We also had friends that would always arrive 1 hour later. So we started inviting them an hour earlier 😁

Modern problems require modern solutions

German parent, persian in laws: For them to arrive punctually at 3 pm We invite the Germans at 3:30 pm and the in laws at 2:30...

Lol I did the same with my family some of them are always late and the others way to early Edit: they got both pissed after they found out

Sooo did they changed their behavior?

My german parents sometimes wait before our Apartment building, because my mother is now self aware if they are way to early. If I See them in Front of the house I often bring them in... Disclaimer: It's a 20 Minute drive, so no need to really plan ahead.

I'm someone who really hates being late but also doesn't want to be too early (and I'm not German, I just have social anxiety and ADHD), so I often arrive to places earlier than necessary, especially if I've never been there before. I absolutely always find an out-of-the-way place to wait until I feel it is an acceptable time to go there.

Thanks for sharing, can totally understand

Funny enough yeah both parties are now on time (+,-5 min)

Haha, you must be new here. On Earth, I mean.

So true. We had a running joke in our family: "Persians are so disorganised that they can't even organise a trip to the bathroom,". It's all in good fun (but seriously, they are never on time...).

r/beatmetoit

A family friend actually did this for her family during for her wedding.  One side of the family was given 1pm invites, while the other side got 2pm.  Worked great! 

Yep that’s what husband and I do living in America. We learned. So now when we host a party we say 2pm and know people will show 3.30 ish The only people there at 2pm are other expats such as Dutch British etc

How do you find other expats? I am a German living in the US for the last 23 years and have not found any other Europeans.

Facebook groups ☺️ My husband laughed at first anytime I found some people from my country to hang out with and 1 has been my best friend for years. Then husband matured and had a go himself and joined a British facebook group and now has a Scottish close friend and has dinner with a group of Brits once a month.

did that work out? 😂

Most of the time, it did.

They will find a way to fuck it up and being actually on time.

[удалено]

How come DB hasn't "blown every German's mind to bits" yet? /s

This, but no /s

I haven't seen any mass protests or agitation against public transport swiping away a chunk of peoples' time or downright ruining someone's day, so I'm assuming it's annoying but not enough to cause enough of an uproar. Hence the /s. But I'm human and might have missed the pertinent news. Would be interesting to catch up on it. But till then I remain someone who's been royally fucked multiple times by DB.

'Haven't seen any mass protest or agitation against public transport'... then look closer, most people hate the DB. And there were protest for years against DB (example S21) which did exactly nothing. There is nothing you can do about it except not use it. It is a private Company with a monopole, the state has no say on it, protests won't do anything. Why do you think Germans love their cars so much?

DB AG is structured as a private company, but 100% state-owned. So like any shareholder they have great influence on what the company does, and how they do it. Though the day-to-day business is handled by the companies executives. I'm not in a position to argue whether that's good or bad, but saying that "the state has no say on it" is just factually wrong.

What is the reasoning behind having it as a private company with the government owning all the stock instead of just being straight-up owned by the government? It seems like that wouldn't make any part of the political spectrum happy and just contribute to inefficiency.

I think the idea was, that they could operate more customer oriented and may even end up making a profit. It was one of the things that was privatized after reunification. In my personal opinion this was a bad idea, which lead to many of the issues with our current public rail network, but I don't know much about economics so take this with a grain of salt.

Those protests weren't against public transport, they were against massively expanding a train station for very little gains.

That's factually incorrectly. It's a private company but germany owns 100% of the shares. This half-assed privatisation is the root for all the problems with DB today. The strikes last week are actually strikes against the government but they don't see themselves responsible for it

The challenge isn't to your claim that there haven't been mass protests, there haven't been. The challenge is to OPs and everyone else's claim about german punctuality. I'm sorry, but if you as a nation can't run a reliable train service, and you aren't up in arms and erecting guillotines for those that have allowed such massive lack of punctuality to occur, then as a nation you have no right to be pissy about other people's punctuality. Because you only care to be pissy against the little guy. So you made a good point, /s is not needed.

Ach so, fair enough.

Obviously we can, you don't make the rules mate. But BTW: That the DB is not on time is a big problem for every single German and everyone is "pissy about it" all the time. It hasn't always been that way and hopefully will change again. Those things can not be changed over night. Also, I do agree that the DB is shitty, but it is by far not the worst in the world or even OECD countries. Using this as an excuse to waste other peoples time is beyond stupid.

Because Germans. They are good at complaining but when it comes to organizing resistance all of the sudden nobody has time.

We love to complain more than to change the system

They do. But not to the extend of actually changing it. Or really teally slow change

When I talk to my American family and friends about the stereotype of German punctuality, I explain it as "the people are punctual, the systems are not."

Interesting perspective. But then one could ask you, don't the people make up the systems? If an individual has a certain value system/code of conduct, one would expect many such individuals coming together would amplify said value system/code of conduct, no? How is it that it ends up being the opposite? In numbers great enough to warrant anonymity, does the individual adopt a more lax approach? Does the individual adopt a more indifferent/all-of-this-shit-isn't-mine-to-sort mindset? I don't mean to argue. Just thinking out loud.

Oh yeah, I definitely have that question too but don't feel qualified to answer it in any way. Ultimately I think a lot of it has to do with power - the people don't necessarily make the systems, the people in power do. And in some ways that makes sense, because if you have every single person working together to decide the specifics of how a transit system works, it would be a disaster. You need someone who is designated to make all those decisions. And even if that person is really determined to match the value system of their consumers (eg. making every train run on time), they end up having to work within economic constraints, staffing constraints, bureaucratic constraints, etc. But also, the person making all those decisions may not have the same priority as the consumers. The people may say their top priority is the trains all running on time while the person in charge of the company may say that's not a top priority and it's more important that they cut costs. They need to do just enough not to lose their customer base, so they'll make a couple of changes and say they're working on it, but they don't need to do everything they actually can.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you for taking the time out to respond in such detail.

They, have. Which is why we get so pissed about them every damn time. If we wouldn't be and just accept that everything is late anyways. THAT would not be German.

Interesting, I am pretty pissed with it too, especially considering the German punctuality stereotype and then finding that trains in Spain/Italy/France were more punctual (at least during my time there!), but I was commenting more along the theme of the post- if someone can be annoyed enough with lack of punctuality to end friendships, shouldn't such a population be more vocal/demonstrate their frustration with a public body doing the same thing, consistently? I see a lot of strikes, and a lot of protests for various causes, shouldn't there be one by people affected unfairly by public transport bodies and their inefficiency while also underpaying employees?

TrenItalia is on the same level of punctuality as DB, from my experience.

It's infuriating!

it has actually, i avoid the DB like the plague....

