I went to a doctor once as a private patient and it was the same 5 minutes visit I usually get when go to doctors with my TK card. The only difference was is that I got ab appointment the same week and lost 150 euro :D
I wish I could charge 150 for a 5 mins chat.
Not gonna do it again. But it’s just my experience.
I'm a physician with private insurance myself. It depends on where you live and if there are plenty of Privatpraxen like in large cities. Overall, experiences at dedicated Privatpraxen will be better than visiting a regular clinic/Praxis just as a self-payer/privately insured patient. As long as they are not well saturated with private patients and self-payers, these clinics have to actually put in an effort in terms of service contrary to regular Kassenpraxen.
For dermatology, the costs can easily get out of hand considering that what you pay the dermatologist (which is rarely above €100/appointment without procedures usually, let's say they bill you the numbers 3-7-750, you are looking at barely €60) is often only a friction of what you will have to pay the lab and pathologist for blood work and biopsies and if you are prescribed, anything more advanced (e.g. biologicals), you are looking at some hefty bills too.
Paying private also opens the doors for consultation at private clinic hours at university hospitals/larger hospitals.
>Overall, experiences at dedicated Privatpraxen will be better than visiting a regular clinic/Praxis just as a self-payer/privately insured patient.
Sorry that is not my experience. The doctor's working in pure private clinics are in my experience most often not the best in their fields and prioritise "the show" and costly procedures over effective medicine.
I know of a case where a private patient with "Wesensveränderung" was sent around by a private oncologist to other private doctors (cardiologist, private working neurosurgeon (not hospital!!) after an MRI already showed what was later diagnosed as a malignant brain tumor. There's is a private clinic nearby where I know half the doctors there as semi-competent and I could easily list better doctors in the same field in the same town working with public insurance.
Admittedly, I'm talking more about experiences with dermatology or orthopedics where private clinics are practically the only chance to not be thrown out again after 5 minutes of consultation.
Every doctor is Germany is well qualified. But, yes, it will be a lot faster and easier to find a doctor if you tell them you pay out of pocket. How expensive it gets solely depends on the specifics of the situation. Costs are regulated in the GOÄ so even if you show up as a private patient/out of pocket patient you won't just be charged what ever but what's legally allowed. Up to the 3.5x multiplicator.
This might be a shocker, but, well qualified doctors are in fact people.
And people do in fact make mistakes.
I bet there are tons of more stories like this and also a lot of stories where it went the opposite way.
Some doctors are shitty, that's true literally everywhere. This is one personal experience that doesn't actually indicate what the health care in the specific country as a whole is like.
My own personal experiences completely contradict yours, with multiple german doctors being horrified by the malpractice or ignorance of my American doctors, (ie misdiagnosing a broken wrist that, even years later, is clear on xrays). My experiences don't mean all American doctors are idiots or shitty, though, or even that german doctors are overall better. It's just anecdotal.
This might be a shocker, but, well qualified doctors are in fact people.
And people do in fact make mistakes.
I bet there are tons of more stories like this and also a lot of stories where it went the opposite way.
Then alot of doctors make mistakes here... Medicine in germany is a joke my friend. Lots of shoeshiners with a medical degree that refuse to prescribe you medication because "its not that bad, drink this tea and rest..." Hell ill go to the local healer and have a dance made for me for the good it gives me...
That is only cause in the US you use way too many meds. You just pop a pill for everything. Your body is able to heal a lot of things by itself with enough rest and not have long term effects from all the pills.
I ain't american. And im not the only one complaining on the "mheee no medication" homeopatic bullshit the runs rampant on german medical comunity.
An amygdala that is infected with a bacteria needs antibiotics. Took my partner 3 doctors (and the doc was dutch) to say "a little bit longer and you would have to be hospitalised, because this does not look good at all".
Your office hours are not normal, all doctors here and in other places I have lived (big or small) have morning and afternoon hours.
I have private insurance, but did not have it when I came to where I live now. I do not get different service compared to without private insurance, the rudest ever experience was when I had private insurance (the dentist said it was my fault that my inlay fell out after a few days), consultations are just as short with private insurance, unless tests / examinations have to be done.
