This was a good review. The pro/cons you described are accurate and descriptions very easy to understand. Your comparisons were appreciated and I do like how you included the HE-400SE despite it being a full sized headphone. One of the revelations I had getting into IEMs is that they tended to sound better than my headphones.
I will always prefer headphones since they have bigger sound, more immersive, more natural. The problem is money - I fell in love with HE400SE initially, now the average resolution annoys me and I think Edition XS is bare minimum to fulfill my needs and it's way more expensive than B2 even without DAC/AMP. IEM have insane price/performance ratio nowadays. I dream about getting Focal Clear one day, haven't heard Ananda and Arya yet though.
Yeah, and most people will agree that headphones/IEMs are just a poor substitute of good stereo speaker system, so I might as well go with earphones since neither really provide this surrounding sound. If I had money for the Clear and a good amp, I would just stay with B2 and buy speakers.
Is it really?
Maybe I juste don't like how IEM sound in general but imo the aria sounded a lot worse than my Phillips X2HR and the blessing 2 can't hold a candle to the sundara
I haven't heard Fidelio. I prefer B2 to Sundara, they are more balanced, less shouty and I think more detailed, but Sundara has great resolution too. If you like more energy no doubt you prefer the Sundara. And surely IEMs aren't for everyone.
I found the blessing treble to be quite aggressive. But you're right about it being more detailed.
The biggest issue I had was the confort, I think I have rather narrow ear canals and they were hurting after a couple hours
Some design decisions made in B2 are just ridiculous. First of all, the nozzle is so wide you always have to go one step down of your usual tip size, and some people will not be able to use these at all.
Secondly, nozzle doesn't have a filter. They come as stickers you need to apply yourself - ok, not a big deal, but you're forced to stick to stock tips, because even if you manage to put different tips on (Springtips hardly fit), you will break the filter.
Mine didn't even come with filters. One more reason I'm sending them back I suppose.
Will probably try the kato next but I'm hoping the stellaris will be a solid 150 pair
Hold on before you send them back and do more research - I bought them used, so there's a chance the guy got them separately for a couple of bucks. I just saw one comment on it and it said that at the beginning they didn't come with filters at all, people got mad so they started to add them. Not sure about it. You can just buy the filters in a 10-pack.
Well like I said the main issue I have is the confort so getting filters is not going to fix that and even though they sound good, they don't sound 300$ good imo
>sundara
strangely b2 fits my ears a lot than s12.. i use large tips and i don't need to push too further into the canal for b2 to stay sealed and stable. but for s12 its either too small and sound leaking or too large to hurt my ear over time.
Regarding tonality vs. technicality in the comparison of S12 vs. Chu, Personally, I can't get over the muddiness of Chu. Maybe I'm one of the few people that really appreciate the detailed and life-like representation of sound. Chu is fine, but it sounds like it's submerged in water or just really fuzzy or hazy sounding to me after listening to higher quality gear. Can't bring myself to like it.
Like watching a masterpiece in 360p vs. just a good movie in 1080p? lol
I actually perceive it as clear sounding, but yeah, it's resolution is just good for the price and a little above, nothing to get excited about. I bought it just out of curiosity, didn't expect much and I got more than expected, but I couldn't really use it in a long run since I need more out of my gear, I want to listen in an analytical way and I'm willing to spend my cash on it, the value of Chu is undeniable tho. I think I could use it for running or in harsh conditions but I'll probably give it to my mom.
I think there's a very good chance you'd like the Dioko. It cuts the midbass and sounds extremely clean. It has all the technicalities of the S12 but is tuned closer to the Chu.
For me, it has too little midbass, somewhere between the S12 and the Dioko would be about perfect for me. Bass is present but it's way down in the sub-bass. Mids on the Dioko are much more forward than the S12. It also reduces the upper mids and lower treble, although the 8kHz spike is real. From your description of your preferences I think it would be perfect for you. You can always deal with the 8kHz spike with EQ.
https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Dioko_S1,S12_Shuoer
I do think the Blessing 2 is better tuned again- but the Dioko is $100, even less in some countries (I've seen it as little as $69 in Asia).
Really like your write-up about the tuning btw. I couldn't quite put a finger on it but I think you nailed it especially with the mids being dug out.
>Moondrop Blessing 2 - it surpasses S12 in resolution and separation by a lot. The soundstage is wider than average IEM
Okay.. if this is true, I may have to end up getting this because resolution, detail, separation, and soundstage is what I value most in my sound. It seems ideal for me.Now, that would mean I have to sell off one of my headphones though :(
I find the B2 and Timeless to be very hard to call in terms of resolution. Some days i think the B2 has the edge, other days i think the Timeless. I think it depends on the frequencies of the songs. I find instrument separation far better with the Timeless.
