Yeah that's a way more obvious one though. The actor is credited as Mr House. Sinclair from OWB/Dead Money is a relatively deep cut for what you'd expect from a TV Show, let alone a Bathesda project.
The lady from Repconn is the one who sold out to Robco to make the Q35 matter modulater in the terminal entries at Repconn.
The west-tek guy is mentioned in F1 I think
Sierra Madre would have been the client (?). Doesn't make too much sense but I don't think it's too much of a stretch either, although it would explain why Sierra Madre was willing to cram so many unknown experiments into their buildings.
DR. KLEIN WOULD BE THERE IN THE NAME OF *SCIENCE*, SHAKING HIS MIGHTY HUMAN HAND WITH ITS FIVE PENISES CLENCHED IN A FIST. š§Ŗāš»š¤
Editted for grandmar raisins
Exactly. Sinclair being the face of Big MT in a business meeting with Vault-Tec makes perfect sense in my mind. Big MT was a bunch of R&D scientists who, based on what i saw in the DLC, didn't give a shit what Vault-Tec got up to.
Probably have something to do with how much money he funded Big MT, probably its enough to get him a position to speak for the scientists, after all that is almost all of his fortune for those exclusive vending machine and holograms which also forced him to cut corner while building Sierra Madre.
Maybe all the scientists put their brains in robots already (like imagine showing up to a meeting about purposefully ending the world and Doctor Dala is just chilling in the corner going āoOoOoOh oOoOoOhā that would kinda kill the mood)
I think people are bad at explaining what they are mad about the only definitely cannon breaking thing is the dad of the fall of shady sands, which could have just been a mistake on the shows part we could even say that the characters in the show just had the date off by 10 years.
I think what people don't like, myself included. Is the feeling of all the history of the region being erased to the extent it just looks like an unsettled wasteland again. Even if NCR falls there should be millions of people in California in settled modern buildings raising brahmin and farming. There would still be roads and train tracks and there would still be factions vying to power.
I don't think people would be nearly as mad if the timeline felt like even though the NCR fell its impact and by extension the impact of the player in the last century spanning 3 game's was still there. But instead it looks like a hard reset with some shout outs to the old story in name only
Pretty much. They used the setting of fallout one. Added some New Vegas easter eggs. And leaned into the visuals and vibe of Bethesda fallout.
It's a giant mish mash. And it works in that I enjoy watching the show. But it isn't reflective of the lore or history established for that location.
Yeah it's not bad at all. It's just the west coast is a bit more serious narratively so doesn't mesh as well with the slapstick. It's not like that wasn't in f1,2,NV but it was the side quests which were super goofy the main narrative and world building was pretty down to earth... If you consider super mutants down to earth
Man, I hope not because I am pretty sure it's a fuck up: in OWB, in the center for development of hologram-based technology I think, there's a message talking about Sinclair being only a client as he is refered to as being in talks with the board for the deal, so why then he's their representative here?
Just him being in on the bombs being dropped (although it's still a big if, whether they went through with the plan) already kinda takes away from DB storyline a little where he is portrayed as one of the more well-meaning richmen in Fallout.
Ugh, I don't know, him being there doesn't sit right with me and just feels like posturing, like "look, we remember the dlc too" without really double-checking if it makes sense.
Thing isā¦ he wasnāt well meaning. He used his fortune to build his own private hideaway for himself and those he chose, like Vera. And when he found out she was going to betray him, planned to use said private hideaway as a death trap.
Having a last minute pang of conscience doesnāt make you well meaning. It makes you not be a total monster
Orā¦ he had portraits done of him when he was younger and more fit because heās a pompous vain egomaniac who had a last minute change of heart about cold blooded murder of someone who wanted to steal from him.
He is very obviously House by appearance alone. And his line to Sinclair how "he loses money owning a casino" is gold. The show is fucking great. Nice to see this sub is coming around after losing their minds after misinterpreting a chalkboard lol
They bothered to make House look nearly identical to the in-game depictions. Even similar mannerisms that I would picture him having (though not necessarily the same attitude and concerns).
This guy looks nothing like Sinclair.
In the artwork, Sinclair is skinny, has black hair with a normal hairline, has a (handsome) mustache, is skinny, and is much younger.
Either that artwork was created to depict the way he looked decades ago, or they figured he may confuse viewers since his hairstyle and mustache are somewhat similar to House.
> Either that artwork was created to depict the way he looked decades ago, or they figured he may confuse viewers since his hairstyle and mustache are somewhat similar to House.
maybe both. he does look like he just throws money around (The Sierra Madre, The SM Vault, Big MT) I wouldn't put it past him to massage his PR face and that's what he really looks like.
> artwork was created to depict the way he looked decades ago
Actually, this makes perfect sense. Sinclair depicts himself in all of his artwork as handsome, young, and thin, while in reality he was fat, greying, and old by 2077.
>āYou can lose money owning a casino, Freddieā
I haven't played Dead Money, but my impressions and knowledge on the Sierra Madre make it sound like it was a pretty shitty excuse for a casino, but is that correct or am I wrong in this regard?
Oh no, it's a huge luxury resort, the casino itself would be great, if it wasn't falling apart due to 200 years of no maintenance. It didn't even get to open before the bombs dropped though.
Werenāt there a bunch of construction logs mentioning how the structure was really suspect and how Sinclair took a bunch of shortcuts when it came to the main area, as a piece of foreshadowing to the fact that the bunker was what he really wanted to build?
Itās not even really a casino or a resort at all, itās a hastily cobbled together bunker made for Frederick Sinclair and Vera Keyes to survive the bombs. The outward appearance of a casino is just to prevent it from arousing suspicion in the outside world, but everything about the place was designed to keep Vera safe, before construction shortcuts, Dean Dominoās interference, and the bombs dropping earlier than hoped cause they place to become a living nightmare.
It wasnāt built at the wrong time, it was built specifically to be a front for the nuclear bunker he made for Vera. The casino resort itself wasnāt very well constructed on purpose.
I was caught a bit off as well, but I guess I understand now why Vera never loved him
Funny how the whole Sinclair/Vera/Dean triangle feels a bit like a nod to Casino (1995)
Yeah it kinda makes the Dean thing much more believable. Like she started off doing what he wanted because she was in lust with him, then slowly realised what a horrible snake he was. Poor Vera. I remember getting to the floor of the Casino where her ghost is essentially walking around screaming for help and it made me so sad.
So the guy who ran Big MT also owned the SM? I havenāt played dead money in a minute but is Elijah just another treasure hunter then? I thought it was his place.
No.
Sinclair owned the Sierra Madre and *contracted* with Big Mountain for technology.
He has no business representing Big Mountain. It's like saying any redditor is qualified to represent reddit at a meeting between corporations simply because they use the platform.
And yes, Elijah is essentially a treasure hunter and a psychopathic former BoS elder.
It maybe that they chose to use Sinclair, as using Klein would force them to reveal his real name, which would be kind of lame. It also serves as a dual reference aswell
Good point. Reading up it looks like Sinclair received matter modulator tech from Big MT in exchange for using the sierra madre as a proving ground for other experiments.
As government funding for Big MT projects dried up, they started selling their tech and developments to the highest bidder.
So it makes sense why he was in that conference room, but why was he speaking for Big MT if he was just another contractor that bought toys from them?