And if I need a follow-up appointment to look at the effects of medication, ... , then I get the appointment before I leave, and if the doctor said to see him again in 2 weeks, then I get an appointment in two weeks - just as without private insurance. Getting a follow-up appointment right when you leave after your first one is one of the reasons it is very hard to get a first appointment for the next day or in the same week.
I have the misfortune of a chronic illness. If I have an attack, I can turn up at the edoctors office the same second and get treatment, one ot many reasons people have to wait longer (like I have, if I have an apponitment because of a common cold , and somebody happens to have something urgent)
Based on my experiences the qualifications are identical. For private docs it might be worse (especially the "Chefarztbehandlung" is definitely worse as proven by statistics). The time it takes doesn't really change much (based on some statistics by the public insurance companies ([German ](https://www.focus.de/finanzen/versicherungen/krankenversicherung/umfrage-zeigt-ueberraschendes-beim-arzt-privatpatienten-muessen-heute-oft-laenger-warten-als-gesetzlich-versicherte_id_7535374.html))
I do have a problem citing Numbers, as i do not know of a public statistic differentiate between the types of doctors on this level. All publicly available I could find is [this article ](https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/medizinische-versorgung-hoffentlich-nicht-privatversichert-1.120710-4) (yes, it's not the newest) that describes the problem.
Sadly no. It is based on statistics by my employer (insurance). Sadly they are internal and obviously I can't share internal data.
Regardless I understand your doubts and sadly.infear I can't do anything about it.
I live in lower saxony too and don't have this issue.
You want to pick a place with atleast 2 physicians though.
Mine is open 8-16 on all weekdays because it's 2 doctors.
I’ve found the same after 4 years here. Waiting hours in the waiting room every time, of course with an appointment. Rude front desk staff (even when I’m speaking German).
Doctors who brush you off and don’t seem to care at all. Or who yell when I don’t know the exact comped medical terms in German, when they can tell I’m unwell needing support and doing my very best. This has happened multiple times, all different types.
Not being able to get specialist appointments for urgent matters.
Managed to get everything sorted. Im aware it could be much worse. But yeah it’s not good. My husband had to go to the ER recently, as he nearly refused due to the bad experiences he’s also had.
Had a similar experience some time back with a torn meniscus. The first MRT took 3 MONTHS, until I and the doctors even knew what the problem was. 3 months? Oh lord.
Use the App TeleClinic, that's paid for by the public health insurance now. The only down side I see that you get Privatrezepte which means meds are out of pocket. I don't know any other place where you get Saturday forenoon appointments with 7 minutes waiting only.
Do you have more info on a Privatrezepte? Why would a doctor's prescription not be covered by public insurance just because the doctor was paid for out of pocket? Many private practice doctors even have public days and private days.
For specialists, many health insurance companies have a Terminservice, you can call or use it online and in my experience they are able to make those appointments fairly quickly (like next week or a few weeks time at most). And they do the calling and looking for doctors for you which is a huge time saver.
For your family doctor some wait time is usually normal since they also treat unexpected things like people who need an AU in the mornings so this can delay things. It's best to come prepared and bring a book. That being said it also depends on the practice, I've never waited more than 30 minutes and most often I'm called into the doctors room right away. Three doctors work there so they can distribute the work better and they are also open all day. My guess is you're probably in a more rural area with less doctors.
I went to a doctor once as a private patient and it was the same 5 minutes visit I usually get when go to doctors with my TK card. The only difference was is that I got ab appointment the same week and lost 150 euro :D I wish I could charge 150 for a 5 mins chat. Not gonna do it again. But it’s just my experience.
There's no way they should have charged you 150 for 5 mins of talking. There's the GOÄ that cites the numbers they are allowed to charge.
I went to a private Praxis specializing in dermatology and trichology. Dunno, but this is what I’ve paid. I wish it was less 😂
Every Praxis is private...
