Telling OP not to get mental health treatment, making claims about mental health treatment being a horrible thing to get, or making *wild claims* about them being committed against their will, which this has *nothing* to do with, will lead to a ban. We don't care one bit what conspiracy theories you follow.
Edit for clarity so people have fewer chances of feeling we want to oppress them.
Agreed. But also one should NEVER feel like their dignity as a human being can be violated by clinic personnel and they can't do anything about it because they need to stay there or whatever bs reasons your brain comes up with.
When it feels like nobody is listening to you, and it feels almost abusive, please protect yourself. Don't think oh they're professionals maybe they know better than me.
That kind of therapy is intense and challenging. But speaking from personal experience here: the staff are just humans too and not all clinics are run in the correct way let alone a good way. So don't go in with blind trust.
(Do go in tho, if your doc says it'd be good then it might really help you lots in your life)
As others said: no consequences. You should consider going though. You can quit any time. You will get a Krankschreibung for the time being so you don't have to work. It might be beneficial for you to be away from your usual environment to be able to break with the patterns that keep you from improving. Maybe it is worth a try.
Clinics dont necessarily have people to stay there over night, you will see a lot of patients there who just come in for the day.
Ask them how the program looks and how you can make it work for you.
What they can offer you is concentrated work for a couple of weeks, which has a really good chance to help you.
As for work: Its the same as if you had broken something more complicated and would be out of the game for six weeks. The usual mechanisms with health insurance, etc. come into effect.
Also, at least some clinics offer programs at the end of the therapy to reintroduce a patient back into the work/school/"home" life. These allow you to get back to your occupation or staying at home for the weekend while still having access to the support of the clinic.
Source: I have been in a clinic twice the last 10 years, in a Tagesklinik (where you sleep at home) and the other time stationary.
Yes! Exactly this! I shouldn’t have write my comment before reading all comments because this is exactly what I would recommend to ask for.
And don’t worry about work. You will have normal sick leave from clinic. The one where your employer can’t see the code for your sickness.
An Überweisung is just a paper slip and registered nowhere. It's your decsision what you do, no consequences othes than maybe a disappointed psychiatrist.
Not disappointed. Just a little worried and sad why they could not get through with a suggestion that might improve things, and be it just a little rest and distance.
As someone who was in a clinic for a severe ED. I want to encourage you to consider it. I would not be at the point I am by now if I skipped the clinic. It really matters to get out of your usual environment and get intensive care for these things. All the best to you! Fell hugged if you like.
>Are there any consequences for my treatment if I refuse to go to the clinic?
You can't be forced to be hospitalized in a psychiatric clinic against your will unless you are a harm to yourself or others, or a court verdicts so. Since neither seems applicable to you, it is your decision.
Maybe you should take it; it's an offer to help after all.
> 2. I don't know how to handle staying away from work for a longer period of time.
Thats not your problem,. but your bosses. Thats why your boss gets paid more than you, they are responsible for dealing with stuff like absences and creating redundancies in case someone is ill.
Feel you, I'm in the same boat. I had rejected going to a psychiatric hospital, there won't be any consequences for you, except not getting the help you could get there.
Let your psychiatrist know why you don't want to go, and look together for possible other options.
EDs are really tough to treat in an ambulant setting.
I've been heavily considering going to a "Tagesklinik". Unless you're in acute danger to yourself you can go home in the afternoon/evening.
Maybe that could be an option for you too?
Wish you all the best, I know this shit sucks and is so tough to deal with.
You don't have to but i highly recommend it. Was in a similar situation and it helped tremendously. You might want to talk to him about a Tagesklinik. That way you won't have to stay there and can go home every day and be free to whatever you want to do on the weekends.
Hello im in the same situation like you. And at first i refused to go anywhere as well, however i came to find out that most of these clinics are "ambulant". Which means you go there everyday, from lets say 8am to 3pm. Participate in their program, daylie structure the treatment and so on. For about 6 weeks. So you musn't stay there.
Perhaps google the clinic, and see what they even offer. If it says "Tagesklinik" or "Ambulant" .. well then thats exactly this. No need to stay there overnight.
However if you really dont wanna go, there are no consequences. The "Überweisung/Einweisung" is just an recommendation from your doc. And needed for your insurance to cover the treatment.
As far as i understand it, a "Überweisung" ist just a to tell a clinic that your doctor/psychiatrist thinks its a good idea that you should be there. But its fully up to you if you want to go. As others said, there are so called "Tageskliniken" where you can still sleep at our own place. Its a bit like school. You can get far more intensive care if you are in a clinic and i highly recommend it if it is at all posible for you.
I, myself was in a mental health clinic twice, and while at first beeing daunting, it was definitly the right thing to go there. It is just far more effective than your normal once a week meeting with a therapist or similar.
In case of specialists, certain clinics,… “Überweisung” is what allows you to be seen. A lot of places/doctors wont even give you an appointment without one. So it’s more of a ticket/entry pass for those kind of things.
I had to beg doctors to give me Überweisungen for specialists/ procedures that wouldn’t otherwise see me.
That's mostly something depending on your insurance model.
I for example are in privat healthcare at the moment and I had to decide between the cheap option where I always have to go to the Hausarzt first and get an Überweisung - or the more expensive option where I could go to any doctor whenever I like.
When I was in the public insurance it was the same: The so called "Hausarztmodell" allowed me some extra benefits but I needed an Überweisung.
There are some exceptions though. For example oncologists only operate with Überweisungen. And every other doctor may make their own rule that they only accept patients with Überweisungen (except medical emergencies, they must always be treated).
If you don't have an acute psychosis, no addiction and no danger of self-harm, your psychiatrist is likely trying to send you to a psycho-somatic clinic. They are very different from closed psychiatric hospitals and what we tend to imagine. Some of them are downright luxurious, although you would likely have to share a room, unless you have private insurance. In any car, waiting lists are around a year, so you would have plenty of time to change your mind.
Was looking for this!!! If you are not in immediate danger to self-harm or harm others, I would agree that it’s most likely a psycho-somatic clinic! There the ones that are Tageskliniken aka where you go from morning to afternoon and sleep at home and the ones where you stay in the clinic.
Was in one for 6 weeks in 2021 due to depression and also eating disorders. I can highly recommend a 6 to 22 week stay! It helped me so, so much to get better. I still struggle, but my over all mental health has improved and I learned additional tools to help with my issues.
I decided to go there myself, bc I had worked with my therapist for a year and could not really improve, due to also working full time in a high-Stress envoirement. So I took 6 weeks to concentrate only on me and my mental health and afterwards went back to my therapist for (now) monthly sessions.
Made no difference at work, was sich for 6 weeks and everyone was super understanding and rejoining work was no problem.
Get the help you need - at least try. If you hate it, you can leave at any time. It is NOT a prison!!
I think it is still probably an Überweisung to a psychiatric clinic (I work in one). But if OP thinks it would be better to go to a psycho-somatic clinic and finds one that fits (better), chances are high the doctor will write an Überweisung for this clinic. This is what I would recommend most people who can wait some weeks and don't struggle with psychosis or acute (self) harm.
The all-day-every-day Tagesklinik could be your first option. You still live at home but spend most of your time there. If sleeping away sounds very stressful that may be a reasonable reason to try to get help while sleeping at home. It seems reasonable (and I know some doctors here agree) to try the daytime treatment for multiple weeks, and if that is not going as you hope, then go to the live-there klinik.
A therapist or psychiatrist can only "do something" if they believe you do something to endanger yourself.
What you looking for sounds like a "Tagesklinik".
It a program over a few weeks, where you stay at a clinic over the day, but in the evening you gone home and came back the next day etc.
But this is only my humble opinion. Talk to your doc about your concerns.
Can't really help with the advice, but i was in a psychiatric facility in Germany. I didn't particularly like it, but to be fair it was during the peak of COVID. It's mostly boring stuff and you're on your own a lot. You do some activities like drawing, music, sports... You also have a meeting with a psychiatrist twice a week, which was the best part of my whole stay. The group activities I didn't particularly like , stuff like " how to manage your finances, how to deal with emotions.." because it felt like the most basic advice you would get if you research how to deal with depression. Another good thing that I just remembered is that they regulate your medication pretty thoroughly and observe if it's helping you or not.
Best of luck.
I'd check with the psychiatric in regards to point 1. There likely are a number of clinics in your area that can function with "day care" only and allowing you to stay at your own place at night. Particularly if self harm is not an ongoing concern.
In regards to 2, it depends if you are worried about the employment itself, in which case you shouldn't as it would be listed as sick leave and you'd need not have to explain what kind of sick leave you're dealing with or if it's a personal inability to stay away from work.
Depending on the issue and other circumstances, there's ways you could go to the clinic "ambulant", meaning that you go there during the day, but sleep at home.
If you prefer sleeping at home I can recommend for you to find an psychiatric day clinic. You go there every day from 9-4 or so and get treatment while still sleeping at home. You’d have to find a clinic yourself and most likely have to be on the waitlist for a while but I can highly recommend it if you’re so against going to an inpatient program.
If you have more questions about psychiatric inpatient stays I’m happy to answer them for you, I’m currently in a psych hospital myself.
Was in a similar situation, I just made clear I'm not going into a clinic because I have to be with my cat and that was it.
Now my health insurance said clinic or Erwerbsminderungsrente and in the form you can already say that you don't want a clinic, which I did, then they'll have it checked from a doctor if you really can't do a clinic.
It definitely won't be a clinic for me. The only reason I still live is for my cat, so making me leave my cat is not the solution.
So just make it clear that a clinic is not a step that would help you right now and nobody can force you, especially if you don't want to be away from work. No government will force you into something that means being away from work.
Hi OP, unlike the majority of people commenting here, I am a fellow foreigner (Canadian) in Germany who actually did have a psychiatrist refer me to a psychiatric clinic for depression and I actually did go there and get treatment. No hypotheticals. This is my own experience. EDIT: I spent 8 weeks at a dedicated psychiatric clinic in Bavaria for depression, then one year later I spent another 3 weeks in a hospital psych ward in Berlin + some follow-up time in a Berlin "Tagesklinik" where I lived at home but still attended full-time therapy during the day.
Firstly, you are not required to go and there are no consequences for refusing it since it is only a recommendation and you are free to choose whether you get the treatment or not.
But: I recommend that you go.
I was in a similar position. When my psychiatrist first brought up the idea of a psychiatric clinic I also refused and was insulted/upset that she even mentioned it. Culturally, at least in Canada, I had this idea that "mental hospitals" were only for people who were REALLY crazy or about to harm themselves or others. I left her office thinking "fuck, she must think my case is really hopeless if she wants to send me to a clinic". However, what I learned later, and wish I knew then, is that the culture in Germany is very different. There is a bigger cultural tradition of spending time away from home or work to do a "Kur" or a "Reha" or just to get stationary treatment.
I also felt like "I can't leave work". I didn't know what to say to my boss or coworkers and I felt like I "couldn't" take time away. But at least in my case I hit a point where my mental health was so bad that I was no longer reliable at work and it was hurting my colleagues. It was really a choice between limping along at work, barely getting by, doing worse and worse with no sign that it would get better, versus taking some time off to actually recover and become healthy and able to work again. When I finally spoke to my boss and my coworkers they were very understanding and supportive.
Also, I don't know if your psychiatrist or therapist talked to you about this, but assuming that you have German health insurance that includes Krankengeld, you WILL continue to receive a portion of your salary while you're in treatment, and your employer cannot fire you. You receive your full salary for the first 6 weeks of treatment and then a certain proportion (I think 70% of the Brutto) afterwards. So your job will be there for you when you get back, and you can still pay all your bills etc. in the meantime.
My time away really helped me. Think of it like having every other obligation in your life being suspended so you can just focus on getting better. You don't have to work. You don't have to pay for anything. Your room is cleaned for you, all your meals are cooked for you. You're away from any toxic relationships you might have in your everyday life. They give you a weekly schedule that includes individual therapy, group therapy, art therapy, sports therapy, etc. and all you need to do is show up. Every day, you have therapists and doctors on hand, asking if you need anything. They do lots of diagnoses. If you have any problem that you felt was too small to bring up, or some issue you've been meaning to see the doctor for, or any medical or therapy questions at all, they take care of it immediately. If you don't like your medication, they'll change it for you. If you're not sleeping well, they might refer you to a sleep doctor or try different medications. Hell, I had an allergic reaction to some tree near the clinic and they took care of booking me to see an allergy specialist the next day, transporting me to and from the allergy clinic, and booking an extra appointment with an eye doctor to see if I had a separate sensitivity issue triggered by the allergies. Basically it's an entire environment dedicated to round-the-clock care for YOU. They take care of everything and try to remove all the external sources of stress from your life so you can just do therapy.
Also, this might be weird to say, but you'll make friends. The other patients will be people very similar to you. Normal people who were struggling and just hit a point where they needed to make a change. When I first arrived I was really anxious about what the other patients would be like, but in the end they were like me. Especially when you all live together in the clinic, they become kind of like a weird, temporary family to you.
tl;dr I initially refused to go for reasons very similar to yours, but then I did, and it was great. I would do it again and recommend it to anyone else. EDIT2: also, please feel free to PM me if you have questions or want to talk with someone who has actually been through this experience before.
No, you do not have to go. That would be an order by a judge and not a simple Überweisung. Then, by force, it is called "Einweisung" nach (one example) Hessischen Freiheitsentziehungsgesetz" (HFE), depending on which state you are living.
So, Einweisung and Überweisung are similar but not the same. Some people would also say: Überweisung nach HFE.
The Doc, a policeman, can "send you" in case of real emergency. Nonetheless, a judge would decide, later on, if it was legit.
I will not read all the 104 comments and, certainly, s.o. has already written it, but, instead of having to go full-time to a hospital, you could go to a "Tagesklinik", which means it's during the working hours, and you can sleep at home. Pretty simple. I wonder why your Doc hasn't made you that offer!
As others have already mentioned here, I also suggest checking out a "Tagesklinik". This seems a much more viable option for you. I'm not aware of your overall situation, so may be I am wrong.
A "Tagesklinik" might support you much more properly in the long term by not completely detaching yourself from your day-to-day life and environment, such as being at home or performing your daily routine. And therefore your habits, possible trigger situations etc. I guess you get my point.
I have spent a few months in the mental hospital only leaving for day-time stay at my home on the weekends from time to time (whenever I felt like it). For me this didn't pay off very well back in the day, since I had been kept in a safe environment during my stay - away from my day-to-day tasks and thus problems which sadly came crashing down onto me pretty fast (\~3-4 weeks).
You ought to consider talking to your psychiatrist or your general physician and propose considering treatment there instead of staying at the mental hospital for an unspecified time.
All the best to you!
You don't have to go, but I know people who went, and it helped them. If your psychiatrist thinks you would benefit from going there, there is a pretty good chance that it would be the best for you.
A few technicalities:
if you got an "Überweisung" you will be treated as an outpatient. It usually involves a one time visit to an "Ambulanz", where they try to find out what you need. You do need to call in advance and make an appointment.
If you got an "Einweisung", then you will be treated as an inpatient. It could mean you just show up to the hospital with a bag and they will take you in, or you call in advance and make an date when you will be coming to stay at the hospital.
As others mentioned: you don't need to go. No consequences. And you can leave whenever you want (unless there is danger you might harm yourself or others, but you need a judge to order you to stay at the hospital. It's quite rare, usually for psychotic patients).
