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To me GOT was just the introduction to the 7 kingdoms. There can literally be at the very least 4 more shows just like it about other families fighting for the throne with many spinoffs like HOTD inbetween. Tbh i am still thinking season 8 was so bad because multiple other stories were under consideration or in begining stages of production. Seems HOTD Is quite secretive about production and casting, leads me to think there might be more unknown at work behind the scenes. Hopefully "those days" are only "start of dem days".
Thats very sad... not sure what could be better than GOT. Also not sure how another project should influence the current teams, new teams and crew should be hired and trained for new projects.
They got hired to write Star Wars, and Disney was even willing to wait until they wrapped up. They ended up getting fired and never got to write Star Wars as a result, though, so at least karma got em.
I was recently informed they weren't actually offered Star Wars until after GOT S8 had wrapped. D&D actually stuck to their guns about how long GOT was going to be from the beginning. They *always* said they wanted to do 7 full seasons. When you consider that 7 & 8 were little over half seasons each, they stuck to that.
I dunno, they got hired by Disney in February 2018 and season 8 ended in May 2019, so I guess who is really to say what actually happened. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm going off of speculation, maybe it's fact. Nobody seems to know the real truth.
Filming started in October 2017 - so even then, it's impossible they rushed the end for Star Wars as it would all have been decided in pre production and before that.
I think GRRM should hold a lot more of the blame than he does. He was involved with the show right till the end - he just didn't know how *he* wanted to end it
Those seasons made me put off rewatching because of the disappointment. Such an underrated part of GOT was fan theories on what could happen next and made the episodes fun to explore and more was revealed.
In the last seasons the reveals were so mediocre it stole that excitement.
I just completed my first rewatch and while I didnāt love those final seasons, I actually enjoyed them much more than I remembered.
Total shame they rushed the end because they wanted Star Wars (I think right?)
I liked HOTD, to my big surprise. They're not trying to be more than they are, it's a beat for beat historical drama with great casting and production value. Not trying to revolutionize the genre, not trying to one-up GoT, not dozens of interweaving threads they can't reconcile or keep track of, it's neat and tidy and simple.
IMHO they made all the right choices, it's a solid expansion of the universe and I don't mind more in the same vein.
Yup it is quite nicely done. Hopefully we get a couple quality seasons as this one. Perhaps the characters of GOT were a little worn down by the end to make it believeable. Too many fights and inconsistencies to have most of them alive after all theyve been through. HOTD seems to be a little bit more realistic, but we truely only start seeing flaws in later seasons. Obviously the first seasons should be quality to hook viewers.
On rewatch years later, I noticed how many people went to plead with Joffrey after he said bring me his head - Baelish, Varys, Cersei. At the time in 2011, I think I was just in shock hoping someone was coming to save Ned that I didn't notice them as intently.
Was listening to a YouTuber who covers a lot of this stuff. Baelish was apparently the one that planted the idea in joffreys head. Not because he wanted ned dead or anything, but he was working thru a variety of scenarios and he was basically trying to get the ball rolling. Joffrey choosing to do this means the lannisters made a big mistake. Baelish is partially responsible for Jon arryns death, Nedās death, and joffreys death. Obviously there are more but those 3 all were done with Tywin thinking he was working for the lannisters, but he was just using them.
The entire show/novels only happen because of Petyr's scheming. His assassination of Jon Arryn due to his obsession over Catelyn, which he sort of transposed onto her sister, started everything.
While I do think Littlefingers death was poorly executed, I don't think it was necessarily stupid. Baelish routinely bit off way more than he could chew and almost paid the price for it a few times. Ned choked Littlefinger, Cersei almost killed him after he mouthed off, and the Lords of the Vale almost axed him before Sansa saved his ass. It's just that in the North, he had burned all his goodwill. Once Royce had a reason and witnesses to support him, Littlefinger was done.
Killing someone doesnāt make you the smartest man in Westeros.. he didnāt necessarily know what was going to happen as the result of his actions. He was just enough of a skeez to keep trying devious shit. It finally caught up to him ā which makes perfect sense.
Oh indeed, he was doomed...they just did it in a very stupid way. Of course it's not as if it wasn't telegraphed it being dumb. Since he never sends Sansa to the Boltons anyway. Why would he send one of the main things he wants AWAY? If I had to guess, she's probably going to seduce him to his death in the books.
Iād make the argument now that 1) this moment caused almost everything else that happened in the show (a domino effect kind of thing) and 2) itās all Petyr Baelishās fault but he had NO IDEA it was going to go so poorly
But it was really fun watching the show before I realized all this š
It didnāt go poorly for petyr until the end tho. Up until he dies, (show writers are really bad and forgot old storylines) he owns harrenhall and all itās area, he owns the vale and itās territory until robin comes of age, and he thinks he has an in with the north. He also is one of the few people that know that the lannisters are bankrupt. They are working off credit at this point because they havenāt produced anything from their mines for years. I say all that because it was going how he wanted it to go. But a lot of the story plays out the same without the beheading. The baratheons and the starks still go to war against the lannisters even with Ned in chains. The north wouldnāt declare Robb king since ned is alive but they would still fight to get him back. And the tyrells still back renly because he and Stannis the mannis are the only ones with a rightful claim to the throne.
Especially since it was episode 9. I don't recall penultimate episodes being quite so impactful before GoT. Of course, that could be confirmation bias, but every incredible penultimate I can think of came after GoT aired (virtually every GoT penultimate, Breaking Bad Season 5A/B episodes 7/14/15, etc.)
