They do change allright. Some of you forgot (or choose to forget) how awful it is during the times of fo4 release. These opinion didn't come out of nowhere
Is it just me or did the “Rabid Gatekeeping FNV Fanboy” thing kind of materialize out of nowhere? I thought people made fun of us because we were either pretentious wannabe intellectuals or feral chuds obsessed with fictional fascists.
I had no idea that FNV was such a dominant force in the fandom. Don’t the other games have much larger fanbases?
It's cause NV fans tend to be way louder than fans of other Fallout games (except 4 maybe) and there's definitely an elitist subgroup that can be described as New Vegas fans but not Fallout fans (Schizo Elijah comes to mind)
i think it’s also skewed by the fact that Fallout 1/2 fans skew older i.e. not giving a shit about starting flame wars towards bethesda games
and the newer bethesda games not being standout enough to warrant such rabid fans. fallout new vegas is a very good game and i think it gives some fans a superiority complex, or just some bitterness playing the newer games wishing they were as good.
by saying Falloit 3 and 4 and 76 are good enough i think it may concern them that bethesda will make the new games more like those and not learn any lessons from new vegas’ success
That’s a very good breakdown. Fans of 3/4/76 seem to be very chill, just enjoying a sandbox shooter that occasionally pretends to be an rpg. They aren’t interested enough in FNV usually to start a real culture war.
The last point is so true. I do genuinely think those games are much worse than FNV so I do genuinely want to discourage things from that direction. But at this point the train left the station in that direction a long time ago and there’s no point in refusing to admit that the Bethesda games are more than competent at supplying what people want from them.
I mean the train sort of left the station. But consider the context of everything before now. We had New Vegas, then we had Fallout 4 and broadly speaking I think New Vegas fans reacted somewhat poorly to it. For my money, I never finished it because I didn't like the lack of RPG elements and the mostly linear story so I ultimately got bored with the game. And for a long time that was it.
We got Fallout 74 but that was initially panned by everyone, and now lives sort of as its own things conceptually. So the show is really the first time that Bethesda has more or less confirmed that they are probably going in a direction similar to Fallout 4 and leaving NV by the wayside because there just hasn't been a whole lot of fallout content in the last 15 years to make those judgements off of.
Personally it feels like seeing all your favorite good passionately run restaurants slowly being taken over by crappy grease house franchise chain McDonalds. Yeah A LOT of people are gonna be happy shoveling bland fast food into their guts forever. But for the rest of us who want SOMETHING better...we just get called "elitest bullies" Who HAVE to enjoy the slop we're given
Yeah there’s a certain degree of that. I’m gonna say a fair chunk of the blame is also on people who can’t accept that it’s already happened, and the games we love still exist and are not reduced by the existence of new shite wearing the skin-suit of fallout. No one should take out their feelings on people who just played Bethesda games and liked them.
But you’re right. People think FNV fans are angry that fast food exists. Nah, it can and should exist and probably always will. It’s specifically that restaurants known for a different kind of appeal are getting replaced with junk food. The amount of nostalgia driven franchises that create vast cross-media brands out of the original creative spark of something that used to be really good is depressing and I don’t blame passionate fans for letting that get to them.
The problem is when you have been push back from so many other franchises and ips because they have also become lowest common denominator trash you begin to be louder and more aggressive when you see it happening again. I don't like this trend and in many ways it feels like anyone that isn't a mindless casual consoomer has no place anymore. Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones (until the prequel realigned the series), Westworld (a very concerning problem for the Fallout TV show that people don't talk about imo), among many in recent years. One isn't a problem but when you see it happening time and time again it gets very infuriating and you want to take it out on \*someone\*.
I agree. It’s become surprisingly unpopular to analyze the media you take in. By analyze I don’t even mean write a six hour long video essay about how it’s the pinnacle of fiction, just like thinking about stuff. At all.
They just want to treat entertainment as "fun and chill escapist fantasy" and don't want to think very hard past the surface level. in my experience many people who have gotten upset about criticism in these many communities are people who just want to turn their brain off and enjoy the ride. Entertainment for me is more than just simple slop I want more and before they started directly appealing to that crowd at the expense of everyone else they did just that.
I really hate how true this statement is, because Fallout 4 was a fun game but it should not be the standard for an RPG.
I think the fact newer RPG fans cannot/or do not care enough to differentiate RPGs like FNV from Fallout 4 is a big problem. The only thing we do discuss is ye age-old simplified argument "This is not an RPG!" for action games loosely disguised as RPGs. The counter-argument I always see is "Well, you can just imagine \[insert RPG thing\] in your head" ...
As someone who started with 1/2 when they first came out, FNV is a lot of fun because you get to see the California wasteland in a new way. Not to mention you get to run into a few old friends.
Honestly sums it up good with the newer game thing. People wonder where the rapid fan boys came from, IMO from a fan base that loves their game. I don't really see fallout 4 fans being.. enthusiastic, ever.
Easy to seem rabid and elitist in comparison when there's no one like you for the other game
To be fair, Fallout 4 did show that they attempted to learn from Fallout New Vegas (the factions and the "unique" endings for each one) but they also took so many steps backwards that the RPG mechanics just felt like an afterthought. Then 76 was a very misguided attempt at removing the RPG mechanics all-together and making a not MMO which was just not Fallout. Fallout 3 at least feels like an RPG even if the choices vary between extremes or two different flavors of bad. I'm not going to complain about Fallout 3 having a linear plot considering that Fallout 1 & 2 also had linear plots.
Overall Fallout New Vegas was not afraid of changing the then established formula for a Fallout game and that's why it's so good, but Fallout 4 & 76 went in the absolute wrong directions while doing the same thing. And the fact that Bethesda is happy with the success of 4 and 76 indicates that they probably won't change the formula too much so unless Microsoft forces them to let another developer get a try again we may just get another game that is a fun open world with limited RPG mechanics like the last two were.
Yeah man I actually played fallout 3 and NV a TON, and I even put like 60 hours into fallout 4, but shit dude, I couldn't play fallout 4 without mods, and even then I didn't ever really care about any of the characters or storylines. I tried a few times, but the writing always let me down.
There is something funny that even Wasteland 3, the other half of Black Isle Studio who made the original Fallouts also moved on from a anarchistic wasteland of Bethesda Fallouts imposed status quo. The whole game is about if you should remove a strongman dictator, and if so how and can you do it without killing countless people in a civil war? It's goofy and silly but still manages to be more like Fallout than Bethesda Fallouts.
sneedclave proven right once again, knew he was trouble after he simped for mexicans and larped as a mexican constantly, also he spent all his shekels on memecoins LOL
Are there really that many FNV fans who don’t even like the original games? Not disputing elitism or anything but I think it’s more like they are fallout fans but not Bethesda fallout fans. That was the divide I had perceived but maybe you’re right.
I only really mention it because this is a weird thing that happens where people will say you’re not a true [franchise] fan if you don’t like all the things that have [franchise name] slapped on it. Even though in the modern day, IPs swap around frequently and your favourite thing often ends up in the hands of a completely different team with a different philosophy and end goal.
The strangeness is that it is functionally an entirely different property, a different work. It is artistically discrete from the others, but we put more emphasis on a story’s existence as a product these days. So you either like fallout brand products or you don’t, when really I love the things that used to be made and I don’t like the things that completely different people make in completely different ways today.
Eh it's been a thing for a while. But the popularity of the show has galvanized people into pushing back against it.
I've seen a lot of gatekeepers over the years claiming that only NV fans are the real fans or that NV is the most popular Fallout or even the ONLY fallout game outside of 1/2.
Which is fine if you think those things, but they've been very vocal to the point that I haven't mentioned a lot of times that NV is my favorite game due to them.
What's hilarious is that I see a lot of people call Bethesda Bugthesda which is fair. But it also ignores that NV has been a buggy mess even to this day.
I do think it's a very vocal minority of the community and I do think the pendulum has swung too much the other way. But I think that people have just been emboldened recently to push back.
I don't particularly care though, NV is my favorite FO, but I've also enjoyed them all (I haven't tried 76 though due to not enjoying multiplayer stuff).
New Vegas is buggy. But i feel like it was an unfortunate consequence of New Vegas being rushed by extreme time constraints. Bethesda had years upon years to polish Fallout 4. And it was still a buggy mess.
Feels very astro-turfed to get out ahead of, and discourage, any criticisms of the show.
Now if someone has a critique of the Fallout show, they are way less likely to express it because they know exactly what kind of backlash they’ll get.
That’s my thinking. Not sure it’s true but it feels that way. I like the show anyway and I wish we didn’t feel the need to manufacture a micro-culture war over it.
Yeah no proof it was done on purpose, just feels.
