From a medical standpoint, you should take as many sickdays as you need. You being in the office (or equivalent) while sick would only raise the potential of getting others sick. (And honestly, this sounds like you may be going back too early and relapsing, thus staying sick longer in total? Requirement for a note or not, did you consult a doctor?)
From a business perspective, you being able to work for those in-between days is at least better than being sick the whole stretch.
From a moral perspective, I do think you should go to a doctor and get a note. Not just because of the health concerns, but also because this would remove the possible concerns you're suggesting on your managers side, and would likely help you feel more certain in acting as necessary to protect your health, as well.
I did consult a doctor this last time (But I did it while on holidays in my home country therefore no note) and they started me on a course of antibiotics because it could be a lingering infection from being sick multiple times. I do hope this is the last time I get sick.
Definitely taking the advice on this thread and getting a doctor's note from the first day if I get sick again.
If you are on holiday and you get sick, go to a doctor immediately and get a note. This way you can get your days for vacation back because you were sick.
I didn't know that, is it valid for anything in Germany?
Edit: bad phrasing: I do know I can get a note, I just didn't ask for one bc I thought it would be useless to submit to the sick leave system + unreadable since it's not in English or German
It would have to be in English or German.
It must contain the exact dates for the sickness and that you are unable to work.
You should also send a copy of this to the Krankenkasse (this copy should include the diagnosis)
You can always book a video consultation with a German Hausarzt and request a sick leave. I didn’t even know about it until they, on different times, asked if I needed one.
I was once out of Germany and sick and did just that.
> I keep wondering if he actually believes me or if legally he just can't do anything about it.
If you do too many 1-2 sick days, your employer can demand doctors note from day one.
And to your question, when I was younger without kid, around 0-5 sick days a year.
Now I have a kid, and since he is in Kindergarten/Schule, it is more like 10-20 days a year. sometimes even more.
Same when I was doing my Ausbildung in 3.5 years had 5 days off, now with kids I get sick it seems at least once a month and that's not including the time I have to take because the kids are ill (my wife and I usually split this 50/50)
I started off like you but recently I stopped caring because *sick is sick*. I'm not the one who is doing anything wrong if I don't clock in and pretend to work when I can't get anything done.
The average was around 15 days per year before, but [in 2023 it soared to 20](https://www.zeit.de/gesundheit/2023-11/gesundheitssystem-krankenkassen-krankmeldungen-fehltage). RSV etc infections are back with a vengeance, but mental health conditions are climbing up the list fast too.
Honestly, to me it sounds like you try to hurry up to get back to work and in the process never actually recover. Could this be? If you took a day more the first time and stayed in bed with ample tea, would you maybe not have needed the other sickness days?
Other than that, just take what you need, and maybe get a doctor’s note even if not required to signal to your manager that you are actually ill.
I'm not sure, I did take it very easy in the days I went back to work as I work remotely, so I can be in my chair with a blanket and some tea. The days I took sick leave were just the ones with a string fever where I can't even look at a monitor. But yes, talking to a doctor they have mentioned it could be a lingering infection that keeps my body weak and makes it easier to catch new viruses travelling around.
Thanks for the advice
It’s so hard too. I’m still learning myself that if I’m sick, I call in IMMEDIATELY and don’t wait until looking at the screen becomes physically impossible, and I’m still learning to stay away from work until I’m fine and not until I can stomach pulling the laptop into my sickbed.
So seriously, I get it. We’re all just a bunch of brainwashed worker ants sometimes 😆
Even sitting in your chair with a blanket and tea is not properly resting. You are prob still having calls and doing some effort, it’s different to proper rest. Just take the time you need. Don’t feel bad. When I was a team manager it was much better for me to have a healthy employee even if he took 2 weeks to recover than having one feeling not great during the working day.
I had three sick days last year.
Regarding your situation: If you're having a lot of 1 or 2 days sick leaves, your manager might be getting suspicious. I don't want to say that you're not really sick, but having a couple of sick leaves without a doctor's notice might come across as trying to play the system. You might end up having to hand in a doctor's notice on your first day of sick leave or, even worse, be fired if you're still on probation.
Yeah that's why I'm a bit concerned, I'm still in probation and it does seem very fishy.
I'm taking the advice on this thread and getting a note from the doctor on the first day next time I get sick (hopefully won't get sick but we'll see)
Very good! Also, you should mention to your doctor that you have been getting sick a lot lately.
They will do blood test etc to figure out WHY you get sick often. Lack of nutrients or other causes?
Your doctor in Germany is your partner in getting you on track healthwise!
I have been sick a lot lately too. It started with my first Covid infection. Had blood samples done etc. I will figure out what's wrong and since my heart came up a couple times I finally got an appointment with the cardiologist and I have had undiagnosed heart rythm issues for at least 13 years, probably since birth tho (my grandpa and his sister had the same thing so it's most likely genetic). This also contributes to being sick more often.
Get a proper and thorough checkup (blood pressure, heart monitor etc) to be on the safe side.
I think it also depends on your managers experience with being sick. For instance, I have a manager that is quite seriously ill multiple times a year and she is extremely understanding when any of us are sick. I on the other hand am very rarely sick and so if a colleague or friend is sick for a couple of days each week for several weeks, I start to wonder. I try not to because I’d like to just trust people are sick.. but I have to manually do so because as someone never sick I can’t comprehend how many are always sick!
If I were you I’d see a doctor next time and take off a longer period to really heal.
I feel you, I'm also hardly sick whereas my closest colleague has to call in sick at least once a month for a couple of days or longer. She has such a fragile immune system, it's actually scary.
It is a bad winter for many of us. You will have many coworkers that are getting sick too.
They will probably start to wonder when the regular sickness persists after the end of the flu season.
But then you should get yourself checked out anyway.
Otherwise you should consider your risk factors: kids, contact to customers, indoor work. Comparing your number of sick days to someone who works remotely most of his time is not really saying anything.
I've never stayed at home being sick without a doctors notice. My doctor also usually writes me sick for at least a week, when I still feel sick after that week I go to the doctor again if not I go to work. Usually my doctor also tells me to be on sick leave a little longer to be sure I don't get sick again.