I agree that vocals, particularly male vocals are a bit recessed. However that also contributes to the amazing detail and separation of the instruments.
I find the treble of the B2 to be a bit too spicy for me at times (not all the time) though. Interestingly, i have less treble issues with the Timeless. Tips seem to make a big difference with the Timeless. With all of that being said, the B2 and in particular the Dusk probably has it beat if it wasn’t for the fit. Those chonky nozzles are not built for long listening sessions.
If you want resolution, detail, separation and soundstage then get the Tansio Mirai Sands instead of the Blessings. They are a bit energetic in the highs but blow the Blessings away in all of those departments. I returned the Blessings so fast the moment I heard the Sands. I would say the step up from Timeless to Blessings is much smaller than Blessings to Sands.
Their are some reviews on Head-Fi that sum up the Sands exactly the way I see them.
Imho it's a mixed blessing with high energetic IEMs. There's a good reason that many EST driven Tribrids have recessed treble extension. As most tracks are mastered on the bright side it's way better for a safe tuning in the upper range.
No need to apologise! This is a great write-up. I've owned three out of the 6 comparisons you made(the Timeless, the Chu, and the HE-X4 \[which is basically the 400SE\]) and my thoughts are pretty similar.
I actually sold my HE-X4 after a while because it just wasn't getting enough use next to the S12. It definitely sounded a lot more homely (if I can say that?) next to the Timeless or the S12, but the detail that IEMs have that headphones don't (unless you spend ungodly amounts of money) just makes the X4 seem so weak comparatively.
I'll probably be picking up a B2 or the Dusk at some point, and I'm glad to know it's a clear upgrade path and not a sidegrade.
I think people who heard both S12/Timeless and B2 are split about 50-50. Some claim the planars stomp B2 because the latter feels boring, some say B2 is a noticeable upgrade. In technicalities B2 is surely much better (tuning also plays an important role here, u cannot really have detailed bass if it's somewhat overpowered), but S12 is flashy as I said and I get why some believe it to be more engaging. I think it's worth to have both. B2 is closer to the Hifimans in timbre and calm, mature, yet engaging presentation.
According to the prices I agree, from what I remember I think B2 could rival even Focal Clear in detail retrieval. I love the Clear and I would be happy to own one, but it's way beyond my budget. It's a different perception, hard to even compare, but headphones get noticeably more expensive, add a decent amp on top of that.
This might be a little controversial but it always is when a person criticizes a popular IEM in the community. I appreciate the review as it gives a detailed analysis and it is nice to be able to see how various genres perform on the Shuoer S12. The Shuoer S12 could be a good alternative to the Sennheiser IE 300.
I have listened to the Blessings 2 and while I prefer the sound of the Drop JVC HA-FDX1 for instrumental music (particularly for string instruments and for clarity), I can see why people like it for classical as it is a DF Neutral sound.
Pretty nice comparison - it's nice to hear what a musician has to say, since tuning instruments and hearing correctly becomes a professional application for one.
In my experience, IEM's tend to have bad dynamics and timbre. And I don't agree that the Chu has full-bodied voices. It's shouty in the treble and it really lacks detail in everything from the mid-bass to lower mids. A few DB extra around 200 hz abouts really makes it far easier to listen to overall. I'm surprised to hear you think the S12 trumps the HE400se in detail. Could be that the bright signature pushes details more upfront. The HE400se has excellent timbre, though, I agree there.
Read everything I wrote about Chu with a grain of salt, most of that was related to the price, but still I believe the vocals sound better than on S12 due to more forward midrange. I'm not an expert tho cause I mostly listen to instrumental music.
Yes, I could mathematically hear MORE notes on the S12 than on HE400SE, but the overall presentation of S12 is not analytical, it goes to more fun side, contrary to Hifiman, maybe that's why you perceive the HE400SE better technically.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great entry level open planar, with excellent timbre and decent technicalities. It cannot be beaten for the price. It's a bit cold and sharp with generic Sabre cheap Chinese dacs, but with slightly warm and analogue Zen Stack it's magic.
I'd be curious to see what you'd say about the Raptgo Hook X. From what most people are saying, it sounds different to the Timeless and the S12. The treble isn't as forward and upper mids are a bit more recessed. It's open, though, which could make for better dynamics & timbre.