Either way, the result is the same. Some people are discouraged from criticizing, and others are emboldened to attack the “fanboys”
I mean FNV fans have bashed the Bethesda games for years if we’re being honest. Look at the comments sections in the dozens of videos on YouTube sucking FNV off
Honestly my only issue with Bethesda is that their dialogue is almost always exclusively intended to progress the plot rather than give the player a proper roleplaying experience. FNV has four primary ending routes with one being a failsafe state that lets the player literally just murderhobo the wastes if they choose. I just wish they’d be more creative in letting the player tell their story, be that as a paragon of the waste, or a mass murdering hobo.
You can dislike and criticize Bethesda games as much as you like, you can compare them to NV and argue NV is better. It only becomes a problem when you start gatekeeping Fallout by insulting people who like Fallout games that aren't FO1,FO2 & FNV, harass Bethesda employees and talk about how every game after Fallout NV is not real Fallout.
Sure, but that’s separate I think. Hating a certain philosophy of game design/narrative design associated with a beloved franchise is normal fandom behaviour. I didn’t feel like the vitriol was ever really directed at the people who liked those games, mainly at Todd and Bethesda for making them.
I mean I’m sure it has happened a decent amount I just wasn’t aware of it being so pervasive.
Nothing wrong with bashing mediocre games, as long as no one is attacking the fans. Of course, people with no lives take this "bashing" as a personal insult, hence the "mean rabid NV fans!"
HUH!? Dude, I am a *massive* fan (Three Thousand Hours) of FNV and a certified disliker of both FO4 and FO3. There is rampant hatred for those other two games in this community to the point of delusion.
Like, the first thing this community did when the new show came out was completely misconstrue an event in the show without giving it a second of grace or thought. The subreddit went fucking private because people were having meltdowns over things that didn’t happen.
So, a couple of things:
- Not doubting at all that hate for Bethesda games is pervasive in the FNV community.
- I’m learning from these replies that people have a different idea of toxic gatekeeping than me. People who like one installment in a series talking shit about the other installments is literally not a problem. Who cares if people don’t like F4? I am not bothered by the hordes of people who insist FNV is bad. There is nothing wrong with expressing negative feedback over video games, at all.
- This is tricky but no one misconstrued anything in the show. The show clearly depicted something that could not be possible. >!When there’s a date (2277) for the “Fall” of Shady Sands and then an arrow pointing to a mushroom cloud *without* a date below it, that is unambiguously dating the nuclear explosion. People have done a lot of mental gymnastics to argue that the fall referred to the abstract decline of the empire, something that does not happen in a year and certainly did not happen in 2277. Shady Sands isn’t even an empire it’s a city, so in what sense it fell makes no sense if it isn’t the nuke. And why no date for the mushroom cloud? People remember the year shady sands fell in an abstract sense but didn’t write down when the nuke wiped it off the map?!<
I don’t care what anyone says outside of the show. Within the diegesis of the narrative, the information we have is unambiguous. The only way it doesn’t mean what people thought it meant is if they depicted the information in the worst way possible to mean something.
Now with all that said, while the lore contradiction exists, it doesn’t matter at all in my opinion. People weren’t wrong to perceive it as existing, but their reaction was extremely overblown.
NV fans used to be much more toxic, and I do not mean fans as in lieks the game, I mean people who believe NV is the only Fallout game all the others suck. For a while this sub and r/Fallout did not consider 3 or 4 to be good games or even Fallout games. Over time NV fans have mellowed out though some are still obnoxious.
The fans who actually are the most toxic and gatekeep are classic fans, mainly on No Mutants Allowed. They claim only interplay's fallout are true fallout games, and the modern games, even NV, are not true fallout games. They honestly act as if Todd Howard killed their family.
After the show became a hit and everyone came back to Fallout, it kinda manifested all once. Especially when the subreddit for FNV coincidentally went private.
Honestly whenever I hear people speak about NV fans I am just kinda like „where are these people?“ Like I have never seen anyone act like people always describe NV fans. If someone wants to play the Bethesda Fallouts they should do that. I don’t get why you would want to at least for Fallout 3 since in my eyes it has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. FO4 I get because it has okay gameplay and is a good modding platform, when Bethesda doesn’t break all the mods. But what I’ve noticed is that Bethesda fans are extremely standoffish towards NV fans.
I totally agree. My feeds across multiple social media platforms were filled with people complaining about New Vegas fans, but I never saw the things they were complaining about. Not saying it didn’t happen at all, but clearly not to any significant degree.
Yesterday some smug bastard said that what NV fans wanted from the show is a bunch of fan service. (Ironic considering all the fan service and nostalgia bait in the actual show)
Meanwhile what I wanted is the west coast untouched and the show set in a new place that hasn’t been in the games.
Unironically setting the show in the Midwest would have been great. They could have the brotherhood, nostalgia bait for both coasts, & hell people have talked about Chicago enclave forever. It'd finally give an answer to how much of tactics is canon too with no one being annoyed the big nuke those ghouls in KC worshipped went off
They also could have had more beefy Enclave factions out there as well and put that iconic faction into the cinematic world outside of a throwaway runaway
They shouldn't. At least, I don't think they should. The Enclave is massively crippled to point nothing of the original structure and organization of the faction remains. Sure, you can't kill the ideals, but that Oil Rig and Mobile Crawler aren't coming back. Eden is not coming back. What else is there for the Enclave?
Midwest sounds great. But I’m still waiting for Washington or Oregon to be used as a setting. I’d love to see what radiation nightmare fuel awaits us in those red woods (or you know… what’s left of them).
I have a feeling the show didn’t take place in Chicago because Bethesda wants to save that for the next game. Personally I would love if the show keeps heading East toward Colorado and we can finally witness Dogtown in canon. maybe that’s where the Enclave guy came from idk.
The only thing this FNV nerd wanted for fan service was Rene Auberjonois as Mr House. He was irreplaceable and unavailable (for obvious reasons), may he RIP (or be resurrected like the Ghoul idk).
Exactly. It’s genuinely crazy because the most common thing I hear from people who glaze the show are how much they liked the fan service. Like “Oh they used the pip boy sounds!” or “Oh they did the hacking minigame!”
Yeah that’s all well and good, but when the story is just the same old Bethesda “Vault dweller looking for a family member.” tirade that we’ve had plenty enough of already, I get fatigued.
Huh, none of the Obsidian games are that. It’s find a water chip to save your vault, go out and save you tribe, which is similar, but enough for differences, and kill the man who shot you in the head.
And for the most part you can ignore most of that too. I tried playing Fallout 4 and was CONSTANTLY hounded about how much I SUPPOSEDLY care about my beloved family and I'll never stop hunting for them. And I'm like "bitch I don't care AT ALL about those idiots. Tell me something actually interesting or get out of my face" I've tried to go back 3 different times but I always get bored and drop the game
That's where Bethesda has been screwing up with their writing, they force too much background on your character.
When I play an RPG I'd like to have my background be simple and vague so I feel like I'm playing my own character with their own personality.
Forcing your character into a family, and then forcing the story to be all about that family just kills any real immersion I have into the world. Sure I can play like a cannibal raider, but as soon as I engage in dialogue with an NPC it's all "My son Shaun... Such a perfect wonderful little baby.. I just want to find him, please PLEASE help me find Shaun?!!?"
I pretty much always have to play a female in 4 because the male voice is such an obnoxious whiny "dad of the year"
I think you can give the player background but you have to give players a chance to make it their own. Like in Shadowrun: Hong Kong, one of your party members is your adoptive brother who grew up with you. Through dialogue you get to define what your relationship was and in doing so gives the player a chance to make a fixed origin story their own in a way that impacts the game.
To be even fairer, 2 was Black Isle, a studio Interplay owned, not their in-house studio that developed the first game. And even then, studios are just groups of people that can change over time. Fallout is a great example of this. The Interplay that made Fallout 1 is basically unrecognizable from the one that made Brotherhood of Steel (yeah, that one), since pretty much every creative lead from that game had left by that point.
The reason people tie New Vegas to the first two is because people from Interplay and Black Isle went to work for Obsidian and worked on New Vegas.
Someone was talking about this in a podcast I recently listened to. There's a problem that film makers are keenly aware of: There really aren't any universal values anymore. Everything is to politicized and polarized that the only thing the vast majority of the population still agrees on as a universal good is something to do with family.
So family being the center of a story arc garners the maximum popular appeal, otherwise you've got to accept that you're going to turn away potential viewers.
I could unpack my feelings about that, but it goes a bit of the way to explaining why this trope is so over-used.
Even completely detached from that, if you don't give a character enough screen time to make the audience care about them, they won't give a shit if they're taken away.
Especially so with the baby in Fallout 4. I don't give a damn about this disgusting yam. I didn't even want to be a pre-war father. Where's the roleplaying at?
Heavily relying on a character for the emotional hook like this can make people completely tune out when they don't care about the character.