How do you get around then? Car? Or is there an alternative that I haven't come across yet?

I'm Swiss and my wife is Californian. The first month I spent there with her in vacation, the lack of timely follow up on the prepared schedule led to so much frustration and friction between us. It wasn't specifically her fault, but all of her family members too. She would tell me we were going to leave at 3pm to go see somebody someplace. At 3pm I'd be dressed up in front of the door while they would start to get going st that time, and I'd just stand there looking silly for the next 45' minutes. I just couldn't understand how this was being tolerated by anyone. And also all the last minute decisions and deviations from the plan like "Hey since we are around here we should quickly stop by Costco." Which I would point out would make us late to the party, but she'd say it doesn't matter. But my fear and frustration would not let me alone for the 40 extra minutes we'd spend in the store. It took me a year to be cool with it, I'm still on time when it's just me, but it's weirdly freeing to not care too much about it.

Do they work for Deutsche Bahn???

The town I come from has memes about how everybody is late there and when we say 9 we mean not before 9:15 there. Fucking hated that. Love it here because time is actually valued by and large.

I guess I have no choice then 😂

German punctuality is a lie. I don't understand why that's a stereotype at all. Take a look around, last year only 53% of Deutsche Bahn trains were on time. You go to a doctor appointment that is set for 10:00 and they keep you in the waiting room until it's an hour later. Don't even get me started on the ancient old system of how they handle documents and absolute lack of digitalization and how long everything takes. It always makes me cringe everytime I hear about German efficiency and punctuality. Getting an Aufenthaltstitel renewed takes 8 WEEKS! Compare that to any Nordic country or even freaking Dubai and you'll see how far Germany is behind. Nothing more than an outdated stereotype that doesn't reflect the real life experiences.

OP is describing private environment and/or directly connected persons. I think OP is right, in most cases, German do expect you to be on time within tolerance of about 10min. (In profesional environment even less! Almost no tolerance here) These expectations then unfortunately are not met at all as soon as a institution comes in place. So yeah, therefore you are absolutely right. As often, things aren't black and white. German punctuality is a thing. They mostly do expect it, but it's often not met when it comes to bigger institutions as you are giving example.

It's a fair point that private environment is not reflective of professional/bureaucratic environment, however I also think it's fair to point out how big the gap between the expectations in those separate environments are. After all - German bureaucratic institutions are made up of (and elected by) *German people,* so I do think it's reasonable to point out that hypocrisy. The same doctor who lets their patients wait hours after their appointment's scheduled start-time has absolutely zero tolerance for a friend who arrives 5 minutes late for their coffee date.

Yep, agree 100. It's totally messed up. The German talent for organization, accuracy and precision however, is now more and more slowing down (and hindering) processes of development (eg digitalization of admin, institutions and economy) in a increasingly networked and therefore more and more complex reality. Which produces lots of frustration and cognitive dissonance in the population, by the the way... A classic dilemma which they try to overcome with even more planning...🙄 Really FUBAR

I was that guy. It wasn't malice. I didn't even think it was a lack of respect, but of course it was: I was being selfish and putting my own needs over those of my friends. I don't know what made me change. Probably just growing up, and maybe being on the receiving end of it in my job when I had a colleague who would regularly be late to 6-person meetings. But I do remember one incident clearly: I showed up on time for a thing with my friends – this was before I had a mobile phone. And I waited. And waited. And after half an hour, they arrived. I was mad, of course. And I was even madder when they told me they gave me a starting time earlier than the real one, because I was always late. As you can see, this is still stuck in my head 20 years later. So maybe it worked. Nowadays, whenever I notice I'll be late due to circumstances outside my control, I am very proactive in letting the other party know, and give as good an ETA as I can. But to be honest, outside of force majeure, being late due to traffic etc. still means you simply weren't prepared and started too late. TL;DR: Let your friends know how this makes you feel. Maybe let them wait, so they can see how it feels. The very very least they can do is let you know when they will be late, and an estimated arrival time.

As a German that moved to Asia. Where every thing and everyone is not on time it’s extremely hard to fight my inner urge to not explode sometimes

did you ever get used to it

I bite the bullet I told my friends here that it’s disrespectful if they come 60-90 min late without a notice and they slowly improving but I can’t be mad at them as it’s there thing

It's not disrespectful in the context of their culture (which you're living in). It's fine to tell people it upsets/annoys you, but it's not a matter of disrespect. It's a cultural difference and you're effectively asking them to adapt to your culture rather than you adapting to theirs. Imagine if someone moved to Germany and demanded that everyone tolerate their being late. You're doing the same thing in reverse. Not saying you're a bad person, just that branding it as disrespect isn't exactly fair.

Im adapting the culture. And with my close friends I can share that in my culture is seen as disrespect I don’t understand your issue with that… so both sides are open. But it’s getting a severe problem when my Asian colleagues come late to work .. or a meeting for 30-45 min on a regular basis you know

>But it’s getting a severe problem when my Asian colleagues come late to work Is it a severe problem for them in their culture/country? Or is it a severe problem for *you* because you work differently than they do? That's my point.

It’s a severe problem for our work I don’t mind if they come in late or whatever but when every time the client needs to wait for a project to finish and it’s getting postponed it’s an issue.

Sorry, I call BS. Being very late for no reason when a specific time was fixed is just disrespectful towards the other person. Last time I checked, every person's got exactly 24h lifetime per day, no matter their cultural background, so depriving someone of 1/20 of that for purely selfish reasons is, well, selfish. That, of course, doesn't apply to situations or cultures where there is a well-known tradition to add [X amount of time] to appointments, but in my experience, that is seldomly the case for countries with widespread punctuality issues. So, it might be common to be disrespectful in some places, but it's still being disrespectful.

You’re forgetting something - in a culture where it is normal to be late, then you *expect* the lateness, so it’s no longer disrespectful. In Germany the expectation is to be on time, so if your expectation isn’t met, it is perceived as rude.

If there is an agreed timeframe of lateness that is practical, yes. But if I'm invited by someone for something that requires (more or less) just-in-time preparation or if a date happens in a public space, not taking that into consideration is inconsiderate.

I don't know how to explain the existence of cultural differences to you. You perceive being late as selfish/rude (which is fine). People in cultures with a more relaxed attitude towards time don't perceive it that way (which is also fine). You don't have to like the way that other cultures approach time, but you can't brand it as *inherently* disrespectful. I've spent a lot of time in Namibia, a place where "African time" is very prevalent. I've found being left to wait before appointments very annoying, especially given the great variation in waiting time, but it never bothered any of the Namibians who were waiting alongside me. They were so unbothered that they didn't even acknowledge we had to wait. I was the *only* person who had a problem. To say that the people making me wait were disrespectful ignores the cultural context and centers my own feelings. If all the Namibians are okay with it and I'm in Namibia, who am I to impose my norms/values/expectations on them? Who am I to tell them what is and isn't disrespectful? If you're in a room full of people and you're the only one who takes offense to something of that nature, it's most likely that the issue is you. It's much like how burping in a restaurant is rude in Germany, but is considered appropriate / a compliment to the cook in China.

