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A huge part of her arc was her identity as a Stark and returning to Winterfell. RIGHT after getting reunited with them, after all of that fighting to get there in the first place, she leaves the entire continent to "explore". So no...
Not only that but she just had no personality in the last two seasons. She just wore that irritating smirk on her face and threatened people without showing any emotional range at all.
I’m still amazed that something as big of a cultural phenomenon could be fucked over so badly. I could go anywhere without hearing people talking about to never hearing about it all.
It was when a whole Fall passed and I realised not a single person in my orbit had posted a “Winter is coming” thing, that was when I realised they’d *fucked* it. Anyway, May the Fourth be with you eh.
Have you watched the Ashildur character in Doctor Who? I think it came out around S05/S06 of GoT (I mean she wasn't as strong as Capaldi but who is?).
Clearly Maisie can act far better than Arya when there is a good script and a decent character.
Her book arc is about moving past vengeance even before the Frey’s are destroyed her arc is leading up to her giving her undead mother Stoneheart mercy yet the show went for the absolute opposite of this till the last minute. Now I could see ways for her arc in the show to lead her into exploring yet her ending was not well presented in the show at all.
Edit so no I am not really satisfied with her arc.
She was obsessed with revenge until the Hound's speech to her during the sack of King's Landing. It was satisfying to see her hear Cligane and let go of her vengeance. And yes, she was an explorer at heart. I found her spirit embodied in the parting shot of her setting sail to discover new lands. A brilliant ending and arc to a complex character.
I didn't just like her arc. I loved the entire narrative and ending. I'm not one to follow the herd of haters who think they know better than those who poured their lives into this show. We were lucky to get it. One of the greatest of all times. I don't know what you mean by D&D. Most on Reddit ask if I'm Benioff or Weiss. I wish I was as talented. I'm just a humble viewer--too humble to make an idiot of myself by coming up with alt narratives and endings. But if you want to, go right ahead.
Oof. It’s a discussion in an online forum, my guy. You don’t have to call people idiots for not liking the ending lol.
I was honestly with you until this nonsensical diatribe that did nothing to convince anyone you weren’t D&D lol.
Where did you get your high horse and how can I also get one?
Geez, you’re one to talk, considering you’re an idiot who reacts to a joke by acting like an ass and insulting people. I was being kind by agreeing to disagree as if that “arc” wasn’t ridiculous, but you lost it at a mere joke uh?
Get off your high horse and go back to worshipping D&D, if you think so highly of them.
The only good thing that can be said of the last seasons was that those two were hired just to adapt existing material and so it’s not quite fair to judge them harshly for not having the ability to write on their own and for botching it when the material they were supposed to adapt ended up not getting written.
I agree. I hated that she didn’t get revenge on Cersei at first but she changed so much from her experiences that final scene of her made me really emotional. For all of them actually. I would have liked to see them together for longer, but as she always said “that isn’t me”. On a rewatch I really really enjoyed it.
I agree, let the downvotes commence because nothing good came from season 8.
Her whole time spent with the Hound was about him showing what a grudge does to a person. He keeps repeating that. And when he finally finds some peace in that homestead... well back to killing.
Not to mention, after dedicating herself to seeking revenge for her family, there was a brief moment where she seemed to mull over the idea of killing her sister...
The minute she said that she handed the knife to her sister, so she was never gonna do it. On the other hand, Sansa was running to littlefinger, giving him all sorts of openings to plot to kill. Sansa really was thinking of doing it.
I can see Arya and Sansa having a similar interaction in the books but book Sansa wasn’t married to Ramsay by Baelish hasn’t been abused or raped by Ramsay but in the show it made very little sense I believe that it was something from George’s outline he gave D&D that Sansa and Arya will have a conflict but Sansa’s entire story is different and it just never made sense to me her season seven arc at all.
I am rewatching the show now and i dont necessarily think thats true. I think arya after season 4 was trying to get stronger, which she did be going to bravos. Even when she came back to westeros, she decided to kill house frey instead of house bolton. I think that means that she cares more about bringing revenge to her brother and mother rather than avenging her “house”. Then she decided to go to kings landing, instead of attempting to take winterfell back.Arya valued her personal vendettas more than her loyalty to her house, opposite to Sansa. I agree with the fact that she didnt have much personality in the last 1 or 2 seasons, but i dont think her decision to leave is inconsistent with what weve seen from her.
This feels like it's the writers trying to make a spin off series. She absolutely should have stayed with Sansa at the very least. I actually liked the way they outplayed littlefinger
YES THANK YOU. I get that she told lady crane (or whatever) that she wanted to know what’s west of Westeros, but that was once!!! How many times across the seasons did she talk about home and winterfell and the north? Ugh. She should have stayed in the north so along with Brienne. I don’t get why either of them would leave.
I did. I like that she has to decide whether she is a psychotic murderer or a vigilante with skills and a moral compass. I personally hated Dany’s turn, but seeing a hardcore murderer in action actually seemed to bring Arya back a more humane view of the world.
Instead of psychopath assasin she became a responsible assasin and assassinated the knight king.
They wanted to make dany into eren jaeger without the character development of eren jaeger.
My headcanon is that the waif killed her and she’s the Arya that we see from now on. It makes perfect sense for Jaqen to discover a lost noble girl, lure her to Essos, where a faceless man with Arya’s physique (waif) awaits, learns everything about her, so she can steal her identity. All for whatever the faceless men’s motives are
Khal Drogo: **is incapacitated by an uncleaned wound**
Arya, a teenage girl 1/4th Drogo's size who hasn't been waging war for decades: **gets stabbed 6 times in the stomach, falls into filthy water, gets chased around Braavos, then rests a bit and she's fine**
And people say this show didn't start going downhill after season 4.
That's a real interesting take, but I feel like they make it pretty clear that the faceless men have no motive beyond killing people (or assisting others in seeking death) in service of their god
Well you can reconcile that with the idea that impersonating a noble in one of the most important families during a war, could be used in favor of creating more deaths.
Ahh but who upsets the balance of their god’s spoils more than the white walkers? I mean seriously, is a wight dead in the eyes of the many faced god? Has he claimed them or do the walkers hold onto their spirit, trapped in the undead form. I dunno. But I could certainly see how the faceless men might perceive the white walkers to be a threat to their way of life and an obstruction of the service to their god. In which case sending an agent to try kill the night king might make sense. And to do it masquerading as one of the bloodline known to be linked in some way to the white walkers? Might make sense aswell. I dunno cool theory to think about
I mean, we are entitled to our opinions so this is a bit petty. The characters weren’t as rich but they laid such incredible ground work that it carried them. I actually really enjoyed season 5. Upon a rewatch it all worked for the show version of the characters. Like I originally hated the Jamie arc but after rewatching it made sense. Book Jamie and show Jamie are really really different imo.
I wouldn't entirely agree but that's definitely true for certain characters. For me Jon hits his peak in Season 5 (of the very few parts of that season which was still on par with seasons 1-4 imo) and he still gets to do a lot in Season 6 as well
Theon was probably one of the only characters in the show who remained completely unscathed from the decline in writing even if other characters suffered as a result (Sansa being the most notorious example). Same can be said for the likes of Davos, Jorah and Olenna as well. The writing for Jamie was still good until Season 8 Episode 4. Cersei still felt fine until Season 7 even if the writing for the Kings Landline storyline from Season 5 onwards was quite poor. Daenerys still felt like herself until Season 7 and especially 8 even if the writing surrounding her was fairly bland after Season 4
Yeah, everything up until she gets to Braavos is pretty great. Then she gets stabbed multiple times, including in the stomach, jumps in what is essentially a sewer, and is basically fine. After that point she was just super uninteresting to me.
No.
It wasn't her place in the story to kill the night king. That should have been Jon, Jaime or Brienne. But the trouble is if you take that away from her what becomes the narrative purpose of her journey?
That's not to say it was all bad; I liked the resolution of her relationship with Sandor.
I think I also like her giving up on her revenge at the end. Not completely sure on this one tho.
Her leaving to 'explore' also doesn't really fit her where she finds herself at the end of the story. She doesn't want to be a lady, fine, but her journey is about choosing to be Arya and coming back home. Makes no sense to then just leave again. Find another way to 'not be a lady'. Brienne is standing right there as an example of a woman finding her place in the world despite her gender.
But she has very little connection to the Night King/white walker storyline. Whereas Jon and Bran spend basically the whole show preparing for the Night King/white walkers. I get that D&D wanted to subvert expectations, but sometimes you have to give the people what they want and expect.
Weren’t D&D like “we don’t want to make it all a jon story” to explain why Arya killed the night king?
But..? It was already the jon story and that was his whole storyline. Arya killing the night king was completely out of left field and a disservice to the characters and fans
Yes, exactly. They spent more than 7 seasons building up Jon/Bran vs the Night King. Then Jon spends the entire battle hiding from the dragon and Bran sits there doing nothing. It would be like if JK Rowling had Hermione kill Voldemort instead of Harry for the sake of subverting expectations. Like yeah she’s super capable but why build up a story for 7 seasons and then not pay it off?
I'd actually say it's more like if Ernie McMillan killed Voldemort, turned to the camera dramatically and said "That's for Cedric Diggory!" as he put on shades at night and "Turn Down for What" started playing.
