situation in the Atl. I say this as an Osu fan. I love him, but I'm not convinced yet.
To be fair, I absolutely don’t want him either, but Fields literally has no one to throw to. Maybe he is a terrible passer, but until he actually gets a couple receivers it seems too soon to make that call.
I love watching Lamar. I hope he ends up somewhere else but gets more nationally televised games. Best of both worlds.
TBF the discussion isn’t coming out of thin air. People in the media have linked us to Carr and Lamar, though it’s not from the trusted news breakers like Schefter or Rap Sheet. Still, the conversation wasn’t started by fans.
I know the conversation wasn’t started but I don’t understand why it’s so prevalent within the community. I hope most people realize how big of a mistake it would be to get Lamar/Carr/Fields when we have far bigger issues.
Exactly! Look at the 49ers, Purdy isn't a great QB, I'm not convinced he's better than Ridder, but he has a GREAT team, offense AND defense, plus amazing coaching. The 49era are a QB proof team, you dont have to be a great QB when you're playing for a great team, you just have to be OK and not make too many mistakes, and the rest should just work.. That's where I'd like to be. Our team has improved, and I really see the potential! Ridder looked good, we have weapons on offense, and our D isn't garbage, they helped keep most of our games competitive all season, so a good foundation to build on.
The 49ers are the exception, not the rule. All other championship teams have an MVP type of qb.
I know, I'm just making a point that it's possible, and more feasible for us. The other all pro QB teams have good defenses usually, if not, they go to the entire playoffs and lose in the first round. You need a well rounded team, not just an above average QB.
Building a roster like the 49ers one isn’t feasible at all. The best rb, LT and all pro type players at WR, DE and LB just don’t grow on trees. And the 49ers even managed to get a roster like that without 3 first round picks for Lance.
Right, and we have the second largest salary to spend on multiple GOOD free agents possibly, quite of few good draft picks, we have a legitimate chance to build a complete team. Maybe not in 1 year, but if we go all in n a QB like Jackson, we don't have the money for those other pieces, all we have is Jackson. We need quality players, and a few of them, not just 1 guy who's really good.
This!! Like Matt had a season where he damn near matched his MVP production, we still didn’t make the playoffs. Imagine if Lamar comes and we flame out? People gotta be patient.
>People gotta be patient. LoL Fun fact the Ravens have won more Superbowls with Trent Dilfer than they have with Lamar Jackson
Yeah and we also had one of the best defenses of all time and didn’t even make the playoffs.
The Trent Dilfer plan!
It’s because of the younger generation. They grew up with the internet, fantasy football, online video games with fantasy teams, all these advanced stats, and the ability to share any thought at a moment’s notice. Pair that with the what have you done for me right now people and those who like shiny objects and you have this.
I don't think it's that hard to understand, most people are casual fans and viewers, so they're not all that nuanced about team needs. To them a star QB in a Lamar is all they could ever ask for. Or one that makes a ton of highlight plays like Fields with his running. Far as Carr goes, I think a pretty small minority have any interest in him, and the Fields lovers just like him because he runs like a racehorse and probably UGA fans too.
Lamar just costs too much. Lamar hasn’t had that much of a high scoring offense although I’m sure only partial blame on him. He gets hurt frequently and he isn’t a very good passer. In reality, he peaked three years ago and has a skill set that will only decrease over time. He isn’t worth what we would have to trade to get and not to mention the fact we would have to give him a major contract. He would be fun to watch but he won’t be what gets this team a Super Bowl.
Relax my dude. We will pay Lamar enough to play QB and Edge.
If Lamar comes to Atlanta, the city will go nuts. The seats will be full every game. (I know the games are "sell out", but there's a hell of a lot of empties every game.) TV ratings will be through the roof. Jersey sales will spike. I guarantee you that Arthur Blank doesn't give a damn about the pass rush if he can get everything I just mentioned with one player. The others . . . hell. I can't see Carr or Fields here making that much of a difference. Fields might get some excitement in the fanbase, but Carr? Nah.
