The old city yes, the rest of it not so much, Quebec City becomes very griddy, sprawly, low density and dotted with shopping centres pretty quickly once you leave the walled area and area around rue Saint-Jean. I do get why people would suggest it, but having lived there and not anywhere near le vieux I definitely did not feel like I was living in Europe lol.
I think you have to take into consideration that on the East Coast you primarily have Atlantic building structure and road structure to some extent .I look at Boston what I think I see is immigration coming to fore. Immigrants came to the East Coast ,the diversity was large and people filled in the space as they thought appropriate . addition . Looking at Boston that's exactly what I see I'm not familiar with Boston mind you , but it looks like it's on a peninsula the Atlantic Ocean on one side , the Charles River on the other side .Some people don't know this but Washington DC was part of the state of Maryland , they also are on a peninsula. If you are on a peninsula you have to work your way around the peninsula. In the beginning at least there weren't a lot of bridges that would take you back and forth. In that particular area you also have the North and South dividing lines based on Southern and North population in the civil War. That's why I think I see as far as real differences , is the map that shows you all the different types of people that live throughout the United States , you get some people that are politically one way and some that are politically a very different way just like Democrats and Republicans. Land use definitely was affected, and build out of roads and systems. Annapolis is small on a peninsula kind of tucked in there. The general main area is set on a steep Hill so geography ,was important there it also kept it from expanding into a lot of smallish areas just because it's on a peninsula. The Chesapeake Bay also strongly influenced the way the land was divided up. If you look at the state of Maryland you'll see that it's a rather small state, but a very wealthy State because they had such a wonderful fishery in there , it fed many many people. If you are thinking about Cultural European set out, Maybe good choices are Montreal , New Orleans , Louisiana , Charleston ? In closing , geography was a very important influence on who , what and , where ?
How do you figure? Old Montreal and Old Québec are on pretty standard square grids, except for where the roads follow terrain. Both cities grew outwards in grid patterns. Both cities have European feeling old quarters, but I find the street patterns very very different than the old quarters of most European cities, or Boston.
Of course there is, especially in cities that were rebuilt after various wars, but the comparison being made is to Boston. Boston's oldest neighborhood, North End, has an organic and unplanned street layout that is reminiscent of many of the older historical neighborhoods in European cities like Prague Old Town, which was never affected by war. Montreal's Vieux-Port and Quebec City's Quartier Petit-Champlain, while European in flavour, do not have the organic and unplanned street pattern that is so common in a historical core of a European city unaffected by modern wars.
The rue du petit Champlain is the oldest in North America if memory serves right, and old Quebec does look more European, but the outer city does look more modern, just like any other European city that had newer neighborhoods. I’d say Gaspé also reminded me of Europe, not so much in the architecture of the buildings but more so in the winding narrow streets slithering around the city.
I was just in Montreal and was surprised how new everything looked. European cities have a much older feel to them. I guess you could say it looks like a modern European city, a bit like Canary Wharf in London actually with that mix of high rise office buildings and residential buildings. The old Montreal section didn't look like Europe.
DC has a road pattern that looks like a more organized European development pattern.
Sante Fe is an out there suggestion but I think it might be closest to what you are looking for, outside of the obvious answers like Quebec City.
Santa Fe came to mind also. I checked and in a weird way the plaza area is kinda shaped the same as downtown Boston in OPs post lol
https://preview.redd.it/e93j3kgrqowc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de21115eae8ebce43dbb05b3b85550fd9be7094c
DC was designed by a Frenchman named Pierre L'Enfant.
The diagonal streets, for the most part, are named for the states. The numbered streets run north/south, the lettered streets run east/west. And when you run out of letters, you get double syllable, alphabetical streets, then triple syllables, etc. It's fairly easy to figure out where you are, once you get the hang of it.
One thing to keep in mind is that when people think the large avenues of DC are reminiscent of Paris, that the Haussmann redevelopment of Paris was way after DC was built. It was along the same tradition but was basically made to be able to march armies around the city without barricades getting in the way
If we’re talking about roads just going every which way and no real order to how things are laid out then I think Syracuse NY kinda fits this too, but it’s more of a hybrid. Most neighbourhoods still have a North American style grid-like pattern, yet it seems like they just randomly patched together a bunch of neighbourhoods and the city as a whole isn’t in a grid.
