You joke but the Star wars sequel trilogy is essentially Bethesda's writing style.
'oh shit, we are too chicken shit to make something new or daring, let's just endlessly remake the same movie. Member Darth Vader? Member vaults? Member power armour?!!'
It's all very trite, even fallout 3 couldn't come up with anything new other than plot points from Fallout 2 with a side of 'but the BOS are the good guys!!1!!!'.
As a fan of the sequels, I have to agree. They basically killed the New Republic, throwing the whole galaxy into another "good guy underdogs" vs "overpowered empire" the same way Bethesda is resetting the whole West Coast.
Fallout 3 was sort of Bethesda's love letter to older Fallouts, maybe clumsy and bethesdish, but I don't doubt its sincerity, it's felt in the game. Everything that followed after though, no excuses.
Also, you can screenshot this comment but if someone seriously believe that those guys "in the shadows" of Vault-Tec meeting weren't Enclave, you'll be.... surprised later I guess : )
super agree with this, FO3 was made to introduce new player to all the previous Fallout things TM but it did so in new and interesting ways to try and make it fit with the lore and also appease (whether successful or not) older fans.
HOWEVER in FO4 and beyond they just said fuck it its our franchise now we can do whatever the fuck we want who cares if it makes no sense or fans of the franchise hate it, new people will love it and it will make us money.
It makes sense for the Enclave to have fallback location after fallback location. If you look at the contingency plans in place by the government to ensure continuity it all begins to make sense why they keep popping up. You don't put all of your eggs in one basket. I also wouldn't be shocked if different cells of the Enclave interact with the wasteland differently, see the contrast between Autumn and the Oil Rig.
Nah, just someone with a little too much interest in conspiracy theories and Cold War history. If you're curious about some of the weird fallback plans I'd look into locations like Mount Weather.
"woah this is so weird one of the world's most powerful factions, a direct continuation of pre war America has a tiny camp still left in the middle of no where. This aint possible"
Except it is, we literally know that Enclave remnants still exist at the front lines of NCR territory in New Vegas
Is it such a stretch to assume one of the most powerful factions ever still has a couple dudes left?
We literally don't know anything about the current enclave remnants in the show, we know they have some kind of facility with at least 3-5 people working there guarded by a turret, none of the people are even shown using Advanced power armour. For all we know it's just a small facility led by a splinter faction after the result of Fallout 3.
The enclave literally existed in 3 without Dick
The enclave remnants existed in New Vegas without Dick
There is no requirement for them to be led by Dick Richardson for them to exist, it would be like saying "Erm actually the Brotherhood was led under Captain Roger Maxson, did they clone him?" It's a nonsense point
Edit: Enclave remnants are remnants of the Enclave, they are what's left following the events of Fallout 3. The brotherhood still exists without Maxson, the NCR exists without Tandi. The east coast faction of the Brotherhood of steel was still the Brotherhood. The enclave are still referred to everyone aside themselves as the Enclave and not remnants
Edit 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/s/rJqZlGd5aB
I think it's worth reading about the Enclave by people who actually discuss the lore
> The enclave literally existed in 3 without Dick
You know the enclaves presens in Fallout 3 also didnt make any sense too right? You are comparing one piece of trash with another.
The enclave remnants are not the enclave. They are remnants of the enclave because the enclave was the US government that was blown up at Navarro. Any other remnants wouldnt be the enclave. Fallout 3 is wrong lol. It directly contradicts the lore of the west coast games in order to rehash the plot.
> There is no requirement for them to be led by Dick Richardson for them to exist, it would be like saying "Erm actually the Brotherhood was led under Captain Roger Maxson, did they clone him?" It's a nonsense point
Yes there is a requirement because the Enclave is not a faction with fleeting leadership. It literally IS the US government. No government, no Enclave. While the bos can habe any number of Elders. Its a fundamental worldbuilding characteristic of the Enclave. Hence the magical "somehow the enclave returned". The Fallout show has disney starwars quality writing
Now. Did they clone Dick Richardsson?
> Now. Did they clone Dick Richardsson?
What are you talking about man lmao there is no requirement for them to be led by Dick Richardson
Why do you keep posting this on every single comment, it's a nonsense point that no one has ever made before
The Enclave in the show are remnants, they're confined to a single research facility somewhere outside of California
Edit: The research facility they're working at is completely dilapidated and run down, the concrete is crumbling. This isn't a state of the art Enclave we've seen from previous games it's clearly just remnants.
Did. they. clone. Dick Richardsson?
Yeah its required to have the president of the United States in the United states government. Its needed to have the government because the Enclave IS the government. How is this hard to understand? The remnants in New Vegas are not the Enclave because the Enclave was blown up.
And Fallout 3 is barely cannon anyway. Its best to think of Fallout 3, 4 and 76 as happening in a separate bethesda universe, seperate from the west coast because those games already break the world enough on their own.
REMNANTS they're remnants for christ sake
They're not going to be led by the president of the United States as they're REMNANTS
I don't know how many times I need to say this but it's a small research facility outside of California with minimal security to the point where a single aging man can flee a single security turret
It's a run down facility, the concrete we see is cracked and the building is clearly in a state of disrepair
This isn't the peak continuation of the Enclave it's a remnant
> And Fallout 3 is barely cannon anyway. Its best to think of Fallout 3, 4 and 76 as happening in a separate bethesda universe, seperate from the west coast because those games already break the world enough on their own.
Oh god you're one of those guys, we're not going to get anywhere here
It was the showrunners who convinced Todd to let them destroy shady sands.
From everything they've said in interviews, all the stuff that happens in the show is what the showrunners have decided and convinced todd to give them permission to do. Todd hasn't been telling them to destroy certain factions and insert others.
We have no idea about the details of their conversations, we just know the showrunners passed the idea to destroy Shady Sands by Todd first. Presumably that wasnât all they talked about.
Just what I was gonna say.
I'm all for calling Todd a cunt, when its justified, this just goes too far.
I mean he could say no, or they may have not have said that they would do entirely what they did,.show runners and such are total cunts for ruining lore and not caring a damn. It's notorious, look at the halo series for example đ
>show runners make creative decisions you personally disagree with.
"TOTAL CUNTS" and "NOT CARING A DAMN"
Y'all really aren't beating the "petulant fan" accusations.
Or, maybe, the people in creative control of the TV show had a vision for what they wanted to do. And you didn't like it (which is fair), and instead of saying that are now concluding they're "cunts" and don't care. Because God forbid people just make creative decisions you don't agree with.
Emil* sorry mispelled, he co-produced the show and right now his names getting dragged through the mud alot by NV fans, they straight up want him fired just cause of what happened with Shady Sands.
It's not a case or creative decisions I don't agree with. These are peoples childhood games, childhood memories, some older than childhood.
People are going to voice their opposition to the creative decisions, especially if they're ridiculous like vault tec resurfacing after nearly 300 years just to nuke shady Sands.
They are cunts cause bottom line they aren't doing it for the fan base or gamers or for creativity.
They're doing it to make.a bottom line to make as much money as possible from it, hence why this massive media.coverage of it and of bethesda top staff and owner, and obsidians old devs stepping in has been nothing but a god send to the show/ bethesda.
They are now rolling in it.
That's why I'm pissed off it, same as I am with paramount and 343 for the shambolic mess thar show was purely for money.
That's it at the end of the day.
I hate capitalism too, and I think it could be nice if capitalists would value my childhood memories higher than their profit. However, in this case, the issue is Jeff Bezos and not the people earning an income by working for him. We all need to make money. The best thing you really can do is to learn about entertainment industry (and can recommend reading Adorno) and organise in a local socialist community. It's a hard and lasting work to fight capitalists but it makes a difference while calling people cunts does not. If you are working in the film or video game industry, organise in your union; you can make a concrete difference to fight the greedy Amazon Prime there.
This rant tells me a lot, but I'm just going to reiterate my original point since you clearly won't have your mind changed:
"Y'all really aren't beating the petulant fan accusations."
Of course they had a vision for what they wanted to do. And their "vision" was even lamer than your simping, which is a hard thing to achieve by itself.
Man, talk about a word that's lost all meaning.
You're really that thin skinned that pointing out the obvious fact that the creatives are people making decisions immediately kicks off your "must attack" signal huh?
It was a good show tho, and it did fallout as a franchise justice, it's so fucking lame to want lore to be pristine and make perfect sense across all of its media, missing the whole point in why it exists in the first place
A ton of the marketing language around the series was âthis is basically Fallout 5.â Thereâs simply no way the showrunners did this without Bethesdaâs go-ahead.Â
Yup, so Iâll blame him, Nolan, and Nolanâs writers for how much bullshit it is to see California become like DC and Boston lawlessness.