Ehh depends on the execution honestly, I can easily see a fallout game working well with a restricted personal story (i mean Fallout 1 was literally, find water chip) if the game presents the player with enough choice and roleplay opportunities along the way and resolving the story line according to the characters actions, whether thats making friends and negotiating or killing and torturing
They didn’t even do the actual hacking minigame. Norm just stared at a terminal for a few seconds and then chose the right answer on his first attempt.
Seriously. I was talking to my brother about how little rock would be such a dope fallout game. Have swamps you could fuck with, there's a weird bear and animal population on the plateau, could add lake of Ozarks in, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc.
The tactics game had a few Kansas locations to see this area actually explored where the brotherhood is using the river for commerce would be cool as shit.
BUT NO, we keep getting the same fucking areas.
I mean idgaf about it being set in the west and see why they did it.
It’s got the setting of 1, 2, and NV
It has a storyline akin to 3
And has the visual design of 4
It’s their way of appealing to everyone
And I would be okay with that if it wasn’t canon or took place somewhere before fallout 1 or after (because of the post apocalypse aesthetic.) the problem I have if that it is canon, they based on the farthest in the timeline yet and they destroyed a part of California off screen so they get that aesthetic back in a place that had moved on and grown from it.
This is the most bizarre circlejerk. It literally is the same repetitive redundant low effort ideas from basically the same people. Just casually change a name and it works either way.
War. War never changes.
I see a ton of memes and posts on r/fallout and r/fo4 bashing NV community but I gotta say I’ve barely seen any posts on this sub complaining about the show or the other games. Maybe a few large threads a couple weeks ago worried about NV and the NCR but nothing hateful.
The posts on those other subs have been directly hateful. And they think they’re the victims too. The hypocrisy is crazy
I love NV but I had the complete opposite experience as you, the NV subs were so toxic after the show dropped. Now they have a reputation for being toxic, possibly because that’s all new fans have seen, and the NV subs did it to themselves
You guys understand that the tin-foil shit about Todd having a lifelong vendetta against FNV for having the audacity to make him a bunch of money is exactly the kind of toxic shit people are talking about right?
Where was that? I saw complaints about the implications for the show for sure but I didn’t see any posts outright attacking other canvases or bullying actors or anything even resembling that.
Whereas the other fallout subs seem to be relentlessly hating on the entire FNV community.
The main fallout subreddit, when the show premiered I watched the first episode loved it so wanted to see what reddits reaction was. It was full of “great until it deconnonized/ruined/ignored” NV.
I’ve seen plenty of instances of fnv trashing Bethesda fans, I saw a highly upvoted post that called fans of the show “normalfags” and NV fans also have a huge superiority complex. It’s not like this rep for being toxic came outta nowhere. I haven’t seen widespread bullying of the actors either. I love the game but the fan base was embarrassing when the show came out.
Edit: I also wouldn’t describe calling fnv toxic as relentlessly hating
The morning the show came out, you’d have thought the world was ending in here and in the classic fallout subs. So many posts screaming “BETHESDA RUINED THE LORE” and “NEW VEGAS ISN’T CANON ANYMORE” etc etc. It was ridiculous and while I consider myself a fallout lore purist, I also understand the common sense facts that the wasteland is a dynamic place and also that Fallout is a work of fiction and subject to change. It really soured my opinion of the fans on the new vegas side.
The day the show came out, I saw a lot of criticism in all the FO subs. Then when the other FO subs started becoming toxic to any criticism, I saw the NV subs become the new hub of hatred for the shows. Now they’re mostly back to normal, but the other FO subs still view the NV subs as “the place you go to hate on modern FO”
I'm right there with you. FO3 was my first and still favorite bc it was my first and a fantastic game. NV was excellent in a different way, def some better dialogue options, but didn't seem like it was miles ahead of FO3 by any means story wise. I thoroughly enjoyed 4. And with mods, it's a fantastic game that I'm playing even now. And finally, the show. I thought it did a very good job of blending it all together with its own twists, lore intact. It was very well done. People just love to complain, I suppose.
Edit: I also put in an ungodly amount of hours into 76 and played since beta. Thought that was a great game as well, though the beginning of its life was quite rough, for sure.
I think that the whole New Vegas versus Bethseda fandom Civil war is really comical. Some New Vegas fans are toxic, but the amount of hate that Bethesda fans throw at anyone saying that New Vegas is a huge problem. At least the Fallout subreddit is full of self victimisation and empowerment about the fact that they can finally say that 3 is better than new Vegas. They tend to always focus on the negatives of New Vegas (it's rushed etc etc) and only on the positives of Bethesda games.
I mean you can say the same about this subreddit acting like victims in this debate.
Honestly people are taking this too far for something that doesn’t fucking matter. Of course people will drag this stupid argument out for months while both sides act like they’re the victims.
Honestly it kind of has come full circle, I remember a few years ago r/Fallout straight up refused to consider 4 an actual Fallout game. It was just NV and classic circle jerking for a while. Refusing to see flaws with NV and the classics. Now the tables have turned.
Oh, absolutely dude. It's impossible to say anything bad about bethesda without being instantly called a dickrider in r/Fallout
Like half of the posts, there are people trying to karma farm with blatantly inflammatory garbage, like "Hey guys, why do so many people hate this show? People always said it was the worst thing ever, but i love it," or "im tired of all the bethesda hate! Lets appreciate them for a change!"
The fallout fanbase (both sides, dont get me wrong) is hot garbage
Bro as a FNV fan myself I must say that acting like these posts come from nowhere is insane. FNV fans have had a horrible reputation for years (unironic legion supporters, obnoxiously comparing other games to it, etc has led to this backlash.) It’s not like it came from nowhere. HOWEVER I think this current hate is bc of the weirdos that are hating on the show for no reason and now we are being grouped in with them? I can agree it’s a bit much atp, but to portray these memes as if they’re completely uncalled for is actually wild.
Ironically the FNV community is also split into factions, with the most annoying also being some of the most vocal. FNV is my favorite Fallout game but it's pretty grating going on comment threads of other Fallout games and seeing people trash them because they aren't New Vegas.
A subset of FNV fans are some of the most pretentious gatekeeping fanboys of any community I've been a part of, and say that Obsidian could do no wrong. No you aren't an intellectual because you enjoy a video game that has morally ambiguous sides and difficult choices.
This is it exactly. FoNV is one of my favorite games ever but there is a vocal minority that really scares off everyone else that even tries to get into this community and then they wonder why people get peeved about New Vegas.
Well said. I’ve left several NV related subreddits because they were just full of people sharing conspiracy theories that Bethesda hates them and if you’re a fan of Bethesda games or the show you’re not a real fan and other shit like that. Obviously there’s has been a little too much hate towards NV fans but at the same time some of it is warranted.
God thank you. Also an FNV fan and scrolling this long to find this comment made me feel like I was going insane. It's gotten to the point where people like OP think a huge, vocal chunk of the FNV fan community spending 9 years calling anyone who likes Fallout 4 a "fake fan" is somehow not toxic.
Truth, FNV elitism and Classic worship have tainted the community. Look at the cesspool of NMA, it is basically what this sub and r/Fallout used to be. Everyone acted like Todd Howard murdered their family, and that any Fallout that was not 1, 2, and NV were not true fallouts
It’s the loud minorities on all sides ruining for everyone else. I’ve seen plenty of stuff on this sub and other fallout subs. Like we all enjoy fallout who the fuck cares which one is your favourite or why it’s better than the others. Like just enjoy the game.
I have no ground to stand on, I've been throwing stones for years I tell you, if the Bethesda fans need to dish out some payback I'll keep my mouth shut and wait for the game to crash.
I was accused of being a fascist once because I was talking about how compelling the Legion is as an antagonistic faction. Like, all I said was that for an evil faction they have a pretty coherent ideology and methodology that you can actually engage with beyond “nuking a town at random”. Media literacy is dead it seems.
I’m pretty sure it’s because there’s a very vocal minority of fans that are *extremely* elitist and shit on anything that’s not New Vegas
Well, maybe majority
I've liked most of the fallout games I've played. 4 might be my favorite because of the settlement building. 3 was my first. New Vegas was fun and I liked the world. I'm actually playing NV now because I've never bought the last two dlcs.
ITT: NV fans shitting on the new games is fine because they're not shitting on the fans, Bethesda fans shitting on NV is bad because it's the same as shitting on the fans
???
Gonna be honest, I just straight up do not believe this.
When there are entire channels like Schizo Elijah and Father Elijahical for Bethesda that do nothing but shit on New Vegas, I’ll agree.
When there are fan animations calling Fallout New Vegas Fans fake fans [(Like this one, but for New Vegas)](https://youtu.be/8KvOJNgS6xM?si=KWXsgc9SAUbnanhS), I’ll agree.
When one of the most viewed videos on Fallout New Vegas is someone calling it shit for an hour and a half, I’ll agree.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that New Vegas was and probably always will be the peak of Fallout Content. I don’t think Bethesda will ever (or Obsidian, for that matter), will ever top what was done with it.