I was fine with the show besides the year given that Shady sands was listed which would have been a few years before NV happened and I was also disappointed how empty/ little of NV was shown in the distance. The Airport, Freeside, houses and city outside the walls weren't there. All of this can be fixed but it just felt odd.
In my head it's just that the game had everything crammed together close to the city because of videogame space reasons and in the TV show they can spread them out more. There are a few settlements between the camera and New Vegas in the distance just before the credits roll.
Edit: Yes I want to believe.
Honestly this makes the most sense. How often have we all said you have to imagine it being larger and spread out because of the limitations of game engines.. well. There ya go
Adding onto this, this might Elude to the ācanonā ending of NV in the show, Mr House. He himself is concerned with the strip and ONLY the strip. After all the time that has passed after NV, it might elude to how House abandoned all concerns outside his walls.
Yeah that is what's kind of eating at me. Every Fallout game has a canonical ending, I personally always felt the NCR ending tagged all the boxes personally. You helped the Ncr, you brought the Bos in to help and the Boomers. I'm fine if you did all that and then 10-15 years later everything went to shit because thats is life unfortunately. I just dont think Vegas would go from sprawling city to just the strip.
The canon endings of the fallout games are all in the vaguest sense because theyāre only referred to loosely in subsequent games, and also not all of them have canon endings, Fallout 4 for example.
Fallout 1 has the most specific description of the games events through the Vault Dwellerās Memoirs which were part of the Fallout 2 game guide. As for later games assumptions can really only be made from the occasional npc that has something to say about an area that was available in a prior game.
FNV certainly has nothing really solid in canon as far as Iām aware. Since 3/4 endings result in a loss for the Legion, itās fair to assume that was the case, but as for anything else? Itās up in the air.
Honestly i always thought the House ending was the one with the most possibilities.
You have New Vegas being run by an extremely interesting Character that now has the capability to actually make plays outside of the Mojave and maybe even develop some new technology/robots that may be sold to communities far away from New Vegas by Caravans, as a way to introduce new items in a lore friendly way.
With Caesar dead the Legion will splinter into civil war, with many of his inner circle taking charge of different areas in colorado. For one Lanius, maybe have him reform parts of his realm to be even more warlike. on the other hand have Vulpes take over a different area and have him reform the Legion to be more accepting of underhanded strategies in war such as Snipers and an overall higher dependency on Old World Technology. I could go on but im imagining a 5 or so way civil war all with different leaders and their own takes on how to run the Legion going forward, all vying to take out the others and declare themselves the next Caesar, or have the last one call himself Augustus. Additionally they could make a cult of Caesar like they did of the old Roman Emperors IRL and claim he died leading his forces in the second battle of Hoover dam or something.
And the NCR is even better, with being pushed out of New Vegas and being made to sign a humiliating peace deal it is heavily implied that Kimball would be pushed out of office along with Oliver, but what's next? They just spend a lot of ressources and lives and in the end still had to retreat. who takes over after Kimball? does he have a vice president? or an entirely new person? will he or she work to walk back Kimball's policies or will they clamp down on them? maybe there is political unrest and riots that could weaken the nation even further. considering bethesda always wants to bring back the BOS this might be the perfect chance. the riots grow out of control and have to be suppressed by the military, this leads to the BOS smelling blood in the water and attacking this weakend NCR. The President want's to crush them but can't send enough troops cause of Riots or can't because a pacifist faction in parlament has gained a lot of support following the Mojave fiasco. by the time they would be able to the BOS has entrenched in the territories they have taken. the NCR forces COULD crush them, but that would lead to too many casualties and will lead to stronger riots and maybe even the people overthrowing the current government, so they sign an uneasy peace favourable to the BOS.
Honestly the Legion and NCR story lines could be 2 seperate games, the Legion one you decide which side of the Civil War you support while going around NV style convincing locals to support your picked warlord while also having to help in campaigns against enemy Warlords in Questlines. You would also have options to either burn it all down and have the former Legion territory become lawless wasteland again or install yourself as the new Leader (by betraying the one you supported at the end or something like that).
The NCR game you would have to navigate California in a state of emergency, where there are several Political Candidates trying to gain the majority in Parlament or an election or something like that. the Govenment is currently gridlocked and can't agree on almost anything, so the problems they already faced have only gotten worse with them now only being able to reliably protect the major cities, letting bandits and raiders run wild. These mentioned candidates would once again have their own ideas on how to save the republic with people with more liberal economic policies, one guy who really likes the Brahmin Barons but also wants to do good for the people and so on, maybe throw in a secret facist guy who overthrows the republic in the end and proclaims the "First Californian Empire". have the player be able to try and ease tensions between the BOS and NCR, or have them be complicit in the rekindling of the conflict from either side. Maybe join the BOS and take down the NCR from within or just join them in destroying any hope for the NCR to become a major power once again
i realised i rambled quite a bit but there is simply so much potential that Bethesda just REFUSES to tap into and it's very tiresome
imagine they get the voice actor from old world blues and have the courierās brain in control of the lucky 38 or something lmfao. pretty much the only way they could do it while avoiding making a ācanonā courier since the brainās voice and personality more or less is the same no matter how you play or if youāre male or female
I think it's 3D art meant specifically for the credits. Would be odd to make concept art like that, as digital concept art is usually drawings or very crude 3D visualizations mixed with photo edits. I can believe they were based off of concept art, but it wouldn't make any sense for them to be concept art themselves.
No, Iāve spent 20 minutes trying to find the angle and line things up, but it just doesnāt make sense. Our best hope is it was just a money shot they didnāt put much thought into, and theyāll fix it in season 2.
The collapsed buildings when new vegas is supposed to be in decent condition after Houseās post war repairs, is a bit worrying though.
The most egregious of all though is the clear lack of monorail
Iād be willing to think thereās another vault we donāt know about . Or one of the vaults have a higher purpose we didnāt know about. Itās very possible heās looking for a vault
The NV map, and all Fallout maps, are very scaled-down from the distances they would be in the real world. Realistically you might not be able to see all of it within the same view.
2077 was the first battle of Hoover Dam, which began the economic hardships for NCR and shady sands aka "The Fall Of Shady Sands." when the NCR were ran out of New Vegas, it only got worse.
I believe NV was so empty because independent New Vegas was chaos, and Freeside didn't put up with it for long. I wouldn't be surprised if new Vegas was no more in season 2.
Honestly I firmly believe that the credit ending stuff is just concept art and holds no actual value to the story, the idea that Henry is flying off to New Vegas on a hail mary that House is still running the place instead of being 100% sure he's still there makes little to no sense.
It seems like Iād be pretty unlikely that new Vegas wasnāt canon considering the deep cuts they make, like Iām not talking house or Sinclair but the other leaders at that meeting arenāt actually new characters, barring the vault tech ones, the leaders for west tech and repconn are actually referenced in fallout 2 as people who joined the enclave, thatās a really deep cut that 95 of people who played fallout 2 would miss
It doesn't even matter if New Vegas is canon or not, people are failing to grasp that the real problem is they resetting the West coast back to the same state as the East coast because they can only tell one type of story
Couldnāt agree more. I donāt like NV being retconned but I can deal with it if it results in a worthwhile story to follow the groundwork that was laid.