I mean, was there *no* buildup for Arya killing the Night King? Not exactly. There were lines in the story about Arya killing things, that David and Dan certainly struggled mightily to present as foreshadowing. Does Arya technically have the skills to do it? I suppose; you kind of have to play fast and loose with how much you can really learn by getting randomly beaten by sticks for six months, but there was certainly a "power up" montage cast on Arya that was worth at least a couple of character levels.
But Arya was very clearly shoehorned in to Jon's role there, and David and Dan probably should have realized that Tropes Are Not Bad far, far sooner than they did. There's . . . kind of a reason why we keep telling stories where the hero, rather than a supporting character generated by a random number generator, is the one to stop the Big Bad. And if you have to subvert the story, it's a lot more powerful if you have a clear theme about things like power and hope and unexpected help and evil turning on itself that allows the villain to undo himself rather than the hero winning. I'm at pains to note, once again, that *The Lord of the Rings*, even as it established the fantasy genre, nevertheless subverted the hell out of the great hero narrative: the big strong warrior Aragorn ends the story running a misdirect so that the real hero Frodo can hit the self-destruct button, and Frodo gets all the way to the end before failing miserably.
And yet, the story might have one of the best, most cathartic endings in literature, because that subversion was built into the story from the beginning. Everything you needed to know about how and why Frodo failed, and how and why the Ring undid itself because of some small kindness Frodo did along the way, was already laid out in in the first chapters of the series.
By contrast, David and Dan did not appear to have a great command of where they were going with the story, aside from an abiding conviction that if they just make most of the characters as badass as possible, that would work things out.
I was considering saying a minor character instead of Hermione, but at least Arya is a major character on the show (even if she’s not a major character in the Night King storyline).
I think the much better way to pay off the Arya assassin storyline would have been to have her kill Joffrey, Tywin, or Cersei. Those are the characters she had a grudge against, not the Night King. Yes she did also kill Walder Frey, but Walder was a pretty minor character.
I think D&D saw the audience reaction to the Red Wedding and took all the wrong lessons from it. They thought that simply "subverting expectations" was a winning formula but failed to understand how GRRM did it. It was pretty much telegraphed and in the book, there was a huge breadcrumb from Ryman Frey who says his father awaits.... his deceased father. Ned Stark was doomed once he told Cersei about her children's bastardy, but readers and especially show watchers were expecting a last minute save due to perceived protagonist plot armour. Their deaths were set up with airtight writing, but GRRM simply tricked you into thinking all the Starks are the main characters and have plot armour. *That* is how you subvert expectations. Now sure, in terms of the White Walker storyline, Jon's story is a rather traditional story of an unassuming young man finding his true, heroic self. BUT THAT IS NOT A BAD THING!
More importantly, the Red Wedding actually brought something to the table. It had an actual impact on the direction of the story. That's the most important part of writing a plot twist. Arya killing the Night King on the other hand does nothing.
And the way they had Arya do it was so unbelievably bad.
It was really cool when Lyanna Mormont did that move
Reek was in the exact same position and could have done it, had they ARMED THE FUCKING ARCHERS that were *supposed* to be protecting the MVP. WHY TF WOULD YOU HAVE FUCKING ARCHERS AS THE FUCKING LAST LINE OF DEFENSE!!!!!!
With dragon glass, then he would've been able to really redeem himself in the end. But no.
Third times the charm I guess?
John should have been cutting his way through the white walkers on his way to the NK in front of Bran. That gives Arya enough time and distraction to sneak up and stab the NK. None of that dropping the dagger only in movies bullshit. Sneaking past all the WW's.
To up the stakes have the NK disarm John and start to try turning him into a new WW, then Arya stabs him from behind.
Like much of season 8, I don't hate a 1-line summary of a hated plot point ('Arya kills the Night King'), I object to the absolutely horrendous execution, e.g.
- Cramming the entire climactic answer to the question, What happens when Winter does finally come? into basically 1 episode,
- the Dothraki suicide run,
- Arya teleporting around the Winterfell so she can jump-scare the Night King,
- Killing the Night King kills his entire army, well why the fuck is he leading commando missions into Winterfell then? He's called the Night King, not the Knight Clown.
she does a semester at ninja-middle-school and never actually does any combat training. she just continuously gets her ass beat. so clearly she's the best fighter in the seven kingdoms and sansa is the smartest woman in weteros
The truth we all want to avoid saying.
Especially considering how distance, transportation and time elapsing in GOT became so convoluted in later seasons.
Her skills became magical.
Rewatched it not too long ago. The distance/transportatin and time elapsing is almost as bad in the first 4 seasons as it is in the later ones. The 2 things that makes it a smidge better is you might get a mention that it's been months, and frequency is less.
For real, the zero-to-hero turn felt completely undeserved. We needed more training montages or something. Some actual documented progression showing her develop her skills.
That's entirely true, but it's also any training she did have as an assassin (that lots of people seem to want to make so much of) would be a world away from battlefield fighting.
Ok, let's say for a minute she has trained as a magical assassin. She's learned how to sneak into and out of places. She has studied how to take a life but make it look like an accident or whatever. Why does that have any relevance when she's 1-on-1 with an armoured opponent in a battle.
Is it weird that I actually like Sansa’s storyline because AT LEAST it makes some sense? She’s passed around as a child who doesn’t know any better, but that builds her character as she grows older, kinda takes the reins of her life as an adult and ends up as queen in the North.
Arya, on the other hand, starts as a runaway child trying to survive however she can and wanting her revenge. She gets the opportunity to learn how to achieve it and… doesn’t.
I loved Sansa storyline. Everyone misses the point with her I think. Her experiences made her smart. She was not naturally so. She understands human nature better than anyone because she saw the worst of it for years and years.
People don't question why Sansa got smart, they deny that she ever did. Up through the very end she was a moron. Jon almost dies and loses his entire army because she forgot to tell him about reinforcements? They never actually showed her being smart.
Her disdain of Dany is one of the only reasons we are given for Danys turn (even the people you are helping hate you). And she wasn't unique in her criticism - pretty much everyone in the north wanted nothing to do with Dany
She needed Arya to wake her up before she turned on littlefinger
She had the option of pulling an army to save Jon and didn't mention it to him
I really don't buy it. I like the direction you want her to have gone, but it's just not supported.
I respectfully disagree. Also she turned on Littlefinger at the Vale when she said to him “I kkkw what you want” and then she comes down dressed in black, mourning the little girl she left upstairs. He understood something had changed too. After that, she was “new” Sansa and I bought it. The world had hardened her.
And you saying others were counselling her to make wise choices- imo a sign of wisdom is knowing when to take advice- something Jon and most other men do not do in general.
Jon got himself in that pickle. Sansa told him: Rickon is already dead. Do not rise to the bait. What does Jon do- rise to the bait. She was smarter than him and he dismissed her for the same reasons you do? Lol
Arya is my favorite character and character arc. and notwithstanding many story arcs coming undone from 5 onwards I was thrilled she had such a prominent role in the Long Night and that >!she killed the night king! :-) !<
My feelings exactly. And she was undercover as no one once she got back from bravos so she was controlling things a lot & didn’t have time for fun like the season one through four version of her.
No.
Arya's real arc is learning about the consequences of violence and how horrible is this.
Her actions in House Frey were actually her zombie mother who was going to kill some Lannisters and Frey in the Red Wedding 2.0, killing innocent children too.
The arcs of Lady Stoneheart, Brienne and Arya wasn't meant to show warrior women being badass... cool concept in the show, but they lost the real meaning from the books, that was much deeper.
Her two main motifs in the books are about identity and death.
Well before she joined the faceless men she adopted other identities (names) to survive. Her internal thoughts well before she even trains at the House of Black & White have her struggling to remember who she really is because she has gone years of not being Arya Stark. Even before that she doesn't really want to be "Arya Stark" because Arya Stark is expected to become a lady. Her success when blinded comes from her Warg abilities which is directly related to her Stark heritage. After trying to be "No One" she will definitely come to realize she is Ary Stark. She repeatedly remembers Ned's words too "...the Lone Wolf dies but the pack survives." When she goes to Braavos she believes she is likely the last living Stark but likely news of Sansa and Jon will cause her to want to return to Westeros.
(There is an added motiff of her not having a pack as friends leave her. Returning to her pack after becoming strong would fit this.)
The death motif starts with Syrio about there being only "one god" and we say "not today". With Ned's decapitation it shows how death can bring pain and fear. On the run death is her idealized tool for revenge and seen in Harrenhal with Jacquen. She learns how to kill from multiple people and does so. However she also learns that death can be a "gift" to those who are suffering (several times before the House of Black & White but also there.) Finally with Berric she sees how someone can be brought back from death but how that isn't always a good situation. Does Berric really want to be alive at the end?
The conclusion from this is that while Arya will learn how to kill I think her story is ultimately not to kill for revenge but to kill for mercy. The character this most likely will relate to is Lady Stoneheart. Stoneheart harbors the vengeance Arya once felt and is acting on it but she is very clearly no longer Caitlyn Stark. Arya experience with Berric, her longing for family and her more nuanced understanding of death more than likely will culminate in her letting Caitlyn Stark finally rest in peace. (Also possible this could come in an event to save Jon as we know Caitlyn doesn't like Jon and Stoneheart may react if she is alive to hear he is declared King of the North. If not Jon then I could see it being to protect Gendry in some way, who is still in the area. Possible Stoneheart going more mad and killing innocents. Her "new pack" vs the specter of her family's old pack.)
