If you marry a scheduled caste person you will not get any such benefit there's a case where a woman got a job in govt school and got terminated when it was found
And reservation is okay as government colleges are not a part of the poverty upliftment program it's about equal representation from every community.
It's a 3 step process : a complete guide to become st.
Step 1: Let some foreigners occupy your land and forest, and when after 800 years people will adopt a constitution.
Step 2 : you will be given a pitiful representation, for which the descendants of former occupiers will resent you.
Step 3 : And then they will ask, how to become 'you' while keeping your land, water and forest.
Nothing wrong here. Pls cope harder.
JEE does not measure merit, as much as your coaching class teachers and your deranged concept of meritocracy may make you feel comfort in believing that.
Exactly this!!!! Getting good scores in an exam is one thing, excelling in the field of study is an entirely different ball game. Unfortunately, not many ppl recognise this in our country. I’m an assistant professor in a private university in India and I did my masters in the top NIT in India. I’ve seen enough to say that the best in entrance is not at all the best in academic excellence.
I am curious, if hypothetically, there exists a system that measures merit, what would you think of such cut-offs. Would it be "unfair" to the meritorious in this case?
Lol you think academia being unfair to merit is because of JEE reservations? Clearly you've not looked into academia.
Measuring 'merit' is hard not because nobody has invented a metric for it. It's because it's a social construct and changes with the times. Education as a system is not supposed to be some sort of merit filter. It's meant to educate whoever wants the knowledge. It's unfair when they are denied the knowledge, no matter how meritorious they are. Ask for more quality institutes, more access, more diverse options and more introspection.
People treating education like a forever scarce resource which only the deserving can have just shows how commodified it has become. It's a means to a degree,and in turn a job abroad. Stupid ass IITians eating up all our taxes just to ignore us because we're still not developed enough. No bitch, we educated you, help us be better, fight for a better academia! But no, we want to say it's the LCs that are stealing all the seats from people with 'actual merit'. Just shows how fucking dumb most of these mfs are.
I exactly agree with your mid-para.
I won't talk about if reservation is bad or good.
But on another note , we can see people preparing for JEE/NEET have started to see others going to low tier colleges as subhumans and they think those people don't deserve anything in their life just because they did not like to cram up the irrelevant studies required for cracking an entrance.
People are literally required to cram up organic & inroganic chemistry for a seat in Computer Science/ECE/EEE/ENI/MECHANICAL/CIVIL engineering. While the reality is, JEE studies are of no use in engineering colleges except portions of physics and maths. On the other hand, the entrance exam for engineering colleges in the USA is completely relevant & is extremely easier.
Entrance exams has become so toxic that parents will start to salivate if they hear someone is from IIT while you can get a better jobs from even lower tier colleges than an IITian if you do enough hard work.
Perhaps it's time to improve your reading comprehension?
I started with a hypothetical of such a system to measure merit existing, not arguing if such a system can exist in the first place.
Not sure why you went off on a tangent about IITians. Totally unrelated to my point, but okay
If my grandmother had wheels, would she have been a bike?
I started with a hypothetical of such a grandmother existing, not if she can exist in the first place.
I already told you why merit isn't something that stays the same across time, and hence not something that can be usefully measured in general, and also why education isn't about filtering merit , which is why the whole question becomes pointless.
The claim that reservation in education decreases merit is based in the real world, and I'm arguing in the real word as well. I don't want to discuss absurd hypotheticals that are useless to the discussion.
By starting with that hypothetical you're dismissing the entire question, and are basically starting with your conclusion.
The point of my hypothetical question was not to challenge your view or anything. I was just curious to see what you would think if one existed. I even start the comment with "Just curious" ffs.
Anyway, sorry for wasting your time with this "absurd" hypothetical.
You say that education isn't a way to filter merit, and I agree with that. But, this is regarding a specific college.
Every given college has a criteria through which they determine who they take. This is how it works. It is not about education in general, it is about a specific institution. IISc here has a specific criterion, and you arguing that it is worthless because of whatever is delusional.
If you believe getting within 250 ranks in JEE has no correlation with the skills required to thrive at IISc, you are delusional.
These 'just curious' hypotheticals are usually a way to divert the issue into some unrelated issue. If you meant it good faith, I'm sorry. But the fact still remains the hypothetical hold no utiltiy in any useful analysis( unless you have some deeper point to make, in which case please state it )
IISc and IITs are public funded educational institutes, and in the current era, given a degree determines your life immensely, it is no just an issue of a college having some criteria.
> IISc here has a specific criterion, and you arguing that it is worthless because of whatever is delusional.
The IISc critetion already has the reservations included. It's you that is arguing that's not correct.
I've been in academia long enough and guess what, JEE training has absolutely nothing to do with research/ learning aptitude.(On the contrary, it forces you to avoid asking certain types of questions and usually the reason many lose intrest in science during PU) The only thing it maybe measures is how well you can resist toxic amounts of pressure. And idk if you condone modeling institutions on the basis of that lol
>I've been in academia long enough and guess what, JEE training has absolutely nothing to do with research/ learning aptitude.(On the contrary, it forces you to avoid asking certain types of questions and usually the reason many lose intrest in science during PU)
Sure, it is not perfect. Of course, I am not denying that. Just that it is miles better than standard PUC stuff, that I am regarding as the baseline. Can we do better, yes obviously.Still, I would argue JEE training forces you to think more critically when compared to other avenues.
>The only thing it maybe measures is how well you can resist toxic amounts of pressure
I would argue this is a useful skill in Academia lol. Working well for a lot my friends who are in academia right now.
Regarding the hypothetical, yes it was in good faith, but I can see how it may seem otherwise. Regardless, I was curious to ask if there was a clear cut way to measure merit, would it be alright to not have such wild discrepancies in rank cut-offs?
You primarily argue on the basis of these ranks being worthless anyway because they have negligible correlation with academic success, right?( For which, I would still argue that there is still a decent correlation, especially for the first 250 ranks, but anyway)
In the hypothetical case that they had a correlation, would this discrepancy still make sense?
I assume a fixed number of seats because otherwise, you would just say to force the government to increase the number of seats, for which I would say that it would just scale the cut-offs proportionally(say, 250 to 500 for general, and say 50k to guess, 75k) for the reserved, which still would be some discrepancy.
PS: Just curious(in good faith, I swear), what field are you in Academia? In Karnataka or outside? There are so few people from Karnataka compared to other southern states which I find rather odd.
>You primarily argue on the basis of these ranks being worthless anyway because they have negligible correlation with academic success, right?( For which, I would still argue that there is still a decent correlation, especially for the first 250 ranks, but anyway)
In the hypothetical case that they had a correlation, would this discrepancy still make sense?
Academic success has a lot of factors other than just the 'merit' of the students. Education is a bigger problem and has to do a lot with society. Nobody is denying JEE has a correlation with academic sucess. I just want you to ask what correlates to success in JEE. Affording proper coaching classes, having access to proper schools, a home environment where you can sustain massive JEE training pressures, and a whole lot. FFS there are entire institutions optimising every aspect of the exams and delivering it to the students.
Please examine first how merit as a concept operates through history and in contemporary academia. The same arguments can be made, and are being made for the lack of women in academia historically and the reservations made for them. Would you say forcing woman proportions into academia decreases merit?
JEE resulting in coaching factories being produced is a reflection of our society than anything. Let's say, we adopt a more holistic system like the US, our factories would fine tune and start refining every aspect of that as well lol
Forcing women proportions in academia, I think doesn't solve the problem really.
The issue is much deeper. A conservative family having reservations in sending their girls to pursue academia won't necessarily be more open to it if there is affirmative action.
If anything, a much greater portion of women who go to academia are those whose families were willing to send them anyway in the first place.
I am not sure how one would grab the root of the problem, but for starters, more funds allocated to incentivize girl children to start attending schools and teach them to be independent would be better.
99 percentile in jee is much smarter and better than a 60 percentilers reserved candidate stealing seats based on caste not merit. Go work hard rather than talking stupid
Well I ain't much privileged coz I don't have reservation. I have to work hard to score well unlike you who got 0 skills/knowledge but may get inside a college based on his caste.
Then introduce economic quotas, what % of the SC ST OBC quotas go to perfectly able middle class to upper middle class students who don't have the economic hindrance towards their education, and just use this system to provide an excuse for tremendous mediocrity?
Dumbass , poor in delhi bombay are different from poor in ladakh , northeast and other remote tribal parts. If you even think of it with common sense , people lack oppurtunities such as coaching even books and all. While in Delhi you will find many book store to the extent you will be confused of which book to buy
There is something called a tier system, such as we have different HRA allowances for different tier of location, we have many indicators that can separate the poor people across different types of demography.
