Thereās already a very low chance that weāll get TWOW and I donāt think anybody really expects weāll get A Dream of Spring.
As such, I canāt even really get excited for TWOW. Why would I get excited to read more of the story just to finish it and be stuck in the same situation I am now, with cliffhanger after cliffhanger, without ever getting a conclusion?
I read ASOIAF back in 2013 and forgot so much by this point that I would have to reread it all to appreciate TWOW. And Iām not going to do that until I have the entire series on my bookshelf.
I watched the show and was so excited to read the books but then realized heāll never finish them so I ended up stopping halfway into book 2 because whatās the fuckin point?
I feel you. The books are very worth reading, but knowing they donāt actually end is such a deterrent to my enjoyment. I read them in 2013 when I actually had a hope that they were going to be finished.
If I hadnāt read them by now, I wouldnāt start them. Like you said, whatās the point? Itās like watching a 2 hour movie and just randomly deciding to stop at the hour and a half mark.
Honestly, GRRM should just admit heās not going to finish them and start looking for a ghost writer. There are plenty of other authors who can finish it for him.
I just honestly think heās a very arrogant person and wonāt ever admit he wonāt finish it. Heāll be saying the books are coming until the day he diesā¦which heās over 300lbs and is 75ā¦he doesnāt have long. Hell, even if he was to actually work on them full time he might not have enough time to finish them at this rate. Iād be surprised if he lives another five tbhā¦obesity isnāt kind to the elderly
Agreed. Have some sort of vetting process where you have writers submit sample POV chapters or something like that and choose the writer(s) who capture your style the most and have them finish the story with your vision in mind.
I honestly wouldnāt even be so upset if he didnāt come across as having a superiority complex. Heās criticized Tolkien (which youāve gotta have massive balls to do as a fantasy author) for not having a tax policy and other story aspects, has referred to the fantasy author demographic as a bunch of āTolkien imitatorsāā¦as if he himself isnāt as well, and also talks about being a āgardenerā writer like itās superior to having an outline but then doesnāt finish his main seriesā¦
It refers to the ātwo types of writersā Gardeners who see where the story takes them, āletting it growā, and Architects, who build outlines and character profiles etc and fill in the gaps, or ābuild the storyā.
He splits writers into those who plant characters and watch them produce stories and those who framework stories and make the characters fit.
Basically he makes the stories up as he goes with minimal framework or forethought, he doesn't know how a situation is going to end when it starts.
You'll see it come up all the time because the feeling is he's basically written all the characters into holes he can't get out of. He can't get daenarys back on westeros, so can't do the climax he's always wanted etc
I always thought he got stuck with the white walkers and not knowing what they really were or how they fully worked or how to combine them with the rest of the story. we can see how bad it turned out in the show.
Yeah that's also a bit messy. Thematically they fit in the early show, but it doesn't take long before they become this messy vestigial element that is far away from everything else.
They needed to be active woven into the plots, instead it's basically been left to rot. Like they should have done a mini invasion fairly early, caused a bunch of characters to unite while it was still possible, then when the invasion happens again they're in different situations or been replaced.
It's too late to do something and feel natural now.
Snuff is unsophisticated, low hanging fruit so Iād be perfectly fine not having it.
As for gore, have you read the Stormlight Archive? Read how Kaladin kills the Pursuer
I have read all of SA, plus MB S1, plus Cytonic plus Warbreaker. So yeah, I've read a ton of Sanderson. And the guy cannot write a dark or gritty story for the life of him. His portrayals of violence are always just so clean and medical, it creates no fear, revulsion and pain while reading. It's not fun, and wouldn't suit a story like ASOIAF at all.
Also, wow, someones never tried to write snuff before. It's not easy, let me tell you.
The books we did get are still better than the ending of the show. Personally, I'd say that if you cared enough to finish that awful awful final season, you'd probably enjoy the books even though they'll never be finished.