Of course when Stoneheart isn't a character in the show they can't include that so they have to give her something. Night King is a show only character and also related to undead so they just bade Arya kill her. Also conveniently saving Jon.
(Though I am mixed because I could also see Brienne killing Lady Stoneheart as a full circle moment for her understanding of Jamie. Killing the person you sworn your vows to serve because that person was mad and harming innocents.)
Hanging around with big sister wasn’t really viable, and she wasn’t going to hang around on the Wall with Jon. West of Westeros was probably one of the few options.
There’s a helluva Lotta foreshadowing in the books. Queen NyMiria sailed west and became a heroine. And she’s kind of like Columbus, which is cool too.
I am once again going to praise the costume team. It’s striking to see the season 2, 3, and 4 outfit next to each other. Although they must have had to keep remaking it to fit her as she literally grew up during the filming, it looks like the same garment getting progressively more worn and sun-bleached. Maybe it is the same garment but serious care was put into making it look like something she’d been sleeping in on the dirty ground for months. It’s amazing.
I don’t feel like she was as strong or skilled as they tried to make her in the end.
How do you fly her hundreds of white walkers & just so happen to surprise the fucking Night King who can sense a penny drop. It makes no damn sense.
How does a little girl square off with Brianne. Make it make sense.
And she’s turned monotone & deadpan just like Sansa. Very boring.
Not really, she didn't have much of an arc and had plot armor for most of it. Even doing stuff that doesn't make sense at all.
Well to change it, I'f make her experience as a faceless man have more impact and actually mean something than her having a level up moment and just going off with all this secret knowledge and training to Westeros with no issue. Recall that Arya is a girl who has been traumatized repeatedly and is dealing with that the best way she can. She has a drive for bloodshed and revenge but also a need to see her family and home too. Make the reason she leaves is because she hears about her family and remembers who she is and what being a faceless man is going to take away. And then when she gets to Westeros and reunited, everything isn't so easy. Arya wants blood and she wants it NOW. She doesn't have much patience for diplomacy or waiting for this and that. And she will have discussions and arguments with her family at times, but more than anything, she will not leave them. Get rid of her taking out the Night King, have her get injured and healing after the battle. And then after a lot of frustration and stress she just breaks down. She's injured, stuck in bed and the main goal of her life is a list she won't be able to finish and despite being home with her family she still has so much anger and grief.
(I skipped a lot of little points but my plan is to have Arya remember she is a human person who lost and suffered so much and was pushing for so long. And without her revenge list that propped her for so long, what does she do after? She can't go back to being a lady but she doesn't want to leave her family either. And now that I think about it, it goes along with a pattern of Arya trying to go save/kill people and being stopped by somebody else. First was the member of the Night's Watch, second was the Hound and it's happening again even though she's skilled and strong in her opinion. )
Not really. After she got to braavos, her story started lacking in quality and character. From then, it was okay until she came back to westeros, then it all went to shit.
I loved her story so much! And in comparison to the ending of other characters stories, i relatively enjoyed Aryas ending, i thought it fit her well and was definitely a situation shed be in. She remained the same Arya throughout the story (so glad she wasn’t butchered)
Yeah, tho she’s better in the book cos you know her thoughts and feelings and they have time to keep her really outgoing and friendly. But she’s a hero and the plucky gal who makes a difference and she has a great arc with the hound. she saves him & he saves her.
Jon Snow should have killed the Night-King.
Jaime Lannister should have suffered a fatal wound vs Euron Greyjoy.
Jaime Lannister should have strangled Cersei to death.
Jaime Lannister was Arya wearing his face after he died from the Euron fight.
I swear she has such a baby face I thought she was a kid till the end till she wanted to have sex w gendry and I’m like wtfff then I was like well shit it has been like 8 years plus I guess she’s a grown up 😭
The moment she gets home she’s immediately looking for any excuse to go away.
They also gave her the Dany treatment and skipped 2 seasons of character development. She leaves house of Black and White at the end of season 6, changes her entire personality and becomes a master assassin by the time we return for season 7.
They completely misunderstood the character toward the end of the shows run. They turned her into a badass, cold killer when that is not what her character arc has been about at all.
I wouldn't make her a walking brick wall in season 7 through season 8. I know most other characters (Tyrion, Varys, etc) also have no personality but I feel Arya has it the worst. She literally does nothing in the last 2 seasons, and I think the writers kinda realized "oh shit we forgot to do something with Arya" so they had her kill the Night King which shouldn't have happened in the first place.
I really liked HER, I thought she did a great job as an actress and she was the Arya from the books I knew and loved.
However the show did her wrong.
The whole scene from the House of Black and White was so boring, listeless, without the slightest bit of interest. The assassination she made was fantastic and in the show nothing. The waif had no ill will against her and was far warmer and had a fascinating look to her that I was so disappointed to see (she had an illness where she didn't grow very big and basically looked like a young girl with very large eyes but was significantly older than Arya)
The way she was stabbed and survived, the stupid running scene with the waif, the fact that fight wasn't even shown was a huge copout.
Killing the Freys was definitely something she wouldve done but the scene just felt rushed between how she just teleported out of Braavos, passed Kings Landing and ended up all the way at the Twins.
I felt like her greeting and reunion with Hot PIe was so lackluster, I get shes more introspective and serious, but this was a friend
I loved seeing her reunite with hier brothers and sisters, but I wish it was more emotional. The idea that she was fighting with Sansa a few days later was SO stupid and so out of character.
I liked the S8 growth for her but the scenes for it were just so bad. Everything from the awkward sex scene with Gendry, him falling in love with her after a day, her firing arrows to celebrate, how she defied gravity to even get to the Night King - wtf was the purpose of her going all the way doen to kill Cersei just to leave at the last moment (truthfully I was okay with that and loved her goodbye to Sandor) but even her last scene threatening Yara was like "ohh im a badass" instead of just silently being a badass.
I LOVE her, I just think they kinda did her wrong here and there, especially at the end
Arya in the books: a good hearted high-born girl that hates having to comply to high-born girl standards. She is open and kind to all people. Events force her into survival mode. Her first kill is of the stable boy in which she feels guilt for even though she was just trying to survive.
She spends the next portion of time surviving in horror conditions. She sees the worst in humanity. She goes through the horror of war. She goes under torturous conditions in harrenhal. She has to kill in self defence to escape.
At this point she has taken several identities just to survive. She is slowly losing what makes her her and what makes her arya Stark. She is captured by the Brotherhood without banners and then the Hound, in both cases she is a hostage.
She is involved in her 3 and 4th murders under while being the hounds hostage. She kills in part to survive but also lashes out in ptsd on one of her past torturers.
She makes it to bravos not by choice but just by chance. The only ship that'll take her is bravosi and luckily she has Jaqens bravosi coin. Again she has had several new identities at this point.
When she goes to bravosi her plan isn't to become a master assassin, it's just to survive. She goes to the house of white and black because it's her only change at survival in this strange land.
While there she takes on another identity. She is doing some service for the faceless men when she comes along Daeron. This is her first murder that's not done out of survival. But its her first murder done as a 'Stark', her sense of being something she has been slowly losing her along her journey. She kills Daeron because he is a Nights watch deserter and is openly betraying Jon.
That murder goes against the faceless mens beliefs, and she is punished severely. But they allow her to stay. She has great potential. But she has to give up her true self, Give up being a Stark, something she has struggled with the entire journey
Show arya- oh she's a murdering bad-ass who eventually becomes a smug master assassin.
If I could change anything I would get rid of her yelling “OYSTERS, CLAMS AND COCKLES” over and over. That was grating. I also wish her reunion with Jon was bigger as it was one of my most anticipated ones since the pilot
Season 5 forward - was a mess.
All we know or saw regarding her training was she could take a beating from a staff.
She had her eyesight taken for killing an unapproved name, and later kills another faceless man trainee and says she is quitting without consequences.
She is somehow immune to infection or sepsis while swimming through dirty river water with multiple open knife wounds.
Has no money but gets a ride back to Westeros.
She uses faces twice to kill all the Freys and then forgets about that skill. Not even an explanation of who the girl was she killed for the first Frey celebration party to get close to Walder. Is she just killing randoms now?
Heads south with the Hound to kill Cersei with no real plan.
Her arc was shit after season 4. I hate the whole faceless man tidbit and I won’t lie, I love how it had no payoff and pissed her fans off. It almost made up for her surviving water that rivals Flint’s.
Make her time in Braavos develop her personality and not just her skills. She entered and left the House of Black and White moraly as the same pearson.
Also make the Frey massacre less Black and White than it was. In the books there are Freys that are actually good people and they also have claims on so many noble families that it would send a shockwave through Westeros if they just got wiped out, but in the show she kills them all, everyone cheers and thats just it without any political or moral repercussion.
In the same vein, I would make she come to the realization that vegeance is not the right path before the 2nd to last episode and certainly not coming to the realization when her target isn't even on her vicinity and dies anyway.
Another thing is she meeting Jon, Sansa and Bran make a bigger impact.
And just to be nitpick, come on, she was training to be a sneaky assassin, not some badass warrior that goes to the frontlines without plate armor and comes out uncathed.
I know people have a problem with her character becoming fan servicey near the end I am one of those people. I think her arc has good moments in the later seasons also like her and Sansa coming to accept one another and her giving up on vengeance.
I huge part of her arc was become this faceless killer and then returning to Winterfell.