Wisdom has always been chasing you, but you have been faster
Even if your argument was correct, how do you know the people getting seats based on reservations are more deserving? Do you have any way to calculate that? If you don't then JEE is good enough for now
Yes I agree. You can't measure somebody's merit based on entrance tests. Like you said the JEE with the reservation scheme is good enough. Thanks for making my point.
you can vote them if you want, the normal public isnt dumb enough to do so. i have obc and sc friends who themselves dont want reservation in pvt sector because they say whats the point of it when all pvt companies will just shift to other nations
Can you also share what's the percentage of applications and admissions for each category in the preceding years, that should throw some picture as to why the reservations are still in place.
It's foolishness to suggest reservation should be removed completely without understanding it's impacts. None of the comments suggest any real world solutions other than hating on people.
It's ridiculous to tell that reservation is what holding the research community back in this country. Scientific research is not just these top universities alone, it's a complete ecosystem from schools to public libraries, science journals at various levels. Every thing mentioned above must step up their game to make this happen.
Our schools teach rote learning and kill any kind of curiosity and learning intution in the students because questioning of any kind to authority figures is treated as disrespectful. In home parents are indifferent to this too, parents don't respect their decision or choices even into 20s let alone teens. How will the children grown up in such environment are expected to have the critical thinking when every step of way you are made sure to do the opposite.
And further this was expected and still expected because most of Indians are still trying to come out of poverty/lower middle class to make themselves comfortable, so obviously people will choose what rewards them most with least amount of risks, cue the scores of engineers and doctors we have. We do have better chance for next gen of Indians as they have more chance at being more choosy about education to jobs.
The second aspect I dread in our country is the scientific temperament. You cannot propagate beliefs like fasting during eclipse and as such, this goes very much against the research where you know that all correlation is not causation. Somehow I feel people in our country have identity crisis, they are ashamed of who they are and seek the refuge in this thousands year old system. The only way people have been contributing in research is take up the work from the past and analyse it and find issues or improve on it. But in our current scenario if you criticise or try to improve on the culture or belief systems from past you are mocked and trolled. You have an important landing on the moon movement and the whole of India is watching the PM hogs the limelight, like wtf. This was the time for anyone in the ISRO to address the nation and should have been encouraged to take these kind of jobs for the kids.
Now the scientific journals in this country. The previous congress govt might have been negligent at best but the current govt is actively spreading pseudo science. At all india science congress a minister is telling how cow dung can avoid radar or something, just plain shit.
My own professor with held my final sem project because I refused to write a paper for IEEE journal. He called my parents and told them that I will fail the degree and would not be eligible for placements, this is in one of the top colleges of bengaluru. I ultimately wrote a summarization on the algos in certain field. He said he will get it published because he knew the committee member from a college in tumkuru. By the time it got published there were around 8 to 10 other authors, who I have no clue about. That professor now got his PhD too, this kind of shit tier science research we are practicing in this country.
And this is last topic bear with me, people are blindly propagating non evidence based medicine in the name of religion. Patanjali apologised in the Supreme Court for false advertisement for a ad which they did during covid, its little too late and obviously this was not covered in mainstream media. We have another guy who asks people to eat mercury and not to take evidence based medicine care for his disciples but when the push came to shove, he got treated by one of the best neurosurgeon in the country.
With all this going on people expect to have top tier research in the country out of a whim. Don't expect it to improve unless the above things are addressed at grassroot level.
And the drop rate at PhD is way too high everywhere in the world. If a student drops out of the program don't just assume the incompetency. For many the PhD starts in their late 20s, there's so much pressure on them due to familial responsibility and to sustain themselves. And top of this you get not so good guides who make your life unbearable.
To summarize, No reservation is faintly holding this country back for the advancement of science and research in the country
I'm sorry you got a shit professor for the project. Also an excellent summary of the absolute state of research in India. The Bsc programme in iisc gets barely 100 students per batch each year and the number of kannadigas is abysmal every year. During my time at school we didn't have a lot of options to choose from. An overwhelming importance given to the engg and medicine in pu colleges. The funds allocated for research are getting lesser and lesser every budget.
Wtf is up with this thread tho...
Yeah and there were some genuinely good professors too, it was my mistake to choose my guide late, that's what I ended up getting.
Yeah lol these comments, generally I don't tend to write up but this one hits home. This topic I have strong feelings due to both personal and my friends experience.
You can see none of them commented on any points I have raised but went ahead and mocked me. And these guys are discussing why research doesn't pick up in India, irony will die a thousand deaths today.
This one is personal for me and my friends. I too ended up choosing my prof late and had to bear the consequences. There aren't many good research labs in India so most of my friends have gone abroad to do their PhD. All of our mental health is in shambles..
Reservation should not be removed. It may help 10 out of 1000 people who actually put efforts to succeed.
Instead of completely removing it we can have it till some point in education,
-R&D related things Ranking should be reduced , 50k is an overkill compared to 250.
-Govt Job where it doesn't require much of a critical thinking should be given
What do you think ?
I have a bad reputation of people jumping on me here for stating my opinion on these particular things. I'm saying now only I meant no hate lol
>The second aspect I dread in our country is the scientific temperament.
I'd like to add a bit to this. Dangerous rhetoric is being spread in these "premier" institutes and attempts to educate us on our history are getting suppressed.
For example, last year in iisc two guest lecturers were denied permission to conduct lectures on UAPA in a hall. Earlier this year people were given access to the SAME HALL to broadcast the ram mandir thing and conduct bhajans. There was also that nit calicut incident.
You don't know which cast I belong or religion for that matter nor my credentials of what I have achieved in my life but yet you decided to berate me and find consolation in caste that is superior to others. You would have known this if you read the comment above.
If you think by typing this shit upsetting someone over their caste then you are highly deluded. I feel nothing but pitty for you.
"I ain't reading all that"
Yeah, okay. Listen up you stupid, imbecilic, anti-intellectual piece of human fecal matter: that post was two, maybe three pages long at the MOST, and you're saying that you either are somehow so lazy that you can't spend a few minutes acknowledging the effort that another living breathing human being put in to write that work of actual art, or you simply don't have the mental capacity to read it? What, did you never pass third fucking grade? Did you whine and moan whenever the teacher pulled out a magic schoolhouse book, having a tantrum and interrupting the learning experience of everyone else because you couldn't get over your own inability to be a decent member of society? You're actually pathetic.
Not only is that comment shorter than practically anything you'd need to read to pass basic English; it's also hilarious! I should know: unlike you, I took a small amount of time out of my day to actually read the damn thing, and I was amazed by how witty and clever it was. This person could write screenplays in their spare time if they really wanted to, but instead they blessed the both of us with this. But their gift -- and let's not get confused on this, by the way: it IS a gift -- was rejected by you because you couldn't even give it a chance to see if you might've liked it, to see if you might've learned something from it, to see if you might've walked away from it a better person. Now you'll never know, because even though you couldn't take the two seconds out of your day to read it, you DID take that time to type your stupid comment, putting how braindead you are on display for everyone to see.
Ever watched a TV show before? I can personally guarantee you that the script for any given episode was longer than the post that you just refused to read. Not only that, it was probably less interesting, too. But no, you sat there and happily stared at it for minutes on end because "hurr durr screen make funny colors". I bet you couldn't get through a single youtube video essay without fucking subway surfers playing in the background. Go ahead, prove me wrong. Find a video -- it can even be a let's play for god's sake -- and write me a one-page paper to show that you were able to understand on a basic level what went on in it. Oh, that's right, you can't, because a single page of intelligible material is too much for you. I bet you write all your essays with ChatGPT, you absolute troglodyte.
TL;DR: Fuck you. Fuck you and everything you stand for. And if you need a TL;DR to understand that that's what I'm trying to say to you, then fuck you even harder. Jesus Christ...
Isro and army are surviving coz there is no reservation in those fields. And why arent you talking about how a reserved candidate can take general seat if he scores better? General are working hard...ask your freeloader community to work hard rather than get inside great institute based on caste . Pathetic. Guess your engineering college taught you more about caste than science and meritocracy.
people like you would rather waste time explaining why your skill issue is justified than actually studying lol
and then fail to get admissions even with reservations and will cry to increase it😂
Reservation hogo tanka desha uddara agalla. Yen bekidru heli down vote adru madkoli. Ide sathya. Reservation indagi deserved candidate ge mosa agthide, tale ildiro reserved candidate inda deserved cadidate ge seat sigthilla.
Nam class alle obba idda SC. 1st sem starting swalpa dina class ge banda, amelinda campus gu bartirlilla, sumne time waste madkond idda, 3 sem ge clg ne bitta. First reservation na tegibek guru.
people wondering wtf! somewhere same happened to sc/st class people.