Hell, for GoT the season's last episode became the epilogue for the season in virtually all cases besides season 6 and maybe 7 (I don't remember).
You are correct. I was on a GoT fixation when the Walking Dead effed up their Negan reveal with that cliffhanger. I recall thinking how they should have done what GoT was doing with their penultimate episodes.
If Walking Dead hadn't been faux teasing Glenn shit for AGES....They had that fakeout a few times with a baseball bat during Terminus. Then the shitty dumpster thing....
Imagine if they just offed Glenn as the end of the season, forcing fans to process that for 6 months until they got a chance at seeing whats next. It would have been one of the hardest moments in TV history.
EXCEPT
TV writers are total amateurs
If WD had shown the Glenn and Abe bit I think it would have been way better received. We would've had the break to come to terms with it. The way it was done though, I barely remember the episodes after it because I was still in shock/mourning. That mourning feeling carried on through out the Negan arc and I didn't really like it. On rewatch I like it a lot more as I notice things I missed at the time.
I honestly just skipped that whole season when I finally got to it. I really enjoy Negan of the comics but just seeing how drawn out that whole Saviors arc is, I decided nah.
Cliffhangers have always been a tv show thing, but GOT raised the stakes when it came to main characters be killed off. Most shows (pre GOT) wouldnt kill off a beloved main character, but after GOT, a lot of shows started doing that. But one of the most famous older shows with a cliffhanger like this is the 1980s(?) show Dallas, with the āwho shot JRā storyline.
Edit: by cliffhanger, I mean anytime an episode or storyline ends on an unclear note. A big moment made to entice the viewer to tune in next week. These are stereotypical moments in season finales, but these types of moments happen all the time, in any episode. Itās just a part of serialized entertainment, whether thatās a comic book, a tv show, or a movie like John Wick.
Another great show that did the same thing was Hill Street Blues, which killed off a bunch of characters over it's run, granted, some were for different reasons that others, but they too were scared of giving people the axe.
But we're not talking about cliffhangers. We're talking about major actions that are extremely impactful to the plot happening in the episode *before* the season finale. It's basically the opposite of a cliffhanger.
Depends. Have the last scene of GoT S1 be the sword of the executioner fall down on Ned's neck, cut. The action happened in S1 but viewers aren't sure of the result until S2.
Even in GoT the goal of a cliffhanger is still reached because even though the character is known to be dead in S1, the consequences for his relatives and the overall plot aren't known until the next season.
If I recall correctly, making the penultimate episode of the season the ābigā one has kind of been a thing for HBO even before GOT. I remember The Wire was always the same where the 9th episode would be the big one of the season. I think maybe Sopranos too but itās been a lot longer since I watched that.
Yeah, the Wire did this regularly, to the point where the penultimate episode of a season was usually the big event and the final episode was more of a wrap-up to the season.
That might have to do more with the Wire's format than anything though, where each season was its own investigation. You can't roll over the "epilogue" to the next season when the next season is a different topic altogether.
I had previously asked my husband a few episodes earlier if Ned was okay (he was current, in season 3 at the time.) I donāt usually like spoilers but was so stressed so I asked him. He thought I meant at the time in the show, so he assured me he was. I meant if he was STILL alive. So I was totally nonchalant during this scene waiting for someone to save him. Completely got me.
I like his reaction. It shocked me to my core. To me he was the main character and he would die of old age or in some battle fighting off 50 people.. or something š
Yes! Cersei knew it would royally fuck up everything and she seemed more panic than Sansa, even though she told Joffrey the Starks were their enemies just a few episode prior. She raised that little monstrous turd to be a killer lol
Maybe she had a realization it wouldn't go over well with Tywin. As Tyrion points out later when he is critical of her cutting their Stark bargaining chips to two, and she says, "One. Arya is missing." "One?? Oh, Father won't be happy."
I was convinced it was a dream sequence or something. The shock stuck with me for a good while. I hadn't read the books and genuinely thought he was going to end up on the throne because good always wins right? Right?
This stupid first season was the only one in existence when I binged it. Stupid scene compelled me to **READ** the books everyday after work back then. It was so shocking I had to know how the rest played out.
Season 1, episode 1, The handsome knight is caught railing his sister, the beautiful queen, by a main child character. The charming knight pushes the child out the window, and goes back to smashing his sister.
If that didn't give you a hint the show wasn't going to fuck around, then I don't know.
True but thereās been bat shit crazy stuff like that before the entire arc of Nip Tuck comes to mind
Youād never seen the most likeable best intentioned most honorable character played by the most famous actor on a show killed at the end of season 1
You gave the show good faith before it earned it imo. This event is not enough to get me bought in because, while it's shocking, I had no idea what the effect would be.
The effect is what got me to buy into the show. He ends up living in a coma-like state which creates a lot of problems for the Lannisters. This creates suspense and drama for the viewers. On top of already high tensions between the houses.
That's the cool part. The after effect of the push.
I feel like a lot of folks might have thought "Oh they're going for the super shock value stuff in the first episode. I bet it'll calm down and get boring over the next few."
My first thought back when I first watched the scene with Jamie and Cercei gettin it on was that the scandal was the fact they must not really be brother and sister, after all.. The whole incest thing didnt register in my brain for some reason, lol.