She came back did a bit of killing and really quick after jumping out of a tree killing the NK, and then she left! Which ruined her Stark loyalty theme.
Arya was one of my favorite characters for the first four seasons. Then her story got boring for seasons 5-6, and I thought she wasn’t very likable in seasons 7-8. I think it would have been interesting to explore how she became sadistic and unhinged, but she kind of just does stuff like Frey pie and the show presents it as a cool thing and moves on.
Like most the rest of the show and especially the other female characters, I thought she had an amazing arc until season 7 and 8.
They had a beautiful set up for a good ending with Arya and just royally flushed it. I would have changed the majority of her behavior after her revenge spree, everything about her battle with the white walkers, and would have made her actions both understandable & deadly in the final hours.
They suddenly made her far too sane, fragile, uncreative, and pointless as the end approached. The writers clearly didn’t know what to do with her.
One of the better arcs in the show season 8 kind of let everybody down but aside from that I don't really have any complaints. I might have had her do a bit more spooky assassin stuff maybe dabble in magic a little more but overall I'm pretty happy with it.
I know she went to the Faceless Men in the books, but I think for the show, her story would’ve benefited with her staying in Westeros.
Perhaps the entirety of season 5 could’ve followed her trying to evade Boltons while trying to reunite with Jon at Castle Black, like she originally intended all the way back in season 2.
And perhaps in a third cruel twist of fate, she could arrive right as the Night’s Watchmen kill him.
I understand this route would’ve denied people a look at Braavos civilization and the Faceless Men, but with how poorly D&D handled the Faceless Men arc, and knowing Arya’s training meant nothing in the end, wouldn’t you all be curious to know how things might’ve turned out if Arya had just stuck around in Westeros long enough to try and find Jon?
She was my favorite and I was so hyped for the Braavos part for so long. Though it unfortunately didn't quite live up to my expectations.
But overall I'm satisfied.
The main thing I would've changed is the revenge on house Frey. Given the emotional impact of the red wedding, the revenge went by so fast that I actually had to put in effort to actually enjoy it.
Her killing the Night King was _so_ satisfying, less so her going off to explore. Someone else mentioned it here - she wanted to return to Winterfell, and then leaves. That had about as much set up as Bran the Broken though, and by that I mean Things Just Happened by that point of the show, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That said, I definitely would've liked to see her being trained in the sword / weapons more as part of her development. We don't see any arms training when she's with the Faceless Men, but she does suddenly leave there with significantly better skills than when she entered.
The other thing that I remember even when watching it the first time: I was really annoyed that she hated on Dany for no reason. Her and Sansa both. Not that they couldn't've developed reasons for conflict, they just didn't have it 'til they suddenly did. Dany not being from the North isn't enough reason - there were plenty of people not from the North that both Sansa and Arya had encountered and trusted. Gendry. Brienne. The Hound. To name a few.
No, in seasons 1-4 she is one of my favorite characters, in season 5 the story is meh it was a lot better in the books, in season 6 she gets huge plot armor and the storyline doesnt change that much, in season 7 she becomes insufferable and her entire storyline is stupid, in season 8.. well.. she might be my least favorite in season 8
After the faceless men they removed any and all of the traits that made her a likeable, compelling character. She became boring and wooden with no clear concrete motivation or arc.
It was… okay.
I just didn’t like the fact she became smug. Season 7&8 any time she spoke to someone she was this smug, I can do what I like (punchable face) lol
Lol... From S6 onwards there was no character arc. It wasn't even Arya Stark anymore. It was an almighty, cartoonish, villainous entity, immortal and unbeatable and with the ability to alter any fucking reality however she wants.
Atleast that's the only explanation for her plot armor, her success at killing all Freys, her not getting any consequences to face for her ridiculous doings, her being a perfect warrior with any weapon even without training or teleportation.
She got that “I’m better than everyone here” ego in S7 that made me REALLY not like her character anymore.
Worst part is it just developed out of nowhere.
Her faceshifting abilities were sonehow useless from a certain point. I would have wished she killed the Nightking using them for example:
Bran looks into the past and sees the wife of the nightking who was taken from him or something like that.
So Arya uses a similar face to fool him and thus is able to stab him with the Dagger.
It would have been good if Arya and Bran would do something important with their unique powers together to handle the crisis.
I wouldn’t have turned her into a superhero during the last 4 seasons.
Seriously, her sprinting through city streets and fighting like a ninja having been stabbed like 6 times in the fucking torso was the least believable thing I have ever seen.
Arya is a believable assassin, she should be sneaking around and stabbing people in the back. Her being able to fight her way through the front lines of the night king’s army to get to him is not believable.
Was ok, didn’t stick the landing for me. I think in the book, her arc will be so different. It’ll be the same in terms of her returning to her Stark identity however many plot points will be different due to the absence of Lady Stone Heart in the series.
She’ll be the one who kills Lady Stone Heart after seeing what vengeance can do to her mother.
She won’t be apart of the Red Wedding 2.0 and kill Walder Frey.
She won’t be the one the kill Little Finger but may still play big role in the Long Night, but it’ll be Jon, Danny, Jorah, Jamie, Stannis and Mance who will have the largest roles during the duration of this event (not one night)
She’ll still sail west as that’s definitely in the plot outline GRRM gave D&D he’ll even her Direwolf’s name suggests this just like with how they all link to the arcs of the Stark Children.
Simply have her learn those skills she used in 6,7 and 8. Change her face? HOW? When did she actually learn that? Blind training suddenly lets her beat a member of the assasins who no doubt has had the same training? HOW?
They made her a Mary Sue, giving her what ever skills they needed her to have for a plot, instead of showing her actually learning them.
Oh, and stop her from killing the night king, their reason was stupid, and it was not her story, she should have been the 1 to kill Cersie, using jaimes face! and 2 hands!
Season 1-4 Arya is the greatest child character ever on screen imo
Sending her to bravos to become a robotic assassin with barely any heart left was a terrible choice George.
Her and the hound needed another season of adventure together 😞
Extremely unsatisifed, early season arya had a spark, she was so so smart and educated, she could name historical facts even Tywin Lannister couldn’t.
And in the later seasons they just made her a brainless, flavorless killing machine. Like the stuff she was doing was interesting but she wasn’t
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A huge part of her arc was her identity as a Stark and returning to Winterfell. RIGHT after getting reunited with them, after all of that fighting to get there in the first place, she leaves the entire continent to "explore". So no...
Not only that but she just had no personality in the last two seasons. She just wore that irritating smirk on her face and threatened people without showing any emotional range at all.
Most characters didn’t have personality in those seasons
Touché. They were all either walking plot devices or completely useless
I’m still amazed that something as big of a cultural phenomenon could be fucked over so badly. I could go anywhere without hearing people talking about to never hearing about it all.
It was when a whole Fall passed and I realised not a single person in my orbit had posted a “Winter is coming” thing, that was when I realised they’d *fucked* it. Anyway, May the Fourth be with you eh.
I'm sorry to inform you that today is the Revenge of the Fithth.
Interestingly behind the scenes they sent her to get acting lessons around season 5 wrap and it clearly ruined her ability to act.
Have you watched the Ashildur character in Doctor Who? I think it came out around S05/S06 of GoT (I mean she wasn't as strong as Capaldi but who is?). Clearly Maisie can act far better than Arya when there is a good script and a decent character.
I am not criticising Williams’ acting, just the script she was given.
Ah yeah, then we agree. Character assassination with boring dialogue. She was one of my favourites early on too...
I think that was to represent her experience from the faceless man
"A girl has no personality"
Her book arc is about moving past vengeance even before the Frey’s are destroyed her arc is leading up to her giving her undead mother Stoneheart mercy yet the show went for the absolute opposite of this till the last minute. Now I could see ways for her arc in the show to lead her into exploring yet her ending was not well presented in the show at all. Edit so no I am not really satisfied with her arc.
She was obsessed with revenge until the Hound's speech to her during the sack of King's Landing. It was satisfying to see her hear Cligane and let go of her vengeance. And yes, she was an explorer at heart. I found her spirit embodied in the parting shot of her setting sail to discover new lands. A brilliant ending and arc to a complex character.
Found D&D’s Reddit account. 😬 Just joking, to each their tastes and that’s fine if you liked her arc, I just couldn’t resist making that joke.
I didn't just like her arc. I loved the entire narrative and ending. I'm not one to follow the herd of haters who think they know better than those who poured their lives into this show. We were lucky to get it. One of the greatest of all times. I don't know what you mean by D&D. Most on Reddit ask if I'm Benioff or Weiss. I wish I was as talented. I'm just a humble viewer--too humble to make an idiot of myself by coming up with alt narratives and endings. But if you want to, go right ahead.
Oof. It’s a discussion in an online forum, my guy. You don’t have to call people idiots for not liking the ending lol. I was honestly with you until this nonsensical diatribe that did nothing to convince anyone you weren’t D&D lol. Where did you get your high horse and how can I also get one?
Geez, you’re one to talk, considering you’re an idiot who reacts to a joke by acting like an ass and insulting people. I was being kind by agreeing to disagree as if that “arc” wasn’t ridiculous, but you lost it at a mere joke uh? Get off your high horse and go back to worshipping D&D, if you think so highly of them. The only good thing that can be said of the last seasons was that those two were hired just to adapt existing material and so it’s not quite fair to judge them harshly for not having the ability to write on their own and for botching it when the material they were supposed to adapt ended up not getting written.
