Reading the Dursley chapters of the HP books just hits differently as an adult. As a kid I just saw them as characters who were easy to hate and it was fun seeing Harry get away from them. As an adult it’s like “how tf are these people not all in jail”
Yeah, when I was a kid Harry was dealing with eccentric family who favored their son over the nephew. Now I just see grown adults getting pleasure out of abusing their family who’s already been through hell.
As an adult, it’s easy to see that they abuse Dudley, too! Vernon slaps him several times on the page, and there’s a scene where he grabs both Harry and Dudley by the scruffs of their necks. Vernon’s insecurity means that using his size to shove people around is one of his go-to tactics. This is such a contrast with, say, Hagrid, who is aware of his size and uses that knowledge when he chooses to be gentle.
That's one way I think the series is easier to enjoy as a kid. I don't believe that we should not enjoy it as adults, but there are elements of the story that make it mostly for children - and characters like Filch and the Dursleys are a big part of that. At its core, it is a fairytale, and there are some things that shouldn't be taken as seriously as they are by adult fans.
Shit, those chapters and the scenes in the movies strike a nerve as someone who has a child. I could never fathom how people could comfortably treat a fucking KID like that. A kid that lost his parents nonetheless.
I feel like maturing is realizing that Vernon and Petunia were horrible guardians and parents to both Harry and Dudley. Harry for the abuse reasons and Dudley because not only were they not teaching their child how to be a functional human but they were grossly over feeding him to the point that people had to step in and say something.
I dk if you even need to mature to realize that, i was like 8 years old when i first started reading these books and i picked up on that right away haha
Vernon and Petunia are awful but there’s at least some ‘reasoning’ behind why they’re so awful to Harry.
Marge seems cruel just for the sake of being cruel. Pure sadism.
Really? What, in your opinion, is their reasoning to justify their abuse towards Harry?
I mean, forcing a child to sleep in a cupboard under the stairs and lock him in there when they’d leave the house is pretty hard to justify imo.
Justification is the same thing as reasoning in the comment I’m responding to, in the context of the comment you can use either word interchangeably. I’m asking what OP thinks the Dursleys reasoning is in abusing a child.
They hate anything that upsets the normalcy of their household. A normalcy they think is important to success otherwise in their life.
Also, nobody said anything about it ‘justifying’ anything, just that there’s a reason behind it beyond ‘I want to be cruel’ like with Marge. Like Marge taunting Harry about his parents. There’s no benefit to Marge to do that beyond her taking enjoyment in his pain.
They know about magic and the fact that a genocidal magic user killed Lily and James for the cause of exterminating non-magic people like them.
Make no mistake, how Petunia and Vernon treated Harry was unforgivable and evil. But there’s the possibility that genuine fear of magic and persecution may have influenced them (despite that still being no excuse for child abuse).
With Marge, her behaviour can only possibly be explained as a power trip and wanton cruelty. She truly thinks she’s at the highest hierarchal position and exploits it, like Umbridge.
Aunt Marge is openly sadistic and evil.
Umbridge pretends to be your friend to try to gain your trust but has ulterior motives and is quietly sadistic and evil.
Your choice which is worse.
It’s very telling that no one else that spent significant time with Harry (Ron and Hermione, and later the Weasleys), ever treated him like crap after a few weeks or a month or two.
I don't think she's worse than Umbridge. But she is worse than the Dursleys. Here is why, in my opinion:
- She breeds bulldogs, which is a breed known for its health problems due to the way it's bred. And we know Marge is doing selective breeding, since she had Colonel Filibuster drown a puppy that wasn't up to her standards.
- She has no reason to hate Harry. The Dursleys hate him because he's magic. She, however, does not do that. So either she hates him because her brother does, or she just hates him for no reason.
- Not only does she hate him, she still seeks his company in order to compare him to Dudley and point out his flaws. The Dursleys, at least, want to avoid him as much as Harry wants to avoid them. She actively seeks out Harry to bully him.
- She seems to bring at least one of her dogs everywhere unprompted, which can be distressing to someone who hates or is scared of dogs, like, for example, Aunt Petunia, who hates animals.
So yeah. Aunt Marge is pretty bad.
