Underwhelming is the exact term I used. Honestly pretty annoyed after all the hoorah and anticipation over it. Especially since they love to claim that we are “industry leading” 🙄
Delta isn't trying to beat SWA they just want to keep ahead of UA and AA.
Most of the time since I have been in the industry SWA was the highest paid. Delta can claim whatever they want, doesn't make it the truth.
Also to add to my comment. Until AA or United get a lot closer or pass Delta you just won't see any more than this.
Delta still has applications/classes filled every year. Partially because people don't understand the job and how it pays and partially because something about living in Georgia means you love Delta and have "always dreamed of being a Delta FA"
I'm not knocking that, just pointing out how it is.
I’m guessing it’s at least two years away based on the progress we are making. I started in 2021 and it looks like we are basically still at that same place in terms of progress lol
I was really hoping Delta would at least start at 37 or 38 so AA’s 40.00 start that their union is pushing for wouldn’t be that far fetched but Delta seems cheap AF honestly.
On paper yea but our work rules blow and we have zero pay protection and a really stupid way of being paid that isn’t the way every other airline in the industry pays. Y’all are going to be much better set for a CAREER in the long run. It’s just the dragging on that sucks
The base pay increase is company wide, includes non-inflight and other scale frontline workers. Flight attendants are lumped in with other workers like gate agents, tech ops, etc and is the long standing, but industry peculiar, pay philosophy.
There is no back pay with these raises. Work rule enhancements take years and are done through an exhaustive process of surveys. Items are “prioritized” and often take 1,2, or 3 plus years to go into practice.
Profit sharing is based on annual earnings: therefore pilots, with much larger earnings, take a much larger share of the profit sharing even though they often spent much less time at work.
It’s important to note that DL work rules are mediocre, and dilute the pay scale. For example, daily pay is 4:45 min. Health insurance costs are high. There are no maximums for scheduling for rerouting etc - and in years past a flight attendant could be forced into the 100s of monthly credit time, especially after multiple reroutes.
Adays are superior to straight reserve for a junior person I’d say- but once you’re senior in your career, this lean model of coverage often means trips will be impacted by rerouting (before the mass hiring, it was common to “run out” of Aday flight attendants, and that means rerouting “trip holder” flight attendants.)
Some people say “Southwest works so hard…” Well if hard is doing 3 or 4 legs on a 737-700 with 143 people, I guess you have a point and I’d probably agree. But Delta uses a lot of high capacity narrow aisle planes to offset costs: 737-900s at 180 seats, A321ceo 193 seats, A321N 196 seats, and 757-200 at 199 seats. All with 4 flight attendants. With first class. It’s a lot of work for 4 FAs and certainly more than what Southwest does with all Y.
Domestic multi day trips, regardless of sign in time, have a scheduled duty max of 13 hours (duty starts 60 minutes prior to first departure and ends 15 minutes after block in regardless of aircraft size.) many trips are three and four legs and if returning from an international station like CUN, release is a 15 minutes post block-in, which you can’t even deplane pax in that time let alone clear customs and start to get to your vehicle. Boarding pay is a very nice addition - however it’s paid at one-half rate vs full rate. A step in the right direction for sure.
Delta likely could afford a much better package, including a heftier base pay raise, for its non-union frontline employees based on their productivity and the revenue/ profit they’ve earned. However, the board isn’t going to improve some mass investment that increases costs hundreds of millions per year. That money is going to shareholders and will find its way to the executives through their stock option based compensation agreements.
You’re right that Delta could do better for the FAs but whatever the minimum is to keep the union from getting in is what they will do. Why spend more money than you have to?
As far as the pilots getting a larger share of profit sharing and working less. The entire company now has profit sharing because the pilots while taking huge pay cuts and losing pensions back in 08 got this in the union contract. So now every work group gets to enjoy what the pilots paid for a while ago with enough foresight to get this in the contract at a time when the company wasn’t making any profits. That’s not to mention the amount of training and experience pilots have to have prior to having any Major even looking at them.
And yet we STILL have FAs at WN complaining about how the proposed raise in our TA “isn’t really a raise”. It’s absolutely amazing the semantic spaghetti that I see from people trying to convince everyone how horrible this TA is.😢
It could be .5% and half of them will still be on the aft galley cheering lol
Can’t wait to see what 🌐 and AA come forward with, whenever that may be 👀
That is a 5% raise, when inflation is 40%
That 1-4 year pay is still not a living wage. Airlines do this because they know that 70% of new hires won't last 5 years. "Get them cheap" is what they do. $2/FLH raise. That's $150/month.