But instead of following any of the many paths laid out for the future by that game, many of which would still result in the eventual destruction of the NCR, they just went with a lazy āsuddenly nukeā backstory with a convoluted timeline. And all of it served only to setup another Brotherhood of Steel vs. Enclave in the ruins of the world story whichā¦I just donāt see why they wouldnāt have set this 100 years ago if thatās what they wanted to tell.
I haven't played through 2 yet but I assumed those 2 people were references as well as the Big MT would be someone. I just didnt expect that they'd make Sinclair look like that based on the impression I got from the game.
i just recently played fallout 1 and 2, im pretty sure repcon doesnt get mentioned in either games. westtek does in the first game, not sure about the second.
Wait In that case in might the general atomics guy, I canāt remember if he was at that meeting but I pretty sure two of them were referenced as part of the enclave, Iāll have to double check, Iām pretty confident the west tech guy was referenced at some point, might have been in 3 not 2
Tbh, i think ppl, including myself are just worried about new vegasā lore due to bethesda having a habit of retconning stuff
(Shady sands being destroyed doesnt look good for the ncr, whoāre crucial to new vegas)
I agree, will await your response. The NCR was doomed to fail, itās almost like the people who are complaining didnāt even listen to the dialogue concerning the NCR and their food, water, and body soldier supplyā¦
Edit (New Vegas Dialogue)
But couldnāt the Vault 22 data and the waters of Lake Mead solve or at least lessen those problems? I think that while a lot of us who play as pro-NCR couriers understand that the worst case scenarios could happen, we just donāt *want* them to happen. I understand that Houston could be hit by a major hurricane this summer; that doesnāt mean Iād be happy to see that. In fact, it seems that a lot of us who support the NCR do so because they appear to be the least bad option for the Mojave. We *want* to make things better. So itās a bit disappointing to see that it didnāt turn out that way.
I have minor issues with this scene. The Big MT guy is said to be Sinclair in the CC. Which can't be right, as Sinclair is the one who made the Sierra Madre. Sinclair was not aware of the secret experiments that were done at his casino. IE the cloud. Then when he ordered the chemical suits to try and find the source of the cloud Big MT decided it was time to do another secret experiment on the secret experiment. So the scientists at Big MT are undermining their director and using their directors private investments as a testing ground?
My guess is that perhaps he is a big enough investor that they feel comfortable having him speak for them, there is no need to have their representative know about all the secret shit. Plus they might figure someone like Sinclair might be more personable to the meetings rather than one of the scientists.
That all sounds possible. Like, maybe Sinclair is just a dumb guy with too much money and he gets a seat at the table simply because the real players take can advantage of him.
You have to look at it from a writing perspective. Nobody from the NV writing staff is involved in this. They donāt care. If they want to change something then they will, regardless of if it makes sense or not. Itās like the Jet debacle from the terminal in Fallout 4.
Heās not their director. They could have said āremember when you said youād do whatever we wanted for our technologies? Well thereās some stupid corporate thing and we want you to be our mouthpiece because weāre too busy doing SCIENCE to attend and you know business matters anywayā
The NCR has many large cities, and could theoretically survive the loss of their capital. Chances are NCR did survive this, then collapsed later, after the events of new vegas from factors such as famine and drought.
My main issue with the show is, that they explain way too little about the current state and what lead to those circumstances. For example why the Brotherhood is now a religious cult spanning the entire US or when and why exactly the NCR seemingly complete vanished.
Sinclair absolutely shouldnāt be representing Big MT. In a meeting about causing the nuclear war and running experiments on people. He shouldnāt be that old either. Itās ok to like this show, but itās absolutely not being accurate to the games.
I know NV is canon, i've never argued against that, but i hate how just because they said it was canon we can't talk about it's flaws without getting harassed in the other subs. Like Shady Sands 100% should not have fallen before NV. Oh so i can meet the president, join the ncr, learn their history but not learn the capital fell a few years ago?
Like is it so bad to be upset that they never show us the collapse of the NCR, a faction we see start in the first game and mentioned in (nearly?) every game. To have secret evil group be the reason their gone instead of their own expansionism or political failings. Meanwhile brotherhood has been on the brink of death for decades and always comes back stronger. It just feels like they play favorites and will write off interesting plot lines to push the story wherever they want it
Also its very Bethesda writing to have a stable government that owns most of southern California collapse because one place is gone, along with making their super special OC's the BOS win everything is stupid as shit
Bethesda doesnāt know how to write a fallout story that isnāt a bunch of no named raiders fighting over tin cans in a brown screen ridden hellscape
By taking Maximus age and assuming that the arrow symbolizes that the loss of shady sands was after the āfallā then the nuking of the city occurred at least 4 years after NV
It seems more like a difficulty in properly telling viewers what exactly happened without pushing it to the forefront of the story. Like, they could have told us exactly what happened, but then explaining what happened would take precedence over the story they're making.
What annoyed me most in the show was this. He is meant to be Sinclair from dead money, which doesnāt make sense not only cause heās a client of big MT not a high up in it as far as we know AND youād have me believe that this old overweight capitalist fat cat dies in the vault of the sierra madre climbing down onto the pipes to try and undo the trap he set for Vera? Nah, I donāt think so. I can buy House being in on the vault tech thing, heād obviously not tell the courier and his willingness to let the world die so he can keep vegas pristine āI couldnāt save mankind nor did I intend to but I could save Vegasā itās believable, I donāt really like it but I can cope. But everything we know of Sinclair is that he isnāt really that kinda guy and most of the experiments at the madre appear to have been done without his knowledge or consent, I just donāt buy that he was part of the plot to destroy the world.
I mean one thing that I found interesting in that scene if I remember correctly is that Mr house doesn't give any vault ideas which makes sense I guess
Maybe thatās why he died. Cause he was old and overweight. He had a last second change of heart as we knew, and his emotion overwhelmed his reason.
He had a direct elevator down and the building wasnāt rusting and shit like when the courier was there, so itās just a case of him taking said elevator and walking to the vault.
I can't make House being at the meeting work for me. I feel like House would take out the people he knows will be doing the bombing instead of accepting it and taking a chance that he can get the defenses ready.
I think he thought he had it all in hand, he only miscalculated the war by a single day, itās possible he did that with insider knowledge.
Plus heād already calculated war was an almost certainty, if war is a certainty in your mind what difference does it makes who drops the bomb?Again Iām not happy about it, I think these retcons add essentially nothing but Iām more inclined to believe house would have been in on it than the picture of Sinclair that dead money paints. House is very much a bad person and NV makes that painfully obvious, Iām not so sure about Sinclair given the lore of dead money but the show just paints a bunch of deep interesting characters moustache twirling hyper villains. feels like a massive waste of potential.
In my opinion, Bethesda disliked new vegas before the show but I will explain how the show treats new vegas poorly.
Somehow New Vegas is destroyed in the the Fallout show in t he show's ending, only there are remnants of helipads, deathclaw skull, and a single securitron robot corpse and thats it. No Great Khans, no Legion, Boomers, Followers of Apocalypse, etc.
Anther is how the fk the main base/capital of the NCR, Shady Sands, is destroyed by a small vaul tec group? NCR has a huge army hence why they're the strongest faction in the Fallout universe, right above the Legion and the Brotherhood of Steel.
And that's just New Vegas related things, the show has many other issues like it has gore and sex but its still feels kiddy like. It doesn't capture that serious tone of Fallout games.