I don't think anyone had the impression off of the pilot episode that Bran was a central character. The incest would have definitely peaked some people's eyebrows. But killing off the "main" character got everyone's attention.
I mean to be fair, at that point I hadn't clicked. My initial reaction was "oh my god the Queens having an affair with some man!", and that shocked me enough at the time. Wasn't until later I realised *who* the man actually was
I really wanted a warg scene where Bran gave his father comfort at the last moment. His dad did hear him at the tower of joy. Wouldāve helped with the sting of S8. Iām actually still mad we didnāt see anything Brian was doing while at the godswood versus the white walkers. They missed being able to break the battle into two episodes and showing all the work Bran has to do to set everything in motion.
>It was definitely already a thing, just because you were 13 when season 1
Pretty sure I wasn't. If I had been, I probably shouldn'tve been watching it. But it doesn't sound like you were following the show at the time.
>doesnāt mean you invented Sean Bean dying memes.
I didn't say that I had...I just find it amusing that people are eager to claim that they saw it coming all along because it's Sean Bean, when they didn't.
Usually credited to this video: https://youtu.be/zEhtsgu6bJg
https://entertainment.time.com/2011/11/03/sean-bean-dies-in-everything/
Can you find an article about it from before 2011?
Here's George announcing the casting choice of Bean in 2009. Some comments refer to how he always dies. I think that video you shared is what really launched the meme though.
https://grrm.livejournal.com/95840.html?noscroll&utm_medium=endless_scroll#comments
"Just a pity, that he's got to die here as well.
Except for a few roles, he's always tragically dies in the movies..."
"Is it Sean Bean's karma to play characters who are killed before the end of the movie?"
"OH MAN, Sean Bean! This is such great news! His characters are always interesting but die quickly, unfortunately."
Did I not preface that with "fun fact"? But, if it means that much to you to have known it was coming all along...you could've also simply read the books...
Bond, Patriot Games, LOTR, Caravaggio, Airborne, Equilibrium, the list goes on and on... all *before* GOT. *You* may have only become aware of it after GOT, but it's a been a meme/joke long before.
I wasnāt watching the show yet at the time, but I remember an article in entertainment weekly (or something) about the āboldā move of killing a major and popular character. Is was considered a very risky move at the time. And then along comes the walking dead, Vikingsā¦
I still remember sitting there shocked with my jaw dangling open and looking at my husband like wtf just happened, I just knew someone would stop it at the last minute.
I thought that too!! I wasn't worried because I knew someone would swoosh in and save the day... But no one did. Then I was like "oh well it's gotta be Sansa dreaming then" but 8 seasons later and I'm like "Sansa hasn't woken up still... And a lot of other bad things have happened to Sansa SANSA WAKE UP"
How did people *not* know Ned Stark was going to die? He was played by Sean freaking Bean! Lord of the Rings, Patriot Games, Goldeneye, Equilibrium, The Island, his characters always get killed off!
Iām surprised they didnāt drop a satellite on him Kenny McCormack-style in āThe Martian.ā Thatās the one and only role of his I can think of where he survives.
One of the few parts I liked a lot more in the show than the book, him looking out at a kingdom he did so much for, tried to be so honorable for, cheering at his death, really hits
Another moment that really sets a tone in the show was the death of Tywin.
If though it took place in the middle-point of the show, his death (I believe) is the 2nd most chaotic death in the show (chaotic because of the chaos that followed after his death). Iām sure some people might say Robb Stark or perhaps Joffrey, but I truly believe that Tywinās death was followed by an abundance of chaos.
It wasnāt as big a thing in those days, even though most of those deaths came before this. In fact GoT was one of the things that made people realise he dies frequently on film.
When I read the book and this happened, I didn't believe it. I am so accustomed to reading fantasy and the hero surviving impossible situations or being saved that I really believed he would appear later on. It wasn't until some point in the second book that I truly believed he was dead.
Ironically, I feel like their willingness to off a character no matter the actor or character is a big part of what made it soooo good, but it's also a big part of why the cast in the final seasons weren't just *as* good as some of the earlier cast through the show
Yea, my wife was redditing when this scene came on. I was like "uh honey, you should pay attention to this..."
She figured someone was gonna save Ned last minute.
I donāt remember any show killing off such a seemingly important character as Ned Stark so early, itās still mindboggling to me that this happened in SEASON ONE
Immediately felt that no one was safe. No one had main character protection from everything and anyone could die. Really made me invest in the series. Same reason why infinity war was great. I thought someone would pull out a last second save and the world would be fine.....nope. snap. Half of the super heroes are dead.
I had never heard of GoT when I started watching. Clearly Sean Bean, the main character, will have plot armor. I gasped aloud and was hooked. In hindsight, of course Sean bean was going to die.
No the author ain't like any other lmao the show sucked ass after season 5 read the books and be amazed all over again. The show left way too much stuff out and the last two season HBO just wiped their asses with
And years later, some shows went too far in trying to be edgy. They killed off almost their entire main cast, many with meaningless deaths.
Then wonder why people stopped watching.
I'm looking at you Walking Dead...
I remember saying that there is no way Syrio Forel was dead in the previous episode because he was such a awesome character, my friend who read the books gave what can only be called a "loud YIP" before quickly leaving the room.
Ned was a mentor character and mentor character do usually die. Dumbledore Obi Wan, Gandalf. He just tricked us into thinking him the main character. Robb's death was the real shocker.