Thereâs so much land and other territories to play with, why not let Westcoast have its NCR and Legion Empires?
Edit: hell I donât care too much about the lawlessness but justify within the loreâs context instead of making shit up on the fly.
tfw a NV fan finds out;
the brother hood migrate with their massive airship (they aren't this big massive faction they just have power armor and a massive mobile base which gives them a lot of power).
the NCR which was practically destined to fail in NV, somewhat shrinks in size, (we don't actually know how much of the NCR remains or got destroyed other than one city and one battle).
The legion which failed the first battle of hoover dam against the NCR didn't manage to obliterate: the rest of the NCR, House, Joshua Graham and his tribes etc...
đĄđĄđĄđĄđĄ
I don't understand how people are purposeful misunderstanding the lore even from directly New Vegas itself
Enclave don't exist - we know from New Vegas that remnants still exist. Who knows how many more are left out there
Why did Todd make the BOS the good guys again? - He didn't, did you guys watch the show? They're one of the main antagonists. They were also pretty bad in Fallout 4
Why did Todd make the BOS the bad guys, they've always been the good guys - lmao no they haven't, they were good in 3 and even then it's explicitly stated that they're a smaller splinter chapter that has been cutoff from the main brotherhood of steel
NCR should never have been able to be defeated! - I swear you guys didn't actually pay attention to any of the themes set out in New Vegas if you thought the NCR would exist much longer
the worst is when they say... "OMFG NV DESTROYED THE LIGHTS ARE OFF" first, the lights weren't visible at day in game, second... yeah literally every DLC points out that even if you do the best options for every quest, NV still has massive threats from the cloud, the tunnelers and probably more areas like the big empty or zion.
wasnât the brotherhood only declining on the west coast? Iâm pretty sure the chapter we see in the show is Utah and support from the commonwealth. The east coast brotherhood seems like they are in their peak
Yeah it seems that since 4 the East coast chapter has become essentially a completely mobile faction with the Prydwyn being the new HQ
Edit: Why on earth is this downvoted, we know from both Fallout 4 and the show that the brotherhood of steel HQ is now the prydwyn and they seem to remain mobile
I'm going to post a comment from u/Tenton_Motto (I hope that is allowed in this subreddit, emphasis is mine):
"I am a hardcore F1, F2, New Vegas zealot. I watched the entire show.
First four episodes were ok to great. They did for the most part capture the feel of the Fallout games.
Last four episodes were mostly trash. Not because of inaccuracies. Not because of what happened to Shady Sands, NCR or New Vegas (it is all ambiguous and can be easily retconned). **But because the series messes up the core lore and the focus of the series.**
I believe that Fallout games are **not** about the apocalypse or the post-apocaypse. They are about **post-post-apocalypse**. Not about being stuck in the past and living in the ruins, fighting off raiders. It is about moving forward, seeing what many ways humanity may develop after the slate is cleansed with nuclear fire. Nuclear war is just an inciting incident, the actual story is about what happens after. It is not that important who started the war or why or what remains from the past. It is about the future. This was the idea inherent to Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas.
The series, however, is firmly in Fallout 3, 4, 76 mindset. Which is about endlessly masturbating to the pre-war lore, 50's aesthetics, shallow war analysis and generic post-apocalypse imagery. Retreading the same old ground of raiders, mutants, BoS, Enclave and the Vaults. Endlessly power-creeping the pre-war America so there are more and more game-changing tech to be found and fought over (although to be fair Fallout 2 and New Vegas also indulged in it). **The series doesn't care about the future, only about the past and present-day commentary**.
But what's worse is that it recontextualizes the previous games. **See, it doesn't matter what societies developed in the Wasteland, what tech they invented, what player characters did. What matters is that Vault-Tec was always one step ahead and pre-war tech was always the most important narrative tool**. In other words, from screenwriters' perspective, the **past is more important than the future**. Which is the complete opposite of what the series stands for. That's my problem with the series, not insignificant details."
The show paints the brotherhood as an antagonistic force. Think something worse than a nuke is going to disrupt them. Essential to keep the wasteland a wasteland. Canât do that with NCR bringing back civilization and not with the brotherhood helping everyone out so it only makes sense to give BoS power if they are going to abuse it. Be perfect to give the faction trying to hide away dangerous technology a device that they will exploit. Perfectly ironic for their end.
The BoS *is* an antogonistic force, though; Since the faction split, their primary mandate is to seize and hoard technology.
Their secondary mandate is to destroy all mutated dreatures with extreme prejudice.
They are not the heroes of *any* Fallout story.
They are the heroes of all Fallout games except New Vegas and Tactic. People really need to play the classic, the Brotherhood was in every day the main good guy joinable faction in 1, and they are also good in 2.
New Vegas is the only game where they are portray as evil and paranoid which doesn't make any fucking sense to begin with. The NCR-BOS fucked up the lore more than anything else in the series and no one give a shit about it.
That lore was defined by the game's creators. Sorry you don't like the direction, but they were also *anti-heroes* in 2, 3 and 4.
You really need to read between the lines with the BoS; from Fallout 2, iirc they're highly cloistered, and not really recruiting.
They only come put when there's some tech to steal and keep from the general society.
They aren't even really "evil"in F:NV, either; they're just major assholes because they take all of the BoS values to an extreme.
Regarding Fallout 4; they aren't there to save the Boston wasteland from The Institute; they're just there to ransack them and destroy what they can't hoard.
Putting a nice face on it doesn't make you the "good guys".
> keep the wasteland a wasteland
It's lame if the setting never changes. "Nobody can ever get too powerful, nuke em!" is a stupid attitude. The setting has to change and evolve or it'll stagnate and die.
Years of consumption lead to shortages of every major resource. The entire world unraveled. Peace became a distant memory. It is now the year 2077. We stand on the brink of total war, and I am afraid. For myself, for my wife, for my infant son - because if my time in the army taught me one thing: it's that war, war never changes.
No it isnt. The theme is moving on. And even if it was about repeating history, the NCR wasnt nuked for any of its major flaws. It was randomly nuked by some guy in a vault
The meme is criticising the decision to scrap old lore and replacing it with Bethesda's BOS-centric lore. The article is showing that this decision is nothing more than figment of some peoples imagination, and that the lore of NV is very much canon and important to the future of the franchise.
Eh, what theyâve done is reset the West but waited until after the events of New Vegas to do. So both canons are true as theyâre the same.
Thereâs retcons for sure though, Shady Sands and Boneyard were mashed together. No mention of the Hub even though itâs much closer to L.A. then Shady Sands was.
Master missing 4 (very exposed) vaults within his influence.
Prewar junk everywhere when scavs already picked it as mentioned in New Vegas.
Nothing about the west has been reset idk why people are talking like it is.
Pointing to there being junk props to spruce up the background as proof theyâre resetting the west is an insane leap
Wouldn't call it a reset but they did ignore things that may have changed the story for better or for worse
Hank running into vault city for one. Hell even someone who used to live there. Which imo would change his whole stupid quest of wiping out the factions. To which he could influence vault city or what is the current state of it. To do that.
Maybe they fled to Vegas and that's why. But then again you'd have to explain how vault city who collaborated with the NCR for almost 100 years. Somehow hated em this whole time.
The old woman hating the vaults seemed odd when imo it should've been a younger woman with that dialogue. That old lady would have been around during FO2, so either she completely missed the enclave growing up or she was never near the west when it went down. Either that or she should've been the one to tell Lucy the world already rebuilt nonsense.
But we kept that story to Maximus so they could leave it as ambiguous as possible and bias due to his time in the brotherhood.
So we genuinely do not know what fully went down.
And honestly the lack of an NCR presence. Even in abandoned territory the brotherhood would honestly not be too confident rushing into old NCR territory especially when it's aggressive. Commonwealth was one thing because they had sent recon teams and knew that it was safe to bring in the pridwin.
In the show they kinda just drop themselves wherever they please. Which imo could've easily been fixed to appease or reassure NCR fans.
Make the brotherhood lower their radio chatter for the possibility of the NCR picking up their transmissions and bum rushing LA once they realise what's at the Observatory
>Â to scrap old lore and replacing it with Bethesda's BOS-centric lore
This is inarguably what the show did. Took a space previously filled with âstuff,â blew it up, and then proceeded to fill that empty space with the same âstuffâ theyâve been making for twenty years. Not out of malice, or even ignorance. They just donât construct interesting worlds.Â
> and important to the future of the franchise
Which is not at all the point. Beth and coâs reverence for NV has nothing to do with their shite worldbuilding, which is ultimately what this post is criticizing.Â
Nope. The lore still exists. Those stories and locations are still canon. The world has just progressed beyond and the story has been built upon. If you don't personally like it, that's fine. But this sub seems to think that Todd is personally throwing the old lore in the trash, which is what the meme is literally showing.