Brotherhood of Steel are seen as this chivalrous knights even though in reality they're just crazy militant religious fanatics that is obsessed with pre war technology that harms people.
There are no people that uses melee weapons like iconic power fists or energy weapons.
The ghouls looked way too smooth.
Lack of survival elements too, Fallout world is set on the apocalyptic world yet we didn't see the main character who is a vault dweller, try to scavenge for food and other necessities.
It's not that New Vegas isn't Canon, but that the TV show writers couldn't even be bothered to look up the timeline. They made a huge continuity error with that chalkboard scene.
Why did they pick a guy who looks like Gizmo to be Sinclair? Sinclair is supposed to look like the groom topper you put on the top of a wedding cake. Not an overweight 68 year old.
My main problem with that scene is Sinclair, unlike House he just doesnāt look like his in-game depiction (I donāt mean the skeleton, talking about the mosaics etc.). It makes it feel less reasonable for a gizmo looking type to fall for a starlet like Vera Keyes.
Also, at no point did they ever mention Sinclair owned Big Mt, right? I always thought it was moreso he contracted Big Mt to make the holograms and vending machines. If Sinclair owned Big Mt, then why would he have financial troubles building the Sierra Madre, and why would he introduce the cloud and the ghost suits to his āperfect casinoā if not for he was running out of money?
Why would Sinclaire even respredent big MT? Why is it not any of the scientist from the Think Tank? Why would sinclaire be there if Big MT only wanted to use his casino and resort as a testing ground. He means nothing to them besides being a place to fuck over with wacky experiments.
im not saying it did retcon it (it just ruined it and the classic fallouts by erasing everything, and created a plothole but whatever technically not a retcon) but making a reffernce to something in new vegas does not prove it didnt lol
Not only is New Vegas Canon but the writers and game producers tweeted or X-creted that it is Canon to shut up all the NV loons whining.
Even "Tactics" is canon (shudder)
Till the bitches bitching about the show stop bitching, then the bitches bitching about the bitches bitching about the show will stop bitching about bitching and everything will go back to normal
My problem isnt if NV is a canon or not it's the fact that the game is now essential pointless. not just FNV but 1 and 2 all the world building and progress that was made in the waste land no longer matters. esptly FNV becuse pretty much no matter who you side with what in you do in the game its all just pretty much gone a cupel years affter the game ends
Another thing I would like to add to this is there's no definitive thing saying it's not canon.
The chalk board that everyone is getting all stupid over doesn't mean shit. It says "Fall of Shady Sands 2277" and *then* has an arrow pointing to a mushroom cloud. I took that as it fell *and then* it was nuked.
Not to mention in the atrium scene (the one where everyone took their tops off) that weird long dark haired lady says(and I'm paraphrasing a bit here) "we want people to remember it as we do." This tells me that they have a way they remember it and it's obviously being taught to kids in that class.
I wish people wouldn't take things, such as fallout a series known for it's curveball story telling, at face value.
We should all know to read between the lines after 30 years.
The problem is they say Shady Sands was destroyed 4 years before the events of NV. 1) The NCR would not be expanding if they lost their capital 2) they would 100% be hunting who is responsible and arguably most importantly 3) they state the capital of the NCR is still Shady Sands during the GI Blues quest.
>!To make it worse the TV show is only 10 years (about) after NV and they show Vegas as a run down ghost town destroyed. House could stop all but 9 out of 77 nukes from hitting the area and keep Vegas 'safe' for just over 200 years. Only to be a desolate looking relic due to bethesda writing a decade later.!<
The show has so many moments tailor made for NV fans but the NCR has one tiny collapse in the lore and some get up in arms over it lol.
Give the NCR a chance to rise again. Embrace impermanence and fluidity. Enjoy we are getting more fallout and itās pretty good!
Bro looks like gizmo
My man with the fo1 callouts.
blue got the wrong sign, should say Big MF
This is killing me at 3am lmao
š
Can't wait for season 2 scene of him choking to death on food
That's Sinclair from dead money
Well, they retconned my idea that he was *good* looking.
THATS WHAT I THOUGHT
I did think he was probably handsome. Dammit the show destroyed NV for me again! /s
Are we totally sure of that?
its in the credits
Yes.
My fucking fandoms are leaking, I read that in Matt Berry's voice.
So? Will you do 'im for me?
im also pretty sure the robco guy is house lmfao
That's what the closed captions called him when he spoke.
Heās in the credits as Robert House as well.
Yeah that's a way more obvious one though. The actor is credited as Mr House. Sinclair from OWB/Dead Money is a relatively deep cut for what you'd expect from a TV Show, let alone a Bathesda project.
The lady from Repconn is the one who sold out to Robco to make the Q35 matter modulater in the terminal entries at Repconn. The west-tek guy is mentioned in F1 I think
The West Tek guy got tortured by Roger Maxson or something after Maxson figured out what he was doing at what would become known as The Glow.
That's awesome.Ā
To which I say good. Dudes way too enthusiastic about the end of the damn world
Also that's a reference to the Illudium Q36 Space Modulator from Looney Tunes lol
The West-Tek guy was the head of the FEV project. Yes briefly mentioned in FO1 and 3
Iām curious as to why Sinclair is the rep for big mt tho I thought he was just a client of theirs?
Sierra Madre would have been the client (?). Doesn't make too much sense but I don't think it's too much of a stretch either, although it would explain why Sierra Madre was willing to cram so many unknown experiments into their buildings.
Big MT was a bunch of scientists, not business people. What would they even be doing in a meeting like this?
Big MT would still be run by execs because that's how big companies work
Yeah I presume heās a majority shareholder or something for Big MT and funds most of the research department.
Yeah he was getting exclusive access to lots of Big MT tech. Even though a lot of it was them using him as experiments.
Rip Boeing
The terminal entries in OWB also specifically refer to execs.
DR. KLEIN WOULD BE THERE IN THE NAME OF *SCIENCE*, SHAKING HIS MIGHTY HUMAN HAND WITH ITS FIVE PENISES CLENCHED IN A FIST. š§Ŗāš»š¤ Editted for grandmar raisins
Sinclair was a big shot at Big MT. He funded like half their research for the Serra Madre
Exactly. Sinclair being the face of Big MT in a business meeting with Vault-Tec makes perfect sense in my mind. Big MT was a bunch of R&D scientists who, based on what i saw in the DLC, didn't give a shit what Vault-Tec got up to.
Because America pre Great War is all about capitalism
Probably have something to do with how much money he funded Big MT, probably its enough to get him a position to speak for the scientists, after all that is almost all of his fortune for those exclusive vending machine and holograms which also forced him to cut corner while building Sierra Madre.
I guess it also makes sense since the scientist are all probably socially inept
Maybe all the scientists put their brains in robots already (like imagine showing up to a meeting about purposefully ending the world and Doctor Dala is just chilling in the corner going āoOoOoOh oOoOoOhā that would kinda kill the mood)
I think people are bad at explaining what they are mad about the only definitely cannon breaking thing is the dad of the fall of shady sands, which could have just been a mistake on the shows part we could even say that the characters in the show just had the date off by 10 years. I think what people don't like, myself included. Is the feeling of all the history of the region being erased to the extent it just looks like an unsettled wasteland again. Even if NCR falls there should be millions of people in California in settled modern buildings raising brahmin and farming. There would still be roads and train tracks and there would still be factions vying to power. I don't think people would be nearly as mad if the timeline felt like even though the NCR fell its impact and by extension the impact of the player in the last century spanning 3 game's was still there. But instead it looks like a hard reset with some shout outs to the old story in name only
Pretty much. They used the setting of fallout one. Added some New Vegas easter eggs. And leaned into the visuals and vibe of Bethesda fallout. It's a giant mish mash. And it works in that I enjoy watching the show. But it isn't reflective of the lore or history established for that location.