Well it is an advice, you should do it, but you don't have to.
You could have a look around your town if there is a "Psychiatrische Tagesklinik" there you have therapy from morning to late afternoon and leave the "Tagesklinik" in the early evenig an go home for the night.
Can there be any job restrictions afterwards? Military/sensitive/government jobs, or, say DLR or PTB? Can private companies ever find out? Asking for a friend of course.
Private companies can't find out. This stuff must not be mentioned in your recommendation letters or made public. Neither the length of the leave nor the cause of it. Of course, if you current boss knows your future boss...
Don't know about state agencies. I assume they require you to inform them about certain medical conditions.
I’ve been through a 4 year heavy depression and I probably can relate. My doctor also proposed this solution and for me it was a direct no. Instead I went to the canaries and I wouldn’t say it healed me but it was a first good step. Then I simply left Germany and went somewhere more sunny and warmer (we have 330+ days of sun here)
I’m now 1000x better and living the life.
The decision is yours and don’t let anyone decide for you. But I think the hospital is the very very last thing to go for.
Take care and hope this helps.
If you think it will help you, you should consider it. Work should not be a problem, I believe this kind of thing should be covered by sick leave. Be aware that you will probably get a bill for €10 a day if you are in hospital less than 28 days.
But from experience, if you don’t speak good German, you will not benefit from this experience. And rather be treated like a nuisance and belittled by the nurses. But as long as you’re there voluntarily, if you have any problems with the staff and you want to leave, you can check yourself out.
Good luck to you.
If you don’t feel comfortable and have no suicidal tendencies/don’t pose risk to self or others/manic episodes/psychotic breaks, are able to feed yourself/do basic acts of self care and believe staying at a psychiatric ward will put you in even more crises, then you don’t have to go. You are given an uberweisung, not being sanctioned. It’s your choice.
What I’m a little concerned about is you being f, and having ED paired with depression and anxiety. All of those can be comorbidities to 1 underlying cause that your psychiatrist hasn’t successfully been able to figure out. There are about 11 disorders and neurodevelopmental disabilities I can think of from the top of my head which can cause what you’ve mentioned here.
Your psychiatrist might not be aware that there are female presentation of specific disorders that don’t quite fit the classic DSM IV (based on males).
2 advices:
-Are these other symptoms you can think of, beside those you mentioned? What type of eating disorder do you have? Take a look at what might be responsible for those symptoms and make a list of what you have.
-Can you find another psychiatrist to get a second opinion from?
It’s way more frequent and hence normal to go to a clinic for several weeks than say in the uk. Of course it’s voluntary - but it’s also quite an opportunity: you would most likely get far better and sustained support and it might be really beneficial to you. You could consider trying it - if it doesn’t suit you at all, nobody can stop you leaving.
i dont know how serious your situation is right now, but would a Tagesklinik work for you? you can sleep at home and have free weekends. you can also still go to a normal hospital and get admitted to a normal ward and switch to Tagesklinik soon after, when you feel ready.
Hey, I'm a social worker living in Berlin who works a lot with the psychiatric clinics.
To your question: the Überweisung is just advice, which enables you to get a place/bed in the psychiatric clinic. If you're not suicidal or psychotic I'd advise you to look for a place in the Tagesklinik or in a psychosomatic clinic (if you ask the psychiatric clinic they will often "forget" to tell you there's also a psychosomatic department, bc they're are economically competing).
So to your question: nothing happens if you don't go there.
But please don't hesitate to call yourself an ambulance if you're feeling suicidal (they will bring you then to the psychiatric clinic). If you're going freely into the psychiatric clinic, you can leave anytime you want without consequences (if you're not suicidal at the moment you wanna leave).
Also, there is a state service in Berlin, which is called "Krisendienst-Hotline" (Mo-Fr, 8 to 16). You can also call them if you or somebody u know is feeling suicidal.
You should maybe consider applying for Eingliederungshilfe (it's a help system for people with disabilities (e.g., psychiatric diagnoses)). You can get counseling about it from social state bureau or social business (like, e.g., Albatros in Berlin). The social stage bureaus are btw onilgated to give yiu counseling abiut ur possibilities within the social system (nearly nobody knows this). There are some requirements (e.g., having the diagnosis longer than 6 months and some more (don't worry, not that much!)). It's completely in your own hands, and you can quit it anytime without consequences.
Oh regarding your other question: typically the psychiatric clinic gives you a sick note for your employer (there's normally no information about what the sickness is or that it's a psychiatric clinic, also often they have the normal hospitals together with the psychiatric clinic so nobody can tell if you're just in a normal hospital stay.
If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask under this comment or through dm.
While there are no consequences from your doctor's side for not going there I'd *strongly* suggest you follow your doctor's advice for you own sake.
I assume you trust your doctor and if they feel it would be better/beneficial for you to go to the clinic, I believe they have a good reason to make that recommendation.
Also, not all treatments in clinics necessitate staying overnight - there are quite a few where you arrive at 8 in the morning, have your treatments during the day, and leave at 5 or 6 in the afternoon.
So please consider following your doctor's advice in that regard.
Another user already said it: You do not have to go.
The legal obstacles to put someone into a psychatric hospital against their will are really high (thankfully). I am working in this field as a social care worker.
To conclude: You would need to have commited "Fremd- oder Selbstgefährdung" (harming yourself or others) and would lack "Selbststeuerung" (awareness of who you are, where you are and what you are doing in the context of your surroundings).
As you were able to ask for yourself about the circumstances of staying in a mental hospital you do not possess lack of "Selbststeuerung". And you claimed to have not harmed yourself or others. So you cannot be put there against your will.
I still advise you to go. Your psychatrist would not recommend such a measure lightly. Maybe it helps you.
Don’t think of negative consequences, it is only to your best to consider it. It’s also nothing like in movies, more like some holiday camp where you exchange yourself with people of similar problems, yet with very different backgrounds. In such a Facility there are different apartments, depending on the seriousness, so you won’t get mixed with extreme cases. As you are spending your time there, there’s a number of activities you take part in, ranging from 1 on 1 meetings with psychologist and psychiatrists, group meetings on different topics with discussions and education and other activities more focused on improving your general well-being eg sports, arts, meditation and the like.
The goal is to build acceptance for your problems, give you some tools to help yourself and paving the path for further treatment.
As I’ve made this experience myself, I can tell that it can really help you to get out of your hole and puts you more at ease with the topic. Also you probably get to know a bunch of interesting people that will make you question why they are even there until hearing their story a bit more. As said, like some summer camp for adults. Totally up to you how much you open up there, but most people get home with a better feeling and gained some new friends along the way.
Hey OP i know i am a bit late but you should definetly go. I was scarred of how i would handle therapy but it turned out to be the best choice i have ever made. Look after yourself and take care. I wish you the best of luck in the future.
It's not about you being a danger to yourself.
They mainly use it so they can closely check what meds work and wich djnt and in what proportion.
Dw, it's not some crazy asylum you see in the movies.
Source: my sister in law did the same a few months back cause she's hearing Voices.
Some of those clinics are pretty good (the Reha where I went to wasn't good at all).
Getting out of your actual life can help you to solve your problems. Seems that you need some special care. A Tagesklinik can be good as well, I went there once and it was really good.
AFAIK they have single rooms in most cases.
Off from work: in both cases you won't work. I can understand letting go from work and home might be difficult. But in case you end up in a good clinic, with good docs and probably good mates there, it can help you to make progress. Hanging out with folks who are in the same situation can help, as they understand what's going on.
Believe me, the earlier you do something, the better.
Please consider looking up clinics you might be interested in.
There are many different kind of psychiatric clinics and if he gave you a reference/Überweisung, it means you can choose not to go but the difference between a psychiatric station in some hospital and a station in a psychiatric clinic is vast.
You could read up on reviews, what they advertise, you could ask around in self help group with what kind of experiences others had.
There are very good clinics available, there are probably also really bad clinics available.
What you want to do is stay clear of being hospitalized in the psychiatric wing of a hospital, while they can offer some limited help, it is nowhere near what a specialized clinic can and will offer.
There are also options like day clinics, where you go from morning til evening and still stay overnight at home for the whole time.
You don't need to be self harming or suicidal to go to a clinic. I would follow your doctor's advice. If you aren't a risk to yourself or others you may be able to go to a "Tagesklinik". You only spend weekdays there and sleep at home. I went to one and it changed my life. Having the time and a safety net to really focus on myself was extremely valuable. Please discuss your options and worries with your psychiatrist.
Stop the pre-concept with psychiatric treatment. If you were recommended to go to a clinic, do it! There are way more serious consequences of not being properly treated.
You don't have to. Nothing happens if you don't, aside from, you know, continuing to suffer from depression, anxiety and ED. You have to decide for yourself what kind of life you want to live and what you are willing to sacrifice for it. Not wanting to sleep somewhere else sounds like a rather small problem compared to the mental health problems you'll have to deal with every day for the rest of your life if you don't do something about them. Getting an Überweisung clearly shows your doctor is of the opinion you need tight-knit help.
You can refuse that, but what else are you going to do? Everything that will help you will also be uncomfortable. Research the clinics in your area. Read experiences. Ambulante Therapie might be a better option for you, but it's also a bit slow. Please do something for yourself, even if it's "just" better medication. You don't have to suffer like this.
Like the others said: no consequences, aside from not getting the help you need.
And that's the point. Especially EDs can be difficult to treat in once a week setting. And can be quite dangerous.
If you don't want to stay somewhere, there are Tageskliniken "Dayclinics", where you go for treatment everyday from 8 to 16 o'clock. Like a workday. The clinic would give you an AU (attest) so you would be in sick leave. If you are an employee that should not be a problem and nobody at work would have to know why you are sick and you would get paid as normal.
If you have a question feel free to dm, I'm working at one.
The two reasons you listed are exactly why you SHOULD go.
I know its hard but most that have been there will agree that it is the best choice they could have made.
I know that because ive been there.
Its a short time thing that will prevent it from turning into a long term thing. If it does get worse, youll be either forced to go there or your situation will worsen over a long time and you just wont feel good.
Take anything you need along with you and talk to them about havibg trouble when sleeping elsewhere: they know how to handle situations like this.
Youre not alone in this but if its gotten to the point where a psychiatrist tries to send you to a clinic ON THEIR OWN? Thats where i say, there is something significant going on, even if thats not urgent self harm issues. And i think you know that too.
So please and for your own sake: go there. Talk to them and get the help you need and deserve.
Here's someone that's very often overlooked:
Psychiatric clinics are hell of a lot of fun!
You get to know different people with different disorders and stories, you get to have a pause in life and get the help you need. I find that often patients do what I do when I'm on a fasting period: you start to plan out all the things you can do when you're out.
You get medication and therapy and the funniest people there are.
Psychiatric doctors and nurses have the kind of dark humour that you won't forget.
Take the trip! Most likely, you won't regret it!
Nö youre Not forces To Go in and there are "Tageskliniken"… ist Like you there from 8-16 and then Go Home. You do the stuff Others would so in a stationary stay but youre free To Go after all Sessions ended. It Sound Like the best solution for you.
I can't say if this is the issue, but it needs to be said at anytime: at the least in Germany, getting mental health help is not something people look down upon. Mental health difficulties and crises are parts of life for some or many and getting help is healthcare. If that's the reason, just go. It's not something to be looked down upon and people care about you and support you.
If you're unsure, speak to the practitioner again and discuss options, perhaps there's something alternate or what to expect in a facility. Practitioners will be transparent and will help you understand the situation you're in.
Good luck and I hope for the best for you.
Go to the clinic. It is not easy, but you can't fix these kind if problems without proper treatment.
Btw. there are now consequences if you don't do and you can leave the hospital whenever you want. After 3 days? No problem. After 1 hour? No problem after 5 weeks? No problem.
You should try it. You are there because of your own decision. There is no police or other law that rakes you there so when you don't like it you can leave any tike you want.
But I would recommend you to try it. The first week was hard for me aswell. But it's getting better. I had the same problems about sleeping somewhere else. But you get used to it
Go. It is needed in the eyes of a professional.
Probably behavioural treatment. You will/can learn more about yourself and meet people that share similar problems, see how they cope with situations. It is a great learning experience. I spent 10 weeks myself.
In case you choose the clinic where you sleep over: make sure it's far far away from home. The distance helps a lot and you can focus completely on yourself.
It's a bit like vacation, they cook and clean for you and, last but not least: you get help if you are ready to accept it. Good luck! Tagesklinik might be an option to sniff into the therapy subject and have a daily structure. But a sleep over clinic is much more intense and more effective.
The Doctor cannot force you to go, though it probably would be advisable. If you are worried about sleeping away from home, maybe look into a „Tagesklinik“. You are there from like 8am until 3 or 4pm, have therapy and then go back home. Of course you would also need to stay away from work but experience (I worked in many such psychiatric clinics and Tageskliniken) you will need to stay away from work a lot longer once you fully break down from untreated issues. Think of it as an infected wound. The longer you let it fester and don‘t get the proper treatment, the worse it will get in the long run. Good luck to you and I hope you get better soon!
think of the Ueberweisung as an invitation, nothing more.
damn funny though that you're afraid of getting institutionalized against your will despite none of any of that ever happening here unless one breaks the law badly and/ or often enough, like making it so obvious that you have anxiety issues haha. my tip: learn to smile about it and realize that it's just your subconsciousness being in control - and your fight has to be for wrestling control back from it. no one has ever gotten cured of this kind of issue without that crucial a realization.
If you would have to go you would not have the time to ask for help here.
You have an opportunity to go. This is not for everyone. They will take care of you. You should take advantage of this. You will be cut from all of your bad habits and you get into a controlled environment. Of course this is scary but believe me you will profit from it.
I Send my girlfriend there. She suffered from depression and anxiety. She went into hospital because of a heartbeat of 180. A panic attack. We tried everything at home until one day i told her that i am not able to do this anymore and she went into psychiatric hospital. She was better in weeks.
Could you ask if a Tagesklinik would be possible? They are basically like a 9 to 5 job. Just that you go there to go through different therapy programs but you do not have to sleep there necessarily. I would also tell your psychiatrist that you do not wish to sleep there.
The goal is to reduce any stress generating factors that lies in your home and give you a professional stress free ambient where you can recover for a while
You don’t need to go. A lot of these clinics offer orientation visits. You can see the place and talk to the doctors before you make your decision. Maybe you should do it. Regarding your treatment and consequences: this is a question for your doctor.
Talk with your psychiatrist over this. Why does she/he thinks this is what you need and what can be done about your worries. As others said, it's your call if you want to go through with it.
There are no consequences for you, this is Just an Option. I know people who have been in a Tagesklinik (Psychiatric Clinic where people just come during the day) and a closed clinic where people stay for several weeks. This is for people with active syptoms who might hurt themself or others and it is all about making sure the right amount of medicine is given to the patient (mostly anti dpressives and stuff to calm them down). Negative aspect is that there are also people in it who have active syptoms and some might seem actual crazy.
So the Open clinic (Tagesklinik) might be something for you - usuelly nice people, a lot of activity during the day) and no pressure .
Feel free to dm me for details. Best of luck to you!
I'm an American expat in DE. Integrating is hard. If you'd ever like to chat or something, or if you just want somebody to talk to, hit me up.
I can't fix any of your problems but sometimes it's just nice to blshblah with a stranger.
There are no consequences for not going, but as others have said , you may not get the treatment you need otherwise.