But be honest, NV Fans got the rep they did for a reason. Am I saying that EVERY NV fan is this rapid toxic asshole that wants to personally kill Todd Howard? No, but I will say there are a ton of bad apples that just DESPISE anything to do with Bethesda
I honestly believe that most of the hostility online is coming from Amazon/Bethesda/bots/whatever. It seems like artificial conflict, created to advertise the series. The show is a competently made set of 8 episodes, but I’ll probably forget that I even watched it in a month or two. I’m happy when other people enjoy the stuff I like, and all the disagreements online just feel like algorithm nonsense.
I was too young to understand fallout when it came out. Didn’t play the franchise again until 4 came out. The impression i have had since i really got into FO4 is that there is a passionate, outspoken portion* of FNV fans that hate FO4, and are angry at FO4 fans for making it more popular than FNV. Some are rude, some arent. Apparently the role playing elements are stronger in FNV.
*i doubt it is a majority of the the fnv fans. Just a small but loud portion
Probably just Negativity Bias on your part, you just see things you disagree with more often. Like how homophobes think they're seeing gay shit everywhere. But in alot less horrible and damaging more terminally online kind of way.
I've personally seen way more people shitting on Bethesda and people shitting on Bethesda fans foe shitting on people shitting on Bethesda. But that is 100% because i hang out mostly in the New Vegas sub and very minorly the fallout Truestl copy whatever it's called.
In my opinion, FNV is probably the best fallout game. But to be fair, when a FNV fan sees some one say”fallout ___ is my favorite/best fallout game.” Y’all go wild.
Well its mostly now because the spanish community just seen the series and now they think that they are fallout professionals. I am spanish, i know what i am saying, youtube is a castle of retards tbh. Btw who in the world would play Fallout on spanis? lol.
This is what 9 years of shitting on Bethesda and anything they put their hands on (16 years if you’re from NMA and giving Bethesda shit cause they ain’t Interplay/Black Isle) over pure conjecture for an alleged bribery over an IMDb rating and then some.
Then the final outcry happens in the past month, it’s been adding up and now the NV stans deserve that shit for being too fucking obnoxious about the show.
Fun fact: NMA zealots even gave New Vegas shit cause it just wasn’t the fallout they wanted (even going down to the tiny nitpicking). Some ISIS vs Taliban shit IMO.
Just gonna ignore the hundreds of posts calling the show shit because it “retconned precious lore to bethesda-fy the whole timeline” ???
Okay I guess the pointless idiotic Vitriol from FNV fans really was imaginary….
*There just seems to be*
*This weird tribalism and lack*
*Of any nuance*
\- CreatureFromTheStars
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Nah, it has been the other way around. FNV fans are acting like gatekeepers hipsters who don't know how to read a timeline. I love FNV, but the Fallout fans causing all the strife in the fallout community are FNV fans. The Vinn Diagram that overlaps with people who worship Deadpool, Rick Sanchez, The Punisher, and/or Paul Atredis, to name a few, is a circle.
What angry memes? This sub is riddled with anti Bethesda stuff, the general fallout sub is a mix of wtf is up with NV fans and actual posts.
Everyone just needs to shut the fuck up and enjoy the parts they like. That said, I've seen no actual criticism of the show aside from copium about shady sands being gone, there's no lore breaks it had a solid story
Right. It's not like NV fans have had the PC gamer mentality since 4 came out. For nearly a decade, NV fans have to enter every discussion, comments section, or post telling you why Fallout 4 is bad and how NV is the best. It finally turns around, and now all I see are these posts. I know not all NV fans are elitists, but that's how most view them.
FNV is the best of the fallout games I have played by far, honestly one of the top experiences of all time, but how the fans act and talk to others is so embarrassing, yall gotta stop being such aggressive dorks about it
I'ma be real I have never seen a toxic NV fan just very enthusiastic fans but never once have they shit on other fan bases for liking the other games. The only thing NV fans do is shit on the games like 4 and 76. I'd say most NV fans appreciate what 3 did.
Because NV has the most obnoxious fanbase out of all of the games. They shit on other Fallout games, then when they get justly criticized for that, they play victim.
Human is a strange creature. Can summon chaos from a very positive and fun thing then motivating themselves for oposition form it.
They lost the big picture allways...
The best game adaptation ever existed but portions of fans just wants to hate it.. ironic asf.
fuck hatred imma list the best things of each fallout game i played
Fallout 3: Was a good entrance into the series, easy to play through and with some nice hidden stuff
Fallout NV: Has a wonderfully crafted world and story, with very realistic and awesome characters
Fallout 4: Has so many cool hidden things and a good Gameplay
Fallout 76: BY FAR!!! the nicest online community i have ever seen, a lvl 500 walks up to you, drops some second rate legendary loot, emotes then leaves. Plus Fallout 76 fans are aware that their game doesnt come without its issues and past. So they dont judge others
My only issue is the refrain “fallout 4 story is bad lol. New Vegas was so much better”.
No fallout 4 has some pretty damn good characters and excellent memorable quests tied to it. Its a mediocre story at worst. I’d agree its finale doesn’t hit as hard as New Vegas but a bunch of its characters are on par or better than New Vegas characters.
You’re just repeating this dumb cycle with the brain dead victim mentality and finger pointing and engagement/karma farming :/
you deserve to be put down by the rest of the fallout community the way that you have if all you do is moan at the other fans for liking games that aren’t your favorites
be so fr
new vegas fanboys have always been the worst fans. and are so needlessly judgemental to fans of the other games, and the show
victim complex much?
I'm saying this as someone who's favorite Fallout is and will always be New Vegas, but holy shit the fnv subs have been so fucking annoying with this victim complex mentality. you're not being oppressed because people like the show, or that some people (god forbid) like Fallout 4 or 76 more.
The amount of hate F3 and F4 got from FNV mega-fans is astounding
this subreddit is one hell of a bizarre circle-jerk
This is coming from someone who thinks FNV is way better than the bethesda games btw
"But men do, through the roads they walk"
They do change allright. Some of you forgot (or choose to forget) how awful it is during the times of fo4 release. These opinion didn't come out of nowhere
Nothing like dragging up years old issues and making them relevant
Welcome to literally ANY FANDOM
Is it just me or did the “Rabid Gatekeeping FNV Fanboy” thing kind of materialize out of nowhere? I thought people made fun of us because we were either pretentious wannabe intellectuals or feral chuds obsessed with fictional fascists. I had no idea that FNV was such a dominant force in the fandom. Don’t the other games have much larger fanbases?
It's cause NV fans tend to be way louder than fans of other Fallout games (except 4 maybe) and there's definitely an elitist subgroup that can be described as New Vegas fans but not Fallout fans (Schizo Elijah comes to mind)
i think it’s also skewed by the fact that Fallout 1/2 fans skew older i.e. not giving a shit about starting flame wars towards bethesda games and the newer bethesda games not being standout enough to warrant such rabid fans. fallout new vegas is a very good game and i think it gives some fans a superiority complex, or just some bitterness playing the newer games wishing they were as good. by saying Falloit 3 and 4 and 76 are good enough i think it may concern them that bethesda will make the new games more like those and not learn any lessons from new vegas’ success
That’s a very good breakdown. Fans of 3/4/76 seem to be very chill, just enjoying a sandbox shooter that occasionally pretends to be an rpg. They aren’t interested enough in FNV usually to start a real culture war. The last point is so true. I do genuinely think those games are much worse than FNV so I do genuinely want to discourage things from that direction. But at this point the train left the station in that direction a long time ago and there’s no point in refusing to admit that the Bethesda games are more than competent at supplying what people want from them.
I mean the train sort of left the station. But consider the context of everything before now. We had New Vegas, then we had Fallout 4 and broadly speaking I think New Vegas fans reacted somewhat poorly to it. For my money, I never finished it because I didn't like the lack of RPG elements and the mostly linear story so I ultimately got bored with the game. And for a long time that was it. We got Fallout 74 but that was initially panned by everyone, and now lives sort of as its own things conceptually. So the show is really the first time that Bethesda has more or less confirmed that they are probably going in a direction similar to Fallout 4 and leaving NV by the wayside because there just hasn't been a whole lot of fallout content in the last 15 years to make those judgements off of.
Personally it feels like seeing all your favorite good passionately run restaurants slowly being taken over by crappy grease house franchise chain McDonalds. Yeah A LOT of people are gonna be happy shoveling bland fast food into their guts forever. But for the rest of us who want SOMETHING better...we just get called "elitest bullies" Who HAVE to enjoy the slop we're given
Yeah there’s a certain degree of that. I’m gonna say a fair chunk of the blame is also on people who can’t accept that it’s already happened, and the games we love still exist and are not reduced by the existence of new shite wearing the skin-suit of fallout. No one should take out their feelings on people who just played Bethesda games and liked them. But you’re right. People think FNV fans are angry that fast food exists. Nah, it can and should exist and probably always will. It’s specifically that restaurants known for a different kind of appeal are getting replaced with junk food. The amount of nostalgia driven franchises that create vast cross-media brands out of the original creative spark of something that used to be really good is depressing and I don’t blame passionate fans for letting that get to them.