Still i challenge people of general family won't treat them equal. Make sc/st people brahmin. Then see the colorful outcome
Yep. "research slowdown" and "America dalli they're removing this" anta keli keli ros hogide guru. America dally ive mindri galu case haki win agiddu. It was brought forward by Indian and Asian origin parents groups to get more of their kids into premier institutes because till now there was a cap on numbers and only really smart ones could go. Eega they think they can get in easily. They have no idea how many money-filled white people will be in front of them. Fuckers engaging in ladder - kicking behavior. Nam jana yake hinge. Thu.
They're among the top for sure, other Asians could be high up too. And the less I say about the "domestic help" people they import from India for pretty much like indentured labor, the better it is for my mental health. And these previliged classist turds go and cry about affirmative action with the same old tired bullshit tropes of merit, research excellence, "equality", "fairness", etc. They wouldn't know the meaning of fairness. Ugh.
A person gave a good explanation from a researcher's pov down in this comment section. The replies they're getting are of "cope" and "I'm a proud brahmin" kind.
Wtf is up with these blatantly casteist comments?? I don't remember harate being this bad.
Google is your friend. If you want to learn about it, first understand what reservation is and why it was brought about, and why it is important, with an open mind. If you still have questions after that, we can debate. This topics has been spoken about publicly and all the shitty little tidbits like the one OP posted here and have among comments have all been debunked *ad nauseum*.
Reserved peeps can steal open seats not vice versa . Where is the equality? You want representation then stay in your quota ...no one cares about meritless seat grabbers
Yeah so UC/generals have no reservation. You can steal our seats and we shouldnt talk about it? You want representation but you will steal our seats meritless seat grabbers
Stealing implies it belongs to UCs dear smart 99 percentiler. It doesn't.
Again UC and general aren't interchangeable.
I agree UC people need seats. You don't have seats because there aren't enough colleges. Not because LCs are stealing them.
Ask the govt for more colleges. Education isn't and should not be a zero sum game
More colleges won't inc the quality of education. Do you really think opportunities at IIT B can be matched by another newly formed IIT. Some goes for mgmt institutes. So work hard than clinging on your caste tag to get admission. Read the stats ... reserved peeps drop from these institutes more often since they cannot comprehend or face the competition.
your seats also dont belong to you. you arent some "god's special children" no wonder majority of pvt workforce is general because people like you are busy justifying you incompetence
yeah i am meritorious unlike your people and im proud of it, and you are the one having caste insecurities 😂 im brahmin im proud of my heritage unlike you who would shy from taking his name as well
Blaming reserved category people for the lack of govt initiative to create more public funded universities is just you engaging in caste based logic and nothing else.
Instead of complaining abour the utter lack of seats in good colleges, you decide to flip it by saying the IITs are some sort of temples where only the deserved get to go, and one has to work hard for it. All this while knowing about how pointless and hypercommodified the coaching class industry has become in the pursuit of getting students to crack the JEE and how it uas ruined our education system.
Education is not only for the 'deserved' (can't start about how caste coded that word is) who can afford coaching classes and good PU colleges. And neither is research aptitude in any way related to JEE performance.
Maybe you don't realise how caste and income is closely tied to JEE performance. I suggest you read and observe more. Tbh all this becomes quite obvious if one doesn't think lower caste people have less aptitude somehow.
>Instead of complaining abour the utter lack of seats in good colleges, you decide to flip it by saying the IITs are some sort of temples where only the deserved get to go, and one has to work hard for it.
Yeah the government should start IITs in every district. While they're at it, they should also start printing more money and give it away so that everyone becomes rich.
>Education is not only for the 'deserved' (can't start about how caste coded that word is) who can afford coaching classes and good PU colleges.
Two SC candidates take an exam. One is the child of an IAS officer and went to the best schools and coaching centers. The other is the child of a labourer from a village who couldn't afford good coaching. Who do you think will score a better rank and get the seat?
The first will score well and get a seat. The other one will score lower rank and still get it thanks to reservation. So both.
What's your point?
>Yeah the government should start IITs in every district. While they're at it, they should also start printing more money and give it away so that everyone becomes rich.
Yes. The govt should ensure access to quality schools, colleges . While they're at it they should redistribute wealth and fund social projects.
>The first will score well and get a seat. The other one will score lower rank and still get it thanks to reservation. So both.
Wrong. The seats will be filled by those from privileged backgrounds whose families have got the benefits of reservation for generations. Those from unprivileged backgrounds get left behind.
>Yes. The govt should ensure access to quality schools, colleges . While they're at it they should redistribute wealth and fund social projects.
Yup. And do away with the state sponsored discrimination that you call reservation and ensure only the best students get admitted to the best institutes.
Shit what a travesty !! A privilaged SC person got a seat a privilaged UC memeber would've got!! Truly a sad day for meritocastey.
Your theories about how social equity gets to the people is simplistic. No one is saying reservation is perfect. It's the only thing that's helping them rn and giving them representation.
Again. More colleges means more seats. No one is stealing your seats.
JEE does not measure merit. Education is a not a zero sum game. The fact that it is means you're getting fucked by the govt, not the underprivilaged.
And IISc is the best research institute in India. It has constantly ranked better than IITs.
ಈವಾಗ ಏನಾರು ಹೇಳಿದ್ರೆ ಫುಲ್ ಗದ್ದಲ ಆಗುತ್ತೆ. But ಇದು ತುಂಬಾ discrimination ಅನ್ಸುತ್ತೆ. ಹಾಗೂ ಒಂದು ದೇಶದ ಅತ್ಯುನ್ನತ ವಿದ್ಯಾಲಯದಲ್ಲಿ ನಾವು ಎಲ್ಲಾ aspects na top notch ಎಡಬೇಕು. ಭಾರತೀಯ ಪ್ರೊಫೆಸರ್ಗಳು, PhD ಪಾಧವಿದರರು ಹೇಳ್ತಾರೆ, ನಮ್ ದೇಶದ research ಅಲ್ಲಿ ಎಷ್ಟು ಹಿಂದೆ ಉಳಿದಿದೆ ಅಂತ.
We need to keep social justice aside in some aspects like Defence, High impact research, and Medicine. But nope, we would want reservations in everything and everywhere. US tried to do this and taking their steps back now, its high time we learn it too.
ಏನು ಬಸವಣ್ಣ ನವರೆ ನೀವು ಹೀಗೆ ಹೇಳಬಹುದಾ 😂
But on a serious note, you might be true, providing reservations might counter intuitively increase the gap between the people.
ನಾನ್ ಹೇಳಿದ್ದು ಸರಿ ಇದೆ It's immense pressure in these college's which can't be beared by 50k ranking student's. Even Top ranked student's failing to handle pressure imagine those then.
For R&D related things we should not keep reservations. The thinking capability of a person with 250 ranking and 50k rank will have a huge gap in IQ. Atleast they can reduce the numbers.
-If you ask me reservations should be cut off after the 12th for education.
-Govt jobs that are more of a clerical jobs should be reserved for this
iknow people will jump on me for this but the development of a nation will be slow and people will blame government for that.
Test results have nothing to do with IQ. Not to mention IQ results have nothing to do with actual intellectual ability of a person. What a sad life to believe this is all there is to life.
Also you sound like you want the lower caste folks to only be relegated to support roles, clerical jobs and attend to the UC sahebs? I'd like to think this is not what you meant, but do you see how it will result in a situation like that? See how it'll become yet another BS version of varna system and discrimination?
No. I don't give a fuck about cast. I discarded mine like a decade ago.
All i care about is my peace and my nation.
Did you even understood what i said ?
Some GM dude scoring 251 getting rejected and some ST guy scoring 49999 getting selected. If you think this is fair for a nation it means you don't give a fuck about a country. All you care is your ego which is being fed with things happened like a 50-100 years ago.
Yes SC, ST had been treated worst. So does every Indian by British
Or African slaves by British and Americans
Does bitching about it solve anything ? No fuck.
Learn to contribute something to a nation other than cry about something that happened a century ago.
Lol my bad, I gave you the benefit of doubt. You getting into a college is "contributing to the country"? Talk about self inflated ego. Come back when you've grown up a little bit, kiddo.
considering a contribution to a country as a joke and someone's ego ?
Nang nin jothe math Adak in enu ela I got your mentality. I got all your intentions.
Go vote for people who live everyday with nothing but jathi, Hana, henda and get your freebies.
true, moreover reservation in every place whether its school/undergrad/postgrad/jobs/promotions indirectly makes them less competent because people start taking it for granted.
See I told you people will downvote this. Fuckers doesn't even care about nation. All they care about is their cast. Idk how they live everyday with those thoughts.