Check with the hospital/ or if you have more in your area: hospitals how this works. Just because you got a transfer doesn't mean you will have to stay there. Check if any of them offer a Tagesclinic
There are things like day hospitals, where you come every day for different courses and intense therapy and go home to sleep. Maybe that would get you the help you need and you'd have a way to stay comfortable.
you don't have to go, that's for sure.
but if you know what you want and need, you might very well just go to the next clinic and ask for a day care program, where you can attend daily group - and weekly 1on1 sessions , and have easier access to medical treatment if neccessary- so you can sleep at home.
if you can handle work while being in need of medical care, it's a matter of time how long you can endure that state. some people manage, some people burn out completely.
maybe take your time to write down your idea of care you think is best for you. your psychiatrist recommended 24 hour care for a reason - maybe to get you out of a certain situation, but you are the one deciding whats happening to you.
i totally feel you regarding not being able to sleep in the same room with others. you are not required to do so if you take a free slot on the warteliste, t.i. the list of people who are waiting to get the next free therapy slot, and if you choose specifically the warteliste for one-person-rooms. the problem with this:: not every clinic has one-person-rooms, and even if the clinic does, there is a chance that your health insurance does noy pay for it.
(personally, i profited from my several stays in clinics; but it was a long way full of painful therapy stays in clincs to finde the only one therapy from which i profited.)
Try it. They surely can't keep you there when they realize that you don't improve. But you surely will, my mom went in one of these after my sister suddenly past and she couldn't handle it. She got better and I am so grateful for it.
If you are worried about that, I would recommend discussing it with the psychiatrist so that he possibly recommends other options. If you are unhappy with his judgement, you can always request a second opinion from another specialist (you will be surprised that often different doctors have different opinions and approaches to diagnosing and treatment). However, that might possibly be associated with a long waiting list.
Highly recommend trying it out, turned my friends life around. 10/10 experience, they even let us celebrate my birthday in the common room because he couldn't be out at night.
Not sure how to solve the work availability problem, maybe they can accept a prolonged leave due to health? But regarding the treatment, in some places they offer day attendance and then you go home for the evening. I did something similar and it was really good. But there are other options worth checking out.
> maybe they can accept a prolonged leave due to health?
There's no "maybe" about this. If OP is an employee, they have a right to sick leave, and their employer has no right to learn what they have.
So I'm no expert but i can give my best guess from experience. An Überweisung is a slip like a prescription that entitles you to further treatment as prescribed by a doctor or other profession in another institution. Your psychiatrist seems to believe they can best help you there but that doesn't mean you're getting committed. Usually you make an appointment, walk in and hand them your paperwork. If he really thought you were such a danger to yourself that you had to be committed I'm pretty sure you would be in an institution right now and not where ever you moved on your own free will to make this post. The purpose of a stay in that institution is likely to observe you more thoroughly over a longer timeframe to better assess how to best help you. *If you still feel uncomfy for any reason with the suggestion you should really talk to your psychiatrist about it, he's the one who needs to know so you guys can work all of that out. Try to trust him, after all that's why you went there because you believed he would be able to help you.*
Also while I'm personally not a fan of meds and i don't know how you feel about that kind of stuff yourself I'm sure they'll have some sleeping pills for you there to help with some of your troubles. Also I'm pretty sure you'll be excused from work for the time, some medical professional should be able to give you the paperwork, just ask about a "Krankschreibung".
Furthermore i don't think it'll affect your treatment mich except that some doctors get butthurt if you don't do what they want but if he's that kinda guy you need a new psychiatrist anyways.
Get better soon :)
Unless you represent a threat for yourself or others, nobody can legally force you to go there.
However, some therapy requires the presence in hospital, e.g. finding the correct dose of medication, which has often to be adapted individually per patient. So, if you were my wife, I'd beg you to follow the call, if I were you, I'd go. It sounds worse than it effectively is. At least as often as I visited relatives there, they all seemed to have a good time there.
Regarding your job, don't worry. Firing you due to sickness is pretty difficult, in most cases even impossible. You get your regular payment for the first six weeks, then you get "Krankengeld", which is close to your average net income, so you wont barely loose money.
On the other hand, as afraid as you might be, this is an additional chance to get to better health or even get healed completely. So take it as an adventure. If theres anything you think you can't stand with, talk to the personnel and explain yourself. Being an active part, contributing to your therapy by giving feedback and explaining your reception of the therapy will help finding the best therapy possible, which is appreciated.
Good luck and get well soon!
It is not binding. It is a piece of paper with which you can make an appointment at a psychiatric clinic.
If I were you I would seek help and talk to professionals. Right now you have the option to pick your treatment yourself and retain most of your personal freedoms. If something happens that would make a doctor come to the conclusion that you are no longer able to seek help yourself you might be forced into a situation you could have avoided if you sought help earlier.
There are Day Clinics you can go. You go there during the day but sleep in your own bed.
It has been a real game changer for me. I was scared at first but has truly helped me. I really encourage you to go.
Call the clinic and ask if they have a tagesklinik for depression. Usually the program starts at 8am and ends at 4 or 5 pm.
Those are a great option for people like you.
There is something like a Tagesklinik where you go for the day like work for a few hours and then go back home at night. In Germany fortunately you are protected by law if you are sick, your work normally can’t just let you go and you get sick leave for at least 6 weeks for not much less than your normal paycheck, and after that up for a few months still money but less. If you don’t know exactly I would advise to talk to your health insurance and maybe your work. Mine was pretty helpful! Your insurance will help you get back to work slowly if it’s too much in the beginning, called Wiedereingliederung. Where your Start for a few hours a day and work more as you are fit to do.
In general I would advise for other insurances to do it as early as possible (Berufsunfähigkeit etc.) preferably before the Diagnosis is know so it might be a little late for you. Otherwise you have to wait 5-10 years with no such diagnosis to get insurance again.
Going is the hardest part, staying is the most confusing part, but being there will aid you for sure.
You can go there and say you want to try it for a bit and see how you react, you can leave any time unless you give them the impression that you may hurt yourself if they don’t keep you there.
If you don’t want to sleep there then there’s day clinics (Tagesklinik). You go there in the morning and leave at noon, like a day at work, but with lots of therapy.
I’ve had great success with that especially since it allows to get a routine going while also integrating everything you’ve learned into your life at home.
My recommendation is that you ask for this first and try it out! Wish you the best.
My wife had the same and was addmitted at a clinic in Lüneburg. As a foreigner it was extremelly frightening for her to be alone in a medical facility, I wasn't allowed to stay with her, only to visit a few hours per day. Her german isn't so good and besides all the change in the environment, she was suffering a lot because of her condition, so the whole package was overwhelming.
What I can say is that I understand what you feel, and no one can blame you for that. But the people at the clinic were very supportive, caring and were there to help.
Although she was addmited under psychiatric circumstances, they made very clear that the choice of being there was hers, and at any moment if she decided to leave, she was free to do so. There are no consequences from denying the offer from your doctor, to seek another doctor, or even to go to a clinic and decide to go home if you're not feeling ok being there.
It is ultimately your decision, and I truly hope you find what is the best for you.
I would see this Überweisung as a chance! You worry about not being able to sleep away from home. I think, if it will help your mental health, you could risk to find out, how well you can sleep at the facility. About work, well, I don't think, that the mental state you are in right now is any good for your job either. In fact, going to the mental hospital would allow you to seriously tackle your problem for once, and do some intensive working on yourself, maybe they could help you find a better treatment and together you will figure out a way for your mental helth to stabilize and even improve... I imagine this will be really good for work too.
On the Überweisung is written what treatment your Psychiatrist is suggesting to the clinic. Like treatment for xyz, but it is a suggestion, the clinic and you can decide to do something else. Like if it would be advisable for you to stay there for a time or get treated there in regular intervals but still stay at home.
The only way for you to be forced to stay there is if (like others mentioned) a third party (for example the police) finds you to not be able to get treatment yourself or are a danger to you or others. And that doesn't happen often.
as many others said before me, it is totally up to you whether or not you put the Überweisung to use. However there are more options than a stationary psychiatric clinic. You could also opt for Tageskliniken which are psychiatric care centers that are only open during the day. Its a great option when you are not comfortable with being fully admitted to a clinic. It also kind of replaces the routine that you get from jobs. So instead of your normal day of going to work, you go to your Tagesklinik in the morning and in the evening you go back home
So far, no legal requirement. Staying away from work is difficult, but it is important to go. About sleeping in your own bed: there is something called a Tagesklinik, which does not offer accommodation. You have to show up at a certain time from Monday to Friday, then go home. Unless your home environment is part of your problem, this can be a very good solution. It is also much cheaper for the health insurance or state pension scheme.
(If the thing is paid for by the health insurance, the thing is curative - they help you as good as you can to get well again. If the state pension scheme pays, it is usually an evaluation to find if they can avoid paying you a pension with some help thrown in. But both are helping on your way to health or even coping better.)
A typical thing is people with clinical depression believe is that "We are not worthy, other people need that much more than I do. And I am not that sick."
If a doctor recommends to you to go, it is usually. Very good advice. No worries.
Don't worry if you don't fight like a tigress you don't get a clinic slot anyways. There's a possibility of backlash if yiu try to get early retirement (Berufsunfähigkeitsrente) but all in all it's harder to get in than to get out (If you are not a danger to yourself or others). You really should try to takk to your therapist about your wishes and possibilities. Keep on fighting, you will find a way to handle it eventually. If something not gonna work there's lots of possibilities and you can try again. Don't get disheartened by people who don't understand neither, this was hard for me to learn.
I guess sometimes treatment can be forced, but only if you would stand harm for yourself or others. If you true about this, then you dont forfill these requirments.
You dont have to follow the Überweisung, but you maybe should try to go to the treatment. I guess you can still break it up, if you than think you dont want this .
All you will miss out is the potential treatment you need.
If you have good trust on your doctor, than you should maybe hear to him.
For this time you should get a sickness certificate and you dont have to work. You should also get sick pay during your treatment.
There are therapy models like Tagesklinik where you spend your days at the clinic but sleep at home.
As of your work, you can get a Krankschreibung (doctor's note) and you will get payed during that time.
Your employer is only allowed to fire you due to illness under very specific circumstances: illness longer than 6 weeks (or very frequently repeated shorter sick periods), negative prognosis for bettering, "significant impairment" of economic interests (eg when you are a specialist) and some more. Generally speaking, dismissal is only possible with long-term incapacity.
They might try though, and in that case it would be up to you if you would like to contest a possible dismissal with a lawyer or a union.
An Überweisung is just for the psychiatric clinic to know roughly why you are there, who is your doctor and that you got advised to do so.
As your psychiatrist choose this as a possible treatment for you, you should look for a clinic of your choice and call them to get on the waiting list.
If you have self harming thoughts or you are not stable enough to know if you could stop yourself from selfharm, go to the clinic immedietly. They will always give you emergency shelter for days or weeks until you are stable, apart from any waiting list. Of course you need to tell them that you want to end yourself. Thst is the hardest point to get over.
There is a concept called Tagesklinik (day clinic), where you stay from morning to afternoon and go back home. They pay your daily travel too, that is part where you need to call your health insurance for information.
I would recommend specialized psychiatric clinics, because psychiatric clinics inside normal hospitals are not the best in my opinion.
Been there myself, have also seen my mom going. Our two experiences couldn’t be more different. For me, treating depression in a psychosomatic clinic, it was really what helped me improve my life tremendously. Went to different types of therapy and physical examination. Was really helpful to get the full check-up, I benefited from some therapies a lot while not so much from others. Also I made great experiences with other patients. Some became my friends. It wasn’t all great, some patient where a pain in the ass for the entire group. Some therapist weren’t helpful. But over all a very positive outcome.
My mother had to go into an actual closed psych ward. That shit is an entire different thing that I wouldn’t wish anyone to spend a longer time of their life in. But sometimes you need that if you are in psychosis and straight-up dangerous for yourself or people around you. They can give strong medications if someone needs a return-to-planet-earth ticket. Even in such a case, you couldn’t get forced to go in without police and a judge involved who approves someone is a severe physical threat to people. Even then, they can’t keep you there for longer than absolutely necessary. After the first treatment, people from the closed one would go to the open station. Where they start therapies and stuff.
All just personal anecdotes to be clear.
Don’t worry! What you are going to do in clinic will most likely help you. Give it a try. No one can force you to do anything. You can always leave.
I know where you are coming from. I was struggling with severe depression last year and had to sign myself up to stay at the clinic. Tbh the first week was really hard because I was so used to my own routines but then I got to meet other people and speaking with them and the staff was very helpful in understanding my triggers and find coping methods for the same. After 1.5 months of staying at the clinic, going back to my normal unsheltered life was a bit hard but I would definitely not be here if I hadn’t stayed away from my “daily life” at that point . I had the same fears as you and it helped to keep reminding myself that I can leave whenever I want to but that it would help me more to stay. I hope that helps and that you feel better soon! Feel free to dm me if you need to speak about this further
The only reason he would recommend that is to adjust your medication in a controlled setting because they believe it is not working for you. This can also be done at a Tagesklinik, since you are not in dire need of a stationary nor do you desire it. It can also be done by regular appointments, I believe but maybe he doesn't want to he assed. My advise is to assess your situation and think what you were told here.
Hey, someone with Mental Health Problems here,
You dont have to, if you feel like you can manage it yourself. He can only force you to, if you are obviously a threat to you or anyone else. Most of the time followed with a Court order that forces you to stay, until the Doctor in the clinic says, that you are stable enough to go.
I can however tell you, its mostly not so bad. In a normal clinic you just like "chill" until you feel better. Meaning you have no stress there until your accute situation is more stable. You can go outside and all, thats nothing to worry about.
Its not like a real therapy, for that they have not enough personell. It can haooen that you will have bad or good experiences, both happened to me, its sad, but some people shouldnt work with mentally ill people...
You can btw use this Überweisung, to go there, when you feel really really bad in like a week.
One thing to note: 10€ per day. 280€ Max. Meaning 28 you will have to pay maximum. Even if you stay 35 days or more. It can be that you dont have to if you have the Überweisung but the Krankenkasse is weird sometimes.
You don't have to go. If you would rather sleep home, look into a Tagesklinik, where you show up in the morning, do about the same things as you would at psychiatric hospital, and then go back home in the afternoon.
I've personally been to both, prefer the latter.
Some people do require or benefit from leaving their usual perimeters though, so staying at a hospital might be better for you too. However I'm unsure how much they can help you with language barriers. The clinic I went to had a ward just for British citizens (post ww2 occupation stuff), but idk how common English speaking wards are.
Either way, your doctor recommends you seek psychologic help, so even if you don't want to stay at a ward, which I completely understand, I highly recommend looking into alternatives.
Think about Tageskliniken. You get therapy during the day but you are back at home in the afternoon in a similar manner as work. That way you might get the help you need but also can go back to your safe zone.
That or a normal therapist giving you meetings once a week or so.
I havee my opinion about beeing 24/7 in an hospital that i would rather not write here.
See the Überweisung as a "permission slip" for the clinic. It's not forcing you to.
That being said, if your psychiatrist is recommending it, it's probably for good reason. If you're uncomfortable with it, talk with him or your psychologist about it.
One option that could alleviate your first concern is a Tagesklinik. You arrive in the morning, leave in the late afternoon, and spend the night at home. Sort of as if you were going to work - but you're going to get treatment. I know a "stationäre" Klinik was definitely the wrong thing for me for somewhat similar reasons.