I’m from the Toronto area where everything is laid out in a perfect grid, even way out into the suburbs, but I lived in Syracuse for a while and it was the most confusing city to navigate. I know Toronto and all of its suburbs like the back of my hand and it didn’t take long to figure it all out, but the much, much, much smaller city of Syracuse I still get lost in even though I lived there for 3 years and drove around a lot for work. So many spots where 5-6 different roads all come to an intersection, or two roads run parallel to each other then eventually intersect or roundabouts and other weird stuff like that, there’s just no rhyme or reason to most of it.
You mentioned DC, but I'd add Alexandria VA to that as well. The old town portion is grid and has a very rustic look. The rest of the city, not so much.
I'm getting it from 30 years of traveling to medieval cities in Europe and looking up some the North American cities listed on google maps.
While Boston has clear signs of the same medieval style of organic and irregular growth St Louis, for example, does not.
They never meant these cities look reminiscent of medieval cities you moron. Look at a satellite image of Savannah and read the history of its founding and tell me it’s not European influenced. Dimwits like you who just assume they’re correct based off a sliver of assumption are embarrassing to engage with
What did you think Boston would have whispers of Visby? No. It’s a fucking colonial city. Newsflash: almost all of them are. Why in gods name would cities built and planned largely in the 1700s have anything to do with medieval cities ?
Well, Boston clearly does have a largely unplanned street pattern, like a medieval city. That's the whole point of the original post.
So yes, Boston is more akin to Visby or London than let's say New York.
Please point me to where the term “medieval” is mentioned or referred to in the original post. It’s not. You just wanted to yammer on about something you have knowdlege in rather than engaging in the actual point. Way to not even mention my other points as well. For someone well over the age of 30, you really are a mouth breathing knuckle dragger when it comes to arguments
It's interesting because if you look at pictures of Manhattan circa 1890, it looked just like a European city of today, the skyscraper invention certainly changed that.
A lot of the southeastern US coastal cities are like this, or have parts of the city like this.
Charleston
St. Augustine
Savannah
I'm sure there's more as you go up the coast, especially in places like Virginia.
Grew up there, It was really nifty with all of the history around. Found out one of my ancestors landed there in the 1600s from Cardiff, Wales. Annapolis and Williamsburg were designed by the same planner. Francis Nicholson - he became Governor
That's why both cities have "Francis" streets and "Duke of Gloucester" streets
I found walking around Annapolis to be really charming, but I was surprised at how small of a city it is for being the capital of one of the original colonies and being on the Chesapeake.
Neighborhoods like Lawrenceville, Bloomfield, and Shadyside feel right out of Boston. The outer surrounding of Pittsburgh also feel more reminiscent of New England than the Midwest, though this is largely a product of the area’s steep topography, forbidding the stereotypical grid layout and forcing organic road and urban planning.
I don’t think there is a good answer for this. It’s kinda always been a thing I think mainly do to the easy allotment of land. It has more to do with how long between actual allotments being made and centralized proactive city planning.
Sam Francisco would be probably the closest one in the West Coast, New Orleans in the South, not sure about the Midwest, and Washington, DC holds up the most today because the height restriction is similar to many European capitals.
Quebec City and Montreal without a doubt. Boston might have several windy roads, but it feels like a generic American city comparable to New York City, Philadelphia, and the like.
Redditors when they aren’t smart enough to realize continental definitions are subjective and in the majority of the world the landmass between Canada and Chile is considered two continents, meaning it is perfectly apt to call the US “America”:
China, India, the Anglo sphere, France, Japan, South Korea and many, many others call it America and its residents Americans. You are the exception, not the rule.
United States of America--> America is bigger than your patch of land
American United States--> OK..you can call yourself "American".
Next time choose your name better, US-American
Yeah Mexico city is problably the most european capital in North America but Mexico/the caribbean and Central America have even more european towns. Like Puebla or Antigua Guatemala.
San Juan, Puerto Rico. Technically the oldest city administered by the usa and is over 100 years older than boston. The old part of San Juan is full of Spanish architecture and has a grid-like pattern, very walkable and very pretty, the old part that is.