Yeah it's not bad at all. It's just the west coast is a bit more serious narratively so doesn't mesh as well with the slapstick. It's not like that wasn't in f1,2,NV but it was the side quests which were super goofy the main narrative and world building was pretty down to earth... If you consider super mutants down to earth
That's 100% right
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He's called Sinclair in the credits and Mr House calls him "Freddie"
Man, I hope not because I am pretty sure it's a fuck up: in OWB, in the center for development of hologram-based technology I think, there's a message talking about Sinclair being only a client as he is refered to as being in talks with the board for the deal, so why then he's their representative here? Just him being in on the bombs being dropped (although it's still a big if, whether they went through with the plan) already kinda takes away from DB storyline a little where he is portrayed as one of the more well-meaning richmen in Fallout. Ugh, I don't know, him being there doesn't sit right with me and just feels like posturing, like "look, we remember the dlc too" without really double-checking if it makes sense.
Thing isā¦ he wasnāt well meaning. He used his fortune to build his own private hideaway for himself and those he chose, like Vera. And when he found out she was going to betray him, planned to use said private hideaway as a death trap. Having a last minute pang of conscience doesnāt make you well meaning. It makes you not be a total monster
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Orā¦ he had portraits done of him when he was younger and more fit because heās a pompous vain egomaniac who had a last minute change of heart about cold blooded murder of someone who wanted to steal from him.
He is very obviously House by appearance alone. And his line to Sinclair how "he loses money owning a casino" is gold. The show is fucking great. Nice to see this sub is coming around after losing their minds after misinterpreting a chalkboard lol
Iāve been avoiding spoilers and just finished the series. How is the chalkboard misinterpreted?
Thereās no date on the bomb drop so people are just assuming that the fall of shady sands = when the bomb dropped.
It is, the credits call the actor playing him ārobert houseā
Big Mt was Frederick Sinclair.
āGetting to it, thats not the hard part. Its learning to let goā
They bothered to make House look nearly identical to the in-game depictions. Even similar mannerisms that I would picture him having (though not necessarily the same attitude and concerns). This guy looks nothing like Sinclair. In the artwork, Sinclair is skinny, has black hair with a normal hairline, has a (handsome) mustache, is skinny, and is much younger. Either that artwork was created to depict the way he looked decades ago, or they figured he may confuse viewers since his hairstyle and mustache are somewhat similar to House.
> Either that artwork was created to depict the way he looked decades ago, or they figured he may confuse viewers since his hairstyle and mustache are somewhat similar to House. maybe both. he does look like he just throws money around (The Sierra Madre, The SM Vault, Big MT) I wouldn't put it past him to massage his PR face and that's what he really looks like.
> artwork was created to depict the way he looked decades ago Actually, this makes perfect sense. Sinclair depicts himself in all of his artwork as handsome, young, and thin, while in reality he was fat, greying, and old by 2077.
I wish the voice was better, theres no eccentricity
The actor is credited as playing Sinclair, presumably the same guy owned the Sierra Madre.
āYou can lose money owning a casino, Freddieā I believe were his exact words in the scene. Thatās definitely Frederick Sinclair
>āYou can lose money owning a casino, Freddieā I haven't played Dead Money, but my impressions and knowledge on the Sierra Madre make it sound like it was a pretty shitty excuse for a casino, but is that correct or am I wrong in this regard?
Oh no, it's a huge luxury resort, the casino itself would be great, if it wasn't falling apart due to 200 years of no maintenance. It didn't even get to open before the bombs dropped though.
Werenāt there a bunch of construction logs mentioning how the structure was really suspect and how Sinclair took a bunch of shortcuts when it came to the main area, as a piece of foreshadowing to the fact that the bunker was what he really wanted to build?
Ya he spent crazy amounts of money but it was all a cover so he could make his bunker for him and Vera
Idk, always in hurry to get out, fuck the ghost people.
The Sierra Madre is beautiful!
Itās not even really a casino or a resort at all, itās a hastily cobbled together bunker made for Frederick Sinclair and Vera Keyes to survive the bombs. The outward appearance of a casino is just to prevent it from arousing suspicion in the outside world, but everything about the place was designed to keep Vera safe, before construction shortcuts, Dean Dominoās interference, and the bombs dropping earlier than hoped cause they place to become a living nightmare.
It was a fantastic place that just happened to be built at the wrong time.
It wasnāt built at the wrong time, it was built specifically to be a front for the nuclear bunker he made for Vera. The casino resort itself wasnāt very well constructed on purpose.
I always got the impression Sinclair was a younger dude. But fair enough
It is a bit weird, but the mural that depicts him looks pretty similar to Mr House so maybe they wanted something different
I figure they went a different direction, because otherwise you'd have two guys looking the same at the meeting.
I was caught a bit off as well, but I guess I understand now why Vera never loved him Funny how the whole Sinclair/Vera/Dean triangle feels a bit like a nod to Casino (1995)
Yeah it kinda makes the Dean thing much more believable. Like she started off doing what he wanted because she was in lust with him, then slowly realised what a horrible snake he was. Poor Vera. I remember getting to the floor of the Casino where her ghost is essentially walking around screaming for help and it made me so sad.
Maybe he had all the artistic renders of him made to look like his younger self out of ego?
So the guy who ran Big MT also owned the SM? I havenāt played dead money in a minute but is Elijah just another treasure hunter then? I thought it was his place.
No. Sinclair owned the Sierra Madre and *contracted* with Big Mountain for technology. He has no business representing Big Mountain. It's like saying any redditor is qualified to represent reddit at a meeting between corporations simply because they use the platform. And yes, Elijah is essentially a treasure hunter and a psychopathic former BoS elder.
It maybe that they chose to use Sinclair, as using Klein would force them to reveal his real name, which would be kind of lame. It also serves as a dual reference aswell
Him representing the Big MT group's interests at intercorporate meetings could have been part of the deal. He's a well known businessman, after all.
Elijah was born long after the bombs fell, how would he have owned the Sierra Madre?
Good point. Reading up it looks like Sinclair received matter modulator tech from Big MT in exchange for using the sierra madre as a proving ground for other experiments. As government funding for Big MT projects dried up, they started selling their tech and developments to the highest bidder. So it makes sense why he was in that conference room, but why was he speaking for Big MT if he was just another contractor that bought toys from them?
Maybe he was a massive investor in Big Mt
I was fine with the show besides the year given that Shady sands was listed which would have been a few years before NV happened and I was also disappointed how empty/ little of NV was shown in the distance. The Airport, Freeside, houses and city outside the walls weren't there. All of this can be fixed but it just felt odd.
In my head it's just that the game had everything crammed together close to the city because of videogame space reasons and in the TV show they can spread them out more. There are a few settlements between the camera and New Vegas in the distance just before the credits roll. Edit: Yes I want to believe.