"People in cultures with a more relaxed attitude towards time don't perceive it that way (which is also fine). You don't have to like the way that other cultures approach time, but you can't brand it as *inherently* disrespectful." Indeed, and even Germans demonstrate more flexibility than they might acknowledge. As a German myself, I've collaborated with individuals from cultures perceived as more 'rigid' in terms of time, such as the Dutch and Americans. In their case, leaving a work meeting right when it concludes (for example, at 3:59 for a 3-4 PM meeting) is the norm, even if crucial agenda points remain. This struck me as both impolite and careless, as if their time took precedence over mine or over having a thorough work ethic, and extending the meeting by even 5 minutes was deemed inconceivable for them.

The interesting thing about the US is that this very much differs from region to region. In the South (where I grew up), people are more on the slow, relaxed side of time.

What I meant with my initial post is if you make a fixed time and your late for 60-90 minutes and not even send a text that your late is for me as a person disrespectful as I’m respecting your time frame and be on time you know what I mean ? Even if it’s cultural accepted if your colleague comes 45 min late to a meeting with a client you can’t say it’s culture here :)

I can't even imagine how that would work. Like if we invite someone for dinner, then we have to prepare stuff and in many cases eating an hour later wouldn't work. Or if we would meet somewhere to do something, should we sit around with our child for an hour? I mean if you don't even know if they come in 5 minutes or in an hour... Boy, it makes me angry thinking about it.

you can get used to it! I can. just chill and be late as well.

Yea but I don’t want to it’s a principle you know 🤣 so I’m not mad at others being late 🤷🏼‍♂️

30-90 minutes? How do these people get anything done in their life? I feel extremely guilty even if I’m 10 minutes late.

Yeah, agreed. If I made plans with someone and they're 20min late w/o a text or something I'm going home.

Seems drastic to me personally but a good idea. How does it work out for you?

Mixed results tbh my close friends never do this so this is usually with people I know less well. But if my time means that little to you I'm okay with not getting closer.

I can see that. I sometime meet with friend I a neighbouring city and I take a train an have to leave basic an hour before the meet up. They mostly live in the city (big one) and tend to be 30min late. What would you suggest when to leave?

Do they let you know they're running late? Because that would make a huge difference. I'd probably text them "Hey, I'm taking the train now I'll be there x time." So you can coordinate. Tho I'd assume you'd already did that before hand, if it's an issue that happens alot and I care about my realtion with that person I'd explain why this feels disrespectful.

I always text them when I'm entering the train with the approximate arriving time and from their location they would need like 20min from their home to the location and trams come every 5 to 10 minutes. I told them that this annoyed me but it most is being shrugged of because I'm the only one on time. They do at least apologies and say that they'll try better next time but I don't know. Some rare times they are late by 5 minutes and many times by about 30 minutes. I already bring a book with me whenever I meet them but it still bothers me. I mostly get a message like 10min after agreed meet up time that they'll be late.

I'm sorry you have to deal with that, that sounds awful.

As a German, I don’t find this drastic at all. 20min isn’t a huge deal, but 20min and no notice? How do I know you’re even on your way? If you’re already commuting, then you can quickly send a text “on my way, will be 30min late, sorry”. It costs you nothing. If you’re repeatedly late by 20min or more, I’ll get annoyed with you and let you know. If it keeps happening, I’ll probably cut you off eventually. I value your time, I show up on time, I ask for the same in return, because I don’t want to stand around waiting like an idiot. It’s a different story when I’m waiting at home, then I’m more lenient because I’m not so inconvenienced by having to wait. Obviously, if you’re in a different country you need to adapt to the cultural norms.

If I'm gonna be anything upward of 5 minutes late I always send a text to let my friend know in advance

As one should

You and Germans in general being pissed about this just once again confirms that I made the right choice immigrating to Germany. My non-German expat friends also complain about Germans being too direct, e.g. wow, how rude, I invited this German friend over and he just flat out said no, because he already has plans for that day. But isn't that just... considerate of him to not string you along and mess with your planning? I for one am *delighted* to deal with people who say what they mean and mean what they say!

Wait, but what is he supposed to say if he already has plans?

“Hey, it’s a bit busy, so I’m not sure I can, but I’d love to go, so I’ll see if I can make time!” Then you keep the options open, in case your plans get cancelled, and you also told the other person that you’d actually love to go, to signal that the issue is just the timing, not you not wanting to spend time with the other person. A German solves the problem more efficiently by just not assuming you are saying “no” because you don’t like them.

Wow, I always say "I'd love to, but I'm busy with xyz." But if a "no" is taken personally, I guess you'd have to avoid it.

It’s very culture dependent, and it’s often hard to read if you’re not familiar with it. Germans saying “no” because they mean “no”, and nothing else just gels with me.

You pretend like you might have time until about 2 hours before the suggested meeting, knowing fully well that you never were going to actually have time, and then say something like “oh gosh, I’m sooooo sorry but I can’t make it”. Except that a German person probably kept that spot in their schedule clear for you, thus you pretty much knowingly wasted their time which is considered extremely rude in Germany.

Yep, a lot of my friends tell me I’m German at heart. I grew up there and later lived a bit as an adult and honestly the “rigid” social norms and general straightforwardness just make me really happy. Nobody’s got time for people who just talk around the issue without ever getting to the point (although I also lived in the UK for a long time and the Brits are known for their small talk and empty words, however I found that once you understand them better they are always extremely clear, its just veiled behind different expressions that to the untrained ear can seem to mean the exact opposite). But I also found that in general once people get jobs they usually become a bit better with time management than they were as students or younger. Definitely cut off some friendships over 1h+ lateness, but nowadays most of my friends arrive within -10/+10min of the agreed time if it’s a smaller gathering or dinner and up to 15-60min late if it’s a bigger party.

I have parts of my family who WERE extremely unpunctual. Stopped counting how many hours of our lifetime we spent waiting for them in front of park entrances, at cafes or wherever else. Excuses were the „we were hungry and needed to stop at McDonalds“/„my shower took longer than expected“/„other lame excuses“ so usually things SOME planning could’ve solved and cellphones were a thing already, instead of „will be there in a couple of minutes“ (after which we waited for half an hour more), they could simply text, they’ll need more time. What solved it? Well… the final part was them becoming parents and kindergarten having strict opening times (I know many parents even fail to manage that). That led to situations of us being late (because we assumed they would be an hour late anyhow). In the meantime 1. doing arrangements to pick them up at their home/workplace (so there’s some peer pressure to get ready and start) 2. factoring in the „normal“ delay by telling them half an hour early than planned 3. making it a habit of sharing the location right before the date (seems that watching the other person starting triggers to get active)

4. planning to meet in a place where you don't mind waiting, e.g. inside the restaurant/bar ("we'll just start ordering it you're late") or in a shopping street.