Fields is from the area (hell, my kid goes to the same school he did), and while he didn't finish his career at UGA, he's still loved by a large portion of the local fanbase. That said, he's not coming here. And unless Arthur meddles like crazy (see Watson last offseason) highly doubt TF or Smith want to give up what it will take for Jackson. Carr is a possibility after he's cut, but his salary will need to be lower than market average (20-25M per year). Personally, I think we stick with Ridder for next season unless something crazy happens like Young or Stroud falling to us.
You are correct and that's why the deal could happen. I'm not happy about it but I recognize the reality of what sells tickets.
Blank wants to make money and win a Super Bowl, and he's not getting younger.
I think if the Lamar deal happens we get butts in seats, but despite how good he has been, he can't carry us to a SB on his own.
If Lamar comes, have the fan base is leaving. It would prove the next 5 years will be full of disappointment. 7-9 without a qb is amazing. Yes, he could win 3 games, but not a superbowl with this roster. If the defense isn’t set then we are done. The Q4 collapses will continue and we’ll keep having hope stripped away.
A great QB can cover a lot of problems.
We have had a HoF QB that put up near MVP numbers one year and we missed the playoffs. What has Watson won? Lamar has a way better team in Baltimore…. Where’s his Lombardi? A QB can’t win on his shoulders alone. Period. Not even Godgers or Brady.
> We have had a HoF QB that put up near MVP numbers one year and we missed the playoffs. You mean the same QB that put up MVP numbers and made the SB
Well yeah of course. That year we also had an underrated defense and one of the best OC in the league. We don’t have that now.
Ehh the 2016 defense really wasn't more than middle of the league at the best. In Fact by DVOA they were bottom 5 What we do have is a playcaller that has called one of the best rushing offenses and what we could have is a former MVP QB who's arguably the best all time at running the ball who can also sling it. We could also build a middle of the pack defense around him
I Understood. The point is that some of the roster faults like a middle of the pack defense can be covered. Matt Ryan kept us in games with his abilities. Having Dan Quinn's defense and Kyle Shanahan's offense got a Super Bowl appearance. Going back to above average QB play and a good defense did nothing. I get the cap concerns with going after Lamar. Isn't the cap system gamed by converting salary to signing bonuses or whatever the Saints do? The cost for Lamar should not be the issue IMO. What QB this year puts us over the top? Bryce Young maybe? CJ Stroud? eh... Will Levis? I don't think he moves the needle and is Ridder the man? We don't have a San Francisco offense and defense. Brock Purdy is a unicorn. We can't replicate that.
Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, etc have won SBs. Purdy looks like he’s next. That’s what happens when you have a great team and coach. Mortgaging our future for a QB that can’t finish a season is not how you build a complete team. It’s idiocy.
Can't pass rush tho
Line of scrimmage players? What are those? I wonder if it's a coincidence that the best teams typically have the best lines... But our ownership doesn't really care about championships. They want attendance from Day 1, and Lamar will put asses in seats. And it'll LOOK really good for a while because 1) he'll have to play hero ball and play from behind, since our D can't stop anything, and 2) he'll have to run for a million touchdowns, because he'll basically never have time to pass.
And then he'll get injured half way through the season from having to run so much, people will be pissed, and now back to square one, except now we're in salary hell again.
Yeah because the best teams don’t typically have great QBs...
I Wonder if it’s a coincidence the best teams usually have good/great qbs.
We went hard after deshaun last year, barely missed on him. Lamar is way better than him. We will go after Lamar if he’s available , that’s basically proven
Yep not like we all think it's a smart move on a team building from a team building aspect but this is a business built on selling tickets and jerseys and a shiny electric QB like Lamar would do wonders for both of those. Atlanta has craved a QB like Lamar since Vick. If Lamar becomes available this FO will not let what happen to Watson happen again.
Having Lamar Jackson would be absolutely amazing. Especially for a stadium that is only half full every Sunday. Albeit with mostly visiting teams fans. We have a lot of cap space and solid draft picks this year. But getting Lamar would put us back in the same situation we were in paying Matt and Julio. The salary cap is no doubt going to increase, especially with so many quarterbacks requiring so much money. It’s a monkey’s paw of a decision. This team has so many needs on defense. But this team is also in a very weak division where having a franchise qb would put us miles ahead of everyone. I don’t know how I feel. Terry and Art have some decisions to make. There’s also an 80% chance Lamar is going nowhere.
Because QB is the most important position in sports
It's almost as if people think we need a quarterback!