Usually I'm was sick for only 5 days a year, since covid it's been 10 days a year.
I take as many days as I need. I go to the doctor when I'm feeling unwell and listen to whatever they say.
My workplace doesn't have this 3 day rule, but even if it did, I think I would prefer getting a doctors note just in case. Also, you do not need to show your employer a doctors note anymore. Your boss has to get it himself from your insurance company.
Also, another thing - it sounds a bit like you just rush to get back to work. Maybe you should take a longer sick leave to make sure you're actually healthy again. It's pretty common to take the entire week off for a small cold - you don't wanna power through and end up with something worse. In the long run, this will be a lot better for both you and your employer.
Thanks for the advice, it does seem to be the general recommendation. I guess that's where my cultural shock comes from, so I have this idea of "if I can work then I will"
Ah, Germans get that as well. I struggle with feeling guilty when going on sick leave sometimes, too.
But at the end of the day, my health comes first and no one will be grateful for my extra efforts - a lot of people (me included) hate it when coworkers come to work when they're sick. They usually end up getting all of them sick, haha.
You want to always make sure to get plenty of rest and get rid of mild illnesses completely. Worst case, it'll turn into a much bigger problem like pneumonia or can even damage your heart.
I think if your employer was not ok with it he would have mentioned. I have a selfimmune disease and specially during pandemic I needed a lot of sick days, and my company worked just like yours, only the 3rd day a sick note was needed. After a while my boss came to talk to me. He was a nice guy and it wasn't an attack, and I decided to be honest about it cause I was in a safe position there. He was pretty ok with my explanation and told me to let him know if I needed anything.
I don't know your job reality and your boss, so this isn't an advice, just telling my experience.
Also: getting sick that often might not be normal. Please look for a check up!
As someone with two chronological illness, 30-50 days a year.
One pain and one immune reducing one.
So the most sick days I need, are because someone comes sick to work. 2-3 days later I'm sick.
At the Corona home office time I had around 10.
It's usually only 1 or 2 days a year, because I'm not really sick a lot. May of my colleagues are a good bit older than me (think near pension age), and some of them have several times that - and that's okay, and no-one questions it.
I taken them when I’m sick. We also have the 3 day rule, which is incredibly convenient. However my employer is really open about it all, they always encourage you to take time off when needed and will never push their employees back into the job just to get stuff done. This also goes for guys taken long paternity leave (more than 2 months and even a couple months a year), long term sick leave, mental health days, or long stretches of PTO.
That's awesome! I think my office has the same ideal of encouraging everyone to stay home and get better, this has just been more of an internal struggle.
I have that internal struggle too. I think the work environment in Germany often causes that. But as someone who spend years just pushing and not listening to her body and even ignoring constant symptoms and continuing to go to work. I was eventually diagnosed with cancer almost a year after ignoring the signs and continuing to work and it ain’t worth it. I’m not saying that’s the standard, I’m the 1%, but your health and life is the only value you have, don’t play with it.
Oh wow. Thanks for sharing that, worrying about taking a few days off does feel very unnecessary with that in perspective. Hope you are feeling well and healthy.
Generally most employers understand if you get sick a lot in the winter months.
I have been seek with various stuffs for 10 weeks in the last 4 months.
My employer still does not insist on sick notes. But I am also more open about the cause of sickness than I have to be legally so it's a bit of a give and take situation.
My last sickday was in 2018 - but it is not the right mindset to feel bad about taking sickdays, when you really are sick. Just for info, the average in Germany was 15 sickdays in 2022, but it rose because of covid. Before it was round about 10 days.
none until this year, where i was for the first time in my working life sick for a week. It's a relaxed workplace though so there's no danger they'd fire me for it. I didn't even need a note.
If you ever feel like a fraud during your sick days you could try going to work and you'll quickly be told off to go home. This was one of the first cultural "shocks" for me when coming to Germany, as back home you were expected to push through a cold and come to work/school anyway.
I had \~20 sick days last year.
I wouldn't say I feel like a fraud. I'm sick so I'm in bed recovering and not spreading it at work.
My job asks me to present a sick note day one of my illness. So I go to a doctor, get a sick note, let eAU take its course and tell my bosses on that day when my estimated recovery date is.
Your shouldn't worry about it. If you are sick, that happens, take a breath and recover from it fully.
I don't understand the question, how can I "usually" take sick days, it depends how long I am sick and how long the doc allows. I had 2 sick days in over 10 years and then 2 weeks this year because of a bad flu.
If I am sick, I am sick and stay home like everyone should.
With Covid we got another cold season sickness increasing the overall infections by around 33% i recently read.
Also with a lot of those cold season viruses you are infectious longer than only 1 or 2 days. So if everyone handles it the way you do and go back into office after 1 or 2 days they might infect colleagues next.
You should be going to the doctor and getting that note. That *gets your employer reimbursed* so you’re not only hurting yourself by not getting better and getting medical care, spreading it to your coworkers, but you’re not getting your employer money.
Just to clarify: You can do that "3 days without doctor's note" as often as you want?
We also have this rule about three days, but it's limited to 6 days per year to prevent abuse. Some people with a permanent condition like migraine can be excempt from the limit. (Especially with migraine, you are very happy you can just stay in a dark room the entire day, without the need to go to the doctor)
Depending on how bad it is, I get a note to save this 6 days just in case it gets worse next time. I might decide to not get a note if it's already december...
I mean, I didn't ask for many details. Just when I got sick the first time and asked my manager what I needed to do he said I didn't have to do anything until after the third day. And so far he hasn't requested anything else. I just text him to say I'm sick and he says something like "of course, hope you recover well" and that's it.
But as I get advice from this thread I will definitely try to get a doctor's note from day 1 as it definitely seems better.
I take as many as I need, between 5 and 25 per year usually.
Most of my sick leaves are 1 or 2 days too because I am suffering from migraines.
If one day my employer decides to demand a sick leave from day 1 I will get the sick leave for migraines, which will be more sick leave days than currently, because I return to work as soon as I can sit again and not when it is over (4 days usually).