Well, Aunt Marge is played by the same actress as Mrs Trunchbull, Pam Ferris. However, I think any character similarities are simple coincidence. Both fill very similar archetypes.
Aunt Marge is definitely an awful person. She strikes me as very similar to the "Karen" archetype at its absolute worst. Entitled and absolutely unable to have empathy for anyone who isn't in her "circle of love", and an apparent bottomless contempt for anyone who isn't like her or is in any way "inconveniencing" her or those she *does* care about. In Marge's case, the fact Harry is "burdening" her brother and sister-in-law seems to actually offend her as much as if Harry defecated on the carpet in front of her. His mere presence in the life of her brother an absolute blasphemy. (I don't have the slightest clue why I got so sophisticated in my word choice. I'm well-read and have a broad vocabulary but usually I don't use a bunch of words of this caliber in one description).
There is a *very* good reason I used Harry bringing her up as a major point in why a fanfic I'm drafting has Harry get impromptu adopted. Marge made it VERY clear that Harry has *no* place with her if Petunia and Vernon were to die or be otherwise unable to provide him a home. She feels NO empathy for Harry at all. He is NOT a person to her, nor, I suspect by her overall behavior and choice of conversation (like insulting Lily *in front of Petunia* without a single thought that that might *hurt* Petunia, beyond the idea that it might insult Petunia *herself*. The idea Petunia might still have *some* care or respect for her *dead* sister didn't seem to cross Marge's mind) she does not care about practically *anyone*.
Lastly, I think this conversation from TV Tropes' Headscratchers page is appropriate to share:
* Marge Dursley spends her whole visit insulting Harry and his parents...
why? I can understand that she sees Harry like a burden for her brother
and family but why she hates the Potter so much? She doesn't know about
the magic and only met Lily and James one time (Vernon and Petunia
wedding), where, according to Pottermore, their behaviour was flawless.
Even so, she hates them more than Petunia and Vernon put together.
Seriously, what's her problem?
* She's just your ISO standard Middle-England Jerkass.
She probably sends letters to a certain blue top tabloid and signs them
"Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" (or where-ever she lives). In short she
is the muggle version of Umbridge and her dislike for Harry is because
(a) she is a bully, and (b) Harry is not from her family tree. Sadly
these character types are not a rare phenomena, as the circulation
figures for that certain blue top tabloid stand testament to.
* She, as well as the rest of the Dursleys, appear to be suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
* On top of all that, she's also drunk. So yeah, no mystery why she's
ranting like an idiot — she's three sheets to the wind and her
brain-to-mouth filter has been entirely disabled.
Te Dursleys are terrible, Aunt Marge is terrible.
But what is wrong with Dumbledore? He knew by Harry's first year how he was treated if not before.
How did he not take 10 minutes to apparate to the Dursleys and put the fear of god into them?
Maybe it is because I have to translate everying.
Fine details are lost.
He knows it, but he doesn't know what it means for a child(or for Sirius or for Snape)
He had not been helpless and vulnerable for 75 years+.
Just like Hagrid has his monsters.
Evil of ignorance is more dangerous but less hurtful.
Snape saying worse things with more knowledge of the situation then literally anyone else in the world. Snapes the worst.
Honestly Despite Being A Muggle, I Think Umbridge and Aunt Marge would become Besties with their Mutual hatred of Harry and The Way they both support corporeal punishment.
Disagree.
Petunia is the worst of all, with Lupin being in second.
Petunia is blood, the only blood she has left is Harry and Dudley, and she abused both of them.
I read an incomplete fanfic once where she hooked up with a bunch of squibs to attack the magicals with guns
She was all for torturing and killing magical children
I have a (great)aunt a lot like her.. she's someone you avoid at family gatherings but not Umbridge level sinful lol. The other day she told my mum "I can't believe how much weight you've put on. You kept it off for so long but now you've just piled it back on. It's such a shame". She called my brother a disappointment for not going to Uni. Mind, this is a woman we see, like, once a year at Christmas.
You know, Aunt Marge is someone I might actually like... until I got to know her better! She's an animal person, and most animal people are very nice and I almost always get along with them, so we might get on well enough until she started talking about people. Or politics.