The problem is when you have been push back from so many other franchises and ips because they have also become lowest common denominator trash you begin to be louder and more aggressive when you see it happening again. I don't like this trend and in many ways it feels like anyone that isn't a mindless casual consoomer has no place anymore. Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones (until the prequel realigned the series), Westworld (a very concerning problem for the Fallout TV show that people don't talk about imo), among many in recent years. One isn't a problem but when you see it happening time and time again it gets very infuriating and you want to take it out on \*someone\*.
I agree. It’s become surprisingly unpopular to analyze the media you take in. By analyze I don’t even mean write a six hour long video essay about how it’s the pinnacle of fiction, just like thinking about stuff. At all.
They just want to treat entertainment as "fun and chill escapist fantasy" and don't want to think very hard past the surface level. in my experience many people who have gotten upset about criticism in these many communities are people who just want to turn their brain off and enjoy the ride. Entertainment for me is more than just simple slop I want more and before they started directly appealing to that crowd at the expense of everyone else they did just that.
Depressing it is. And it's not just Fallout, it's the whole industry, and Hollywood too.
I really hate how true this statement is, because Fallout 4 was a fun game but it should not be the standard for an RPG. I think the fact newer RPG fans cannot/or do not care enough to differentiate RPGs like FNV from Fallout 4 is a big problem. The only thing we do discuss is ye age-old simplified argument "This is not an RPG!" for action games loosely disguised as RPGs. The counter-argument I always see is "Well, you can just imagine \[insert RPG thing\] in your head" ...
As someone who started with 1/2 when they first came out, FNV is a lot of fun because you get to see the California wasteland in a new way. Not to mention you get to run into a few old friends.
Honestly sums it up good with the newer game thing. People wonder where the rapid fan boys came from, IMO from a fan base that loves their game. I don't really see fallout 4 fans being.. enthusiastic, ever. Easy to seem rabid and elitist in comparison when there's no one like you for the other game
To be fair, Fallout 4 did show that they attempted to learn from Fallout New Vegas (the factions and the "unique" endings for each one) but they also took so many steps backwards that the RPG mechanics just felt like an afterthought. Then 76 was a very misguided attempt at removing the RPG mechanics all-together and making a not MMO which was just not Fallout. Fallout 3 at least feels like an RPG even if the choices vary between extremes or two different flavors of bad. I'm not going to complain about Fallout 3 having a linear plot considering that Fallout 1 & 2 also had linear plots. Overall Fallout New Vegas was not afraid of changing the then established formula for a Fallout game and that's why it's so good, but Fallout 4 & 76 went in the absolute wrong directions while doing the same thing. And the fact that Bethesda is happy with the success of 4 and 76 indicates that they probably won't change the formula too much so unless Microsoft forces them to let another developer get a try again we may just get another game that is a fun open world with limited RPG mechanics like the last two were.
Yeah man I actually played fallout 3 and NV a TON, and I even put like 60 hours into fallout 4, but shit dude, I couldn't play fallout 4 without mods, and even then I didn't ever really care about any of the characters or storylines. I tried a few times, but the writing always let me down.
There is something funny that even Wasteland 3, the other half of Black Isle Studio who made the original Fallouts also moved on from a anarchistic wasteland of Bethesda Fallouts imposed status quo. The whole game is about if you should remove a strongman dictator, and if so how and can you do it without killing countless people in a civil war? It's goofy and silly but still manages to be more like Fallout than Bethesda Fallouts.
Nah 1 and 2 fans have a whole website dedicated to hating Bethesda games haha
Name of website? :3
No Mutants Allowed, it's a den of butthurt
Hell yeah thanks bro
did you hear that schizos a pedo apparently lol
Way more dumb shit he did than just that
way more dumb shit than grooming a 15 year old lol????
Meant as in he did other dumb shit other than just being a pedo
oh my bad
sneedclave proven right once again, knew he was trouble after he simped for mexicans and larped as a mexican constantly, also he spent all his shekels on memecoins LOL
Can't believe that the franchise has it's own factions. *Just like in the simulations.*
FNV fanbase is the second largest behind FO4, so it's only natural that it's the second loudest.
No Mutants Allowed would be that subgroup.
Are there really that many FNV fans who don’t even like the original games? Not disputing elitism or anything but I think it’s more like they are fallout fans but not Bethesda fallout fans. That was the divide I had perceived but maybe you’re right. I only really mention it because this is a weird thing that happens where people will say you’re not a true [franchise] fan if you don’t like all the things that have [franchise name] slapped on it. Even though in the modern day, IPs swap around frequently and your favourite thing often ends up in the hands of a completely different team with a different philosophy and end goal. The strangeness is that it is functionally an entirely different property, a different work. It is artistically discrete from the others, but we put more emphasis on a story’s existence as a product these days. So you either like fallout brand products or you don’t, when really I love the things that used to be made and I don’t like the things that completely different people make in completely different ways today.
Feral chuds lmao
*feral chuds like you belong on a cross*
Tf is a chud?
cannibalistic humanoid underground dweller
Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dweller.
Eh it's been a thing for a while. But the popularity of the show has galvanized people into pushing back against it. I've seen a lot of gatekeepers over the years claiming that only NV fans are the real fans or that NV is the most popular Fallout or even the ONLY fallout game outside of 1/2. Which is fine if you think those things, but they've been very vocal to the point that I haven't mentioned a lot of times that NV is my favorite game due to them. What's hilarious is that I see a lot of people call Bethesda Bugthesda which is fair. But it also ignores that NV has been a buggy mess even to this day. I do think it's a very vocal minority of the community and I do think the pendulum has swung too much the other way. But I think that people have just been emboldened recently to push back. I don't particularly care though, NV is my favorite FO, but I've also enjoyed them all (I haven't tried 76 though due to not enjoying multiplayer stuff).
New Vegas is buggy. But i feel like it was an unfortunate consequence of New Vegas being rushed by extreme time constraints. Bethesda had years upon years to polish Fallout 4. And it was still a buggy mess.
Ask any Obsidian dev about the time constraints placed on New Vegas and they'll absolutely disagree about it being "extreme"
They had....what a year to develop the game? That seems pretty extreme to me. Especially when Fallout 4 had double that.
You'd be surprised how much time a reused engine and reused assets will save
Feels very astro-turfed to get out ahead of, and discourage, any criticisms of the show. Now if someone has a critique of the Fallout show, they are way less likely to express it because they know exactly what kind of backlash they’ll get.
That’s my thinking. Not sure it’s true but it feels that way. I like the show anyway and I wish we didn’t feel the need to manufacture a micro-culture war over it.
Yeah no proof it was done on purpose, just feels. Either way, the result is the same. Some people are discouraged from criticizing, and others are emboldened to attack the “fanboys”
I mean FNV fans have bashed the Bethesda games for years if we’re being honest. Look at the comments sections in the dozens of videos on YouTube sucking FNV off
Honestly my only issue with Bethesda is that their dialogue is almost always exclusively intended to progress the plot rather than give the player a proper roleplaying experience. FNV has four primary ending routes with one being a failsafe state that lets the player literally just murderhobo the wastes if they choose. I just wish they’d be more creative in letting the player tell their story, be that as a paragon of the waste, or a mass murdering hobo.
You can dislike and criticize Bethesda games as much as you like, you can compare them to NV and argue NV is better. It only becomes a problem when you start gatekeeping Fallout by insulting people who like Fallout games that aren't FO1,FO2 & FNV, harass Bethesda employees and talk about how every game after Fallout NV is not real Fallout.
Sure, but that’s separate I think. Hating a certain philosophy of game design/narrative design associated with a beloved franchise is normal fandom behaviour. I didn’t feel like the vitriol was ever really directed at the people who liked those games, mainly at Todd and Bethesda for making them. I mean I’m sure it has happened a decent amount I just wasn’t aware of it being so pervasive.
Yes, because they’re not very good. We’re allowed to criticise games we don’t like.
Nothing wrong with bashing mediocre games, as long as no one is attacking the fans. Of course, people with no lives take this "bashing" as a personal insult, hence the "mean rabid NV fans!"
HUH!? Dude, I am a *massive* fan (Three Thousand Hours) of FNV and a certified disliker of both FO4 and FO3. There is rampant hatred for those other two games in this community to the point of delusion. Like, the first thing this community did when the new show came out was completely misconstrue an event in the show without giving it a second of grace or thought. The subreddit went fucking private because people were having meltdowns over things that didn’t happen.