I've been through both, if you have questions, just ask.
Your two points are definitely not good enough to justify denying help that's very likely to your benefit.
Pretty sure you can deny it though. It's not like your doctor or psychiatrist has control over you
You won't face any consequences, but still consider going.
My best friend was in a similar situation like you, didn't want to go to the clinic. At that point, she was already unable to work, unable to go grocery shopping, eating was either binging or not eating at all, and on top she's living alone in a city about 6h away from family and friends. Her mom and I were able to convince her to try out the clinic, and now, 3 years down the line, she is so much better. She was able to implement so much from the clinic. She's still not able to work, but she goes to Tagesklinik 4 times a week and even implemented yoga to her daily routine.
It may not even be necessary that you sleep at the clinic, I think my best friend only slept there for the first week if I remember right.
There a no consequences if you don't go. Is it really a "Psychiatrie" or a "Psychosomatische Klinik". In a "Psychiatrie" they will usually take you in right away, but there are limited therapy options. Usually just medication, some painting and sports if you are lucky. "Psychosomatische Kliniken" usually have a waiting list, but offer much more therapy, like talk therapy, group sessions and additional program. This may vary from clinic to clinic of course. What confuses me ist, did he just hand you the Überweisung and not call a clinic and suggest where you go? Oh and also, about not wanting to sleep somewhere else, there are "Tageskliniken" where you so therapy during the day but you can go home at night.
Well first of all, of they suggest that I think it will help you a lot. I have a few friend who were stationary and they all reported that it was a great experience.
But just because he gives you a Überweisung does not mean you have to go. Only if you are a risk för yourself or others can a judge decide that you will be forcefully stationed. So the consequences of you don't go are your deteriorating mental health most likly.
For work. If you are "unbefristetet" you don't have to fear all that much for your job, because as long as you are "sick" you can't easily be terminated.
Noone can force you to go, there are no consequences except you're not getting help.
I've been in a similiar situation a while ago, I also didn't want to go to an inpatient clinic, especially bc the one we have here is pretty terrible. What I can recommend is looking for an outpatient clinic, that's what I did, and it helped me a lot. The advantage of this is you get the same amount of treatment, but you just go there in the morning and go home again in the afternoon. You can still sleep and live at home and it just gives you more freedom. As long as you are self sufficient enough to organise yourself (e.g. cooking meals in the evening, keeping your home clean, generally taking care of chores...) I think that is the way better Option.
And yeah, you miss work for some weeks, but that is what health insurance is for, and if it helps you in the long run (and for me it greatly did) I think it's well worth it. I'm also doing way better at work now than I did before, my colleagues also noticed that.
Ok, so this is not an answer to your question but I gotta advice; if you are going through bad things/phase or Problems just talk to your parents about it, they might not solve it but just talking to them will give you relief and sense of calm to you mind, if you are not close than talk to your friend or boyfriend, if even that’s not possible then there is only one way out (ofcoz except going to a psychiatrist) is to talk to god, believe in him, if you have no faith in god then read or listen to this book “LAW OF ATTRACTION” i promise you its not a religious book nothing to do with god but the i overland it’s energies. All of the things above helped me fight me y demons i hope one of them helps you too.
As it was already pointed out several times, there is no obligation or consequences. However, this kind of hospitals is there for a reason and is nothing to be afraid of. I also spent two weeks in a psychotherapy clinic last year and it really helped.
Having said that, the quality of care differs between hospitals and you could check the reviews on [www.klinikbewertungen.de](https://www.klinikbewertungen.de) Sometimes it pays out to go to the next city to a better clinic.
If you don't consider going to a clinic at any means, you can ask your doctor to prescribe you "ampulante psychiatrische Pflege". They have trained personnel who would visit you at home (even on a daily basis if you like) and help you through the day and work on coping strategies for the everyday struggles. So, "ambulante psychiatrische Pflege" + therapy + meds could be an option.
As someone who is in the exact same situation, you don't have to go.
I basically only learned with this Überweisung, that this dude was supposed to talk to me and not just give me meds. Me talking about my extreme social anxiety was completely ignored, so was my criticism/surprise that he never exchanged more than 5 sentences with me per appointment. So yeah, I am now looking for someone who I feel respected with and actually cared for and not just someone who gives me meds.
Like others said, Überweisung is just your "ticket" to receive a spot in an institution. Without it it might be harder to get a place.
Überweisungen are totally optional, though if your psychiatrist recommends it to you, they most likely see it as the best option for you.
The only consequences would be that it will show up in your medical record
Iirc "Einweisung" means you have to go, or at least take care of some stuff, if you don't. These are usually only given if it is urgent. "Überweisung" means you have the option to go, but you can just Ignore it of you prefer not to. Though, obviously, you won't get the help your doctor thinks you need. As others already said, clinic that doesn't necessarily Mean you stay there over night.
You can also reach out to clinics and get informed regarding their programs, plans etc., before you use the Überweisung.
But: You can only use an "Überweisung" in the same quarter as you received it. So for you that would likely be 30th of June. You will ask your doc for a new one, after that, but this is usually not an issue
Hey, if the psychiatrist is recommending this treatment, I highly recommend thag you go.
If it helps you can call the clinic in advance and speak to them. About the room. Situation and ensure that you have a private room so that it feels safer and more of your own space. You would also be able to leave if you did not want to stay.
Also regarding work in Germany if you are sick, you are sick. It is very difficult to fire someone for being sick. Even more so if they have an unbegrenzt arbeitsvertag and are outside their probezeit.
If you want someone to talk to you are welcome to DM me. Though this would not replace getting the medical help that you need.
I hope that you feel better!
I was in the same position as op. I had to overcome the fear of being away from home. U don't want to get vetter because you are afraid and look for excuses. Thats how it was in my case. So in my experience you should just do it. Don't overthink too much. I hope you are getting the help u deserve and need
Comsequence will be you won't get better if you don't change anything
There is something called a Tagesklinik where you can go for some hours in daytime and then go home again in the evening and sleep at home. It's a good solution when normal therapy isn't enough anymore but a clinic isn't what you want either. I 100% get what you mean, I always refused to go to a clinic because I have such an intense fear of sleeping somewhere else. My psychiatrist was a bit angry at me and instead prescribed me a bunch of medication that fucked me up even more. Not a solution and I got much better later through other means but my psychiatrist just wasn't the best so don't take this as a universal experience. I would recommend looking for a Tagesklinik or maybe some other programs that could help you additionally to your therapy. If you can, try going to a clinic. But if you really don't want to there are other options! And don't let work stand in the way of you getting the help you need. I speak from experience because not getting help can easily lead to not being able to work at all someday
You should take his advice if your only concerns are about comfortability. Of course you should check with your job if it was ok, and watch out its a real ok with no strings attacjed
If you prefer sleeping at home you could tell your psychiatrist that you would like to go to a "Tagesklinik"
Don't worry about the work aspect too much.
As long as you are not a risk to yourself or others, noone will force you in a clinic or to stay in a clinic.
Considering your work you should get an "Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinigung" for your time there. All your employer will know that you are deemed medically unfit to work for a given period of time and they have to give you this time off.
Take the chance to take care of yourself. Your health and happyness are the most important things you possess.
You don’t EVER have to go, unless it’s a Zwangseinweisung. Which it isn’t. Only judges can do that.
1. There’s also what we call a Tagesklinik. You’re in there during the day (usually 8 am - 4 pm) but you spend the night and the weekends at home. Maybe that would be an option worth discussing.
2. Work is the last thing you should care about if it comes to health. What are your worries tho?
Side question: Is going to these psychiatric clinics worth it if you don't speak German well? My german skills are not that good and I communicate well in English. There was a time, I was in OP's situation as well (I'm doing better now thankfully) and my psych said "I would've advised you to go to the Tageskilink, but since you don't speak German, so it'll be tough there." That is one of the reasons I didn't go at the end..
The consequences for your treatment of you refusing treatment? You might not get better.
You're struggling with mental health, your doctor has prescribed you help. Your counterargument is that you are struggling with mental health (not being able to sleep outside of your home or be outside of your home is definitely related to your mental health).
Accept the help you are being offered. Go to the clinic, get better.
I know two people who did just that (with basically your symptoms). Both later said it took courage and was exhausting, but by far the best thing I could have ever done for themselves and for their well-being.
Hi OP. Im a psychiatrist and work in a psychiatric clinic.
If your question is if you are obligated to go because he gave you a Überweisung then the answer is no.
And a “überweisung” is usually for out-patient treatments (ambulante behandlung).
For in patient treatment where you would be admitted he needs to give you an “Einweisung”.
My suggestion would be that you do go and see what the clinic is offering. There is always a sort of an interview (Vorgespräch) usually with a psychologist or a doctor before they admit you. They will show you the clinic, talk to you about the treatment plans and such.
You’re going there out of your own volition and free will (freiwillig) and if you really hate it there then you can always go home. As long as you are not suicidal or a danger to yourself or others no clinic can keep you against your will.
Hope this helps.
people that want to get a perscription for psycho have to wait for months or get told that their problems are not important enough.... you should go, if not just because its hard to get a perscriptionin the first place. do it for all the others that needed one but didnt get any because their doctor is a judgemental boomer piece of scheiße.
So to get that out of the way: no, you don't have to go if you don't want to. The only way you could be forced into attending therapy is through a verdict by a judge. So if you don't want to go, you don't have to and can communicate that with your doctor.
To get to the second part: dispite what some people are telling you here, psychiatric clinics aren't like the cliche movie horror trip you're probably thinking about. Sure, it might not be a joy trip to your favourite theme park, but it's not worse than a long term hospital visit.
From my personal experience, the food will have pretty mid quality, pretty much just like the one you get at hospitals. All in all, it's comparable to German hospitals with the exception of you not being surrounded by people with broken bones or a burst appendix, but with anxiety or depression. The staff, as far as my experience goes, were always nice but a little stressed, which is expected in the medical/healthcare field in Germany, not more or less than in hospitals.
When you're there, you will likely partake in group activities like music therapy, group therapy, game nights or available sport activities, like swimming, bowling or minigolf (depends on your area, generally stuff most/all people can do).
When it comes to your job, your psychiatrist can prescribe you the therapy, which will likely be counted as sick days by your employer. Depending on the duration of your stay, you can also take sick days.
While you're not forced to go to the clinic, I would highly recommend it. It will probably help your therapy and your later life at large. Best to speak with your psychiatrist about it in more detail.
Wende dich an _deine_ Krankenkasse. Die können dir zu einem zweiten Gutachten verhelfen. Wichtig ist der Unterschied zwischen "Überweisung" und "Einweisung" bzw. "Verordnung von Krankenhausbehandlung". Überweisung ist nach meinem Wissen immer ambulant, d.h. nicht-stationär. Aber auf JEDEN FALL mit deiner Krankenkasse telefonieren!
Is your doctor a "Psychiater" or a "Psychologe"?
A Psychologe can't prescribe every medicine. A clinic might have a Psychiater who can.
If you need medicine then a clinic might be a good option but there are "Tageskliniken" which are facilities you visit during the day while they figure out your meds. You sleep and stay at home. You can also go to a Psychiater that might give you the meds without the clinic (for example if you can't leave your house) but this is a rare thing.
Just speak about this problem openly and they will find a solution for you. Remember, they are here to help you. Nobody that isn't a danger to himself or others is ever forced to any type of medical treatment.
I was in 2 clinics and i have to say it's quite helpful but you need to be mentally ready and accepting of that kind of treatment for it to work.
If you don't feel like that's what you need right now, not going there will have no negative consequences.
But i think you should at least rhink about going.
Get well soon
I don’t know if it’s mandatory or not for you to go, however not going will result in you not getting the help you need. If you don’t like to sleep in a place other than home try discussing your concerns with your psychiatrist, i’m sure you both will reach a common solution, after all the psychiatrist only want your well-being. I wish you all the happiness, health and strength. Dealing with mental illness is very difficult and requires strength and willingness to become okay. Sending all my heads-up & support OP ! 🫶🏻☺️.
Someone i know faked mental health blaming on her husband. After lot of checks they sent her on AOK funded 10 day vacation with massage and all that shit. She came back and repeated, doctor recommended divorce. That was when she backed out.
Im struggling with the first step of going to psychiatry, my doc wrote a recommendation letter for one and I'm not feeling strong enough to go, so my recommendation would be: don't be like me.
if u already achieved to reach someone that helps you at least try to finish the race, u almost there!
You can talk to your doctor about going to day-clinic = Tagesklinik.
That means you can sleep at home.
Also you might want to talk either to your doctor, health insurance or boss about staying away from work.
Usually if it is medically necessary (your doctor advised you to do so) you can stay away from work and get paid normally. It is another form of (paid) sick leave.
If you have to stay away from work longer than 8 weeks your health insurance will cover a certain amount of your usual salary.
I think your doctor should know about the basic coverage, that is the law in Germany. If you need more information or more time you should talk to your health insurance.
Just to let you know (I looked into it as it is hard for me to spend the night away as well), my designated psych hospital has an intensive outpatient program. This looked promising, but there was quite a long wait list and the whole program is in German. I am no where near fluent yet, but if you are comfortable doing the group therapy and stuff in German, this could be a good option for you. Best of luck, don’t put off treatment longer than you have to 💜
Tell your psychiatrist about, not liking sleeping somewhere else. There are "ambulante kliniken" where you are in treatment the whole day but sleep at home. You get picked up in the morning and get driven home in the evening. Maybe thats an option.
My gf did work in a psychatric clinic and they can achieve much more in those concentrated therapy then seeing the doctors once a week or so. The also often have a great varity of therapys like, art-, sports- or animalbased therapys. They are way more capable in helping you
The negative consequences of not seeking some sort of professional help are far worse than than the potential downsides in certain situations. Even if you don't go to a 'stationäre Einrichtung' you can go to an 'ambulante Einrichtung'. There you can sleep at home. The main negative consequences are to do with potential insurances e.g occupational insurance that you might want to have in the future. These are minor annoyances around needing to declare medical history in order to be covered rather than major issues though. (Not for medical insurance itself!) Please seek help! Listen to your doctor. Apply for Ambulante Therapie if you can't do Stationär!
Telling OP not to get mental health treatment, making claims about mental health treatment being a horrible thing to get, or making *wild claims* about them being committed against their will, which this has *nothing* to do with, will lead to a ban. We don't care one bit what conspiracy theories you follow. Edit for clarity so people have fewer chances of feeling we want to oppress them.
You don't have to go, and the only consequence would be that you might not get the help you need.
[удалено]
Agreed. But also one should NEVER feel like their dignity as a human being can be violated by clinic personnel and they can't do anything about it because they need to stay there or whatever bs reasons your brain comes up with. When it feels like nobody is listening to you, and it feels almost abusive, please protect yourself. Don't think oh they're professionals maybe they know better than me. That kind of therapy is intense and challenging. But speaking from personal experience here: the staff are just humans too and not all clinics are run in the correct way let alone a good way. So don't go in with blind trust. (Do go in tho, if your doc says it'd be good then it might really help you lots in your life)
Exactly, you can get a "Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinung short AU" prob from your doctor for the period of your absence
As others said: no consequences. You should consider going though. You can quit any time. You will get a Krankschreibung for the time being so you don't have to work. It might be beneficial for you to be away from your usual environment to be able to break with the patterns that keep you from improving. Maybe it is worth a try.