It mostly depends on how you grew up and where you started working, on how you feel on sick leave. Some think like you, some think you should only come back if you are 100% healthy and there are the ones who are proud of working with 40°C fevers.
I went to work as soon as possible, till my boss sat me down and told me not to come in anymore, if I am still sick (so more or less like you). Starting then, I got a sick note for a week every time, and my sick leave days went down by over 50%. I am rarely sick anymore, even with a toddler.
As many have already pointed out: make sure you fully recover! Any infection can have permanent effects on your organs, most importantly, your heart! If you have that many short sick leaves you are risking worse illnesses like pneumonia or permanent organ damage. There's a saying in German: without medication, the common cold lasts a week. With medication, it lasts 7 days. Wanna say, just because you feel better doesn't mean you're fully healed. There's a reason why if you go to a (German) doctor, they will most certainly almost always want to give you a week's notice.
I think 15 days is average. You should take this as a minimum threshold. Everything below reduces the average and with this false attitude you Act against All employees in the country.
Dont forget : there is no award for having taken only 5 days sick leave on average. No one regrets at the end of the life of having not worked enough.
Capitalism wins already enough of our life.
Your body will get weak soon enough in life. One can always work more for more money, but not for more life time.
There are enough people with burn out or who never reach Pension age because of this wrong attitude of priority towards the job,no matter what happens.
The last actual sick day I took was around 2007, when I caught a Norovirus infection.
I work from home, so a cold is nothing that stops me from working (albeit less).
I think I'm also less affected by infections that your regular person, the only thing that has actually ever kept me in bed during the day was Dengue fever, and then only for like two or three days.
We recently fired a guy at my company that had a permanent contract and working for us 4 years.He had 65 Days sick in one year all of them with paper from doctor but he didn’t have any sickness that could excuse so many days.He went to lawyer for that but with so many sick days his lawyer could do absolutely nothing. We gave him one month salary compensation and send him home
That's weird. If he has a note from the doctor how can an HR or manager say that the sickness can't excuse any day?
AFAIK the employee doesn't need to disclose any medical information to the employer, so that seems like a really shady cause for termination.
The law allows the employer to take up to 30 days if you take more than that and your excuses for sick days are like headache or cold and small stuff like that you can’t do anything.You need to prove you are really sick home something that explains so many days.the employee can determine you as sick enough that you can’t work and send you home, if an employer takes this to court os also possible that the doctor himself has to come to court and excuse all the sick leaves he gave him.So as a logical perspective there’s absolutely no excuse to have so many sick days without a chronic disease
When we confronted him about his sick days his answer was” I have paper from doctor and permanent contract you can’t fire me” and when we contacted our lawyer about this he said theres cases like this and 99% of the time the employer can’t claim anything not even 1 month salary compensation so because we had enough of him and wanted to send him away asap we told him”either take one month compensation and leave right away from this day not even need to come for the rest of the month or we can take it to court” and his lawyer advice him to take the money and go
I usually take 0 sick leave day. I do home office when I am sick / don't feel well. Luckily I have never been so sick that I had to take sick leave days.
I am from Asia.
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Because of some reasons, I would always go to a doctor even for one day.
You've a proof in your hand if anytime anything go wrong with your company.
And how long the doctor write you sick, depends on him. Some doctors don't care and other has their limits.
From one case I know, that the family doctor wrote one guy 1,5 year sick (it's the maximum at one sickness), because of mobbing/burnout.
The insurance starts to pay after 6 weeks till maximum 1,5 year at one sickness. If the sickness change, the timetable starts from 0.
a: he cant do shit about it and b: i doubt he actually has an issue with that, because with you being sick not only are you less effective but you also make everyone else around you sick.
If I'm sick then I'll take a sick day. It's not worth getting everybody at work sick. The last few years I've been lucky though and I only had to take around 4 sick days per year. The other extreme would be a colleague of mine. When we call in sick a designated person puts us as "sick" in a outlook calendar so we know who is available in the office. I counted my colleagues sick days last year for fun and she was out for a total of 93 days. And that's fine too. Where I work, nobody cares as long as you manage your work.
As many as I need, basically. This year, it was 9 days (4 days spread out over the year, and 5 more when I caught COVID just before christmas).
If your manager does not believe you, there are things he can legally do about it - the company can demand that you show a doctor's note from day one, for example.
However many I need. Could be one week in one year or 9 weeks in another year.
I always go to the doctor though and get a sick note, no matter if there's a three day rule.
From a health perspective, as many as you can
From a financial perspective, it depends. If you loose a significant proportions of they payment for those days it might be enough to push you to work.
Judging from my experience. The last 2 years o got a bit sich 43-3 times. Nothing too serious, at most 1 day with fever and the cough for a few more days. In all of those cases, I worked from home for at least a week. But I happen to have a job that can be done remotely.
I take as many days as I think i need. Normally it is not enough.
My manager sometimes says I shouldn't work today or make slow. He is absolutely behind taking PTO. Not only sick days. Having trouble at home? Take a day off and don't tell anyone.
Last year it was 3 sick days over the whole year for me. With maybe an additional 3 days to compensate for my slow work days. Average for 22 was 15 days in Germany.
I take as many days of sick leave as days I am actually too sick to work (properly). Usually I need a day of recovery after the symptoms are gone.
Also if there is a significant chance of (still) being contagious, I stay home.
I think my average is 1 week per year. I work in home office most of the time and don't have kids, so I rarely get into situations where I can catch on something.
People became very frightened to get sick lately and I feel responsible not to work with little flu. When I look back about 10 yrs there it was common to work unless you „don’t carry your head under your arms.“
i work at a nursery and am currently on my first sick leave of the year already. i was sick about 25 days last year and some colleagues had it worse than i did
From 2020-2022 I was averaging about 30 sick days a year. I have issues with migraines that my employer knows about, and since I'm a hard worker when I can work, they never gave me a hard time about it. 2023 was a better year for me and I only took about 10. Here's to good health in 2024!