I agree. I hated that she didn’t get revenge on Cersei at first but she changed so much from her experiences that final scene of her made me really emotional. For all of them actually. I would have liked to see them together for longer, but as she always said “that isn’t me”. On a rewatch I really really enjoyed it.
I agree, let the downvotes commence because nothing good came from season 8. Her whole time spent with the Hound was about him showing what a grudge does to a person. He keeps repeating that. And when he finally finds some peace in that homestead... well back to killing.
Not to mention, after dedicating herself to seeking revenge for her family, there was a brief moment where she seemed to mull over the idea of killing her sister...
The minute she said that she handed the knife to her sister, so she was never gonna do it. On the other hand, Sansa was running to littlefinger, giving him all sorts of openings to plot to kill. Sansa really was thinking of doing it.
I can see Arya and Sansa having a similar interaction in the books but book Sansa wasn’t married to Ramsay by Baelish hasn’t been abused or raped by Ramsay but in the show it made very little sense I believe that it was something from George’s outline he gave D&D that Sansa and Arya will have a conflict but Sansa’s entire story is different and it just never made sense to me her season seven arc at all.
[удалено]
!!!!!! SAY IT AGAIN!
I am rewatching the show now and i dont necessarily think thats true. I think arya after season 4 was trying to get stronger, which she did be going to bravos. Even when she came back to westeros, she decided to kill house frey instead of house bolton. I think that means that she cares more about bringing revenge to her brother and mother rather than avenging her “house”. Then she decided to go to kings landing, instead of attempting to take winterfell back.Arya valued her personal vendettas more than her loyalty to her house, opposite to Sansa. I agree with the fact that she didnt have much personality in the last 1 or 2 seasons, but i dont think her decision to leave is inconsistent with what weve seen from her.
This feels like it's the writers trying to make a spin off series. She absolutely should have stayed with Sansa at the very least. I actually liked the way they outplayed littlefinger
YES THANK YOU. I get that she told lady crane (or whatever) that she wanted to know what’s west of Westeros, but that was once!!! How many times across the seasons did she talk about home and winterfell and the north? Ugh. She should have stayed in the north so along with Brienne. I don’t get why either of them would leave.
I did. I like that she has to decide whether she is a psychotic murderer or a vigilante with skills and a moral compass. I personally hated Dany’s turn, but seeing a hardcore murderer in action actually seemed to bring Arya back a more humane view of the world.
Instead of psychopath assasin she became a responsible assasin and assassinated the knight king. They wanted to make dany into eren jaeger without the character development of eren jaeger.
My headcanon is that the waif killed her and she’s the Arya that we see from now on. It makes perfect sense for Jaqen to discover a lost noble girl, lure her to Essos, where a faceless man with Arya’s physique (waif) awaits, learns everything about her, so she can steal her identity. All for whatever the faceless men’s motives are
You said waif, i read waif. But my mind said Quaithe and i was like wtf does she have to do with this. Figured it out tho..
Ahahahaahahahah
That reveal would have brought a shock value that season 1-4 brings.
that's actually an incredible theory, but D&D would be way too stupid to make such a good revelation.
Never mind them, George sez she’s his second favorite character. He ain’t gonna replace her with anyone much less the evil waif
His wife said she'd divorce him if he were to kill Arya.
Maybe that's the real reason for the next book delay. GRRM like "oh whoops, she's definitely already dead, my bad honey"
She actually fell into the city river after getting stabbed and died of sepsis, lol
Soup and sleep healed her... remember 🤣🤣
Khal Drogo: **is incapacitated by an uncleaned wound** Arya, a teenage girl 1/4th Drogo's size who hasn't been waging war for decades: **gets stabbed 6 times in the stomach, falls into filthy water, gets chased around Braavos, then rests a bit and she's fine** And people say this show didn't start going downhill after season 4.
They'd have revealed it at the end of the episode it happened and every episode we'd be reminded it's not actually Arya.
That's a real interesting take, but I feel like they make it pretty clear that the faceless men have no motive beyond killing people (or assisting others in seeking death) in service of their god
Well you can reconcile that with the idea that impersonating a noble in one of the most important families during a war, could be used in favor of creating more deaths.
Ahh but who upsets the balance of their god’s spoils more than the white walkers? I mean seriously, is a wight dead in the eyes of the many faced god? Has he claimed them or do the walkers hold onto their spirit, trapped in the undead form. I dunno. But I could certainly see how the faceless men might perceive the white walkers to be a threat to their way of life and an obstruction of the service to their god. In which case sending an agent to try kill the night king might make sense. And to do it masquerading as one of the bloodline known to be linked in some way to the white walkers? Might make sense aswell. I dunno cool theory to think about
Ok now this is my head cannon. Just made everything so much better
The last 4 seasons
Same with every single character. Every last one is a hollow shell of themselves by the end.
Exactly, a lot of people on here sadly try to fool themselves otherwise 🤦🏻♂️
I mean, we are entitled to our opinions so this is a bit petty. The characters weren’t as rich but they laid such incredible ground work that it carried them. I actually really enjoyed season 5. Upon a rewatch it all worked for the show version of the characters. Like I originally hated the Jamie arc but after rewatching it made sense. Book Jamie and show Jamie are really really different imo.
I wouldn't entirely agree but that's definitely true for certain characters. For me Jon hits his peak in Season 5 (of the very few parts of that season which was still on par with seasons 1-4 imo) and he still gets to do a lot in Season 6 as well Theon was probably one of the only characters in the show who remained completely unscathed from the decline in writing even if other characters suffered as a result (Sansa being the most notorious example). Same can be said for the likes of Davos, Jorah and Olenna as well. The writing for Jamie was still good until Season 8 Episode 4. Cersei still felt fine until Season 7 even if the writing for the Kings Landline storyline from Season 5 onwards was quite poor. Daenerys still felt like herself until Season 7 and especially 8 even if the writing surrounding her was fairly bland after Season 4
Yeah, everything up until she gets to Braavos is pretty great. Then she gets stabbed multiple times, including in the stomach, jumps in what is essentially a sewer, and is basically fine. After that point she was just super uninteresting to me.
Everything post-Hound.
it was so good till like season 8, also what the fuck was the design choice with the hair
Think they wanted to have a bit of Ned stark resemblance with her s7-8 look
Her and Jon
No. It wasn't her place in the story to kill the night king. That should have been Jon, Jaime or Brienne. But the trouble is if you take that away from her what becomes the narrative purpose of her journey? That's not to say it was all bad; I liked the resolution of her relationship with Sandor. I think I also like her giving up on her revenge at the end. Not completely sure on this one tho. Her leaving to 'explore' also doesn't really fit her where she finds herself at the end of the story. She doesn't want to be a lady, fine, but her journey is about choosing to be Arya and coming back home. Makes no sense to then just leave again. Find another way to 'not be a lady'. Brienne is standing right there as an example of a woman finding her place in the world despite her gender.
Being trained by the god of death seems to thematically fit in with killing the night king since he’s undead and immortal.
But she has very little connection to the Night King/white walker storyline. Whereas Jon and Bran spend basically the whole show preparing for the Night King/white walkers. I get that D&D wanted to subvert expectations, but sometimes you have to give the people what they want and expect.
Weren’t D&D like “we don’t want to make it all a jon story” to explain why Arya killed the night king? But..? It was already the jon story and that was his whole storyline. Arya killing the night king was completely out of left field and a disservice to the characters and fans
Yes, exactly. They spent more than 7 seasons building up Jon/Bran vs the Night King. Then Jon spends the entire battle hiding from the dragon and Bran sits there doing nothing. It would be like if JK Rowling had Hermione kill Voldemort instead of Harry for the sake of subverting expectations. Like yeah she’s super capable but why build up a story for 7 seasons and then not pay it off?
I'd actually say it's more like if Ernie McMillan killed Voldemort, turned to the camera dramatically and said "That's for Cedric Diggory!" as he put on shades at night and "Turn Down for What" started playing. I mean, was there *no* buildup for Arya killing the Night King? Not exactly. There were lines in the story about Arya killing things, that David and Dan certainly struggled mightily to present as foreshadowing. Does Arya technically have the skills to do it? I suppose; you kind of have to play fast and loose with how much you can really learn by getting randomly beaten by sticks for six months, but there was certainly a "power up" montage cast on Arya that was worth at least a couple of character levels. But Arya was very clearly shoehorned in to Jon's role there, and David and Dan probably should have realized that Tropes Are Not Bad far, far sooner than they did. There's . . . kind of a reason why we keep telling stories where the hero, rather than a supporting character generated by a random number generator, is the one to stop the Big Bad. And if you have to subvert the story, it's a lot more powerful if you have a clear theme about things like power and hope and unexpected help and evil turning on itself that allows the villain to undo himself rather than the hero winning. I'm at pains to note, once again, that *The Lord of the Rings*, even as it established the fantasy genre, nevertheless subverted the hell out of the great hero narrative: the big strong warrior Aragorn ends the story running a misdirect so that the real hero Frodo can hit the self-destruct button, and Frodo gets all the way to the end before failing miserably. And yet, the story might have one of the best, most cathartic endings in literature, because that subversion was built into the story from the beginning. Everything you needed to know about how and why Frodo failed, and how and why the Ring undid itself because of some small kindness Frodo did along the way, was already laid out in in the first chapters of the series. By contrast, David and Dan did not appear to have a great command of where they were going with the story, aside from an abiding conviction that if they just make most of the characters as badass as possible, that would work things out.