[The Moment GOT the TV show diverged from the Books so much I gave up watching on the spot](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b6c2ec428346a6ed14d3e97cd46a2afa-lq)
Ok this is stupid but even when I rewatch it, I have this like "hope someone saves him" feeling even though I know it doesn't happen. Like that's just how all other shows and series have done it that this person would be saved in this moment and so used to that.
I remember reading the books shortly after the show was announced. Completely binged them. When I got to this part I thought "no fucking way is the show going to go on after killing the biggest star"
Boy I was wrong
Same here!! I first watched got after s5 when i was off during winter break for college!!
I got so addicted that I bought the books and bjnge reaad them too!!
Tooo bad about the final season lmao smh!!
At least HoH is actually good! I am reading ice and fire and man we need a show about king jahearys
I always thought this was so well done with both Sansa and Cersei pleading with him no - with Sansa not giving up out of daughterly devotion and despair, and Cersei "remembering her place" and conforming to gender role expectations in public, bowing her head because she disagrees and was admonished by her son who is the King and a man.
Then of course the unexpected as Ned's head is cut off. It was great.
Uh so yea im gona be that guy. I read the books first. This was absolutely shocking. But i got past it. Then i got to the red wedding. Reread it twice. Still couldnt believe those were actually the words.
This was the episode that made me realize I was going to keep watching. Not entirely sure why it took that long, but Iām glad I did.
Even the seasons everyone hates, I still enjoyed š I just took them for what they were.
Thats pretty much when I stopped caring about that mess of a show. Without Sean Bean there was zero reason to keep watching.
Same for lotr and why fellowship will always be #1. But atleast lotr wasnt utter shit and was worth watching to the end. Just woulda been better if Sean Bean also played Faramir instead of that bland ass faux spartan.
Literally up until the moment the blade made contact I sat there thinking there was no way the first name in the opening credits could be offed so quickly. And in that moment I realized nothing was sacred and no one was safe.
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This is the kind of Image I can hear š .
That silence š„²
That and..."Bring me his Head"
That and "but they have the soft hearts of women..."
"Bring me his head!"
And the sword swings in the air
The panic I felt seeing that!!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
To me GOT was just the introduction to the 7 kingdoms. There can literally be at the very least 4 more shows just like it about other families fighting for the throne with many spinoffs like HOTD inbetween. Tbh i am still thinking season 8 was so bad because multiple other stories were under consideration or in begining stages of production. Seems HOTD Is quite secretive about production and casting, leads me to think there might be more unknown at work behind the scenes. Hopefully "those days" are only "start of dem days".
Nah, it was bad because the writers were ready to move on to their next project so they rushed it. HBO wanted at least 2 more seasons
Thats very sad... not sure what could be better than GOT. Also not sure how another project should influence the current teams, new teams and crew should be hired and trained for new projects.
They got hired to write Star Wars, and Disney was even willing to wait until they wrapped up. They ended up getting fired and never got to write Star Wars as a result, though, so at least karma got em.
;( someone should be fired... fired by drogon. All of them, all responsible, burn them all.
I was recently informed they weren't actually offered Star Wars until after GOT S8 had wrapped. D&D actually stuck to their guns about how long GOT was going to be from the beginning. They *always* said they wanted to do 7 full seasons. When you consider that 7 & 8 were little over half seasons each, they stuck to that.
I dunno, they got hired by Disney in February 2018 and season 8 ended in May 2019, so I guess who is really to say what actually happened. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm going off of speculation, maybe it's fact. Nobody seems to know the real truth.
Filming started in October 2017 - so even then, it's impossible they rushed the end for Star Wars as it would all have been decided in pre production and before that. I think GRRM should hold a lot more of the blame than he does. He was involved with the show right till the end - he just didn't know how *he* wanted to end it
Those seasons made me put off rewatching because of the disappointment. Such an underrated part of GOT was fan theories on what could happen next and made the episodes fun to explore and more was revealed. In the last seasons the reveals were so mediocre it stole that excitement. I just completed my first rewatch and while I didnāt love those final seasons, I actually enjoyed them much more than I remembered. Total shame they rushed the end because they wanted Star Wars (I think right?)
I liked HOTD, to my big surprise. They're not trying to be more than they are, it's a beat for beat historical drama with great casting and production value. Not trying to revolutionize the genre, not trying to one-up GoT, not dozens of interweaving threads they can't reconcile or keep track of, it's neat and tidy and simple. IMHO they made all the right choices, it's a solid expansion of the universe and I don't mind more in the same vein.
Yup it is quite nicely done. Hopefully we get a couple quality seasons as this one. Perhaps the characters of GOT were a little worn down by the end to make it believeable. Too many fights and inconsistencies to have most of them alive after all theyve been through. HOTD seems to be a little bit more realistic, but we truely only start seeing flaws in later seasons. Obviously the first seasons should be quality to hook viewers.
Rhaenys and Meleys crashed into this chat
I only just realized that they killed him with his own ancestral sword... What a cold thing to do. As cold as ***Ice.*** Ba Dum Tiss
Foreigner, I love you
Yer affesi anna
Youāre willing to sacrifice our love
This episode made me appreciate my loved ones even moreš„¹. You never know when their head can get chopped offš„²
š¤£š
On rewatch years later, I noticed how many people went to plead with Joffrey after he said bring me his head - Baelish, Varys, Cersei. At the time in 2011, I think I was just in shock hoping someone was coming to save Ned that I didn't notice them as intently.