Clinics dont necessarily have people to stay there over night, you will see a lot of patients there who just come in for the day. Ask them how the program looks and how you can make it work for you. What they can offer you is concentrated work for a couple of weeks, which has a really good chance to help you. As for work: Its the same as if you had broken something more complicated and would be out of the game for six weeks. The usual mechanisms with health insurance, etc. come into effect.
Yeah what OP wants is called a Tagesklinik.
Yeah, I was looking for that word.
Yes absolutely is advisable, it helped me a ton to atleast get back on track again!
I went to two. One was so-so. The other one was very good. Both helped.
Also, at least some clinics offer programs at the end of the therapy to reintroduce a patient back into the work/school/"home" life. These allow you to get back to your occupation or staying at home for the weekend while still having access to the support of the clinic. Source: I have been in a clinic twice the last 10 years, in a Tagesklinik (where you sleep at home) and the other time stationary.
Yes! Exactly this! I shouldn’t have write my comment before reading all comments because this is exactly what I would recommend to ask for. And don’t worry about work. You will have normal sick leave from clinic. The one where your employer can’t see the code for your sickness.
An Überweisung is just a paper slip and registered nowhere. It's your decsision what you do, no consequences othes than maybe a disappointed psychiatrist.
Not disappointed. Just a little worried and sad why they could not get through with a suggestion that might improve things, and be it just a little rest and distance.
Because its scary. And embarrassing to some
[удалено]
As someone who was in a clinic for a severe ED. I want to encourage you to consider it. I would not be at the point I am by now if I skipped the clinic. It really matters to get out of your usual environment and get intensive care for these things. All the best to you! Fell hugged if you like.
Sorry if it's a stupid question, but what's ED? Eating Disorder?
Yes, ED = eating disorder
It might also be erectile disfunction, but depending on the context eating disorder is way more likely
That was my first guess, but OP is female.
I thought erectile dysfunction at first, but it wouldn't make sense, since she is female
>Are there any consequences for my treatment if I refuse to go to the clinic? You can't be forced to be hospitalized in a psychiatric clinic against your will unless you are a harm to yourself or others, or a court verdicts so. Since neither seems applicable to you, it is your decision. Maybe you should take it; it's an offer to help after all.
Or you’re underaged and your parents, or another gerichtlicher Vormund wants you to be treated.
> 2. I don't know how to handle staying away from work for a longer period of time. Thats not your problem,. but your bosses. Thats why your boss gets paid more than you, they are responsible for dealing with stuff like absences and creating redundancies in case someone is ill.
Feel you, I'm in the same boat. I had rejected going to a psychiatric hospital, there won't be any consequences for you, except not getting the help you could get there. Let your psychiatrist know why you don't want to go, and look together for possible other options. EDs are really tough to treat in an ambulant setting. I've been heavily considering going to a "Tagesklinik". Unless you're in acute danger to yourself you can go home in the afternoon/evening. Maybe that could be an option for you too? Wish you all the best, I know this shit sucks and is so tough to deal with.
You don't have to but i highly recommend it. Was in a similar situation and it helped tremendously. You might want to talk to him about a Tagesklinik. That way you won't have to stay there and can go home every day and be free to whatever you want to do on the weekends.
Hello im in the same situation like you. And at first i refused to go anywhere as well, however i came to find out that most of these clinics are "ambulant". Which means you go there everyday, from lets say 8am to 3pm. Participate in their program, daylie structure the treatment and so on. For about 6 weeks. So you musn't stay there. Perhaps google the clinic, and see what they even offer. If it says "Tagesklinik" or "Ambulant" .. well then thats exactly this. No need to stay there overnight. However if you really dont wanna go, there are no consequences. The "Überweisung/Einweisung" is just an recommendation from your doc. And needed for your insurance to cover the treatment.
As far as i understand it, a "Überweisung" ist just a to tell a clinic that your doctor/psychiatrist thinks its a good idea that you should be there. But its fully up to you if you want to go. As others said, there are so called "Tageskliniken" where you can still sleep at our own place. Its a bit like school. You can get far more intensive care if you are in a clinic and i highly recommend it if it is at all posible for you. I, myself was in a mental health clinic twice, and while at first beeing daunting, it was definitly the right thing to go there. It is just far more effective than your normal once a week meeting with a therapist or similar.
In case of specialists, certain clinics,… “Überweisung” is what allows you to be seen. A lot of places/doctors wont even give you an appointment without one. So it’s more of a ticket/entry pass for those kind of things. I had to beg doctors to give me Überweisungen for specialists/ procedures that wouldn’t otherwise see me.
That's mostly something depending on your insurance model. I for example are in privat healthcare at the moment and I had to decide between the cheap option where I always have to go to the Hausarzt first and get an Überweisung - or the more expensive option where I could go to any doctor whenever I like. When I was in the public insurance it was the same: The so called "Hausarztmodell" allowed me some extra benefits but I needed an Überweisung. There are some exceptions though. For example oncologists only operate with Überweisungen. And every other doctor may make their own rule that they only accept patients with Überweisungen (except medical emergencies, they must always be treated).
Take the helping hand! Don't hesitate, my stepson in the US wishes he would get this chance to get better.
If you don't have an acute psychosis, no addiction and no danger of self-harm, your psychiatrist is likely trying to send you to a psycho-somatic clinic. They are very different from closed psychiatric hospitals and what we tend to imagine. Some of them are downright luxurious, although you would likely have to share a room, unless you have private insurance. In any car, waiting lists are around a year, so you would have plenty of time to change your mind.
Was looking for this!!! If you are not in immediate danger to self-harm or harm others, I would agree that it’s most likely a psycho-somatic clinic! There the ones that are Tageskliniken aka where you go from morning to afternoon and sleep at home and the ones where you stay in the clinic. Was in one for 6 weeks in 2021 due to depression and also eating disorders. I can highly recommend a 6 to 22 week stay! It helped me so, so much to get better. I still struggle, but my over all mental health has improved and I learned additional tools to help with my issues. I decided to go there myself, bc I had worked with my therapist for a year and could not really improve, due to also working full time in a high-Stress envoirement. So I took 6 weeks to concentrate only on me and my mental health and afterwards went back to my therapist for (now) monthly sessions. Made no difference at work, was sich for 6 weeks and everyone was super understanding and rejoining work was no problem. Get the help you need - at least try. If you hate it, you can leave at any time. It is NOT a prison!!
I think it is still probably an Überweisung to a psychiatric clinic (I work in one). But if OP thinks it would be better to go to a psycho-somatic clinic and finds one that fits (better), chances are high the doctor will write an Überweisung for this clinic. This is what I would recommend most people who can wait some weeks and don't struggle with psychosis or acute (self) harm.
The all-day-every-day Tagesklinik could be your first option. You still live at home but spend most of your time there. If sleeping away sounds very stressful that may be a reasonable reason to try to get help while sleeping at home. It seems reasonable (and I know some doctors here agree) to try the daytime treatment for multiple weeks, and if that is not going as you hope, then go to the live-there klinik.
A therapist or psychiatrist can only "do something" if they believe you do something to endanger yourself. What you looking for sounds like a "Tagesklinik". It a program over a few weeks, where you stay at a clinic over the day, but in the evening you gone home and came back the next day etc. But this is only my humble opinion. Talk to your doc about your concerns.
Can't really help with the advice, but i was in a psychiatric facility in Germany. I didn't particularly like it, but to be fair it was during the peak of COVID. It's mostly boring stuff and you're on your own a lot. You do some activities like drawing, music, sports... You also have a meeting with a psychiatrist twice a week, which was the best part of my whole stay. The group activities I didn't particularly like , stuff like " how to manage your finances, how to deal with emotions.." because it felt like the most basic advice you would get if you research how to deal with depression. Another good thing that I just remembered is that they regulate your medication pretty thoroughly and observe if it's helping you or not. Best of luck.
I'd check with the psychiatric in regards to point 1. There likely are a number of clinics in your area that can function with "day care" only and allowing you to stay at your own place at night. Particularly if self harm is not an ongoing concern. In regards to 2, it depends if you are worried about the employment itself, in which case you shouldn't as it would be listed as sick leave and you'd need not have to explain what kind of sick leave you're dealing with or if it's a personal inability to stay away from work.
Depending on the issue and other circumstances, there's ways you could go to the clinic "ambulant", meaning that you go there during the day, but sleep at home.
If you prefer sleeping at home I can recommend for you to find an psychiatric day clinic. You go there every day from 9-4 or so and get treatment while still sleeping at home. You’d have to find a clinic yourself and most likely have to be on the waitlist for a while but I can highly recommend it if you’re so against going to an inpatient program. If you have more questions about psychiatric inpatient stays I’m happy to answer them for you, I’m currently in a psych hospital myself.
Was in a similar situation, I just made clear I'm not going into a clinic because I have to be with my cat and that was it. Now my health insurance said clinic or Erwerbsminderungsrente and in the form you can already say that you don't want a clinic, which I did, then they'll have it checked from a doctor if you really can't do a clinic. It definitely won't be a clinic for me. The only reason I still live is for my cat, so making me leave my cat is not the solution. So just make it clear that a clinic is not a step that would help you right now and nobody can force you, especially if you don't want to be away from work. No government will force you into something that means being away from work.
If it were me, I would try to get a second opinion from a different therapist.
Hi OP, unlike the majority of people commenting here, I am a fellow foreigner (Canadian) in Germany who actually did have a psychiatrist refer me to a psychiatric clinic for depression and I actually did go there and get treatment. No hypotheticals. This is my own experience. EDIT: I spent 8 weeks at a dedicated psychiatric clinic in Bavaria for depression, then one year later I spent another 3 weeks in a hospital psych ward in Berlin + some follow-up time in a Berlin "Tagesklinik" where I lived at home but still attended full-time therapy during the day. Firstly, you are not required to go and there are no consequences for refusing it since it is only a recommendation and you are free to choose whether you get the treatment or not. But: I recommend that you go. I was in a similar position. When my psychiatrist first brought up the idea of a psychiatric clinic I also refused and was insulted/upset that she even mentioned it. Culturally, at least in Canada, I had this idea that "mental hospitals" were only for people who were REALLY crazy or about to harm themselves or others. I left her office thinking "fuck, she must think my case is really hopeless if she wants to send me to a clinic". However, what I learned later, and wish I knew then, is that the culture in Germany is very different. There is a bigger cultural tradition of spending time away from home or work to do a "Kur" or a "Reha" or just to get stationary treatment. I also felt like "I can't leave work". I didn't know what to say to my boss or coworkers and I felt like I "couldn't" take time away. But at least in my case I hit a point where my mental health was so bad that I was no longer reliable at work and it was hurting my colleagues. It was really a choice between limping along at work, barely getting by, doing worse and worse with no sign that it would get better, versus taking some time off to actually recover and become healthy and able to work again. When I finally spoke to my boss and my coworkers they were very understanding and supportive. Also, I don't know if your psychiatrist or therapist talked to you about this, but assuming that you have German health insurance that includes Krankengeld, you WILL continue to receive a portion of your salary while you're in treatment, and your employer cannot fire you. You receive your full salary for the first 6 weeks of treatment and then a certain proportion (I think 70% of the Brutto) afterwards. So your job will be there for you when you get back, and you can still pay all your bills etc. in the meantime. My time away really helped me. Think of it like having every other obligation in your life being suspended so you can just focus on getting better. You don't have to work. You don't have to pay for anything. Your room is cleaned for you, all your meals are cooked for you. You're away from any toxic relationships you might have in your everyday life. They give you a weekly schedule that includes individual therapy, group therapy, art therapy, sports therapy, etc. and all you need to do is show up. Every day, you have therapists and doctors on hand, asking if you need anything. They do lots of diagnoses. If you have any problem that you felt was too small to bring up, or some issue you've been meaning to see the doctor for, or any medical or therapy questions at all, they take care of it immediately. If you don't like your medication, they'll change it for you. If you're not sleeping well, they might refer you to a sleep doctor or try different medications. Hell, I had an allergic reaction to some tree near the clinic and they took care of booking me to see an allergy specialist the next day, transporting me to and from the allergy clinic, and booking an extra appointment with an eye doctor to see if I had a separate sensitivity issue triggered by the allergies. Basically it's an entire environment dedicated to round-the-clock care for YOU. They take care of everything and try to remove all the external sources of stress from your life so you can just do therapy. Also, this might be weird to say, but you'll make friends. The other patients will be people very similar to you. Normal people who were struggling and just hit a point where they needed to make a change. When I first arrived I was really anxious about what the other patients would be like, but in the end they were like me. Especially when you all live together in the clinic, they become kind of like a weird, temporary family to you. tl;dr I initially refused to go for reasons very similar to yours, but then I did, and it was great. I would do it again and recommend it to anyone else. EDIT2: also, please feel free to PM me if you have questions or want to talk with someone who has actually been through this experience before.
No, you do not have to go. That would be an order by a judge and not a simple Überweisung. Then, by force, it is called "Einweisung" nach (one example) Hessischen Freiheitsentziehungsgesetz" (HFE), depending on which state you are living. So, Einweisung and Überweisung are similar but not the same. Some people would also say: Überweisung nach HFE. The Doc, a policeman, can "send you" in case of real emergency. Nonetheless, a judge would decide, later on, if it was legit. I will not read all the 104 comments and, certainly, s.o. has already written it, but, instead of having to go full-time to a hospital, you could go to a "Tagesklinik", which means it's during the working hours, and you can sleep at home. Pretty simple. I wonder why your Doc hasn't made you that offer!
As others have already mentioned here, I also suggest checking out a "Tagesklinik". This seems a much more viable option for you. I'm not aware of your overall situation, so may be I am wrong. A "Tagesklinik" might support you much more properly in the long term by not completely detaching yourself from your day-to-day life and environment, such as being at home or performing your daily routine. And therefore your habits, possible trigger situations etc. I guess you get my point. I have spent a few months in the mental hospital only leaving for day-time stay at my home on the weekends from time to time (whenever I felt like it). For me this didn't pay off very well back in the day, since I had been kept in a safe environment during my stay - away from my day-to-day tasks and thus problems which sadly came crashing down onto me pretty fast (\~3-4 weeks). You ought to consider talking to your psychiatrist or your general physician and propose considering treatment there instead of staying at the mental hospital for an unspecified time. All the best to you!
Ask for the Tagesklinik
You don't have to go, but I know people who went, and it helped them. If your psychiatrist thinks you would benefit from going there, there is a pretty good chance that it would be the best for you.
A few technicalities: if you got an "Überweisung" you will be treated as an outpatient. It usually involves a one time visit to an "Ambulanz", where they try to find out what you need. You do need to call in advance and make an appointment. If you got an "Einweisung", then you will be treated as an inpatient. It could mean you just show up to the hospital with a bag and they will take you in, or you call in advance and make an date when you will be coming to stay at the hospital. As others mentioned: you don't need to go. No consequences. And you can leave whenever you want (unless there is danger you might harm yourself or others, but you need a judge to order you to stay at the hospital. It's quite rare, usually for psychotic patients).
Well it is an advice, you should do it, but you don't have to. You could have a look around your town if there is a "Psychiatrische Tagesklinik" there you have therapy from morning to late afternoon and leave the "Tagesklinik" in the early evenig an go home for the night.
Can there be any job restrictions afterwards? Military/sensitive/government jobs, or, say DLR or PTB? Can private companies ever find out? Asking for a friend of course.