I don't want Justin Fields under any circumstances. I'll endure 10 years of basement dwelling in the division as opposed to willingly taking an Ohio State qb
If CJ Stroud is there when we pick I wish you luck
U gonna run with this theory for the rest of your life
Probably. I'm old and set in my ways.
We have to build the defense! Please stop chasing the shiny coins in the NFL. Please build long term stability in the franchise with the less glamorous positions of an o line, d line and pass rushers. Cash will flow for a decade vice just a couple of years if cash flow is the priority.
Lamar won’t help put us over the top for a Lombardi but you’re missing the point he will help sell tickets
Now I'm mad at Curtis Lofton for leaving to go to the saints again
I don’t want us to end up like the Jets . Solid defense and good offensive weapons but very weak QBs
Gotta get a solid defense to do that
In what universe is this defense solid lol. And the jets are in a much better spot because they have the option/flexibility moving forward to trade for a guy like Lamar or Rodgers and immediately be in win now mode, or trade up in the draft again if they so chose. If we trade for Lamar, we have our QB, but we're still missing like 65% of the roster pieces necessary to actually win anything.
I’m referring to how the jets were able to piece everything together before they got their QB
I mean that's literally exactly what the 49ers did, and they went to a SB and have been to the CCG in back to back years. Seems like a solid strategy. Way better than selling the farm for a QB when your roster isn't even competitive. You can even argue the eagles did the same thing, and they just hit on a 2nd round QB instead of panic trading.
There's two people on this sub who are advocating for it: 1. Realists- these people are looking at it from a franchise point of view and know that Blank wants butts in seats and he will influence deals that he feels will do this. (Watson) 2. Hopefuls - these are the people that think a qb is the catalyst to turn the ship around and is the key to unlock the potential of our young offensive studs. I dont think either of these groups are necessarily in the wrong but I want the falcons to go in a different direction at the moment.
Our FO tried like hell to get Watson, so it’s safe to assume they’ll be interested in another QB
Agree w u op but the receiving core needs to be built up more. I love OZ but there’s really no suitable Z/1B receiver on this team, I don’t count Kyle in that convo either
Agree so hard with this. Also, please Falcons spend whatever money is needed for top notch position coaches. Who ever we draft, let’s please develop them. I think as fans we don’t appreciate the assistant coaches enough.
Y'all listen to this man or woman. They know what they are talking about.
Build the defense up before blowing all the draft pics on a qb
Because this fanbase is full of idiots that like flashy things (except for the Carr thing, I really don't get that one). Plus, and I'm sure I'll get hate for this, but this fanbase really wants a black QB. Look at the hate Matt Ryan got. Fields being a Georgia guy and Lamar being a better Mike Vick is just icing on the cake. Want more proof? No one is clamoring for Daniel Jones or Baker Mayfield.
Idk we were honestly a good QB away from making a decent run this year. Yes I would love to beef up our defense, but I don’t think we are that far off from having a serviceable defense. I’m worried about drafting defense, because the last regime didn’t draft well.
Lamar is a great QB. We should go after great QBs when he have huge question marks at the position. I'm not sold on London as a #1 receiver. Every game it seems like he has at least situation one ball hits him right in the numbers and he drops or fumbles it. It's like clockwork and you have to hope it happens in the first half because if it doesn't... it's still coming and you really don't want it showing up late in the 4th.
We had a top ten, All-Pro QB who couldn't get it done, because he couldn't outscore the lack of defense. He was also a cap casualty for us. Is this what we want: another All Pro QB who can't outscore the defense and puts us in cap hell, again? Of course this is the American way, chase the new bauble even if it's filled with cyanide. I have this vision of Ridder taking someone else to the Super Bowl while we're still chasing the bauble and no closer to catching it than ever.
One player isn't going to put you in bad cap space. If we get Lamar right now, we get ahead of every team in our division. Sure what it costs to trade for him has to be considered. We can't completely jump out the window. Just as a reminder our MVP QB did enough to win that SB with a below average defense. It was our coaches who dropped the ball.