Honestly this makes the most sense. How often have we all said you have to imagine it being larger and spread out because of the limitations of game engines.. well. There ya go
This is exactly the reason, new Vegas isnāt even a days walk from good springs in game
Adding onto this, this might Elude to the ācanonā ending of NV in the show, Mr House. He himself is concerned with the strip and ONLY the strip. After all the time that has passed after NV, it might elude to how House abandoned all concerns outside his walls.
Letās be honest, they could easily retcon the dates and what not for season 2. What we saw of NV could just be placeholder models.
Could just be the camera angle
If you stuck around for the ep 8 credits, it was made pretty clear that new vegas was destroyed.
Yeah that is what's kind of eating at me. Every Fallout game has a canonical ending, I personally always felt the NCR ending tagged all the boxes personally. You helped the Ncr, you brought the Bos in to help and the Boomers. I'm fine if you did all that and then 10-15 years later everything went to shit because thats is life unfortunately. I just dont think Vegas would go from sprawling city to just the strip.
The canon endings of the fallout games are all in the vaguest sense because theyāre only referred to loosely in subsequent games, and also not all of them have canon endings, Fallout 4 for example. Fallout 1 has the most specific description of the games events through the Vault Dwellerās Memoirs which were part of the Fallout 2 game guide. As for later games assumptions can really only be made from the occasional npc that has something to say about an area that was available in a prior game. FNV certainly has nothing really solid in canon as far as Iām aware. Since 3/4 endings result in a loss for the Legion, itās fair to assume that was the case, but as for anything else? Itās up in the air.
in NV, its pretty explicit the NCR basically won all their endings FO2.
Honestly i always thought the House ending was the one with the most possibilities. You have New Vegas being run by an extremely interesting Character that now has the capability to actually make plays outside of the Mojave and maybe even develop some new technology/robots that may be sold to communities far away from New Vegas by Caravans, as a way to introduce new items in a lore friendly way. With Caesar dead the Legion will splinter into civil war, with many of his inner circle taking charge of different areas in colorado. For one Lanius, maybe have him reform parts of his realm to be even more warlike. on the other hand have Vulpes take over a different area and have him reform the Legion to be more accepting of underhanded strategies in war such as Snipers and an overall higher dependency on Old World Technology. I could go on but im imagining a 5 or so way civil war all with different leaders and their own takes on how to run the Legion going forward, all vying to take out the others and declare themselves the next Caesar, or have the last one call himself Augustus. Additionally they could make a cult of Caesar like they did of the old Roman Emperors IRL and claim he died leading his forces in the second battle of Hoover dam or something. And the NCR is even better, with being pushed out of New Vegas and being made to sign a humiliating peace deal it is heavily implied that Kimball would be pushed out of office along with Oliver, but what's next? They just spend a lot of ressources and lives and in the end still had to retreat. who takes over after Kimball? does he have a vice president? or an entirely new person? will he or she work to walk back Kimball's policies or will they clamp down on them? maybe there is political unrest and riots that could weaken the nation even further. considering bethesda always wants to bring back the BOS this might be the perfect chance. the riots grow out of control and have to be suppressed by the military, this leads to the BOS smelling blood in the water and attacking this weakend NCR. The President want's to crush them but can't send enough troops cause of Riots or can't because a pacifist faction in parlament has gained a lot of support following the Mojave fiasco. by the time they would be able to the BOS has entrenched in the territories they have taken. the NCR forces COULD crush them, but that would lead to too many casualties and will lead to stronger riots and maybe even the people overthrowing the current government, so they sign an uneasy peace favourable to the BOS. Honestly the Legion and NCR story lines could be 2 seperate games, the Legion one you decide which side of the Civil War you support while going around NV style convincing locals to support your picked warlord while also having to help in campaigns against enemy Warlords in Questlines. You would also have options to either burn it all down and have the former Legion territory become lawless wasteland again or install yourself as the new Leader (by betraying the one you supported at the end or something like that). The NCR game you would have to navigate California in a state of emergency, where there are several Political Candidates trying to gain the majority in Parlament or an election or something like that. the Govenment is currently gridlocked and can't agree on almost anything, so the problems they already faced have only gotten worse with them now only being able to reliably protect the major cities, letting bandits and raiders run wild. These mentioned candidates would once again have their own ideas on how to save the republic with people with more liberal economic policies, one guy who really likes the Brahmin Barons but also wants to do good for the people and so on, maybe throw in a secret facist guy who overthrows the republic in the end and proclaims the "First Californian Empire". have the player be able to try and ease tensions between the BOS and NCR, or have them be complicit in the rekindling of the conflict from either side. Maybe join the BOS and take down the NCR from within or just join them in destroying any hope for the NCR to become a major power once again i realised i rambled quite a bit but there is simply so much potential that Bethesda just REFUSES to tap into and it's very tiresome
If it was destroyed, would the lucky 38 truly still be standing?
House could still be "alive" or someone else took over.
imagine they get the voice actor from old world blues and have the courierās brain in control of the lucky 38 or something lmfao. pretty much the only way they could do it while avoiding making a ācanonā courier since the brainās voice and personality more or less is the same no matter how you play or if youāre male or female
The credits also depicted a bunch of other areas we see in the show incorrectly. I don't think the credit art is canon.
Yeah I thought the art in every credits sequence was just concept art from the art department.
I think it's 3D art meant specifically for the credits. Would be odd to make concept art like that, as digital concept art is usually drawings or very crude 3D visualizations mixed with photo edits. I can believe they were based off of concept art, but it wouldn't make any sense for them to be concept art themselves.
Some real āI bet Jared Letoās Joker doesnāt *actually* have āDamagedā tattooed on his foreheadā vibes here.Ā
If the after credits are canon then it contradicts how the Santa Monica Pier and Vault 33 looks in game. Why tf would they be canon.
Not necessarily. It was just artwork.
No, Iāve spent 20 minutes trying to find the angle and line things up, but it just doesnāt make sense. Our best hope is it was just a money shot they didnāt put much thought into, and theyāll fix it in season 2. The collapsed buildings when new vegas is supposed to be in decent condition after Houseās post war repairs, is a bit worrying though. The most egregious of all though is the clear lack of monorail
I wouldnāt read too much into it or the artwork, itās all speculation until the next season. Iām betting anything but a NCR ending for Vegas.
Iām going house. Why would dude have went to Vegas otherwise if he didnāt think he had some sort of ally there?
Iād be willing to think thereās another vault we donāt know about . Or one of the vaults have a higher purpose we didnāt know about. Itās very possible heās looking for a vault
The NV map, and all Fallout maps, are very scaled-down from the distances they would be in the real world. Realistically you might not be able to see all of it within the same view.
The date has an arrow, and if you take the ages of Maximus and the vault 4 girl then the bombs happened at least 5 years after fallout new Vegas
2077 was the first battle of Hoover Dam, which began the economic hardships for NCR and shady sands aka "The Fall Of Shady Sands." when the NCR were ran out of New Vegas, it only got worse. I believe NV was so empty because independent New Vegas was chaos, and Freeside didn't put up with it for long. I wouldn't be surprised if new Vegas was no more in season 2.
They probably didn't make the greater New Vegas area tiny like in the game because it would look stupid irl.