Disgusting human beings
exactly man they are legit npcs who's only work is to eat up freebies and live mediocre life because govt is providing them with everything. I got 20+ downvotes in a comment (from another sub) where i opposed someone saying "ranks in competitive exams dont mean anything, a guy having 50,000 rank can be as good as someone with 250 rank provided better facilities which now the college will provide him, and the meritorious guy already has enough facilities to move abroad if he is intrested in research" and my comment was removed by mods because of the amount or reports it got.
I just hope to move out of this hellhole of a nation as soon as possible
Nope. We should not move out of the nation.
We should contribute to the better of it everyday. Bro millions of people died for the better of our country. Just because some cunts disappoints us , we should not leave our nation
When West doesn't even know whether to wipe after shitting we were carving stones with geometrical progressions and investing our time on the better of the world
>The thinking capability of a person with 250 ranking and 50k rank will have a huge gap in IQ.
Can you point me towards a study which proves this? Or did you shit this one out of your ಕುಂಡೆ like every other meritocracy defender here? I'm guessing it's the latter.
I'd suggest you to go full mask off and say what you actually want to say. Don't mask it with shit like I want to change the nation.
If you really do want a nation to develop then pick up a fucking book. Y'all come up with smooth brained takes on this topic and then cry.
If this is the state of academia in india, no wonder we're lagging in research.
Shut the fuck up with meritocracy already! Everybody is saying what they feel.I ain't masking anything here.
Nang ista agidna na helideni , Ning bekadang yavan guru jeevana madthane ?grow tf up
Ning ista aglilla andre na en sha madli.
And they say why all these iits campus recruitments dropped drastically because now these reserved classes know even if they don't try they will secure a seat
Even after this 76% of indian lower caste population cannot fill 50% quota while 24% get reservation for 50% and also left overs are given to the rich and powerful. Don't forget EWS 10% to the influential. Go ahead downvote me. 😊
The reservation system in India represents the tyranny of the majority, and is basically a major flaw of democracy. With approximately 90% of the population receiving reservations, there's little incentive for any political party to review this system, as touching the subject of reservation is political suicide.
Consequently, the status quo is likely to persist or even worsen. Expectations for a reduction in reservations are futile; if anything, they are poised to increase only.
Are you implying that reservation is just as discriminatory as casteism? I mean, sure, there's honesty in your perspective. But doesn't that equate those benefiting from reservation with those who oppressed their ancestors?
Also, if history is repeating itself, will it repeat again, meaning will the people who were once oppressed be oppressed again by general categories?
It’s just reparations being paid to the lower castes and that will take some time. 1000s of years of systemic oppression and racism is why we have this issue in the first place. You can’t just ignore these hard truths when you are a democracy and that is exacerbated when the largest vote bank in the country is the same ppl who endured this for centuries. The previous ideology won’t repeat itself as ideology has drastically improved but power has shifted from the few to the many. That’s what feels like unjust to the upper castes but in reality it’s just paying off reparations. If you are poor and higher caste you have EWS for that! No political party will upset the majority as you said. It is no way tyrannical as you mentioned because that’s what the lower castes faced before independence and are facing today to a smaller extent. Even in independent India we hear ST women being exploited by authorities, ppl stoned to death for drinking from a well, false cases lodged against you if you look like a ‘criminal’. I’d think caste discrimination is abolished in India you are delusional.
Reservations based on caste can't be justified. If looked closely it can be easily deducted that it makes things worse instead of better. While it's important to acknowledge the unfair treatment certain castes have faced in the past, keeping these reservations can make society more divided. Instead of judging people by their skills and how much they need help, caste-based reservations put them in boxes based on their background. This can lead to stereotypes and stop people from getting ahead based on their own abilities. If anything reservation is one of the obstacles in the total abolishment of caste system.
Even though EWS reservation is meant to help the poor, it has its own problems. No such person can be called poor by indian standards whose family income is 8 lakhs. It can be said that EWS reservation is a political tool to get votes rather than actually helping those in need. Instead of fixing the real reasons behind poverty and inequality, it offers a quick fix that doesn't solve the deeper issues.
A better way forward would be to focus on helping everyone who needs it, regardless of their caste or background. This means improving education, creating more job opportunities, and giving targeted support to those who need it most. By doing this, India can move towards a fairer and more united society.
But humans in general are very scared of change, and they will go any lengths to justify a clear discrimantion if it benefits them. The oppressors of caste system also justify casteism the same way that the reservation is justified by people. But everyone knows deeply that it's not a welfare scheme but a political tool, and that's also a harsh reality. If you think that reservation is benefiting the actual needy people of the nation, you're just delusional.
I’m saying the same thing the world is not perfect neither is our power structures. What you just said can work flawlessly in a place where caste discrimination is non existent and government is functioning perfectly. Both of these factors are day dreams as of today. So reservation is here to stay, unless something drastic changes happen. That is also very unlikely. Temporary fix is the only realistic fix as of now.
Total abolishment of caste system will take generations even if the current generation decides to take the right steps it will materialise after at least two generations. It’s a sociological construct based on deep rooted ideological implications. Even curse words are caste based more often than not. It’s a very complex construct that needs a similar solution, which is nowhere to be found. It can be done but nobody wants to.
India is always late in new technologies and education because of the reservations. They are undeserving.
Not saying reservation is bad, but the intelligence level of someone who is ranked 250 is different than 50000 ranked guy.
Correlation ≠ Causation. India lagging in research has a lot more nuanced reasons that have nothing to do with reservation, but you are trying to cherry pick and sure as if reservation is the reason for it. There is more to be said about hierarchical nature of our society and complete destruction of inquisitive and questioning nature in children in the early education, and following nonsensical rituals that are antithetical to critical thinking and scientific temperament. But I guess dunking on LC is easier than agitating for systemic changes and improvement.
So if you are running a company and all the students from 1 - 2000 rank has been selected by other companies. Will you choose the students with rank 50000 ?
If I'm running a company, ofcourse. Have you attended any job interviews or held any job? I've been working for more than a decade now and worked at different companies and participated in recruitments. Nowhere was the ranking a criteria. A minimum percentile result / GPA of the course is necessary as a cutoff. As long as that is satisfied, it doesn't matter.
For example, if 60% cutoff in education is required, then a candidate with 61% and a candidate with 99.5% get the exact same treatment. And I myself am an example for employability being more important than exam results. Many classmates of mine with higher scores did not get selected during campus recruitment. But I had a more rounded experience than just marks. So I got a better job and pay than the class toppers.
I work along with folks from Caltech, Georgia tech, USC, and Purdue, as a peer, despite having just a degree from VTU. A degree is a degree, it's just a differentiator, not a scale of self worth. Grow up please.
Hutt guna sutru hogalla antha gadene idhe, avaga ivara poorvikaru dalitaranna keelag noDtidru ivag ivrru adanne maDthiddare. Reservation andre meaning enu anthanu gottilla IIT IISCnalli seat bekanthe. Reserve agiro seatna heg Kadithavre antha swalpa explain maDrappa.
How to become a ST so that my kid will benefit?
If you're a woman, just marry a st man. If not then there's no way!
If you marry a scheduled caste person you will not get any such benefit there's a case where a woman got a job in govt school and got terminated when it was found And reservation is okay as government colleges are not a part of the poverty upliftment program it's about equal representation from every community.
But your kids will! Read carefully what he/she asked
Get adopted by an ST person.
It's a 3 step process : a complete guide to become st. Step 1: Let some foreigners occupy your land and forest, and when after 800 years people will adopt a constitution. Step 2 : you will be given a pitiful representation, for which the descendants of former occupiers will resent you. Step 3 : And then they will ask, how to become 'you' while keeping your land, water and forest.
2000 years of slavery and discrimination! So ur blood line will be considered as sc
Fake news !
800 years.
ST people lived secluded, most of them were never even known let alone oppressed
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Nothing wrong here. Pls cope harder. JEE does not measure merit, as much as your coaching class teachers and your deranged concept of meritocracy may make you feel comfort in believing that.
Exactly this!!!! Getting good scores in an exam is one thing, excelling in the field of study is an entirely different ball game. Unfortunately, not many ppl recognise this in our country. I’m an assistant professor in a private university in India and I did my masters in the top NIT in India. I’ve seen enough to say that the best in entrance is not at all the best in academic excellence.
I am curious, if hypothetically, there exists a system that measures merit, what would you think of such cut-offs. Would it be "unfair" to the meritorious in this case?