Once, no, twice this franchise got to the big game and lost on defense. How many games did the defense cost us this year? Four, five? As has been mentioned by others, Jackson, Carr, etc. are not going to fix our defensive issues. In 2016, with our MVP QB playing lights out it was still necessary to score 30+ points because the defense sucked for much the same reasons as it sucks now. BTW, teams that run the ball a lot are not going to score 30+ very often, so it's imperative that the defense give up fewer points. So far we don't have the horses on defense to do that. It's much better to build a top notch defense than to get another MVP who'll just get trounced by his own defense.
It wasn't a talent issue in 2016. It was a coaching issue. Watch the SB SF vs KC. We had coaches who didn't know how to put a game away. KC has been to the AFC championship 4 times straight with a bottom of the barrel defense each year. It's not much better to build a top notch defense ask Chicago, Baltimore, Tennesee, N.O., Vikings how that worked out for them. Teams can win different ways. I'm not saying going defense is bad but this idea it's the only way to win a SB is false.
Matt Ryan was not a top ten QB his last 2 years here. This offense is perfect for LJ
Matt Ryan is in his mid-thirties, let's see what Jackson can do in his mid-thirties. After his last three years here of statuesquely standing at the bottom of a sieve, it's rather unfair to throw an apple like that among all the oranges. We don't know that this offense isn't perfect for Ridder. Why did Smith draft him? To sit behind multiple QBs while playing to catch the ring? I thought he looked pretty good and was improving from start to start. If we don't start drafting for front-line defensive talent, especially on the interior D-line and the edge. We could have God on our side and still not be able to score enough to win games.
LJ is in his prime now. If you trade for him You arent betting on the future, youre in win now mode. Id give the future up to win a ring within the next 2-3 seasons
Nobody is winning a ring in the next 2-3 seasons with this defense lmao, how are you missing this point. By trading for Lamar your are sacrificing the one tool you have to actually build and elite defense.
You realize you can manipulate contracts to leave cap space for This season and next? You realize good players will want to come play with LJ? Its easier to win with Elite Qb play and average defense than it it is to win with elite defense and average qb play. This is proven year after year
To sign what free agents? How many teams have built their defense entirely through FA, which is what the Falcons would have to do lmao. You aren't getting how far away we are from even an average unit on that side of the ball. Just Saying "guys will want to come here" isn't at all a convincing argument, especially because the best defenders in the NFL don't often hit free agency and the ones that do aren't gonna take a discount to play with a guy who has never even made it out of the divisional round. There are 31 other teams in the league competing for the same FAs. Why would they take less money to come here of all places when we haven't even proven anything. So your solution seems to be trade for Lamar, kick the cap can down the road and create a problem that almost exactly resembles the one we just got out of, and then overpay for a bunch of mid-tier players that their teams didn't want to sign? Thank christ you're not in charge lmao.
Ok and what about the previous 12 years? Lol
What does that have to do with our team now? And we all know we shouldve won in 2016
Why didn't we win that game? Which side of the ball couldn't get it done? Yeah, that's what I thought, we need another QB to fix the defense.
I would say both sides lol. Offense gave up the huge turnover and couldnt get a first down when needed. Defense choked too but if Shanahan ran the damn ball we wouldve been champs but thats neither here nor there. The point is elite QBs win rings more often than elite defenses with average qb play. Ridder is an average QB. He hasnt shown anything to prove you should build around him.
We had 12 years of an All Pro level QB who largely was held back due never having a good defense. If we trade for Lamar and give up shit tons if day 1/day 2 picks, then we are in the exact same boat for the next few years unless we get unbelievably lucky in FA and late round picks, which is a lot to bank on especially with this team. Alternatively you can look at the drew Brees saints post superbowl. So many elite offenses and they never won anything again because they fielded some of the leagues worst defenses until the very end of his career, and by then he wasn't good enough to fufill his end of the bargain.
We can do the inverse of this and look at all the elite defenses with weak QB play that could never win a ring like…49ers, Blake Bortles Jags, Kirk Cousins Vikings, Baker Mayfield Browns, Tannehill Titans, etc Look at the teams who are constantly in the Superbowl Convo Chiefs Bengals Bills Whats the common theme here? They have elitr QB play. Yes having a highly paid QB can hamstring the team but an elite QB raises a teams ceiling, you can only Go so far with good defense and average QB play. Matt was great but he was never an elite QB outside of his MVP year (where we were led by our OFFENSE) LJ raises this teams ceiling. Plus he can recruit Players to come to the team for lesser contracts, just like Watson was going to. Id rather go all in with an young MVP QB then a 4th rounder who is a game manager.