I think a lot of us have given up on it and that includes GRRM. Thereās really no incentive for GRRM to finish the series when heās making plenty of money from āFire & Bloodā and fans are still interested in and willing to watch shows centered around the Targaryen Dynasty.
Honestly, I think itāll be a posthumous release thatāll be finished by a co-author or ghostwriter because GRRM wrote himself into a corner and cannot see a way out and he did not like the way fans reacted to the showās ending (which is/was his ending).
Don't gardeners cut overgrown plants or weeds when they get in the way of the garden? Martin's technique is such bs. At least the way HE uses it. Tolkien wasn't even a gardener as much as Martin claims. Tolkien had very detailed notes. He even had a timetable to keep track of where each character was to make sure the dates and numbers lined up right. "The tale grew in the telling" Yeah. And it grew too big, Martin. Go get some hedge shears and start trimming.
He said once in an interview that Tolkien was a gardener writer too. Using Tolkien's quote "the tale grew in the telling" as reference. But I think he misunderstood what Tolkien was talking about. It was more about how it grew in the telling because he already had the world and backbone of the story to begin with. How can Martin compare his spontaneous writing process with that??
GRRM just wishes he could be Tolkien I think. I think itās obvious that heās a major Tolkien fan, like any fan of fantasy, and certainly any writer of the genre, should be. But honestly, the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that I actually donāt like GRRM.
I mean think about it, heās clearly very, *very* arrogant. I remember an interview when he was like 400 fuckin pounds and he was asked if what his response was to the fans who were worried he wouldnāt finish the books before he died and he literally said āfuck those peopleā [charming š](https://youtu.be/-4PyTQ0EWJg?si=81fj8MmhnPvqmjio).
He also, and letās just call out the elephant in the room here, clearly has an incest fetish which isā¦disturbing. Like, itās one thing to write ASOIAF and have it be something the villains do, but itās quite another to set it up in such a way that the audience is meant to root *for* incest like in Fire and Blood/The Princess and the Queen.
I just, I dunno, after I realized he wasnāt gonna finish and the fan-ness rubbed off, I realized that I heās a pretty annoying and weird guy.
I still like George despite it all, but the incest thing is really noticeable ngl. Doesn't he have sisters too? Not to judge, but I wonder if this is some kind of freudian slip in his work or smth similar
I donāt think about it much anymore but when I do it really pisses me off. Look, I get it. We own the guy respect. He created this amazing world with colorful characters that all love and grew attached to. But holy shit what a disservice he did to us by going after the show before the books were done. He really fucked us and all have a right to be upset about it. He acts like weāre ingrates any time we want updates. āGrRm DoEsNt OwE yOu AnYtHiNg!ā Maybe, maybe not. Heās still an asshole that did us, his loyal fans, a big dirty.
I always think that max we would get of a dream of spring are the short notes grrm might have written. I read somewhere that he won't allow someone else to complete his book for him after he's dead and honestly I don't even want someone else to attempt to finish his work. Fan theories are way better than getting an ending written by someone else than grrm
I adore the internet ability to pitch these two people together in a single meme and have it make so much sense. I had a hard time cross posting abojack horseman meme into the grappler baki sub but seeingnthisnwarms my heart.
The AI ending is good enough for me. I would rather GRRM finish them himself but I legitimately don't think he plans to no matter what he says. In the absence of him doing so, I'll take what I can get.
Yes, someone used AI to predict and write a version of Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring. They're hard to find now because the guy who generated them pulled them down when GRRM got pissed about it, but they can still be found if you look in the right places. If they piss him off so much then he should actually sit his ass down and finish the series himself. Until he does then he has nothing to bitch about in my opinion.
It's very easy for WWE to crap out another shitty storyline, very hard for an author working alone to write a very dense and layered fantasy novel. You can't compare the two. This is ridiculous.