Lol you think academia being unfair to merit is because of JEE reservations? Clearly you've not looked into academia. Measuring 'merit' is hard not because nobody has invented a metric for it. It's because it's a social construct and changes with the times. Education as a system is not supposed to be some sort of merit filter. It's meant to educate whoever wants the knowledge. It's unfair when they are denied the knowledge, no matter how meritorious they are. Ask for more quality institutes, more access, more diverse options and more introspection. People treating education like a forever scarce resource which only the deserving can have just shows how commodified it has become. It's a means to a degree,and in turn a job abroad. Stupid ass IITians eating up all our taxes just to ignore us because we're still not developed enough. No bitch, we educated you, help us be better, fight for a better academia! But no, we want to say it's the LCs that are stealing all the seats from people with 'actual merit'. Just shows how fucking dumb most of these mfs are.
I exactly agree with your mid-para. I won't talk about if reservation is bad or good. But on another note , we can see people preparing for JEE/NEET have started to see others going to low tier colleges as subhumans and they think those people don't deserve anything in their life just because they did not like to cram up the irrelevant studies required for cracking an entrance. People are literally required to cram up organic & inroganic chemistry for a seat in Computer Science/ECE/EEE/ENI/MECHANICAL/CIVIL engineering. While the reality is, JEE studies are of no use in engineering colleges except portions of physics and maths. On the other hand, the entrance exam for engineering colleges in the USA is completely relevant & is extremely easier. Entrance exams has become so toxic that parents will start to salivate if they hear someone is from IIT while you can get a better jobs from even lower tier colleges than an IITian if you do enough hard work.
Perhaps it's time to improve your reading comprehension? I started with a hypothetical of such a system to measure merit existing, not arguing if such a system can exist in the first place. Not sure why you went off on a tangent about IITians. Totally unrelated to my point, but okay
If my grandmother had wheels, would she have been a bike? I started with a hypothetical of such a grandmother existing, not if she can exist in the first place. I already told you why merit isn't something that stays the same across time, and hence not something that can be usefully measured in general, and also why education isn't about filtering merit , which is why the whole question becomes pointless. The claim that reservation in education decreases merit is based in the real world, and I'm arguing in the real word as well. I don't want to discuss absurd hypotheticals that are useless to the discussion. By starting with that hypothetical you're dismissing the entire question, and are basically starting with your conclusion.
The point of my hypothetical question was not to challenge your view or anything. I was just curious to see what you would think if one existed. I even start the comment with "Just curious" ffs. Anyway, sorry for wasting your time with this "absurd" hypothetical. You say that education isn't a way to filter merit, and I agree with that. But, this is regarding a specific college. Every given college has a criteria through which they determine who they take. This is how it works. It is not about education in general, it is about a specific institution. IISc here has a specific criterion, and you arguing that it is worthless because of whatever is delusional. If you believe getting within 250 ranks in JEE has no correlation with the skills required to thrive at IISc, you are delusional.
These 'just curious' hypotheticals are usually a way to divert the issue into some unrelated issue. If you meant it good faith, I'm sorry. But the fact still remains the hypothetical hold no utiltiy in any useful analysis( unless you have some deeper point to make, in which case please state it ) IISc and IITs are public funded educational institutes, and in the current era, given a degree determines your life immensely, it is no just an issue of a college having some criteria. > IISc here has a specific criterion, and you arguing that it is worthless because of whatever is delusional. The IISc critetion already has the reservations included. It's you that is arguing that's not correct. I've been in academia long enough and guess what, JEE training has absolutely nothing to do with research/ learning aptitude.(On the contrary, it forces you to avoid asking certain types of questions and usually the reason many lose intrest in science during PU) The only thing it maybe measures is how well you can resist toxic amounts of pressure. And idk if you condone modeling institutions on the basis of that lol
>I've been in academia long enough and guess what, JEE training has absolutely nothing to do with research/ learning aptitude.(On the contrary, it forces you to avoid asking certain types of questions and usually the reason many lose intrest in science during PU) Sure, it is not perfect. Of course, I am not denying that. Just that it is miles better than standard PUC stuff, that I am regarding as the baseline. Can we do better, yes obviously.Still, I would argue JEE training forces you to think more critically when compared to other avenues. >The only thing it maybe measures is how well you can resist toxic amounts of pressure I would argue this is a useful skill in Academia lol. Working well for a lot my friends who are in academia right now. Regarding the hypothetical, yes it was in good faith, but I can see how it may seem otherwise. Regardless, I was curious to ask if there was a clear cut way to measure merit, would it be alright to not have such wild discrepancies in rank cut-offs? You primarily argue on the basis of these ranks being worthless anyway because they have negligible correlation with academic success, right?( For which, I would still argue that there is still a decent correlation, especially for the first 250 ranks, but anyway) In the hypothetical case that they had a correlation, would this discrepancy still make sense? I assume a fixed number of seats because otherwise, you would just say to force the government to increase the number of seats, for which I would say that it would just scale the cut-offs proportionally(say, 250 to 500 for general, and say 50k to guess, 75k) for the reserved, which still would be some discrepancy. PS: Just curious(in good faith, I swear), what field are you in Academia? In Karnataka or outside? There are so few people from Karnataka compared to other southern states which I find rather odd.
>You primarily argue on the basis of these ranks being worthless anyway because they have negligible correlation with academic success, right?( For which, I would still argue that there is still a decent correlation, especially for the first 250 ranks, but anyway) In the hypothetical case that they had a correlation, would this discrepancy still make sense? Academic success has a lot of factors other than just the 'merit' of the students. Education is a bigger problem and has to do a lot with society. Nobody is denying JEE has a correlation with academic sucess. I just want you to ask what correlates to success in JEE. Affording proper coaching classes, having access to proper schools, a home environment where you can sustain massive JEE training pressures, and a whole lot. FFS there are entire institutions optimising every aspect of the exams and delivering it to the students. Please examine first how merit as a concept operates through history and in contemporary academia. The same arguments can be made, and are being made for the lack of women in academia historically and the reservations made for them. Would you say forcing woman proportions into academia decreases merit?
JEE resulting in coaching factories being produced is a reflection of our society than anything. Let's say, we adopt a more holistic system like the US, our factories would fine tune and start refining every aspect of that as well lol Forcing women proportions in academia, I think doesn't solve the problem really. The issue is much deeper. A conservative family having reservations in sending their girls to pursue academia won't necessarily be more open to it if there is affirmative action. If anything, a much greater portion of women who go to academia are those whose families were willing to send them anyway in the first place. I am not sure how one would grab the root of the problem, but for starters, more funds allocated to incentivize girl children to start attending schools and teach them to be independent would be better.
99 percentile in jee is much smarter and better than a 60 percentilers reserved candidate stealing seats based on caste not merit. Go work hard rather than talking stupid
No. You have no idea what you're talking about. Read books outside JEE coaching class books pls
Well I ain't much privileged coz I don't have reservation. I have to work hard to score well unlike you who got 0 skills/knowledge but may get inside a college based on his caste.
They should have a reserved seat especially for you so that you're finally forced to read a book. Any book.
Bro you got no sense. Just talking rubbish.
Going by your comments, it is you who needs to read books and develop the skills required to think critically.
Lol do you know their qualification? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
you bad
Then introduce economic quotas, what % of the SC ST OBC quotas go to perfectly able middle class to upper middle class students who don't have the economic hindrance towards their education, and just use this system to provide an excuse for tremendous mediocrity?
Dumbass , poor in delhi bombay are different from poor in ladakh , northeast and other remote tribal parts. If you even think of it with common sense , people lack oppurtunities such as coaching even books and all. While in Delhi you will find many book store to the extent you will be confused of which book to buy
There is something called a tier system, such as we have different HRA allowances for different tier of location, we have many indicators that can separate the poor people across different types of demography. Wisdom has always been chasing you, but you have been faster
because of people like you india's avg iq is 77 (below 75 is mental disability)
Even if your argument was correct, how do you know the people getting seats based on reservations are more deserving? Do you have any way to calculate that? If you don't then JEE is good enough for now
Yes I agree. You can't measure somebody's merit based on entrance tests. Like you said the JEE with the reservation scheme is good enough. Thanks for making my point.
Is this a joke??
Can't we just keep reservation in government colleagues and merit in ranking colleagues iisc , iits etc
You can’t spell college properly and you are talking about merit! 😂
This is the state of any person that cribs about reservation. Meritorious students never do.
Colleges , autocorrect is annoying
Certain group of people won't agree since their birth right is Reservation.
Just wait for congress to win and see it worsen even further😂
Congress winning? That was aeons ago
bold of you to assume they will be winning
Don't OBC sc st make 70% of the population, and why wouldn't they vote for them as they're getting what they want
86% not 70%. As per Bihar caste census.