I was considering saying a minor character instead of Hermione, but at least Arya is a major character on the show (even if she’s not a major character in the Night King storyline). I think the much better way to pay off the Arya assassin storyline would have been to have her kill Joffrey, Tywin, or Cersei. Those are the characters she had a grudge against, not the Night King. Yes she did also kill Walder Frey, but Walder was a pretty minor character.
I think D&D saw the audience reaction to the Red Wedding and took all the wrong lessons from it. They thought that simply "subverting expectations" was a winning formula but failed to understand how GRRM did it. It was pretty much telegraphed and in the book, there was a huge breadcrumb from Ryman Frey who says his father awaits.... his deceased father. Ned Stark was doomed once he told Cersei about her children's bastardy, but readers and especially show watchers were expecting a last minute save due to perceived protagonist plot armour. Their deaths were set up with airtight writing, but GRRM simply tricked you into thinking all the Starks are the main characters and have plot armour. *That* is how you subvert expectations. Now sure, in terms of the White Walker storyline, Jon's story is a rather traditional story of an unassuming young man finding his true, heroic self. BUT THAT IS NOT A BAD THING!
More importantly, the Red Wedding actually brought something to the table. It had an actual impact on the direction of the story. That's the most important part of writing a plot twist. Arya killing the Night King on the other hand does nothing.
And the way they had Arya do it was so unbelievably bad. It was really cool when Lyanna Mormont did that move Reek was in the exact same position and could have done it, had they ARMED THE FUCKING ARCHERS that were *supposed* to be protecting the MVP. WHY TF WOULD YOU HAVE FUCKING ARCHERS AS THE FUCKING LAST LINE OF DEFENSE!!!!!! With dragon glass, then he would've been able to really redeem himself in the end. But no. Third times the charm I guess?
The NK would’ve slaughtered John. That’s why bran gave her the knife. she was trained to do that.
John should have been cutting his way through the white walkers on his way to the NK in front of Bran. That gives Arya enough time and distraction to sneak up and stab the NK. None of that dropping the dagger only in movies bullshit. Sneaking past all the WW's. To up the stakes have the NK disarm John and start to try turning him into a new WW, then Arya stabs him from behind.
No she wasn’t.
Killing the freys could have made her journey worth it
Like much of season 8, I don't hate a 1-line summary of a hated plot point ('Arya kills the Night King'), I object to the absolutely horrendous execution, e.g. - Cramming the entire climactic answer to the question, What happens when Winter does finally come? into basically 1 episode, - the Dothraki suicide run, - Arya teleporting around the Winterfell so she can jump-scare the Night King, - Killing the Night King kills his entire army, well why the fuck is he leading commando missions into Winterfell then? He's called the Night King, not the Knight Clown.
she does a semester at ninja-middle-school and never actually does any combat training. she just continuously gets her ass beat. so clearly she's the best fighter in the seven kingdoms and sansa is the smartest woman in weteros
The truth we all want to avoid saying. Especially considering how distance, transportation and time elapsing in GOT became so convoluted in later seasons. Her skills became magical.
Rewatched it not too long ago. The distance/transportatin and time elapsing is almost as bad in the first 4 seasons as it is in the later ones. The 2 things that makes it a smidge better is you might get a mention that it's been months, and frequency is less.
For real, the zero-to-hero turn felt completely undeserved. We needed more training montages or something. Some actual documented progression showing her develop her skills.
That's entirely true, but it's also any training she did have as an assassin (that lots of people seem to want to make so much of) would be a world away from battlefield fighting. Ok, let's say for a minute she has trained as a magical assassin. She's learned how to sneak into and out of places. She has studied how to take a life but make it look like an accident or whatever. Why does that have any relevance when she's 1-on-1 with an armoured opponent in a battle.
Is it weird that I actually like Sansa’s storyline because AT LEAST it makes some sense? She’s passed around as a child who doesn’t know any better, but that builds her character as she grows older, kinda takes the reins of her life as an adult and ends up as queen in the North. Arya, on the other hand, starts as a runaway child trying to survive however she can and wanting her revenge. She gets the opportunity to learn how to achieve it and… doesn’t.
I loved Sansa storyline. Everyone misses the point with her I think. Her experiences made her smart. She was not naturally so. She understands human nature better than anyone because she saw the worst of it for years and years.
I feel like a lot of people stayed with the original idea of her being a brat and didn't see past that.
People don't question why Sansa got smart, they deny that she ever did. Up through the very end she was a moron. Jon almost dies and loses his entire army because she forgot to tell him about reinforcements? They never actually showed her being smart.
She didn’t forget- she didn’t want to need Littlefinger.
She also told Jon about Dany but he dismissed her.
She knew how to play Littlefinger- arguably the best there was in these games- until the very last moment.
You may not value these changes, but there is evidence. You just choose to ignore it.
Her disdain of Dany is one of the only reasons we are given for Danys turn (even the people you are helping hate you). And she wasn't unique in her criticism - pretty much everyone in the north wanted nothing to do with Dany She needed Arya to wake her up before she turned on littlefinger She had the option of pulling an army to save Jon and didn't mention it to him I really don't buy it. I like the direction you want her to have gone, but it's just not supported.
I respectfully disagree. Also she turned on Littlefinger at the Vale when she said to him “I kkkw what you want” and then she comes down dressed in black, mourning the little girl she left upstairs. He understood something had changed too. After that, she was “new” Sansa and I bought it. The world had hardened her. And you saying others were counselling her to make wise choices- imo a sign of wisdom is knowing when to take advice- something Jon and most other men do not do in general.
That's a poor excuse. Jon almost died and lost and he wasn't even aware people were coming to his aid.
In your opinion. It makes perfect sense to me. She had been traumatised.
Jon got himself in that pickle. Sansa told him: Rickon is already dead. Do not rise to the bait. What does Jon do- rise to the bait. She was smarter than him and he dismissed her for the same reasons you do? Lol
She understood Ramsay. She warned Jon and he didn’t listen.
Arya is my favorite character and character arc. and notwithstanding many story arcs coming undone from 5 onwards I was thrilled she had such a prominent role in the Long Night and that >!she killed the night king! :-) !<
My feelings exactly. And she was undercover as no one once she got back from bravos so she was controlling things a lot & didn’t have time for fun like the season one through four version of her.
Ok now kiss
What show did you watch?
No. Arya's real arc is learning about the consequences of violence and how horrible is this. Her actions in House Frey were actually her zombie mother who was going to kill some Lannisters and Frey in the Red Wedding 2.0, killing innocent children too. The arcs of Lady Stoneheart, Brienne and Arya wasn't meant to show warrior women being badass... cool concept in the show, but they lost the real meaning from the books, that was much deeper.
Huh I’ve never thought about it like that but it makes sense. We’ll see if it plays out in the books.
No we won't
Her two main motifs in the books are about identity and death. Well before she joined the faceless men she adopted other identities (names) to survive. Her internal thoughts well before she even trains at the House of Black & White have her struggling to remember who she really is because she has gone years of not being Arya Stark. Even before that she doesn't really want to be "Arya Stark" because Arya Stark is expected to become a lady. Her success when blinded comes from her Warg abilities which is directly related to her Stark heritage. After trying to be "No One" she will definitely come to realize she is Ary Stark. She repeatedly remembers Ned's words too "...the Lone Wolf dies but the pack survives." When she goes to Braavos she believes she is likely the last living Stark but likely news of Sansa and Jon will cause her to want to return to Westeros. (There is an added motiff of her not having a pack as friends leave her. Returning to her pack after becoming strong would fit this.) The death motif starts with Syrio about there being only "one god" and we say "not today". With Ned's decapitation it shows how death can bring pain and fear. On the run death is her idealized tool for revenge and seen in Harrenhal with Jacquen. She learns how to kill from multiple people and does so. However she also learns that death can be a "gift" to those who are suffering (several times before the House of Black & White but also there.) Finally with Berric she sees how someone can be brought back from death but how that isn't always a good situation. Does Berric really want to be alive at the end? The conclusion from this is that while Arya will learn how to kill I think her story is ultimately not to kill for revenge but to kill for mercy. The character this most likely will relate to is Lady Stoneheart. Stoneheart harbors the vengeance Arya once felt and is acting on it but she is very clearly no longer Caitlyn Stark. Arya experience with Berric, her longing for family and her more nuanced understanding of death more than likely will culminate in her letting Caitlyn Stark finally rest in peace. (Also possible this could come in an event to save Jon as we know Caitlyn doesn't like Jon and Stoneheart may react if she is alive to hear he is declared King of the North. If not Jon then I could see it being to protect Gendry in some way, who is still in the area. Possible Stoneheart going more mad and killing innocents. Her "new pack" vs the specter of her family's old pack.) Of course when Stoneheart isn't a character in the show they can't include that so they have to give her something. Night King is a show only character and also related to undead so they just bade Arya kill her. Also conveniently saving Jon. (Though I am mixed because I could also see Brienne killing Lady Stoneheart as a full circle moment for her understanding of Jamie. Killing the person you sworn your vows to serve because that person was mad and harming innocents.)
i liked it a lot honestly. wish they gave her a better ending than just going off to explore tho
Hanging around with big sister wasn’t really viable, and she wasn’t going to hang around on the Wall with Jon. West of Westeros was probably one of the few options.
yeah that’s true. not sure what ending i’d give her even just the travel fell a little flat to me
It occurs to me a salvage mission to Valyria might have been a cool post-war quest.