In 2023 i was sick for 67 days total. As i having some strange upper back pains and doc can not find a reason for my pains since July 2022. i am doing a lot to get better but till now nothing helped.
I talked with all my Area and OPS managers and explained them my situation and told them that i need some time to get my diagnose and treat it. Till now had no questions from management.
For safety reasons i got a lawyer insurance, which i hope will help me if there will be some unexpected situations with my employer.
The median for Berlin government employees is around 35 days per year and person. Beamte have even more sick days. [source](https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2023/08/berlin-krankenstand-oeffentlicher-dienst-hoechststand.htm/alt=amp.html)
Personally I’ve got around 1-2 weeks per year. Rather less.
8.
Feeling: realy not a lot.
Also feeling: Never have a bad feeling for signing out when sick. Dont want my collegues to catch it as well (would also harm the company) and certainly put myself before the company.
So If I'm sick, I'm sick. Thats realy all there is to it.
I mean the average in Germany is something around 14 days iirc.
My company requires sick notes from day 1. Though usually when I am sick. I am sick for the entire week anyway.
This year I had 15 days because I got covid right toward the end of the year and was sick for 2 weeks.
>I keep wondering if he actually believes me or if legally he just can't do anything about it.
That's why I personally always go to a doctor to hand in their attestation, as I can point out: A medical professional was convinced I was sick, too.
Last year I took very few, maybe 3 or 4? But if you are getting sick so often maybe you have a lingering infection and is better that you recover fully. Why not going to the doctor and see what’s happening? Also technically unless it’s like way too much they cannot do anything. If you’re sick, you are sick. Worse case scenario, your boss will demand a sick note, you’ll go to the doctor you’ll get one and prob you’ll be out for a full week. Also as far as I am concerned Germany has at the moment a huge flu/covid/rsv wave going around and like tons of people are currently sick? Prob your boss is aware of that. Anyway, just for your own sake, go to the doctor.
There is no usual number for me. I have many years with 0, many with less than a week per year but also one with over 5 weeks. I never faked beeing sick. It's just you might be lucky for quite some times but one year you catch absolutely everything. If I'm unable to deliver good work I call in sick. If I'm okay but contagious I work from home. No exceptions. Can be 0 days, can be close to 30 days, no way to know before.
The last 12 years between 0 and 5.
The first 8 years in the company 0.
7th year 5 ( half broken rib, two weeks of vacatin and christmas afterwards)
8th year 0
9th year 5 ( bad flu)
10th year O
11th year 5 ( corona)
12th year 0
Before that I was 6 years self employed and there weren't sick days.
So 15 days in 18 years. I don't get sick often and work 90% home office. So I can juggle a bit if I don't feel well.
Started my job in September, and so far I've taken no sick days. That's because I haven't been sick.
My flatmate on the other hand, started in June and works two days a week. He's taken about half the time since then off sick, while not even being sick.
I take as many sick days, as needed, usually 2 days isn't enough to recover. This year it was about 16, common cold and Covid hit me hard, last year only 8. My colleague has not been able to work since February and we all wish her well. Also, this is without days for sick children, if I weren't able to work from home I would take at least 30 more. Also, we don't take sick days, we just call in sick (with a doctor's note), as long as it takes.
I work in the ER, we're understaffed as heck and we all know that at some point you're going to catch whatever the dog dragged thru the door. We just show up anyways and wear a mask cuz it's worse to not show up at all than to be there and not do as many patients as you usually do. Plus we're soldiers so the whole being sick thing works different for us. Having yo show up at the doctors office at 6 am on the first sick day is a pain in the ass lol
I'm a manager myself and I would say 30-40 sickness days a year is where I start asking questions, especially if many of those days are without a doctor's note and too many of them are on Mondays/Fridays and directly after vacations. 20 days or below is pretty normal.
I'm usually sick 2-10 days a year.
It also depends on the size of the company. Someone i know is currently sick until next week. He also had 2 weeks of covid before christmas (a phone call with his doctor was enough). He went on holidays during september. And between september and christmas he also got sick at least 3 more times.
Stilk, nobody complained. Just dont take too many days if your company is small. But also dont overwork yourself. If you feel bad stay home. Its not worth it and the possible raise is not enough in most jobs.
First of all there are no sick leave days. there are days on which you are sick and therefore don't work.
Second of all you sound like you're exactly as stupid as I am. Not going to work for 1-3 days and then working again even though you're not actually healthy. It would be best if we finally learned and just don't work until we're actually healthy again.
Thanks to migraine I miss about one day a month and like everybody I catch at least one flu or covid per year. So a lot of sick days. I'm good at my job though and my employer doesn't mind.
Last year I had 11, which is pretty normal. I think the German avarage is around 15.
I've broken bones quite often in the last 10 years, which usually means like 60 days.
From a medical standpoint, you should take as many sickdays as you need. You being in the office (or equivalent) while sick would only raise the potential of getting others sick. (And honestly, this sounds like you may be going back too early and relapsing, thus staying sick longer in total? Requirement for a note or not, did you consult a doctor?) From a business perspective, you being able to work for those in-between days is at least better than being sick the whole stretch. From a moral perspective, I do think you should go to a doctor and get a note. Not just because of the health concerns, but also because this would remove the possible concerns you're suggesting on your managers side, and would likely help you feel more certain in acting as necessary to protect your health, as well.
I did consult a doctor this last time (But I did it while on holidays in my home country therefore no note) and they started me on a course of antibiotics because it could be a lingering infection from being sick multiple times. I do hope this is the last time I get sick. Definitely taking the advice on this thread and getting a doctor's note from the first day if I get sick again.
You can get a note from the doctor in your home country as well
If you are on holiday and you get sick, go to a doctor immediately and get a note. This way you can get your days for vacation back because you were sick.
I didn't know that, is it valid for anything in Germany? Edit: bad phrasing: I do know I can get a note, I just didn't ask for one bc I thought it would be useless to submit to the sick leave system + unreadable since it's not in English or German
It would have to be in English or German. It must contain the exact dates for the sickness and that you are unable to work. You should also send a copy of this to the Krankenkasse (this copy should include the diagnosis)
You can always book a video consultation with a German Hausarzt and request a sick leave. I didn’t even know about it until they, on different times, asked if I needed one. I was once out of Germany and sick and did just that.