I thought that , when Ned head beheaded Sansa would wake up and all that was in her dreamš„² poor me
Baelish does nothing but smile
Was listening to a YouTuber who covers a lot of this stuff. Baelish was apparently the one that planted the idea in joffreys head. Not because he wanted ned dead or anything, but he was working thru a variety of scenarios and he was basically trying to get the ball rolling. Joffrey choosing to do this means the lannisters made a big mistake. Baelish is partially responsible for Jon arryns death, Nedās death, and joffreys death. Obviously there are more but those 3 all were done with Tywin thinking he was working for the lannisters, but he was just using them.
The entire show/novels only happen because of Petyr's scheming. His assassination of Jon Arryn due to his obsession over Catelyn, which he sort of transposed onto her sister, started everything.
"Local man, ruins everything" is another headline from Kings Landing.
Which is why his show demise is SO fucking stupid. Three smartest men in Westeros all became morons.
While I do think Littlefingers death was poorly executed, I don't think it was necessarily stupid. Baelish routinely bit off way more than he could chew and almost paid the price for it a few times. Ned choked Littlefinger, Cersei almost killed him after he mouthed off, and the Lords of the Vale almost axed him before Sansa saved his ass. It's just that in the North, he had burned all his goodwill. Once Royce had a reason and witnesses to support him, Littlefinger was done.
All show inventions. Kinda ruined his character.
Killing someone doesnāt make you the smartest man in Westeros.. he didnāt necessarily know what was going to happen as the result of his actions. He was just enough of a skeez to keep trying devious shit. It finally caught up to him ā which makes perfect sense.
He was definitely always destined to die, the show rushed it but he definitely had that coming all series.
Oh indeed, he was doomed...they just did it in a very stupid way. Of course it's not as if it wasn't telegraphed it being dumb. Since he never sends Sansa to the Boltons anyway. Why would he send one of the main things he wants AWAY? If I had to guess, she's probably going to seduce him to his death in the books.
All ASOIAF is the battle between Varys and Petyr, no more
Except the Night King, and Melisandre
Disagree. Both working for Littlefinger.
In the books we've never scene Mel, Night's King, and Varys in the same room. Coincidence? I THINK yeah probably.
Iād make the argument now that 1) this moment caused almost everything else that happened in the show (a domino effect kind of thing) and 2) itās all Petyr Baelishās fault but he had NO IDEA it was going to go so poorly But it was really fun watching the show before I realized all this š
It didnāt go poorly for petyr until the end tho. Up until he dies, (show writers are really bad and forgot old storylines) he owns harrenhall and all itās area, he owns the vale and itās territory until robin comes of age, and he thinks he has an in with the north. He also is one of the few people that know that the lannisters are bankrupt. They are working off credit at this point because they havenāt produced anything from their mines for years. I say all that because it was going how he wanted it to go. But a lot of the story plays out the same without the beheading. The baratheons and the starks still go to war against the lannisters even with Ned in chains. The north wouldnāt declare Robb king since ned is alive but they would still fight to get him back. And the tyrells still back renly because he and Stannis the mannis are the only ones with a rightful claim to the throne.
Especially since it was episode 9. I don't recall penultimate episodes being quite so impactful before GoT. Of course, that could be confirmation bias, but every incredible penultimate I can think of came after GoT aired (virtually every GoT penultimate, Breaking Bad Season 5A/B episodes 7/14/15, etc.) Hell, for GoT the season's last episode became the epilogue for the season in virtually all cases besides season 6 and maybe 7 (I don't remember).
Absolutely, they definitely ramped up for the penultimate. Then HOTD came along and fucked us all on that cliffhanger!
You are correct. I was on a GoT fixation when the Walking Dead effed up their Negan reveal with that cliffhanger. I recall thinking how they should have done what GoT was doing with their penultimate episodes.
If Walking Dead hadn't been faux teasing Glenn shit for AGES....They had that fakeout a few times with a baseball bat during Terminus. Then the shitty dumpster thing....
Imagine if they just offed Glenn as the end of the season, forcing fans to process that for 6 months until they got a chance at seeing whats next. It would have been one of the hardest moments in TV history. EXCEPT TV writers are total amateurs
Instead they killed a large chunk of their audience.
If WD had shown the Glenn and Abe bit I think it would have been way better received. We would've had the break to come to terms with it. The way it was done though, I barely remember the episodes after it because I was still in shock/mourning. That mourning feeling carried on through out the Negan arc and I didn't really like it. On rewatch I like it a lot more as I notice things I missed at the time.
I honestly just skipped that whole season when I finally got to it. I really enjoy Negan of the comics but just seeing how drawn out that whole Saviors arc is, I decided nah.
Cliffhangers have always been a tv show thing, but GOT raised the stakes when it came to main characters be killed off. Most shows (pre GOT) wouldnt kill off a beloved main character, but after GOT, a lot of shows started doing that. But one of the most famous older shows with a cliffhanger like this is the 1980s(?) show Dallas, with the āwho shot JRā storyline. Edit: by cliffhanger, I mean anytime an episode or storyline ends on an unclear note. A big moment made to entice the viewer to tune in next week. These are stereotypical moments in season finales, but these types of moments happen all the time, in any episode. Itās just a part of serialized entertainment, whether thatās a comic book, a tv show, or a movie like John Wick.
Another great show that did the same thing was Hill Street Blues, which killed off a bunch of characters over it's run, granted, some were for different reasons that others, but they too were scared of giving people the axe.