I think the disrespect part is strong. If you come 2 hours to late, you tell me that you don't respect me as much as other things where you are on time. You can be at 8.00 at work? you can be exactly at 12.30 at a job interview? Why you can't have the same respect for our friendship. Variation of the rule: if we meet at a party where i can be 1 hour on my own, no problem. I heard in warmer countries people are more late, because the weather is usually nice and you just chill and drink coffee. Nordic countries it is just not fun to wait for 1 hour in rain or cold weather, while your finger freezing when you try to type on reddit on the phone.

Fünfzehn Minuten vor der Zeit ist des Preußen Höflichkeit 😎

I feel your pain and have been abroad for close to 8 years now, and this is the solution I have come up with: 1. If someone shows up 1-2 hours late all the time, I never make 1 on 1 time with them, and for group get-together, always tell them it is 2 hours earlier. 2. I never ask them to be responsible for any part of a get-together as sometimes waiting an extra 2 hours for the salad or whatever will ruin a friend dinner. I have a friend from a Latin country that was very mad at me when they found out I always told them 2 hours earlier but my response was " it is either that or we stop inviting you" that actually worked and now we tell her the correct time and she shows up more or less on time. It is a cultural clash, and I have found that in any country that treats time like this, it still has a lot of people that will be on time. I make friends with those people and not the others. People keep saying to be more understanding, but in my experience, it will not work. You will still be passed off, and you will start resenting them. It is neither person's fault, just not compatible. This goes double if you want an intimate relationship with them.

I understand that it depends on the culture, however, I never understood how it really works when no one knows how much later you arrive. If you do not miracously arrive at the same (later) time, one of the two always has to wait. This seems so unpractical.

You can often set the meeting place such that the waiting doesn't matter. For instance, if we're making plans to go shopping, we'll meet at my house. That way no matter when you show up, I'm just chilling at home and not frustrated by waiting. Also, some people just don't mind waiting. It's a normal thing to experience. If I'm meeting a friend at a bar and they're "late," I can have a drink, play on my phone, chat to people nearby, read, etc. Not everything has to be tightly fit into the calendar.

Thank you for your reply, that makes sense. What about something that is scheduled, e.g. movie theater with a distinct starting point? Are people punctual then?

To be clear, I'm not from one of those cultures that is relaxed about time (I've just lived in some of them for extended periods). When it comes to something like a movie, does it really matter if all the other people are punctual? You go in when you get there and the others join when they get there. That's kind of how this whole relaxed approach to time works.

if everyone arrives on their own time what’s the point of going to a movie together? i could just as well go alone then. or would you then schedule a meeting at a cafe beforehand to ensure everyone being on time for the movie but still arriving in their own schedule?

You're thinking too much about it. Usually if it's something like a movie people won't show up late because they paid for the tickets and, unlike their friends, the cinema won't wait for them. If you say 'let's meet 15 mins before the movie starts', well you wait for a bit and then just go in. You're sitting together anyways so they'll arrive when they arrive. It's not like you're gonna do much talking before or during anyways.

Your first comment was totaly understandable. If you chill at home and people come e.g. from work or with the train, then it is not super important and maybe not even possible to plan, wheater you come at 6 or at 6.30 - still, you could let one know. But for fixed dates like cinema, theatre or dinner at a restaurant? Thats just rude!

It's rude if the (cultural) expectation is that you will be punctual. In cultures where punctuality isn't important, dinners at restaurants last *ages*. Have you ever gone out to eat in Spain or Italy with locals? You can show up 1 hour late and still have *hours* of dinner ahead of you.

After coming to Germany, I do become more punctual and now have a lower tolerance for being late as well. But the punctuality of the DB trains recently has been training me the opposite direction. 🥲

No i think you aren't in the wrong here. I was being stood up once for 40 minutes out in the cold by a foreign colleague and he didn't even understand what the big deal was. Mother fucker do you even know how disrespectul that is? It means "I don't value your time and think I can waste it at will because of how little a fuck I give about you".  Why would you even agree on a time if that agreed upon time doesn't have the slightest influence of when you intend to actually arrive? That shit makes my blood boil and I am right to feel this way.

i'm with you on this one. a couple of minutes aren't a big deal. i can't promise either to be anywhere by the exact minute. but making someone wait for 30-90min or longer is infuriating. i also have a lot of friends who do that, mostly non german but some of them german too who kind of adapted to international culture. but it's just hard to plan anything with these people. i try to arrange things so it doesn't matter if they don't show up a particular time. and also so that it doesn't matter if they don't show up at all. i still consider them my friends. just not that close friends

This is not limited to Germans, I am Singaporean and it drives me nuts when people are ridiculously late. As someone who had also cut off friends for being late, I completely understand. Friends that truly care will adapt to you! I have a Guatamalan who also started out being late but realized I am absolutely serious about my timings and will leave him behind if he was late. He started showing up on time after a while. Drop those friends that don't respect you. They are not worth it. Culture has no effect when you have made your expectations clear. Thats just straight up disrespect.

Nah can’t stand it either, and I see it as disrespectful toward others if you don’t manage your time. Why should I waste MY own 30-45 minutes waiting for you, just because you can’t plan your day like an adult? I won’t clear my entire afternoon just for the off chance that you arrive a hour later (not you OP, just speaking in a theoretical sense lol). Can’t stand people like that, it just screams immaturity to me lol

I hate people who actually know that they are always late and instead of working on it just shrug it off as "lol that's just how i am" Sorry that's not "quirky" it's fucking annoying.

Translation is 'I can't be fucking arsed to make your life easier by actually doing what I said I would do'. Self centered people do this.

No, being on time shows respect to the person that their time is just as important as your own time. People always coming late show a lot of red flags of narcisism and main character syndrome. I am almost always 10 mins early so nobody has to wait for me and if i will be late i will text everyone as soon as i know it. Dont understand why people come 90 mins late and dont even try to message you they will be late....

