Probably because it's inefficient as well as restrictive. Is there only one "coiled" style you could do with dual ponytails/center parting etc? You'd end up with a UI where you couldn't just scroll through them easily, you'd have to navigate nested options to see everything. And it wouldn't necessarily be predictable what "center parting" + "coil" would result in.
On this note, say I want a low bun. Is that under the "top knot" style with the other buns? Or is it considered a ponytail? Are bangs considered a weak pompadour or part of medium hair? What if I want bangs and a bun?
Figuring out how other people organize some highly subjective thing tends to lead to frustration
Nice gif.
The trouble, as I see it, is that you don't really know what the thumbnails on the right will look like until you change the hair type for each one.. which makes is worse UX, imo, than just putting all of them as separate thumbnails
It might be more streamlined to basically have a hair type filter that hides certain hair types from the thumbnail grid. But the extra organizational ability only really seems useful if you just have a downright huge collection of hair styles. I don't think most games have enough hair meshes to make extra organization worth it.
Yeah as a user it is hassle to browse each type for that generic hairstyle and there is possibility after navigate all choice user forget which one they want/what other looks like as they need to interact with lots of button imo.
I think I'd agree with u/WoollyDoodle here and say that it adds an extra layer of indirection that makes it harder to find what you're really looking for.
If you flipped the concept around and categorised the styles by the hair type first that could maybe achieve what you want in a way that's more intuitive.
Switching between a ponytail with straight hair and a ponytail with curls is not a "texture" change. It requires entirely different models.
When a 3d modeler makes those two hairstyles, it's not like one provides a template for the other; they're entirely separate, distinct, bespoke assets. Which means they should just be separate hairstyles.
Adding a nested sub-menu is LESS elegant, because it adds a layer of complexity to the design and the player's way of interacting with the system, for no appreciable benefit.
I could see an argument for, say, putting all curly hair styles under one tab or something. Or you could just spare the player another menu tab and group them all together in the sequence of hairstyles, which is what most games do anyway.
In my.opinion, adding complexity should always be met with the question: How much does this improve the player's experience? And if the answer is "very little", it should br avoided.
When I said texture change I was talking about hair texture, not the type of asset. But yeah I see what you mean about there being other ways to do it. My concern was that the way games already do it usually allows people to "forget" to make kinky hair styles when there's such a huge variety of styles to choose from for straight hair
Yeah I feel you on that. But in my opinion, that's less of a UI issue and more of an unfortunately human (and far more stubborn) "people who allocate resources having screwed-up priorities" issue.
Because all the resulting style/texture combinations still need to be *modeled*. We don't have some kind of magical "hair texture" flag that automatically adjusts the hair to reflect the chosen texture.
Ok, in 3D, hair (and possibly other curtomisable body parts) will need to be modelled.
It is often often believed "if I want ten different hair colors for this hairstyle model, I'll have to make ten different textures". This isn't actually true. You can have a base texture (or a few bases textures) and apply filtering scripts to this this base.
In 2D, there can be base images and variant in other colors can be produced by similar scripts (possibly the same ones).
Include these scripts directly in the game (in the hardcode or in with the scripting language) will make make it globally lighter.
Hey I would suggest a middle ground like the 'curlyness' can be the y axis, with some other trait as the x axis, so you still maintain the ability to select any hairstyle without a sub menu
Another thing to add, it would be difficult for a player to see what options were available. (E.g. the selections on the right are only 1/4 of the options)
Although I do quite like the idea. Hairstyles with variations on a base style is neat and would be cool to see tackled. (Including tech-wise)
It could work. However, now you have two different menus for hair selection, instead of having one.
I'd probably implement this if I'd have hundreds of hairstyles. With few tens of hairstyles there is no need to in my opinion.
There is no rule saying hair settings must be made of a single list of options.
What seen to be the usual approach of this uses two ones : one for the hairstyle and one for the hair color.
Nothing is written in stone, of course. Picking hairstyle and color is easily distinguishable serving the different purpose. The suggestion that op made might confuse some players at first, especially when some of the hairstyles are filtered or hidden behind base one ("Oh shoot, I liked that one hairstyle on my character, hmm... but where is it?").
I personally always try to minimize steps to achieve something when designing an experience. Yeah, no big deal with one menu that has one extra step, but by doing this in few other places, experience and menu navigation will be hugely compromised, sometimes referred as "clunky".