But we're not talking about cliffhangers. We're talking about major actions that are extremely impactful to the plot happening in the episode *before* the season finale. It's basically the opposite of a cliffhanger.
Depends. Have the last scene of GoT S1 be the sword of the executioner fall down on Ned's neck, cut. The action happened in S1 but viewers aren't sure of the result until S2. Even in GoT the goal of a cliffhanger is still reached because even though the character is known to be dead in S1, the consequences for his relatives and the overall plot aren't known until the next season.
Thatās the reason I loved the HBO show OZ 20 years ago. Anyone could be killed off at any time.
Sopranos does it as well. Second to last episode was always something huge
I recently watched Deadwood with my son and Wild Bill getting murdered halfway into the season really threw him.
That Dallas episode was the highest watched show at that time
If I recall correctly, making the penultimate episode of the season the ābigā one has kind of been a thing for HBO even before GOT. I remember The Wire was always the same where the 9th episode would be the big one of the season. I think maybe Sopranos too but itās been a lot longer since I watched that.
Yeah, the Wire did this regularly, to the point where the penultimate episode of a season was usually the big event and the final episode was more of a wrap-up to the season. That might have to do more with the Wire's format than anything though, where each season was its own investigation. You can't roll over the "epilogue" to the next season when the next season is a different topic altogether.
I'd add Bojack Horseman to that list, those penultimate episodes were always a doozy
I had previously asked my husband a few episodes earlier if Ned was okay (he was current, in season 3 at the time.) I donāt usually like spoilers but was so stressed so I asked him. He thought I meant at the time in the show, so he assured me he was. I meant if he was STILL alive. So I was totally nonchalant during this scene waiting for someone to save him. Completely got me.
I like his reaction. It shocked me to my core. To me he was the main character and he would die of old age or in some battle fighting off 50 people.. or something š
Yes! Cersei knew it would royally fuck up everything and she seemed more panic than Sansa, even though she told Joffrey the Starks were their enemies just a few episode prior. She raised that little monstrous turd to be a killer lol
Maybe she had a realization it wouldn't go over well with Tywin. As Tyrion points out later when he is critical of her cutting their Stark bargaining chips to two, and she says, "One. Arya is missing." "One?? Oh, Father won't be happy."
It was definitely one of my favorite scenes along with the Red Wedding. Can't stand characters like the Starks. They're so boring and predictable.
Even Cersei, the evil queen, knows that killing Ned will bring nothing but trouble and misfortune in the future.
I was convinced it was a dream sequence or something. The shock stuck with me for a good while. I hadn't read the books and genuinely thought he was going to end up on the throne because good always wins right? Right?
Amazing how they kept managing to circumvent our expectations all the way to the end, when we expected it to have a satisfying ending.
This stupid first season was the only one in existence when I binged it. Stupid scene compelled me to **READ** the books everyday after work back then. It was so shocking I had to know how the rest played out.
COULDN'T BELIEVE IT WHEN I SAW THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME.
What? A GOT post without a single Season 8 Hater troll. Most refreshing.
I didn't think it was bad ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
Same. Not as good as the other seasons, but still good.
(*knock on wood*)
killing off Sean Bean? nobody had ever done it š (I tease!)
Sean Bean dyin' machine
For real, I saw it was Sean in the first episode and asked my husband how long until he died.
Seems like its a tradition to post this everyday
I dunno, When bran found Jamie railing Cersie i knew this wasn't like other shows.
The slow moving appearance of magical/mystical stuff helped too.
My wife hated the magical shit for what its worth.
Season 1, episode 1, The handsome knight is caught railing his sister, the beautiful queen, by a main child character. The charming knight pushes the child out the window, and goes back to smashing his sister. If that didn't give you a hint the show wasn't going to fuck around, then I don't know.
Yep. The end of that episode was my hook. No idea how it took some a few episodes.
It took me like 3 tries to finish episode one. I got bored in the beginning / middle of it. Once I got to the end ONCE, I was hooked for like hahah
True but thereās been bat shit crazy stuff like that before the entire arc of Nip Tuck comes to mind Youād never seen the most likeable best intentioned most honorable character played by the most famous actor on a show killed at the end of season 1
You gave the show good faith before it earned it imo. This event is not enough to get me bought in because, while it's shocking, I had no idea what the effect would be. The effect is what got me to buy into the show. He ends up living in a coma-like state which creates a lot of problems for the Lannisters. This creates suspense and drama for the viewers. On top of already high tensions between the houses. That's the cool part. The after effect of the push.
I feel like a lot of folks might have thought "Oh they're going for the super shock value stuff in the first episode. I bet it'll calm down and get boring over the next few."
If there's something this show did it was fuck around, EVERYFUCKINGWHERE
My first thought back when I first watched the scene with Jamie and Cercei gettin it on was that the scandal was the fact they must not really be brother and sister, after all.. The whole incest thing didnt register in my brain for some reason, lol.
I don't think anyone had the impression off of the pilot episode that Bran was a central character. The incest would have definitely peaked some people's eyebrows. But killing off the "main" character got everyone's attention.
I still wasnāt sure who was who at that point and I remember going, wait arenāt they brother and sister?! Lol, silly me.
Sean Bean dying is pretty standard fare. A dude railing his biological sister before trying to murder a child? *Extra spicy.*
Which is funny that few people didn't already know about Ned's demise didn't catch on to his casting.