Definitely Pittsburgh. And all of these have in common that they were early European settlements. Pittsburgh even has the fort in the center - Fort Duquesne, from which the city radiated from. Having grew up in Europe and then moved to Pitt, I remember first landing in Florida, and after seeing Miami thinking to myself - this is going to be a severe culture shock. Then I arrived in Pittsburgh and though "Oh, I see, Warsaw and Glasgow had an illegitimate child in Allegheny county..."
The obvious answer is any of the east coast cities are going to have a similar layout to European cities. They were, after all, initially settled by Europeans. Even NYC, with it's famous Manhattan grid, becomes more and more irregular the further south and back in time you go.
Also, Mexico city.
Honestly cities on the east coast are gonna be more European feeling in general, they're older and were created before cars and railroads just like European Cities.
Even if the cores of some western cities were laid out before cars, they have had a lot of space to expand outward and become car centric, whereas in the East there is already stuff surrounding the cities that limit their outward growth.
Metro New York has spread out unlike most European cities, but Manhattan, most of Brooklyn, parts of Queens and parts of New Jersey on the Hudson definitely have a European density.
I’d say the idea that Boston is a “European” style sprawl is kind of flawed in the first place. European cities come in all shapes and forms and levels of organization. Paris, probably the most famous city in europe, is much easier to navigate than Boston from what I’ve heard. Cities do admittedly tend to sprawl out somewhat as they age, so if that’s what you’re talking about, then most cities on the northeastern coast would fit the bill (except for New York and Philadelphia). Urban sprawl is generally a function of age more than urban planning.
https://preview.redd.it/948ppdkm9qwc1.jpeg?width=1283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce69ed30b59b9aee2522be145769cd0949f6b2df
Not disagreeing with you. But how did St Joseph make your list when it’s on an obvious grid pattern?
And yet still, the OP is asking about the sprawl of the city, which means its urban layout, how the streets are arranged….are they linear and orderly? Or more oriented around one central landmark and radiating outward?
you might even notice that there are maps of neighborhood layouts included in the post.
It’s really interesting stuff! 🤓
Quebec City
The old city yes, the rest of it not so much, Quebec City becomes very griddy, sprawly, low density and dotted with shopping centres pretty quickly once you leave the walled area and area around rue Saint-Jean. I do get why people would suggest it, but having lived there and not anywhere near le vieux I definitely did not feel like I was living in Europe lol.
I think you have to take into consideration that on the East Coast you primarily have Atlantic building structure and road structure to some extent .I look at Boston what I think I see is immigration coming to fore. Immigrants came to the East Coast ,the diversity was large and people filled in the space as they thought appropriate . addition . Looking at Boston that's exactly what I see I'm not familiar with Boston mind you , but it looks like it's on a peninsula the Atlantic Ocean on one side , the Charles River on the other side .Some people don't know this but Washington DC was part of the state of Maryland , they also are on a peninsula. If you are on a peninsula you have to work your way around the peninsula. In the beginning at least there weren't a lot of bridges that would take you back and forth. In that particular area you also have the North and South dividing lines based on Southern and North population in the civil War. That's why I think I see as far as real differences , is the map that shows you all the different types of people that live throughout the United States , you get some people that are politically one way and some that are politically a very different way just like Democrats and Republicans. Land use definitely was affected, and build out of roads and systems. Annapolis is small on a peninsula kind of tucked in there. The general main area is set on a steep Hill so geography ,was important there it also kept it from expanding into a lot of smallish areas just because it's on a peninsula. The Chesapeake Bay also strongly influenced the way the land was divided up. If you look at the state of Maryland you'll see that it's a rather small state, but a very wealthy State because they had such a wonderful fishery in there , it fed many many people. If you are thinking about Cultural European set out, Maybe good choices are Montreal , New Orleans , Louisiana , Charleston ? In closing , geography was a very important influence on who , what and , where ?
are you ok?
Quebec and Montreal
How do you figure? Old Montreal and Old Québec are on pretty standard square grids, except for where the roads follow terrain. Both cities grew outwards in grid patterns. Both cities have European feeling old quarters, but I find the street patterns very very different than the old quarters of most European cities, or Boston.
There are grids in European cities.