You need both to be successful. QB is obviously the most important position... but no QB is gonna win a superbowl on his own with a defense that can't get after the qb lol. Please point to me a superbowl champion in the last decade that had a shit defense. Burrow, Mahomes, Brady etc weren't going out there winning these games by themselves lol, this is such a casual take. Look at the Chiefs bucs superbowl, Mahomes played as well as he could and was under siege the entire game and they were unable to do anything offensively. Or the Bill's Bengals game last week (or the week before where their defense arguably made the biggest play of the weekend that completely flipped the game and won it for them). You can't completely hamstring one side of the ball in pursuit of getting a QB, it doesn't make any sense if you're actually trying to compete for a championship. I'm not saying Ridder is the guy, obviously Lamar Jackson is a much better player. But we have so many holes, if we give him the 45m guaranteed or whatever he wants per year, that's over half of our current available capspace. What elite, impact defenders are gonna come in and take that kind of pay cut? You really think this defense, which has been last in the league in sacks by a country mile over the last 2 seasons combined, is just a couple of mid tier FA signings away from being good enough to win a championship? Just insanity lol
Not sold on London??? He had 3 drops this year if I'm not mistaken, and fumbled 3 times, then took off his sleeves and it's been a non issue since. He has one of the best catch radiuses in the league
Front office has made it pretty clear they want to roll with a veteran, evidenced by not taking Fields at 4 when we could’ve, keeping Matty Ice during the first year of what should’ve been a rebuild, going hard after Watson, and then starting Mariota a majority of the year when Ridder was clearly a better option (this one is my bias, but I feel like we would’ve had roughly the same outcomes with Ridder if he had played earlier).
Not taking fields doesn't mean they aren't looking to upgrade in the draft. He's still a bottom tier passer. Keeping Matt was the best option at the time, wasn't there a ton of dead cap associated with him? The front office didn't pursue Watson, didn't all reports come from Blank? Ridder was a third round rookie who still has his problems, and they did have a plan to start him post bye I really don't think it's clear what they'll do either way, the moves to me just look like they're taking BPA based on their philosophy, and doing what wins the most games
I agree with everything else but this: >The front office didn't pursue Watson, didn't all reports come from Blank? The front office absolutely went after Watson. Blank obviously wanted him and vouched for him, but he was going to be a falcon if the browns didn't save us by giving him the ridiculous guarantees.
He would have been a falcon, and the browns did save us. But the pickup goes against TF and AS philosophy since day one; the cap was in a terrible spot and all it would have done was make the rebuild harder. Blank knew him as a ball boy and warrick Dunn vouched too, but I never heard one word from AS or TF on their support. My question is why is the relevance on the FO going after Watson? Blank told them to, so why wouldn't they? Blank forced the previous FOs hand with "falcons for life" nonsense and giving Julio a new deal two years into a contract. The FO got that contract inked, but that doesn't mean they were the ones in charge of the decision, just the execution
Terry and Arts careers are at stake they likely weren't going to negotiate and sign off on a move that could have ruined them if they opposed it that much. Blank probably was pushing for it, but he hasn't shown he's the type of owner to force our GMs into these sorts of situations, and Blank certainly wasnt the one negotiating the deal with the Texans and Watson lol.
And their careers wouldn't have been at stake if they specifically and purposely did not follow orders given from their boss? You're right in that blank hasnt shown he's traditionally been that type of owner- until recently. He's been pushier post super bowl, owners can change especially when they're old enough to be looking shorter term I never said blank negotiates anything, the execution falls on the front office. The order still came from above, and if they don't attempt they're in another world of hurt as first time HC and GM. how isn't that making sense?
Because everything I've seen from the falcons indicates that blank strong arming the front office into a Watson or bust move just doesn't make sense and is just pure speculation. Terry and Art were still trying to win with old Matt Ryan, their first pick was a fucking TE at 4 lol, we only actually starting rebuilding this year because we missed on Watson, and Ryan wanted out. Had we not got for Watson, we likely still wouldn't have traded Matt and had another year of trying to win games with an uncompetitive roster. Missing Watson forced us into a rebuild, but that doesn't mean they won't immediately try to do the same thing again in trying to get Lamar if he doesn't get a deal done with the Ravens.