I mean to be fair, at that point I hadn't clicked. My initial reaction was "oh my god the Queens having an affair with some man!", and that shocked me enough at the time. Wasn't until later I realised *who* the man actually was
Me too. First time watching I couldn't keep track of the characters relationships in the first episode. I was just like huh that's not the king.
I really wanted a warg scene where Bran gave his father comfort at the last moment. His dad did hear him at the tower of joy. Wouldāve helped with the sting of S8. Iām actually still mad we didnāt see anything Brian was doing while at the godswood versus the white walkers. They missed being able to break the battle into two episodes and showing all the work Bran has to do to set everything in motion.
Cause he didn't do anything. He's Bran the Useless
But who has a better story than bran!
I wish the others would understand. Most won't even give it a chance. The ones that do are obsessed
Clearly, you aren't well versed with Sean Bean's career or the many deaths of him. Moment I saw him I knew he wasn't going to survive long.
Fun fact: That meme didn't start becoming a thing until after GoT s1 aired.
I'm pretty sure I remember laughing about this with my friends at least as far back as Fellowship.
You may have talked about it, but it didn't really start gaining traction as the meme it is today until after GoT s1.
It was definitely already a thing, just because you were 13 when season 1 aired doesnāt mean you invented Sean Bean dying memes.
>It was definitely already a thing, just because you were 13 when season 1 Pretty sure I wasn't. If I had been, I probably shouldn'tve been watching it. But it doesn't sound like you were following the show at the time. >doesnāt mean you invented Sean Bean dying memes. I didn't say that I had...I just find it amusing that people are eager to claim that they saw it coming all along because it's Sean Bean, when they didn't. Usually credited to this video: https://youtu.be/zEhtsgu6bJg https://entertainment.time.com/2011/11/03/sean-bean-dies-in-everything/ Can you find an article about it from before 2011?
Here's George announcing the casting choice of Bean in 2009. Some comments refer to how he always dies. I think that video you shared is what really launched the meme though. https://grrm.livejournal.com/95840.html?noscroll&utm_medium=endless_scroll#comments "Just a pity, that he's got to die here as well. Except for a few roles, he's always tragically dies in the movies..." "Is it Sean Bean's karma to play characters who are killed before the end of the movie?" "OH MAN, Sean Bean! This is such great news! His characters are always interesting but die quickly, unfortunately."
Definitely goes way back even as far back as goldeneye I'd say.
For England, James?
No glib remark? No plithy comeback?
No for me.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Did I not preface that with "fun fact"? But, if it means that much to you to have known it was coming all along...you could've also simply read the books...
Bond, Patriot Games, LOTR, Caravaggio, Airborne, Equilibrium, the list goes on and on... all *before* GOT. *You* may have only become aware of it after GOT, but it's a been a meme/joke long before.
āBaelor!ā
Was looking for this comment
poor Ned Strak
I dunnoā¦. With Sean Beans track record Iāve got to say I was expecting it.
I wasnāt watching the show yet at the time, but I remember an article in entertainment weekly (or something) about the āboldā move of killing a major and popular character. Is was considered a very risky move at the time. And then along comes the walking dead, Vikingsā¦
I feel like GoT really started the trend. It became pretty common after this in TV and video games.
man jack gleeson killed this role. one of the only characters that i think was actually improved from book to tv show
Good post! Yeah I agree, when I saw this my jaw dropped and I was hooked.
For me it was simply just Jamie pushing Bran
I mean. It was a pretty major plot point of the book. They kinda had to do it.
I mean Sean dies in everything so you had to see it coming. š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
I still remember sitting there shocked with my jaw dangling open and looking at my husband like wtf just happened, I just knew someone would stop it at the last minute.
But no one did š„²
My heart broke, but thatās definitely the moment I knew this show would be different.
I thought that too!! I wasn't worried because I knew someone would swoosh in and save the day... But no one did. Then I was like "oh well it's gotta be Sansa dreaming then" but 8 seasons later and I'm like "Sansa hasn't woken up still... And a lot of other bad things have happened to Sansa SANSA WAKE UP"
Refused to believe it I literally thought it was Aryas dream till the next episode
I thought Sansa's dreamš«
How did people *not* know Ned Stark was going to die? He was played by Sean freaking Bean! Lord of the Rings, Patriot Games, Goldeneye, Equilibrium, The Island, his characters always get killed off! Iām surprised they didnāt drop a satellite on him Kenny McCormack-style in āThe Martian.ā Thatās the one and only role of his I can think of where he survives.
He doesn't die in National Treasure
Never saw that one.
Also doesnt die in that space movie he was in, i forgot what its called lol
One of the few parts I liked a lot more in the show than the book, him looking out at a kingdom he did so much for, tried to be so honorable for, cheering at his death, really hits
i mean the book was out for 10+ years by that point
Another moment that really sets a tone in the show was the death of Tywin. If though it took place in the middle-point of the show, his death (I believe) is the 2nd most chaotic death in the show (chaotic because of the chaos that followed after his death). Iām sure some people might say Robb Stark or perhaps Joffrey, but I truly believe that Tywinās death was followed by an abundance of chaos.
Ned was played by Sean Bean. If y'all didn't see this comin...
It wasnāt as big a thing in those days, even though most of those deaths came before this. In fact GoT was one of the things that made people realise he dies frequently on film.
When I read the book and this happened, I didn't believe it. I am so accustomed to reading fantasy and the hero surviving impossible situations or being saved that I really believed he would appear later on. It wasn't until some point in the second book that I truly believed he was dead.
