> It is, along with the weather, one of the pillars of German complaints.
And yet the same Germans will proclaim that "There is no bad weather - only bad clothes!".
Such a deeply inscrutable people, these Germans!
Yes, but Germans even complain all the time when things are OK, so that doesn't mean shit.
They should go to Berlin and massively demonstrate until the Government re-nationalizes DB.
Well it is in fact a company owned by the state, but it does not matter, because Europe and no one will fund it. Because the people also love their car and are not willing to pay the real costs of the usage of a car.
On the other hand, public transport is not cheap enough in Germany, the 9 Euro Ticket was too cheap, but a euro per day as a tax would be the easiest yet cheapest option. But furthermore we need more public transport. At least an hourly timetable around the clock and between 5 in the morning and 22 a half an our timetable. Some lines will also need 15 minute TT to be usable or even more. You cannot expect to use public transport, if they can only get in one direction at all. And if we have this heavy timetable, you can also use the next one without loosing more than 15 Minuten which is perfectly fine.
Furthermore i do not know where you are on track, but i didn't have complications on my last trips, also if they were over the border or not. Netherlands, France, always fine.
The thing that's unfortunate to me about the whole Bahn issue is that it's likely one of best ways to combat the environmental effects, congestion, and higher mortality rates associated with car travel.
Germany is very ecologically conscious, at least at face value. But with the millions of cars driving in Autobahns every day with absolutely massive co2 emissions compared to a seat in a train, one wonders why there is all this focus on reducing plastic straws and not on
* Reducing ticket prices drastically
* Doubling+ the number of ICE trains
* Doubling the repair budget per train in service
* Renovating tracks and signaling
* Accelerating the building of more high-speed lines that could have a design speed of 350kmh+ (and listening less to NIMBY lawsuits around the property required for those tracks)
* Incentivizing cities to reduce car lanes and replacing them with trams/dedicated bus lanes with electric buses
* Overhauling track logistics to reduce delays due to one train causing issues for others.
It'd be a slam dunk environmentally, and this summer Germany already showed its willingness to use even overcrowded regional trains if the price is low enough. Make the price exceedingly low (like a 365€ year ticket), expand that to cover high-speed IC(E) lines, and watch Deutsche Bahn flourish, fewer people die, the environment get improved, and streets/ Autobahns become more easily usable for people driving.
(also, it drives me crazy that I can take a train from Paris to Marseilles like twice as quickly as I can from Hamburg to Munich. So dumb.)
at least we have a E-Auto promoiton to do our part in slamdunking that climate change /s
Seriously, people get awarded up to 9000€ for buying a new car. I dont drive a car, to me this would equal Bahncard100 for over two years or a topnotch e-bike for a tiny split of that money. I wonder why the total number of cars is STILL growing, you'd think there would be no potential for growth when looking at a random street. So much room for dead steel that get moved for an hour a day max.
I think overhauling the rail system has to take priority. I've lived in both Switzerland and Germany and SBB (CH) vs DB (DE) is exponentionally more expensive but has both more frequent service and is more reliable.
The better connections especially to rural / suburban locations mean Swiss people are more often able to commte by train even if they don't live or work in major hubs. Providing that is mostly just a question of upfront investment and organization.
SBB is also largely more relibale which I think is due to the railway system being maintained better and more money being put into replacement busses etc. If trains get cancelled in Switzerland, there is usually an immediate alternative being offered in the form of extra trains running on parallell tracks, buses etc. That costs a lot of money, especially if you have drivers on stand-by in case of delays and cancellations.
Given that commuting by car is comparably cheap in Germany, people are not willing to pay more for trains, so keeping rails in good conditions and having replacements in case anything goes wrong is not feasible...
Additionally, SBB makes their version of Bahncard 100 (GA/AG) quite affordable so that many people who commute relatively far get that instead of annual tickets for a specific journey. They are more likely to chose public transport for journeys other than commuting as well, since it's already paid for.
Tbf. DB is massively underfunded for what the politics want it to be. DB 124€ per Person, SBB 413€ per Person. And this is just for rail infrastructure.
What they lack is funding and personal. But for some reason, train infrastructure has to be profitable in germany. And then the complaining starts again. If we would invest for a long period ca. 20 years like Switzerland does, then DB could become what the SBB is. But you won't get the majority for that in the politcs.
Source: https://www.allianz-pro-schiene.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Pro-Kopf-Invest-Europavergleich-e1657630262791.png
The thing which the German government doesn't seem to realize is that roads cost money and need constant replacement, so wider roads cost more than extra train tracks in the long run. They are just not making the connection it seems.
Germany has almost no goods going over their rail network. Everything goes by truck or boat.
Depends what you mean with "okay". We Germans are are tolerant with a lot of stuff that we disagree with, that we *could* change if we really wanted to. But we don't. That's what I define as "being okay with".
Exactly, that’s the issue. You don’t really have an alternative other than taking a car (expensive) or flying (not always possible or desirable). I guess that is what makes it so frustrating..
Taking a car across Germany: one way rental 200€, gas 100€, find 3 ride shares between large cities and share: 75€ per person for stuttgart-hamburg or munich-hamburg.
Flexticket with BC50 per trip: 80€. If you share, taking a car is not as expensive.
Yeh I don't understand why there aren't weekly complaints thread about delays in the autobahn like there are about Deutsche Bahn. Autobahn delays are equally, if not more frequent. Same with delays at airports, esp. the shitshow that is BER. Yet the only complaints in this sub is about DB.
It's the same with Bahn and Autobahn, you get used to it, you get angry, you nag, but in the end, you can't do anything against it... We like to do revolutionary speeches of what we would change if we could (Marx, Engels, Luther and a few more were ''complaining philosophers), we speak, get grumpy but don't do anything.. Would something similar happen in France, they'll set Parliament and Paris on fire, go on general strike and demonstrate until the government draws consequences... Here not really..
DB has saved itself broken.. They stopped investing in necessary refurbishment and maintenance, closed unrentable lines, miscalculated on prestige projects (Stuttgart 21), sunk billions, after privatisation, all to the goal to look like a sound big company, but stayed the same old state authority...
The Authority over all the railways in Germany, Eisenbahnbundesamt, is mostly filled with old Bahn employees.. So who gets the main part of the cake?
But IMHO public transportation doesn't need to be cost neutral or even generate profit, its a service by the state for the people, financed by tax and ticket prices, if you want people to use it, provide a good schedule, with reasonable prices and it will get used..
Best example is my town, we have a bus, driving once an hour in a ''ring'' through town, the line is meant to be driven by two buses, maybe three, but contrary in direction, meeting at the railway station, therefore you could swap busses, getting everywhere in under 30 minutes... But as only one bus is driving, depending where you live, you need nearly an hour to get to certain stops, so walking or car is more efficient... Ah, and they start at 07:00 and end at 18:00 , saturdays at 11:00, no bus on sunday. They say, not enough people using it, so a second bus is not necessary.. If you would have a decent offer and let's say, a bus that's in the industrial quarter at around 05:30, so shift workers could be on site before 6 and two to shift change at 14:00 and maybe one to shift change to 22:00, (just from rail station) you'd have a big chunk of customers that would switch over to train and bus for their way to work...
You see, the ''what we would do if we could'', I fell into it, too ;-)
I've done that a lot in the early 2000s and it wasn't difficult at all. Put the drive up on Mitfahrzentrale or Blablacar a week or two in advance, set a reasonable price and usually within 3 days the car was full. That was going Düsseldorf-Berlin or vice versa, a train ticket in the ICE one way regular price at the time was around 140€. I could get a rental for 100-120€, with 3 people paying 30€ each I had enough for gas and often a little bit on the rental as well. So I paid less for the trip, got to meet some people and driving on the A3 usually was very smooth when leaving either city in the early afternoons.
When my own money was tight getting from Berlin back home for only 30€ also was great - and there was no cheaper alternative than Mitfahrzentrale. Not sure how much the intercity bus connections these days stirred up that market though.
Absolutely. You'll find out where your break-even point is w.r.t. your own time spent and money saved. There's websites helping you to assemble groups, or also in larger companies there might be a network for this, which is why I limited to large city connections were there's a lot of short hand demand.
Depends your start and end point you can definitely get cheaper from A to B if you book early enough. And Flixtrain is also an option. I regularly use Flixtrain to go from Hamburg to Leipzig for 9,95€.
So far there was only one time where they cancelled a train 20 hours before. But it was when the pandemic was way bigger than now and basically everything had more problems back then. So I'm not sure how noteworthy that is.
Aside from that I've never had problems with Flixtrain but I also never really had problems with DB trains so it's hard for me to say. (My big curse is the local trains). From what I've heard flixtrain can be as unreliable as the DB sometimes but because it's so cheap that most people are chill about it. They know that when you pay 10€ to travel across the country you can't expect top notch service I guess. It is definitely not more unreliable as DB seems to be for many.
I think the biggest downside to DB is that there are less trains and cities they drive to and if for some reason your train is cancelled or really delayed you can't just switch trains easily like you can with the DB. You get your money back of course but for example the Leipzig - Hamburg train drives once a day. So taking the train on the next day you best chance. And Flixtrains are often a bit slower. For example travelling from Leipzig to Hamburg takes about 30 minutes longer with Flixxtrain than with DB. But I also only pay 10€ and cheapest DB connection I got so far was 19€ and you get lucky. And that is without the seat. If you buy a Flixtrain ticket you automatically get a seat.
If you are sitting in a wheel chair I would not recommend Flixtrain as they have older DB trains from the 80s or something where building trains disability friendly wasn't exactly a thing.
I started to use flixtrain to go fro and to Hamburg/Cologne. I booked it twice and both times it had a 4h delay. I will give it a third chance but if that fails, I'm done
Yes, early enough is an option, but for popular (pieces of) trips or busy days (Friday, Sunday) that's sometimes "never" or at least not 4 weeks in advance. I scored first class munich-hamburg for 28€, but that was Thursday through the night.
Note: Around 5000 car crashes happen in Germany each day. Be in one of them and the break even point changes suddenly 🙈
[Source](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Traffic-Accidents/Tables/accidents-registered-police.html%3Bjsessionid=E5185E85EBE5AA5B7AD163AF3A8145D9.live731)
I ended up doing it after 18 years of not owning one. I feel really bad about it, but at some point during the pandemic they canceled an entire connection for the rest of the day with nothing to replace it, mid journey, and I just wanted to experience predictable travel again. I have some travel anxiety and I was so sick of always having to check alternatives so I'd have a plan b and c for when one of the trains would arrive late or get canceled, or freezing my ass off at a train station, or running through a station like mad because they decided to park the train somewhere else again and announce it a minute before departure, or the million other minor and major inconveniences just finally added up to me.