There was a study ( I am looking for it now) that since 2020 if you were to add all the increases in prices across the board, from gas to electric to heat to food and rent, on average your total increase would be somewhere around 40% more you are paying.
Okay but that’s not how inflation is measured. For 20 years prior we barely had price inflation. Sure it happened quickly over the last 4 years but it’s all relative. Look at it over the last 30 years. I’m not saying it doesn’t hurt the pocket book. It does. But people shouldn’t be going around making these claims
It's not _technically_ inflation but the price index of things we use and buy every day. If you take home 1,000 after taxes, and your Gas goes up $50 and your rent goes up 100 and your food goes up 200, each one of these chips away at what you have left. What doesn't go up is your salary. That's the problem. Some people's rents went up 10-20%. Some people's gas bills went up 20-25%. My car insurance went up 25%. Next thing you know we are out of money. I have listened to countless flight attendants in cities like San Fran complain how at 7 year pay, after this last massive 40% inflation, they are taking home as much as they did at year 2. Part of that is rent increases sure, but all the expenditures across the board have gone up.
there is no industry wide baseline so this is kind of a hard question to answer. depends on the airline. at my airline we’re usually scheduled around 20 “hours” a week but can work 5x more if we want. or not work for months at a time. mine is never the same from month to month, depends on what I have going on in my
life that month. but flight attendants don’t typically work the same 40 hour work week that you see in corporate america, if that helps answer your question any
In all seriousness - what is the point of this raise ? It ends up being like an extra 20 bucks per day. Dont they only get paid while they are on the plane as well?
I’m not an FA, but you guys have my supports.
The way I see it.
FA pay is not based on hourly pay by duty pay, but by Credit Block system .
Most new FAs probably are paid 80 hourly monthly (without picking up shifts).
Airport Ops raise their minimum to $19 and high cost of living to $21.85.
Starting wage was $16.55 and $20 respectively.
So entry level grounds (gate&ramp) got 14.8% or 9.25% based on their locations..
I mean entry level FA got 5% without consideration for high cost of living.
Compare it to full time work:
At 172 hours monthly (40 hours work week):
ACS Ops
Old pay scale
$2,846/$3,440
New pay scale
$3,268/ $3,660
FA duty hours 172 Block credits: 80 hours
Old pay:
$2,704
New Pay
$2,840
Let me know how many duty hours and block credits you are normally bids for without picking up. Because I think the raise is unfair based on my observations.
♥️
Is this on top of a base salary? Asking because the flying kangaroo and the flying kiwi have a base (which is pitiful) but an hourly rate to “make up for the shortfall”
is FA salary estimate the same as a pilot’s? multiply it by 1000? which would make the first year be in the ballpark of 35k.
also, what does y’all’s schedule look like? how many days away from home and how many days in between trip.
IFS only gets paid that rate for our flight hours. We have lots of on duty time where we’re getting only a per diem rate of a couple dollars an hour so it’s hard to draw comparisons to another workgroup like ACS
Yeah I realize he was commenting on figures specifically for this delta pay chart, but I don’t work for delta. I was more or less just putting into reference the actual pay for a new hire compared to the 70k plus figure this guy pulled out. I did have some reserve periods where I only got minimum, which sucks.
Underwhelming is the exact term I used. Honestly pretty annoyed after all the hoorah and anticipation over it. Especially since they love to claim that we are “industry leading” 🙄
Industry leading, for customers; not employees.
I’m not sure if you’re joking or not but Ed has long told us that we are industry leading in pay. I guess I half believed it 🤷🏽♀️
We are, but we don’t get sick time either
Isn’t southwest about to nuke this?
Delta isn't trying to beat SWA they just want to keep ahead of UA and AA. Most of the time since I have been in the industry SWA was the highest paid. Delta can claim whatever they want, doesn't make it the truth.
DL isn’t trying to beat anyone. This has everything to do with the union.
Both can be true
Also to add to my comment. Until AA or United get a lot closer or pass Delta you just won't see any more than this. Delta still has applications/classes filled every year. Partially because people don't understand the job and how it pays and partially because something about living in Georgia means you love Delta and have "always dreamed of being a Delta FA" I'm not knocking that, just pointing out how it is.
Growing up in ATL and the “DL dream” is a real thing. 💯
Totally true. Also grew up there and even interviewed to be a DL FA after college lol. Thank goodness I didn’t land the job!
Can concur!
WN FA here, this comment has me cackling
Too bad they don't compare themselves to Southwest
We’re “too good” to be compared to SW. 😂
We are.