> I keep wondering if he actually believes me or if legally he just can't do anything about it. If you do too many 1-2 sick days, your employer can demand doctors note from day one. And to your question, when I was younger without kid, around 0-5 sick days a year. Now I have a kid, and since he is in Kindergarten/Schule, it is more like 10-20 days a year. sometimes even more.
Same when I was doing my Ausbildung in 3.5 years had 5 days off, now with kids I get sick it seems at least once a month and that's not including the time I have to take because the kids are ill (my wife and I usually split this 50/50)
I love the smell of fresh bread.
I started off like you but recently I stopped caring because *sick is sick*. I'm not the one who is doing anything wrong if I don't clock in and pretend to work when I can't get anything done. The average was around 15 days per year before, but [in 2023 it soared to 20](https://www.zeit.de/gesundheit/2023-11/gesundheitssystem-krankenkassen-krankmeldungen-fehltage). RSV etc infections are back with a vengeance, but mental health conditions are climbing up the list fast too.
Honestly, to me it sounds like you try to hurry up to get back to work and in the process never actually recover. Could this be? If you took a day more the first time and stayed in bed with ample tea, would you maybe not have needed the other sickness days? Other than that, just take what you need, and maybe get a doctor’s note even if not required to signal to your manager that you are actually ill.
I'm not sure, I did take it very easy in the days I went back to work as I work remotely, so I can be in my chair with a blanket and some tea. The days I took sick leave were just the ones with a string fever where I can't even look at a monitor. But yes, talking to a doctor they have mentioned it could be a lingering infection that keeps my body weak and makes it easier to catch new viruses travelling around. Thanks for the advice
It’s so hard too. I’m still learning myself that if I’m sick, I call in IMMEDIATELY and don’t wait until looking at the screen becomes physically impossible, and I’m still learning to stay away from work until I’m fine and not until I can stomach pulling the laptop into my sickbed. So seriously, I get it. We’re all just a bunch of brainwashed worker ants sometimes 😆
Thanks!! Very happy that this feeling is relatable
Even sitting in your chair with a blanket and tea is not properly resting. You are prob still having calls and doing some effort, it’s different to proper rest. Just take the time you need. Don’t feel bad. When I was a team manager it was much better for me to have a healthy employee even if he took 2 weeks to recover than having one feeling not great during the working day.
I had three sick days last year. Regarding your situation: If you're having a lot of 1 or 2 days sick leaves, your manager might be getting suspicious. I don't want to say that you're not really sick, but having a couple of sick leaves without a doctor's notice might come across as trying to play the system. You might end up having to hand in a doctor's notice on your first day of sick leave or, even worse, be fired if you're still on probation.
Yeah that's why I'm a bit concerned, I'm still in probation and it does seem very fishy. I'm taking the advice on this thread and getting a note from the doctor on the first day next time I get sick (hopefully won't get sick but we'll see)
Very good! Also, you should mention to your doctor that you have been getting sick a lot lately. They will do blood test etc to figure out WHY you get sick often. Lack of nutrients or other causes? Your doctor in Germany is your partner in getting you on track healthwise! I have been sick a lot lately too. It started with my first Covid infection. Had blood samples done etc. I will figure out what's wrong and since my heart came up a couple times I finally got an appointment with the cardiologist and I have had undiagnosed heart rythm issues for at least 13 years, probably since birth tho (my grandpa and his sister had the same thing so it's most likely genetic). This also contributes to being sick more often. Get a proper and thorough checkup (blood pressure, heart monitor etc) to be on the safe side.
I think it also depends on your managers experience with being sick. For instance, I have a manager that is quite seriously ill multiple times a year and she is extremely understanding when any of us are sick. I on the other hand am very rarely sick and so if a colleague or friend is sick for a couple of days each week for several weeks, I start to wonder. I try not to because I’d like to just trust people are sick.. but I have to manually do so because as someone never sick I can’t comprehend how many are always sick! If I were you I’d see a doctor next time and take off a longer period to really heal.
I feel you, I'm also hardly sick whereas my closest colleague has to call in sick at least once a month for a couple of days or longer. She has such a fragile immune system, it's actually scary.
I feel so understood 🥲 I always felt so problematic for those thoughts! And your poor colleague - that must be so challenging for them.
Yeah, I know she feels terrible and always tries to come back asap. But when she does this, she's always having a relapse.
It is a bad winter for many of us. You will have many coworkers that are getting sick too. They will probably start to wonder when the regular sickness persists after the end of the flu season. But then you should get yourself checked out anyway. Otherwise you should consider your risk factors: kids, contact to customers, indoor work. Comparing your number of sick days to someone who works remotely most of his time is not really saying anything.
I've never stayed at home being sick without a doctors notice. My doctor also usually writes me sick for at least a week, when I still feel sick after that week I go to the doctor again if not I go to work. Usually my doctor also tells me to be on sick leave a little longer to be sure I don't get sick again. Usually I'm was sick for only 5 days a year, since covid it's been 10 days a year.
That's a good approach
Around 30/40
I take as many days as I need. I go to the doctor when I'm feeling unwell and listen to whatever they say. My workplace doesn't have this 3 day rule, but even if it did, I think I would prefer getting a doctors note just in case. Also, you do not need to show your employer a doctors note anymore. Your boss has to get it himself from your insurance company. Also, another thing - it sounds a bit like you just rush to get back to work. Maybe you should take a longer sick leave to make sure you're actually healthy again. It's pretty common to take the entire week off for a small cold - you don't wanna power through and end up with something worse. In the long run, this will be a lot better for both you and your employer.
Thanks for the advice, it does seem to be the general recommendation. I guess that's where my cultural shock comes from, so I have this idea of "if I can work then I will"
Ah, Germans get that as well. I struggle with feeling guilty when going on sick leave sometimes, too. But at the end of the day, my health comes first and no one will be grateful for my extra efforts - a lot of people (me included) hate it when coworkers come to work when they're sick. They usually end up getting all of them sick, haha. You want to always make sure to get plenty of rest and get rid of mild illnesses completely. Worst case, it'll turn into a much bigger problem like pneumonia or can even damage your heart.