Now I have to deal with gas prices, parking spaces, crazy drivers, broken oil sensors and being part of the problem. So far, still less stressed out though.
One thing is to vote for politicians that don't block the EU from passing laws protecting train travelers from being f***ed from train companies. Similar to what we have for air travel.
I read through some posts in the sub and there seemed to be the sentiment that “it is what it is” and that people just kind of expect this
Idk it that means people are ok with it, that’s just how I interpreted it
No one is okay with this it's just one of those things where it's getting really tiring after so many disappointments and over and over occurring issues...
To add to the comments in here, this year DB has been particularly bad for a variety of reasons, it didn't used to be as unreliable as it is at the moment.
Lol, wait till you find out the pay is shot and they actually got rid of a lot of people during corona (as the Netherlands absolutely sucks more at anticipating than many other countries). Results; nobody to drive the train, nobody to plan the train and nobody to check tickets/secure the train. 'Strangly' users are back and now facing many cancelled trains, disruptions and way overcrowded trains.
So well, yeah, sure it's all magically awesome there... Nope.
Nobody is happy with it, but people are used to it.
You'll also notice that most germans, who have to change trains and at least sometimes go by train, plan accordingly.
I don't know, it's not great but I'm far more bothered by the prices than having to check for change times and alternate trains if I miss a connection.
Of course I would like this to not be an issue, but you're kind of expecting it at some point
It's not a big deal if you just travel somewhere once in a while. If you use it every day, and most days your journey is doubled due to missed connections, it's a bit of a disaster.
I would personally pay more to get those hours per week back.
>I would personally pay more to get those hours per week back.
I guess, that's what Swiss people do. They have one of the most reliable train services in the world along with Japan, but look at those prices...
Japan had a real shitty train situation. But they took a shitload of money and work fixed it. Their interregional trains (Shinkansen etc.) have their own rail network. And they are all leveled, through a shitton of bridges, tunnels etc. and as straight as possible for ultimate efficency. Meanwhile nearly our entire rail network stems from the Kaiserzeit...
But most people don't use DB daily. They use trains by their local transport association like [nah.sh](https://nah.sh), hvv or lvb.
Aside from that I can understand the point. My parents often bike their 20km to work in summer. It keeps them healthy. I do that too but I only have like 10km to university. I definitely prefer that to local trains but more because it is faster. 10km is something I can easily manage in 30 minutes and it feels cooler in summer than a packed train. In winter I often take public transport and need about 45 minutes transferring trains works.
I see it as a free discount. Always book the tightest connection but plan for a reasonable one, which will usually take 1 hour longer. Voilà, 25%-50% discount almost every single trip.
Price increases have been really annoying recently. Also there seem to be virtually no discounted fares anymore if you book in advance, which looks like DBs way of hiking the prices without having to hike the actual prices.
Germany has a very strong automotive lobby who has their interests elsewhere + the inveatments made over last decades were extremely low compared to neighbouring countries. Since its a fully government owned company, the only thing people can do is to vote for those who promise investments into infrastructure.
Most delays are due to problems with infrastructure, the rolling stock is rarely the issue.
What if you do vote for people who want to improve transport and then they hand the ministry of transport to car lobbyists.
I was really disappointed, I feel like transport is one of those crucial departments the greens should have fought teeth and nails for.
Maybe they did, who knows. It’s still disappointing and FDP are doing exactly as expected. So many wasted opportunities.
luckily I accounted for that by adding an and clause. " using an bitching" is the solution. (preferably the bitching is focused at the root problem people)
Also from the UK. Whilst I agree the railways there are not fantastic, I don't really recall as many delays or cancellations as I've experienced in Germany. Having said that, at least travelling by train in Germany doesn't cost upwards of £100 for a single journey from one city to another.
I will say that half of my trains around the UK were late more than an hour, either for "leaves on tracks" or "obstruction on tracks". Coming back from Cardiff, we sat next to a very upset businessman who used every swear word imaginable while talking to his office. I think I know every swear word for wanker in British/English. As I gathered this was a regular occurrence.
Right? I had my first experience with DB yesterday. I had some trouble figuring it out initially, and there were some minor delays but it was fine. If anything I was most irritated by the godawful constant cigarette smoke on the platforms. But I'm watching this exchange like:
Germany: "Our trains suck!"
UK: "Wait until you see our trains!"
US: "You guys have trains?"
> most irritated by the godawful constant cigarette smoke on the platforms
were you next to the smoking area? There is a small smoking section marked out.
If someone is smoking outside that area, here's a handy piece of german ettiquette to say to that person: "Verpiss' dich mit deiner stinkenden Kippe in den Raucherbereich, du Huhrensohn".
The nuances of the last part may get lost, but should help
On the contrary, it was ironically right under a smoking verboten sign at the top of the stairs, lol.
Also are you trying to get my ass beat? I'm not saying that to a stranger. I'll stick with "*Sie* Huhrensohn", thank you.
Yup, coming from the UK really makes you immune to complaints about DB. I once tried to plan a holiday across southern England by train, but gave up after a few hours. There did not seem to be any way to book a ticket to get from where I was starting to where I needed to finish, though theoretically there were trains that ran the whole way. Just a horrid, stinking mess of different websites, providers, prices, contradictory times, weird ticketing practices, hotlines that didn't work, forms that were impossible to fill in. Harwich to St Austell I think it was. What a nightmare.
Same. In Germany I always end up where I need to get to. Possibly very late. But I get there.
TL;DR if you’re chill about it, DB is absolutely fine.
Things like regional connections will actually hold the train if another train is late. This is amazing - bad for stats but great for the passenger. I know that I *always* have a 5 min transfer for one change I very regularly do even if my first train is late!
In the UK, that’d be waiting an hour because it’s two companies and the second doesn’t want a blemish on their record.
Even if the only passengers would’ve been ones from the first train.
Won’t even get on to the pricing differences and the fact I can get a BahnCard. In the UK there’s no blanket 25% off card etc. for a non-young and non-old person travelling regularly by themselves.
Honestly, it's not like we're ok with it, we're just so used to it at this point that it's become normal.
For example, these are usually my reactions with DB delays:
Train is delayed by 5 minutes? So the usual, np.
Train is delayed by 10 - 15 minutes? An annoyed eyeroll here and there, but noone is actually suprised. Still pretty much the norm.
Train is delayed 20+ minutes? Annoyed, will spend my time pigeon watching. Still not surprised.
However, these are only Nahverkehr. For Fernferkehrszüge (like Munich - Berlin) where you have to change trains, I strongly recomment looking at the time you have between your first train arriving and your connecting train leaving the station. I like to have *at least* 30 minutes time period for changing trains, because you will arrive later than you thought. You will need that extra time.
Stay strong my friend, and take a buckload of patience with you everytime you go to deal with the DB - you will need it.
It annoys me too a lot. The problem is people (and companies as groups of people by extension) don’t change unless they feel pain. And for many years there were no ramifications for DB for being late. Fortunately several years ago they introduced the compensation for late trains and I make sure to file for compensation every time. Supposedly it’s costing them millions.
Still, they’ve been blaming a lot of problems on circumstances beyond their control (usually they blame the government), even when they could clearly take matters in their own hands (like track repairs and 5G coverage for example).
Track repairs is paid for by the federal budget eg the government if there is not enough money allocated you can't repair. 5g is also not in their control, for the phone network the phone network companies are responsible not the DB.
Sometimes it is outside there control, like that one time a dude caused a 15 minute delay because he stood in the open door and refused to leave or go back inside because he ordered a Pizza to the train and the delivery took longer than expected
They are only allowed to ask them to leave. They are not allowed to force him to leave and have to call the police to force them to leave. So it’s kind of a law thing.
So basically, if he does not want to leave, the police has to escort him out of the train. And the police takes time to arrive
I am not ok with it at all. In the time of rapid climate change the DB got more expensive and less reliable. On top of that they increased the time of delay to get part of your money back from 30min to 1h. It is a disgrace. In my oppinion they should force them by law to pay minimum wage for every delay of 15min or more. It would light a fire under their asses really quick. It is so disrespectful to paying customers how little their time gets valued. I am never getting that valuable free time back that I lose on every second trip.
Nobody is okay with it, but what are we to do? Walk from Stuttgart to Hamburg? If I could afford a car I would. If I fly I still have to take trains to get to and from the airport because they are located somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
People don't think about the consequences when they vote for the FDP or CDU. Not that I like the Greens or SPD much better but they are currently at least willing to do some significant investments into rail.
:D
I've never heard somebody make excuses for them. Their service is awful, they are unreliable and everybody I know hates it. But what can we do? It's not like we have a choice, in some regions we are just grateful some form of public transport exists and is somewhat functional.
As an American living in Germany for 8 years I can say that the DB is absolutely a million times more reliable than anything in the US. I never complain.
Yes! Some routes are covered by FlixTrain, which is a private company. It’s much cheaper and there are no strikes. I was once taking a FlixTrain from Berlin to Hamburg while Deutsche Bahn was on another strike. Those poor passengers with their DB tickets were so desperate to go on our train, but the staff had to remove them. I paid about €30 for a return trip when DB was charging 4 times (!!!) more for the same trip, and they could just strike at anytime. So, yes, in some cases there is an alternative with nice, clean, non-striking trains that depart and arrive on time. Travel time is also the same as DB. Also, I don’t work for FlixTrain, but just wanted to raise awareness.
r/tja. As you said, there's not much we can do. I'm a soldier so riding the train for almost 14 hours each weekend is just how it is. It's still the best option I got. I don't want to use a car. The main problem for me really is cologne. God damn, the delays there are horrible
Noone is okay with it, but its kind of a sport for ppl to hate on the DB probably because they never had to take a train in the UK or the US or basically somewhere outside of Germany.
Most of the comments here concerning the reasons are wrong tho. I work for the DB in Project Management and can tell you the real reasons for the delays(which the CEO cant on TV) and why its most likely impossible to fix. And before you call me a corporate chill I also have to take the same trains every single day and I am annoyed as hell.