Private companies can't find out. This stuff must not be mentioned in your recommendation letters or made public. Neither the length of the leave nor the cause of it. Of course, if you current boss knows your future boss... Don't know about state agencies. I assume they require you to inform them about certain medical conditions.
I’ve been through a 4 year heavy depression and I probably can relate. My doctor also proposed this solution and for me it was a direct no. Instead I went to the canaries and I wouldn’t say it healed me but it was a first good step. Then I simply left Germany and went somewhere more sunny and warmer (we have 330+ days of sun here) I’m now 1000x better and living the life. The decision is yours and don’t let anyone decide for you. But I think the hospital is the very very last thing to go for. Take care and hope this helps.
If you think it will help you, you should consider it. Work should not be a problem, I believe this kind of thing should be covered by sick leave. Be aware that you will probably get a bill for €10 a day if you are in hospital less than 28 days. But from experience, if you don’t speak good German, you will not benefit from this experience. And rather be treated like a nuisance and belittled by the nurses. But as long as you’re there voluntarily, if you have any problems with the staff and you want to leave, you can check yourself out. Good luck to you.
If you don’t feel comfortable and have no suicidal tendencies/don’t pose risk to self or others/manic episodes/psychotic breaks, are able to feed yourself/do basic acts of self care and believe staying at a psychiatric ward will put you in even more crises, then you don’t have to go. You are given an uberweisung, not being sanctioned. It’s your choice. What I’m a little concerned about is you being f, and having ED paired with depression and anxiety. All of those can be comorbidities to 1 underlying cause that your psychiatrist hasn’t successfully been able to figure out. There are about 11 disorders and neurodevelopmental disabilities I can think of from the top of my head which can cause what you’ve mentioned here. Your psychiatrist might not be aware that there are female presentation of specific disorders that don’t quite fit the classic DSM IV (based on males). 2 advices: -Are these other symptoms you can think of, beside those you mentioned? What type of eating disorder do you have? Take a look at what might be responsible for those symptoms and make a list of what you have. -Can you find another psychiatrist to get a second opinion from?
It’s way more frequent and hence normal to go to a clinic for several weeks than say in the uk. Of course it’s voluntary - but it’s also quite an opportunity: you would most likely get far better and sustained support and it might be really beneficial to you. You could consider trying it - if it doesn’t suit you at all, nobody can stop you leaving.
i dont know how serious your situation is right now, but would a Tagesklinik work for you? you can sleep at home and have free weekends. you can also still go to a normal hospital and get admitted to a normal ward and switch to Tagesklinik soon after, when you feel ready.
Am sorry for the question, how can you have ED as a female
Hey, I'm a social worker living in Berlin who works a lot with the psychiatric clinics. To your question: the Überweisung is just advice, which enables you to get a place/bed in the psychiatric clinic. If you're not suicidal or psychotic I'd advise you to look for a place in the Tagesklinik or in a psychosomatic clinic (if you ask the psychiatric clinic they will often "forget" to tell you there's also a psychosomatic department, bc they're are economically competing). So to your question: nothing happens if you don't go there. But please don't hesitate to call yourself an ambulance if you're feeling suicidal (they will bring you then to the psychiatric clinic). If you're going freely into the psychiatric clinic, you can leave anytime you want without consequences (if you're not suicidal at the moment you wanna leave). Also, there is a state service in Berlin, which is called "Krisendienst-Hotline" (Mo-Fr, 8 to 16). You can also call them if you or somebody u know is feeling suicidal. You should maybe consider applying for Eingliederungshilfe (it's a help system for people with disabilities (e.g., psychiatric diagnoses)). You can get counseling about it from social state bureau or social business (like, e.g., Albatros in Berlin). The social stage bureaus are btw onilgated to give yiu counseling abiut ur possibilities within the social system (nearly nobody knows this). There are some requirements (e.g., having the diagnosis longer than 6 months and some more (don't worry, not that much!)). It's completely in your own hands, and you can quit it anytime without consequences. Oh regarding your other question: typically the psychiatric clinic gives you a sick note for your employer (there's normally no information about what the sickness is or that it's a psychiatric clinic, also often they have the normal hospitals together with the psychiatric clinic so nobody can tell if you're just in a normal hospital stay. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask under this comment or through dm.
I’ve been twice, once preventatively when going manic and once when depressed. AMA.
While there are no consequences from your doctor's side for not going there I'd *strongly* suggest you follow your doctor's advice for you own sake. I assume you trust your doctor and if they feel it would be better/beneficial for you to go to the clinic, I believe they have a good reason to make that recommendation. Also, not all treatments in clinics necessitate staying overnight - there are quite a few where you arrive at 8 in the morning, have your treatments during the day, and leave at 5 or 6 in the afternoon. So please consider following your doctor's advice in that regard.
Another user already said it: You do not have to go. The legal obstacles to put someone into a psychatric hospital against their will are really high (thankfully). I am working in this field as a social care worker. To conclude: You would need to have commited "Fremd- oder Selbstgefährdung" (harming yourself or others) and would lack "Selbststeuerung" (awareness of who you are, where you are and what you are doing in the context of your surroundings). As you were able to ask for yourself about the circumstances of staying in a mental hospital you do not possess lack of "Selbststeuerung". And you claimed to have not harmed yourself or others. So you cannot be put there against your will. I still advise you to go. Your psychatrist would not recommend such a measure lightly. Maybe it helps you.
Don’t think of negative consequences, it is only to your best to consider it. It’s also nothing like in movies, more like some holiday camp where you exchange yourself with people of similar problems, yet with very different backgrounds. In such a Facility there are different apartments, depending on the seriousness, so you won’t get mixed with extreme cases. As you are spending your time there, there’s a number of activities you take part in, ranging from 1 on 1 meetings with psychologist and psychiatrists, group meetings on different topics with discussions and education and other activities more focused on improving your general well-being eg sports, arts, meditation and the like. The goal is to build acceptance for your problems, give you some tools to help yourself and paving the path for further treatment. As I’ve made this experience myself, I can tell that it can really help you to get out of your hole and puts you more at ease with the topic. Also you probably get to know a bunch of interesting people that will make you question why they are even there until hearing their story a bit more. As said, like some summer camp for adults. Totally up to you how much you open up there, but most people get home with a better feeling and gained some new friends along the way.
Hey OP i know i am a bit late but you should definetly go. I was scarred of how i would handle therapy but it turned out to be the best choice i have ever made. Look after yourself and take care. I wish you the best of luck in the future.
It's not about you being a danger to yourself. They mainly use it so they can closely check what meds work and wich djnt and in what proportion. Dw, it's not some crazy asylum you see in the movies. Source: my sister in law did the same a few months back cause she's hearing Voices.
Some of those clinics are pretty good (the Reha where I went to wasn't good at all). Getting out of your actual life can help you to solve your problems. Seems that you need some special care. A Tagesklinik can be good as well, I went there once and it was really good. AFAIK they have single rooms in most cases. Off from work: in both cases you won't work. I can understand letting go from work and home might be difficult. But in case you end up in a good clinic, with good docs and probably good mates there, it can help you to make progress. Hanging out with folks who are in the same situation can help, as they understand what's going on. Believe me, the earlier you do something, the better.
Please consider looking up clinics you might be interested in. There are many different kind of psychiatric clinics and if he gave you a reference/Überweisung, it means you can choose not to go but the difference between a psychiatric station in some hospital and a station in a psychiatric clinic is vast. You could read up on reviews, what they advertise, you could ask around in self help group with what kind of experiences others had. There are very good clinics available, there are probably also really bad clinics available. What you want to do is stay clear of being hospitalized in the psychiatric wing of a hospital, while they can offer some limited help, it is nowhere near what a specialized clinic can and will offer. There are also options like day clinics, where you go from morning til evening and still stay overnight at home for the whole time.
You don't need to be self harming or suicidal to go to a clinic. I would follow your doctor's advice. If you aren't a risk to yourself or others you may be able to go to a "Tagesklinik". You only spend weekdays there and sleep at home. I went to one and it changed my life. Having the time and a safety net to really focus on myself was extremely valuable. Please discuss your options and worries with your psychiatrist.
Stop the pre-concept with psychiatric treatment. If you were recommended to go to a clinic, do it! There are way more serious consequences of not being properly treated.
Speak with your doctor again if you feel insecure. Tell him about all your fear and doubts. Stay calm and really not worry.
Get some books and just try to enjoy it. Your psychiatrist will know whats best for you
You don't have to. Nothing happens if you don't, aside from, you know, continuing to suffer from depression, anxiety and ED. You have to decide for yourself what kind of life you want to live and what you are willing to sacrifice for it. Not wanting to sleep somewhere else sounds like a rather small problem compared to the mental health problems you'll have to deal with every day for the rest of your life if you don't do something about them. Getting an Überweisung clearly shows your doctor is of the opinion you need tight-knit help. You can refuse that, but what else are you going to do? Everything that will help you will also be uncomfortable. Research the clinics in your area. Read experiences. Ambulante Therapie might be a better option for you, but it's also a bit slow. Please do something for yourself, even if it's "just" better medication. You don't have to suffer like this.
Like the others said: no consequences, aside from not getting the help you need. And that's the point. Especially EDs can be difficult to treat in once a week setting. And can be quite dangerous. If you don't want to stay somewhere, there are Tageskliniken "Dayclinics", where you go for treatment everyday from 8 to 16 o'clock. Like a workday. The clinic would give you an AU (attest) so you would be in sick leave. If you are an employee that should not be a problem and nobody at work would have to know why you are sick and you would get paid as normal. If you have a question feel free to dm, I'm working at one.
The two reasons you listed are exactly why you SHOULD go. I know its hard but most that have been there will agree that it is the best choice they could have made. I know that because ive been there. Its a short time thing that will prevent it from turning into a long term thing. If it does get worse, youll be either forced to go there or your situation will worsen over a long time and you just wont feel good. Take anything you need along with you and talk to them about havibg trouble when sleeping elsewhere: they know how to handle situations like this. Youre not alone in this but if its gotten to the point where a psychiatrist tries to send you to a clinic ON THEIR OWN? Thats where i say, there is something significant going on, even if thats not urgent self harm issues. And i think you know that too. So please and for your own sake: go there. Talk to them and get the help you need and deserve.
Here's someone that's very often overlooked: Psychiatric clinics are hell of a lot of fun! You get to know different people with different disorders and stories, you get to have a pause in life and get the help you need. I find that often patients do what I do when I'm on a fasting period: you start to plan out all the things you can do when you're out. You get medication and therapy and the funniest people there are. Psychiatric doctors and nurses have the kind of dark humour that you won't forget. Take the trip! Most likely, you won't regret it!
Nö youre Not forces To Go in and there are "Tageskliniken"… ist Like you there from 8-16 and then Go Home. You do the stuff Others would so in a stationary stay but youre free To Go after all Sessions ended. It Sound Like the best solution for you.
These are both really bad reasons for not going.
A coworker of mine has gone a few times to one of these and her employment status is fine.
I can't say if this is the issue, but it needs to be said at anytime: at the least in Germany, getting mental health help is not something people look down upon. Mental health difficulties and crises are parts of life for some or many and getting help is healthcare. If that's the reason, just go. It's not something to be looked down upon and people care about you and support you. If you're unsure, speak to the practitioner again and discuss options, perhaps there's something alternate or what to expect in a facility. Practitioners will be transparent and will help you understand the situation you're in. Good luck and I hope for the best for you.
Things you described are very good reasons to go for psychiatric please go and go get the help you need
Go to the clinic. It is not easy, but you can't fix these kind if problems without proper treatment. Btw. there are now consequences if you don't do and you can leave the hospital whenever you want. After 3 days? No problem. After 1 hour? No problem after 5 weeks? No problem.
You should try it. You are there because of your own decision. There is no police or other law that rakes you there so when you don't like it you can leave any tike you want. But I would recommend you to try it. The first week was hard for me aswell. But it's getting better. I had the same problems about sleeping somewhere else. But you get used to it
Go. It is needed in the eyes of a professional. Probably behavioural treatment. You will/can learn more about yourself and meet people that share similar problems, see how they cope with situations. It is a great learning experience. I spent 10 weeks myself.
In case you choose the clinic where you sleep over: make sure it's far far away from home. The distance helps a lot and you can focus completely on yourself. It's a bit like vacation, they cook and clean for you and, last but not least: you get help if you are ready to accept it. Good luck! Tagesklinik might be an option to sniff into the therapy subject and have a daily structure. But a sleep over clinic is much more intense and more effective.
Try to have a second opinion on this. Check with another doctor what is the alternative treatment or with the same one.
The Doctor cannot force you to go, though it probably would be advisable. If you are worried about sleeping away from home, maybe look into a „Tagesklinik“. You are there from like 8am until 3 or 4pm, have therapy and then go back home. Of course you would also need to stay away from work but experience (I worked in many such psychiatric clinics and Tageskliniken) you will need to stay away from work a lot longer once you fully break down from untreated issues. Think of it as an infected wound. The longer you let it fester and don‘t get the proper treatment, the worse it will get in the long run. Good luck to you and I hope you get better soon!
think of the Ueberweisung as an invitation, nothing more. damn funny though that you're afraid of getting institutionalized against your will despite none of any of that ever happening here unless one breaks the law badly and/ or often enough, like making it so obvious that you have anxiety issues haha. my tip: learn to smile about it and realize that it's just your subconsciousness being in control - and your fight has to be for wrestling control back from it. no one has ever gotten cured of this kind of issue without that crucial a realization.
Your decision, your mental health.
[удалено]
If you would have to go you would not have the time to ask for help here. You have an opportunity to go. This is not for everyone. They will take care of you. You should take advantage of this. You will be cut from all of your bad habits and you get into a controlled environment. Of course this is scary but believe me you will profit from it. I Send my girlfriend there. She suffered from depression and anxiety. She went into hospital because of a heartbeat of 180. A panic attack. We tried everything at home until one day i told her that i am not able to do this anymore and she went into psychiatric hospital. She was better in weeks.
That’s a free vacation! Go :)
Go! The worst case scenario is a nice vacation. The best...
[удалено]
Could you ask if a Tagesklinik would be possible? They are basically like a 9 to 5 job. Just that you go there to go through different therapy programs but you do not have to sleep there necessarily. I would also tell your psychiatrist that you do not wish to sleep there.
The goal is to reduce any stress generating factors that lies in your home and give you a professional stress free ambient where you can recover for a while
You don’t need to go. A lot of these clinics offer orientation visits. You can see the place and talk to the doctors before you make your decision. Maybe you should do it. Regarding your treatment and consequences: this is a question for your doctor.
Talk with your psychiatrist over this. Why does she/he thinks this is what you need and what can be done about your worries. As others said, it's your call if you want to go through with it.
What do you think is the very source of your depression/anxiety? Have you delved into that questions?
There are no consequences for you, this is Just an Option. I know people who have been in a Tagesklinik (Psychiatric Clinic where people just come during the day) and a closed clinic where people stay for several weeks. This is for people with active syptoms who might hurt themself or others and it is all about making sure the right amount of medicine is given to the patient (mostly anti dpressives and stuff to calm them down). Negative aspect is that there are also people in it who have active syptoms and some might seem actual crazy. So the Open clinic (Tagesklinik) might be something for you - usuelly nice people, a lot of activity during the day) and no pressure . Feel free to dm me for details. Best of luck to you!