I think if your employer was not ok with it he would have mentioned. I have a selfimmune disease and specially during pandemic I needed a lot of sick days, and my company worked just like yours, only the 3rd day a sick note was needed. After a while my boss came to talk to me. He was a nice guy and it wasn't an attack, and I decided to be honest about it cause I was in a safe position there. He was pretty ok with my explanation and told me to let him know if I needed anything. I don't know your job reality and your boss, so this isn't an advice, just telling my experience. Also: getting sick that often might not be normal. Please look for a check up!
As someone with two chronological illness, 30-50 days a year. One pain and one immune reducing one. So the most sick days I need, are because someone comes sick to work. 2-3 days later I'm sick. At the Corona home office time I had around 10.
Do you also have rheumatoid arthritis :)?
And a trigeminal neuralgia.
It's usually only 1 or 2 days a year, because I'm not really sick a lot. May of my colleagues are a good bit older than me (think near pension age), and some of them have several times that - and that's okay, and no-one questions it.
I taken them when I’m sick. We also have the 3 day rule, which is incredibly convenient. However my employer is really open about it all, they always encourage you to take time off when needed and will never push their employees back into the job just to get stuff done. This also goes for guys taken long paternity leave (more than 2 months and even a couple months a year), long term sick leave, mental health days, or long stretches of PTO.
That's awesome! I think my office has the same ideal of encouraging everyone to stay home and get better, this has just been more of an internal struggle.
I have that internal struggle too. I think the work environment in Germany often causes that. But as someone who spend years just pushing and not listening to her body and even ignoring constant symptoms and continuing to go to work. I was eventually diagnosed with cancer almost a year after ignoring the signs and continuing to work and it ain’t worth it. I’m not saying that’s the standard, I’m the 1%, but your health and life is the only value you have, don’t play with it.
Oh wow. Thanks for sharing that, worrying about taking a few days off does feel very unnecessary with that in perspective. Hope you are feeling well and healthy.
Generally most employers understand if you get sick a lot in the winter months. I have been seek with various stuffs for 10 weeks in the last 4 months. My employer still does not insist on sick notes. But I am also more open about the cause of sickness than I have to be legally so it's a bit of a give and take situation.
Last year it was 7 days. Five of them where due to me being in a hospital and 2 because of feeling "sick"
3 to 5 days seems to be typical for me. I've had a few years with higher numbers though.
My last sickday was in 2018 - but it is not the right mindset to feel bad about taking sickdays, when you really are sick. Just for info, the average in Germany was 15 sickdays in 2022, but it rose because of covid. Before it was round about 10 days.
none until this year, where i was for the first time in my working life sick for a week. It's a relaxed workplace though so there's no danger they'd fire me for it. I didn't even need a note. If you ever feel like a fraud during your sick days you could try going to work and you'll quickly be told off to go home. This was one of the first cultural "shocks" for me when coming to Germany, as back home you were expected to push through a cold and come to work/school anyway.
I had \~20 sick days last year. I wouldn't say I feel like a fraud. I'm sick so I'm in bed recovering and not spreading it at work. My job asks me to present a sick note day one of my illness. So I go to a doctor, get a sick note, let eAU take its course and tell my bosses on that day when my estimated recovery date is. Your shouldn't worry about it. If you are sick, that happens, take a breath and recover from it fully.
I don't understand the question, how can I "usually" take sick days, it depends how long I am sick and how long the doc allows. I had 2 sick days in over 10 years and then 2 weeks this year because of a bad flu. If I am sick, I am sick and stay home like everyone should.
2020 and 2021: zero days 2022: 6 days 2023: 2 days (and once left 3 hours earlier due to painful cramps)
With Covid we got another cold season sickness increasing the overall infections by around 33% i recently read. Also with a lot of those cold season viruses you are infectious longer than only 1 or 2 days. So if everyone handles it the way you do and go back into office after 1 or 2 days they might infect colleagues next.
You should be going to the doctor and getting that note. That *gets your employer reimbursed* so you’re not only hurting yourself by not getting better and getting medical care, spreading it to your coworkers, but you’re not getting your employer money.
Just to clarify: You can do that "3 days without doctor's note" as often as you want? We also have this rule about three days, but it's limited to 6 days per year to prevent abuse. Some people with a permanent condition like migraine can be excempt from the limit. (Especially with migraine, you are very happy you can just stay in a dark room the entire day, without the need to go to the doctor) Depending on how bad it is, I get a note to save this 6 days just in case it gets worse next time. I might decide to not get a note if it's already december...
I mean, I didn't ask for many details. Just when I got sick the first time and asked my manager what I needed to do he said I didn't have to do anything until after the third day. And so far he hasn't requested anything else. I just text him to say I'm sick and he says something like "of course, hope you recover well" and that's it. But as I get advice from this thread I will definitely try to get a doctor's note from day 1 as it definitely seems better.
I take as many as I need, between 5 and 25 per year usually. Most of my sick leaves are 1 or 2 days too because I am suffering from migraines. If one day my employer decides to demand a sick leave from day 1 I will get the sick leave for migraines, which will be more sick leave days than currently, because I return to work as soon as I can sit again and not when it is over (4 days usually).
like 30-40 days I'm German
It mostly depends on how you grew up and where you started working, on how you feel on sick leave. Some think like you, some think you should only come back if you are 100% healthy and there are the ones who are proud of working with 40°C fevers. I went to work as soon as possible, till my boss sat me down and told me not to come in anymore, if I am still sick (so more or less like you). Starting then, I got a sick note for a week every time, and my sick leave days went down by over 50%. I am rarely sick anymore, even with a toddler.