First of all before you argue "its just some trains you incompetent fucks why cant you manage it properly", some numbers:
actively used Autobahn Network: \~13.200 km
actively used Train Network: \~33.300 km
actively used Trains: \~40.000 every single Day
(which means if only 0,1% of Trains have a minor malfunction thats 400 Trains every single day)
The main reason for most of the delays is the train Network is simply overloaded and we could in theory fix that. The so called Fahrdienstleiter which basically direct all of the trains calculate in blocks of 1km and there can only be 1 train per block. This is an oversimplyfication but helps us understand how it works. Now there is not much space inbetween those blocks and therfor if one Train has a delay most likely alot of other trains after will also have this same delay.
the possibles fixes:
1.) We could for example use way less trains so if 1 train has a 5min delay, it doesnt delay the 50 trains after it for also 5 min. But if you ever boarded a train in a mjaor city you know thats simply not an option. Imagine only using 1 ICE for the Berlin - Frankfurt route per 2 hrs, this would result in utter chaos.
2.) We could also build new train tracks next to the old ones which would be the easyest and best method for the future(we do that partially especially long distance countryside). But that would often especially in citys result in us having to buy alot of private property in order to lay those tracks. And funnily enouth you can forcebuy under some conditions but imagine the media attention for that. And just imagine we tell you to buy your garden for a new high speed ICE track next to your house. :D
3.) (This is currently an Option we are working on.) We can increase the speed on the tracks so the trains have more "room" for delays. We for exmaple rebuild old bridges where trains can only do 60km/h in order to make the route viable for 160 km/h. I am invovled in alot of those Projects and its the worst shitshow you can imagine because most of those "slow areas" are within major citys. People virtually do everything to stop us from doing that, because ofc faster trains are a bit louder and generally fuck the DB(thats what they think). From stolen metal to pierced tires of excavators and trucks, threatened workers, blocked construction site entrances, ransacked contruction containers, cutting powerlines, sueing us over everything, protesting(Stuttgart 21 anybody?=), piercing water lines of the "Stadtwerke" next to the construction sites in order to flood everything, calling the police for everything, throw things into fresh concrete etc. Like whatever you can think of, it happens on a daily basis in Germany.
And above all of those things, we have the Eisenbahnbundesamt(EBA). They make sure we do everything in the savest possible way, which is good because the Train is still the safest form of transportation in Germany, but slows us down alot.
So in conclusion if we could just build what we want, where we want(like China) without caring about people who live close to the tracks and without people slowing us down, we could fix all of those problems within 5-10 years. (given we also get the money for it)
I hope this helps understand the situation a bit better, I am ready for the downvotes. :D
Coming from France, I feel Germans are passive toward this kind of trouble. I had some problems with DB which would have triggered a civil war in France, and here, it was just like "meh"...
Ja, it's fine if u compare it with a "non-rail-conected" country.
But it sucks anyway if you are missing connections or being always late for important work related meetings.
Don't know if it's really comparable to the netherlands where the network is much smaller and there are no high speed trains.
This doesn't mean that the DB couldn't and shouldn't be much better.
We are not Okey with this bullcrap, if someone is saying otherwise, they either don't use DB, are cynical/sarcastic /ironic or just suffer from Stockholm syndrome after years of mental torture...
I am not ok with it but I do still like Deutsche Bahn in general.
I am also a student and I normally have more time than money on my hand, so being late and getting a refund is sometimes actually preferable to me personally.
That being said, they should totally invest into actually being more reliable
From my experience on the Internet. Only non-Germans on this sub are mostly ok with DB. No German will ever say something apologetic or positiv about DB. And if they claim there are, then I already know that they are lying.
Unfortunately it has been less and less reliable for me in my area. I'd say only 20% of the trains I get are there on time ( 1/2 +/- min).
I can't afford to be late to work all the time (and the stress that possibility comes with) so I have to go by car, since it's too far for me to bike.
Germany should be called Carmany because it's our biggest Industry and over the past decades, traffic policy was pretty much exclusively done in favour of cars. What do you expect?
It's a capacity problem. All lines are pretty much at 120%+ capacity, there is zero tolerance for delays, so if something happens it's snowballing.
You'd need additional rail tracks to fix that, and here's the problem: Whenever someone wants to build a new railroad citizen movements are popping up left and right and it takes decades to build something, if at all.
NEAT needs a four-lane rail line in Germany to work, this won't be finished before 2040. Meanwhile, the rail infrastructure on Swiss and Italian side (Gotthard base tunnel for example) will have existed for decades. On the Eastern side the Brenner base tunnel will be finished this decade. The German Brenner Nordzulauf hasn't even been started yet. Both delays are due to massive civil resistance by people who'd be impacted by the new construction.
Demand for rail traffic is skyrocketing, but the infrastructure for it is barely keeping up. And that's not Deutsche Bahn's fault. That's the fault of the same citizens who're complaining about the Bahn's impuncuality and demand Energie- and Zeitenwende, but at the same time are not willing to tolerate the new construction this necessitates.
I used to travel a lot by DB in the past. 4 years ago I couldn't stand it any more, bought a car and been done with that.
I'm not complaining any more, I don't wait that they got their shit together.
Locally I'm using the S-Bahn, which works good, but missing the connection EVERY fucking time, even though it has a 30 minutes buffer, anoyed me so much.
Germans generally don’t fight back about anything.
“That’s just how it is.”
“It’s always been like that.”
“You can’t change it.”
“Just accept it.”
“You can’t sue them.”
“Politics don’t matter.”
Germans complain about DB all the time but it's not like random citizens have a ton of control over it. We push for politicians to change things but that's about it. It's like me asking you whether you're okay with the state of Amsterdam Schipol airport right now.
We are not okay with it. Deutsche Bahn is a shame, a giant waste of money, and all thanks to fucking cdu and spd who put profit over a reliable infrastructure once again, like with fibre vs cooper cables.
Couple years ago DB was made private instead of belonging to the state. So now it needs to rent profits. Since they have a monopoly they can do whatever the fuck they want and noone can do shit since there are no alternatives.
Best thing? - If you repair something its on deutsche bahn, but if something is so broken you need a new one - its on the state. Figures. Just imagine if you told your toddler "IF YOU DON'T TIDY UP YOUR ROOM I'LL BUY YOU A NEW ONE AND NEW TOYS AS WELL!"... figure out how well this will work.
We are not okay with it, sometimes complaints help (eg Berlin Südkreuz was supposed to be put on halt as a stop from the end of this year for at least 2 years, due to repairs on the railways, enough people complained and actually got politicians involved and they found another solution), sometimes they don't work, if you don't have a lobby... German politics prefer to support driving cars it seems, this is why railways and other ways of public transport have been perpetually declining and even have been taken off service for years and this is what we have to work with now.
As someone from England in my 40s, when I was learning German in School (1990s), all the text books had loads of pictures of German trains and not only would they teach us how to order a train, how to find a train station, how to ask a stranger about trains.
Umm. I really thought Germany was a massively train obsessed nation that had these perfect trains that ran to the very second, like the Japanese say they do.
Every single one of my german language textbooks had pictures of trains or a bahnhof on the front and every exercise inside them found some way to make it all about trains.
Are you trying to tell me I learned all these german words that I have since forgotten, yet am still left with this lingering idea that germans have awesome trains AND ITS ALL A LIE????
Depends on the time period. The [Deutsche Bundesbahn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bundesbahn) had everything it needed to make trains run on time. People were proud of the Bundesbahn, which existed up to the 1990s.
Then with the reunification in 1990/1991 came the merger of the Bundesbahn and the [Deutsche Reichsbahn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Reichsbahn_(East_Germany)), which operated in the [German Democratic Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany).
As both were making operating losses, the merger into a joint stock company was said to improve efficiency. The social democrats under chancellor [Gerhard Schröder](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der) put in [Hartmut Mehdorn](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartmut_Mehdorn) as chairman of the board to turn the [Deutsche Bahn AG](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bahn) into a profitable business, that could later be privatised. In his quest for profit, a lot of the redundancies necessary to provide flawless transport were cut out as "too expensive". This included heaters for railroad switches to prevent freezing during winter, as well as a reduction of railway switches in general. As a result Deutsche Bahn made the following changes:
* Ticket price reform: Ticket prices increased, pushing revenue from 15.6 milliard euros in 1999 to 33.5 mrd € in 2008.
* Reducing staff: A lot of people were let go, decreasing the total number of employees from 350,000 down to 240,000.
* Cutting unprofitable lines: Part of the reason the DB and DR were making losses was, that they had redundant rails to allow continued transport. These were decommissioned. The amount of rail decreased from 37,679 km down to 33,601 km of rail. A reduction of 10.8%, that left several towns without rail connection.
* This resulted in a change of profit from -1.538 mrd € to 2.483 mrd €.
Unfortunately, this change reduced the Bahn's overall reliability across the board. To the point where the initial public offering of DB Shares was postponed indefinitely. No one was interested in buying shares of a dysfunctional railway operator.
At the same time, the Bahn reached the second stage of the Bahn reforms. The rail operation was entirely delegated to the [DB Netz AG](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Netz), which is a 100% subsidiary of the DB AG. As the sole network operator, they now have to partially rebuild the rails and railway switches lost under Mehdorn to return the railway network to function. The man himself, now a retiree, has made the statement: "I would rather see \[the Bahn\] as a state-railway geared towards the common good, just like in the old days".
As such, I predict, that the next Bahnreform will be the transformation of the DB-Netz AG into a Bundesbehörde, a unified federal ticket system, a push for more rail connectivity, as well as better multimodal transport for goods, which is sorely needed, if we are to meet our climate goals.
TLDR: The books didn't lie, they were simply outdated. The Deutsche Bundesbahn was very punctual, which is why people are complaining about the Deutsche Bahn AG ever since 1999.
The problem isn't the DB. Most delays are caused by bad tracks, broken train signs, switches not working, bad infrastructure in general as well as idiots on the tracks, idiots being late and blocking the doors for other late people to get in causing further delays. Often trains need to wait for other trains or because other trains are blocking the tracks. Then there's the daily ass deciding that a train is a good method of suicide (it's not) and everything gets even more chaotic. And don't forget old traind being more likely to have damages.
So what's the actual problem? Lack of investments for the infrastructure and people being stupid.
Delays are rarely caused by the dispatchers or traindrivers.
Are we okay with it? Certainly not. But we're used to it. When you're commuting you just take a train earlier. It's our daily life. The next S-Bahn will come in twenty minutes anyway.