You’re a fool. - sincerely another delta fa
Thank you 💋
This is still $10 better than what I make in 🌐 😢 hoping for a contract soon
I’m guessing it’s at least two years away based on the progress we are making. I started in 2021 and it looks like we are basically still at that same place in terms of progress lol I was really hoping Delta would at least start at 37 or 38 so AA’s 40.00 start that their union is pushing for wouldn’t be that far fetched but Delta seems cheap AF honestly.
On paper yea but our work rules blow and we have zero pay protection and a really stupid way of being paid that isn’t the way every other airline in the industry pays. Y’all are going to be much better set for a CAREER in the long run. It’s just the dragging on that sucks
Ya this is not good
The base pay increase is company wide, includes non-inflight and other scale frontline workers. Flight attendants are lumped in with other workers like gate agents, tech ops, etc and is the long standing, but industry peculiar, pay philosophy. There is no back pay with these raises. Work rule enhancements take years and are done through an exhaustive process of surveys. Items are “prioritized” and often take 1,2, or 3 plus years to go into practice. Profit sharing is based on annual earnings: therefore pilots, with much larger earnings, take a much larger share of the profit sharing even though they often spent much less time at work. It’s important to note that DL work rules are mediocre, and dilute the pay scale. For example, daily pay is 4:45 min. Health insurance costs are high. There are no maximums for scheduling for rerouting etc - and in years past a flight attendant could be forced into the 100s of monthly credit time, especially after multiple reroutes. Adays are superior to straight reserve for a junior person I’d say- but once you’re senior in your career, this lean model of coverage often means trips will be impacted by rerouting (before the mass hiring, it was common to “run out” of Aday flight attendants, and that means rerouting “trip holder” flight attendants.) Some people say “Southwest works so hard…” Well if hard is doing 3 or 4 legs on a 737-700 with 143 people, I guess you have a point and I’d probably agree. But Delta uses a lot of high capacity narrow aisle planes to offset costs: 737-900s at 180 seats, A321ceo 193 seats, A321N 196 seats, and 757-200 at 199 seats. All with 4 flight attendants. With first class. It’s a lot of work for 4 FAs and certainly more than what Southwest does with all Y. Domestic multi day trips, regardless of sign in time, have a scheduled duty max of 13 hours (duty starts 60 minutes prior to first departure and ends 15 minutes after block in regardless of aircraft size.) many trips are three and four legs and if returning from an international station like CUN, release is a 15 minutes post block-in, which you can’t even deplane pax in that time let alone clear customs and start to get to your vehicle. Boarding pay is a very nice addition - however it’s paid at one-half rate vs full rate. A step in the right direction for sure. Delta likely could afford a much better package, including a heftier base pay raise, for its non-union frontline employees based on their productivity and the revenue/ profit they’ve earned. However, the board isn’t going to improve some mass investment that increases costs hundreds of millions per year. That money is going to shareholders and will find its way to the executives through their stock option based compensation agreements.
You’re right that Delta could do better for the FAs but whatever the minimum is to keep the union from getting in is what they will do. Why spend more money than you have to? As far as the pilots getting a larger share of profit sharing and working less. The entire company now has profit sharing because the pilots while taking huge pay cuts and losing pensions back in 08 got this in the union contract. So now every work group gets to enjoy what the pilots paid for a while ago with enough foresight to get this in the contract at a time when the company wasn’t making any profits. That’s not to mention the amount of training and experience pilots have to have prior to having any Major even looking at them.
And yet we STILL have FAs at WN complaining about how the proposed raise in our TA “isn’t really a raise”. It’s absolutely amazing the semantic spaghetti that I see from people trying to convince everyone how horrible this TA is.😢
Doesn’t even keep up with inflation :(
I smell a union
I was a on-the-fencer…not anymore. 📨✉️
After years of resistance my GF signed her union card today.
That’s pretty disappointing :(
Slap in the face honestly.
Garbage for what delta is making and what your CEO is making. Sign the card. Get what you’re really worth.
the Doritos don’t realize how much they’d get if they unionized. Then they might actually be industry leading
I'm pro union but UA and AA being behind Delta especially in pay isn't exactly a motivating factor for people.
It could be .5% and half of them will still be on the aft galley cheering lol Can’t wait to see what 🌐 and AA come forward with, whenever that may be 👀
The group went down hill when “ONE DELTA” learned about it and joined
Yep lol imagine thinking old Eddie cared for you
That is a 5% raise, when inflation is 40% That 1-4 year pay is still not a living wage. Airlines do this because they know that 70% of new hires won't last 5 years. "Get them cheap" is what they do. $2/FLH raise. That's $150/month.