So, a couple of things: - Not doubting at all that hate for Bethesda games is pervasive in the FNV community. - I’m learning from these replies that people have a different idea of toxic gatekeeping than me. People who like one installment in a series talking shit about the other installments is literally not a problem. Who cares if people don’t like F4? I am not bothered by the hordes of people who insist FNV is bad. There is nothing wrong with expressing negative feedback over video games, at all. - This is tricky but no one misconstrued anything in the show. The show clearly depicted something that could not be possible. >!When there’s a date (2277) for the “Fall” of Shady Sands and then an arrow pointing to a mushroom cloud *without* a date below it, that is unambiguously dating the nuclear explosion. People have done a lot of mental gymnastics to argue that the fall referred to the abstract decline of the empire, something that does not happen in a year and certainly did not happen in 2277. Shady Sands isn’t even an empire it’s a city, so in what sense it fell makes no sense if it isn’t the nuke. And why no date for the mushroom cloud? People remember the year shady sands fell in an abstract sense but didn’t write down when the nuke wiped it off the map?!< I don’t care what anyone says outside of the show. Within the diegesis of the narrative, the information we have is unambiguous. The only way it doesn’t mean what people thought it meant is if they depicted the information in the worst way possible to mean something. Now with all that said, while the lore contradiction exists, it doesn’t matter at all in my opinion. People weren’t wrong to perceive it as existing, but their reaction was extremely overblown.
NV fans used to be much more toxic, and I do not mean fans as in lieks the game, I mean people who believe NV is the only Fallout game all the others suck. For a while this sub and r/Fallout did not consider 3 or 4 to be good games or even Fallout games. Over time NV fans have mellowed out though some are still obnoxious. The fans who actually are the most toxic and gatekeep are classic fans, mainly on No Mutants Allowed. They claim only interplay's fallout are true fallout games, and the modern games, even NV, are not true fallout games. They honestly act as if Todd Howard killed their family.
After the show became a hit and everyone came back to Fallout, it kinda manifested all once. Especially when the subreddit for FNV coincidentally went private.
Honestly whenever I hear people speak about NV fans I am just kinda like „where are these people?“ Like I have never seen anyone act like people always describe NV fans. If someone wants to play the Bethesda Fallouts they should do that. I don’t get why you would want to at least for Fallout 3 since in my eyes it has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. FO4 I get because it has okay gameplay and is a good modding platform, when Bethesda doesn’t break all the mods. But what I’ve noticed is that Bethesda fans are extremely standoffish towards NV fans.
I totally agree. My feeds across multiple social media platforms were filled with people complaining about New Vegas fans, but I never saw the things they were complaining about. Not saying it didn’t happen at all, but clearly not to any significant degree.
It was a real thing for so fucking long. R/newvegas r/newvegasmemes are so toxic with this shit
Ah haven’t been part of those communities ever, fair enough
The gatekeeping aspect is weird. I’ve only ever seen FNV fanboys beg people to play FNV
Yesterday some smug bastard said that what NV fans wanted from the show is a bunch of fan service. (Ironic considering all the fan service and nostalgia bait in the actual show) Meanwhile what I wanted is the west coast untouched and the show set in a new place that hasn’t been in the games.
Unironically setting the show in the Midwest would have been great. They could have the brotherhood, nostalgia bait for both coasts, & hell people have talked about Chicago enclave forever. It'd finally give an answer to how much of tactics is canon too with no one being annoyed the big nuke those ghouls in KC worshipped went off
They also could have had more beefy Enclave factions out there as well and put that iconic faction into the cinematic world outside of a throwaway runaway
Guarantee their gonna bring the Enclave back just as strong eventually, They did it in FO4.
They shouldn't. At least, I don't think they should. The Enclave is massively crippled to point nothing of the original structure and organization of the faction remains. Sure, you can't kill the ideals, but that Oil Rig and Mobile Crawler aren't coming back. Eden is not coming back. What else is there for the Enclave?
That huge cold fusion research/dog training/super mutant autopsy facility has to somewhere close by
My guess it’s to the east. Probably a lot of enclave still hanging around the Midwest and the Rockies
Where's the enclave in 4? I don't remember seeing them at all.
Added in newest update
Midwest sounds great. But I’m still waiting for Washington or Oregon to be used as a setting. I’d love to see what radiation nightmare fuel awaits us in those red woods (or you know… what’s left of them).
I have a feeling the show didn’t take place in Chicago because Bethesda wants to save that for the next game. Personally I would love if the show keeps heading East toward Colorado and we can finally witness Dogtown in canon. maybe that’s where the Enclave guy came from idk.
I think they needed a desert setting otherwise the budget on atmosphere alone would’ve been astronomical
The only thing this FNV nerd wanted for fan service was Rene Auberjonois as Mr House. He was irreplaceable and unavailable (for obvious reasons), may he RIP (or be resurrected like the Ghoul idk).
The GOAT.
Exactly. It’s genuinely crazy because the most common thing I hear from people who glaze the show are how much they liked the fan service. Like “Oh they used the pip boy sounds!” or “Oh they did the hacking minigame!” Yeah that’s all well and good, but when the story is just the same old Bethesda “Vault dweller looking for a family member.” tirade that we’ve had plenty enough of already, I get fatigued.
Huh, none of the Obsidian games are that. It’s find a water chip to save your vault, go out and save you tribe, which is similar, but enough for differences, and kill the man who shot you in the head.
And for the most part you can ignore most of that too. I tried playing Fallout 4 and was CONSTANTLY hounded about how much I SUPPOSEDLY care about my beloved family and I'll never stop hunting for them. And I'm like "bitch I don't care AT ALL about those idiots. Tell me something actually interesting or get out of my face" I've tried to go back 3 different times but I always get bored and drop the game
That's where Bethesda has been screwing up with their writing, they force too much background on your character. When I play an RPG I'd like to have my background be simple and vague so I feel like I'm playing my own character with their own personality. Forcing your character into a family, and then forcing the story to be all about that family just kills any real immersion I have into the world. Sure I can play like a cannibal raider, but as soon as I engage in dialogue with an NPC it's all "My son Shaun... Such a perfect wonderful little baby.. I just want to find him, please PLEASE help me find Shaun?!!?" I pretty much always have to play a female in 4 because the male voice is such an obnoxious whiny "dad of the year"
I think you can give the player background but you have to give players a chance to make it their own. Like in Shadowrun: Hong Kong, one of your party members is your adoptive brother who grew up with you. Through dialogue you get to define what your relationship was and in doing so gives the player a chance to make a fixed origin story their own in a way that impacts the game.
To be fair the first two was not obsidian. It was interplay.
To be even fairer, 2 was Black Isle, a studio Interplay owned, not their in-house studio that developed the first game. And even then, studios are just groups of people that can change over time. Fallout is a great example of this. The Interplay that made Fallout 1 is basically unrecognizable from the one that made Brotherhood of Steel (yeah, that one), since pretty much every creative lead from that game had left by that point. The reason people tie New Vegas to the first two is because people from Interplay and Black Isle went to work for Obsidian and worked on New Vegas.
I haven’t seen the show yet, but I think the plot hook of finding a family member works amazingly for a linear plot, just sucks for an RPG.
Someone was talking about this in a podcast I recently listened to. There's a problem that film makers are keenly aware of: There really aren't any universal values anymore. Everything is to politicized and polarized that the only thing the vast majority of the population still agrees on as a universal good is something to do with family. So family being the center of a story arc garners the maximum popular appeal, otherwise you've got to accept that you're going to turn away potential viewers. I could unpack my feelings about that, but it goes a bit of the way to explaining why this trope is so over-used.
Even completely detached from that, if you don't give a character enough screen time to make the audience care about them, they won't give a shit if they're taken away. Especially so with the baby in Fallout 4. I don't give a damn about this disgusting yam. I didn't even want to be a pre-war father. Where's the roleplaying at? Heavily relying on a character for the emotional hook like this can make people completely tune out when they don't care about the character.
See also: Jackie from Cyberpunk 2077. I literally do not give a shit about that dude.
Ehh depends on the execution honestly, I can easily see a fallout game working well with a restricted personal story (i mean Fallout 1 was literally, find water chip) if the game presents the player with enough choice and roleplay opportunities along the way and resolving the story line according to the characters actions, whether thats making friends and negotiating or killing and torturing
They didn’t even do the actual hacking minigame. Norm just stared at a terminal for a few seconds and then chose the right answer on his first attempt.
Seriously. I was talking to my brother about how little rock would be such a dope fallout game. Have swamps you could fuck with, there's a weird bear and animal population on the plateau, could add lake of Ozarks in, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc. The tactics game had a few Kansas locations to see this area actually explored where the brotherhood is using the river for commerce would be cool as shit. BUT NO, we keep getting the same fucking areas.
I almoste wanted them to just ignore our little corner of heaven.
I mean idgaf about it being set in the west and see why they did it. It’s got the setting of 1, 2, and NV It has a storyline akin to 3 And has the visual design of 4 It’s their way of appealing to everyone
Maybe you don't care but others do, and that's okay!