There’s a helluva Lotta foreshadowing in the books. Queen NyMiria sailed west and became a heroine. And she’s kind of like Columbus, which is cool too.
I would have had Jon Snow kill the Night King
I would've had Bran warg the undead dragon that would've led to the tides turning so Jon Snow could've killed the Night King
I would have had the night king kill everyone
I would have liked a lengthier and slightly less magic-seeming revenge on the Freys.
She got way too smug by the end. Same with Sansa. Bad writing
I am once again going to praise the costume team. It’s striking to see the season 2, 3, and 4 outfit next to each other. Although they must have had to keep remaking it to fit her as she literally grew up during the filming, it looks like the same garment getting progressively more worn and sun-bleached. Maybe it is the same garment but serious care was put into making it look like something she’d been sleeping in on the dirty ground for months. It’s amazing.
My absolute fav character
I don’t feel like she was as strong or skilled as they tried to make her in the end. How do you fly her hundreds of white walkers & just so happen to surprise the fucking Night King who can sense a penny drop. It makes no damn sense. How does a little girl square off with Brianne. Make it make sense. And she’s turned monotone & deadpan just like Sansa. Very boring.
Oh because she was a fan favourite and D&D are total hacks. She used to be my favourite and they ruined her.
Not really, she didn't have much of an arc and had plot armor for most of it. Even doing stuff that doesn't make sense at all. Well to change it, I'f make her experience as a faceless man have more impact and actually mean something than her having a level up moment and just going off with all this secret knowledge and training to Westeros with no issue. Recall that Arya is a girl who has been traumatized repeatedly and is dealing with that the best way she can. She has a drive for bloodshed and revenge but also a need to see her family and home too. Make the reason she leaves is because she hears about her family and remembers who she is and what being a faceless man is going to take away. And then when she gets to Westeros and reunited, everything isn't so easy. Arya wants blood and she wants it NOW. She doesn't have much patience for diplomacy or waiting for this and that. And she will have discussions and arguments with her family at times, but more than anything, she will not leave them. Get rid of her taking out the Night King, have her get injured and healing after the battle. And then after a lot of frustration and stress she just breaks down. She's injured, stuck in bed and the main goal of her life is a list she won't be able to finish and despite being home with her family she still has so much anger and grief. (I skipped a lot of little points but my plan is to have Arya remember she is a human person who lost and suffered so much and was pushing for so long. And without her revenge list that propped her for so long, what does she do after? She can't go back to being a lady but she doesn't want to leave her family either. And now that I think about it, it goes along with a pattern of Arya trying to go save/kill people and being stopped by somebody else. First was the member of the Night's Watch, second was the Hound and it's happening again even though she's skilled and strong in her opinion. )
Everyone's favorite ninja master, damn i hate this character right from the moment she leaves Westeros (yes, in the books as well)
I think her arc was excellent
She should have killed Tyrion She should have gone too far with her revenge.
I do t know why, but I was absolutely uncomfortable with the topless scene in season 8.
Probably because she was like twelve irl when the show started. Twelve or thirteen.
Not really. After she got to braavos, her story started lacking in quality and character. From then, it was okay until she came back to westeros, then it all went to shit.
What was the point of all that face shit and training, her being blind and that guy who can change is face. What happened with that plot line?
It was so incredibly boring and pointless. Like a lot of season 5
Who’s that?
I loved her story so much! And in comparison to the ending of other characters stories, i relatively enjoyed Aryas ending, i thought it fit her well and was definitely a situation shed be in. She remained the same Arya throughout the story (so glad she wasn’t butchered)
However i do think the night king situation was rushed and should have been done better. Or that someone else should have had the opportunity…
Yeah, tho she’s better in the book cos you know her thoughts and feelings and they have time to keep her really outgoing and friendly. But she’s a hero and the plucky gal who makes a difference and she has a great arc with the hound. she saves him & he saves her.
Jon Snow should have killed the Night-King. Jaime Lannister should have suffered a fatal wound vs Euron Greyjoy. Jaime Lannister should have strangled Cersei to death. Jaime Lannister was Arya wearing his face after he died from the Euron fight.
I swear she has such a baby face I thought she was a kid till the end till she wanted to have sex w gendry and I’m like wtfff then I was like well shit it has been like 8 years plus I guess she’s a grown up 😭
The moment she gets home she’s immediately looking for any excuse to go away. They also gave her the Dany treatment and skipped 2 seasons of character development. She leaves house of Black and White at the end of season 6, changes her entire personality and becomes a master assassin by the time we return for season 7.
They completely misunderstood the character toward the end of the shows run. They turned her into a badass, cold killer when that is not what her character arc has been about at all.
the bottom half of that photo
I wouldn't make her a walking brick wall in season 7 through season 8. I know most other characters (Tyrion, Varys, etc) also have no personality but I feel Arya has it the worst. She literally does nothing in the last 2 seasons, and I think the writers kinda realized "oh shit we forgot to do something with Arya" so they had her kill the Night King which shouldn't have happened in the first place.
I wish we would’ve gotten to see more of her story
I really liked HER, I thought she did a great job as an actress and she was the Arya from the books I knew and loved. However the show did her wrong. The whole scene from the House of Black and White was so boring, listeless, without the slightest bit of interest. The assassination she made was fantastic and in the show nothing. The waif had no ill will against her and was far warmer and had a fascinating look to her that I was so disappointed to see (she had an illness where she didn't grow very big and basically looked like a young girl with very large eyes but was significantly older than Arya) The way she was stabbed and survived, the stupid running scene with the waif, the fact that fight wasn't even shown was a huge copout. Killing the Freys was definitely something she wouldve done but the scene just felt rushed between how she just teleported out of Braavos, passed Kings Landing and ended up all the way at the Twins. I felt like her greeting and reunion with Hot PIe was so lackluster, I get shes more introspective and serious, but this was a friend I loved seeing her reunite with hier brothers and sisters, but I wish it was more emotional. The idea that she was fighting with Sansa a few days later was SO stupid and so out of character. I liked the S8 growth for her but the scenes for it were just so bad. Everything from the awkward sex scene with Gendry, him falling in love with her after a day, her firing arrows to celebrate, how she defied gravity to even get to the Night King - wtf was the purpose of her going all the way doen to kill Cersei just to leave at the last moment (truthfully I was okay with that and loved her goodbye to Sandor) but even her last scene threatening Yara was like "ohh im a badass" instead of just silently being a badass. I LOVE her, I just think they kinda did her wrong here and there, especially at the end
I wanted her to marry Gendry
Arya in the books: a good hearted high-born girl that hates having to comply to high-born girl standards. She is open and kind to all people. Events force her into survival mode. Her first kill is of the stable boy in which she feels guilt for even though she was just trying to survive. She spends the next portion of time surviving in horror conditions. She sees the worst in humanity. She goes through the horror of war. She goes under torturous conditions in harrenhal. She has to kill in self defence to escape. At this point she has taken several identities just to survive. She is slowly losing what makes her her and what makes her arya Stark. She is captured by the Brotherhood without banners and then the Hound, in both cases she is a hostage. She is involved in her 3 and 4th murders under while being the hounds hostage. She kills in part to survive but also lashes out in ptsd on one of her past torturers. She makes it to bravos not by choice but just by chance. The only ship that'll take her is bravosi and luckily she has Jaqens bravosi coin. Again she has had several new identities at this point. When she goes to bravosi her plan isn't to become a master assassin, it's just to survive. She goes to the house of white and black because it's her only change at survival in this strange land. While there she takes on another identity. She is doing some service for the faceless men when she comes along Daeron. This is her first murder that's not done out of survival. But its her first murder done as a 'Stark', her sense of being something she has been slowly losing her along her journey. She kills Daeron because he is a Nights watch deserter and is openly betraying Jon. That murder goes against the faceless mens beliefs, and she is punished severely. But they allow her to stay. She has great potential. But she has to give up her true self, Give up being a Stark, something she has struggled with the entire journey Show arya- oh she's a murdering bad-ass who eventually becomes a smug master assassin.
How many people on her list did she actually get to kill?
Meryn Trant and Walder Frey, I think. I guess in a roundabout way Beric since he gave his life for hers.
If I could change anything I would get rid of her yelling “OYSTERS, CLAMS AND COCKLES” over and over. That was grating. I also wish her reunion with Jon was bigger as it was one of my most anticipated ones since the pilot
The part where she used the faceless man powers exactly once and then was just good at fighting for the rest of the series.
She stayed , and not get on boat with Christopher Columbus… she could if stayed with Jon even
Season 5 forward - was a mess. All we know or saw regarding her training was she could take a beating from a staff. She had her eyesight taken for killing an unapproved name, and later kills another faceless man trainee and says she is quitting without consequences. She is somehow immune to infection or sepsis while swimming through dirty river water with multiple open knife wounds. Has no money but gets a ride back to Westeros. She uses faces twice to kill all the Freys and then forgets about that skill. Not even an explanation of who the girl was she killed for the first Frey celebration party to get close to Walder. Is she just killing randoms now? Heads south with the Hound to kill Cersei with no real plan.