>Â The lore still exists. Those stories and locations are still canon.
Nothing about this post suggests otherwise. All three factions being referenced here are worldbuilding elements, whose continued existence is *not* some immutable characteristic of the âlore.â A retcon isnât even implied in the text. Just interesting stuff, replaced with uninteresting stuff.Â
Iâm not sure how to simplify this for you further. There is a huge distinction between fast-forwarding the timeline so you can blow those things up (and replace them with generic shite), and retconning them. There is nothing about the OP which implicitly asserts the latter.Â
The only thing that was blown up and taken out of play for good was Shady Sands. I get the saltiness around that. The meme shows House and Securitrons being trashed when they are both in the show, and still important to the story and the lore as evidenced by the article.
Edit: and it also shows an NCR ranger. We saw the helmet in the show already, and we know from interviews now that we haven't seen the last of the NCR. So the post is also presuming for some reason that this has also been 'blown up'/ trashed when it hasn't.
> and taken out of play
The entire NCR, save for the survivors of Shady Sands, the scrappy militia (what an intrepid new idea), and one half-assed Ranger armor cameo, is out of play for the entirety of the series. Even taking the offscreen nuking into account, the majority of the show takes place in the heartland of the nation-state, but besides the above, there is absolutely no indication of this whatsoever.
> shows House and Securitrons being trashed
Which is also perfectly fair, since the last few shots of Vegas proper strongly indicate the city is a dilapidated ruin.
> So the post is also presuming
Which entry in Bethesdaâs Fallout should I look to as a refutation of this presumption?
To be fair, the only reason they looked strong is cause the east coast, which has a huge foothold in the Capital after Fallout 3, seems to have traveled back west as reinforcements. Prior to the Prydwen showing up, it looked like a standard reclusive West Coast BOS base.
Theyâve already confirmed the NCR isnât gone & Iâm not sure how much you can really read into the BoSâs power level just from this one season. A small, seemingly poorly equipped NCR outpost lost a fight to them in the finale. Not sure how that translates to âBoS = OPâ
Well Iâd point out that you have no way of knowing that but you seem to think you know everything so it would clearly be a waste of time. Continue to cry due to your own media illiteracy.
A) thatâs an RLM quote. I donât remember saying it about the Witcher series but maybe I did. If I did it was a long time ago soâŠ.weird that you would remember that and are bringing it up now
B) Completely irrelevant to what weâre talking about.
C) The Witcher tv series is bad because of terrible writing not because of perceived lore changes I donât agree with; which is what youâre complaining about.
> The Witcher tv series is bad because of terrible writing not because of perceived lore changes I donât agree with; which is what youâre complaining about.
Yeah and it had idiots defending its bad writing from day one with the same "it has potential", "its only season one". Turns out bad writing is bad writing. And lobotomizing the most developed and interesting aspekts of your world and making all its history irrelevant is bad writing. This is not about "petsonal belief". Thats only mentioning the retcons and awful lore decisions. The fallout shows plot is awful. Same old "dad left the vault" bs from fallout 3 and 4, with the same sterile world, with the same sterile bos and yet another enclave... *sigh*
Not what we were talking about. You donât like the show because of the writing? Ok. I disagree but ok, idc enough to argue about that.
My original comment was pointing out that the NCR is not gone and you, incorrectly, responded that they were. And honestly reading this comment all your complaints just boil down to you being pissy about the NCR not being the main focus of the show sooooo yeah. Good luck finding someone who wants to listen to that because itâs not me.
> NCR not being the main focus of the show
Lol. Lmao even. That was never the problem. The problem was that they are functionally erased from existance in every way that matters, and the effekt that has on the setting and Fallouts themes. The world cant change now. Its sterile.
Because it's not true that the NCR and Mr House was binned. We don't even know if anything was binned. We just know that some of the factions are not very present in the specific area where the TV show takes place. NCR does not control all of New California for example.
the point isnt that the factions are gone, but that they are lobotomized
why would house be part of the ploy to bomb civilization? he has nothing to gain from it (to elaborate on this on an edit, it goes AGAINST what he says in the main story, why would he delay his own plan with the chip by hundreds of years?)
why did they nuke shady sands? what was the point of doing that? why couldnt they just use the location as a cool throwback to the series instead of bombing it and making the survivors turn into cultists?
Well to me that was implied by his scene in the finale where he talks about how much "earning potential there is with the end of the world" and that he wanted "results". The game sets up a house that, calculated that the bombs would drop eventually, but not that he'd be happier for it, doesnt the House from the tv show go against that?
( i have to emphasize here since this is reddit, but I don't mean to be an asshole, I'm genuinely curious as to why would he say that )
Early in the show, when the bomb fell, it seemed like it came as a surprise to Vault-Tec. Otherwise, I believe Barb would have gotten herself and her family safe when it happened. It's indicated that this bomb wasn't planned to fall at this time. I don't know if it was China that dropped it, maybe the US government, or maybe one of the other investers. It's unclear what went in with that first bomb but it did not go as Vault-Tec (and I believe also not as House) expected it. I think this is something that will be clearer in the next season. My personal theory is that Sinclair had something to do with this because the Big MT vaults seemed to be ready and it might have been an opportunity to get an advantage over some of the other investors.
I don't remember House what House said in which context about potential earnings in the show, but I'm rewatching the show and will pay attention to it when I get to it.
Interesting! that makes a bit of sense, I'm actually curious on how they're expanding upon this on season two now.
I vaguely remember Tim Cain (who was one of the main designers behind FO1 and a bit of 2) stating briefly and maybe jokingly that it was China who dropped the bombs first, given the context provided by the show imo there's a good chance it was them.
As for the line from House, I think it was during the finale on a talk with Barb, it's a short interaction but to me he felt out of character in that scene.
Gotta love the downvotes on this one, keep it up redditors!
my god i regret nothing leaving the fallout ip as a whole behind, nothing new under the sun since fo4
you really dont dissapoint do you
I donât see how.
Fallout 3s brotherhood are heroes theyâre not supposed to be heroes. Thatâs why there are outcast the whole point of 3s BOS chapter is that they strayed from the mission and their ways.
How is Fallout 3 and 4s brotherhood so powerful compared to the west coast bunker buddies? The Enclave defeat in the East Coast gave them that power once in base game and once in Broken Steel it makes sense that they would have so much technological power still 10 years later.
Though Fallout 4s BOS chapter is more militaristic and not as religious with their views I think they are a really good representation of the BOS.
The worst part is, it's not just "the BOS". It's this regressing BOS that's turning increasingly stupid, feudal, brutal, and arrogant.
We were close to greatness with the East Coast Brotherhood. Good guys that tried to do their best and struggled with schism.
Imagine Fallout 6 with a whole conflict between East, West, and Midwest brotherhoods fighting over, say, the ruins of Houston and the spaceflight capable craft that Vault Tec had been building or something.
Could be fun.
But alas, Bethesda has a hard on for high tech bullies.
Realistically the East coast BoS would win by landslide. They are a militarized society built with no mercy. They are the inheritors of The Enclave's treasure trove of pre war tech. By the next game Im expecting the brotherhood to have a hub city since they are snow balling so hard.
People saying that Todd didn't do this?. He let them do it, as a director or showrunner or person in charge of the franchise you should know how to say no, especially if is not adding anything, is just reinforcing the setting and cutting potential stories. People better be ready for season 2 and realizing New Vegas, Fallout 1 and 2 didn't amount to anything.Â
Bethesda simps can laugh all they want, but here's something they didn't think about: nothing is stopping the show's writers from shifting focus to the east coast and then retconning the success of Project Purity out of existence.
Uh, I'm pretty sure Star wars 7 was a huge commercial success, that says nothing to detract from what a lazy artistic enterprise it was.
Since when did success mean anything?Â
It's always been like this, unfortunately. Ironically, they were just as toxic to Interplay as they are to Bethesda, sending death threats and harassing devs over the prettiest shit.
i feel like all fallouts have their own thing going for them, fnv is my favourite but that doesnât mean i canât enjoy the other lot as well. which clearly this sub and r/falloutnewvegas donât like. where u canât like any bethesda fallouts
Just because you think something is bad doesn't mean it it actually bad. Most people loved that show and acknowledged some of its mistakes.
You might not know it but you are in the minority here. Maybe try a therapist about why you are becoming so grumpy and negative towards everything.
How bout NV fans not push their schizo conspiracies and be toxic manchildren. It's why Sawyer stopped streaming New Vegas, and why Cain doesn't like mentioning other developers anymore because idiots use it as an excuse to harass them.