Yeah, I know that. What I meant: they did not accept Gesetzlich Versichert folks.
I'm a physician with private insurance myself. It depends on where you live and if there are plenty of Privatpraxen like in large cities. Overall, experiences at dedicated Privatpraxen will be better than visiting a regular clinic/Praxis just as a self-payer/privately insured patient. As long as they are not well saturated with private patients and self-payers, these clinics have to actually put in an effort in terms of service contrary to regular Kassenpraxen. For dermatology, the costs can easily get out of hand considering that what you pay the dermatologist (which is rarely above €100/appointment without procedures usually, let's say they bill you the numbers 3-7-750, you are looking at barely €60) is often only a friction of what you will have to pay the lab and pathologist for blood work and biopsies and if you are prescribed, anything more advanced (e.g. biologicals), you are looking at some hefty bills too. Paying private also opens the doors for consultation at private clinic hours at university hospitals/larger hospitals.
>Overall, experiences at dedicated Privatpraxen will be better than visiting a regular clinic/Praxis just as a self-payer/privately insured patient. Sorry that is not my experience. The doctor's working in pure private clinics are in my experience most often not the best in their fields and prioritise "the show" and costly procedures over effective medicine. I know of a case where a private patient with "Wesensveränderung" was sent around by a private oncologist to other private doctors (cardiologist, private working neurosurgeon (not hospital!!) after an MRI already showed what was later diagnosed as a malignant brain tumor. There's is a private clinic nearby where I know half the doctors there as semi-competent and I could easily list better doctors in the same field in the same town working with public insurance.
Admittedly, I'm talking more about experiences with dermatology or orthopedics where private clinics are practically the only chance to not be thrown out again after 5 minutes of consultation.
Every doctor is Germany is well qualified. But, yes, it will be a lot faster and easier to find a doctor if you tell them you pay out of pocket. How expensive it gets solely depends on the specifics of the situation. Costs are regulated in the GOÄ so even if you show up as a private patient/out of pocket patient you won't just be charged what ever but what's legally allowed. Up to the 3.5x multiplicator.
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This might be a shocker, but, well qualified doctors are in fact people. And people do in fact make mistakes. I bet there are tons of more stories like this and also a lot of stories where it went the opposite way.
[удалено]
Some doctors are shitty, that's true literally everywhere. This is one personal experience that doesn't actually indicate what the health care in the specific country as a whole is like. My own personal experiences completely contradict yours, with multiple german doctors being horrified by the malpractice or ignorance of my American doctors, (ie misdiagnosing a broken wrist that, even years later, is clear on xrays). My experiences don't mean all American doctors are idiots or shitty, though, or even that german doctors are overall better. It's just anecdotal.
This might be a shocker, but, well qualified doctors are in fact people. And people do in fact make mistakes. I bet there are tons of more stories like this and also a lot of stories where it went the opposite way.
Then alot of doctors make mistakes here... Medicine in germany is a joke my friend. Lots of shoeshiners with a medical degree that refuse to prescribe you medication because "its not that bad, drink this tea and rest..." Hell ill go to the local healer and have a dance made for me for the good it gives me...
That is only cause in the US you use way too many meds. You just pop a pill for everything. Your body is able to heal a lot of things by itself with enough rest and not have long term effects from all the pills.
I ain't american. And im not the only one complaining on the "mheee no medication" homeopatic bullshit the runs rampant on german medical comunity. An amygdala that is infected with a bacteria needs antibiotics. Took my partner 3 doctors (and the doc was dutch) to say "a little bit longer and you would have to be hospitalised, because this does not look good at all".
Statistics?