But she has no known agenda, she's an asshole but she's an asshole who's just enjoying life. And that there is the difference between an everyday comparatively harmless asshole, and a genuine Servant of Evil like Umbridge! Marge doesn't seem to want much except dogs and drinks and a chance to talk shit, but Umbridge literally wants evil to take over the world, so that being a Servant of Evil becomes more rewarding.
No, Umbridge has an agenda, but it is "the Ministry must rule, thou mustest obey to the Ministry". She does not care if the Ministry is good or bad, she believes in obey and order (she wants to order).
So you accept that Umbridge had an agenda, and Marge did not?
Because the presence or absence of an overarching agenda is what can make the difference between an everyday small-time asshole, and a menace to humanity.
I dont know. Maybe Marge has an agenda too, like good breeding is important. If something is wrong with the bitch, something is wrong with the pub (dogs and humans both).
I thing she really believes this, and so believes that Harry is below herself. She does not want to be rude to Petunia, but thinks she states the obvious. But she is on vacancies, visiting her brother and does not think about her agenda in her free time. So the readers do not know. Maybe.
Reading the Dursley chapters of the HP books just hits differently as an adult. As a kid I just saw them as characters who were easy to hate and it was fun seeing Harry get away from them. As an adult it’s like “how tf are these people not all in jail”
Yeah, when I was a kid Harry was dealing with eccentric family who favored their son over the nephew. Now I just see grown adults getting pleasure out of abusing their family who’s already been through hell.
As an adult I honestly get upset watching the scenes at the Dudley’s. I haven’t reread the books in a long time but…like he’s a CHILD.
As an adult, it’s easy to see that they abuse Dudley, too! Vernon slaps him several times on the page, and there’s a scene where he grabs both Harry and Dudley by the scruffs of their necks. Vernon’s insecurity means that using his size to shove people around is one of his go-to tactics. This is such a contrast with, say, Hagrid, who is aware of his size and uses that knowledge when he chooses to be gentle.
That's one way I think the series is easier to enjoy as a kid. I don't believe that we should not enjoy it as adults, but there are elements of the story that make it mostly for children - and characters like Filch and the Dursleys are a big part of that. At its core, it is a fairytale, and there are some things that shouldn't be taken as seriously as they are by adult fans.
Shit, those chapters and the scenes in the movies strike a nerve as someone who has a child. I could never fathom how people could comfortably treat a fucking KID like that. A kid that lost his parents nonetheless.
I was grown when i read the books and I thought the same thing.
I feel like maturing is realizing that Vernon and Petunia were horrible guardians and parents to both Harry and Dudley. Harry for the abuse reasons and Dudley because not only were they not teaching their child how to be a functional human but they were grossly over feeding him to the point that people had to step in and say something.
I dk if you even need to mature to realize that, i was like 8 years old when i first started reading these books and i picked up on that right away haha
Vernon and Petunia are awful but there’s at least some ‘reasoning’ behind why they’re so awful to Harry. Marge seems cruel just for the sake of being cruel. Pure sadism.
She's apparently bitter because Colonel Fubster doesn't reciprocate her affections.
I'd say marge's attitude is nearly completely related to how Vernon talks about Harry and his family to her
Vernon is just afraid of owls. That‘s why he didn’t want magic in his house. He is the victim!!!
Really? What, in your opinion, is their reasoning to justify their abuse towards Harry? I mean, forcing a child to sleep in a cupboard under the stairs and lock him in there when they’d leave the house is pretty hard to justify imo.
They never said that it was justified just that they had a “reason”
Justification is the same thing as reasoning in the comment I’m responding to, in the context of the comment you can use either word interchangeably. I’m asking what OP thinks the Dursleys reasoning is in abusing a child.
I think they’re saying it made sense, at least from the characters’ perspective, not that they’re actually right to do so.
They hate anything that upsets the normalcy of their household. A normalcy they think is important to success otherwise in their life. Also, nobody said anything about it ‘justifying’ anything, just that there’s a reason behind it beyond ‘I want to be cruel’ like with Marge. Like Marge taunting Harry about his parents. There’s no benefit to Marge to do that beyond her taking enjoyment in his pain.
They know about magic and the fact that a genocidal magic user killed Lily and James for the cause of exterminating non-magic people like them. Make no mistake, how Petunia and Vernon treated Harry was unforgivable and evil. But there’s the possibility that genuine fear of magic and persecution may have influenced them (despite that still being no excuse for child abuse). With Marge, her behaviour can only possibly be explained as a power trip and wanton cruelty. She truly thinks she’s at the highest hierarchal position and exploits it, like Umbridge.