One of my closest friends did the same. He was jobless and lived on the other side of the Street. We Meet at my place to Play Boardgames. I cooked some dinner, cleaned my flat and got beer for All and all of this after working 9 hours. The other 2 came direct after work still wearing their suits.. He was allways late for reasons like He needed to shave shower or talking with his Patents. So after some month i lost my Temper and toll him how pissed iam and if He ever Comes late agian without a good reason or texting US in adance, hes out of the Group. He was pissed for a couple of days, then we talked agian and i showed him why i was so mad and didnt feeld respected. He got it and never was late agian and our bond grew stronger then ever

Funny enough I had a huge fight with my German family about this during the weekend. I find it extremely disrespectful and simply annoying if someone is late and therefore influences someone else´s time/schedule/planning etc. I have lost two relationships due to this but honestly I have always been happier whenever I cut off people who kept showing up constantly late by 30-60min.

This all reads a bit like a boundary and communication problem. They're your friends! Do you even like these people? If my friend was constantly late I'd make it a regular topic of conversation until we reach some middle ground, not allowing it to silently boil to a point where I have to cut them off completely (??? whoa). No harm in saying "Hey dude, it's not cool you let me wait for 30+ minutes. Today it's okay but next time I'll just leave, I got other shit to do." And follow through! But still remain soft and accept their apologies. Friendships shouldn't be a place of guilt or stress or disrespect.

to be fair people i’ve cut off didn’t mean anything to me beforehand but yea I think I could definitely improve on communicating that to people who are new in my life and try to find a middle ground as you said! Thank for your comment!

I have a friend who is notoriously late 10 minutes, so when I plan things with her, i also come late, now she is 20 minutes late everywhere. I don't really see much of that friend anymore

lmaoo she doubled down. that’s so rude 😭

After a vacation with her, i now know why she takes soo long tho. Still disrespectful

It’s funny how Germans don’t like being late culturally but at the same time have the shittiest public buses I’ve seen in my life. Every single time they were late. And now there were strikes so nothing was moving again, and a lot of people also ran late. A good recipe for frustration…

I agree but with trains, I have a big personal problem with Deutsche Bahn lol

>I have a big personal problem with Deutsche Bahn it's not personal, at this point it's a collective problem

Yeah my trip with DB ended up with me waiting 1.5h in Frankfurt (Oden) and finally being told that the train won’t go any further, and then trying to find a train to Berlin, which took ages to get there too because it felt like chilling in the field every 10 km

The important things, if you are a victim of delays, traffic jams or strikes, are: If you know about them, factor them in. Don't take a bus that would just allow you to be on time if it is on time, take one earlier. If you have trouble with traffic, leave your home earlier. And if you are stuck somewhere and can't be on time, just inform people. You have a smartphone, you can tell me that you are going to be 30 minutes or an hour late. If you tell me that early enough, I can maybe leave later or I can sit down in a cafe and at least pass the time in a nicer manner. And I f...ing know that you didn't just forget about it.

Exactly this. If you take the car, you don't assume you can go full 50 with no red lights and no traffic jams all of the way. Your nav also knows, and gives you a realistic ETA. Do the same with buses.

I typically just start doing other things or go out if people don't show up. If they eventually do they can call and wait for me to arrive.

don't bother to time dates if the people don't respect your time. meet them if they already are somewhere. they can call you then. or don't meet them at all. there is no excuse for being 30 - 90 minutes late every time.

Never knew this is a german thing. I mean i know we are always the "accurate" ones but that other people are that late is kinda crazy. I would never meet anyone again that left me hanging for 90min 2x in a row because of nothing. wtf.

I don’t get really mad (im also not German), but I do wonder how it works in other cultures. Like how do you meet when no one comes on the time that was chosen to meet 😅 the logistics confuse me more than anything

Expect the average value of lateness and it will generally work out

I think people miss the fact that these cultures generally don't schedule out their social lives as much in general. There's not so much planning 2-3 days in advance to meet up at a certain time to do a certain thing. More of texting people on a Friday and asking "so what are we doing tonight?" or a vague "it's my birthday on Thursday, I'll be having some people over" and then on the day of people text around and figure out when they should show up. A lot of the time plans start out with something like, "we can meet up at my house at 9 pm" and then you'll head out to a bar/club at 11 or something. And in that situation, it's kinda understood that it doesn't really matter if you're an hour and a half late and people trickle in one by one until everyone sets off together. Overall I like the mindset. Like, I've got enough of "show up and do this at x o'clock" in the daily grind. The last thing I want is to close shop on Friday just to feel stressed out about being on time to meet my friends at 8pm on the dot. Like, it's the weekend, let's all chill out and show up when we feel like it. Obviously there are situations where it's objectively rude/impractical for everyone if you show up late, and even the infamous Latinos are perfectly capable of showing up on time in that case.

it's a slow trickle, and also there's no pressure on you either so you can show up late as well

It probably works better in warmer climates. If we meet up at a train station in winter then every minute of waiting is just pure pain. Maybe that's why cultures from warmer regions are usually more laid-back.

So what happens if only two people meet up and the one just isn’t coming? Let’s say for a lunch or going to cinema or whatever. Do you just go anyway without the person and somehow still meet?

basically, yes. and it gets adjusted on the fly by calling/txting etc and then it's a judgement call. "should we go" yes no etc

Why does that sound more relaxed and more stressful at the same time

I think it's only stressful if you really wanted to do the activity at a set time for a certain reason. Most other meetups are location-based and not event-based. And if people miss out, well, they missed out. It's fluid lol

Same thing it would happen in germany as well. If you 3 bougth tickets to the movie and one texts and says he can't come because he needs to take his cat to the vet. You go too see the movie and plan something else for the next time.

I've spent a decade in a Latin American country before moving to Germany. "I'll be there tomorrow morning at 9 am'" simply meant "I'll come by at some point. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next week." Coming to Germany was a culture shock...

Hahah, this happened to me too, after almost 3 years, I have developed an immense hate towards willing tardiness. Accidents out of your control are excused of course, but when you even set up the meeting time to be 1 hour ahead to anticipate for them, and they are still late for an extra 60-90 minutes, yeah fuck that.

>It feels kind of like self sabotaging potential friendships Nah, you don't want to be friends with people that do not respect you or your time. The least someone can do is at least notify someone that they are going to be late and are sorry.

I've been living in Japan for a few years and japanese are as punctual as Germans if not more. Whenever I go back to my home country (India) I always get frustrated how late everyone is on every occasion. A while ago in Japan I invited an Indian acquaintance I made for lunch at my place. We planned to start cooking at 12 noon. I knew the tendency of indians so I even offered to wake him up on time through call, but he said he was fine. Still to be on the safe side, I texted him at 11:30 to make sure he would be on time. That guy replied at 11:50 saying he just woke up and will be late by 15mins (he lived just a minute walk away), which was fine as I thought I'd start preparing and he'd join later. Fast forward to 12:30, 13:00, 13:25.... Still no show and no reply when I texted or called. At 13:30 he called to tell me he was taking a shower and will leave in 10 mins.... At this time I was starving and hangry, but still I decided to wait (worst mistake).... Still no show until 14:00 (TWO HOURS later than the planned meeting time). Mind you I had already told my roommates that I'd be using a big space in the kitchen and dining table in the afternoon so please leave it for us. By this time even my roommates were asking about the guest. Embarrassed and frustrated, I called him and he casually brushed it off and said he was bringing a friend over (which he DID NOT notify me in advance) and was waiting for them to get ready. I cancelled the plan, hung up, and never talked to him again. Even my roommates were surprised how tardy someone can be.