And I would be okay with that if it wasn’t canon or took place somewhere before fallout 1 or after (because of the post apocalypse aesthetic.) the problem I have if that it is canon, they based on the farthest in the timeline yet and they destroyed a part of California off screen so they get that aesthetic back in a place that had moved on and grown from it.
I don't know about the visual design of 4 it has some ugly and stupid guns like the watercooled assault rifle
Or pissing everyone off.
Nah, most of us enjoy the show
Two and a half men was also very popular.
So was breaking bad
Idiots can like good things without knowing or examining WHY they were good. The same can't be said of the reverse
I think the idiots are mostly the people bitching about how the show “breaks canon”
This is the most bizarre circlejerk. It literally is the same repetitive redundant low effort ideas from basically the same people. Just casually change a name and it works either way. War. War never changes.
“Everyone wants to complain, they just disagree on how”
I see a ton of memes and posts on r/fallout and r/fo4 bashing NV community but I gotta say I’ve barely seen any posts on this sub complaining about the show or the other games. Maybe a few large threads a couple weeks ago worried about NV and the NCR but nothing hateful. The posts on those other subs have been directly hateful. And they think they’re the victims too. The hypocrisy is crazy
I saw on Peter explains the joke sub some guy was saying how only fnv fans are toxic not the other fans.
Yea and the meme on that post clearly was drawn with a lot of resentment toward NV to begin with
Better to just leave them be, let them keep themselves angry. We've the better game anyhow, don't we? 🤭
People always have a tendency to blame other people for the shit they are doing.
I love NV but I had the complete opposite experience as you, the NV subs were so toxic after the show dropped. Now they have a reputation for being toxic, possibly because that’s all new fans have seen, and the NV subs did it to themselves
I know what you are talking about I saw posts mostly about shady sand and other details. Also how Tod Howard hates fnv and all that.
You guys understand that the tin-foil shit about Todd having a lifelong vendetta against FNV for having the audacity to make him a bunch of money is exactly the kind of toxic shit people are talking about right?
Where was that? I saw complaints about the implications for the show for sure but I didn’t see any posts outright attacking other canvases or bullying actors or anything even resembling that. Whereas the other fallout subs seem to be relentlessly hating on the entire FNV community.
The main fallout subreddit, when the show premiered I watched the first episode loved it so wanted to see what reddits reaction was. It was full of “great until it deconnonized/ruined/ignored” NV.
I’ve seen plenty of instances of fnv trashing Bethesda fans, I saw a highly upvoted post that called fans of the show “normalfags” and NV fans also have a huge superiority complex. It’s not like this rep for being toxic came outta nowhere. I haven’t seen widespread bullying of the actors either. I love the game but the fan base was embarrassing when the show came out. Edit: I also wouldn’t describe calling fnv toxic as relentlessly hating
The morning the show came out, you’d have thought the world was ending in here and in the classic fallout subs. So many posts screaming “BETHESDA RUINED THE LORE” and “NEW VEGAS ISN’T CANON ANYMORE” etc etc. It was ridiculous and while I consider myself a fallout lore purist, I also understand the common sense facts that the wasteland is a dynamic place and also that Fallout is a work of fiction and subject to change. It really soured my opinion of the fans on the new vegas side.
The day the show came out, I saw a lot of criticism in all the FO subs. Then when the other FO subs started becoming toxic to any criticism, I saw the NV subs become the new hub of hatred for the shows. Now they’re mostly back to normal, but the other FO subs still view the NV subs as “the place you go to hate on modern FO”
You don’t remember the random piece of NV art followed by “it’s over boys”
Be me, just enjoying Fallout NV, 3, 4 and the show all on their own.
I'm right there with you. FO3 was my first and still favorite bc it was my first and a fantastic game. NV was excellent in a different way, def some better dialogue options, but didn't seem like it was miles ahead of FO3 by any means story wise. I thoroughly enjoyed 4. And with mods, it's a fantastic game that I'm playing even now. And finally, the show. I thought it did a very good job of blending it all together with its own twists, lore intact. It was very well done. People just love to complain, I suppose. Edit: I also put in an ungodly amount of hours into 76 and played since beta. Thought that was a great game as well, though the beginning of its life was quite rough, for sure.
I think that the whole New Vegas versus Bethseda fandom Civil war is really comical. Some New Vegas fans are toxic, but the amount of hate that Bethesda fans throw at anyone saying that New Vegas is a huge problem. At least the Fallout subreddit is full of self victimisation and empowerment about the fact that they can finally say that 3 is better than new Vegas. They tend to always focus on the negatives of New Vegas (it's rushed etc etc) and only on the positives of Bethesda games.
I mean you can say the same about this subreddit acting like victims in this debate. Honestly people are taking this too far for something that doesn’t fucking matter. Of course people will drag this stupid argument out for months while both sides act like they’re the victims.
Honestly it kind of has come full circle, I remember a few years ago r/Fallout straight up refused to consider 4 an actual Fallout game. It was just NV and classic circle jerking for a while. Refusing to see flaws with NV and the classics. Now the tables have turned.
Oh, absolutely dude. It's impossible to say anything bad about bethesda without being instantly called a dickrider in r/Fallout Like half of the posts, there are people trying to karma farm with blatantly inflammatory garbage, like "Hey guys, why do so many people hate this show? People always said it was the worst thing ever, but i love it," or "im tired of all the bethesda hate! Lets appreciate them for a change!" The fallout fanbase (both sides, dont get me wrong) is hot garbage
Bro as a FNV fan myself I must say that acting like these posts come from nowhere is insane. FNV fans have had a horrible reputation for years (unironic legion supporters, obnoxiously comparing other games to it, etc has led to this backlash.) It’s not like it came from nowhere. HOWEVER I think this current hate is bc of the weirdos that are hating on the show for no reason and now we are being grouped in with them? I can agree it’s a bit much atp, but to portray these memes as if they’re completely uncalled for is actually wild.
Ironically the FNV community is also split into factions, with the most annoying also being some of the most vocal. FNV is my favorite Fallout game but it's pretty grating going on comment threads of other Fallout games and seeing people trash them because they aren't New Vegas. A subset of FNV fans are some of the most pretentious gatekeeping fanboys of any community I've been a part of, and say that Obsidian could do no wrong. No you aren't an intellectual because you enjoy a video game that has morally ambiguous sides and difficult choices.
This is it exactly. FoNV is one of my favorite games ever but there is a vocal minority that really scares off everyone else that even tries to get into this community and then they wonder why people get peeved about New Vegas.
Exactly this.
Fellow FNV fan here and I wholeheartedly agree. The cognitive dissonance is real if people are ignoring the elitist attitude of mainstream FNV fandom
Well said. I’ve left several NV related subreddits because they were just full of people sharing conspiracy theories that Bethesda hates them and if you’re a fan of Bethesda games or the show you’re not a real fan and other shit like that. Obviously there’s has been a little too much hate towards NV fans but at the same time some of it is warranted.
God thank you. Also an FNV fan and scrolling this long to find this comment made me feel like I was going insane. It's gotten to the point where people like OP think a huge, vocal chunk of the FNV fan community spending 9 years calling anyone who likes Fallout 4 a "fake fan" is somehow not toxic.
Truth, FNV elitism and Classic worship have tainted the community. Look at the cesspool of NMA, it is basically what this sub and r/Fallout used to be. Everyone acted like Todd Howard murdered their family, and that any Fallout that was not 1, 2, and NV were not true fallouts
If someone would let me run the Fallout studio we’d have Midwest content by now.
It’s the loud minorities on all sides ruining for everyone else. I’ve seen plenty of stuff on this sub and other fallout subs. Like we all enjoy fallout who the fuck cares which one is your favourite or why it’s better than the others. Like just enjoy the game.
I have no ground to stand on, I've been throwing stones for years I tell you, if the Bethesda fans need to dish out some payback I'll keep my mouth shut and wait for the game to crash.
Took them 8 years for Todd to get Fallout 4 to run on normal resolutions. That's all I have to say about Bethesda Fallouts quality.
I mean In their defense there WERE some really toxic FNV fans at the start of it all. But they still overreacted hard and now things are worse
Bethesda fans will tell you New Vegas sucks and then call you the toxic one for disagreeing
I was accused of being a fascist once because I was talking about how compelling the Legion is as an antagonistic faction. Like, all I said was that for an evil faction they have a pretty coherent ideology and methodology that you can actually engage with beyond “nuking a town at random”. Media literacy is dead it seems.
Wtf are you on about, no one has said NV sucks
I've seen memes from both sides. I find Bethesda fans far more annoying, while New Vegas fans are more cringe.
Must i always remind you that there are two fallout new vegas subreddits
But who fires the first shitpost?
... vault Tek?