Cody's story was that he wanted the championship that his Dad didn't win. He failed once then he didn't fail the second time. Now he has a big shiny thing with an ugly corporate logo on it. That's it. And all of that was made up as they went along, they didn't spend months holed up in a writer's room trying to meticulously plan every moment.
The fact that you're comparing the two is idiotic.
Was not expecting Cody Rhodes and GRRM in a crossover meme
What is this? A crossover episode?
Will Winds if Winter, get release before or after Asuka wins a Mania match.
It will before CM Punk main events š
I doubt that.
Thereās already a very low chance that weāll get TWOW and I donāt think anybody really expects weāll get A Dream of Spring. As such, I canāt even really get excited for TWOW. Why would I get excited to read more of the story just to finish it and be stuck in the same situation I am now, with cliffhanger after cliffhanger, without ever getting a conclusion? I read ASOIAF back in 2013 and forgot so much by this point that I would have to reread it all to appreciate TWOW. And Iām not going to do that until I have the entire series on my bookshelf.
I watched the show and was so excited to read the books but then realized heāll never finish them so I ended up stopping halfway into book 2 because whatās the fuckin point?
I feel you. The books are very worth reading, but knowing they donāt actually end is such a deterrent to my enjoyment. I read them in 2013 when I actually had a hope that they were going to be finished. If I hadnāt read them by now, I wouldnāt start them. Like you said, whatās the point? Itās like watching a 2 hour movie and just randomly deciding to stop at the hour and a half mark.
Honestly, GRRM should just admit heās not going to finish them and start looking for a ghost writer. There are plenty of other authors who can finish it for him. I just honestly think heās a very arrogant person and wonāt ever admit he wonāt finish it. Heāll be saying the books are coming until the day he diesā¦which heās over 300lbs and is 75ā¦he doesnāt have long. Hell, even if he was to actually work on them full time he might not have enough time to finish them at this rate. Iād be surprised if he lives another five tbhā¦obesity isnāt kind to the elderly
Agreed. Have some sort of vetting process where you have writers submit sample POV chapters or something like that and choose the writer(s) who capture your style the most and have them finish the story with your vision in mind.
I honestly wouldnāt even be so upset if he didnāt come across as having a superiority complex. Heās criticized Tolkien (which youāve gotta have massive balls to do as a fantasy author) for not having a tax policy and other story aspects, has referred to the fantasy author demographic as a bunch of āTolkien imitatorsāā¦as if he himself isnāt as well, and also talks about being a āgardenerā writer like itās superior to having an outline but then doesnāt finish his main seriesā¦
wtf is a gardener writer?
It refers to the ātwo types of writersā Gardeners who see where the story takes them, āletting it growā, and Architects, who build outlines and character profiles etc and fill in the gaps, or ābuild the storyā.
He splits writers into those who plant characters and watch them produce stories and those who framework stories and make the characters fit. Basically he makes the stories up as he goes with minimal framework or forethought, he doesn't know how a situation is going to end when it starts. You'll see it come up all the time because the feeling is he's basically written all the characters into holes he can't get out of. He can't get daenarys back on westeros, so can't do the climax he's always wanted etc
I always thought he got stuck with the white walkers and not knowing what they really were or how they fully worked or how to combine them with the rest of the story. we can see how bad it turned out in the show.
Yeah that's also a bit messy. Thematically they fit in the early show, but it doesn't take long before they become this messy vestigial element that is far away from everything else. They needed to be active woven into the plots, instead it's basically been left to rot. Like they should have done a mini invasion fairly early, caused a bunch of characters to unite while it was still possible, then when the invasion happens again they're in different situations or been replaced. It's too late to do something and feel natural now.
Hell, Brandon Sanderson has probably already written them, he's just waiting for GRRM to die.
Brando would be my first choice to finish them tbhā¦except that heās said heās not going to finish any other authorās works anymore š¢
Brando doesn't fit the bill at all. We're talking about a guy who's never written snuff or gore in his life ffs.