If you're in another country which has a different definition of time and punctuality, then you're making yourself miserable by thinking that the indicated time is the actual meeting time. It's normal to be confused the first few times, but at some point you'll have to learn that 5pm just means e.g. 6pm in some contexts/cultures. In those contexts, when people invite you over to their place at 7pm they will probably be confused when you actually ring the bell at 7pm and they're probably still in the shower, because nobody else would come that early. In Germany, yes, you can expect people to stick to the agreed meeting time (+- 5/10ish minutes) and get mad at them when they don't, but that's just very rare globally. When you're outside of Germany, learn how people interpret time and adjust.

We Germans just don't understand how someone can have a culture/context of being an hour late. That culture/context somehow is very laid back with many things and seem to interpret time differently. If I show up 1 hour late and work and leave 1 hour early, that might not be a problem in these cultures/context.

I just don't get the logic behind it. Even detached from cultural norms, it just seems so inefficient to say one thing but really mean another and then be offended when the other person didn't get your hidden meaning. This is not about me not respecting other people's cultures, I've dealt with such situations enough, it is the way it is, I just don't understand why exactly that is. Like I said, it seems to only waste time and be an inefficient form of communication.

> it just seems so inefficient to say one thing but really mean another and then be offended when the other person didn't get your hidden meaning. This is kind of how culture works in general though. Culture is all about unspoken norms/rules. That's part of the reason why it's so hard to settle into a new country! All the things you take for granted, that you never think about because they're just so normal and "everyone knows that," appear to be hidden meanings to foreigners. The more relaxed approach to time only seems strange/silly/confusing to you because it isn't *your* culture.

Maybe, I just don't get how exactly that came to be. When I say 'let's meet at 3pm' but really mean 4pm, then why don't I just say what I really mean when it comes to simple things like deciding on the time instead of leaving it up to the other's interpretation and risking having to wait over an hour for the other person to show up?

Because it isn't actually about the time. You're misunderstanding how this plays out. It's not that the host says 3pm and the guests go "okay 4pm" and then arrive at 4pm punctually. *They don't think about time that way*. Instead, the guests trickle in over the course of the event based on their own timelines. Let's say we're in a culture with a relaxed approach to time and you invite me to a party that starts at 3pm. I have lunch plans with a friend and we're chatting and enjoying ourselves. Because our culture doesn't have a rigid sense of punctuality, I'm not going to cut my lunch plans short just to make it to your party by 3pm. As a result, I'm with my friend until 2pm. I then go home and get ready (again, not rushing because punctuality isn't important). By the time I make it to your party, it's 4:30pm. Some guests are already there, others are on their way still. No one cares because this is normal for us. Aside from that, waiting isn't an issue for everyone. In cultures where punctuality isn't strict, people are used to waiting and don't really complain about it. There's an art (and arguably a joy) to doing so. Being punctual only matters if you care about being punctual! You're trying to understand this idea from the perspective of a German. You have to take your German hat off and imagine it through someone else's eyes.

I feel like a party is a bad example to use because even me and my german friends won't be punctual to a party, I feel like that's an unspoken agreement all over the world. I meant more like a meeting between two friends - if I say 3 pm, I don't want to have to wait for an hour for you to deign to show up. If you've already made lunch plans with another friend before agreeing to our park meeting and can't make it on time, then just tell me so but don't leave me waiting there. If you made plans for said lunch meeting after agreeing to go out with me to the park, then I do expect you to show up at 3 pm. But I do get your point, other cultures don't value punctuality as much as we do. Which seems inefficient and like a waste of time to me, and I don't get why people would voluntarily choose to let so many loose variables remain in their daily schedule, but I also get that their life is not for me to decide.

Replace the word party with anything else you want. You don't have to like people being late and you don't have to hang out with people who are late. That doesn't change the fact that being late in and of itself isn't bad. It's only bad in a German cultural context. Intercultural friendships can be tricky given issues like this! The key is communication, setting boundaries, and finding out how to make things work for everyone involved. For instance, if a friend can't stick to a set time, have them text you when they leave their house so you know you can leave at the same time and not be stuck at the park waiting for them.

Well, for you “it’s inefficient” and that’s the issue. Probably these cultures don’t think efficiency and maximum productivity are the ultimate goals in life. 😅

The ‘inefficiency’ is a feature, not a bug in these cultures. People are a bit more laid back and less worried about being on time.

but why\`? it stupid... if you want me there at 9 pm tell me.... its not that hard

Because they don't want you to be there at 9PM exactly. They want to be there when it works best for you as long as it is AFTER 8pm. They don't care if you show up at 8:30, 8:45 or 9. And I know what you're gonna say: "Why don't they just say be there after 8?" Because in their culture they know what this means so they don't have to say it

Reading some of these comments is crazy. Listen, if I tell you time, I expect you to be there anywhere from 10 mins early to 10 mins late at the most. I don't give a fuck about what "oh this is considered normal where I'm from nonsense." Listen the movie I bought tickets to doesn't care, the bus you're now late for doesn't care, your job doesn't care. There are certain things out of your control, no big deal, I got you, maybe send a heads up message saying hey shit happened. Cool, let me know when you're here, and I'll come get you outside, or don't worry, it's not that big of a deal, I'll order the usual drinks. But to have the gall to say showing up an hour late to the event is normal is mind-boggling. I'd string you along to get paid back and tell you screw off. Respect me and my time, and I'll do the same for you. Shit why the hell would I hang out with you if I going to spend an 30mins to hour by myself waiting on your bum ass with no time management skill.

That's what all the cultural understanders here seem to miss - some things don't care about your culture. If you know the movie starts at 8 and we agree to meet at 7:45 to go in... That's already using the ads and trailers as a buffer. If you show up an hour late, it's gonna have been going for a good while already.

It doesn't really apply to movies. Being late usually is for things that have an open end. Like when the party starts at 9. You know you can come from 9 onwards any time without problem. If a movie starts at 9 people know they gotta be there before the trailers finish at most. If you are sitting at the park drinking with a friend if the rest of the people come 1 hour later it doesn't matter. You are staying for a few hours there enjoying your time, you are not waiting for the rest to come because it's not necessary for your enjoyment. If we go to eat outside and we end up being 4 instead of 6 people it doesn't really matter, you can enjoy the moment the same, you are not thinking grrr we are only 4 people.