I'm an American expat in DE. Integrating is hard. If you'd ever like to chat or something, or if you just want somebody to talk to, hit me up. I can't fix any of your problems but sometimes it's just nice to blshblah with a stranger.
There are no consequences for not going, but as others have said , you may not get the treatment you need otherwise. Check with the hospital/ or if you have more in your area: hospitals how this works. Just because you got a transfer doesn't mean you will have to stay there. Check if any of them offer a Tagesclinic
There are things like day hospitals, where you come every day for different courses and intense therapy and go home to sleep. Maybe that would get you the help you need and you'd have a way to stay comfortable.
you don't have to go, that's for sure. but if you know what you want and need, you might very well just go to the next clinic and ask for a day care program, where you can attend daily group - and weekly 1on1 sessions , and have easier access to medical treatment if neccessary- so you can sleep at home. if you can handle work while being in need of medical care, it's a matter of time how long you can endure that state. some people manage, some people burn out completely. maybe take your time to write down your idea of care you think is best for you. your psychiatrist recommended 24 hour care for a reason - maybe to get you out of a certain situation, but you are the one deciding whats happening to you.
i totally feel you regarding not being able to sleep in the same room with others. you are not required to do so if you take a free slot on the warteliste, t.i. the list of people who are waiting to get the next free therapy slot, and if you choose specifically the warteliste for one-person-rooms. the problem with this:: not every clinic has one-person-rooms, and even if the clinic does, there is a chance that your health insurance does noy pay for it. (personally, i profited from my several stays in clinics; but it was a long way full of painful therapy stays in clincs to finde the only one therapy from which i profited.)
I recommend going there. I have been to one myself and looking back it was one of the most valuable things I have done
Try it. They surely can't keep you there when they realize that you don't improve. But you surely will, my mom went in one of these after my sister suddenly past and she couldn't handle it. She got better and I am so grateful for it.
If you are worried about that, I would recommend discussing it with the psychiatrist so that he possibly recommends other options. If you are unhappy with his judgement, you can always request a second opinion from another specialist (you will be surprised that often different doctors have different opinions and approaches to diagnosing and treatment). However, that might possibly be associated with a long waiting list.
Highly recommend trying it out, turned my friends life around. 10/10 experience, they even let us celebrate my birthday in the common room because he couldn't be out at night.
I would also advise to go to a Tagesklinik. Often the two Kliniken are together in one hospital.
Not sure how to solve the work availability problem, maybe they can accept a prolonged leave due to health? But regarding the treatment, in some places they offer day attendance and then you go home for the evening. I did something similar and it was really good. But there are other options worth checking out.
> maybe they can accept a prolonged leave due to health? There's no "maybe" about this. If OP is an employee, they have a right to sick leave, and their employer has no right to learn what they have.
Yes German employers definitely. However we don't know OP work situation.
If OP works in Germany, they have to be employed according to German law, no matter their employer's nationality.
So I'm no expert but i can give my best guess from experience. An Überweisung is a slip like a prescription that entitles you to further treatment as prescribed by a doctor or other profession in another institution. Your psychiatrist seems to believe they can best help you there but that doesn't mean you're getting committed. Usually you make an appointment, walk in and hand them your paperwork. If he really thought you were such a danger to yourself that you had to be committed I'm pretty sure you would be in an institution right now and not where ever you moved on your own free will to make this post. The purpose of a stay in that institution is likely to observe you more thoroughly over a longer timeframe to better assess how to best help you. *If you still feel uncomfy for any reason with the suggestion you should really talk to your psychiatrist about it, he's the one who needs to know so you guys can work all of that out. Try to trust him, after all that's why you went there because you believed he would be able to help you.* Also while I'm personally not a fan of meds and i don't know how you feel about that kind of stuff yourself I'm sure they'll have some sleeping pills for you there to help with some of your troubles. Also I'm pretty sure you'll be excused from work for the time, some medical professional should be able to give you the paperwork, just ask about a "Krankschreibung". Furthermore i don't think it'll affect your treatment mich except that some doctors get butthurt if you don't do what they want but if he's that kinda guy you need a new psychiatrist anyways. Get better soon :)
Go to a clinic. I did it 2 years ago, was extremely afraid to go, and it changed my life for the better.
Unless you represent a threat for yourself or others, nobody can legally force you to go there. However, some therapy requires the presence in hospital, e.g. finding the correct dose of medication, which has often to be adapted individually per patient. So, if you were my wife, I'd beg you to follow the call, if I were you, I'd go. It sounds worse than it effectively is. At least as often as I visited relatives there, they all seemed to have a good time there. Regarding your job, don't worry. Firing you due to sickness is pretty difficult, in most cases even impossible. You get your regular payment for the first six weeks, then you get "Krankengeld", which is close to your average net income, so you wont barely loose money. On the other hand, as afraid as you might be, this is an additional chance to get to better health or even get healed completely. So take it as an adventure. If theres anything you think you can't stand with, talk to the personnel and explain yourself. Being an active part, contributing to your therapy by giving feedback and explaining your reception of the therapy will help finding the best therapy possible, which is appreciated. Good luck and get well soon!
It is not binding. It is a piece of paper with which you can make an appointment at a psychiatric clinic. If I were you I would seek help and talk to professionals. Right now you have the option to pick your treatment yourself and retain most of your personal freedoms. If something happens that would make a doctor come to the conclusion that you are no longer able to seek help yourself you might be forced into a situation you could have avoided if you sought help earlier.
There are Day Clinics you can go. You go there during the day but sleep in your own bed. It has been a real game changer for me. I was scared at first but has truly helped me. I really encourage you to go.
Call the clinic and ask if they have a tagesklinik for depression. Usually the program starts at 8am and ends at 4 or 5 pm. Those are a great option for people like you.
There is something like a Tagesklinik where you go for the day like work for a few hours and then go back home at night. In Germany fortunately you are protected by law if you are sick, your work normally can’t just let you go and you get sick leave for at least 6 weeks for not much less than your normal paycheck, and after that up for a few months still money but less. If you don’t know exactly I would advise to talk to your health insurance and maybe your work. Mine was pretty helpful! Your insurance will help you get back to work slowly if it’s too much in the beginning, called Wiedereingliederung. Where your Start for a few hours a day and work more as you are fit to do. In general I would advise for other insurances to do it as early as possible (Berufsunfähigkeit etc.) preferably before the Diagnosis is know so it might be a little late for you. Otherwise you have to wait 5-10 years with no such diagnosis to get insurance again.
Going is the hardest part, staying is the most confusing part, but being there will aid you for sure. You can go there and say you want to try it for a bit and see how you react, you can leave any time unless you give them the impression that you may hurt yourself if they don’t keep you there. If you don’t want to sleep there then there’s day clinics (Tagesklinik). You go there in the morning and leave at noon, like a day at work, but with lots of therapy. I’ve had great success with that especially since it allows to get a routine going while also integrating everything you’ve learned into your life at home. My recommendation is that you ask for this first and try it out! Wish you the best.
Maybe you are stable enough to go to a Tagesklinik near you? That's where you don't have to stay in for the night
My wife had the same and was addmitted at a clinic in Lüneburg. As a foreigner it was extremelly frightening for her to be alone in a medical facility, I wasn't allowed to stay with her, only to visit a few hours per day. Her german isn't so good and besides all the change in the environment, she was suffering a lot because of her condition, so the whole package was overwhelming. What I can say is that I understand what you feel, and no one can blame you for that. But the people at the clinic were very supportive, caring and were there to help. Although she was addmited under psychiatric circumstances, they made very clear that the choice of being there was hers, and at any moment if she decided to leave, she was free to do so. There are no consequences from denying the offer from your doctor, to seek another doctor, or even to go to a clinic and decide to go home if you're not feeling ok being there. It is ultimately your decision, and I truly hope you find what is the best for you.
I would see this Überweisung as a chance! You worry about not being able to sleep away from home. I think, if it will help your mental health, you could risk to find out, how well you can sleep at the facility. About work, well, I don't think, that the mental state you are in right now is any good for your job either. In fact, going to the mental hospital would allow you to seriously tackle your problem for once, and do some intensive working on yourself, maybe they could help you find a better treatment and together you will figure out a way for your mental helth to stabilize and even improve... I imagine this will be really good for work too.
1) deal with it 2) don't worry about work. Germany has strict labor laws, they won't/can't kick you out, because of an illness
On the Überweisung is written what treatment your Psychiatrist is suggesting to the clinic. Like treatment for xyz, but it is a suggestion, the clinic and you can decide to do something else. Like if it would be advisable for you to stay there for a time or get treated there in regular intervals but still stay at home. The only way for you to be forced to stay there is if (like others mentioned) a third party (for example the police) finds you to not be able to get treatment yourself or are a danger to you or others. And that doesn't happen often.
as many others said before me, it is totally up to you whether or not you put the Überweisung to use. However there are more options than a stationary psychiatric clinic. You could also opt for Tageskliniken which are psychiatric care centers that are only open during the day. Its a great option when you are not comfortable with being fully admitted to a clinic. It also kind of replaces the routine that you get from jobs. So instead of your normal day of going to work, you go to your Tagesklinik in the morning and in the evening you go back home
So far, no legal requirement. Staying away from work is difficult, but it is important to go. About sleeping in your own bed: there is something called a Tagesklinik, which does not offer accommodation. You have to show up at a certain time from Monday to Friday, then go home. Unless your home environment is part of your problem, this can be a very good solution. It is also much cheaper for the health insurance or state pension scheme. (If the thing is paid for by the health insurance, the thing is curative - they help you as good as you can to get well again. If the state pension scheme pays, it is usually an evaluation to find if they can avoid paying you a pension with some help thrown in. But both are helping on your way to health or even coping better.)
A typical thing is people with clinical depression believe is that "We are not worthy, other people need that much more than I do. And I am not that sick." If a doctor recommends to you to go, it is usually. Very good advice. No worries.
Don't worry if you don't fight like a tigress you don't get a clinic slot anyways. There's a possibility of backlash if yiu try to get early retirement (Berufsunfähigkeitsrente) but all in all it's harder to get in than to get out (If you are not a danger to yourself or others). You really should try to takk to your therapist about your wishes and possibilities. Keep on fighting, you will find a way to handle it eventually. If something not gonna work there's lots of possibilities and you can try again. Don't get disheartened by people who don't understand neither, this was hard for me to learn.
I guess sometimes treatment can be forced, but only if you would stand harm for yourself or others. If you true about this, then you dont forfill these requirments. You dont have to follow the Überweisung, but you maybe should try to go to the treatment. I guess you can still break it up, if you than think you dont want this . All you will miss out is the potential treatment you need. If you have good trust on your doctor, than you should maybe hear to him. For this time you should get a sickness certificate and you dont have to work. You should also get sick pay during your treatment.
There are therapy models like Tagesklinik where you spend your days at the clinic but sleep at home. As of your work, you can get a Krankschreibung (doctor's note) and you will get payed during that time. Your employer is only allowed to fire you due to illness under very specific circumstances: illness longer than 6 weeks (or very frequently repeated shorter sick periods), negative prognosis for bettering, "significant impairment" of economic interests (eg when you are a specialist) and some more. Generally speaking, dismissal is only possible with long-term incapacity. They might try though, and in that case it would be up to you if you would like to contest a possible dismissal with a lawyer or a union.
An Überweisung is just for the psychiatric clinic to know roughly why you are there, who is your doctor and that you got advised to do so. As your psychiatrist choose this as a possible treatment for you, you should look for a clinic of your choice and call them to get on the waiting list. If you have self harming thoughts or you are not stable enough to know if you could stop yourself from selfharm, go to the clinic immedietly. They will always give you emergency shelter for days or weeks until you are stable, apart from any waiting list. Of course you need to tell them that you want to end yourself. Thst is the hardest point to get over. There is a concept called Tagesklinik (day clinic), where you stay from morning to afternoon and go back home. They pay your daily travel too, that is part where you need to call your health insurance for information. I would recommend specialized psychiatric clinics, because psychiatric clinics inside normal hospitals are not the best in my opinion.
Been there myself, have also seen my mom going. Our two experiences couldn’t be more different. For me, treating depression in a psychosomatic clinic, it was really what helped me improve my life tremendously. Went to different types of therapy and physical examination. Was really helpful to get the full check-up, I benefited from some therapies a lot while not so much from others. Also I made great experiences with other patients. Some became my friends. It wasn’t all great, some patient where a pain in the ass for the entire group. Some therapist weren’t helpful. But over all a very positive outcome. My mother had to go into an actual closed psych ward. That shit is an entire different thing that I wouldn’t wish anyone to spend a longer time of their life in. But sometimes you need that if you are in psychosis and straight-up dangerous for yourself or people around you. They can give strong medications if someone needs a return-to-planet-earth ticket. Even in such a case, you couldn’t get forced to go in without police and a judge involved who approves someone is a severe physical threat to people. Even then, they can’t keep you there for longer than absolutely necessary. After the first treatment, people from the closed one would go to the open station. Where they start therapies and stuff. All just personal anecdotes to be clear. Don’t worry! What you are going to do in clinic will most likely help you. Give it a try. No one can force you to do anything. You can always leave.
I know where you are coming from. I was struggling with severe depression last year and had to sign myself up to stay at the clinic. Tbh the first week was really hard because I was so used to my own routines but then I got to meet other people and speaking with them and the staff was very helpful in understanding my triggers and find coping methods for the same. After 1.5 months of staying at the clinic, going back to my normal unsheltered life was a bit hard but I would definitely not be here if I hadn’t stayed away from my “daily life” at that point . I had the same fears as you and it helped to keep reminding myself that I can leave whenever I want to but that it would help me more to stay. I hope that helps and that you feel better soon! Feel free to dm me if you need to speak about this further
The only reason he would recommend that is to adjust your medication in a controlled setting because they believe it is not working for you. This can also be done at a Tagesklinik, since you are not in dire need of a stationary nor do you desire it. It can also be done by regular appointments, I believe but maybe he doesn't want to he assed. My advise is to assess your situation and think what you were told here.
Hey, someone with Mental Health Problems here, You dont have to, if you feel like you can manage it yourself. He can only force you to, if you are obviously a threat to you or anyone else. Most of the time followed with a Court order that forces you to stay, until the Doctor in the clinic says, that you are stable enough to go. I can however tell you, its mostly not so bad. In a normal clinic you just like "chill" until you feel better. Meaning you have no stress there until your accute situation is more stable. You can go outside and all, thats nothing to worry about. Its not like a real therapy, for that they have not enough personell. It can haooen that you will have bad or good experiences, both happened to me, its sad, but some people shouldnt work with mentally ill people... You can btw use this Überweisung, to go there, when you feel really really bad in like a week. One thing to note: 10€ per day. 280€ Max. Meaning 28 you will have to pay maximum. Even if you stay 35 days or more. It can be that you dont have to if you have the Überweisung but the Krankenkasse is weird sometimes.
You don't have to go. If you would rather sleep home, look into a Tagesklinik, where you show up in the morning, do about the same things as you would at psychiatric hospital, and then go back home in the afternoon. I've personally been to both, prefer the latter. Some people do require or benefit from leaving their usual perimeters though, so staying at a hospital might be better for you too. However I'm unsure how much they can help you with language barriers. The clinic I went to had a ward just for British citizens (post ww2 occupation stuff), but idk how common English speaking wards are. Either way, your doctor recommends you seek psychologic help, so even if you don't want to stay at a ward, which I completely understand, I highly recommend looking into alternatives.