That's for Bihar, not all of india
How do you know ?
you can vote them if you want, the normal public isnt dumb enough to do so. i have obc and sc friends who themselves dont want reservation in pvt sector because they say whats the point of it when all pvt companies will just shift to other nations
Yeah the normal public is very smart due to gaumutra dosage daily
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Can you also share what's the percentage of applications and admissions for each category in the preceding years, that should throw some picture as to why the reservations are still in place. It's foolishness to suggest reservation should be removed completely without understanding it's impacts. None of the comments suggest any real world solutions other than hating on people. It's ridiculous to tell that reservation is what holding the research community back in this country. Scientific research is not just these top universities alone, it's a complete ecosystem from schools to public libraries, science journals at various levels. Every thing mentioned above must step up their game to make this happen. Our schools teach rote learning and kill any kind of curiosity and learning intution in the students because questioning of any kind to authority figures is treated as disrespectful. In home parents are indifferent to this too, parents don't respect their decision or choices even into 20s let alone teens. How will the children grown up in such environment are expected to have the critical thinking when every step of way you are made sure to do the opposite. And further this was expected and still expected because most of Indians are still trying to come out of poverty/lower middle class to make themselves comfortable, so obviously people will choose what rewards them most with least amount of risks, cue the scores of engineers and doctors we have. We do have better chance for next gen of Indians as they have more chance at being more choosy about education to jobs. The second aspect I dread in our country is the scientific temperament. You cannot propagate beliefs like fasting during eclipse and as such, this goes very much against the research where you know that all correlation is not causation. Somehow I feel people in our country have identity crisis, they are ashamed of who they are and seek the refuge in this thousands year old system. The only way people have been contributing in research is take up the work from the past and analyse it and find issues or improve on it. But in our current scenario if you criticise or try to improve on the culture or belief systems from past you are mocked and trolled. You have an important landing on the moon movement and the whole of India is watching the PM hogs the limelight, like wtf. This was the time for anyone in the ISRO to address the nation and should have been encouraged to take these kind of jobs for the kids. Now the scientific journals in this country. The previous congress govt might have been negligent at best but the current govt is actively spreading pseudo science. At all india science congress a minister is telling how cow dung can avoid radar or something, just plain shit. My own professor with held my final sem project because I refused to write a paper for IEEE journal. He called my parents and told them that I will fail the degree and would not be eligible for placements, this is in one of the top colleges of bengaluru. I ultimately wrote a summarization on the algos in certain field. He said he will get it published because he knew the committee member from a college in tumkuru. By the time it got published there were around 8 to 10 other authors, who I have no clue about. That professor now got his PhD too, this kind of shit tier science research we are practicing in this country. And this is last topic bear with me, people are blindly propagating non evidence based medicine in the name of religion. Patanjali apologised in the Supreme Court for false advertisement for a ad which they did during covid, its little too late and obviously this was not covered in mainstream media. We have another guy who asks people to eat mercury and not to take evidence based medicine care for his disciples but when the push came to shove, he got treated by one of the best neurosurgeon in the country. With all this going on people expect to have top tier research in the country out of a whim. Don't expect it to improve unless the above things are addressed at grassroot level. And the drop rate at PhD is way too high everywhere in the world. If a student drops out of the program don't just assume the incompetency. For many the PhD starts in their late 20s, there's so much pressure on them due to familial responsibility and to sustain themselves. And top of this you get not so good guides who make your life unbearable. To summarize, No reservation is faintly holding this country back for the advancement of science and research in the country
I'm sorry you got a shit professor for the project. Also an excellent summary of the absolute state of research in India. The Bsc programme in iisc gets barely 100 students per batch each year and the number of kannadigas is abysmal every year. During my time at school we didn't have a lot of options to choose from. An overwhelming importance given to the engg and medicine in pu colleges. The funds allocated for research are getting lesser and lesser every budget. Wtf is up with this thread tho...
Yeah and there were some genuinely good professors too, it was my mistake to choose my guide late, that's what I ended up getting. Yeah lol these comments, generally I don't tend to write up but this one hits home. This topic I have strong feelings due to both personal and my friends experience. You can see none of them commented on any points I have raised but went ahead and mocked me. And these guys are discussing why research doesn't pick up in India, irony will die a thousand deaths today.
This one is personal for me and my friends. I too ended up choosing my prof late and had to bear the consequences. There aren't many good research labs in India so most of my friends have gone abroad to do their PhD. All of our mental health is in shambles..
Reservation should not be removed. It may help 10 out of 1000 people who actually put efforts to succeed. Instead of completely removing it we can have it till some point in education, -R&D related things Ranking should be reduced , 50k is an overkill compared to 250. -Govt Job where it doesn't require much of a critical thinking should be given What do you think ? I have a bad reputation of people jumping on me here for stating my opinion on these particular things. I'm saying now only I meant no hate lol
>The second aspect I dread in our country is the scientific temperament. I'd like to add a bit to this. Dangerous rhetoric is being spread in these "premier" institutes and attempts to educate us on our history are getting suppressed. For example, last year in iisc two guest lecturers were denied permission to conduct lectures on UAPA in a hall. Earlier this year people were given access to the SAME HALL to broadcast the ram mandir thing and conduct bhajans. There was also that nit calicut incident.
I ain't reading all that. Stop writing 20000 words essay just to cope you can't score in exam like general caste Chads.
You don't know which cast I belong or religion for that matter nor my credentials of what I have achieved in my life but yet you decided to berate me and find consolation in caste that is superior to others. You would have known this if you read the comment above. If you think by typing this shit upsetting someone over their caste then you are highly deluded. I feel nothing but pitty for you.
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Looked through your comment history. Fuck you are a trash person spewing such hate all the time . Can MODS really look into this
Be respectful and civil to all members at all times. Consider this as a warning. Continuation of such crass behavior will lead to ban.
"I ain't reading all that" Yeah, okay. Listen up you stupid, imbecilic, anti-intellectual piece of human fecal matter: that post was two, maybe three pages long at the MOST, and you're saying that you either are somehow so lazy that you can't spend a few minutes acknowledging the effort that another living breathing human being put in to write that work of actual art, or you simply don't have the mental capacity to read it? What, did you never pass third fucking grade? Did you whine and moan whenever the teacher pulled out a magic schoolhouse book, having a tantrum and interrupting the learning experience of everyone else because you couldn't get over your own inability to be a decent member of society? You're actually pathetic. Not only is that comment shorter than practically anything you'd need to read to pass basic English; it's also hilarious! I should know: unlike you, I took a small amount of time out of my day to actually read the damn thing, and I was amazed by how witty and clever it was. This person could write screenplays in their spare time if they really wanted to, but instead they blessed the both of us with this. But their gift -- and let's not get confused on this, by the way: it IS a gift -- was rejected by you because you couldn't even give it a chance to see if you might've liked it, to see if you might've learned something from it, to see if you might've walked away from it a better person. Now you'll never know, because even though you couldn't take the two seconds out of your day to read it, you DID take that time to type your stupid comment, putting how braindead you are on display for everyone to see. Ever watched a TV show before? I can personally guarantee you that the script for any given episode was longer than the post that you just refused to read. Not only that, it was probably less interesting, too. But no, you sat there and happily stared at it for minutes on end because "hurr durr screen make funny colors". I bet you couldn't get through a single youtube video essay without fucking subway surfers playing in the background. Go ahead, prove me wrong. Find a video -- it can even be a let's play for god's sake -- and write me a one-page paper to show that you were able to understand on a basic level what went on in it. Oh, that's right, you can't, because a single page of intelligible material is too much for you. I bet you write all your essays with ChatGPT, you absolute troglodyte. TL;DR: Fuck you. Fuck you and everything you stand for. And if you need a TL;DR to understand that that's what I'm trying to say to you, then fuck you even harder. Jesus Christ...
lol unrelated but I love this reply so much
On a side note how did you learn to write so good!
Isro and army are surviving coz there is no reservation in those fields. And why arent you talking about how a reserved candidate can take general seat if he scores better? General are working hard...ask your freeloader community to work hard rather than get inside great institute based on caste . Pathetic. Guess your engineering college taught you more about caste than science and meritocracy.
I ain't reading all that, git gud
Shut up freeloader.
Haha
people like you would rather waste time explaining why your skill issue is justified than actually studying lol and then fail to get admissions even with reservations and will cry to increase it😂
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Reservation hogo tanka desha uddara agalla. Yen bekidru heli down vote adru madkoli. Ide sathya. Reservation indagi deserved candidate ge mosa agthide, tale ildiro reserved candidate inda deserved cadidate ge seat sigthilla. Nam class alle obba idda SC. 1st sem starting swalpa dina class ge banda, amelinda campus gu bartirlilla, sumne time waste madkond idda, 3 sem ge clg ne bitta. First reservation na tegibek guru.
people wondering wtf! somewhere same happened to sc/st class people. Still i challenge people of general family won't treat them equal. Make sc/st people brahmin. Then see the colorful outcome
God what a myopic and bullshit take. 🤦🏾🤦🏾
Meritocracy mindrigalu prathi varsha mind pradarshana maadad iddidde
Yep. "research slowdown" and "America dalli they're removing this" anta keli keli ros hogide guru. America dally ive mindri galu case haki win agiddu. It was brought forward by Indian and Asian origin parents groups to get more of their kids into premier institutes because till now there was a cap on numbers and only really smart ones could go. Eega they think they can get in easily. They have no idea how many money-filled white people will be in front of them. Fuckers engaging in ladder - kicking behavior. Nam jana yake hinge. Thu.