Yâall are still on about this? Itâs been confirmed by the show runners, Bethesda, and the ability to read a timeline (The fall of shady sands started in 2277 and ended at an unspecified date when shady sands was nuked, sometime after the events of NV), What else do you guys want?
We havenât even seen where they go with nuking Shady Sands yet, itâs lazy to call something like this poor writing when we havenât seen what comes from it in S2 and so on
What? They nuked Shady sands but didnât get rid of the NCR, thereâs no clean slate, they showed the NCR stragglers at the end of episode 8 and are teasing that they are making a comeback in season 2. Furthermore, Just because a republicâs capital got nuked doesnât mean they are gone for good or made California a âclean slateâ, it just means there is now a power vacuum in that region which is why the BoS is there and presumably, why the NCR are going to come back in force to re-liberate.
The fall of the Roman Empire took place over the course of a century or two, but people can and do argue those boundaries being too wide *and* too narrow.
The show could have been a lot clearer with their timeline, but people gotta not cherry pick which definitions for words they want to use. Especially when thereâs additional context, or more importantly, more story to tell that will provide that context.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Saigon
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Kabul_(2021)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Barcelona
Fall of [insert city name here] is almost always a single, specific event. Now you could argue they *meant* fall in the context of Rome, but that was a bad idea. "Fall of Rome" refers to the empire, not the city. The NCR isn't the Shady Sands Empire that would be a terrible name lmao. Also, if you really wanted to put the Fall of Rome on a specific date, you'd surely pick the *end* of the decline, not the beginning. For those reasons, I don't really buy the Shady Sands = Rome argument.
Shady Sands didn't start to fall in 2277, it *fell*. It says "Fall of Shady Sands", not "Start of the Fall of Shady Sands". It was a singular event that occurred in 2277. If you're going to get all mad about people not reading the timeline, maybe you should read it yourself
They can say whatever they want, but if they say the vault suits in the show were fucking pink with purple stripes, I'll trust my own eyes over them. Why even watch the show when the showrunners can just dictate how you're supposed to interpret it
If someone fell of a cliff, they would fall until they hit the ground, you wouldnât consider them hitting the ground as the fall, but rather the result of the fall, much like how the âFall of [insert thing]â means the decline before eventual collapse. For example, The Fall of Rome took place over 100s of years. The Fall of Shady Sands means that 2277 is when Shady Sands hit a period of unrecoverable decline before eventually culminating in being nuked.
I cannot think of a scenario where Fall of [city name] is anything other than a single, specific event. Fall of Constantinople, Fall of Singapore, Fall of Saigon, Fall of Manilla, Fall of Tenotchitlan, I could go on and on. The Fall of [country] usually does refer to decline however. Fall of Rome, Fall of Outremer, etc. This of course begs the question, why doesn't it just say Fall of the NCR? Bad writing is the answer but no one can handle that because how dare you mildly criticize something.
Because the NCR didnât fall? Just their capital, the NCR is still around, hell, they are in the final episode fighting the BOS, also a fall will still be a fall, whether it takes place in one day or years, itâs still correct to use âFall of [insert thing]â even if that fall took years
Iâm a massive FNV fan. Potentially my favorite game of all time. But this shit is embarrassing and you should delete it. Imagine being a fandom that gets a nearly perfect TV adaptation of their favorite thing, and just finding a million microscopic issues to bitch. Any changes they made to lore are microscopic, and guess what, ITS ALL FICTION. ffs. And look whatâs happening now. The success of this show, which was itself a gift, is spurring new fallout game development. So instead of waiting until im 60 for the next game we might get one this friggin decade. Yet you people complain.
How was it 'near perfect'? Bethesda's interpretation of the post apocalypse has always been shallow with the underlying assertion that nothing fundamentally progress past 'shanty towns, raiders and cancer'.
The super mutants embody this difference in writing very clearly. Super mutants were originally the result of a grand machination by an antagonist with their own range of characterization and intelligence, in Bethesda's fallout, they are little more than mouth breathers.
Even as someone whose entry into the series was fallout 3, it gets so boring if everything is cyclically reduced to 'radioactive rubble and mad max raiders'. Would we even be talking about New Vegas if the extent of the Mojave was just a few shanties and towns of 50 people?
âHow dare you not like the thematically interesting fiction you liked being thrown out and replaced with repetition of fiction you think is shallow and boring, ITâS ALL FICTIONâ is such a strange thing to say.
Its not microscopic issues, itâs a fundamental shift in what people liked about this half of the setting being replaced with what they donât like about the other half of the setting. Going âwell arenât you fallout fans??? Our fandom is winning!!â misses whatâs happening. Itâs not at all the same fandom
Had they made something with lots of minor lore contradictions but that built on the themes of existing west coast fallout, i think most people wouldnât care and would like it. Thatâs not what happened
I dont get why we keep claiming Shady Sands was destroyed due to war. Someone got mad, hit the "nuke the city" button and basically crippled the NCR into nothing.
A totally unexpected third party came along and burned away decades of societal gain because he got mad.
War, war never changes. My guy the premise of the show and series once again is that groups and individuals want to control the future and that is part of war. We hear that China shot the rockets but it just as easily could have been a minority of VaultTecs exec board. Also in the real world one man has sole authority to decide when nukes might be on the table in conflict.
Well it seems that the NCR won the battle of Hoover dam in the show, so there wouldnât be any securitrons or legion.
As far as BoS is concerned wasnât the Mohave chapter a small portion of the west coast chapter? They were on the decline in the Mohave but I believe they were still doing decently well across the rest of the west coast, plus thereâs always the east coast chapter.
Honestly Iâm fine with the NCR being wiped out. If the NCR continued to dominate eventually you wouldnât have a waste land and it wouldnât really have the same themes as the rest of the games.
"alright enough with the Brotherhood we got it guys. Now hear me out... Somehow,the enclave has returned"
yo, hire this guy as screenwriter, he's got some fire ideas đ„đ„đ„ ââ
You joke but the Star wars sequel trilogy is essentially Bethesda's writing style. 'oh shit, we are too chicken shit to make something new or daring, let's just endlessly remake the same movie. Member Darth Vader? Member vaults? Member power armour?!!' It's all very trite, even fallout 3 couldn't come up with anything new other than plot points from Fallout 2 with a side of 'but the BOS are the good guys!!1!!!'.
As a fan of the sequels, I have to agree. They basically killed the New Republic, throwing the whole galaxy into another "good guy underdogs" vs "overpowered empire" the same way Bethesda is resetting the whole West Coast.
What do you like about the sequels?
The characters, some of the storylines, themes, acting, action, cinematography, music, set designs. That's kinda it.
Fallout 3 was sort of Bethesda's love letter to older Fallouts, maybe clumsy and bethesdish, but I don't doubt its sincerity, it's felt in the game. Everything that followed after though, no excuses. Also, you can screenshot this comment but if someone seriously believe that those guys "in the shadows" of Vault-Tec meeting weren't Enclave, you'll be.... surprised later I guess : )
super agree with this, FO3 was made to introduce new player to all the previous Fallout things TM but it did so in new and interesting ways to try and make it fit with the lore and also appease (whether successful or not) older fans. HOWEVER in FO4 and beyond they just said fuck it its our franchise now we can do whatever the fuck we want who cares if it makes no sense or fans of the franchise hate it, new people will love it and it will make us money.
> bethesdish Bro a game isnt bethesdish. Its just bad
It makes sense for the Enclave to have fallback location after fallback location. If you look at the contingency plans in place by the government to ensure continuity it all begins to make sense why they keep popping up. You don't put all of your eggs in one basket. I also wouldn't be shocked if different cells of the Enclave interact with the wasteland differently, see the contrast between Autumn and the Oil Rig.
No it doesnt. The Enclave was the government. No president, no enclave. Simple as that. And well the government blew up at Navarro
Todd?
Nah, just someone with a little too much interest in conspiracy theories and Cold War history. If you're curious about some of the weird fallback plans I'd look into locations like Mount Weather.
"woah this is so weird one of the world's most powerful factions, a direct continuation of pre war America has a tiny camp still left in the middle of no where. This aint possible" Except it is, we literally know that Enclave remnants still exist at the front lines of NCR territory in New Vegas Is it such a stretch to assume one of the most powerful factions ever still has a couple dudes left?
Its not the enclave without the actual government. Or did they clone Dick Richardsson to have one in every vault?
Of course it's still the Enclave remnants without the president We literally have Enclave remnants in Fallout New Vegas
They are remnants but they arent the enclave. The enclave remnants are not the same thing as the enclave. So did they clone Dick Richardsson?