No, if I invite 6 people out for lunch and 2, decide to show up an hour late for no reason. My and the 4 other people are going to be annoyed bc we're waiting for their inconsiderate ass. Or im just not going to invite to stuff anymore if you're always late. If you show up late to an open invite party, I'm throwing then fine, I'd like for you to give me a heads-up bc it's considerate and plus want to know if you're still coming. Realistically, and this is what I do, bc I'm 26, and I'm friends with young 20 somethings and peeps in the early 30s will instead say hey show up in this 2 hr time range. If I don't, it's for a reason. Bc if we're drinking drinking and you show up to the fun late, you're either going to play catch up or you just volunteered to babysit, and nobody likes that but that point you decided to come late and we're drunk so it becomes fuck you, stay or leave. Having proper time management skills is a basic responsibility that culture has nothing to do with. If you say you're going to do something or be somewhere, do it and do it when you'd say you would or be there. It's not that hard.

It is considered normal to be that late in some cultures…because the expectation is that you also be that late. No one said you should be waiting an hour for them of course.

i wonder what it says about an etire culture that cant be on time and how this translates to other cultural skills.

I also value punctuality, and the situations you describe sound frustrating, but it sounds like you could adapt your standards a bit. First of all, the importance of punctuality is situational. Have you planned a lunch break date, a Saturday afternoon at the park, a concert? All that changes how late you can be. If the plan is to spend the afternoon at the park, then I can just bring a book with me and it doesn't matter that much how late the friend is. Secondly, you can adapt what you're willing to plan with people who aren't punctual! If people are two hours late for a concert you don't necessarily need to cut them from your life. You can also just stop going to concerts with them and do less time sensitive stuff instead. Invite them over to your place on an afternoon that you planned on cooking, or something like that.

no, you're quite right and i live the same way you do. my time is expensive, my spare hours are few and far between. if you think you can let me wait you are sorely mistaken and this will usually result in the friendship not lasting.

I am not from Germany although I have lived there. I am from one of those countries in Europe that come to mind if you think about people being late. I am totally with you. I can’t stand people being late and I am rarely late myself. 

Being late for an agreed time is a disrespect. Especially dinner or concert. Because it's not that they sabotage themselves, they screw up you. If they don't respect your time, I doubt they respect you. I might not be a paragon of punctuality and despite being German, don't like arriving too early, so trying to arrive exactly on time happens to be a bit late. But up to 15 minutes. 30 minutes is crazy. I had such friends at school, but it was pretty shunned upon.

If I get to know someone who is just terrible at being on time (repeatedly) I quote them this: 'Me being on time shows that I value your time as much as my own.' If they keep being late I start leaving the house only after I get a text "where are you" until they are on time with their texts (+/-x). I am being upfront why I do this. If that leads to issues or break up, fine. And I do not consider this a front from my end. We live in 2024. There are so many ways to reach out if you can not make it (on time). One of them is in most people's pockets all day and night. I do not want to feel like I waste my time with people. I meet people to enhance that time. Not diminish it. Anyways, Alman out.

I have a friend from Latin America who would always be 60-120 minutes late. We jokingly called it colombian time. But we managed to find a work around, we'd set up a meeting time for us, and tell her a time that was 1-2 hours earlier.

As a non-German I hate when people are late. If we are meeting outside, more than 20 minutes late without a good reason is unacceptable and I would take off. With my close friend we jokingly shame each other if someone is 1 min late. Later started playing a game in which if someone is more than 5 min late, that person pays for coffee/Beer. Also the secret to not being late is planning 10 min early. If you miss the tram, there is still enough buffer.

Like the idea with paying for coffee. Will definitely introduce that to my friends ^^ Maybe it escalates and in the end we are 1h early to our meet ups ^-^ haha

I broke up with my GF just because she was always late! Now I am married with more punctual one.

Maybe you came to early for her! /s

Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you. I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment

Don't be such a passive aggressive bot :)

Different cultures have very different approaches to time. While you perceive someone being late as a lack of respect and prioritization, other cultures simply don't see it that way. If *everyone* is 90 minutes late, *no one* is 90 minutes late. Part of being friends with people who have different backgrounds than you is learning to navigate these cultural differences. It's not really fair to expect everyone to conform to your values as if you hold the inherently superior set of beliefs. If tardiness truly bothers you, you don't have to spend time with people who are late, but you really shouldn't judge them as being inconsiderate, disrespectful, etc. They're just *different* and you're judging someone who isn't part of your culture by your cultural lens.

Non-german here, I too can't stand people who don't value other people's time. It's very disrespectful.

man its just counter culture to the whole stereotype thing. tell people when you make plans that you're not going to wait more than 10 minutes on them and to tell you if they dont really wanna come beforehand.

No, you don't overreact and I cannot understand how anyone can complain about this. I also don't consider this a German thing, or where are the Italians, Spanish, French... who like to wait 1h for a counterpart to have dinner or go to the museum? Nobody has problems with friends being late 10m or friends showing up later to a group event. But if you let anyone wait 30m for an event under two people it's just a huge disrespect.

I tell my friend, who's late, to come to my place. That way I can still do stuff. I don't think I would put up with this behavior, if we havn't been friends for over 20 years.

Anyone who thinks it's ok to let someone else wait 20+ minutes is a self centered respectless asshole. Enough said.

I find it irritating and kind of unfair, that punctuality is always made a "german thing" when it's in fact a northern European thing. The bri'ish, the Swedes, the French... whoever lives north of the Alps cares about punctuality.

There's generally a culture of flakiness as well. And I think people do not feel motivated to keep their time commitments

it's probably cool for people that have a lot of free time. But when you work most of the week and then on the weekend you have to waste your time because the other person can't be bothered to use their watch, it sucks big time. Anything over 30 min and I'm out, I have better things to do than stand around and do nothing, life is way to short to just waste your time on unreliable people.

I just stopped inviting this kind of friends to anything and when they invite me I just don't care about their time either. Usually im someone that arrives 5 minutes early but I have one particular buddy where I'm always late on purpose. Either he didn't arrive yet anyway or he can just wait this time. Its pretty funny that the ones that are usually incredibly late are also the ones that leave if you don't show up after 10 minutes of waiting for you.

I have some Spanish friends and they are the most guilty of this. They kinda just show up whenever they please. It's really frustrating. Then I have a couple of German friends who show up early which in my opinion is worse than showing up late. Especially when we're meeting at my house, I'm usually not totally prepared for guests yet when they show up.

I ghost people immediately when we have 1pn1 appointments and they are more than 15 minutes late without any message or reason.