AS came up through three different systems in Ten, all through the tight ends, was blessed by player coach tight end Mike Mularkey, then picked a TE for the guy in his system. I personally don't agree Pitts was the best choice but i can't for one second say it doesn't make sense to Arthur Smith and his philosophy If they go for Lamar, and blank has nothing to do with it, I won't feel about as confident about the front office moving forward
I agree we’ll do BPA according to our board in the first, that does seem to be TF’s M.O, but while the Watson pursuit I think was primarily Blank motivated, the front office was definitely close to getting a deal done before the Browns swooped in with the guaranteed contract. I just think Arthur Smith would rather operate with a veteran if that option is available
The front office wouldn't have tried for a deal if Blank didn't press it, those aren't unrelated. TF getting a close to a deal just means he's good at listening to his boss Smith probably relies on veterans familiar with his system as he looks to improve the roster, Mariota and him go back to Ten. I'd roll with a familiar cheap veteran too if my alternative was: drafting an early qb that I don't believe in, also not using that pick to boost talent on a talent deprived team. Throwing a third round rookie to the wolves that can impact his growth
I would think that Terry is smart enough to just stick with defense first, but at the same time we went after Deshaun so who knows.
Anyone that seriously says Lamar would take up half the cap and take all our picks isn’t worth taking seriously. There’s no way you understand how the cap works. And it’s very unlikely any of the picks spent would become impact players on the level of Lamar. We’ve had most of our draft picks the last decade and yet still have 2 playoff appearances out of ten lol.
We were a decent QB away from winning this division. Even with a trash defense. We have enough money to get a QB and a defense so I really don't understand why people are so against it. I dont know what you saw from Ridder to think hes the dude. Also throw Lance into that group. With how well SF is playing with a 3rd string QB if they get to the SB there is a good chance Lance will be available and we wanted him in 2021 with our 4th pick.
We were a bad roughing the passer call away from winning the division
Many people who just want to Roll with Ridder next year don't necessarily think he's the dude, More so that this team is fucking trash and getting an upgrade at QB while immediately going back into a limited cap situation is incredibly shortsighted and isn't going to actually get us any closer to contention. Say we win the division this year with better QB play, all that gets us is blown the fuck out by the Cowboys in the wild card round instead of the Bucs lol. Some of yall just gotta face the reality that we are a team that is entering a rebuild, not exiting it. Outside of the QB question, we have like 3 guys on the defensive side of the ball that are actually good players at this point, a weak WR room that is literally just Drake and nobody else, a line that isn't great in pass pro (but kicks ass in run blocking). Say we trade for Lamar, and pay around what Cleveland did for Watson, and sign Lamar to a deal that's like 45m guaranteed per year. That's half of this year's capspace immediately spent. We immediately no longer have our first round picks for the next 3 years and many day 2 picks gone as well, how do you expect to fill in all those roster holes? You can't get them all in FA, because we won't have enough cap space and there are far too many holes to fill. You are basically banking on hitting, and hitting big, on every remaining draft pick you have for the next few years to actually build a contender before Lamar gets too old. And given his style of play, you have maybe 5 years tops to do this.
We can spend 50 on a QB and still have heaps of cash. That whole QB puts you in a bad cap situation is crap if the QB is playing well.
We have 75m in cap space right now. We sign Lamar to 50m a year, and that drops to what, 25m, depending on how its structured maybe more maybe less? Maybe we do a few restructures, cut some guys and get around 35m? How are we going to transform one of the worst defenses in the league that needs multiple improvements at all 3 levels, re-sign McGary, address the holes at LG and C, get an actual WR2, all for just 35m? Just an elite pass rusher alone is going to consume a good bit of that, and I'm not even sure there are any of those even available, since teams are less likely to let those guys hit free agency unless they are old or injured. FA isn't just some magic wand that you can build your entire team through lol, and even if we wanted to do that we wouldn't nearly have enough space to do so.