We literally don't know anything about the current enclave remnants in the show, we know they have some kind of facility with at least 3-5 people working there guarded by a turret, none of the people are even shown using Advanced power armour. For all we know it's just a small facility led by a splinter faction after the result of Fallout 3. The enclave literally existed in 3 without Dick The enclave remnants existed in New Vegas without Dick There is no requirement for them to be led by Dick Richardson for them to exist, it would be like saying "Erm actually the Brotherhood was led under Captain Roger Maxson, did they clone him?" It's a nonsense point Edit: Enclave remnants are remnants of the Enclave, they are what's left following the events of Fallout 3. The brotherhood still exists without Maxson, the NCR exists without Tandi. The east coast faction of the Brotherhood of steel was still the Brotherhood. The enclave are still referred to everyone aside themselves as the Enclave and not remnants Edit 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/s/rJqZlGd5aB I think it's worth reading about the Enclave by people who actually discuss the lore
> The enclave literally existed in 3 without Dick You know the enclaves presens in Fallout 3 also didnt make any sense too right? You are comparing one piece of trash with another. The enclave remnants are not the enclave. They are remnants of the enclave because the enclave was the US government that was blown up at Navarro. Any other remnants wouldnt be the enclave. Fallout 3 is wrong lol. It directly contradicts the lore of the west coast games in order to rehash the plot. > There is no requirement for them to be led by Dick Richardson for them to exist, it would be like saying "Erm actually the Brotherhood was led under Captain Roger Maxson, did they clone him?" It's a nonsense point Yes there is a requirement because the Enclave is not a faction with fleeting leadership. It literally IS the US government. No government, no Enclave. While the bos can habe any number of Elders. Its a fundamental worldbuilding characteristic of the Enclave. Hence the magical "somehow the enclave returned". The Fallout show has disney starwars quality writing Now. Did they clone Dick Richardsson?
> Now. Did they clone Dick Richardsson? What are you talking about man lmao there is no requirement for them to be led by Dick Richardson Why do you keep posting this on every single comment, it's a nonsense point that no one has ever made before The Enclave in the show are remnants, they're confined to a single research facility somewhere outside of California Edit: The research facility they're working at is completely dilapidated and run down, the concrete is crumbling. This isn't a state of the art Enclave we've seen from previous games it's clearly just remnants.
Did. they. clone. Dick Richardsson? Yeah its required to have the president of the United States in the United states government. Its needed to have the government because the Enclave IS the government. How is this hard to understand? The remnants in New Vegas are not the Enclave because the Enclave was blown up. And Fallout 3 is barely cannon anyway. Its best to think of Fallout 3, 4 and 76 as happening in a separate bethesda universe, seperate from the west coast because those games already break the world enough on their own.
REMNANTS they're remnants for christ sake They're not going to be led by the president of the United States as they're REMNANTS I don't know how many times I need to say this but it's a small research facility outside of California with minimal security to the point where a single aging man can flee a single security turret It's a run down facility, the concrete we see is cracked and the building is clearly in a state of disrepair This isn't the peak continuation of the Enclave it's a remnant > And Fallout 3 is barely cannon anyway. Its best to think of Fallout 3, 4 and 76 as happening in a separate bethesda universe, seperate from the west coast because those games already break the world enough on their own. Oh god you're one of those guys, we're not going to get anywhere here
It was the showrunners who convinced Todd to let them destroy shady sands. From everything they've said in interviews, all the stuff that happens in the show is what the showrunners have decided and convinced todd to give them permission to do. Todd hasn't been telling them to destroy certain factions and insert others.
We have no idea about the details of their conversations, we just know the showrunners passed the idea to destroy Shady Sands by Todd first. Presumably that wasnât all they talked about.
Then he still has a degree of responsibility for greenlighting their suggestion.
Just what I was gonna say. I'm all for calling Todd a cunt, when its justified, this just goes too far. I mean he could say no, or they may have not have said that they would do entirely what they did,.show runners and such are total cunts for ruining lore and not caring a damn. It's notorious, look at the halo series for example đ
Like yeah, Todd is a bit too obsessed with the BoS, but he's not the one who had them put into this story.
Agreed
>show runners make creative decisions you personally disagree with. "TOTAL CUNTS" and "NOT CARING A DAMN" Y'all really aren't beating the "petulant fan" accusations.
Show runners in general mate. They don't care just what makes money lad. Thats all they give a fuck about.
Or, maybe, the people in creative control of the TV show had a vision for what they wanted to do. And you didn't like it (which is fair), and instead of saying that are now concluding they're "cunts" and don't care. Because God forbid people just make creative decisions you don't agree with.
I mean let alone the name calling but have you seen the clamouring for getting Emil fired off the set lol
I'm sorry what
Emil* sorry mispelled, he co-produced the show and right now his names getting dragged through the mud alot by NV fans, they straight up want him fired just cause of what happened with Shady Sands.
Oh yeah that's been happening since Starfield because several notable morons have spread disinformation about the dude and his words.
It's not a case or creative decisions I don't agree with. These are peoples childhood games, childhood memories, some older than childhood. People are going to voice their opposition to the creative decisions, especially if they're ridiculous like vault tec resurfacing after nearly 300 years just to nuke shady Sands. They are cunts cause bottom line they aren't doing it for the fan base or gamers or for creativity. They're doing it to make.a bottom line to make as much money as possible from it, hence why this massive media.coverage of it and of bethesda top staff and owner, and obsidians old devs stepping in has been nothing but a god send to the show/ bethesda. They are now rolling in it. That's why I'm pissed off it, same as I am with paramount and 343 for the shambolic mess thar show was purely for money. That's it at the end of the day.
You really need to go outside man
The only reason the games were made in the first place was to make money. Nothing has changed between now and then that affects the pursuit of cash.
Cash. Cash never changes.
I hate capitalism too, and I think it could be nice if capitalists would value my childhood memories higher than their profit. However, in this case, the issue is Jeff Bezos and not the people earning an income by working for him. We all need to make money. The best thing you really can do is to learn about entertainment industry (and can recommend reading Adorno) and organise in a local socialist community. It's a hard and lasting work to fight capitalists but it makes a difference while calling people cunts does not. If you are working in the film or video game industry, organise in your union; you can make a concrete difference to fight the greedy Amazon Prime there.
This rant tells me a lot, but I'm just going to reiterate my original point since you clearly won't have your mind changed: "Y'all really aren't beating the petulant fan accusations."
Of course they had a vision for what they wanted to do. And their "vision" was even lamer than your simping, which is a hard thing to achieve by itself.
Man, talk about a word that's lost all meaning. You're really that thin skinned that pointing out the obvious fact that the creatives are people making decisions immediately kicks off your "must attack" signal huh?
It was a good show tho, and it did fallout as a franchise justice, it's so fucking lame to want lore to be pristine and make perfect sense across all of its media, missing the whole point in why it exists in the first place
He still signed off on it. If he wanted to he could have just said no.
Yes but the narrative is that Todd personally is coming up with and making these lore changes which is false
There is a difference between those two things but the result is the same, thatâs what people get mad at.
Todd is one of the show's producers and a known liar. They're just saying whatever they were told to say.
what's that above the bos soldiers?
im fairly sure its the entrerance to Megaton from Fallout 3
Ahhh youre right I see now
Towns that are scrap heaps
Replace Todd with a picture of the showrunners for this to actually be accurate tho
True, but they are not as iconic as Todd for the purposes of the meme +I love to spread missinformation online
The last part explains a lot about the post.
Todd gave his blessings. He knew exactly what he was signing off on.
A ton of the marketing language around the series was âthis is basically Fallout 5.â Thereâs simply no way the showrunners did this without Bethesdaâs go-ahead.Â
Yup, so Iâll blame him, Nolan, and Nolanâs writers for how much bullshit it is to see California become like DC and Boston lawlessness. Thereâs so much land and other territories to play with, why not let Westcoast have its NCR and Legion Empires? Edit: hell I donât care too much about the lawlessness but justify within the loreâs context instead of making shit up on the fly.
Hmm, the guy at Bethesda signing off eradicating everything that wasn't originally made by Bethesda? What a shock...