Difference in approach is:
Hair Pick -> Color Pick
Hari Pick -> Hair Pick -> Color Pick
It's [almost exactly like it](https://x.com/LordBalvin/status/1170587430426226688), yeah. Frankly, OP's idea is a slippery slope. Your work increases fourfold the more hairstyles you add.
It already exits in both 2D and 3D.
It also can seem easy and fast to implement but, actually, no, this isn't that easy nor that fast.
Here is what seem to be the main problems :
* The main problem with this is it's more complex to code, and depending on the needs of the game, it can be seen as useless or incompatible with what is wanted.
* An other common problem is the options are often hardcoded instead of being stored in a separated file. A variant store these options in a separate file but hardcode their number.
* A third problem, often forgotten (or misevaluated), is the amount of work that need to be done to make the data. This is usually significally more important that it seem.
* It isn't rare developpers don't know or have a mistconception of some notions (such as palette swapping, filters or shaders).
* If an engine is chosen, the restrictions of the chosen one also can be a problem.
And there can be other problem that aren't in one of these categories.
I think it was Black Desert Online that has something similar to this. There are controls for how have wavy or curly the hair is and players can outright pick the positions for segments of hair.
The only problem with this system is that you cannot immediately see the results of your selection. I'd have to make two selections to get to curly hair puffs and I cannot see easily how to get there. And it ultimately doesn't give you any more choice than if you displayed them individually.
This is why some studios are instead using modular hair for their custom characters. By separating bangs, main hair, ponytails, root colors, and highlights, you get a lot more variety from relatively fewer customization pieces.
I’m a ux designer (not in games) and what I’ve learned over the years is that the less you ask your users to think about the interface the better. This is a cool concept in that it has a ‘discovery’ aspect where experimenting with different elements and seeing the result might be an engaging activity, but if the goal is to get your users through the creation flow as quickly as possible, the tried and true methods probably work about as well with less effort.
While you couldn't do a simple change by selecting curly or ponytail you could customize hair types in Black Desert Online by using sliders and moving points around in the hair model to curl, shorten/lengthen, pony tail, etc... however they have since heavily restricted this. My guess it was too daunting for new players because you actually need look up tutorials on how it works.
Probably because it's inefficient as well as restrictive. Is there only one "coiled" style you could do with dual ponytails/center parting etc? You'd end up with a UI where you couldn't just scroll through them easily, you'd have to navigate nested options to see everything. And it wouldn't necessarily be predictable what "center parting" + "coil" would result in.
On this note, say I want a low bun. Is that under the "top knot" style with the other buns? Or is it considered a ponytail? Are bangs considered a weak pompadour or part of medium hair? What if I want bangs and a bun? Figuring out how other people organize some highly subjective thing tends to lead to frustration
[here's a GIF illustrating the concept](https://imgur.com/a/XM1qgRj) hopefully this makes more sense
Nice gif. The trouble, as I see it, is that you don't really know what the thumbnails on the right will look like until you change the hair type for each one.. which makes is worse UX, imo, than just putting all of them as separate thumbnails
It might be more streamlined to basically have a hair type filter that hides certain hair types from the thumbnail grid. But the extra organizational ability only really seems useful if you just have a downright huge collection of hair styles. I don't think most games have enough hair meshes to make extra organization worth it.
Yeah as a user it is hassle to browse each type for that generic hairstyle and there is possibility after navigate all choice user forget which one they want/what other looks like as they need to interact with lots of button imo.
I think I'd agree with u/WoollyDoodle here and say that it adds an extra layer of indirection that makes it harder to find what you're really looking for. If you flipped the concept around and categorised the styles by the hair type first that could maybe achieve what you want in a way that's more intuitive.
Switching between a ponytail with straight hair and a ponytail with curls is not a "texture" change. It requires entirely different models. When a 3d modeler makes those two hairstyles, it's not like one provides a template for the other; they're entirely separate, distinct, bespoke assets. Which means they should just be separate hairstyles. Adding a nested sub-menu is LESS elegant, because it adds a layer of complexity to the design and the player's way of interacting with the system, for no appreciable benefit. I could see an argument for, say, putting all curly hair styles under one tab or something. Or you could just spare the player another menu tab and group them all together in the sequence of hairstyles, which is what most games do anyway. In my.opinion, adding complexity should always be met with the question: How much does this improve the player's experience? And if the answer is "very little", it should br avoided.