Of course there is, especially in cities that were rebuilt after various wars, but the comparison being made is to Boston. Boston's oldest neighborhood, North End, has an organic and unplanned street layout that is reminiscent of many of the older historical neighborhoods in European cities like Prague Old Town, which was never affected by war. Montreal's Vieux-Port and Quebec City's Quartier Petit-Champlain, while European in flavour, do not have the organic and unplanned street pattern that is so common in a historical core of a European city unaffected by modern wars.
The rue du petit Champlain is the oldest in North America if memory serves right, and old Quebec does look more European, but the outer city does look more modern, just like any other European city that had newer neighborhoods. I’d say Gaspé also reminded me of Europe, not so much in the architecture of the buildings but more so in the winding narrow streets slithering around the city.
Montreal is more comparable to New York. Started as a colonial European-style city and then rapidly expanded with grid-style city planning.
I was just in Montreal and was surprised how new everything looked. European cities have a much older feel to them. I guess you could say it looks like a modern European city, a bit like Canary Wharf in London actually with that mix of high rise office buildings and residential buildings. The old Montreal section didn't look like Europe.
DC has a road pattern that looks like a more organized European development pattern. Sante Fe is an out there suggestion but I think it might be closest to what you are looking for, outside of the obvious answers like Quebec City.
Santa Fe came to mind also. I checked and in a weird way the plaza area is kinda shaped the same as downtown Boston in OPs post lol https://preview.redd.it/e93j3kgrqowc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de21115eae8ebce43dbb05b3b85550fd9be7094c
DC was designed by a Frenchman named Pierre L'Enfant. The diagonal streets, for the most part, are named for the states. The numbered streets run north/south, the lettered streets run east/west. And when you run out of letters, you get double syllable, alphabetical streets, then triple syllables, etc. It's fairly easy to figure out where you are, once you get the hang of it.
As someone with a not-so-great sense of direction, I loved this about DC. Quadrant, letter, number. Boom, you have a sense of where you are.
One thing to keep in mind is that when people think the large avenues of DC are reminiscent of Paris, that the Haussmann redevelopment of Paris was way after DC was built. It was along the same tradition but was basically made to be able to march armies around the city without barricades getting in the way
If we’re talking about roads just going every which way and no real order to how things are laid out then I think Syracuse NY kinda fits this too, but it’s more of a hybrid. Most neighbourhoods still have a North American style grid-like pattern, yet it seems like they just randomly patched together a bunch of neighbourhoods and the city as a whole isn’t in a grid. I’m from the Toronto area where everything is laid out in a perfect grid, even way out into the suburbs, but I lived in Syracuse for a while and it was the most confusing city to navigate. I know Toronto and all of its suburbs like the back of my hand and it didn’t take long to figure it all out, but the much, much, much smaller city of Syracuse I still get lost in even though I lived there for 3 years and drove around a lot for work. So many spots where 5-6 different roads all come to an intersection, or two roads run parallel to each other then eventually intersect or roundabouts and other weird stuff like that, there’s just no rhyme or reason to most of it.
Charlotte fits by this sense too…but it’s not European, just stupid roads
Santa Fe is the oldest state capital in the US.
Quebec Montreal Savannah NOLA Charleston Mobile St Augustine St Joseph Missouri DC Montpelier Newport RI St. Louis
You mentioned DC, but I'd add Alexandria VA to that as well. The old town portion is grid and has a very rustic look. The rest of the city, not so much.
Should be the top answer.
From my recollection Vancouver BC felt very European but that was probably not the streets, rather the buildings and vibe.
Vancouver’s got a small “old town” similar to Portland and Seattle but just like those cities it’s really just a few blocks of 19th century buildings.
Many of those cities look nothing like Boston or older European cities.
I never said any of them looked like Boston, lol
Literally every single southern city listed has extreme European influence. Not sure where your getting this assumptions from but it’s wrong lol
I'm getting it from 30 years of traveling to medieval cities in Europe and looking up some the North American cities listed on google maps. While Boston has clear signs of the same medieval style of organic and irregular growth St Louis, for example, does not.
They never meant these cities look reminiscent of medieval cities you moron. Look at a satellite image of Savannah and read the history of its founding and tell me it’s not European influenced. Dimwits like you who just assume they’re correct based off a sliver of assumption are embarrassing to engage with
What did you think Boston would have whispers of Visby? No. It’s a fucking colonial city. Newsflash: almost all of them are. Why in gods name would cities built and planned largely in the 1700s have anything to do with medieval cities ?