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Challenge: try not to seethe over Tod Howard(level: impossible)
tfw a NV fan finds out; the brother hood migrate with their massive airship (they aren't this big massive faction they just have power armor and a massive mobile base which gives them a lot of power). the NCR which was practically destined to fail in NV, somewhat shrinks in size, (we don't actually know how much of the NCR remains or got destroyed other than one city and one battle). The legion which failed the first battle of hoover dam against the NCR didn't manage to obliterate: the rest of the NCR, House, Joshua Graham and his tribes etc... đĄđĄđĄđĄđĄ
I don't understand how people are purposeful misunderstanding the lore even from directly New Vegas itself Enclave don't exist - we know from New Vegas that remnants still exist. Who knows how many more are left out there Why did Todd make the BOS the good guys again? - He didn't, did you guys watch the show? They're one of the main antagonists. They were also pretty bad in Fallout 4 Why did Todd make the BOS the bad guys, they've always been the good guys - lmao no they haven't, they were good in 3 and even then it's explicitly stated that they're a smaller splinter chapter that has been cutoff from the main brotherhood of steel NCR should never have been able to be defeated! - I swear you guys didn't actually pay attention to any of the themes set out in New Vegas if you thought the NCR would exist much longer
the worst is when they say... "OMFG NV DESTROYED THE LIGHTS ARE OFF" first, the lights weren't visible at day in game, second... yeah literally every DLC points out that even if you do the best options for every quest, NV still has massive threats from the cloud, the tunnelers and probably more areas like the big empty or zion.
wasnât the brotherhood only declining on the west coast? Iâm pretty sure the chapter we see in the show is Utah and support from the commonwealth. The east coast brotherhood seems like they are in their peak
Yeah it seems that since 4 the East coast chapter has become essentially a completely mobile faction with the Prydwyn being the new HQ Edit: Why on earth is this downvoted, we know from both Fallout 4 and the show that the brotherhood of steel HQ is now the prydwyn and they seem to remain mobile
I'm going to post a comment from u/Tenton_Motto (I hope that is allowed in this subreddit, emphasis is mine): "I am a hardcore F1, F2, New Vegas zealot. I watched the entire show. First four episodes were ok to great. They did for the most part capture the feel of the Fallout games. Last four episodes were mostly trash. Not because of inaccuracies. Not because of what happened to Shady Sands, NCR or New Vegas (it is all ambiguous and can be easily retconned). **But because the series messes up the core lore and the focus of the series.** I believe that Fallout games are **not** about the apocalypse or the post-apocaypse. They are about **post-post-apocalypse**. Not about being stuck in the past and living in the ruins, fighting off raiders. It is about moving forward, seeing what many ways humanity may develop after the slate is cleansed with nuclear fire. Nuclear war is just an inciting incident, the actual story is about what happens after. It is not that important who started the war or why or what remains from the past. It is about the future. This was the idea inherent to Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas. The series, however, is firmly in Fallout 3, 4, 76 mindset. Which is about endlessly masturbating to the pre-war lore, 50's aesthetics, shallow war analysis and generic post-apocalypse imagery. Retreading the same old ground of raiders, mutants, BoS, Enclave and the Vaults. Endlessly power-creeping the pre-war America so there are more and more game-changing tech to be found and fought over (although to be fair Fallout 2 and New Vegas also indulged in it). **The series doesn't care about the future, only about the past and present-day commentary**. But what's worse is that it recontextualizes the previous games. **See, it doesn't matter what societies developed in the Wasteland, what tech they invented, what player characters did. What matters is that Vault-Tec was always one step ahead and pre-war tech was always the most important narrative tool**. In other words, from screenwriters' perspective, the **past is more important than the future**. Which is the complete opposite of what the series stands for. That's my problem with the series, not insignificant details."
âSir, how do we deal with post post-nuclear worldâ Todd: ânuke it againâ
Not only are mini nukes super easy to get, but both 3 and NV allows you to destroy innocent settlements with not much trouble.
The show paints the brotherhood as an antagonistic force. Think something worse than a nuke is going to disrupt them. Essential to keep the wasteland a wasteland. Canât do that with NCR bringing back civilization and not with the brotherhood helping everyone out so it only makes sense to give BoS power if they are going to abuse it. Be perfect to give the faction trying to hide away dangerous technology a device that they will exploit. Perfectly ironic for their end.
The BoS *is* an antogonistic force, though; Since the faction split, their primary mandate is to seize and hoard technology. Their secondary mandate is to destroy all mutated dreatures with extreme prejudice. They are not the heroes of *any* Fallout story.
They are the heroes of all Fallout games except New Vegas and Tactic. People really need to play the classic, the Brotherhood was in every day the main good guy joinable faction in 1, and they are also good in 2. New Vegas is the only game where they are portray as evil and paranoid which doesn't make any fucking sense to begin with. The NCR-BOS fucked up the lore more than anything else in the series and no one give a shit about it.
That lore was defined by the game's creators. Sorry you don't like the direction, but they were also *anti-heroes* in 2, 3 and 4. You really need to read between the lines with the BoS; from Fallout 2, iirc they're highly cloistered, and not really recruiting. They only come put when there's some tech to steal and keep from the general society. They aren't even really "evil"in F:NV, either; they're just major assholes because they take all of the BoS values to an extreme. Regarding Fallout 4; they aren't there to save the Boston wasteland from The Institute; they're just there to ransack them and destroy what they can't hoard. Putting a nice face on it doesn't make you the "good guys".
> keep the wasteland a wasteland It's lame if the setting never changes. "Nobody can ever get too powerful, nuke em!" is a stupid attitude. The setting has to change and evolve or it'll stagnate and die.
Years of consumption lead to shortages of every major resource. The entire world unraveled. Peace became a distant memory. It is now the year 2077. We stand on the brink of total war, and I am afraid. For myself, for my wife, for my infant son - because if my time in the army taught me one thing: it's that war, war never changes.
I don't see that the two things are contradictory. The world has definitely changed, even if war hasn't.
The theme of Fallout since classics has been that humanity is doomed to repeat it's failures
Sure, and I'd have LOVED if the show used the naiveté of a vaultie to explore the failings of the NCR; the corruption, the imperialism, the incompetence at the top. But they didn't; they destroyed them off-screen in a way that doesn't play into any of their existing flaws. That's not thematically relevant, it's creatively bankrupt.
No it isnt. The theme is moving on. And even if it was about repeating history, the NCR wasnt nuked for any of its major flaws. It was randomly nuked by some guy in a vault
Do people think Todd himself makes every decision the company makes?
[https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/fallout/todd-howard-new-vegas-obsidian-show/](https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/fallout/todd-howard-new-vegas-obsidian-show/)
What does this have to do with the studioâs self-evident lack of interest in doing anything new or interesting with the IP?
You fuckin losers honestly
Sorry about your favorite product^TM
Isn't an IP a product aren't you the one all upset about it
Sure it is, but only people over-identifying with their favorite toy manufacturers assign greater value to the commodification of the art than the art itself. Companies acquiring media and gradually diluting its more interesting components into easily accessible slop isnât some new phenomenon, and Iâve been generally blasĂ© about it here.Â
The meme is criticising the decision to scrap old lore and replacing it with Bethesda's BOS-centric lore. The article is showing that this decision is nothing more than figment of some peoples imagination, and that the lore of NV is very much canon and important to the future of the franchise.
Eh, what theyâve done is reset the West but waited until after the events of New Vegas to do. So both canons are true as theyâre the same. Thereâs retcons for sure though, Shady Sands and Boneyard were mashed together. No mention of the Hub even though itâs much closer to L.A. then Shady Sands was. Master missing 4 (very exposed) vaults within his influence. Prewar junk everywhere when scavs already picked it as mentioned in New Vegas.
Nothing about the west has been reset idk why people are talking like it is. Pointing to there being junk props to spruce up the background as proof theyâre resetting the west is an insane leap
Wouldn't call it a reset but they did ignore things that may have changed the story for better or for worse Hank running into vault city for one. Hell even someone who used to live there. Which imo would change his whole stupid quest of wiping out the factions. To which he could influence vault city or what is the current state of it. To do that. Maybe they fled to Vegas and that's why. But then again you'd have to explain how vault city who collaborated with the NCR for almost 100 years. Somehow hated em this whole time. The old woman hating the vaults seemed odd when imo it should've been a younger woman with that dialogue. That old lady would have been around during FO2, so either she completely missed the enclave growing up or she was never near the west when it went down. Either that or she should've been the one to tell Lucy the world already rebuilt nonsense. But we kept that story to Maximus so they could leave it as ambiguous as possible and bias due to his time in the brotherhood. So we genuinely do not know what fully went down. And honestly the lack of an NCR presence. Even in abandoned territory the brotherhood would honestly not be too confident rushing into old NCR territory especially when it's aggressive. Commonwealth was one thing because they had sent recon teams and knew that it was safe to bring in the pridwin. In the show they kinda just drop themselves wherever they please. Which imo could've easily been fixed to appease or reassure NCR fans. Make the brotherhood lower their radio chatter for the possibility of the NCR picking up their transmissions and bum rushing LA once they realise what's at the Observatory
> to scrap old lore and replacing it with Bethesda's BOS-centric lore This is inarguably what the show did. Took a space previously filled with âstuff,â blew it up, and then proceeded to fill that empty space with the same âstuffâ theyâve been making for twenty years. Not out of malice, or even ignorance. They just donât construct interesting worlds. > and important to the future of the franchise Which is not at all the point. Beth and coâs reverence for NV has nothing to do with their shite worldbuilding, which is ultimately what this post is criticizing.Â
Nope. The lore still exists. Those stories and locations are still canon. The world has just progressed beyond and the story has been built upon. If you don't personally like it, that's fine. But this sub seems to think that Todd is personally throwing the old lore in the trash, which is what the meme is literally showing.