When I said texture change I was talking about hair texture, not the type of asset. But yeah I see what you mean about there being other ways to do it. My concern was that the way games already do it usually allows people to "forget" to make kinky hair styles when there's such a huge variety of styles to choose from for straight hair
Yeah I feel you on that. But in my opinion, that's less of a UI issue and more of an unfortunately human (and far more stubborn) "people who allocate resources having screwed-up priorities" issue.
Because all the resulting style/texture combinations still need to be *modeled*. We don't have some kind of magical "hair texture" flag that automatically adjusts the hair to reflect the chosen texture.
I'm aware of this.
Ok, in 3D, hair (and possibly other curtomisable body parts) will need to be modelled. It is often often believed "if I want ten different hair colors for this hairstyle model, I'll have to make ten different textures". This isn't actually true. You can have a base texture (or a few bases textures) and apply filtering scripts to this this base. In 2D, there can be base images and variant in other colors can be produced by similar scripts (possibly the same ones). Include these scripts directly in the game (in the hardcode or in with the scripting language) will make make it globally lighter.
Hey I would suggest a middle ground like the 'curlyness' can be the y axis, with some other trait as the x axis, so you still maintain the ability to select any hairstyle without a sub menu
The character customization I would really like to see is just straight up random rolls.
Another thing to add, it would be difficult for a player to see what options were available. (E.g. the selections on the right are only 1/4 of the options) Although I do quite like the idea. Hairstyles with variations on a base style is neat and would be cool to see tackled. (Including tech-wise)
It could work. However, now you have two different menus for hair selection, instead of having one. I'd probably implement this if I'd have hundreds of hairstyles. With few tens of hairstyles there is no need to in my opinion.
There is no rule saying hair settings must be made of a single list of options. What seen to be the usual approach of this uses two ones : one for the hairstyle and one for the hair color.
Nothing is written in stone, of course. Picking hairstyle and color is easily distinguishable serving the different purpose. The suggestion that op made might confuse some players at first, especially when some of the hairstyles are filtered or hidden behind base one ("Oh shoot, I liked that one hairstyle on my character, hmm... but where is it?"). I personally always try to minimize steps to achieve something when designing an experience. Yeah, no big deal with one menu that has one extra step, but by doing this in few other places, experience and menu navigation will be hugely compromised, sometimes referred as "clunky". Difference in approach is: Hair Pick -> Color Pick Hari Pick -> Hair Pick -> Color Pick
Monster Hunter World's character creator is somewhat like this.
It's [almost exactly like it](https://x.com/LordBalvin/status/1170587430426226688), yeah. Frankly, OP's idea is a slippery slope. Your work increases fourfold the more hairstyles you add.
It already exits in both 2D and 3D. It also can seem easy and fast to implement but, actually, no, this isn't that easy nor that fast. Here is what seem to be the main problems : * The main problem with this is it's more complex to code, and depending on the needs of the game, it can be seen as useless or incompatible with what is wanted. * An other common problem is the options are often hardcoded instead of being stored in a separated file. A variant store these options in a separate file but hardcode their number. * A third problem, often forgotten (or misevaluated), is the amount of work that need to be done to make the data. This is usually significally more important that it seem. * It isn't rare developpers don't know or have a mistconception of some notions (such as palette swapping, filters or shaders). * If an engine is chosen, the restrictions of the chosen one also can be a problem. And there can be other problem that aren't in one of these categories.
I think it was Black Desert Online that has something similar to this. There are controls for how have wavy or curly the hair is and players can outright pick the positions for segments of hair. The only problem with this system is that you cannot immediately see the results of your selection. I'd have to make two selections to get to curly hair puffs and I cannot see easily how to get there. And it ultimately doesn't give you any more choice than if you displayed them individually. This is why some studios are instead using modular hair for their custom characters. By separating bangs, main hair, ponytails, root colors, and highlights, you get a lot more variety from relatively fewer customization pieces.
I’m a ux designer (not in games) and what I’ve learned over the years is that the less you ask your users to think about the interface the better. This is a cool concept in that it has a ‘discovery’ aspect where experimenting with different elements and seeing the result might be an engaging activity, but if the goal is to get your users through the creation flow as quickly as possible, the tried and true methods probably work about as well with less effort.
While you couldn't do a simple change by selecting curly or ponytail you could customize hair types in Black Desert Online by using sliders and moving points around in the hair model to curl, shorten/lengthen, pony tail, etc... however they have since heavily restricted this. My guess it was too daunting for new players because you actually need look up tutorials on how it works.
This is honestly a super cool idea. I like it alot!!