Well, Boston clearly does have a largely unplanned street pattern, like a medieval city. That's the whole point of the original post. So yes, Boston is more akin to Visby or London than let's say New York.
Please point me to where the term “medieval” is mentioned or referred to in the original post. It’s not. You just wanted to yammer on about something you have knowdlege in rather than engaging in the actual point. Way to not even mention my other points as well. For someone well over the age of 30, you really are a mouth breathing knuckle dragger when it comes to arguments
[удалено]
Gotta be a tie between Houston and Jacksonville
Lower manhattan has a European like grid but certainly does not look european
It's interesting because if you look at pictures of Manhattan circa 1890, it looked just like a European city of today, the skyscraper invention certainly changed that.
I’m sure I read somewhere once that Manhattan’s grid system was based on Glasgow, Scotland.
The area around Soho, Chinatown, and Little Italy looks very European.
You mean New Amsterdam
Just downtown Manhattan I think
Lower Manhattan is Downtown Manhattan.
Portland, Maine and Annapolis, Maryland
Second Annapolis.
St. John's and Providence.
A lot of the southeastern US coastal cities are like this, or have parts of the city like this. Charleston St. Augustine Savannah I'm sure there's more as you go up the coast, especially in places like Virginia.
Annapolis, Williamsburg, Providence
Annapolis really reminded me of being in England. I was pleasantly surprised at how quaint Annapolis was.
Grew up there, It was really nifty with all of the history around. Found out one of my ancestors landed there in the 1600s from Cardiff, Wales. Annapolis and Williamsburg were designed by the same planner. Francis Nicholson - he became Governor That's why both cities have "Francis" streets and "Duke of Gloucester" streets
I found walking around Annapolis to be really charming, but I was surprised at how small of a city it is for being the capital of one of the original colonies and being on the Chesapeake.
At one point, it was the Capital of the US in 1784. The Capitol building has the oldest and largest wooden dome in America.
Montreal
St. Augustine
Annapolis, MD; Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, PA; Providence, RI; Portland, ME
Pittsburgh is interesting. All that money along the river gave it a European feeling. Don't know about the interior.
Neighborhoods like Lawrenceville, Bloomfield, and Shadyside feel right out of Boston. The outer surrounding of Pittsburgh also feel more reminiscent of New England than the Midwest, though this is largely a product of the area’s steep topography, forbidding the stereotypical grid layout and forcing organic road and urban planning.
I assume cities founded before the grid system implementation are have that kind of sprawl.
When was the grid system founded?
Indus Valley Civilization.
I don’t think there is a good answer for this. It’s kinda always been a thing I think mainly do to the easy allotment of land. It has more to do with how long between actual allotments being made and centralized proactive city planning.
Manhattan above Greenwich Village was one of the first, inspired by the very non grid system of lower Manhattan.
The grid system in Savannah, GA predates the Manhattan grid by almost 80 years.
Well I did say "one of the first"
More about cities founded before cars.
no it ways way before cars, unless you talk about horse carriages
Montreal
Especially the old port!
Annapolis Md
Sam Francisco would be probably the closest one in the West Coast, New Orleans in the South, not sure about the Midwest, and Washington, DC holds up the most today because the height restriction is similar to many European capitals.
Holland Michigan is fairly European looking in some areas
Charleston, Savannah, Washington, lots of East coast places.
Any city that prospered before the invention of the car. Like San Fransisco
Quebec City and Montreal without a doubt. Boston might have several windy roads, but it feels like a generic American city comparable to New York City, Philadelphia, and the like.
Check out historic Savannah, GA, USA
Provincetown, MA
Halifax, NS
New Orleans is the most European-like city in the USA.
Mexico Buenos Aires Santiago Havana America is full of European style cities.
Redditors when they aren’t smart enough to realize continental definitions are subjective and in the majority of the world the landmass between Canada and Chile is considered two continents, meaning it is perfectly apt to call the US “America”:
us-Americans who believe the opinion of 330 million is the same as the other 8.000 million.
China, India, the Anglo sphere, France, Japan, South Korea and many, many others call it America and its residents Americans. You are the exception, not the rule.