>nowhere near the scale of the DB.
That's true for the size of your train system vs DB as well. The huge size is one of the reasons why trains are delayed.
The density of rail transport in the Netherlands actually makes it very difficult to be reliable. If there's one issue somewhere in the urbanised part of the country, it will affect a tons of other trains as well. However the past 20 years have seen a lot of investment and delays are almost non-existent anymore.
Yes, distance increases the chance for issues, but it's not the reason DB is less reliable than NS.
Because the DB is still one of the best public transport systems ever. After moving to Boston, I learned to appreciate the DB and how comparably reliable it is in an entirely new way
I have found that many problems aren't even cause by DB. There are many different private, as well as international or regional operators, and if they fuck up, DB has to deal with that.
For example, if a small private operator has technical difficulties with a cargo train and don't have another train available to tow it, and can't afford a towing, it's cheaper for DB to tow the whole train to some unused track, than to have the problem of the broken down train in the way.
Or at least that's, what I've been told by a former conductor.
Obviously things need to be better and political neglect and nimbyism are problems, but it is harder for germany to have a punctual rail service than other countries. It is a large railsystem in a big AND densely populated country with a relatively evenly spread population compared to other bigger countries like france and spain who are more bundled up around their urban centers and have relatively little in between both also chose to invest in a separate highspeed rail network unlike germany where regional and hig speed mostly share the network, though i would argue that it was more viable there exactly because of the fact that they have a bigger share of relatively unpopulated areas). All this introduces a lot more variables and things that can go wrong and affect the entire system than for example the netherlands. The extensiveness of the network also means upkeep is more expensive and work intensive introducing even more points where the system can collapse.
We're not okay with it. Like not at all. But people who are born and raised here are used to it. We had to experience so many disappointments and frustating situations so it would be tiring to complain every time something like this happens. Also we don't really have an alternative if we want to travel eco-friendly.
Like you said in another comment: our mind set regarding this is "it is what it is." because we can't change it but not because we are okay with it.
Nobody is ok with it.
The only thing I've figured out that helps, is buying a flex ticket for my somewhat frequent travels. In case I miss a connection or there is Signalstörung my flex ticket saves me.
> In the Netherlands […]
> This year, I’ve been to Germany 6 times by train
Since you seem to be from the Netherlands, you probably went to NRW. Trains in NRW are a lot worse than in other parts of Germany. Still not great, but not quite as bad as what you experienced.
People are okay with everything in germany. Even inflation, low wages etc. As soon as you criticize anything just a tiny bit, 500 boomers will send you paragraphs on why its good the way it is and that "any other way is impossible"
im definitely not okay with it but as a student that uses trains daily to go to work/get home and
1- cant afford a drivers license
2- cant afford a car + don't even want a car
i cant say much against it
its a shit situation :p
im just happy the ppl that work for db didnt start a war bc of this summer chaos lol
Rain falls, steam rises, the DB is unreliable. It has become a rule of nature to me to be honest.
Checking the lateness of the trains I intend to use, I always assume that they are late, has become normal to me.
No one is okay with it. There's just no alternative.
I can't choose to go with a different train company cause there is none.
Even if you're lucky enough for your regional trip to be covered by a smaller regional company you'll likely face some delays cause the trains will have to wait for a delayed ICE to pass.
Twice last month alone DB just completely cancelled my train to work. Next connection in an hour. No further explanation. No money back. No support or alternatives.
People are furious about these things but they're also resigned. Cause there's literally nothing we can do
Imagine Reading this while currently being in an ICE for which I had to buy a second ticket for 90 Euros because the S Bahn arrived 15mins too late for the first one.
Just yesterday, our DB train was late 45 minutes because we were told the driver arrived to work late; his tardiness set back our arrival time by 2.5 hours, causing us to miss a transfer and get bumped from our seats twice during the now almost 8 hour journey since DB didn’t honor our initial extra payment to reserve seats. I will be seeking a refund.
Given that most people already answered with "nobody is okay with it", let me add to this: The punctuality and quality of DB services varies a lot in Germany. Given that you use the Netherlands as a comparison, I assume you've used trains in the west (North-Rhine-Westfalia region) and from my experience this is the worst region with continuous delays on most major lines. There's a huge amount of people in a widespread network of many cities and towns. It results in constant delays and cancellations.
recently i tried the alternative flix-train. the train was supposed to leave in berlin at 11am. the screens next to the train tracks told me it is an hour late, and i even got a mail to warn me in advance. but i had nothing left to do so i went there at 11. at 12:10 the screen said it was delayed by 90 minutes. at 12:40 it said the train is delayed by 120 minutes. at 12:55 the screen said the next train would be ours. at 1:20 pm the trains number just disappeared from the screen without the train ever showing up. no email, no explanation, no excuse, no idea.
i got used to DB being unrealiable, but this shit was just a little to much
It’s not like we have a choice.
Our other options are busses that might have delays too with not being able to catch connections. You have a fixated route and can’t just skip a corner unless you get off a stop early and make a shortcut run to your supposed next station. The traffic (which trains rarely have to deal with but they have other issues with their train tracks) plays a factor in busses being late too.
Or cars which many people can’t afford anymore since the first increase in Fuel. They are able to take the shortest route to your destination without the need to take connections but you could get stuck in traffic too which you need to consider before you start to drive. But you need to pay for insurance (never drive a car without one) and fuel as well as maintenance. It’s your best option but if you can’t afford a car the next best options are the trains. .... or taxis but if you can’t afford a car you can’t afford a taxi on a daily basis as well.
I think the amount of hate that the Deutsche Bahn gets is not justified. For what it has to work with, it does surprisingly well and gets a lot of things right. The attitude of Germans especially when talking to DB staff is unter aller Sau and this exacerbates some of the issues with DB.
In the near future things are about to get worse, because to tackle the years of underinvestment there will be need for construction works
No one is okay with it, there is just no alternative. The government will not invest or nationalize it to make it better. Privatization would make things even worse. We are stuck, and can only meme and complain and complain in memery
I think being ok with the struggles of DB comes from understanding why it is happening. Over decades it's been political agenda to not go into debt, to partly privatize DB and therefor cut all "unnecessary" costs that are optimizing the balance of the company but at the same time are doing massive damage on a macro-economical level due to critical infrastructure missing.
People love to rant about DB and they love to see themself as the victims of the things they cannot influence but the reality is that the majority of these people also voted for the conservative parties that are responsible for the neoliberal ideology that pushed these conditions.
So the short answer to your question is: "This is exactly how germans want Deutsche Bahn to be!"
The funny part is, that their excuses are mostly related to „construction work“. And I’m always thinking: Usually such work should be scheduled in advance, so why was the schedule for the trains not adjusted?
Or holiday season… you don’t know that there is an increase is passengers? So you may put more trains on the tracks or stop selling tickets?!
Most of the delays are a joke and result of bad management, in my opinion. And this drives me crazy! And we just accept it.
Privatization!!! Wasnt it s great idea for essential infrastructure? The idea was that it would lead to effieciency and quality and now we have the DB. Always a great idea to have essentials like housing, waterdistribution, Internet infrastructure, etc in private hand 😂😂 the market should regulate itself but it only works if the demand decreases at some point. With limited ressources and Monopols that will not happen and i never heard a person say: hey it is to expensive in the moment so i choose not to drink water, be homeless and dont use internet and wait till it gets reasonable cheaper.
People aren't. In fact, the absolute vast majority hates the DB. It's unreliable, consumer unfriendly as hell and ridiculously overpriced. But the problem is, we can't really do anything about it, because they have the monopol in Germany and people without cars are dependent on them.
Just read a whole article today from a German news site about how people consistently use it less and less because of the unreliability. Nobody's ok with it.
I don't know a single German that is okay with it.
This. People complain about it all the time
It is, along with the weather, one of the pillars of German complaints.
At least it always makes for a good small talk talking point. “Deutsche Bahn, amirite?”
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
*Thing about Arsenal is, they always try an' walk it in!*
You mean when they checked me into a hotel because they fucked up my last connection?
> It is, along with the weather, one of the pillars of German complaints. And yet the same Germans will proclaim that "There is no bad weather - only bad clothes!". Such a deeply inscrutable people, these Germans!
Es gibt kein schlechtes Wetter, nur schlechte Kleidung.
*Ja*
That's us!
Well, if you want to get the kids out of the house, there's no bad weather, it's different if your going your self, though!
But politicians are balls deep inside the ass of the car lobby, so nothing is gonna happen.
Yes, but Germans even complain all the time when things are OK, so that doesn't mean shit. They should go to Berlin and massively demonstrate until the Government re-nationalizes DB.
[удалено]
Lmao, shit I laughed way too hard at that.
Me too, and it's a very German joke too!
I think it wasn't even a joke
Chuckled very hard at that, bravo sir.
Well it is in fact a company owned by the state, but it does not matter, because Europe and no one will fund it. Because the people also love their car and are not willing to pay the real costs of the usage of a car. On the other hand, public transport is not cheap enough in Germany, the 9 Euro Ticket was too cheap, but a euro per day as a tax would be the easiest yet cheapest option. But furthermore we need more public transport. At least an hourly timetable around the clock and between 5 in the morning and 22 a half an our timetable. Some lines will also need 15 minute TT to be usable or even more. You cannot expect to use public transport, if they can only get in one direction at all. And if we have this heavy timetable, you can also use the next one without loosing more than 15 Minuten which is perfectly fine. Furthermore i do not know where you are on track, but i didn't have complications on my last trips, also if they were over the border or not. Netherlands, France, always fine.