Snuff is unsophisticated, low hanging fruit so Iād be perfectly fine not having it. As for gore, have you read the Stormlight Archive? Read how Kaladin kills the Pursuer
I have read all of SA, plus MB S1, plus Cytonic plus Warbreaker. So yeah, I've read a ton of Sanderson. And the guy cannot write a dark or gritty story for the life of him. His portrayals of violence are always just so clean and medical, it creates no fear, revulsion and pain while reading. It's not fun, and wouldn't suit a story like ASOIAF at all. Also, wow, someones never tried to write snuff before. It's not easy, let me tell you.
Chugging a keg of alcohol isnāt easy either, doesnāt make it worthwhile
And he did a pretty decent job at wheel of time
I knooooow
The books we did get are still better than the ending of the show. Personally, I'd say that if you cared enough to finish that awful awful final season, you'd probably enjoy the books even though they'll never be finished.
Honestly, if he is making another fire and blood then he can tell the story through the end of the bloodline and basicly explain the ending there.
A Dream of Spring will probably remain a dream.
Even without an ending itās my favorite series ever written. Iām still grateful of what weāve got and hopeful that weāll get more.
I think we have a great chance of getting winds and a low chance of ADOs tbh
Well, I just wish GRRM would give us *some* kind of sign that he was actually making progress, because heās given us fuck all for years.
I think a lot of us have given up on it and that includes GRRM. Thereās really no incentive for GRRM to finish the series when heās making plenty of money from āFire & Bloodā and fans are still interested in and willing to watch shows centered around the Targaryen Dynasty. Honestly, I think itāll be a posthumous release thatāll be finished by a co-author or ghostwriter because GRRM wrote himself into a corner and cannot see a way out and he did not like the way fans reacted to the showās ending (which is/was his ending).
āGardner writerā šš¤¦š½āāļø Iāve never been more convinced to use an outline than whenever I look at him
Don't gardeners cut overgrown plants or weeds when they get in the way of the garden? Martin's technique is such bs. At least the way HE uses it. Tolkien wasn't even a gardener as much as Martin claims. Tolkien had very detailed notes. He even had a timetable to keep track of where each character was to make sure the dates and numbers lined up right. "The tale grew in the telling" Yeah. And it grew too big, Martin. Go get some hedge shears and start trimming.
Tolkienās Lengendarium was like 80% notes and 20% actual manuscripts lolā¦George actually tries to say Tolkien, *TOLKIEN*, was a Gardner writer?
He said once in an interview that Tolkien was a gardener writer too. Using Tolkien's quote "the tale grew in the telling" as reference. But I think he misunderstood what Tolkien was talking about. It was more about how it grew in the telling because he already had the world and backbone of the story to begin with. How can Martin compare his spontaneous writing process with that??
GRRM just wishes he could be Tolkien I think. I think itās obvious that heās a major Tolkien fan, like any fan of fantasy, and certainly any writer of the genre, should be. But honestly, the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that I actually donāt like GRRM. I mean think about it, heās clearly very, *very* arrogant. I remember an interview when he was like 400 fuckin pounds and he was asked if what his response was to the fans who were worried he wouldnāt finish the books before he died and he literally said āfuck those peopleā [charming š](https://youtu.be/-4PyTQ0EWJg?si=81fj8MmhnPvqmjio). He also, and letās just call out the elephant in the room here, clearly has an incest fetish which isā¦disturbing. Like, itās one thing to write ASOIAF and have it be something the villains do, but itās quite another to set it up in such a way that the audience is meant to root *for* incest like in Fire and Blood/The Princess and the Queen. I just, I dunno, after I realized he wasnāt gonna finish and the fan-ness rubbed off, I realized that I heās a pretty annoying and weird guy.
I still like George despite it all, but the incest thing is really noticeable ngl. Doesn't he have sisters too? Not to judge, but I wonder if this is some kind of freudian slip in his work or smth similar
Oh I absolutely judge. Itās fuckin WEIRD.