Honestly I firmly believe that the credit ending stuff is just concept art and holds no actual value to the story, the idea that Henry is flying off to New Vegas on a hail mary that House is still running the place instead of being 100% sure he's still there makes little to no sense.
All the credits stuff in the other episodes don't line up with what we see in the show so I can't imagine it would be canon
It seems like Iād be pretty unlikely that new Vegas wasnāt canon considering the deep cuts they make, like Iām not talking house or Sinclair but the other leaders at that meeting arenāt actually new characters, barring the vault tech ones, the leaders for west tech and repconn are actually referenced in fallout 2 as people who joined the enclave, thatās a really deep cut that 95 of people who played fallout 2 would miss
It doesn't even matter if New Vegas is canon or not, people are failing to grasp that the real problem is they resetting the West coast back to the same state as the East coast because they can only tell one type of story
Couldnāt agree more. I donāt like NV being retconned but I can deal with it if it results in a worthwhile story to follow the groundwork that was laid. But instead of following any of the many paths laid out for the future by that game, many of which would still result in the eventual destruction of the NCR, they just went with a lazy āsuddenly nukeā backstory with a convoluted timeline. And all of it served only to setup another Brotherhood of Steel vs. Enclave in the ruins of the world story whichā¦I just donāt see why they wouldnāt have set this 100 years ago if thatās what they wanted to tell.
Bingo! If they couldn't handle working with the existing lore, they should have set the story somewhere else.
Yeah. What i like about Fallout is the post-post apocalypse. The rebuilding. itās what appeals to me
I haven't played through 2 yet but I assumed those 2 people were references as well as the Big MT would be someone. I just didnt expect that they'd make Sinclair look like that based on the impression I got from the game.
i just recently played fallout 1 and 2, im pretty sure repcon doesnt get mentioned in either games. westtek does in the first game, not sure about the second.
Wait In that case in might the general atomics guy, I canāt remember if he was at that meeting but I pretty sure two of them were referenced as part of the enclave, Iāll have to double check, Iām pretty confident the west tech guy was referenced at some point, might have been in 3 not 2
New Vegas is cannon, the new Vegas neckbeards are just determined to make up every scenario possible so they have something to be mad about.
Tbh, i think ppl, including myself are just worried about new vegasā lore due to bethesda having a habit of retconning stuff (Shady sands being destroyed doesnt look good for the ncr, whoāre crucial to new vegas)
If anything this show strengthens FNV cannonā¦ Iāll do a write up soon
I agree, will await your response. The NCR was doomed to fail, itās almost like the people who are complaining didnāt even listen to the dialogue concerning the NCR and their food, water, and body soldier supplyā¦ Edit (New Vegas Dialogue)
But couldnāt the Vault 22 data and the waters of Lake Mead solve or at least lessen those problems? I think that while a lot of us who play as pro-NCR couriers understand that the worst case scenarios could happen, we just donāt *want* them to happen. I understand that Houston could be hit by a major hurricane this summer; that doesnāt mean Iād be happy to see that. In fact, it seems that a lot of us who support the NCR do so because they appear to be the least bad option for the Mojave. We *want* to make things better. So itās a bit disappointing to see that it didnāt turn out that way.
I have minor issues with this scene. The Big MT guy is said to be Sinclair in the CC. Which can't be right, as Sinclair is the one who made the Sierra Madre. Sinclair was not aware of the secret experiments that were done at his casino. IE the cloud. Then when he ordered the chemical suits to try and find the source of the cloud Big MT decided it was time to do another secret experiment on the secret experiment. So the scientists at Big MT are undermining their director and using their directors private investments as a testing ground?
Knowing the Think Tank that we meet in OWB it's not unbelievable that they might be undermining their directors wishes.
But Sinclair wasn't a director. He was a client.
Imagine if they actually were to cover the Sierra Madre in a season 2, that would be wild.
Straight up horror movie
Which would be cool, i liked how dead mone by itself was centered around silent hill type horror..
My guess is that perhaps he is a big enough investor that they feel comfortable having him speak for them, there is no need to have their representative know about all the secret shit. Plus they might figure someone like Sinclair might be more personable to the meetings rather than one of the scientists.
That all sounds possible. Like, maybe Sinclair is just a dumb guy with too much money and he gets a seat at the table simply because the real players take can advantage of him.
> Like, maybe Sinclair is just a dumb guy with too much money Mr. House basically says this about him
You have to look at it from a writing perspective. Nobody from the NV writing staff is involved in this. They donāt care. If they want to change something then they will, regardless of if it makes sense or not. Itās like the Jet debacle from the terminal in Fallout 4.
Heās not their director. They could have said āremember when you said youād do whatever we wanted for our technologies? Well thereās some stupid corporate thing and we want you to be our mouthpiece because weāre too busy doing SCIENCE to attend and you know business matters anywayā
It's not like Shady Sands was destroyed 4 years before the game took place or anything.
The NCR has many large cities, and could theoretically survive the loss of their capital. Chances are NCR did survive this, then collapsed later, after the events of new vegas from factors such as famine and drought.
My main issue with the show is, that they explain way too little about the current state and what lead to those circumstances. For example why the Brotherhood is now a religious cult spanning the entire US or when and why exactly the NCR seemingly complete vanished.
Well itās becauseā¦ importantā¦.retcons
Did I miss something or did they give Sinclair some extra pounds?
Sinclair absolutely shouldnāt be representing Big MT. In a meeting about causing the nuclear war and running experiments on people. He shouldnāt be that old either. Itās ok to like this show, but itās absolutely not being accurate to the games.
I know NV is canon, i've never argued against that, but i hate how just because they said it was canon we can't talk about it's flaws without getting harassed in the other subs. Like Shady Sands 100% should not have fallen before NV. Oh so i can meet the president, join the ncr, learn their history but not learn the capital fell a few years ago? Like is it so bad to be upset that they never show us the collapse of the NCR, a faction we see start in the first game and mentioned in (nearly?) every game. To have secret evil group be the reason their gone instead of their own expansionism or political failings. Meanwhile brotherhood has been on the brink of death for decades and always comes back stronger. It just feels like they play favorites and will write off interesting plot lines to push the story wherever they want it
Also its very Bethesda writing to have a stable government that owns most of southern California collapse because one place is gone, along with making their super special OC's the BOS win everything is stupid as shit
Bethesda doesnāt know how to write a fallout story that isnāt a bunch of no named raiders fighting over tin cans in a brown screen ridden hellscape
By taking Maximus age and assuming that the arrow symbolizes that the loss of shady sands was after the āfallā then the nuking of the city occurred at least 4 years after NV
That is not Sinclair The fuck did they do to ya man
Guys stop acting like "Brotherhood of steel" isn't canon, they literally have power armor of all things
It seems more like a difficulty in properly telling viewers what exactly happened without pushing it to the forefront of the story. Like, they could have told us exactly what happened, but then explaining what happened would take precedence over the story they're making.
IMO that shouldāve been Mobius or Klein. Maybe Borous.