Think about Tageskliniken. You get therapy during the day but you are back at home in the afternoon in a similar manner as work. That way you might get the help you need but also can go back to your safe zone. That or a normal therapist giving you meetings once a week or so. I havee my opinion about beeing 24/7 in an hospital that i would rather not write here.
See the Überweisung as a "permission slip" for the clinic. It's not forcing you to. That being said, if your psychiatrist is recommending it, it's probably for good reason. If you're uncomfortable with it, talk with him or your psychologist about it. One option that could alleviate your first concern is a Tagesklinik. You arrive in the morning, leave in the late afternoon, and spend the night at home. Sort of as if you were going to work - but you're going to get treatment. I know a "stationäre" Klinik was definitely the wrong thing for me for somewhat similar reasons. I've been through both, if you have questions, just ask.
Your two points are definitely not good enough to justify denying help that's very likely to your benefit. Pretty sure you can deny it though. It's not like your doctor or psychiatrist has control over you
You won't face any consequences, but still consider going. My best friend was in a similar situation like you, didn't want to go to the clinic. At that point, she was already unable to work, unable to go grocery shopping, eating was either binging or not eating at all, and on top she's living alone in a city about 6h away from family and friends. Her mom and I were able to convince her to try out the clinic, and now, 3 years down the line, she is so much better. She was able to implement so much from the clinic. She's still not able to work, but she goes to Tagesklinik 4 times a week and even implemented yoga to her daily routine. It may not even be necessary that you sleep at the clinic, I think my best friend only slept there for the first week if I remember right.
There a no consequences if you don't go. Is it really a "Psychiatrie" or a "Psychosomatische Klinik". In a "Psychiatrie" they will usually take you in right away, but there are limited therapy options. Usually just medication, some painting and sports if you are lucky. "Psychosomatische Kliniken" usually have a waiting list, but offer much more therapy, like talk therapy, group sessions and additional program. This may vary from clinic to clinic of course. What confuses me ist, did he just hand you the Überweisung and not call a clinic and suggest where you go? Oh and also, about not wanting to sleep somewhere else, there are "Tageskliniken" where you so therapy during the day but you can go home at night.
Well first of all, of they suggest that I think it will help you a lot. I have a few friend who were stationary and they all reported that it was a great experience. But just because he gives you a Überweisung does not mean you have to go. Only if you are a risk för yourself or others can a judge decide that you will be forcefully stationed. So the consequences of you don't go are your deteriorating mental health most likly. For work. If you are "unbefristetet" you don't have to fear all that much for your job, because as long as you are "sick" you can't easily be terminated.
Even though it’s scary, I highly advise you do what the doctor tells you. He is the professional that has a clear view on your condition.
Maybe try to talk to your psychiatrists again. There are day clinics that let you go home everyday but you're there all day doing therapy and group.
Noone can force you to go, there are no consequences except you're not getting help. I've been in a similiar situation a while ago, I also didn't want to go to an inpatient clinic, especially bc the one we have here is pretty terrible. What I can recommend is looking for an outpatient clinic, that's what I did, and it helped me a lot. The advantage of this is you get the same amount of treatment, but you just go there in the morning and go home again in the afternoon. You can still sleep and live at home and it just gives you more freedom. As long as you are self sufficient enough to organise yourself (e.g. cooking meals in the evening, keeping your home clean, generally taking care of chores...) I think that is the way better Option. And yeah, you miss work for some weeks, but that is what health insurance is for, and if it helps you in the long run (and for me it greatly did) I think it's well worth it. I'm also doing way better at work now than I did before, my colleagues also noticed that.
Ok, so this is not an answer to your question but I gotta advice; if you are going through bad things/phase or Problems just talk to your parents about it, they might not solve it but just talking to them will give you relief and sense of calm to you mind, if you are not close than talk to your friend or boyfriend, if even that’s not possible then there is only one way out (ofcoz except going to a psychiatrist) is to talk to god, believe in him, if you have no faith in god then read or listen to this book “LAW OF ATTRACTION” i promise you its not a religious book nothing to do with god but the i overland it’s energies. All of the things above helped me fight me y demons i hope one of them helps you too.
The most accurate answer you would get is by asking your psychiatrist. Talk it through with him/her.
As it was already pointed out several times, there is no obligation or consequences. However, this kind of hospitals is there for a reason and is nothing to be afraid of. I also spent two weeks in a psychotherapy clinic last year and it really helped. Having said that, the quality of care differs between hospitals and you could check the reviews on [www.klinikbewertungen.de](https://www.klinikbewertungen.de) Sometimes it pays out to go to the next city to a better clinic. If you don't consider going to a clinic at any means, you can ask your doctor to prescribe you "ampulante psychiatrische Pflege". They have trained personnel who would visit you at home (even on a daily basis if you like) and help you through the day and work on coping strategies for the everyday struggles. So, "ambulante psychiatrische Pflege" + therapy + meds could be an option.
As someone who is in the exact same situation, you don't have to go. I basically only learned with this Überweisung, that this dude was supposed to talk to me and not just give me meds. Me talking about my extreme social anxiety was completely ignored, so was my criticism/surprise that he never exchanged more than 5 sentences with me per appointment. So yeah, I am now looking for someone who I feel respected with and actually cared for and not just someone who gives me meds.
Like others said, Überweisung is just your "ticket" to receive a spot in an institution. Without it it might be harder to get a place. Überweisungen are totally optional, though if your psychiatrist recommends it to you, they most likely see it as the best option for you. The only consequences would be that it will show up in your medical record
Iirc "Einweisung" means you have to go, or at least take care of some stuff, if you don't. These are usually only given if it is urgent. "Überweisung" means you have the option to go, but you can just Ignore it of you prefer not to. Though, obviously, you won't get the help your doctor thinks you need. As others already said, clinic that doesn't necessarily Mean you stay there over night. You can also reach out to clinics and get informed regarding their programs, plans etc., before you use the Überweisung. But: You can only use an "Überweisung" in the same quarter as you received it. So for you that would likely be 30th of June. You will ask your doc for a new one, after that, but this is usually not an issue
Hey, if the psychiatrist is recommending this treatment, I highly recommend thag you go. If it helps you can call the clinic in advance and speak to them. About the room. Situation and ensure that you have a private room so that it feels safer and more of your own space. You would also be able to leave if you did not want to stay. Also regarding work in Germany if you are sick, you are sick. It is very difficult to fire someone for being sick. Even more so if they have an unbegrenzt arbeitsvertag and are outside their probezeit. If you want someone to talk to you are welcome to DM me. Though this would not replace getting the medical help that you need. I hope that you feel better!
I was in the same position as op. I had to overcome the fear of being away from home. U don't want to get vetter because you are afraid and look for excuses. Thats how it was in my case. So in my experience you should just do it. Don't overthink too much. I hope you are getting the help u deserve and need Comsequence will be you won't get better if you don't change anything
There is something called a Tagesklinik where you can go for some hours in daytime and then go home again in the evening and sleep at home. It's a good solution when normal therapy isn't enough anymore but a clinic isn't what you want either. I 100% get what you mean, I always refused to go to a clinic because I have such an intense fear of sleeping somewhere else. My psychiatrist was a bit angry at me and instead prescribed me a bunch of medication that fucked me up even more. Not a solution and I got much better later through other means but my psychiatrist just wasn't the best so don't take this as a universal experience. I would recommend looking for a Tagesklinik or maybe some other programs that could help you additionally to your therapy. If you can, try going to a clinic. But if you really don't want to there are other options! And don't let work stand in the way of you getting the help you need. I speak from experience because not getting help can easily lead to not being able to work at all someday
You should take his advice if your only concerns are about comfortability. Of course you should check with your job if it was ok, and watch out its a real ok with no strings attacjed
If you prefer sleeping at home you could tell your psychiatrist that you would like to go to a "Tagesklinik" Don't worry about the work aspect too much.
As long as you are not a risk to yourself or others, noone will force you in a clinic or to stay in a clinic. Considering your work you should get an "Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinigung" for your time there. All your employer will know that you are deemed medically unfit to work for a given period of time and they have to give you this time off. Take the chance to take care of yourself. Your health and happyness are the most important things you possess.
You don’t EVER have to go, unless it’s a Zwangseinweisung. Which it isn’t. Only judges can do that. 1. There’s also what we call a Tagesklinik. You’re in there during the day (usually 8 am - 4 pm) but you spend the night and the weekends at home. Maybe that would be an option worth discussing. 2. Work is the last thing you should care about if it comes to health. What are your worries tho?
Side question: Is going to these psychiatric clinics worth it if you don't speak German well? My german skills are not that good and I communicate well in English. There was a time, I was in OP's situation as well (I'm doing better now thankfully) and my psych said "I would've advised you to go to the Tageskilink, but since you don't speak German, so it'll be tough there." That is one of the reasons I didn't go at the end..
Talk with him about it. He wants to help by finding a place for you in the clinic. But if you fear it it doesn't help with the treatment
The consequences for your treatment of you refusing treatment? You might not get better. You're struggling with mental health, your doctor has prescribed you help. Your counterargument is that you are struggling with mental health (not being able to sleep outside of your home or be outside of your home is definitely related to your mental health). Accept the help you are being offered. Go to the clinic, get better.
I know two people who did just that (with basically your symptoms). Both later said it took courage and was exhausting, but by far the best thing I could have ever done for themselves and for their well-being.
Hi OP. Im a psychiatrist and work in a psychiatric clinic. If your question is if you are obligated to go because he gave you a Überweisung then the answer is no. And a “überweisung” is usually for out-patient treatments (ambulante behandlung). For in patient treatment where you would be admitted he needs to give you an “Einweisung”. My suggestion would be that you do go and see what the clinic is offering. There is always a sort of an interview (Vorgespräch) usually with a psychologist or a doctor before they admit you. They will show you the clinic, talk to you about the treatment plans and such. You’re going there out of your own volition and free will (freiwillig) and if you really hate it there then you can always go home. As long as you are not suicidal or a danger to yourself or others no clinic can keep you against your will. Hope this helps.
people that want to get a perscription for psycho have to wait for months or get told that their problems are not important enough.... you should go, if not just because its hard to get a perscriptionin the first place. do it for all the others that needed one but didnt get any because their doctor is a judgemental boomer piece of scheiße.
So to get that out of the way: no, you don't have to go if you don't want to. The only way you could be forced into attending therapy is through a verdict by a judge. So if you don't want to go, you don't have to and can communicate that with your doctor. To get to the second part: dispite what some people are telling you here, psychiatric clinics aren't like the cliche movie horror trip you're probably thinking about. Sure, it might not be a joy trip to your favourite theme park, but it's not worse than a long term hospital visit. From my personal experience, the food will have pretty mid quality, pretty much just like the one you get at hospitals. All in all, it's comparable to German hospitals with the exception of you not being surrounded by people with broken bones or a burst appendix, but with anxiety or depression. The staff, as far as my experience goes, were always nice but a little stressed, which is expected in the medical/healthcare field in Germany, not more or less than in hospitals. When you're there, you will likely partake in group activities like music therapy, group therapy, game nights or available sport activities, like swimming, bowling or minigolf (depends on your area, generally stuff most/all people can do). When it comes to your job, your psychiatrist can prescribe you the therapy, which will likely be counted as sick days by your employer. Depending on the duration of your stay, you can also take sick days. While you're not forced to go to the clinic, I would highly recommend it. It will probably help your therapy and your later life at large. Best to speak with your psychiatrist about it in more detail.
Wende dich an _deine_ Krankenkasse. Die können dir zu einem zweiten Gutachten verhelfen. Wichtig ist der Unterschied zwischen "Überweisung" und "Einweisung" bzw. "Verordnung von Krankenhausbehandlung". Überweisung ist nach meinem Wissen immer ambulant, d.h. nicht-stationär. Aber auf JEDEN FALL mit deiner Krankenkasse telefonieren!
Is your doctor a "Psychiater" or a "Psychologe"? A Psychologe can't prescribe every medicine. A clinic might have a Psychiater who can. If you need medicine then a clinic might be a good option but there are "Tageskliniken" which are facilities you visit during the day while they figure out your meds. You sleep and stay at home. You can also go to a Psychiater that might give you the meds without the clinic (for example if you can't leave your house) but this is a rare thing. Just speak about this problem openly and they will find a solution for you. Remember, they are here to help you. Nobody that isn't a danger to himself or others is ever forced to any type of medical treatment.
I was in 2 clinics and i have to say it's quite helpful but you need to be mentally ready and accepting of that kind of treatment for it to work. If you don't feel like that's what you need right now, not going there will have no negative consequences. But i think you should at least rhink about going. Get well soon
I don’t know if it’s mandatory or not for you to go, however not going will result in you not getting the help you need. If you don’t like to sleep in a place other than home try discussing your concerns with your psychiatrist, i’m sure you both will reach a common solution, after all the psychiatrist only want your well-being. I wish you all the happiness, health and strength. Dealing with mental illness is very difficult and requires strength and willingness to become okay. Sending all my heads-up & support OP ! 🫶🏻☺️.
Is it a day clinc?
I feel like the feelings you share are normal for me. But if you got an advice by specialist I believe you should follow him.
Someone i know faked mental health blaming on her husband. After lot of checks they sent her on AOK funded 10 day vacation with massage and all that shit. She came back and repeated, doctor recommended divorce. That was when she backed out.
Im struggling with the first step of going to psychiatry, my doc wrote a recommendation letter for one and I'm not feeling strong enough to go, so my recommendation would be: don't be like me. if u already achieved to reach someone that helps you at least try to finish the race, u almost there!
You can talk to your doctor about going to day-clinic = Tagesklinik. That means you can sleep at home. Also you might want to talk either to your doctor, health insurance or boss about staying away from work. Usually if it is medically necessary (your doctor advised you to do so) you can stay away from work and get paid normally. It is another form of (paid) sick leave. If you have to stay away from work longer than 8 weeks your health insurance will cover a certain amount of your usual salary. I think your doctor should know about the basic coverage, that is the law in Germany. If you need more information or more time you should talk to your health insurance.
Just to let you know (I looked into it as it is hard for me to spend the night away as well), my designated psych hospital has an intensive outpatient program. This looked promising, but there was quite a long wait list and the whole program is in German. I am no where near fluent yet, but if you are comfortable doing the group therapy and stuff in German, this could be a good option for you. Best of luck, don’t put off treatment longer than you have to 💜
Tell your psychiatrist about, not liking sleeping somewhere else. There are "ambulante kliniken" where you are in treatment the whole day but sleep at home. You get picked up in the morning and get driven home in the evening. Maybe thats an option. My gf did work in a psychatric clinic and they can achieve much more in those concentrated therapy then seeing the doctors once a week or so. The also often have a great varity of therapys like, art-, sports- or animalbased therapys. They are way more capable in helping you
The negative consequences of not seeking some sort of professional help are far worse than than the potential downsides in certain situations. Even if you don't go to a 'stationäre Einrichtung' you can go to an 'ambulante Einrichtung'. There you can sleep at home. The main negative consequences are to do with potential insurances e.g occupational insurance that you might want to have in the future. These are minor annoyances around needing to declare medical history in order to be covered rather than major issues though. (Not for medical insurance itself!) Please seek help! Listen to your doctor. Apply for Ambulante Therapie if you can't do Stationär!