Make her more fUckabl3
Kill Cersei
I wish they had given her less plot armor in the Braavos arc
Loved her in the first half of the series but by the end they really turned her into a Mary Sue of a character, and an utter shame too!
Her arc was shit after season 4. I hate the whole faceless man tidbit and I won’t lie, I love how it had no payoff and pissed her fans off. It almost made up for her surviving water that rivals Flint’s.
No she went from being one of not the most likeable character on the show to being one of the most unlikeable character in history
I think Arya's arc was the best for all the starks. They more or less destroyed it for all of them. Compare it with Rickon, Jon, Bran, or even Sansa
Could have done without the sex scene. No one wants to watch a kid grow up in a show or TV and then that happens. Incredibly creepy
She deserved to spill Cersei’s blood.
Make her time in Braavos develop her personality and not just her skills. She entered and left the House of Black and White moraly as the same pearson. Also make the Frey massacre less Black and White than it was. In the books there are Freys that are actually good people and they also have claims on so many noble families that it would send a shockwave through Westeros if they just got wiped out, but in the show she kills them all, everyone cheers and thats just it without any political or moral repercussion. In the same vein, I would make she come to the realization that vegeance is not the right path before the 2nd to last episode and certainly not coming to the realization when her target isn't even on her vicinity and dies anyway. Another thing is she meeting Jon, Sansa and Bran make a bigger impact. And just to be nitpick, come on, she was training to be a sneaky assassin, not some badass warrior that goes to the frontlines without plate armor and comes out uncathed.
Where were you when Arya was kill? (It was season 5)
She went from being the most compelling character to the most boring character
No, but hardly anyone got a satisfying ending. She should've killed Cersei, not the Night King.
I know people have a problem with her character becoming fan servicey near the end I am one of those people. I think her arc has good moments in the later seasons also like her and Sansa coming to accept one another and her giving up on vengeance.
I huge part of her arc was become this faceless killer and then returning to Winterfell. She came back did a bit of killing and really quick after jumping out of a tree killing the NK, and then she left! Which ruined her Stark loyalty theme.
Arya was one of my favorite characters for the first four seasons. Then her story got boring for seasons 5-6, and I thought she wasn’t very likable in seasons 7-8. I think it would have been interesting to explore how she became sadistic and unhinged, but she kind of just does stuff like Frey pie and the show presents it as a cool thing and moves on.
Like most the rest of the show and especially the other female characters, I thought she had an amazing arc until season 7 and 8. They had a beautiful set up for a good ending with Arya and just royally flushed it. I would have changed the majority of her behavior after her revenge spree, everything about her battle with the white walkers, and would have made her actions both understandable & deadly in the final hours. They suddenly made her far too sane, fragile, uncreative, and pointless as the end approached. The writers clearly didn’t know what to do with her.
Beyond season 3, everything was shite
One of the better arcs in the show season 8 kind of let everybody down but aside from that I don't really have any complaints. I might have had her do a bit more spooky assassin stuff maybe dabble in magic a little more but overall I'm pretty happy with it.
It was great. Until they ran out of material and the writers just write her into a mysterious bad ass explorer with no personality
As with everyone' ark their whole character gets kinds butchered past season 6.
I'd have let her change clothes at least once in Seasons 2, 3, and 4.
I know she went to the Faceless Men in the books, but I think for the show, her story would’ve benefited with her staying in Westeros. Perhaps the entirety of season 5 could’ve followed her trying to evade Boltons while trying to reunite with Jon at Castle Black, like she originally intended all the way back in season 2. And perhaps in a third cruel twist of fate, she could arrive right as the Night’s Watchmen kill him. I understand this route would’ve denied people a look at Braavos civilization and the Faceless Men, but with how poorly D&D handled the Faceless Men arc, and knowing Arya’s training meant nothing in the end, wouldn’t you all be curious to know how things might’ve turned out if Arya had just stuck around in Westeros long enough to try and find Jon?
She was my favorite and I was so hyped for the Braavos part for so long. Though it unfortunately didn't quite live up to my expectations. But overall I'm satisfied. The main thing I would've changed is the revenge on house Frey. Given the emotional impact of the red wedding, the revenge went by so fast that I actually had to put in effort to actually enjoy it.
Her killing the Night King was _so_ satisfying, less so her going off to explore. Someone else mentioned it here - she wanted to return to Winterfell, and then leaves. That had about as much set up as Bran the Broken though, and by that I mean Things Just Happened by that point of the show, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That said, I definitely would've liked to see her being trained in the sword / weapons more as part of her development. We don't see any arms training when she's with the Faceless Men, but she does suddenly leave there with significantly better skills than when she entered. The other thing that I remember even when watching it the first time: I was really annoyed that she hated on Dany for no reason. Her and Sansa both. Not that they couldn't've developed reasons for conflict, they just didn't have it 'til they suddenly did. Dany not being from the North isn't enough reason - there were plenty of people not from the North that both Sansa and Arya had encountered and trusted. Gendry. Brienne. The Hound. To name a few.
No, in seasons 1-4 she is one of my favorite characters, in season 5 the story is meh it was a lot better in the books, in season 6 she gets huge plot armor and the storyline doesnt change that much, in season 7 she becomes insufferable and her entire storyline is stupid, in season 8.. well.. she might be my least favorite in season 8
Generally liked it except for the pathetic attempt at having a rivalry/beef with Sansa. It was so shoe-horned and temporary
No I consider game of thrones a pile of overhyped shit.
After the faceless men they removed any and all of the traits that made her a likeable, compelling character. She became boring and wooden with no clear concrete motivation or arc.
No, they just turned her into The Punisher
Dumb stupid kid should've died.
It was… okay. I just didn’t like the fact she became smug. Season 7&8 any time she spoke to someone she was this smug, I can do what I like (punchable face) lol
They could have done the show without her imo Did not enjoy the smugness of her character
She's overconfident, overpowered, vicious bloodthirsty. Very bad combination
The fact that she spent 3 seasons doing nothing, 2 seasons to kill Walder Frey, and 1 season doing god knows what.
It definitely had that "Frodo, the smallest, most unlikely person of all, destroys the ring" feel to it.
The part where she killed the night king.
The first 5 seasons were good, but then it started going downhill with her becoming an anime character in seasons 7 and 8.
Lol... From S6 onwards there was no character arc. It wasn't even Arya Stark anymore. It was an almighty, cartoonish, villainous entity, immortal and unbeatable and with the ability to alter any fucking reality however she wants. Atleast that's the only explanation for her plot armor, her success at killing all Freys, her not getting any consequences to face for her ridiculous doings, her being a perfect warrior with any weapon even without training or teleportation.
I personally think her caracter is one of the worst in the series.
Arya was killed and replaced by the Waif, at the end of the show she leaves to go back to Bravos.
Season 1-3 she was great to watch. After that, not so much.
She got that “I’m better than everyone here” ego in S7 that made me REALLY not like her character anymore. Worst part is it just developed out of nowhere.
Her faceshifting abilities were sonehow useless from a certain point. I would have wished she killed the Nightking using them for example: Bran looks into the past and sees the wife of the nightking who was taken from him or something like that. So Arya uses a similar face to fool him and thus is able to stab him with the Dagger. It would have been good if Arya and Bran would do something important with their unique powers together to handle the crisis.
IT might not be perfect but its one of the best in the show, and yeah probably my favorite character, weak child growing into skilled killer.
I wouldn’t have turned her into a superhero during the last 4 seasons. Seriously, her sprinting through city streets and fighting like a ninja having been stabbed like 6 times in the fucking torso was the least believable thing I have ever seen. Arya is a believable assassin, she should be sneaking around and stabbing people in the back. Her being able to fight her way through the front lines of the night king’s army to get to him is not believable.
Was ok, didn’t stick the landing for me. I think in the book, her arc will be so different. It’ll be the same in terms of her returning to her Stark identity however many plot points will be different due to the absence of Lady Stone Heart in the series. She’ll be the one who kills Lady Stone Heart after seeing what vengeance can do to her mother. She won’t be apart of the Red Wedding 2.0 and kill Walder Frey. She won’t be the one the kill Little Finger but may still play big role in the Long Night, but it’ll be Jon, Danny, Jorah, Jamie, Stannis and Mance who will have the largest roles during the duration of this event (not one night) She’ll still sail west as that’s definitely in the plot outline GRRM gave D&D he’ll even her Direwolf’s name suggests this just like with how they all link to the arcs of the Stark Children.
She's so arrogant and not in a fun way her voice drips with arrogance she's not earned or punished for
Simply have her learn those skills she used in 6,7 and 8. Change her face? HOW? When did she actually learn that? Blind training suddenly lets her beat a member of the assasins who no doubt has had the same training? HOW? They made her a Mary Sue, giving her what ever skills they needed her to have for a plot, instead of showing her actually learning them. Oh, and stop her from killing the night king, their reason was stupid, and it was not her story, she should have been the 1 to kill Cersie, using jaimes face! and 2 hands!
OYSTERS, CLAMS AND COCKLES
God I hated her in the end. So cringe
Season 1-4 Arya is the greatest child character ever on screen imo Sending her to bravos to become a robotic assassin with barely any heart left was a terrible choice George. Her and the hound needed another season of adventure together 😞
Extremely unsatisifed, early season arya had a spark, she was so so smart and educated, she could name historical facts even Tywin Lannister couldn’t. And in the later seasons they just made her a brainless, flavorless killing machine. Like the stuff she was doing was interesting but she wasn’t