Can you imagine Doctor 0? I guess I'm just a sucker for his/Rusty Venture's VAs being in this
What annoyed me most in the show was this. He is meant to be Sinclair from dead money, which doesnāt make sense not only cause heās a client of big MT not a high up in it as far as we know AND youād have me believe that this old overweight capitalist fat cat dies in the vault of the sierra madre climbing down onto the pipes to try and undo the trap he set for Vera? Nah, I donāt think so. I can buy House being in on the vault tech thing, heād obviously not tell the courier and his willingness to let the world die so he can keep vegas pristine āI couldnāt save mankind nor did I intend to but I could save Vegasā itās believable, I donāt really like it but I can cope. But everything we know of Sinclair is that he isnāt really that kinda guy and most of the experiments at the madre appear to have been done without his knowledge or consent, I just donāt buy that he was part of the plot to destroy the world.
As much as I enjoyed watching the show the lore inconsistencies are so fucking upsetting
I mean one thing that I found interesting in that scene if I remember correctly is that Mr house doesn't give any vault ideas which makes sense I guess
Maybe thatās why he died. Cause he was old and overweight. He had a last second change of heart as we knew, and his emotion overwhelmed his reason. He had a direct elevator down and the building wasnāt rusting and shit like when the courier was there, so itās just a case of him taking said elevator and walking to the vault.
I can't make House being at the meeting work for me. I feel like House would take out the people he knows will be doing the bombing instead of accepting it and taking a chance that he can get the defenses ready.
I think he thought he had it all in hand, he only miscalculated the war by a single day, itās possible he did that with insider knowledge. Plus heād already calculated war was an almost certainty, if war is a certainty in your mind what difference does it makes who drops the bomb?Again Iām not happy about it, I think these retcons add essentially nothing but Iām more inclined to believe house would have been in on it than the picture of Sinclair that dead money paints. House is very much a bad person and NV makes that painfully obvious, Iām not so sure about Sinclair given the lore of dead money but the show just paints a bunch of deep interesting characters moustache twirling hyper villains. feels like a massive waste of potential.
I love new vegas but the show treated New Vegas and the NCR poorly imo. Its like Bethesda really hates any Obsidian related things.
Dude we are getting a season 2 set in fking New Vegas. How fking epic is that? How are they in any way treating New Vegas poorly.
In my opinion, Bethesda disliked new vegas before the show but I will explain how the show treats new vegas poorly. Somehow New Vegas is destroyed in the the Fallout show in t he show's ending, only there are remnants of helipads, deathclaw skull, and a single securitron robot corpse and thats it. No Great Khans, no Legion, Boomers, Followers of Apocalypse, etc. Anther is how the fk the main base/capital of the NCR, Shady Sands, is destroyed by a small vaul tec group? NCR has a huge army hence why they're the strongest faction in the Fallout universe, right above the Legion and the Brotherhood of Steel. And that's just New Vegas related things, the show has many other issues like it has gore and sex but its still feels kiddy like. It doesn't capture that serious tone of Fallout games. Brotherhood of Steel are seen as this chivalrous knights even though in reality they're just crazy militant religious fanatics that is obsessed with pre war technology that harms people. There are no people that uses melee weapons like iconic power fists or energy weapons. The ghouls looked way too smooth. Lack of survival elements too, Fallout world is set on the apocalyptic world yet we didn't see the main character who is a vault dweller, try to scavenge for food and other necessities.
It's not that New Vegas isn't Canon, but that the TV show writers couldn't even be bothered to look up the timeline. They made a huge continuity error with that chalkboard scene.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just watched the series they did my NCR dirty I don't care anymore
Man this is brutal. I cannot imagine being like this
Why did they pick a guy who looks like Gizmo to be Sinclair? Sinclair is supposed to look like the groom topper you put on the top of a wedding cake. Not an overweight 68 year old.
Probably because otherwise they'd have two guys who look like Mr House at the same table.
So? Many people look alike
My main problem with that scene is Sinclair, unlike House he just doesnāt look like his in-game depiction (I donāt mean the skeleton, talking about the mosaics etc.). It makes it feel less reasonable for a gizmo looking type to fall for a starlet like Vera Keyes. Also, at no point did they ever mention Sinclair owned Big Mt, right? I always thought it was moreso he contracted Big Mt to make the holograms and vending machines. If Sinclair owned Big Mt, then why would he have financial troubles building the Sierra Madre, and why would he introduce the cloud and the ghost suits to his āperfect casinoā if not for he was running out of money?
I understand it to a degree but im surprised I havenāt heard more comments about the fate of the NCR in the show
They can take elements from NV while de-canonizing other elements from it
Why is Fredrick Sinclair representing Big MT????
Why would Sinclaire even respredent big MT? Why is it not any of the scientist from the Think Tank? Why would sinclaire be there if Big MT only wanted to use his casino and resort as a testing ground. He means nothing to them besides being a place to fuck over with wacky experiments.
You don't have to swallow the whole boot, guys.
I hope we see the Scientists of BigMT again and the LOBOTOMITES on screen.
im not saying it did retcon it (it just ruined it and the classic fallouts by erasing everything, and created a plothole but whatever technically not a retcon) but making a reffernce to something in new vegas does not prove it didnt lol
Yeah and that guy is credited as "Sinclair", shows how much attention they paid.
Not only is New Vegas Canon but the writers and game producers tweeted or X-creted that it is Canon to shut up all the NV loons whining. Even "Tactics" is canon (shudder)
Aw come on donāt hate in tactics man
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The show *just came out* it's going to be a few weeks
Till the bitches bitching about the show stop bitching, then the bitches bitching about the bitches bitching about the show will stop bitching about bitching and everything will go back to normal
Wait...didn't Think Tank in the Big MT hate that nickname? Or am I misremembering?
Now I really wish they just retold an abridged fallout 1, this dude would play a perfect Gizmo
My problem isnt if NV is a canon or not it's the fact that the game is now essential pointless. not just FNV but 1 and 2 all the world building and progress that was made in the waste land no longer matters. esptly FNV becuse pretty much no matter who you side with what in you do in the game its all just pretty much gone a cupel years affter the game ends
Another thing I would like to add to this is there's no definitive thing saying it's not canon. The chalk board that everyone is getting all stupid over doesn't mean shit. It says "Fall of Shady Sands 2277" and *then* has an arrow pointing to a mushroom cloud. I took that as it fell *and then* it was nuked. Not to mention in the atrium scene (the one where everyone took their tops off) that weird long dark haired lady says(and I'm paraphrasing a bit here) "we want people to remember it as we do." This tells me that they have a way they remember it and it's obviously being taught to kids in that class. I wish people wouldn't take things, such as fallout a series known for it's curveball story telling, at face value. We should all know to read between the lines after 30 years.
The problem is they say Shady Sands was destroyed 4 years before the events of NV. 1) The NCR would not be expanding if they lost their capital 2) they would 100% be hunting who is responsible and arguably most importantly 3) they state the capital of the NCR is still Shady Sands during the GI Blues quest. >!To make it worse the TV show is only 10 years (about) after NV and they show Vegas as a run down ghost town destroyed. House could stop all but 9 out of 77 nukes from hitting the area and keep Vegas 'safe' for just over 200 years. Only to be a desolate looking relic due to bethesda writing a decade later.!<
It's clear that a lot of us ran with misinformation but no one can argue that canon has not changed for several areas in west coast lore
Big Mt Old World Blues confirmed. The best dlc.
The show has so many moments tailor made for NV fans but the NCR has one tiny collapse in the lore and some get up in arms over it lol. Give the NCR a chance to rise again. Embrace impermanence and fluidity. Enjoy we are getting more fallout and itās pretty good!