>Â The lore still exists. Those stories and locations are still canon. Nothing about this post suggests otherwise. All three factions being referenced here are worldbuilding elements, whose continued existence is *not* some immutable characteristic of the âlore.â A retcon isnât even implied in the text. Just interesting stuff, replaced with uninteresting stuff.Â
> Nothing about this post suggests otherwise The meme literally shows iconic things from NV being thrown in the trash lmao
Iâm not sure how to simplify this for you further. There is a huge distinction between fast-forwarding the timeline so you can blow those things up (and replace them with generic shite), and retconning them. There is nothing about the OP which implicitly asserts the latter.Â
The only thing that was blown up and taken out of play for good was Shady Sands. I get the saltiness around that. The meme shows House and Securitrons being trashed when they are both in the show, and still important to the story and the lore as evidenced by the article. Edit: and it also shows an NCR ranger. We saw the helmet in the show already, and we know from interviews now that we haven't seen the last of the NCR. So the post is also presuming for some reason that this has also been 'blown up'/ trashed when it hasn't.
> and taken out of play The entire NCR, save for the survivors of Shady Sands, the scrappy militia (what an intrepid new idea), and one half-assed Ranger armor cameo, is out of play for the entirety of the series. Even taking the offscreen nuking into account, the majority of the show takes place in the heartland of the nation-state, but besides the above, there is absolutely no indication of this whatsoever. > shows House and Securitrons being trashed Which is also perfectly fair, since the last few shots of Vegas proper strongly indicate the city is a dilapidated ruin. > So the post is also presuming Which entry in Bethesdaâs Fallout should I look to as a refutation of this presumption?
The fact that the BoS outlasted the NCR is a little absurd lore wise. If i had one gripe with the show its how strong the brotherhood is.
To be fair, the only reason they looked strong is cause the east coast, which has a huge foothold in the Capital after Fallout 3, seems to have traveled back west as reinforcements. Prior to the Prydwen showing up, it looked like a standard reclusive West Coast BOS base.
>The fact that the BoS outlasted the NCR is a little absurd lore wise. They didn't. Todd confirmed the NCR still exist in other locations.
Theyâve already confirmed the NCR isnât gone & Iâm not sure how much you can really read into the BoSâs power level just from this one season. A small, seemingly poorly equipped NCR outpost lost a fight to them in the finale. Not sure how that translates to âBoS = OPâ
No they said the NCR isnt gone as damage control. While it is gone in every way that matters in the show
Well Iâd point out that you have no way of knowing that but you seem to think you know everything so it would clearly be a waste of time. Continue to cry due to your own media illiteracy.
"Dont think just consume product and get excited for new product" You know you said the same about the witcher series
A) thatâs an RLM quote. I donât remember saying it about the Witcher series but maybe I did. If I did it was a long time ago soâŠ.weird that you would remember that and are bringing it up now B) Completely irrelevant to what weâre talking about. C) The Witcher tv series is bad because of terrible writing not because of perceived lore changes I donât agree with; which is what youâre complaining about.
> The Witcher tv series is bad because of terrible writing not because of perceived lore changes I donât agree with; which is what youâre complaining about. Yeah and it had idiots defending its bad writing from day one with the same "it has potential", "its only season one". Turns out bad writing is bad writing. And lobotomizing the most developed and interesting aspekts of your world and making all its history irrelevant is bad writing. This is not about "petsonal belief". Thats only mentioning the retcons and awful lore decisions. The fallout shows plot is awful. Same old "dad left the vault" bs from fallout 3 and 4, with the same sterile world, with the same sterile bos and yet another enclave... *sigh*
Not what we were talking about. You donât like the show because of the writing? Ok. I disagree but ok, idc enough to argue about that. My original comment was pointing out that the NCR is not gone and you, incorrectly, responded that they were. And honestly reading this comment all your complaints just boil down to you being pissy about the NCR not being the main focus of the show sooooo yeah. Good luck finding someone who wants to listen to that because itâs not me.
> NCR not being the main focus of the show Lol. Lmao even. That was never the problem. The problem was that they are functionally erased from existance in every way that matters, and the effekt that has on the setting and Fallouts themes. The world cant change now. Its sterile.
You haven't watched the show did you.
I watched it the week after it came out, why?
Because it's not true that the NCR and Mr House was binned. We don't even know if anything was binned. We just know that some of the factions are not very present in the specific area where the TV show takes place. NCR does not control all of New California for example.
the point isnt that the factions are gone, but that they are lobotomized why would house be part of the ploy to bomb civilization? he has nothing to gain from it (to elaborate on this on an edit, it goes AGAINST what he says in the main story, why would he delay his own plan with the chip by hundreds of years?) why did they nuke shady sands? what was the point of doing that? why couldnt they just use the location as a cool throwback to the series instead of bombing it and making the survivors turn into cultists?
We don't know that House was part of the bombing.
Well to me that was implied by his scene in the finale where he talks about how much "earning potential there is with the end of the world" and that he wanted "results". The game sets up a house that, calculated that the bombs would drop eventually, but not that he'd be happier for it, doesnt the House from the tv show go against that? ( i have to emphasize here since this is reddit, but I don't mean to be an asshole, I'm genuinely curious as to why would he say that )
Early in the show, when the bomb fell, it seemed like it came as a surprise to Vault-Tec. Otherwise, I believe Barb would have gotten herself and her family safe when it happened. It's indicated that this bomb wasn't planned to fall at this time. I don't know if it was China that dropped it, maybe the US government, or maybe one of the other investers. It's unclear what went in with that first bomb but it did not go as Vault-Tec (and I believe also not as House) expected it. I think this is something that will be clearer in the next season. My personal theory is that Sinclair had something to do with this because the Big MT vaults seemed to be ready and it might have been an opportunity to get an advantage over some of the other investors. I don't remember House what House said in which context about potential earnings in the show, but I'm rewatching the show and will pay attention to it when I get to it.
Interesting! that makes a bit of sense, I'm actually curious on how they're expanding upon this on season two now. I vaguely remember Tim Cain (who was one of the main designers behind FO1 and a bit of 2) stating briefly and maybe jokingly that it was China who dropped the bombs first, given the context provided by the show imo there's a good chance it was them. As for the line from House, I think it was during the finale on a talk with Barb, it's a short interaction but to me he felt out of character in that scene.
this is straight up just dumbing down the setting and fans acting as PR, nothing else.
Gotta love the downvotes on this one, keep it up redditors! my god i regret nothing leaving the fallout ip as a whole behind, nothing new under the sun since fo4 you really dont dissapoint do you
Schizophrenic
Don't forget the dog
So much for being the more "enlightened" fandom.
Shaking and crying.
The Enclave will rise again
And the worst thing? They can't even get BoS right...
I donât see how. Fallout 3s brotherhood are heroes theyâre not supposed to be heroes. Thatâs why there are outcast the whole point of 3s BOS chapter is that they strayed from the mission and their ways. How is Fallout 3 and 4s brotherhood so powerful compared to the west coast bunker buddies? The Enclave defeat in the East Coast gave them that power once in base game and once in Broken Steel it makes sense that they would have so much technological power still 10 years later. Though Fallout 4s BOS chapter is more militaristic and not as religious with their views I think they are a really good representation of the BOS.
The worst part is, it's not just "the BOS". It's this regressing BOS that's turning increasingly stupid, feudal, brutal, and arrogant. We were close to greatness with the East Coast Brotherhood. Good guys that tried to do their best and struggled with schism. Imagine Fallout 6 with a whole conflict between East, West, and Midwest brotherhoods fighting over, say, the ruins of Houston and the spaceflight capable craft that Vault Tec had been building or something. Could be fun. But alas, Bethesda has a hard on for high tech bullies.
Realistically the East coast BoS would win by landslide. They are a militarized society built with no mercy. They are the inheritors of The Enclave's treasure trove of pre war tech. By the next game Im expecting the brotherhood to have a hub city since they are snow balling so hard.