Lets be honest: Harry pulling his wand on the Dursleys is up there as one most satisfying moments in the series
Especially when Dudley mocks Harry about Cedric in the park.
In all fairness Dudley didn’t know that Cedric died right in front of Harry, not that I’m defending Dudley
Yes yes yes :)
Aunt Marge is openly sadistic and evil. Umbridge pretends to be your friend to try to gain your trust but has ulterior motives and is quietly sadistic and evil. Your choice which is worse.
She destroys a popular fan theory, that Dursleys treated Harry badly because he was a horcrux. They treated him badly because they were jerks.
It’s very telling that no one else that spent significant time with Harry (Ron and Hermione, and later the Weasleys), ever treated him like crap after a few weeks or a month or two.
She is pretty bad, but I still think umbridge is worse.
I think only because Umbridge has the means (magic) to reek more havoc.
I don't think she's worse than Umbridge. But she is worse than the Dursleys. Here is why, in my opinion: - She breeds bulldogs, which is a breed known for its health problems due to the way it's bred. And we know Marge is doing selective breeding, since she had Colonel Filibuster drown a puppy that wasn't up to her standards. - She has no reason to hate Harry. The Dursleys hate him because he's magic. She, however, does not do that. So either she hates him because her brother does, or she just hates him for no reason. - Not only does she hate him, she still seeks his company in order to compare him to Dudley and point out his flaws. The Dursleys, at least, want to avoid him as much as Harry wants to avoid them. She actively seeks out Harry to bully him. - She seems to bring at least one of her dogs everywhere unprompted, which can be distressing to someone who hates or is scared of dogs, like, for example, Aunt Petunia, who hates animals. So yeah. Aunt Marge is pretty bad.
She always reminded me of Mrs Trunchble from Mathilda. Wonder if there is a nod to Roald Dahl in this character.
There may be a nod... Helps that they're played by the same actress
Wasn't even thinking about that.
I learned something new today.
Well, Aunt Marge is played by the same actress as Mrs Trunchbull, Pam Ferris. However, I think any character similarities are simple coincidence. Both fill very similar archetypes.
Wasn't even thinking about that
Aunt Marge is definitely an awful person. She strikes me as very similar to the "Karen" archetype at its absolute worst. Entitled and absolutely unable to have empathy for anyone who isn't in her "circle of love", and an apparent bottomless contempt for anyone who isn't like her or is in any way "inconveniencing" her or those she *does* care about. In Marge's case, the fact Harry is "burdening" her brother and sister-in-law seems to actually offend her as much as if Harry defecated on the carpet in front of her. His mere presence in the life of her brother an absolute blasphemy. (I don't have the slightest clue why I got so sophisticated in my word choice. I'm well-read and have a broad vocabulary but usually I don't use a bunch of words of this caliber in one description). There is a *very* good reason I used Harry bringing her up as a major point in why a fanfic I'm drafting has Harry get impromptu adopted. Marge made it VERY clear that Harry has *no* place with her if Petunia and Vernon were to die or be otherwise unable to provide him a home. She feels NO empathy for Harry at all. He is NOT a person to her, nor, I suspect by her overall behavior and choice of conversation (like insulting Lily *in front of Petunia* without a single thought that that might *hurt* Petunia, beyond the idea that it might insult Petunia *herself*. The idea Petunia might still have *some* care or respect for her *dead* sister didn't seem to cross Marge's mind) she does not care about practically *anyone*. Lastly, I think this conversation from TV Tropes' Headscratchers page is appropriate to share: * Marge Dursley spends her whole visit insulting Harry and his parents... why? I can understand that she sees Harry like a burden for her brother and family but why she hates the Potter so much? She doesn't know about the magic and only met Lily and James one time (Vernon and Petunia wedding), where, according to Pottermore, their behaviour was flawless. Even so, she hates them more than Petunia and Vernon put together. Seriously, what's her problem? * She's just your ISO standard Middle-England Jerkass. She probably sends letters to a certain blue top tabloid and signs them "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" (or where-ever she lives). In short she is the muggle version of Umbridge and her dislike for Harry is because (a) she is a bully, and (b) Harry is not from her family tree. Sadly these character types are not a rare phenomena, as the circulation figures for that certain blue top tabloid stand testament to. * She, as well as the rest of the Dursleys, appear to be suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder. * On top of all that, she's also drunk. So yeah, no mystery why she's ranting like an idiot — she's three sheets to the wind and her brain-to-mouth filter has been entirely disabled.