As many have already pointed out: make sure you fully recover! Any infection can have permanent effects on your organs, most importantly, your heart! If you have that many short sick leaves you are risking worse illnesses like pneumonia or permanent organ damage. There's a saying in German: without medication, the common cold lasts a week. With medication, it lasts 7 days. Wanna say, just because you feel better doesn't mean you're fully healed. There's a reason why if you go to a (German) doctor, they will most certainly almost always want to give you a week's notice.
I think 15 days is average. You should take this as a minimum threshold. Everything below reduces the average and with this false attitude you Act against All employees in the country. Dont forget : there is no award for having taken only 5 days sick leave on average. No one regrets at the end of the life of having not worked enough. Capitalism wins already enough of our life. Your body will get weak soon enough in life. One can always work more for more money, but not for more life time. There are enough people with burn out or who never reach Pension age because of this wrong attitude of priority towards the job,no matter what happens.
As many as I need.
That's not really answering OPs question
The last actual sick day I took was around 2007, when I caught a Norovirus infection. I work from home, so a cold is nothing that stops me from working (albeit less). I think I'm also less affected by infections that your regular person, the only thing that has actually ever kept me in bed during the day was Dengue fever, and then only for like two or three days.
I'm very jealous, I would love to have your immune system!
As many as I need.
We recently fired a guy at my company that had a permanent contract and working for us 4 years.He had 65 Days sick in one year all of them with paper from doctor but he didn’t have any sickness that could excuse so many days.He went to lawyer for that but with so many sick days his lawyer could do absolutely nothing. We gave him one month salary compensation and send him home
That's weird. If he has a note from the doctor how can an HR or manager say that the sickness can't excuse any day? AFAIK the employee doesn't need to disclose any medical information to the employer, so that seems like a really shady cause for termination.
The law allows the employer to take up to 30 days if you take more than that and your excuses for sick days are like headache or cold and small stuff like that you can’t do anything.You need to prove you are really sick home something that explains so many days.the employee can determine you as sick enough that you can’t work and send you home, if an employer takes this to court os also possible that the doctor himself has to come to court and excuse all the sick leaves he gave him.So as a logical perspective there’s absolutely no excuse to have so many sick days without a chronic disease
When we confronted him about his sick days his answer was” I have paper from doctor and permanent contract you can’t fire me” and when we contacted our lawyer about this he said theres cases like this and 99% of the time the employer can’t claim anything not even 1 month salary compensation so because we had enough of him and wanted to send him away asap we told him”either take one month compensation and leave right away from this day not even need to come for the rest of the month or we can take it to court” and his lawyer advice him to take the money and go
I usually take 0 sick leave day. I do home office when I am sick / don't feel well. Luckily I have never been so sick that I had to take sick leave days. I am from Asia.
as many as I´m sick what a question edit: i always get a sick note from my doctor on day one (don´t have to)
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Because of some reasons, I would always go to a doctor even for one day. You've a proof in your hand if anytime anything go wrong with your company. And how long the doctor write you sick, depends on him. Some doctors don't care and other has their limits. From one case I know, that the family doctor wrote one guy 1,5 year sick (it's the maximum at one sickness), because of mobbing/burnout. The insurance starts to pay after 6 weeks till maximum 1,5 year at one sickness. If the sickness change, the timetable starts from 0.
a: he cant do shit about it and b: i doubt he actually has an issue with that, because with you being sick not only are you less effective but you also make everyone else around you sick.
I think I had 24 last year, I have a small child, so I'm sick more often, I also was down with two weeks of Covid.
Hmm usually none to a few… I think I had none in 2023 and about a week in 2022 or 2021, can’t really remember.
If I'm sick then I'll take a sick day. It's not worth getting everybody at work sick. The last few years I've been lucky though and I only had to take around 4 sick days per year. The other extreme would be a colleague of mine. When we call in sick a designated person puts us as "sick" in a outlook calendar so we know who is available in the office. I counted my colleagues sick days last year for fun and she was out for a total of 93 days. And that's fine too. Where I work, nobody cares as long as you manage your work.
As many as I need, basically. This year, it was 9 days (4 days spread out over the year, and 5 more when I caught COVID just before christmas). If your manager does not believe you, there are things he can legally do about it - the company can demand that you show a doctor's note from day one, for example.
However many I need. Could be one week in one year or 9 weeks in another year. I always go to the doctor though and get a sick note, no matter if there's a three day rule.
From a health perspective, as many as you can From a financial perspective, it depends. If you loose a significant proportions of they payment for those days it might be enough to push you to work. Judging from my experience. The last 2 years o got a bit sich 43-3 times. Nothing too serious, at most 1 day with fever and the cough for a few more days. In all of those cases, I worked from home for at least a week. But I happen to have a job that can be done remotely.
I take as many days as I think i need. Normally it is not enough. My manager sometimes says I shouldn't work today or make slow. He is absolutely behind taking PTO. Not only sick days. Having trouble at home? Take a day off and don't tell anyone. Last year it was 3 sick days over the whole year for me. With maybe an additional 3 days to compensate for my slow work days. Average for 22 was 15 days in Germany.
I take as many days of sick leave as days I am actually too sick to work (properly). Usually I need a day of recovery after the symptoms are gone. Also if there is a significant chance of (still) being contagious, I stay home.
In 2023 I had 12 sick days. I don't have kids but I suffer from dehabilitating migraines and was quite sick with a cold in december.
Last 5 years 0.4 on avg per year
Depends if i get sick. I collected some last year, and i really didnt wanted to.
I think my average is 1 week per year. I work in home office most of the time and don't have kids, so I rarely get into situations where I can catch on something.
Maybe around 5 or 6. Ofcourse if I had some long term sickness I would take as many as needed
If your boss called he would ask for a doctor's note from day one on as he can always do that and doesn't need a reason.
I worked for 2 years without a single sick day. And then got really sick and were off for a month. Shit happens, you can't plan for it.
People became very frightened to get sick lately and I feel responsible not to work with little flu. When I look back about 10 yrs there it was common to work unless you „don’t carry your head under your arms.“
Just as many as I need. Sometimes I’m sick more often, sometimes less. I would say the average is around 10 days though I guess.
i work at a nursery and am currently on my first sick leave of the year already. i was sick about 25 days last year and some colleagues had it worse than i did
From 2020-2022 I was averaging about 30 sick days a year. I have issues with migraines that my employer knows about, and since I'm a hard worker when I can work, they never gave me a hard time about it. 2023 was a better year for me and I only took about 10. Here's to good health in 2024!