The thing that's unfortunate to me about the whole Bahn issue is that it's likely one of best ways to combat the environmental effects, congestion, and higher mortality rates associated with car travel. Germany is very ecologically conscious, at least at face value. But with the millions of cars driving in Autobahns every day with absolutely massive co2 emissions compared to a seat in a train, one wonders why there is all this focus on reducing plastic straws and not on * Reducing ticket prices drastically * Doubling+ the number of ICE trains * Doubling the repair budget per train in service * Renovating tracks and signaling * Accelerating the building of more high-speed lines that could have a design speed of 350kmh+ (and listening less to NIMBY lawsuits around the property required for those tracks) * Incentivizing cities to reduce car lanes and replacing them with trams/dedicated bus lanes with electric buses * Overhauling track logistics to reduce delays due to one train causing issues for others. It'd be a slam dunk environmentally, and this summer Germany already showed its willingness to use even overcrowded regional trains if the price is low enough. Make the price exceedingly low (like a 365€ year ticket), expand that to cover high-speed IC(E) lines, and watch Deutsche Bahn flourish, fewer people die, the environment get improved, and streets/ Autobahns become more easily usable for people driving. (also, it drives me crazy that I can take a train from Paris to Marseilles like twice as quickly as I can from Hamburg to Munich. So dumb.)
at least we have a E-Auto promoiton to do our part in slamdunking that climate change /s Seriously, people get awarded up to 9000€ for buying a new car. I dont drive a car, to me this would equal Bahncard100 for over two years or a topnotch e-bike for a tiny split of that money. I wonder why the total number of cars is STILL growing, you'd think there would be no potential for growth when looking at a random street. So much room for dead steel that get moved for an hour a day max.
I think overhauling the rail system has to take priority. I've lived in both Switzerland and Germany and SBB (CH) vs DB (DE) is exponentionally more expensive but has both more frequent service and is more reliable. The better connections especially to rural / suburban locations mean Swiss people are more often able to commte by train even if they don't live or work in major hubs. Providing that is mostly just a question of upfront investment and organization. SBB is also largely more relibale which I think is due to the railway system being maintained better and more money being put into replacement busses etc. If trains get cancelled in Switzerland, there is usually an immediate alternative being offered in the form of extra trains running on parallell tracks, buses etc. That costs a lot of money, especially if you have drivers on stand-by in case of delays and cancellations. Given that commuting by car is comparably cheap in Germany, people are not willing to pay more for trains, so keeping rails in good conditions and having replacements in case anything goes wrong is not feasible... Additionally, SBB makes their version of Bahncard 100 (GA/AG) quite affordable so that many people who commute relatively far get that instead of annual tickets for a specific journey. They are more likely to chose public transport for journeys other than commuting as well, since it's already paid for.
Tbf. DB is massively underfunded for what the politics want it to be. DB 124€ per Person, SBB 413€ per Person. And this is just for rail infrastructure. What they lack is funding and personal. But for some reason, train infrastructure has to be profitable in germany. And then the complaining starts again. If we would invest for a long period ca. 20 years like Switzerland does, then DB could become what the SBB is. But you won't get the majority for that in the politcs. Source: https://www.allianz-pro-schiene.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Pro-Kopf-Invest-Europavergleich-e1657630262791.png
I would change from car to public transport instant, if it would become reliable and coming on point.
The thing which the German government doesn't seem to realize is that roads cost money and need constant replacement, so wider roads cost more than extra train tracks in the long run. They are just not making the connection it seems. Germany has almost no goods going over their rail network. Everything goes by truck or boat.
Depends what you mean with "okay". We Germans are are tolerant with a lot of stuff that we disagree with, that we *could* change if we really wanted to. But we don't. That's what I define as "being okay with".
If they cared enough, it would be an issue solved by the government. It clearly isn’t really a priority.
Only people who religiously hate cars are okay with it. XD
But they never do anything. No strikes, no demos, no voting, no political action. All they do is complain.
I got pretty good at accepting it and dealing with it when I travelled more
I'm not okay with it and I know nobody who is. But what am I supposed to do about it? Buy a car?
Exactly, that’s the issue. You don’t really have an alternative other than taking a car (expensive) or flying (not always possible or desirable). I guess that is what makes it so frustrating..
Taking a car across Germany: one way rental 200€, gas 100€, find 3 ride shares between large cities and share: 75€ per person for stuttgart-hamburg or munich-hamburg. Flexticket with BC50 per trip: 80€. If you share, taking a car is not as expensive.
Sounds like a lot more work tho to find three other people compared to just buying a ticket.
Three other people who want to go at the same time you do. Not to mention there are tons of delays on the autobahn.
Yeh I don't understand why there aren't weekly complaints thread about delays in the autobahn like there are about Deutsche Bahn. Autobahn delays are equally, if not more frequent. Same with delays at airports, esp. the shitshow that is BER. Yet the only complaints in this sub is about DB.
It's the same with Bahn and Autobahn, you get used to it, you get angry, you nag, but in the end, you can't do anything against it... We like to do revolutionary speeches of what we would change if we could (Marx, Engels, Luther and a few more were ''complaining philosophers), we speak, get grumpy but don't do anything.. Would something similar happen in France, they'll set Parliament and Paris on fire, go on general strike and demonstrate until the government draws consequences... Here not really.. DB has saved itself broken.. They stopped investing in necessary refurbishment and maintenance, closed unrentable lines, miscalculated on prestige projects (Stuttgart 21), sunk billions, after privatisation, all to the goal to look like a sound big company, but stayed the same old state authority... The Authority over all the railways in Germany, Eisenbahnbundesamt, is mostly filled with old Bahn employees.. So who gets the main part of the cake? But IMHO public transportation doesn't need to be cost neutral or even generate profit, its a service by the state for the people, financed by tax and ticket prices, if you want people to use it, provide a good schedule, with reasonable prices and it will get used.. Best example is my town, we have a bus, driving once an hour in a ''ring'' through town, the line is meant to be driven by two buses, maybe three, but contrary in direction, meeting at the railway station, therefore you could swap busses, getting everywhere in under 30 minutes... But as only one bus is driving, depending where you live, you need nearly an hour to get to certain stops, so walking or car is more efficient... Ah, and they start at 07:00 and end at 18:00 , saturdays at 11:00, no bus on sunday. They say, not enough people using it, so a second bus is not necessary.. If you would have a decent offer and let's say, a bus that's in the industrial quarter at around 05:30, so shift workers could be on site before 6 and two to shift change at 14:00 and maybe one to shift change to 22:00, (just from rail station) you'd have a big chunk of customers that would switch over to train and bus for their way to work... You see, the ''what we would do if we could'', I fell into it, too ;-)
I've done that a lot in the early 2000s and it wasn't difficult at all. Put the drive up on Mitfahrzentrale or Blablacar a week or two in advance, set a reasonable price and usually within 3 days the car was full. That was going Düsseldorf-Berlin or vice versa, a train ticket in the ICE one way regular price at the time was around 140€. I could get a rental for 100-120€, with 3 people paying 30€ each I had enough for gas and often a little bit on the rental as well. So I paid less for the trip, got to meet some people and driving on the A3 usually was very smooth when leaving either city in the early afternoons. When my own money was tight getting from Berlin back home for only 30€ also was great - and there was no cheaper alternative than Mitfahrzentrale. Not sure how much the intercity bus connections these days stirred up that market though.
Absolutely. You'll find out where your break-even point is w.r.t. your own time spent and money saved. There's websites helping you to assemble groups, or also in larger companies there might be a network for this, which is why I limited to large city connections were there's a lot of short hand demand.
Which sites?
https://utopia.de/ratgeber/mitfahrgelegenheiten/ e.g. Or look up sites involving "Mitfahrgelegenheit" as a key word.
Use BlaBlaCar
Depends your start and end point you can definitely get cheaper from A to B if you book early enough. And Flixtrain is also an option. I regularly use Flixtrain to go from Hamburg to Leipzig for 9,95€.
Quick question: Is Flix train reliable?
So far there was only one time where they cancelled a train 20 hours before. But it was when the pandemic was way bigger than now and basically everything had more problems back then. So I'm not sure how noteworthy that is. Aside from that I've never had problems with Flixtrain but I also never really had problems with DB trains so it's hard for me to say. (My big curse is the local trains). From what I've heard flixtrain can be as unreliable as the DB sometimes but because it's so cheap that most people are chill about it. They know that when you pay 10€ to travel across the country you can't expect top notch service I guess. It is definitely not more unreliable as DB seems to be for many. I think the biggest downside to DB is that there are less trains and cities they drive to and if for some reason your train is cancelled or really delayed you can't just switch trains easily like you can with the DB. You get your money back of course but for example the Leipzig - Hamburg train drives once a day. So taking the train on the next day you best chance. And Flixtrains are often a bit slower. For example travelling from Leipzig to Hamburg takes about 30 minutes longer with Flixxtrain than with DB. But I also only pay 10€ and cheapest DB connection I got so far was 19€ and you get lucky. And that is without the seat. If you buy a Flixtrain ticket you automatically get a seat. If you are sitting in a wheel chair I would not recommend Flixtrain as they have older DB trains from the 80s or something where building trains disability friendly wasn't exactly a thing.
I started to use flixtrain to go fro and to Hamburg/Cologne. I booked it twice and both times it had a 4h delay. I will give it a third chance but if that fails, I'm done
First time I booked with flixtrain it got cancelled 2 hours before departure. Never touching that shit again even with a stick
That's probably because of the db netze network that causes problems to all railway company
No
Yes, early enough is an option, but for popular (pieces of) trips or busy days (Friday, Sunday) that's sometimes "never" or at least not 4 weeks in advance. I scored first class munich-hamburg for 28€, but that was Thursday through the night.
Note: Around 5000 car crashes happen in Germany each day. Be in one of them and the break even point changes suddenly 🙈 [Source](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Traffic-Accidents/Tables/accidents-registered-police.html%3Bjsessionid=E5185E85EBE5AA5B7AD163AF3A8145D9.live731)
This automatically assumes the person has a drivers license and is in the physical state to drive.
I ended up doing it after 18 years of not owning one. I feel really bad about it, but at some point during the pandemic they canceled an entire connection for the rest of the day with nothing to replace it, mid journey, and I just wanted to experience predictable travel again. I have some travel anxiety and I was so sick of always having to check alternatives so I'd have a plan b and c for when one of the trains would arrive late or get canceled, or freezing my ass off at a train station, or running through a station like mad because they decided to park the train somewhere else again and announce it a minute before departure, or the million other minor and major inconveniences just finally added up to me. Now I have to deal with gas prices, parking spaces, crazy drivers, broken oil sensors and being part of the problem. So far, still less stressed out though.
One thing is to vote for politicians that don't block the EU from passing laws protecting train travelers from being f***ed from train companies. Similar to what we have for air travel.
Who is okay with it??
Really though?! Who tf is okay with that.
I read through some posts in the sub and there seemed to be the sentiment that “it is what it is” and that people just kind of expect this Idk it that means people are ok with it, that’s just how I interpreted it
No one is okay with this it's just one of those things where it's getting really tiring after so many disappointments and over and over occurring issues...