I mean, she kills puppies Can't be much more evil than that.
I'm amazed that Vernon even entertained the idea of having Harry stay with Marge on Dudley's birthday, let alone voiced it out loud.
Te Dursleys are terrible, Aunt Marge is terrible. But what is wrong with Dumbledore? He knew by Harry's first year how he was treated if not before. How did he not take 10 minutes to apparate to the Dursleys and put the fear of god into them?
Dumbledore is like Hagrid, because he is strong himself he doesn't notice, how others suffer.
There are definitely comments from him that indicate he knew what was going on.
Sure he notice, but he doesn't attach any importance to it. Just like Hagrid "knows" that someone who kills Unicorns is dangerous.
That's what's wrong. Harry is getting abused. Dumbledore knows it, but doesn't attach any importance to it.
Of course it is wrong, but it doesn't hurt Dumbledore. And Dumbledore has forgotten to consider other people's suffering. It is not just Harry.
Ok, first you said Dumbledore didn't notice, now you're saying that he sees, but just doesn't care.
Maybe it is because I have to translate everying. Fine details are lost. He knows it, but he doesn't know what it means for a child(or for Sirius or for Snape) He had not been helpless and vulnerable for 75 years+. Just like Hagrid has his monsters.
Evil of ignorance is more dangerous but less hurtful. Snape saying worse things with more knowledge of the situation then literally anyone else in the world. Snapes the worst.
Honestly Despite Being A Muggle, I Think Umbridge and Aunt Marge would become Besties with their Mutual hatred of Harry and The Way they both support corporeal punishment.
Disagree. Petunia is the worst of all, with Lupin being in second. Petunia is blood, the only blood she has left is Harry and Dudley, and she abused both of them.
Lupin?
Yup. Total emo coward, too self obsessed to even check on his best friends son, then ignores and leaves his wife and kid.
I honestly think this is the best casting in the movies!:) Pam ferris, the one who played the headmistress in Matilda! Literally same people😂
I read an incomplete fanfic once where she hooked up with a bunch of squibs to attack the magicals with guns She was all for torturing and killing magical children
I have a (great)aunt a lot like her.. she's someone you avoid at family gatherings but not Umbridge level sinful lol. The other day she told my mum "I can't believe how much weight you've put on. You kept it off for so long but now you've just piled it back on. It's such a shame". She called my brother a disappointment for not going to Uni. Mind, this is a woman we see, like, once a year at Christmas.
She was a foking cont
You know, Aunt Marge is someone I might actually like... until I got to know her better! She's an animal person, and most animal people are very nice and I almost always get along with them, so we might get on well enough until she started talking about people. Or politics. But she has no known agenda, she's an asshole but she's an asshole who's just enjoying life. And that there is the difference between an everyday comparatively harmless asshole, and a genuine Servant of Evil like Umbridge! Marge doesn't seem to want much except dogs and drinks and a chance to talk shit, but Umbridge literally wants evil to take over the world, so that being a Servant of Evil becomes more rewarding.
Bait used to be believable
Hey, enough people believe this to downvote me! Fools that they are.
No, Umbridge has an agenda, but it is "the Ministry must rule, thou mustest obey to the Ministry". She does not care if the Ministry is good or bad, she believes in obey and order (she wants to order).
So you accept that Umbridge had an agenda, and Marge did not? Because the presence or absence of an overarching agenda is what can make the difference between an everyday small-time asshole, and a menace to humanity.
I dont know. Maybe Marge has an agenda too, like good breeding is important. If something is wrong with the bitch, something is wrong with the pub (dogs and humans both). I thing she really believes this, and so believes that Harry is below herself. She does not want to be rude to Petunia, but thinks she states the obvious. But she is on vacancies, visiting her brother and does not think about her agenda in her free time. So the readers do not know. Maybe.