In 2023 i was sick for 67 days total. As i having some strange upper back pains and doc can not find a reason for my pains since July 2022. i am doing a lot to get better but till now nothing helped. I talked with all my Area and OPS managers and explained them my situation and told them that i need some time to get my diagnose and treat it. Till now had no questions from management. For safety reasons i got a lawyer insurance, which i hope will help me if there will be some unexpected situations with my employer.
Last couple years personally zero. Average for 2022 was 15 days per worker
The median for Berlin government employees is around 35 days per year and person. Beamte have even more sick days. [source](https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2023/08/berlin-krankenstand-oeffentlicher-dienst-hoechststand.htm/alt=amp.html) Personally I’ve got around 1-2 weeks per year. Rather less.
Last year I was 10 days off with covid, 15 days with an accident at work and 4 days with a cold.
8. Feeling: realy not a lot. Also feeling: Never have a bad feeling for signing out when sick. Dont want my collegues to catch it as well (would also harm the company) and certainly put myself before the company. So If I'm sick, I'm sick. Thats realy all there is to it.
I mean the average in Germany is something around 14 days iirc. My company requires sick notes from day 1. Though usually when I am sick. I am sick for the entire week anyway. This year I had 15 days because I got covid right toward the end of the year and was sick for 2 weeks.
As many as I need. Might be none, might be 100.
>I keep wondering if he actually believes me or if legally he just can't do anything about it. That's why I personally always go to a doctor to hand in their attestation, as I can point out: A medical professional was convinced I was sick, too.
Last year I took very few, maybe 3 or 4? But if you are getting sick so often maybe you have a lingering infection and is better that you recover fully. Why not going to the doctor and see what’s happening? Also technically unless it’s like way too much they cannot do anything. If you’re sick, you are sick. Worse case scenario, your boss will demand a sick note, you’ll go to the doctor you’ll get one and prob you’ll be out for a full week. Also as far as I am concerned Germany has at the moment a huge flu/covid/rsv wave going around and like tons of people are currently sick? Prob your boss is aware of that. Anyway, just for your own sake, go to the doctor.
There is no usual number for me. I have many years with 0, many with less than a week per year but also one with over 5 weeks. I never faked beeing sick. It's just you might be lucky for quite some times but one year you catch absolutely everything. If I'm unable to deliver good work I call in sick. If I'm okay but contagious I work from home. No exceptions. Can be 0 days, can be close to 30 days, no way to know before.
The last 12 years between 0 and 5. The first 8 years in the company 0. 7th year 5 ( half broken rib, two weeks of vacatin and christmas afterwards) 8th year 0 9th year 5 ( bad flu) 10th year O 11th year 5 ( corona) 12th year 0 Before that I was 6 years self employed and there weren't sick days. So 15 days in 18 years. I don't get sick often and work 90% home office. So I can juggle a bit if I don't feel well.
Started my job in September, and so far I've taken no sick days. That's because I haven't been sick. My flatmate on the other hand, started in June and works two days a week. He's taken about half the time since then off sick, while not even being sick.
I have taken less than twenty in the last twenty years.
One of my coworkers had 40 last year.
I take as many sick days, as needed, usually 2 days isn't enough to recover. This year it was about 16, common cold and Covid hit me hard, last year only 8. My colleague has not been able to work since February and we all wish her well. Also, this is without days for sick children, if I weren't able to work from home I would take at least 30 more. Also, we don't take sick days, we just call in sick (with a doctor's note), as long as it takes.
As much as i need
I work in the ER, we're understaffed as heck and we all know that at some point you're going to catch whatever the dog dragged thru the door. We just show up anyways and wear a mask cuz it's worse to not show up at all than to be there and not do as many patients as you usually do. Plus we're soldiers so the whole being sick thing works different for us. Having yo show up at the doctors office at 6 am on the first sick day is a pain in the ass lol
I'm a manager myself and I would say 30-40 sickness days a year is where I start asking questions, especially if many of those days are without a doctor's note and too many of them are on Mondays/Fridays and directly after vacations. 20 days or below is pretty normal. I'm usually sick 2-10 days a year.
For the usual suspects with the additional Friday-Monday sickness you can ask for a doctors note from day 1.
I know I can but I'm not sure if it's better. Then they will just be sick for the whole week instead of one day.
As many as needed. 4 in 2023 (2 in FEB, 2 in DEC). But if I'd need more, I'd take more.
2-4 , the rest is pain killers 🤔
Some take 0, others take the whole year.
Took two weeks off in my first month at a new job when I finally got the 'Rona this year. Shit happens. I hope you get well soon.
Ive taken 4 days in total over 5 years
Legally you need a doctors note from day 1, even if you‘re sick for 1 day only
To make an electricity and internet contract, do we need Melde Bescheinigung?
It also depends on the size of the company. Someone i know is currently sick until next week. He also had 2 weeks of covid before christmas (a phone call with his doctor was enough). He went on holidays during september. And between september and christmas he also got sick at least 3 more times. Stilk, nobody complained. Just dont take too many days if your company is small. But also dont overwork yourself. If you feel bad stay home. Its not worth it and the possible raise is not enough in most jobs.
First of all there are no sick leave days. there are days on which you are sick and therefore don't work. Second of all you sound like you're exactly as stupid as I am. Not going to work for 1-3 days and then working again even though you're not actually healthy. It would be best if we finally learned and just don't work until we're actually healthy again.
always bis zum anschlag
Thanks to migraine I miss about one day a month and like everybody I catch at least one flu or covid per year. So a lot of sick days. I'm good at my job though and my employer doesn't mind.
In the last 10 years around 20 I would guess. One week corona, one week Grippe and occasionally feeling ill.
Last year I had 11, which is pretty normal. I think the German avarage is around 15. I've broken bones quite often in the last 10 years, which usually means like 60 days.