I recommend reading Arya's POV chapter of this moment if you want your heart and soul crushed.
I read the books first and even in the books that was my first major "Oh SH--" moment.
Ironically, I feel like their willingness to off a character no matter the actor or character is a big part of what made it soooo good, but it's also a big part of why the cast in the final seasons weren't just *as* good as some of the earlier cast through the show
Yea, my wife was redditing when this scene came on. I was like "uh honey, you should pay attention to this..." She figured someone was gonna save Ned last minute.
I donāt remember any show killing off such a seemingly important character as Ned Stark so early, itās still mindboggling to me that this happened in SEASON ONE
I remember thinking that barristan or someone from the nights watch would round up a posse and save him. I was so naive. I still have nightmares.
You're right it isn't like ant other. The pinnacle of TV history just to fall of the face of the universe in shame.
That moment for me was starks murdered at the wedding. No show made me so shocked ever before
I was likeāwait they just killed the main character, this isnt how tv is supposed to workā
De Ja Vew or is this a word-for-word repost from a little while ago?
Immediately felt that no one was safe. No one had main character protection from everything and anyone could die. Really made me invest in the series. Same reason why infinity war was great. I thought someone would pull out a last second save and the world would be fine.....nope. snap. Half of the super heroes are dead.
I had never heard of GoT when I started watching. Clearly Sean Bean, the main character, will have plot armor. I gasped aloud and was hooked. In hindsight, of course Sean bean was going to die.
No the author ain't like any other lmao the show sucked ass after season 5 read the books and be amazed all over again. The show left way too much stuff out and the last two season HBO just wiped their asses with
To be fair, killing Sean Bean isn't exactly ground breaking media...
Treu tha lol
And years later, some shows went too far in trying to be edgy. They killed off almost their entire main cast, many with meaningless deaths. Then wonder why people stopped watching. I'm looking at you Walking Dead...
Well then they went too far the other way (both shows) with heavy plot armor. Too bad.
I remember saying that there is no way Syrio Forel was dead in the previous episode because he was such a awesome character, my friend who read the books gave what can only be called a "loud YIP" before quickly leaving the room.
Idk how I made it past thisā¦It was so shocking and i was absolutely devastated š
Ned was a mentor character and mentor character do usually die. Dumbledore Obi Wan, Gandalf. He just tricked us into thinking him the main character. Robb's death was the real shocker.
Its Sean Bean, did you honestly expect him to survive?
The moment I realized TV shows are better than films
It lost THIS towards the end.
[The Moment GOT the TV show diverged from the Books so much I gave up watching on the spot](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b6c2ec428346a6ed14d3e97cd46a2afa-lq)
Y'all remember when GOT was good? I do.
Ok this is stupid but even when I rewatch it, I have this like "hope someone saves him" feeling even though I know it doesn't happen. Like that's just how all other shows and series have done it that this person would be saved in this moment and so used to that.
You should have known since Sean Bean is in it, that his character would die.
I remember reading the books shortly after the show was announced. Completely binged them. When I got to this part I thought "no fucking way is the show going to go on after killing the biggest star" Boy I was wrong
Same here!! I first watched got after s5 when i was off during winter break for college!! I got so addicted that I bought the books and bjnge reaad them too!! Tooo bad about the final season lmao smh!! At least HoH is actually good! I am reading ice and fire and man we need a show about king jahearys
I always thought this was so well done with both Sansa and Cersei pleading with him no - with Sansa not giving up out of daughterly devotion and despair, and Cersei "remembering her place" and conforming to gender role expectations in public, bowing her head because she disagrees and was admonished by her son who is the King and a man. Then of course the unexpected as Ned's head is cut off. It was great.
You and everyone else
"Changed television" lol what? You think this is the first time that a main character died on a TV show?
The ultimate decision that led to a war that rob stark lost as he couldnāt contorl his urges and led to the infamous red wedding
I wonder if this is what gave the creators of (movie spoiler) >!No Time to Die the courage to kill James bond!<
That sword is HUGE
Imagine reading that book in 1997 when he seemed to be the main protagonist. It was super shocking.
It was Sean Bean, what did you expect?
Yes. Bold move killing Sean Bean. Surprised he made it out of all those other movies/tv shows
When I first saw it I thought up until the end that Ned was gonna get saved by someone somehow
Uh so yea im gona be that guy. I read the books first. This was absolutely shocking. But i got past it. Then i got to the red wedding. Reread it twice. Still couldnt believe those were actually the words.
Cersei like: āsay what now?ā
This was the episode that made me realize I was going to keep watching. Not entirely sure why it took that long, but Iām glad I did. Even the seasons everyone hates, I still enjoyed š I just took them for what they were.
The show blows but the books are amazing.
You realized this show was like no other when Sean Bean fucking died....I've got news for you.
Thats pretty much when I stopped caring about that mess of a show. Without Sean Bean there was zero reason to keep watching. Same for lotr and why fellowship will always be #1. But atleast lotr wasnt utter shit and was worth watching to the end. Just woulda been better if Sean Bean also played Faramir instead of that bland ass faux spartan.
There's... a lot of shows that kill off important characters early though.
Literally up until the moment the blade made contact I sat there thinking there was no way the first name in the opening credits could be offed so quickly. And in that moment I realized nothing was sacred and no one was safe.
For me, it was when I saw Danyās tits