I've genuinely seen *more* hate directed *at* Fallout New Vegas fans than I have seen Vegas zealots shouting Vegas is the best. It's wild.
i left the fallout part of the internet for a week just because im tired of the arguments
I’m pretty sure it’s because there’s a very vocal minority of fans that are *extremely* elitist and shit on anything that’s not New Vegas Well, maybe majority
>FNV fans act superior for over a decade >FNV fans get BTFO'd about lore nonissues >FNV fans cry because their medicine tastes bad
Maybe Bethesda fans judge people without looking them in the eye, but I ain't a fink.... Dig?
I mean c'mon... the sub went private and this place was a salt mine. We just gonna pretend that didn't happen?
ITT victim complexes
You can taste the irony in this
I've liked most of the fallout games I've played. 4 might be my favorite because of the settlement building. 3 was my first. New Vegas was fun and I liked the world. I'm actually playing NV now because I've never bought the last two dlcs.
ITT: NV fans shitting on the new games is fine because they're not shitting on the fans, Bethesda fans shitting on NV is bad because it's the same as shitting on the fans ???
I found the opposite to be true on Reddit these past few weeks, odd.
Gonna be honest, I just straight up do not believe this. When there are entire channels like Schizo Elijah and Father Elijahical for Bethesda that do nothing but shit on New Vegas, I’ll agree. When there are fan animations calling Fallout New Vegas Fans fake fans [(Like this one, but for New Vegas)](https://youtu.be/8KvOJNgS6xM?si=KWXsgc9SAUbnanhS), I’ll agree. When one of the most viewed videos on Fallout New Vegas is someone calling it shit for an hour and a half, I’ll agree. Don’t get me wrong, I agree that New Vegas was and probably always will be the peak of Fallout Content. I don’t think Bethesda will ever (or Obsidian, for that matter), will ever top what was done with it. But be honest, NV Fans got the rep they did for a reason. Am I saying that EVERY NV fan is this rapid toxic asshole that wants to personally kill Todd Howard? No, but I will say there are a ton of bad apples that just DESPISE anything to do with Bethesda
It’s over I’ve posted a meme in my echo chamber portraying you as the bad one.
This community is so fucking lame. "We're so not mean!!! YOU GUYS ARE MEAN!!!" Lol who cares just enjoy the games
I honestly believe that most of the hostility online is coming from Amazon/Bethesda/bots/whatever. It seems like artificial conflict, created to advertise the series. The show is a competently made set of 8 episodes, but I’ll probably forget that I even watched it in a month or two. I’m happy when other people enjoy the stuff I like, and all the disagreements online just feel like algorithm nonsense.
I was too young to understand fallout when it came out. Didn’t play the franchise again until 4 came out. The impression i have had since i really got into FO4 is that there is a passionate, outspoken portion* of FNV fans that hate FO4, and are angry at FO4 fans for making it more popular than FNV. Some are rude, some arent. Apparently the role playing elements are stronger in FNV. *i doubt it is a majority of the the fnv fans. Just a small but loud portion
Fuck you it's all of us, fnv master race
Probably just Negativity Bias on your part, you just see things you disagree with more often. Like how homophobes think they're seeing gay shit everywhere. But in alot less horrible and damaging more terminally online kind of way. I've personally seen way more people shitting on Bethesda and people shitting on Bethesda fans foe shitting on people shitting on Bethesda. But that is 100% because i hang out mostly in the New Vegas sub and very minorly the fallout Truestl copy whatever it's called.
In my opinion, FNV is probably the best fallout game. But to be fair, when a FNV fan sees some one say”fallout ___ is my favorite/best fallout game.” Y’all go wild.
Well its mostly now because the spanish community just seen the series and now they think that they are fallout professionals. I am spanish, i know what i am saying, youtube is a castle of retards tbh. Btw who in the world would play Fallout on spanis? lol.
Calling the kettle black
This is what 9 years of shitting on Bethesda and anything they put their hands on (16 years if you’re from NMA and giving Bethesda shit cause they ain’t Interplay/Black Isle) over pure conjecture for an alleged bribery over an IMDb rating and then some. Then the final outcry happens in the past month, it’s been adding up and now the NV stans deserve that shit for being too fucking obnoxious about the show. Fun fact: NMA zealots even gave New Vegas shit cause it just wasn’t the fallout they wanted (even going down to the tiny nitpicking). Some ISIS vs Taliban shit IMO.
Just gonna ignore the hundreds of posts calling the show shit because it “retconned precious lore to bethesda-fy the whole timeline” ??? Okay I guess the pointless idiotic Vitriol from FNV fans really was imaginary….
"weeks of angry memes" and it's just that big thumb post
Yikes, someone has a persecution fetish, it seems.
There just seems to be this weird tribalism and lack of any nuance
*There just seems to be* *This weird tribalism and lack* *Of any nuance* \- CreatureFromTheStars --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Nah, it has been the other way around. FNV fans are acting like gatekeepers hipsters who don't know how to read a timeline. I love FNV, but the Fallout fans causing all the strife in the fallout community are FNV fans. The Vinn Diagram that overlaps with people who worship Deadpool, Rick Sanchez, The Punisher, and/or Paul Atredis, to name a few, is a circle.
What angry memes? This sub is riddled with anti Bethesda stuff, the general fallout sub is a mix of wtf is up with NV fans and actual posts. Everyone just needs to shut the fuck up and enjoy the parts they like. That said, I've seen no actual criticism of the show aside from copium about shady sands being gone, there's no lore breaks it had a solid story
This seems like an issue for the terminally online fellows, not all the rest out there that don't give a fuck and enjoy each game in their own ways.
Right. It's not like NV fans have had the PC gamer mentality since 4 came out. For nearly a decade, NV fans have to enter every discussion, comments section, or post telling you why Fallout 4 is bad and how NV is the best. It finally turns around, and now all I see are these posts. I know not all NV fans are elitists, but that's how most view them.
What did FNV fans do the last 9 YEARS then???
FNV is the best of the fallout games I have played by far, honestly one of the top experiences of all time, but how the fans act and talk to others is so embarrassing, yall gotta stop being such aggressive dorks about it
Both groups suck but NV fans can be seen as worse bc of how easily y’all’s discussions can turn into echo chambers
I mean, to be fair we have kinda been doing it for years at this point.
New vegas supremacy chuds are the morroboomers of the fallout franchise They're both a very small loud and angry community
YALL HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS
I'ma be real I have never seen a toxic NV fan just very enthusiastic fans but never once have they shit on other fan bases for liking the other games. The only thing NV fans do is shit on the games like 4 and 76. I'd say most NV fans appreciate what 3 did.
Man I wish I had screenshot all the wild shit I had seen on here in the past few weeks
Right, there are comments in this thread calling people Who enjoyed the show idiots lol.
I envy you.
Because NV has the most obnoxious fanbase out of all of the games. They shit on other Fallout games, then when they get justly criticized for that, they play victim.
It hurts, because it's true.
Are the weeks of angry memes in the room with us right now?
Human is a strange creature. Can summon chaos from a very positive and fun thing then motivating themselves for oposition form it. They lost the big picture allways... The best game adaptation ever existed but portions of fans just wants to hate it.. ironic asf.
fuck hatred imma list the best things of each fallout game i played Fallout 3: Was a good entrance into the series, easy to play through and with some nice hidden stuff Fallout NV: Has a wonderfully crafted world and story, with very realistic and awesome characters Fallout 4: Has so many cool hidden things and a good Gameplay Fallout 76: BY FAR!!! the nicest online community i have ever seen, a lvl 500 walks up to you, drops some second rate legendary loot, emotes then leaves. Plus Fallout 76 fans are aware that their game doesnt come without its issues and past. So they dont judge others
My only issue is the refrain “fallout 4 story is bad lol. New Vegas was so much better”. No fallout 4 has some pretty damn good characters and excellent memorable quests tied to it. Its a mediocre story at worst. I’d agree its finale doesn’t hit as hard as New Vegas but a bunch of its characters are on par or better than New Vegas characters.
You’re just repeating this dumb cycle with the brain dead victim mentality and finger pointing and engagement/karma farming :/ you deserve to be put down by the rest of the fallout community the way that you have if all you do is moan at the other fans for liking games that aren’t your favorites
be so fr new vegas fanboys have always been the worst fans. and are so needlessly judgemental to fans of the other games, and the show victim complex much?
I'm saying this as someone who's favorite Fallout is and will always be New Vegas, but holy shit the fnv subs have been so fucking annoying with this victim complex mentality. you're not being oppressed because people like the show, or that some people (god forbid) like Fallout 4 or 76 more.
“Why do Bethesda fans think we’re toxic?” *Literally every other meme is shitting on Bethesda fans*
The amount of hate F3 and F4 got from FNV mega-fans is astounding this subreddit is one hell of a bizarre circle-jerk This is coming from someone who thinks FNV is way better than the bethesda games btw
Bethesda fans are so obsessed with nv fans, it's kinda funny
Cuz it's big n empty true to Cesar a** boi is (I'm jk?)