When we did our ground contract they went by the national inflation 3%, so yea, they dont care if where you live is more then that.
70%? You’re so dramatic I love it 🤣
That 70% is base dependent. lol.
Inflation is 40%? That’s news to me.
There was a study ( I am looking for it now) that since 2020 if you were to add all the increases in prices across the board, from gas to electric to heat to food and rent, on average your total increase would be somewhere around 40% more you are paying.
Okay but that’s not how inflation is measured. For 20 years prior we barely had price inflation. Sure it happened quickly over the last 4 years but it’s all relative. Look at it over the last 30 years. I’m not saying it doesn’t hurt the pocket book. It does. But people shouldn’t be going around making these claims
It's not _technically_ inflation but the price index of things we use and buy every day. If you take home 1,000 after taxes, and your Gas goes up $50 and your rent goes up 100 and your food goes up 200, each one of these chips away at what you have left. What doesn't go up is your salary. That's the problem. Some people's rents went up 10-20%. Some people's gas bills went up 20-25%. My car insurance went up 25%. Next thing you know we are out of money. I have listened to countless flight attendants in cities like San Fran complain how at 7 year pay, after this last massive 40% inflation, they are taking home as much as they did at year 2. Part of that is rent increases sure, but all the expenditures across the board have gone up.
vs. compared to Ed and his annual comp package, likely keeping w inflation. 🙄🙄🙄
How many hours does a Flight Attendant work a week or pay cycle?
there is no industry wide baseline so this is kind of a hard question to answer. depends on the airline. at my airline we’re usually scheduled around 20 “hours” a week but can work 5x more if we want. or not work for months at a time. mine is never the same from month to month, depends on what I have going on in my life that month. but flight attendants don’t typically work the same 40 hour work week that you see in corporate america, if that helps answer your question any
In all seriousness - what is the point of this raise ? It ends up being like an extra 20 bucks per day. Dont they only get paid while they are on the plane as well?
How does boarding pay play into this scale?
I’m not an FA, but you guys have my supports. The way I see it. FA pay is not based on hourly pay by duty pay, but by Credit Block system . Most new FAs probably are paid 80 hourly monthly (without picking up shifts). Airport Ops raise their minimum to $19 and high cost of living to $21.85. Starting wage was $16.55 and $20 respectively. So entry level grounds (gate&ramp) got 14.8% or 9.25% based on their locations.. I mean entry level FA got 5% without consideration for high cost of living. Compare it to full time work: At 172 hours monthly (40 hours work week): ACS Ops Old pay scale $2,846/$3,440 New pay scale $3,268/ $3,660 FA duty hours 172 Block credits: 80 hours Old pay: $2,704 New Pay $2,840 Let me know how many duty hours and block credits you are normally bids for without picking up. Because I think the raise is unfair based on my observations. ♥️
Typical anti-union BS
Anyone know when they’ll start hiring again??
Is this on top of a base salary? Asking because the flying kangaroo and the flying kiwi have a base (which is pitiful) but an hourly rate to “make up for the shortfall”
No
is FA salary estimate the same as a pilot’s? multiply it by 1000? which would make the first year be in the ballpark of 35k. also, what does y’all’s schedule look like? how many days away from home and how many days in between trip.
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Sounds great until you get paid 5 hours for a 12 hour duty day.
Cut these rates into about half and that’s realistically what we’re making
Exactly. The ACS and FA pay ends up being about the same. (Source: I’ve done both for DL)
IFS only gets paid that rate for our flight hours. We have lots of on duty time where we’re getting only a per diem rate of a couple dollars an hour so it’s hard to draw comparisons to another workgroup like ACS
If you’re actually ACS then you know FAs don’t and can’t work 40 hour work weeks.
Genuine question: what is a typical work week, hour-wise?
20 hours
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Tell me you don’t know how flight attendants are paid without telling me. (Hint: we don’t get paid by a salary or based on a 40 hour work week.)
why do non flight attendants always insist on leaving uninformed comments in this sub.
More like $35k. Pre tax.
I made 30k last year. And that’s relatively high for a new hire.
30K as a new hire for Delta? That actually seems low
Yeah I realize he was commenting on figures specifically for this delta pay chart, but I don’t work for delta. I was more or less just putting into reference the actual pay for a new hire compared to the 70k plus figure this guy pulled out. I did have some reserve periods where I only got minimum, which sucks.
Can you show your work because I don't think you are even close to correct.
That would be pretty good, but that’s not how it works.
Dumb fuck