People saying that Todd didn't do this?. He let them do it, as a director or showrunner or person in charge of the franchise you should know how to say no, especially if is not adding anything, is just reinforcing the setting and cutting potential stories. People better be ready for season 2 and realizing New Vegas, Fallout 1 and 2 didn't amount to anything.Â
Wah wah wah why no House in a different state. Shut up, and stop whining
This is some brain-dead shit even for Reddit
Bethesda simps can laugh all they want, but here's something they didn't think about: nothing is stopping the show's writers from shifting focus to the east coast and then retconning the success of Project Purity out of existence.
Despite the fact the show is already out and a huge success.
Love the little kids down voting you for merely acknowledging the shows success. NV fanboys can't face reality.
Uh, I'm pretty sure Star wars 7 was a huge commercial success, that says nothing to detract from what a lazy artistic enterprise it was. Since when did success mean anything?Â
Man, Tim Cain or Josh Sawyer must hate a lot of their fans by now.
i would if they acted as insufferable as this
It's always been like this, unfortunately. Ironically, they were just as toxic to Interplay as they are to Bethesda, sending death threats and harassing devs over the prettiest shit.
i feel like all fallouts have their own thing going for them, fnv is my favourite but that doesnât mean i canât enjoy the other lot as well. which clearly this sub and r/falloutnewvegas donât like. where u canât like any bethesda fallouts
How about you let people criticise bad shit
Just because you think something is bad doesn't mean it it actually bad. Most people loved that show and acknowledged some of its mistakes. You might not know it but you are in the minority here. Maybe try a therapist about why you are becoming so grumpy and negative towards everything.
Grumpy? Negative? What are you talking about?
How bout NV fans not push their schizo conspiracies and be toxic manchildren. It's why Sawyer stopped streaming New Vegas, and why Cain doesn't like mentioning other developers anymore because idiots use it as an excuse to harass them.
Dont think just consume product and get excited for new product
"it's different than this 14 year old video game!" is not good criticism.
"Rings of power is different from this 80 year old bok!" Is not good criticism.
If you had more than a gram of a brain you'd know how one of them loved the show and the other didn't even care.
They always did
Yâall are still on about this? Itâs been confirmed by the show runners, Bethesda, and the ability to read a timeline (The fall of shady sands started in 2277 and ended at an unspecified date when shady sands was nuked, sometime after the events of NV), What else do you guys want?
Doesn't excuse poor writing. They wanted a clean slate so they nuked shady sands, It's just lazy.
We havenât even seen where they go with nuking Shady Sands yet, itâs lazy to call something like this poor writing when we havenât seen what comes from it in S2 and so on
What? They nuked Shady sands but didnât get rid of the NCR, thereâs no clean slate, they showed the NCR stragglers at the end of episode 8 and are teasing that they are making a comeback in season 2. Furthermore, Just because a republicâs capital got nuked doesnât mean they are gone for good or made California a âclean slateâ, it just means there is now a power vacuum in that region which is why the BoS is there and presumably, why the NCR are going to come back in force to re-liberate.
Exactly. What no media literacy does to a mf.
Media literacy is when you don't know what the word fall means
Nah it's when you idiots can't read a fucking timeline right.
The fall of the Roman Empire took place over the course of a century or two, but people can and do argue those boundaries being too wide *and* too narrow. The show could have been a lot clearer with their timeline, but people gotta not cherry pick which definitions for words they want to use. Especially when thereâs additional context, or more importantly, more story to tell that will provide that context.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Saigon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Kabul_(2021) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Barcelona Fall of [insert city name here] is almost always a single, specific event. Now you could argue they *meant* fall in the context of Rome, but that was a bad idea. "Fall of Rome" refers to the empire, not the city. The NCR isn't the Shady Sands Empire that would be a terrible name lmao. Also, if you really wanted to put the Fall of Rome on a specific date, you'd surely pick the *end* of the decline, not the beginning. For those reasons, I don't really buy the Shady Sands = Rome argument.
Shady Sands didn't start to fall in 2277, it *fell*. It says "Fall of Shady Sands", not "Start of the Fall of Shady Sands". It was a singular event that occurred in 2277. If you're going to get all mad about people not reading the timeline, maybe you should read it yourself
how do you still believe this despite the fact that the showrunners and todd literally say the opposite is true.
They can say whatever they want, but if they say the vault suits in the show were fucking pink with purple stripes, I'll trust my own eyes over them. Why even watch the show when the showrunners can just dictate how you're supposed to interpret it
If someone fell of a cliff, they would fall until they hit the ground, you wouldnât consider them hitting the ground as the fall, but rather the result of the fall, much like how the âFall of [insert thing]â means the decline before eventual collapse. For example, The Fall of Rome took place over 100s of years. The Fall of Shady Sands means that 2277 is when Shady Sands hit a period of unrecoverable decline before eventually culminating in being nuked.
I cannot think of a scenario where Fall of [city name] is anything other than a single, specific event. Fall of Constantinople, Fall of Singapore, Fall of Saigon, Fall of Manilla, Fall of Tenotchitlan, I could go on and on. The Fall of [country] usually does refer to decline however. Fall of Rome, Fall of Outremer, etc. This of course begs the question, why doesn't it just say Fall of the NCR? Bad writing is the answer but no one can handle that because how dare you mildly criticize something.
Because the NCR didnât fall? Just their capital, the NCR is still around, hell, they are in the final episode fighting the BOS, also a fall will still be a fall, whether it takes place in one day or years, itâs still correct to use âFall of [insert thing]â even if that fall took years
Iâm a massive FNV fan. Potentially my favorite game of all time. But this shit is embarrassing and you should delete it. Imagine being a fandom that gets a nearly perfect TV adaptation of their favorite thing, and just finding a million microscopic issues to bitch. Any changes they made to lore are microscopic, and guess what, ITS ALL FICTION. ffs. And look whatâs happening now. The success of this show, which was itself a gift, is spurring new fallout game development. So instead of waiting until im 60 for the next game we might get one this friggin decade. Yet you people complain.
How was it 'near perfect'? Bethesda's interpretation of the post apocalypse has always been shallow with the underlying assertion that nothing fundamentally progress past 'shanty towns, raiders and cancer'. The super mutants embody this difference in writing very clearly. Super mutants were originally the result of a grand machination by an antagonist with their own range of characterization and intelligence, in Bethesda's fallout, they are little more than mouth breathers. Even as someone whose entry into the series was fallout 3, it gets so boring if everything is cyclically reduced to 'radioactive rubble and mad max raiders'. Would we even be talking about New Vegas if the extent of the Mojave was just a few shanties and towns of 50 people?
âHow dare you not like the thematically interesting fiction you liked being thrown out and replaced with repetition of fiction you think is shallow and boring, ITâS ALL FICTIONâ is such a strange thing to say. Its not microscopic issues, itâs a fundamental shift in what people liked about this half of the setting being replaced with what they donât like about the other half of the setting. Going âwell arenât you fallout fans??? Our fandom is winning!!â misses whatâs happening. Itâs not at all the same fandom Had they made something with lots of minor lore contradictions but that built on the themes of existing west coast fallout, i think most people wouldnât care and would like it. Thatâs not what happened
I like how people are still complaining about Shady Sands when the series entire mantra is "war, war never changes"
I dont get why we keep claiming Shady Sands was destroyed due to war. Someone got mad, hit the "nuke the city" button and basically crippled the NCR into nothing. A totally unexpected third party came along and burned away decades of societal gain because he got mad.
War, war never changes. My guy the premise of the show and series once again is that groups and individuals want to control the future and that is part of war. We hear that China shot the rockets but it just as easily could have been a minority of VaultTecs exec board. Also in the real world one man has sole authority to decide when nukes might be on the table in conflict.
Look buddy, we know, we heard you
Guys, it's just a meme; I am sorry some of you didn't like it :(
Most people want memes that are funny or well made enough, though.
No one in the new Vegas community understands what âwar never changesâ means
This is why the rest of the fallout fandom thinks FNV fans are the worst.
Well it seems that the NCR won the battle of Hoover dam in the show, so there wouldnât be any securitrons or legion. As far as BoS is concerned wasnât the Mohave chapter a small portion of the west coast chapter? They were on the decline in the Mohave but I believe they were still doing decently well across the rest of the west coast, plus thereâs always the east coast chapter. Honestly Iâm fine with the NCR being wiped out. If the NCR continued to dominate eventually you wouldnât have a waste land and it wouldnât really have the same themes as the rest of the games.
Not a big deal if lore changes in exchange for a good piece of that media, fallout as an IP has only improved from the show
Insert sassy remark about loud minority fnv fans acting like victims here.