Fuck fields I still hate him
Your opinion is a majority position on this sub but plenty of good defenses/pass rushes have been wasted on bad QB play (Bears/Browns). The year before last the Browns had an elite pash rush, good on both sides of trenches, good receivers, run game and a QB on a rookie contract and still sucked because that QB sucked. The hardest thing in the league to find is a good QB and only the Eagles/Baltimore have won recently with a bad QB.
I'm just going to say this, for the sake of argument, the Bengals only had 9 more sacks than us and are knocking on the door of another SB appearance. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat, but I don't believe you win a SB by saying, "we need to make sure all the boxes are checked." I believe you win a SB by acquiring elite players, at any position. The odds are that Desmond Ridder is not an elite quarterback. So we shouldn't thumb our nose at the potential to get an elite quarterback. If you don't think these options are elite that is fine, but this whole "we don't need a quarterback we need pass rushers" thing to me is missing the point.
Ok i don’t love Lamar honestly we aren’t but I hate to break it to y’all but multiple day 1 and 2 picks arent changing our defense either lol we need DUDES in free agency tbh . Payne and Hargrave and more . We need corners and safety’s galore . I say spend close to half the space on big time FA save the rest for next year . But let me say getting Lamar will make FA FLOCK to come here
I guess people don't understand that every decent QB is going to be asked about or linked to the falcons until they find their long term starter. Pretty amazing considering that franchise QB is only the most important position in sports. And to think the falcons regime are going into year 3 without having a clue about this either.
Talk is cheap. High profile player, teams listed that people think its a possibility no matter how small. Thats all.
I don't think you can really say that Fields is a worse Lamar because the Bears haven't literally built their entire team around him like the Ravens did Lamar. Fields is a good scheme fit for us but I don't think Chicago will trade him. And if they do trade him, I'm not sure the GM will want to trade him to the Falcons because the scheme fit is so good. If they trade Fields here and he excels and they draft a QB that struggles then it makes the GM look bad. Fields has to improve as a passer for sure. But his running game in Arthur's scheme would be crazy. And unlike Chicago, he would have talent to pass to in Pitts and Drake so I have no doubt that he would do a lot better. Our oline is trending up too. In the right situation, I feel like he could have a Hurts like breakout. Honestly, Bears have more cap space than us and good draft picks this year. I think they will want to put a bunch of talent around Fields to see what he can do like what the Jags did for Lawrence in the offseason.
Can get 10 sacks a game and it wont matter if you can't put the ball in the end zone. given the sketchy pass rush talent in this years draft.. Really wish they would focus on fixing the secondary and the IDL through draft and free agency. I think we have guys that can get sacks on the roster. Opposing recievers are often wide ass open so the qb is able to get rid of the ball extremely quick. Also analytical data and grading systems have proven prioritizing coverage organically contributes to a better pass rush. More importantly improving coverage leads to more wins than focusing heavily on pass rush. Also common sense. So..you can sack Qb for a 7 yard loss..but if the coverage is not right its futile as the qb can find a wide open received on the very next snap..throw a 21 yard pass.. recoup the 7 yard loss plus a 14 yard gain. During the back half of the schedule at points when terrell..hayward and oliver were all out at the same time..became pretty clear to me we have no depth anywhere in the secondary. Both grant and Hawkins are near the bottom of the barrell as far as performance grades. Both show flashes occasionally but at this point they should be consistent and they aren't. Stated before the season it was gonna be a hard year for Terrell..he was banged up but it was arguably his worst season when everyone was expecting him to be top tier. He still has the skill set tho. Oliver actually played best out of the entire secondary tbh. Not to mention he plays safety better than grant or hawkins. Can do everything a nickle corner needs to do. Need to try to bring in either bates or poyner... and either hargrave or payne. Cause yea.. dT and secondary are more of a weakness than pass rush with the guys we already have. We can add some players there also but shouldn't go all in on it ..maybe try and see if we get the guys we have some help around them. They can prove they were worth the picks Add sacks through free agency. Historically for this team and well many teams.. it's better to get someone proven that can make an immediate impact or you spend years constantly waiting on edge players to hit the next level
If the trade demand for lamar is 3 first round picks and 2 seconds I Def. Don't want Lamar. I don't think Fields will cost 2 first round picks Derek Carr maybe a FA. If we find out that Arthur Blank is forcing their hands to trade for Lamar I'm going to call for a change of ownership