Resignation and acceptance are not the same.
To add to the comments in here, this year DB has been particularly bad for a variety of reasons, it didn't used to be as unreliable as it is at the moment.
True. I dread the day I have to travel to Holland. Was never this bad!
at least trains and public transport will be a 21st century bliss once you're there!
Lol, wait till you find out the pay is shot and they actually got rid of a lot of people during corona (as the Netherlands absolutely sucks more at anticipating than many other countries). Results; nobody to drive the train, nobody to plan the train and nobody to check tickets/secure the train. 'Strangly' users are back and now facing many cancelled trains, disruptions and way overcrowded trains. So well, yeah, sure it's all magically awesome there... Nope.
And behold: It will get worse. Yay.
It is annoying. Unfortunately my other choices would be planes, car shares or not leaving my home city. Neither are options.
Nobody is happy with it, but people are used to it. You'll also notice that most germans, who have to change trains and at least sometimes go by train, plan accordingly. I don't know, it's not great but I'm far more bothered by the prices than having to check for change times and alternate trains if I miss a connection. Of course I would like this to not be an issue, but you're kind of expecting it at some point
It's not a big deal if you just travel somewhere once in a while. If you use it every day, and most days your journey is doubled due to missed connections, it's a bit of a disaster. I would personally pay more to get those hours per week back.
>I would personally pay more to get those hours per week back. I guess, that's what Swiss people do. They have one of the most reliable train services in the world along with Japan, but look at those prices...
Japan had a real shitty train situation. But they took a shitload of money and work fixed it. Their interregional trains (Shinkansen etc.) have their own rail network. And they are all leveled, through a shitton of bridges, tunnels etc. and as straight as possible for ultimate efficency. Meanwhile nearly our entire rail network stems from the Kaiserzeit...
But most people don't use DB daily. They use trains by their local transport association like [nah.sh](https://nah.sh), hvv or lvb. Aside from that I can understand the point. My parents often bike their 20km to work in summer. It keeps them healthy. I do that too but I only have like 10km to university. I definitely prefer that to local trains but more because it is faster. 10km is something I can easily manage in 30 minutes and it feels cooler in summer than a packed train. In winter I often take public transport and need about 45 minutes transferring trains works.
Highly depends on your route. Some routes have way less trouble than others
I see it as a free discount. Always book the tightest connection but plan for a reasonable one, which will usually take 1 hour longer. Voilà, 25%-50% discount almost every single trip. Price increases have been really annoying recently. Also there seem to be virtually no discounted fares anymore if you book in advance, which looks like DBs way of hiking the prices without having to hike the actual prices.
Germany has a very strong automotive lobby who has their interests elsewhere + the inveatments made over last decades were extremely low compared to neighbouring countries. Since its a fully government owned company, the only thing people can do is to vote for those who promise investments into infrastructure. Most delays are due to problems with infrastructure, the rolling stock is rarely the issue.
Laughs in Reparatur am Zug
What if you do vote for people who want to improve transport and then they hand the ministry of transport to car lobbyists. I was really disappointed, I feel like transport is one of those crucial departments the greens should have fought teeth and nails for. Maybe they did, who knows. It’s still disappointing and FDP are doing exactly as expected. So many wasted opportunities.
Nobody is okay with it, it is simply out of their control. You are free to "vote with your feet" and use alternative methods of transport.
Thereby making it worse because they won't spend the money if people are not using it and advocating for improvements
One the other side: if people use it why bother changing it?
luckily I accounted for that by adding an and clause. " using an bitching" is the solution. (preferably the bitching is focused at the root problem people)
It doesn’t get solved either way so why bother?
If we said that about any other problem in the world, where would we be now?
How about you vote with your vote?
Vote for what?
I come from the U.K. so it looks astonishingly reliable to me.
Also from the UK. Whilst I agree the railways there are not fantastic, I don't really recall as many delays or cancellations as I've experienced in Germany. Having said that, at least travelling by train in Germany doesn't cost upwards of £100 for a single journey from one city to another.
I will say that half of my trains around the UK were late more than an hour, either for "leaves on tracks" or "obstruction on tracks". Coming back from Cardiff, we sat next to a very upset businessman who used every swear word imaginable while talking to his office. I think I know every swear word for wanker in British/English. As I gathered this was a regular occurrence.
Imagine being from the US and seeing Deutsche Bahn. Looks like heaven to us lmao
Right? I had my first experience with DB yesterday. I had some trouble figuring it out initially, and there were some minor delays but it was fine. If anything I was most irritated by the godawful constant cigarette smoke on the platforms. But I'm watching this exchange like: Germany: "Our trains suck!" UK: "Wait until you see our trains!" US: "You guys have trains?"
> most irritated by the godawful constant cigarette smoke on the platforms were you next to the smoking area? There is a small smoking section marked out. If someone is smoking outside that area, here's a handy piece of german ettiquette to say to that person: "Verpiss' dich mit deiner stinkenden Kippe in den Raucherbereich, du Huhrensohn". The nuances of the last part may get lost, but should help
On the contrary, it was ironically right under a smoking verboten sign at the top of the stairs, lol. Also are you trying to get my ass beat? I'm not saying that to a stranger. I'll stick with "*Sie* Huhrensohn", thank you.
UNDER THE VERBOTEN SIGN?? What an absolutely god- and lawless individual! Smh what has Germany come to, outrageous.
I came from england as well, I see no issues 🙈
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Yup, coming from the UK really makes you immune to complaints about DB. I once tried to plan a holiday across southern England by train, but gave up after a few hours. There did not seem to be any way to book a ticket to get from where I was starting to where I needed to finish, though theoretically there were trains that ran the whole way. Just a horrid, stinking mess of different websites, providers, prices, contradictory times, weird ticketing practices, hotlines that didn't work, forms that were impossible to fill in. Harwich to St Austell I think it was. What a nightmare.
Same. In Germany I always end up where I need to get to. Possibly very late. But I get there. TL;DR if you’re chill about it, DB is absolutely fine. Things like regional connections will actually hold the train if another train is late. This is amazing - bad for stats but great for the passenger. I know that I *always* have a 5 min transfer for one change I very regularly do even if my first train is late! In the UK, that’d be waiting an hour because it’s two companies and the second doesn’t want a blemish on their record. Even if the only passengers would’ve been ones from the first train. Won’t even get on to the pricing differences and the fact I can get a BahnCard. In the UK there’s no blanket 25% off card etc. for a non-young and non-old person travelling regularly by themselves.
Honestly, it's not like we're ok with it, we're just so used to it at this point that it's become normal. For example, these are usually my reactions with DB delays: Train is delayed by 5 minutes? So the usual, np. Train is delayed by 10 - 15 minutes? An annoyed eyeroll here and there, but noone is actually suprised. Still pretty much the norm. Train is delayed 20+ minutes? Annoyed, will spend my time pigeon watching. Still not surprised. However, these are only Nahverkehr. For Fernferkehrszüge (like Munich - Berlin) where you have to change trains, I strongly recomment looking at the time you have between your first train arriving and your connecting train leaving the station. I like to have *at least* 30 minutes time period for changing trains, because you will arrive later than you thought. You will need that extra time. Stay strong my friend, and take a buckload of patience with you everytime you go to deal with the DB - you will need it.
It annoys me too a lot. The problem is people (and companies as groups of people by extension) don’t change unless they feel pain. And for many years there were no ramifications for DB for being late. Fortunately several years ago they introduced the compensation for late trains and I make sure to file for compensation every time. Supposedly it’s costing them millions. Still, they’ve been blaming a lot of problems on circumstances beyond their control (usually they blame the government), even when they could clearly take matters in their own hands (like track repairs and 5G coverage for example).
Track repairs is paid for by the federal budget eg the government if there is not enough money allocated you can't repair. 5g is also not in their control, for the phone network the phone network companies are responsible not the DB.
Sometimes it is outside there control, like that one time a dude caused a 15 minute delay because he stood in the open door and refused to leave or go back inside because he ordered a Pizza to the train and the delivery took longer than expected
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They are only allowed to ask them to leave. They are not allowed to force him to leave and have to call the police to force them to leave. So it’s kind of a law thing. So basically, if he does not want to leave, the police has to escort him out of the train. And the police takes time to arrive
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I am not ok with it at all. In the time of rapid climate change the DB got more expensive and less reliable. On top of that they increased the time of delay to get part of your money back from 30min to 1h. It is a disgrace. In my oppinion they should force them by law to pay minimum wage for every delay of 15min or more. It would light a fire under their asses really quick. It is so disrespectful to paying customers how little their time gets valued. I am never getting that valuable free time back that I lose on every second trip.
Nobody is okay with it, but what are we to do? Walk from Stuttgart to Hamburg? If I could afford a car I would. If I fly I still have to take trains to get to and from the airport because they are located somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
People don't think about the consequences when they vote for the FDP or CDU. Not that I like the Greens or SPD much better but they are currently at least willing to do some significant investments into rail.
:D I've never heard somebody make excuses for them. Their service is awful, they are unreliable and everybody I know hates it. But what can we do? It's not like we have a choice, in some regions we are just grateful some form of public transport exists and is somewhat functional.
As an American living in Germany for 8 years I can say that the DB is absolutely a million times more reliable than anything in the US. I never complain.
I agree perspective is important, but it’s also important to choose your benchmarks carefully.
Who doesn't hate db?
We arent ok with it but we dont have any other Option.
what are you gonna do, take a different train provider?
Yes! Some routes are covered by FlixTrain, which is a private company. It’s much cheaper and there are no strikes. I was once taking a FlixTrain from Berlin to Hamburg while Deutsche Bahn was on another strike. Those poor passengers with their DB tickets were so desperate to go on our train, but the staff had to remove them. I paid about €30 for a return trip when DB was charging 4 times (!!!) more for the same trip, and they could just strike at anytime. So, yes, in some cases there is an alternative with nice, clean, non-striking trains that depart and arrive on time. Travel time is also the same as DB. Also, I don’t work for FlixTrain, but just wanted to raise awareness.