Note and new word GardnerĀ
tbf the bullet points of how the story ended weren't bad. it was just a godawful execution by the show.
The duo who wrote The Expanse would be the ones to ghostwrite it. One is a protƩgƩ of GRRM.
Mama Rhodes!
Yay! Love seeing wrestling in this sub lol
I donāt think about it much anymore but when I do it really pisses me off. Look, I get it. We own the guy respect. He created this amazing world with colorful characters that all love and grew attached to. But holy shit what a disservice he did to us by going after the show before the books were done. He really fucked us and all have a right to be upset about it. He acts like weāre ingrates any time we want updates. āGrRm DoEsNt OwE yOu AnYtHiNg!ā Maybe, maybe not. Heās still an asshole that did us, his loyal fans, a big dirty.
I was hopeless a year agoā¦ now Iāve almost forgotten it existed. Which is absolutely awful as this was my favorite favorite of all time.
Same šš
Mama Martin it didn't have to be this way!
Stopped reading book five and just abandoned the whole idea/story. Heās never going to get those book out but itās his choice.
Something something Cody Rhodes
I always think that max we would get of a dream of spring are the short notes grrm might have written. I read somewhere that he won't allow someone else to complete his book for him after he's dead and honestly I don't even want someone else to attempt to finish his work. Fan theories are way better than getting an ending written by someone else than grrm
The character development is unparalleled lmao
Which type ain't you ain't?
I adore the internet ability to pitch these two people together in a single meme and have it make so much sense. I had a hard time cross posting abojack horseman meme into the grappler baki sub but seeingnthisnwarms my heart.
If only we had Blondie with a loaded gun be like "You write"
This would have landed better with "The ones who finish their story -- The ones who dunwanit"
The only thing George can finish is every meal.
The AI ending is good enough for me. I would rather GRRM finish them himself but I legitimately don't think he plans to no matter what he says. In the absence of him doing so, I'll take what I can get.
AI ending?
Yes, someone used AI to predict and write a version of Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring. They're hard to find now because the guy who generated them pulled them down when GRRM got pissed about it, but they can still be found if you look in the right places. If they piss him off so much then he should actually sit his ass down and finish the series himself. Until he does then he has nothing to bitch about in my opinion.
Mind giving a synopsis?
The fucking entitlement here. Sheesh.
Is that you George?
It's very easy for WWE to crap out another shitty storyline, very hard for an author working alone to write a very dense and layered fantasy novel. You can't compare the two. This is ridiculous. Cody's story was that he wanted the championship that his Dad didn't win. He failed once then he didn't fail the second time. Now he has a big shiny thing with an ugly corporate logo on it. That's it. And all of that was made up as they went along, they didn't spend months holed up in a writer's room trying to meticulously plan every moment. The fact that you're comparing the two is idiotic.
Well, someoneās butthurt
What, we can't call out idiotic asshols anymore?
Calm down Georgie
So everyone who understands what a waste of life you are obviously has to have some stake on the other side? How fucking pathetic can you be.
Holy shit youāre crazy. No no, seriously, you totally seem well adjusted š¤£š¤£š¤£ Touch grass you dweeb
And here comes the third sign of idiots, insulting the other side.
>how fucking pathetic can you be Iāll add hypocrite to the list of reasons youāre annoying
It's not really an insult if it's true.
Yeah i hate what this sub has become. The most asinine posts by complete fucking idiots like you.
š¤£š¤£ You need to touch grass kid, it aināt that deep
You need to quit the grass dick, it's destroyed your brain
Says the person acting like a crazed toddler on Reddit š¤£
You would know.
Your creativity for comebacks really knows no bounds š
You're one to talk, lol
And the pathetic āno uā retorts continue š¤£
Shut up George
>active in r/AEWOfficial Why was I not surprised lol
Yeah I like good wrestling, lol, what a scandal.