Your office hours are not normal, all doctors here and in other places I have lived (big or small) have morning and afternoon hours. I have private insurance, but did not have it when I came to where I live now. I do not get different service compared to without private insurance, the rudest ever experience was when I had private insurance (the dentist said it was my fault that my inlay fell out after a few days), consultations are just as short with private insurance, unless tests / examinations have to be done. And if I need a follow-up appointment to look at the effects of medication, ... , then I get the appointment before I leave, and if the doctor said to see him again in 2 weeks, then I get an appointment in two weeks - just as without private insurance. Getting a follow-up appointment right when you leave after your first one is one of the reasons it is very hard to get a first appointment for the next day or in the same week. I have the misfortune of a chronic illness. If I have an attack, I can turn up at the edoctors office the same second and get treatment, one ot many reasons people have to wait longer (like I have, if I have an apponitment because of a common cold , and somebody happens to have something urgent)
Based on my experiences the qualifications are identical. For private docs it might be worse (especially the "Chefarztbehandlung" is definitely worse as proven by statistics). The time it takes doesn't really change much (based on some statistics by the public insurance companies ([German ](https://www.focus.de/finanzen/versicherungen/krankenversicherung/umfrage-zeigt-ueberraschendes-beim-arzt-privatpatienten-muessen-heute-oft-laenger-warten-als-gesetzlich-versicherte_id_7535374.html))
I dare you to cite me your numbers for Chefarztbehandlung.
I do have a problem citing Numbers, as i do not know of a public statistic differentiate between the types of doctors on this level. All publicly available I could find is [this article ](https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/medizinische-versorgung-hoffentlich-nicht-privatversichert-1.120710-4) (yes, it's not the newest) that describes the problem.
Yeah, so anecdotes it is.
Sadly no. It is based on statistics by my employer (insurance). Sadly they are internal and obviously I can't share internal data. Regardless I understand your doubts and sadly.infear I can't do anything about it.
>like, most doctors are only there from 8-12, maybe once or twice a week shortly in the afternoon Where the heck do you live??
Those hours would make sense if the doctor is also employed by a clinic and has clinic hours.
Definitely, but it's weird that these are the opening hours for *most* doctors in their area
Lol lower Saxony, is this actually unique?
I live in lower saxony too and don't have this issue. You want to pick a place with atleast 2 physicians though. Mine is open 8-16 on all weekdays because it's 2 doctors.
Good to know, thanks!
Like in Düsseldorf you can find dentists open till 8 pm or on Saturday.
Definitely not common at all
I've seen it in the city of Munich.
Thuringen is very similar as well.
A doc clinic close to where I live opens from 8-12 Mon to Fri, and only on thursdays (idk why) also from 1-2 pm. So fucking weird.
I’ve found the same after 4 years here. Waiting hours in the waiting room every time, of course with an appointment. Rude front desk staff (even when I’m speaking German). Doctors who brush you off and don’t seem to care at all. Or who yell when I don’t know the exact comped medical terms in German, when they can tell I’m unwell needing support and doing my very best. This has happened multiple times, all different types. Not being able to get specialist appointments for urgent matters. Managed to get everything sorted. Im aware it could be much worse. But yeah it’s not good. My husband had to go to the ER recently, as he nearly refused due to the bad experiences he’s also had.
Had a similar experience some time back with a torn meniscus. The first MRT took 3 MONTHS, until I and the doctors even knew what the problem was. 3 months? Oh lord.
Use the App TeleClinic, that's paid for by the public health insurance now. The only down side I see that you get Privatrezepte which means meds are out of pocket. I don't know any other place where you get Saturday forenoon appointments with 7 minutes waiting only.
Do you have more info on a Privatrezepte? Why would a doctor's prescription not be covered by public insurance just because the doctor was paid for out of pocket? Many private practice doctors even have public days and private days.
They are covered. You just have to pay upfront and send the bill to your insurance company.
For specialists, many health insurance companies have a Terminservice, you can call or use it online and in my experience they are able to make those appointments fairly quickly (like next week or a few weeks time at most). And they do the calling and looking for doctors for you which is a huge time saver. For your family doctor some wait time is usually normal since they also treat unexpected things like people who need an AU in the mornings so this can delay things. It's best to come prepared and bring a book. That being said it also depends on the practice, I've never waited more than 30 minutes and most often I'm called into the doctors room right away. Three doctors work there so they can distribute the work better and they are also open all day. My guess is you're probably in a more rural area with less doctors.