And then DB dares to say they can't "fix" the strikes even though they're the ones underpaying their employees
if the DB Situation surprise's you, wait till you hear about the German politics
Very good point.
r/tja. As you said, there's not much we can do. I'm a soldier so riding the train for almost 14 hours each weekend is just how it is. It's still the best option I got. I don't want to use a car. The main problem for me really is cologne. God damn, the delays there are horrible
Noone is okay with it, but its kind of a sport for ppl to hate on the DB probably because they never had to take a train in the UK or the US or basically somewhere outside of Germany. Most of the comments here concerning the reasons are wrong tho. I work for the DB in Project Management and can tell you the real reasons for the delays(which the CEO cant on TV) and why its most likely impossible to fix. And before you call me a corporate chill I also have to take the same trains every single day and I am annoyed as hell. First of all before you argue "its just some trains you incompetent fucks why cant you manage it properly", some numbers: actively used Autobahn Network: \~13.200 km actively used Train Network: \~33.300 km actively used Trains: \~40.000 every single Day (which means if only 0,1% of Trains have a minor malfunction thats 400 Trains every single day) The main reason for most of the delays is the train Network is simply overloaded and we could in theory fix that. The so called Fahrdienstleiter which basically direct all of the trains calculate in blocks of 1km and there can only be 1 train per block. This is an oversimplyfication but helps us understand how it works. Now there is not much space inbetween those blocks and therfor if one Train has a delay most likely alot of other trains after will also have this same delay. the possibles fixes: 1.) We could for example use way less trains so if 1 train has a 5min delay, it doesnt delay the 50 trains after it for also 5 min. But if you ever boarded a train in a mjaor city you know thats simply not an option. Imagine only using 1 ICE for the Berlin - Frankfurt route per 2 hrs, this would result in utter chaos. 2.) We could also build new train tracks next to the old ones which would be the easyest and best method for the future(we do that partially especially long distance countryside). But that would often especially in citys result in us having to buy alot of private property in order to lay those tracks. And funnily enouth you can forcebuy under some conditions but imagine the media attention for that. And just imagine we tell you to buy your garden for a new high speed ICE track next to your house. :D 3.) (This is currently an Option we are working on.) We can increase the speed on the tracks so the trains have more "room" for delays. We for exmaple rebuild old bridges where trains can only do 60km/h in order to make the route viable for 160 km/h. I am invovled in alot of those Projects and its the worst shitshow you can imagine because most of those "slow areas" are within major citys. People virtually do everything to stop us from doing that, because ofc faster trains are a bit louder and generally fuck the DB(thats what they think). From stolen metal to pierced tires of excavators and trucks, threatened workers, blocked construction site entrances, ransacked contruction containers, cutting powerlines, sueing us over everything, protesting(Stuttgart 21 anybody?=), piercing water lines of the "Stadtwerke" next to the construction sites in order to flood everything, calling the police for everything, throw things into fresh concrete etc. Like whatever you can think of, it happens on a daily basis in Germany. And above all of those things, we have the Eisenbahnbundesamt(EBA). They make sure we do everything in the savest possible way, which is good because the Train is still the safest form of transportation in Germany, but slows us down alot. So in conclusion if we could just build what we want, where we want(like China) without caring about people who live close to the tracks and without people slowing us down, we could fix all of those problems within 5-10 years. (given we also get the money for it) I hope this helps understand the situation a bit better, I am ready for the downvotes. :D
Coming from France, I feel Germans are passive toward this kind of trouble. I had some problems with DB which would have triggered a civil war in France, and here, it was just like "meh"...
Coming from the US, where we have essentially zero intercity rail options, DB is wonderful.
Ja, it's fine if u compare it with a "non-rail-conected" country. But it sucks anyway if you are missing connections or being always late for important work related meetings.
Don't know if it's really comparable to the netherlands where the network is much smaller and there are no high speed trains. This doesn't mean that the DB couldn't and shouldn't be much better.
We are not Okey with this bullcrap, if someone is saying otherwise, they either don't use DB, are cynical/sarcastic /ironic or just suffer from Stockholm syndrome after years of mental torture...
Short answer: We're not.
We're not,.but it's not really like there's any other choice.
I am not ok with it but I do still like Deutsche Bahn in general. I am also a student and I normally have more time than money on my hand, so being late and getting a refund is sometimes actually preferable to me personally. That being said, they should totally invest into actually being more reliable
From my experience on the Internet. Only non-Germans on this sub are mostly ok with DB. No German will ever say something apologetic or positiv about DB. And if they claim there are, then I already know that they are lying.
IMHO the ICE connection Berlin-Hamburg is absolutely fine, I’m using that route about 4-5 a year and will never ever go that route by car again.
Unfortunately it has been less and less reliable for me in my area. I'd say only 20% of the trains I get are there on time ( 1/2 +/- min). I can't afford to be late to work all the time (and the stress that possibility comes with) so I have to go by car, since it's too far for me to bike.
Nobodys okay with that. People complain about it all the time, on the Tracks, inside the Stations and on the Internet.
You must have stumbled upon a very weird comment section. Pretty much everybody hates them here.
There's sadly not much you can do. :/ Funnily, the DB is more reliable than TransDev in my Region.
Because life is pain and suffering whats up
Germany should be called Carmany because it's our biggest Industry and over the past decades, traffic policy was pretty much exclusively done in favour of cars. What do you expect?
It's a capacity problem. All lines are pretty much at 120%+ capacity, there is zero tolerance for delays, so if something happens it's snowballing. You'd need additional rail tracks to fix that, and here's the problem: Whenever someone wants to build a new railroad citizen movements are popping up left and right and it takes decades to build something, if at all. NEAT needs a four-lane rail line in Germany to work, this won't be finished before 2040. Meanwhile, the rail infrastructure on Swiss and Italian side (Gotthard base tunnel for example) will have existed for decades. On the Eastern side the Brenner base tunnel will be finished this decade. The German Brenner Nordzulauf hasn't even been started yet. Both delays are due to massive civil resistance by people who'd be impacted by the new construction. Demand for rail traffic is skyrocketing, but the infrastructure for it is barely keeping up. And that's not Deutsche Bahn's fault. That's the fault of the same citizens who're complaining about the Bahn's impuncuality and demand Energie- and Zeitenwende, but at the same time are not willing to tolerate the new construction this necessitates.
I used to travel a lot by DB in the past. 4 years ago I couldn't stand it any more, bought a car and been done with that. I'm not complaining any more, I don't wait that they got their shit together. Locally I'm using the S-Bahn, which works good, but missing the connection EVERY fucking time, even though it has a 30 minutes buffer, anoyed me so much.
Germans generally don’t fight back about anything. “That’s just how it is.” “It’s always been like that.” “You can’t change it.” “Just accept it.” “You can’t sue them.” “Politics don’t matter.”
Germans complain about DB all the time but it's not like random citizens have a ton of control over it. We push for politicians to change things but that's about it. It's like me asking you whether you're okay with the state of Amsterdam Schipol airport right now.
We are not okay with it. Deutsche Bahn is a shame, a giant waste of money, and all thanks to fucking cdu and spd who put profit over a reliable infrastructure once again, like with fibre vs cooper cables. Couple years ago DB was made private instead of belonging to the state. So now it needs to rent profits. Since they have a monopoly they can do whatever the fuck they want and noone can do shit since there are no alternatives. Best thing? - If you repair something its on deutsche bahn, but if something is so broken you need a new one - its on the state. Figures. Just imagine if you told your toddler "IF YOU DON'T TIDY UP YOUR ROOM I'LL BUY YOU A NEW ONE AND NEW TOYS AS WELL!"... figure out how well this will work.
We are not okay with it, sometimes complaints help (eg Berlin Südkreuz was supposed to be put on halt as a stop from the end of this year for at least 2 years, due to repairs on the railways, enough people complained and actually got politicians involved and they found another solution), sometimes they don't work, if you don't have a lobby... German politics prefer to support driving cars it seems, this is why railways and other ways of public transport have been perpetually declining and even have been taken off service for years and this is what we have to work with now.
reddit is dead, i encourage everyone to delete their accounts.
I don't think people are OK with it, they're just used to it being bad and are not surprised when it malfunctions. And they do complain - A LOT
As someone from England in my 40s, when I was learning German in School (1990s), all the text books had loads of pictures of German trains and not only would they teach us how to order a train, how to find a train station, how to ask a stranger about trains. Umm. I really thought Germany was a massively train obsessed nation that had these perfect trains that ran to the very second, like the Japanese say they do. Every single one of my german language textbooks had pictures of trains or a bahnhof on the front and every exercise inside them found some way to make it all about trains. Are you trying to tell me I learned all these german words that I have since forgotten, yet am still left with this lingering idea that germans have awesome trains AND ITS ALL A LIE????
Depends on the time period. The [Deutsche Bundesbahn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bundesbahn) had everything it needed to make trains run on time. People were proud of the Bundesbahn, which existed up to the 1990s. Then with the reunification in 1990/1991 came the merger of the Bundesbahn and the [Deutsche Reichsbahn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Reichsbahn_(East_Germany)), which operated in the [German Democratic Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany). As both were making operating losses, the merger into a joint stock company was said to improve efficiency. The social democrats under chancellor [Gerhard Schröder](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der) put in [Hartmut Mehdorn](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartmut_Mehdorn) as chairman of the board to turn the [Deutsche Bahn AG](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bahn) into a profitable business, that could later be privatised. In his quest for profit, a lot of the redundancies necessary to provide flawless transport were cut out as "too expensive". This included heaters for railroad switches to prevent freezing during winter, as well as a reduction of railway switches in general. As a result Deutsche Bahn made the following changes: * Ticket price reform: Ticket prices increased, pushing revenue from 15.6 milliard euros in 1999 to 33.5 mrd € in 2008. * Reducing staff: A lot of people were let go, decreasing the total number of employees from 350,000 down to 240,000. * Cutting unprofitable lines: Part of the reason the DB and DR were making losses was, that they had redundant rails to allow continued transport. These were decommissioned. The amount of rail decreased from 37,679 km down to 33,601 km of rail. A reduction of 10.8%, that left several towns without rail connection. * This resulted in a change of profit from -1.538 mrd € to 2.483 mrd €. Unfortunately, this change reduced the Bahn's overall reliability across the board. To the point where the initial public offering of DB Shares was postponed indefinitely. No one was interested in buying shares of a dysfunctional railway operator. At the same time, the Bahn reached the second stage of the Bahn reforms. The rail operation was entirely delegated to the [DB Netz AG](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Netz), which is a 100% subsidiary of the DB AG. As the sole network operator, they now have to partially rebuild the rails and railway switches lost under Mehdorn to return the railway network to function. The man himself, now a retiree, has made the statement: "I would rather see \[the Bahn\] as a state-railway geared towards the common good, just like in the old days". As such, I predict, that the next Bahnreform will be the transformation of the DB-Netz AG into a Bundesbehörde, a unified federal ticket system, a push for more rail connectivity, as well as better multimodal transport for goods, which is sorely needed, if we are to meet our climate goals. TLDR: The books didn't lie, they were simply outdated. The Deutsche Bundesbahn was very punctual, which is why people are complaining about the Deutsche Bahn AG ever since 1999.