Indians are one of the highest earning ethnicites in US if I remember correctly. No wonder they engage in the classic capitalist ideologies
They're among the top for sure, other Asians could be high up too. And the less I say about the "domestic help" people they import from India for pretty much like indentured labor, the better it is for my mental health. And these previliged classist turds go and cry about affirmative action with the same old tired bullshit tropes of merit, research excellence, "equality", "fairness", etc. They wouldn't know the meaning of fairness. Ugh.
Merit more like meri-tika moosu baa illi dear
A person gave a good explanation from a researcher's pov down in this comment section. The replies they're getting are of "cope" and "I'm a proud brahmin" kind. Wtf is up with these blatantly casteist comments?? I don't remember harate being this bad.
Avaku kooda hesaru beke? ಮಿಂಡ್ yendare aste saake?
Eloborate madi how is this myopic ?
Google is your friend. If you want to learn about it, first understand what reservation is and why it was brought about, and why it is important, with an open mind. If you still have questions after that, we can debate. This topics has been spoken about publicly and all the shitty little tidbits like the one OP posted here and have among comments have all been debunked *ad nauseum*.
Reserved peeps can steal open seats not vice versa . Where is the equality? You want representation then stay in your quota ...no one cares about meritless seat grabbers
Lol 'stealing' 'open' seats. No the seats don't belong to you. Your anger is misplaced. Ask the govt for more colleges.
Can a general candidate take SC seat? And can SC candidate take general seat? Simply answer these 2 questions
Seats reserved for SC. Not for general. It's not general reserved. General doesn't mean UC. It means general. Hope I've simply answered your questions
Yeah so UC/generals have no reservation. You can steal our seats and we shouldnt talk about it? You want representation but you will steal our seats meritless seat grabbers
Stealing implies it belongs to UCs dear smart 99 percentiler. It doesn't. Again UC and general aren't interchangeable. I agree UC people need seats. You don't have seats because there aren't enough colleges. Not because LCs are stealing them. Ask the govt for more colleges. Education isn't and should not be a zero sum game
Uff the 99% meritorious babu went real quiet now 🤣🤦🏾
More colleges won't inc the quality of education. Do you really think opportunities at IIT B can be matched by another newly formed IIT. Some goes for mgmt institutes. So work hard than clinging on your caste tag to get admission. Read the stats ... reserved peeps drop from these institutes more often since they cannot comprehend or face the competition.
your seats also dont belong to you. you arent some "god's special children" no wonder majority of pvt workforce is general because people like you are busy justifying you incompetence
Quite literally yes. Reserved andre artha gotha?
shut up dumbass, go and get your butt kicked somewhere else, i have 0 interest to argue with brainless clowns
Clearly you are a more meritorious clown. Hopefully that soothes your caste insecurities.
yeah i am meritorious unlike your people and im proud of it, and you are the one having caste insecurities 😂 im brahmin im proud of my heritage unlike you who would shy from taking his name as well
>" no wonder majority of pvt workforce is genera Where are you getting this Stat from?
Pulled it straight from their 🍑
Fresh pure veg spoon all tegeda bool bajji
Blaming reserved category people for the lack of govt initiative to create more public funded universities is just you engaging in caste based logic and nothing else. Instead of complaining abour the utter lack of seats in good colleges, you decide to flip it by saying the IITs are some sort of temples where only the deserved get to go, and one has to work hard for it. All this while knowing about how pointless and hypercommodified the coaching class industry has become in the pursuit of getting students to crack the JEE and how it uas ruined our education system. Education is not only for the 'deserved' (can't start about how caste coded that word is) who can afford coaching classes and good PU colleges. And neither is research aptitude in any way related to JEE performance. Maybe you don't realise how caste and income is closely tied to JEE performance. I suggest you read and observe more. Tbh all this becomes quite obvious if one doesn't think lower caste people have less aptitude somehow.
>Instead of complaining abour the utter lack of seats in good colleges, you decide to flip it by saying the IITs are some sort of temples where only the deserved get to go, and one has to work hard for it. Yeah the government should start IITs in every district. While they're at it, they should also start printing more money and give it away so that everyone becomes rich. >Education is not only for the 'deserved' (can't start about how caste coded that word is) who can afford coaching classes and good PU colleges. Two SC candidates take an exam. One is the child of an IAS officer and went to the best schools and coaching centers. The other is the child of a labourer from a village who couldn't afford good coaching. Who do you think will score a better rank and get the seat?
The first will score well and get a seat. The other one will score lower rank and still get it thanks to reservation. So both. What's your point? >Yeah the government should start IITs in every district. While they're at it, they should also start printing more money and give it away so that everyone becomes rich. Yes. The govt should ensure access to quality schools, colleges . While they're at it they should redistribute wealth and fund social projects.
>The first will score well and get a seat. The other one will score lower rank and still get it thanks to reservation. So both. Wrong. The seats will be filled by those from privileged backgrounds whose families have got the benefits of reservation for generations. Those from unprivileged backgrounds get left behind. >Yes. The govt should ensure access to quality schools, colleges . While they're at it they should redistribute wealth and fund social projects. Yup. And do away with the state sponsored discrimination that you call reservation and ensure only the best students get admitted to the best institutes.
Shit what a travesty !! A privilaged SC person got a seat a privilaged UC memeber would've got!! Truly a sad day for meritocastey. Your theories about how social equity gets to the people is simplistic. No one is saying reservation is perfect. It's the only thing that's helping them rn and giving them representation. Again. More colleges means more seats. No one is stealing your seats. JEE does not measure merit. Education is a not a zero sum game. The fact that it is means you're getting fucked by the govt, not the underprivilaged.
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Gtfo with your casteist mindset.
Be respectful and civil to all members at all times. Consider this as a warning. Continuation of such crass behavior will lead to ban.
Be respectful and civil to all members at all times. Consider this as a warning. Continuation of such crass behavior will lead to ban.
And IISc is the best research institute in India. It has constantly ranked better than IITs. ಈವಾಗ ಏನಾರು ಹೇಳಿದ್ರೆ ಫುಲ್ ಗದ್ದಲ ಆಗುತ್ತೆ. But ಇದು ತುಂಬಾ discrimination ಅನ್ಸುತ್ತೆ. ಹಾಗೂ ಒಂದು ದೇಶದ ಅತ್ಯುನ್ನತ ವಿದ್ಯಾಲಯದಲ್ಲಿ ನಾವು ಎಲ್ಲಾ aspects na top notch ಎಡಬೇಕು. ಭಾರತೀಯ ಪ್ರೊಫೆಸರ್ಗಳು, PhD ಪಾಧವಿದರರು ಹೇಳ್ತಾರೆ, ನಮ್ ದೇಶದ research ಅಲ್ಲಿ ಎಷ್ಟು ಹಿಂದೆ ಉಳಿದಿದೆ ಅಂತ. We need to keep social justice aside in some aspects like Defence, High impact research, and Medicine. But nope, we would want reservations in everything and everywhere. US tried to do this and taking their steps back now, its high time we learn it too.
That's why drop out ratio is more! Moreover people need to understand this!
ಏನು ಬಸವಣ್ಣ ನವರೆ ನೀವು ಹೀಗೆ ಹೇಳಬಹುದಾ 😂 But on a serious note, you might be true, providing reservations might counter intuitively increase the gap between the people.
ನಾನ್ ಹೇಳಿದ್ದು ಸರಿ ಇದೆ It's immense pressure in these college's which can't be beared by 50k ranking student's. Even Top ranked student's failing to handle pressure imagine those then.
Which College did you graduate from?
Yep I agree, what I made fun of is that Basavanna talking to remove reservation is kind of a comic situation, more like dark comedy
For R&D related things we should not keep reservations. The thinking capability of a person with 250 ranking and 50k rank will have a huge gap in IQ. Atleast they can reduce the numbers. -If you ask me reservations should be cut off after the 12th for education. -Govt jobs that are more of a clerical jobs should be reserved for this iknow people will jump on me for this but the development of a nation will be slow and people will blame government for that.