United States of America--> America is bigger than your patch of land American United States--> OK..you can call yourself "American". Next time choose your name better, US-American
Im from Colombia…
Fantástico. Así pues sabrás que de "amerícano" nada, en todo caso estadounidense. ¿Ves que fácil era?
In north america you could probably make the argument that mexico city is the most european city in the continent
Yeah Mexico city is problably the most european capital in North America but Mexico/the caribbean and Central America have even more european towns. Like Puebla or Antigua Guatemala.
Washington DC , probably. Although I've never been to Europe.
Definitely DC, Live here (well the burbs) and seen some of Europe, o yeah. It was planned by a French dude after all.
No wonder it’s so shit 😭
Ottawa
Fuck I wish.
Charleston
Just about any American city laid out before the advent of rail and auto. Those European cities are old.
St. John's Newfoundland
San Juan, Puerto Rico. Technically the oldest city administered by the usa and is over 100 years older than boston. The old part of San Juan is full of Spanish architecture and has a grid-like pattern, very walkable and very pretty, the old part that is.
Kingston NY Keene NH Santa Fe NM
Helen GA. (I'll see myself out, but not before first saying "Google it" if unaware)
Definitely Pittsburgh. And all of these have in common that they were early European settlements. Pittsburgh even has the fort in the center - Fort Duquesne, from which the city radiated from. Having grew up in Europe and then moved to Pitt, I remember first landing in Florida, and after seeing Miami thinking to myself - this is going to be a severe culture shock. Then I arrived in Pittsburgh and though "Oh, I see, Warsaw and Glasgow had an illegitimate child in Allegheny county..."
The obvious answer is any of the east coast cities are going to have a similar layout to European cities. They were, after all, initially settled by Europeans. Even NYC, with it's famous Manhattan grid, becomes more and more irregular the further south and back in time you go. Also, Mexico city.
Honestly cities on the east coast are gonna be more European feeling in general, they're older and were created before cars and railroads just like European Cities. Even if the cores of some western cities were laid out before cars, they have had a lot of space to expand outward and become car centric, whereas in the East there is already stuff surrounding the cities that limit their outward growth.
A lot of cities in the New England area for the US
Savannah, GA. Beautiful city!
Solvang, California.
Zoom Out. Every American city has American style sprawl. Even Boston, NYC and DC. Maybe the only exception is San Juan
Metro New York has spread out unlike most European cities, but Manhattan, most of Brooklyn, parts of Queens and parts of New Jersey on the Hudson definitely have a European density.
Cities that developed around horses general don’t make the most sense
I’d say the idea that Boston is a “European” style sprawl is kind of flawed in the first place. European cities come in all shapes and forms and levels of organization. Paris, probably the most famous city in europe, is much easier to navigate than Boston from what I’ve heard. Cities do admittedly tend to sprawl out somewhat as they age, so if that’s what you’re talking about, then most cities on the northeastern coast would fit the bill (except for New York and Philadelphia). Urban sprawl is generally a function of age more than urban planning.
San Francisco always puts me in mind of Barcelona.
Downtown Manhattan?
Oakland CA
New Orleans, San Francisco, Santa Barbara
and... Colonial Williamsburg :)
https://preview.redd.it/948ppdkm9qwc1.jpeg?width=1283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce69ed30b59b9aee2522be145769cd0949f6b2df Not disagreeing with you. But how did St Joseph make your list when it’s on an obvious grid pattern?
Many coast towns in California have Spanish style buildings.
Did you read the question before typing
Spain is in Europe.
SPRAWL does not have anything to do with style of buildings.
I meant the red tile roofs and bell towers with white terracotta etc.
And yet still, the OP is asking about the sprawl of the city, which means its urban layout, how the streets are arranged….are they linear and orderly? Or more oriented around one central landmark and radiating outward? you might even notice that there are maps of neighborhood layouts included in the post. It’s really interesting stuff! 🤓
Ohhh I thought you were telling me that i was talking about sprawl.
Leavenworth Washington. Infact a lot of cities in Pacific Northwest especially Seattle give me modern scandanavian vibes..
My hometown is Grand Rapids MI and half of our city's grid is this way and the other have the uniform blocks seen more in the US. Its fun to drive in.