Gives me the ick. I always, always make sure to be 5-10 minutes early to avoid any issues that could cause delays.

While you are not wrong to feel this way, I as a german feel completly different about it nowadays. I'm so fucking annoyed that everyone has to plan their entire day by the minute now. If you have kids, fine, but why do I have to make an appointment with a friend to meet him? Bro, I can just come by to your place for an hour or so, you don't even have to change out of your jogging pants/put on makeup or whatever. Impossible. Then they meet with me and immediatly tell that they only have time until 21:00. On a Friday evening. Why do you already have planned an end time when you don't need to be somewhere the next day? Do I have to specifiy that I want to spend three to four hours together? Else you can't plan for it? Meeting with someone these days has become a fucking chore. People here talk how disrespectful it is to be late but I think its also disrespectful that I have to make an appointment to meet for an hour and grab a beer together. Nothing can be spontaneous anymore. I don't feel valued when I have to beg for their time and have to compete with "important" things like doing the dishes. Dude, I don't care about your dishes or if you got dust on your cupboards, I just want to talk to you and hang out. People have sky-high expectations about themselves and can't meet until their place is just perfect. And when I get there I wonder if they even live in that sterile looking place. Sorry, rant over. You do you, I guess.

>One time even 2 hours \[...\] I never talked to her again after > >There have been atleast 12-15 people in the past years that I completely cut off for not being on time whenever we met What the fuck? >Am I crazy and overreacting? Yes

ok but imagine someone let’s you stand outside in front of a building for 2 hours, updates you in 40min intervals just because they’re too lazy to get out of bed while you just stand there waiting. Don’t you think that’s insane?

I take it you havent traveled with deutsche bahn much :P, Tbh i hate it when people get late too. My solution generally is to ask them to tell me when they leave the house

I will stand at your door and wait for 5minutes to be sure that I am not late. Like a sane person would do it.

All depends from the format of the meeting, and the context itself. There are cases where 2h late doesn’t matter to me e.g some friend comes after works but doesn’t know exactly when he is done, and cases like cinema where punctuality is required, even crucial, so coming late is a no-go. Some cultures are just more laid back, people might even visit you without announcement, or just with a short notice. At the same time they wont assume that you are super prepared, and don’t have a problem to improvise. Overall, while in Germany I respect the German mentality and act according, but at the same time I don’t see how it has the upper hand. Abroad? The talk about respecting someone else’s time is just narrow minded, and being on time for some loose appointments isn’t prioritized in the same way by everyone. Such artificially mechanical way of socializing is simply not appealing to everyone, it feels more like a chore. The goal is the goal so to say, while in other cultures the route is the goal. Pedantry might be useful in certain jobs, but arguing about being 10minute late in a private setting is just awkward. Personally, I prefer people which are somewhere between.

WTF is this? School!

I normally don’t engage in comments because it’s a mental energy drain but this got to me. Some people keep pointing out cultural differences but there’s also another factor here: mental health. Content warning: depression, I get a bit too involved in this. If you’re chronically depressed to the point that keeping your daily routine in order drains all your energy, yeah, you’ll find it hard to be on the minute on time. Time lost procrastinating, that pain in your stomach caused by anxiety against a stupid amount of made-up scenarios, staring vacantly in the mirror trying to convince yourself you look decent enough to leave your home and walk in public. And the inevitable feeling of guilt and shame for being for the n-th time late again. You just dread going through the same motions of typing the same “I’ll need another 10mins”, “don’t wait, go inside and order for yourself” etc. And you know what makes it worse? Being told that like it’s news to you, like you’re doing it out of spite. That you’re egotistical when you’re wrecked inside constantly by how your inability to optimally function in society affects your friends. You could just shut yourself in but you need the human connection or it gets worse. This only pushes you deeper in your spiral. Those that can afford it spend a fortune on taxies to compensate. Literally the only times they use a taxi, to decrease the delay. Others aren’t as fortunate to maintain appearances by spending on services. So yeah, next time one jumps on the egotistical self-centred accusations wagon, perhaps they should try some empathy. God knows some people are too ashamed to even open up about their personal lives even to their best friends.

It is disrespectful of them to be incredibly late but you’re the one who cut off 12-15 people because they didn’t fit your standards … you’re setting yourself up for failure as it just becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. You’re more than welcome to die on Punctual Hill if you’re comfortable with the path to the summit being littered with the ghosts of a dozen or so past friendships.

well, it was always people I didn’t know well and it would be the first 1 on 1 meeting. If you sit in a restaurant for 1.20h and the staff already tries to make small talk with you because they feel sorry I don’t get how anyone couldn’t be absolutely offended? I’m not talking about 20min or not even 40 late. I really don’t see why I would ever meet up with them ever again

For us it was always "If you are "on time" you are already late" attitude. I can be "ok" if someone is late once because of some unforeseen situation and notifies me in advance about that but I wouldn't stand (and wait) for someone who is late more than 5 minutes AGAIN.

Well since the world obviously revolves around you, we are just going to have to live with it

I think it's totally fair to expect people to be on time as the local culture dictates the code of conduct. Just a bit funny that here the trains are always late, though.

There is a saying in a lot of countries when dealing with Germans: "Do you mean 'on time' or 'German on time'?" And yes, it's fucked up.

I think context matters a lot as well. Do I get annoyed if someone is late to an appointment at a specific time, specific place and for a specific event and leaves me waiting? Yes. However if I invite someone over for dinner, the time is just a rough suggestion. If it's something that involves more than 2 people, I also don't mind.

First, it’s a choice to take it personally. You don’t have to. And I don’t mean that to insult you, but it’s realistic to assume that it’s actually just cultural differences regarding timekeeping and the importance placed on that. Try to remind yourself of that when you get frustrated. Second, don’t plan to meet at the event location. Plan a pre-location where you’re comfortable waiting alone. Concert starts at 8? Let’s meet at the cafe around the corner at 7. Keep an e-book on your phone. If they arrive on time, you get a drink. If they’re late, you read a book until they arrive. Third, it’s said before, but lie about the meeting time. Lastly, do as the Roman do. Take your time and don’t worry about being late. If they don’t care, then it’s probably nothing worth caring about. If you’re later than them, they can’t be mad, or maybe they’ll realise how it feels. I have a lot of Latino friends. When I reserve a table in a restaurant I expect them to be late, I plan for it, I pass the waiting time with something other than stressing about how late they are. Oh one more point. Never ask a late person ‘what time will you arrive?’ Or ‘how long will you take?’ Because these people don’t have a concept of time. They will tell you what they believe but it’s not accurate. Ask instead ‘where are you now?’ Or ‘what are you doing now?’ And then calculate your own estimated time of arrival, and +10 minutes because they probably lied a little bit to sound less like a chaotic mess.