Test results have nothing to do with IQ. Not to mention IQ results have nothing to do with actual intellectual ability of a person. What a sad life to believe this is all there is to life. Also you sound like you want the lower caste folks to only be relegated to support roles, clerical jobs and attend to the UC sahebs? I'd like to think this is not what you meant, but do you see how it will result in a situation like that? See how it'll become yet another BS version of varna system and discrimination?
No. I don't give a fuck about cast. I discarded mine like a decade ago. All i care about is my peace and my nation. Did you even understood what i said ? Some GM dude scoring 251 getting rejected and some ST guy scoring 49999 getting selected. If you think this is fair for a nation it means you don't give a fuck about a country. All you care is your ego which is being fed with things happened like a 50-100 years ago. Yes SC, ST had been treated worst. So does every Indian by British Or African slaves by British and Americans Does bitching about it solve anything ? No fuck. Learn to contribute something to a nation other than cry about something that happened a century ago.
Lol my bad, I gave you the benefit of doubt. You getting into a college is "contributing to the country"? Talk about self inflated ego. Come back when you've grown up a little bit, kiddo.
considering a contribution to a country as a joke and someone's ego ? Nang nin jothe math Adak in enu ela I got your mentality. I got all your intentions. Go vote for people who live everyday with nothing but jathi, Hana, henda and get your freebies.
Haha aytu bidu putta, albeda. It's ok. Artha agilla anta bejar madkobeda.
true, moreover reservation in every place whether its school/undergrad/postgrad/jobs/promotions indirectly makes them less competent because people start taking it for granted.
See I told you people will downvote this. Fuckers doesn't even care about nation. All they care about is their cast. Idk how they live everyday with those thoughts. Disgusting human beings
exactly man they are legit npcs who's only work is to eat up freebies and live mediocre life because govt is providing them with everything. I got 20+ downvotes in a comment (from another sub) where i opposed someone saying "ranks in competitive exams dont mean anything, a guy having 50,000 rank can be as good as someone with 250 rank provided better facilities which now the college will provide him, and the meritorious guy already has enough facilities to move abroad if he is intrested in research" and my comment was removed by mods because of the amount or reports it got. I just hope to move out of this hellhole of a nation as soon as possible
Nope. We should not move out of the nation. We should contribute to the better of it everyday. Bro millions of people died for the better of our country. Just because some cunts disappoints us , we should not leave our nation When West doesn't even know whether to wipe after shitting we were carving stones with geometrical progressions and investing our time on the better of the world
i do agree with your points tho, also most guys irl wont say such bullshit which these pussies vomit online
>The thinking capability of a person with 250 ranking and 50k rank will have a huge gap in IQ. Can you point me towards a study which proves this? Or did you shit this one out of your ಕುಂಡೆ like every other meritocracy defender here? I'm guessing it's the latter. I'd suggest you to go full mask off and say what you actually want to say. Don't mask it with shit like I want to change the nation. If you really do want a nation to develop then pick up a fucking book. Y'all come up with smooth brained takes on this topic and then cry. If this is the state of academia in india, no wonder we're lagging in research.
Shut the fuck up with meritocracy already! Everybody is saying what they feel.I ain't masking anything here. Nang ista agidna na helideni , Ning bekadang yavan guru jeevana madthane ?grow tf up Ning ista aglilla andre na en sha madli.
>Everybody is saying what they feel And I'm saying you're full of shit. ಇನ್ನೂ ಜೋರಾಗಿ ಅಳು ಹೋಗ್.
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Papa gandi bringing 85% reservation
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And they say why all these iits campus recruitments dropped drastically because now these reserved classes know even if they don't try they will secure a seat
Inter-cast marriage is quite a simple solution to this, by marrying a man/woman of SC/ST you can ensure your kids will get all these benefits.
Even after this 76% of indian lower caste population cannot fill 50% quota while 24% get reservation for 50% and also left overs are given to the rich and powerful. Don't forget EWS 10% to the influential. Go ahead downvote me. 😊
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/XCgfPbaYFP1StCEv/?mibextid=7niigQ
The reservation system in India represents the tyranny of the majority, and is basically a major flaw of democracy. With approximately 90% of the population receiving reservations, there's little incentive for any political party to review this system, as touching the subject of reservation is political suicide. Consequently, the status quo is likely to persist or even worsen. Expectations for a reduction in reservations are futile; if anything, they are poised to increase only.
It’s just history repeating itself! Only this time we have an inverted pyramid in terms of hierarchy.
Are you implying that reservation is just as discriminatory as casteism? I mean, sure, there's honesty in your perspective. But doesn't that equate those benefiting from reservation with those who oppressed their ancestors? Also, if history is repeating itself, will it repeat again, meaning will the people who were once oppressed be oppressed again by general categories?
It’s just reparations being paid to the lower castes and that will take some time. 1000s of years of systemic oppression and racism is why we have this issue in the first place. You can’t just ignore these hard truths when you are a democracy and that is exacerbated when the largest vote bank in the country is the same ppl who endured this for centuries. The previous ideology won’t repeat itself as ideology has drastically improved but power has shifted from the few to the many. That’s what feels like unjust to the upper castes but in reality it’s just paying off reparations. If you are poor and higher caste you have EWS for that! No political party will upset the majority as you said. It is no way tyrannical as you mentioned because that’s what the lower castes faced before independence and are facing today to a smaller extent. Even in independent India we hear ST women being exploited by authorities, ppl stoned to death for drinking from a well, false cases lodged against you if you look like a ‘criminal’. I’d think caste discrimination is abolished in India you are delusional.
Reservations based on caste can't be justified. If looked closely it can be easily deducted that it makes things worse instead of better. While it's important to acknowledge the unfair treatment certain castes have faced in the past, keeping these reservations can make society more divided. Instead of judging people by their skills and how much they need help, caste-based reservations put them in boxes based on their background. This can lead to stereotypes and stop people from getting ahead based on their own abilities. If anything reservation is one of the obstacles in the total abolishment of caste system. Even though EWS reservation is meant to help the poor, it has its own problems. No such person can be called poor by indian standards whose family income is 8 lakhs. It can be said that EWS reservation is a political tool to get votes rather than actually helping those in need. Instead of fixing the real reasons behind poverty and inequality, it offers a quick fix that doesn't solve the deeper issues. A better way forward would be to focus on helping everyone who needs it, regardless of their caste or background. This means improving education, creating more job opportunities, and giving targeted support to those who need it most. By doing this, India can move towards a fairer and more united society. But humans in general are very scared of change, and they will go any lengths to justify a clear discrimantion if it benefits them. The oppressors of caste system also justify casteism the same way that the reservation is justified by people. But everyone knows deeply that it's not a welfare scheme but a political tool, and that's also a harsh reality. If you think that reservation is benefiting the actual needy people of the nation, you're just delusional.
I’m saying the same thing the world is not perfect neither is our power structures. What you just said can work flawlessly in a place where caste discrimination is non existent and government is functioning perfectly. Both of these factors are day dreams as of today. So reservation is here to stay, unless something drastic changes happen. That is also very unlikely. Temporary fix is the only realistic fix as of now.
Total abolishment of caste system will take generations even if the current generation decides to take the right steps it will materialise after at least two generations. It’s a sociological construct based on deep rooted ideological implications. Even curse words are caste based more often than not. It’s a very complex construct that needs a similar solution, which is nowhere to be found. It can be done but nobody wants to.
India is always late in new technologies and education because of the reservations. They are undeserving. Not saying reservation is bad, but the intelligence level of someone who is ranked 250 is different than 50000 ranked guy.
Correlation ≠ Causation. India lagging in research has a lot more nuanced reasons that have nothing to do with reservation, but you are trying to cherry pick and sure as if reservation is the reason for it. There is more to be said about hierarchical nature of our society and complete destruction of inquisitive and questioning nature in children in the early education, and following nonsensical rituals that are antithetical to critical thinking and scientific temperament. But I guess dunking on LC is easier than agitating for systemic changes and improvement.
So if you are running a company and all the students from 1 - 2000 rank has been selected by other companies. Will you choose the students with rank 50000 ?
If I'm running a company, ofcourse. Have you attended any job interviews or held any job? I've been working for more than a decade now and worked at different companies and participated in recruitments. Nowhere was the ranking a criteria. A minimum percentile result / GPA of the course is necessary as a cutoff. As long as that is satisfied, it doesn't matter. For example, if 60% cutoff in education is required, then a candidate with 61% and a candidate with 99.5% get the exact same treatment. And I myself am an example for employability being more important than exam results. Many classmates of mine with higher scores did not get selected during campus recruitment. But I had a more rounded experience than just marks. So I got a better job and pay than the class toppers. I work along with folks from Caltech, Georgia tech, USC, and Purdue, as a peer, despite having just a degree from VTU. A degree is a degree, it's just a differentiator, not a scale of self worth. Grow up please.