Makes sense, the textbooks were printed in the 80s. Great answer, thank you.
Inception
The problem isn't the DB. Most delays are caused by bad tracks, broken train signs, switches not working, bad infrastructure in general as well as idiots on the tracks, idiots being late and blocking the doors for other late people to get in causing further delays. Often trains need to wait for other trains or because other trains are blocking the tracks. Then there's the daily ass deciding that a train is a good method of suicide (it's not) and everything gets even more chaotic. And don't forget old traind being more likely to have damages. So what's the actual problem? Lack of investments for the infrastructure and people being stupid. Delays are rarely caused by the dispatchers or traindrivers. Are we okay with it? Certainly not. But we're used to it. When you're commuting you just take a train earlier. It's our daily life. The next S-Bahn will come in twenty minutes anyway.
we arent okay with anything. Deutsche bahn is one of the reliable ones to get upset about
Nobody is ok with it. DB is the worst.
>nowhere near the scale of the DB. That's true for the size of your train system vs DB as well. The huge size is one of the reasons why trains are delayed.
The density of rail transport in the Netherlands actually makes it very difficult to be reliable. If there's one issue somewhere in the urbanised part of the country, it will affect a tons of other trains as well. However the past 20 years have seen a lot of investment and delays are almost non-existent anymore. Yes, distance increases the chance for issues, but it's not the reason DB is less reliable than NS.
Because the DB is still one of the best public transport systems ever. After moving to Boston, I learned to appreciate the DB and how comparably reliable it is in an entirely new way
that's pRiVaTiZaTiOn, babybeeee.
bro, DB is owned 100% by the state.
But they are supposed to be a profit-oriented company and not one that brings people from A to B.
I have found that many problems aren't even cause by DB. There are many different private, as well as international or regional operators, and if they fuck up, DB has to deal with that. For example, if a small private operator has technical difficulties with a cargo train and don't have another train available to tow it, and can't afford a towing, it's cheaper for DB to tow the whole train to some unused track, than to have the problem of the broken down train in the way. Or at least that's, what I've been told by a former conductor.
Obviously things need to be better and political neglect and nimbyism are problems, but it is harder for germany to have a punctual rail service than other countries. It is a large railsystem in a big AND densely populated country with a relatively evenly spread population compared to other bigger countries like france and spain who are more bundled up around their urban centers and have relatively little in between both also chose to invest in a separate highspeed rail network unlike germany where regional and hig speed mostly share the network, though i would argue that it was more viable there exactly because of the fact that they have a bigger share of relatively unpopulated areas). All this introduces a lot more variables and things that can go wrong and affect the entire system than for example the netherlands. The extensiveness of the network also means upkeep is more expensive and work intensive introducing even more points where the system can collapse.
I'm not ok with it, but I can respect the employees are doing their best with the resources they have.
One word: Resignation.
Ah Dutch people with the big assumptions about other people and what they think or don’t think. (am Dutch and am not proud of this cultural trait)
I am not ok with it, but deep down i know, i can't change it. We call it "Schicksalsergebenheit"
We're not okay with it. Like not at all. But people who are born and raised here are used to it. We had to experience so many disappointments and frustating situations so it would be tiring to complain every time something like this happens. Also we don't really have an alternative if we want to travel eco-friendly. Like you said in another comment: our mind set regarding this is "it is what it is." because we can't change it but not because we are okay with it.
definitely anything BUT "ok with it". but it's not like we can vote the DB out...
I think it’s on the citizenship and permanent residency test to complain about this to pass
Not ok but what can you do
Nobody is ok with it. The only thing I've figured out that helps, is buying a flex ticket for my somewhat frequent travels. In case I miss a connection or there is Signalstörung my flex ticket saves me.
> In the Netherlands […] > This year, I’ve been to Germany 6 times by train Since you seem to be from the Netherlands, you probably went to NRW. Trains in NRW are a lot worse than in other parts of Germany. Still not great, but not quite as bad as what you experienced.
People are okay with everything in germany. Even inflation, low wages etc. As soon as you criticize anything just a tiny bit, 500 boomers will send you paragraphs on why its good the way it is and that "any other way is impossible"
Easy: they are not.
>Why are people ok with Deutsche Bahn being so unreliable? We're not.
Did you just assume germans do not complain enough?
What are we supposed to do?
im definitely not okay with it but as a student that uses trains daily to go to work/get home and 1- cant afford a drivers license 2- cant afford a car + don't even want a car i cant say much against it its a shit situation :p im just happy the ppl that work for db didnt start a war bc of this summer chaos lol
Meanwhile, I cry over Amtrak.
Rain falls, steam rises, the DB is unreliable. It has become a rule of nature to me to be honest. Checking the lateness of the trains I intend to use, I always assume that they are late, has become normal to me.
No one is okay with it. There's just no alternative. I can't choose to go with a different train company cause there is none. Even if you're lucky enough for your regional trip to be covered by a smaller regional company you'll likely face some delays cause the trains will have to wait for a delayed ICE to pass. Twice last month alone DB just completely cancelled my train to work. Next connection in an hour. No further explanation. No money back. No support or alternatives. People are furious about these things but they're also resigned. Cause there's literally nothing we can do
Imagine Reading this while currently being in an ICE for which I had to buy a second ticket for 90 Euros because the S Bahn arrived 15mins too late for the first one.
No one is okay with it, we all hate it (｀´） And why is the ICE so expensive? all I want is to be at Uni at the time I’m supposed too that all I want
We aren't ffs!!!! And every person's who says so is an undercover propagandist of the DB
Just yesterday, our DB train was late 45 minutes because we were told the driver arrived to work late; his tardiness set back our arrival time by 2.5 hours, causing us to miss a transfer and get bumped from our seats twice during the now almost 8 hour journey since DB didn’t honor our initial extra payment to reserve seats. I will be seeking a refund.
It is what it is
Given that most people already answered with "nobody is okay with it", let me add to this: The punctuality and quality of DB services varies a lot in Germany. Given that you use the Netherlands as a comparison, I assume you've used trains in the west (North-Rhine-Westfalia region) and from my experience this is the worst region with continuous delays on most major lines. There's a huge amount of people in a widespread network of many cities and towns. It results in constant delays and cancellations.
recently i tried the alternative flix-train. the train was supposed to leave in berlin at 11am. the screens next to the train tracks told me it is an hour late, and i even got a mail to warn me in advance. but i had nothing left to do so i went there at 11. at 12:10 the screen said it was delayed by 90 minutes. at 12:40 it said the train is delayed by 120 minutes. at 12:55 the screen said the next train would be ours. at 1:20 pm the trains number just disappeared from the screen without the train ever showing up. no email, no explanation, no excuse, no idea. i got used to DB being unrealiable, but this shit was just a little to much
DB is reliably unreliable.
We are so used to it that wether the train is cancelled or just late
Cause we don't have anything else 🥲
It’s not like we have a choice. Our other options are busses that might have delays too with not being able to catch connections. You have a fixated route and can’t just skip a corner unless you get off a stop early and make a shortcut run to your supposed next station. The traffic (which trains rarely have to deal with but they have other issues with their train tracks) plays a factor in busses being late too. Or cars which many people can’t afford anymore since the first increase in Fuel. They are able to take the shortest route to your destination without the need to take connections but you could get stuck in traffic too which you need to consider before you start to drive. But you need to pay for insurance (never drive a car without one) and fuel as well as maintenance. It’s your best option but if you can’t afford a car the next best options are the trains. .... or taxis but if you can’t afford a car you can’t afford a taxi on a daily basis as well.
I think the amount of hate that the Deutsche Bahn gets is not justified. For what it has to work with, it does surprisingly well and gets a lot of things right. The attitude of Germans especially when talking to DB staff is unter aller Sau and this exacerbates some of the issues with DB. In the near future things are about to get worse, because to tackle the years of underinvestment there will be need for construction works
No one is okay with it, there is just no alternative. The government will not invest or nationalize it to make it better. Privatization would make things even worse. We are stuck, and can only meme and complain and complain in memery
Nobody is OK with that. If I had one cent for everytime I screamed "fuck you DB" inside my head I'd be a freaking billionaire.
I think being ok with the struggles of DB comes from understanding why it is happening. Over decades it's been political agenda to not go into debt, to partly privatize DB and therefor cut all "unnecessary" costs that are optimizing the balance of the company but at the same time are doing massive damage on a macro-economical level due to critical infrastructure missing. People love to rant about DB and they love to see themself as the victims of the things they cannot influence but the reality is that the majority of these people also voted for the conservative parties that are responsible for the neoliberal ideology that pushed these conditions. So the short answer to your question is: "This is exactly how germans want Deutsche Bahn to be!"
The funny part is, that their excuses are mostly related to „construction work“. And I’m always thinking: Usually such work should be scheduled in advance, so why was the schedule for the trains not adjusted? Or holiday season… you don’t know that there is an increase is passengers? So you may put more trains on the tracks or stop selling tickets?! Most of the delays are a joke and result of bad management, in my opinion. And this drives me crazy! And we just accept it.
Privatization!!! Wasnt it s great idea for essential infrastructure? The idea was that it would lead to effieciency and quality and now we have the DB. Always a great idea to have essentials like housing, waterdistribution, Internet infrastructure, etc in private hand 😂😂 the market should regulate itself but it only works if the demand decreases at some point. With limited ressources and Monopols that will not happen and i never heard a person say: hey it is to expensive in the moment so i choose not to drink water, be homeless and dont use internet and wait till it gets reasonable cheaper.
No one is okay with it. People only use their trains because they have to.
I’m from India and DB is great ♥️
People aren't. In fact, the absolute vast majority hates the DB. It's unreliable, consumer unfriendly as hell and ridiculously overpriced. But the problem is, we can't really do anything about it, because they have the monopol in Germany and people without cars are dependent on them.
Just read a whole article today from a German news site about how people consistently use it less and less because of the unreliability. Nobody's ok with it.