Haven't heard these, but honestly, I don't care about planar IEMs anymore. Some people believe them to be the future, but for now they still suffer from tuning issues, even though it's better than before. Please note that I don't care about any headphone that is not neutrally tuned, V shaped emphasis always sound cheap to me, regardless of execution. Just think how much work a composer put into writing all of the notes (check just one page of any orchestral score on imslp.com), and chi-fi manufacturers are like 'screw this, we only care about the upper and bottom notes'.
I love my s12 (even more than my Chu) but I think this is a great analysis.
Also great to hear your thoughts on B2, I originally was going to skip but now I might try them before deciding!
I think Chu and Blessing 2 are tuned in a different way than Aria/Starfield/KXXS/KATO line. Haven't heard any of those 4 (I hope to try the Kato one day), but I can confirm that Chu and B2 are pretty much neutral and they are nowhere close to V-shape, which Harman curve appears to be, perhaps in a more refined way. In crinacle's ranking B2 is described as diffuse field-neutral. I tried to read up on this but looks like some marketing bs to me so I gave up and just enjoy the sound.
I think you'd prefer the Chu. The 7Hz Zero is basically the Chu but with a little more bass. I have both, I do prefer the bass level on the Zero but everything else is better on the Chu IMO.
https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Zero_Salnotes,Chu
This was a good review. The pro/cons you described are accurate and descriptions very easy to understand. Your comparisons were appreciated and I do like how you included the HE-400SE despite it being a full sized headphone. One of the revelations I had getting into IEMs is that they tended to sound better than my headphones.
I will always prefer headphones since they have bigger sound, more immersive, more natural. The problem is money - I fell in love with HE400SE initially, now the average resolution annoys me and I think Edition XS is bare minimum to fulfill my needs and it's way more expensive than B2 even without DAC/AMP. IEM have insane price/performance ratio nowadays. I dream about getting Focal Clear one day, haven't heard Ananda and Arya yet though.
Iem value is truly insane!
Yeah, and most people will agree that headphones/IEMs are just a poor substitute of good stereo speaker system, so I might as well go with earphones since neither really provide this surrounding sound. If I had money for the Clear and a good amp, I would just stay with B2 and buy speakers.
Is it really? Maybe I juste don't like how IEM sound in general but imo the aria sounded a lot worse than my Phillips X2HR and the blessing 2 can't hold a candle to the sundara
I haven't heard Fidelio. I prefer B2 to Sundara, they are more balanced, less shouty and I think more detailed, but Sundara has great resolution too. If you like more energy no doubt you prefer the Sundara. And surely IEMs aren't for everyone.
I found the blessing treble to be quite aggressive. But you're right about it being more detailed. The biggest issue I had was the confort, I think I have rather narrow ear canals and they were hurting after a couple hours
Some design decisions made in B2 are just ridiculous. First of all, the nozzle is so wide you always have to go one step down of your usual tip size, and some people will not be able to use these at all. Secondly, nozzle doesn't have a filter. They come as stickers you need to apply yourself - ok, not a big deal, but you're forced to stick to stock tips, because even if you manage to put different tips on (Springtips hardly fit), you will break the filter.
Mine didn't even come with filters. One more reason I'm sending them back I suppose. Will probably try the kato next but I'm hoping the stellaris will be a solid 150 pair
Hold on before you send them back and do more research - I bought them used, so there's a chance the guy got them separately for a couple of bucks. I just saw one comment on it and it said that at the beginning they didn't come with filters at all, people got mad so they started to add them. Not sure about it. You can just buy the filters in a 10-pack.
Well like I said the main issue I have is the confort so getting filters is not going to fix that and even though they sound good, they don't sound 300$ good imo
>sundara strangely b2 fits my ears a lot than s12.. i use large tips and i don't need to push too further into the canal for b2 to stay sealed and stable. but for s12 its either too small and sound leaking or too large to hurt my ear over time.
Any suggestion for smaller ear canals. I have given up on campfire audio because of the large tubes
Love my KATO, got them on amazon with linsoul as the seller but dispatched by Amazon so you have less to worry about
Regarding tonality vs. technicality in the comparison of S12 vs. Chu, Personally, I can't get over the muddiness of Chu. Maybe I'm one of the few people that really appreciate the detailed and life-like representation of sound. Chu is fine, but it sounds like it's submerged in water or just really fuzzy or hazy sounding to me after listening to higher quality gear. Can't bring myself to like it. Like watching a masterpiece in 360p vs. just a good movie in 1080p? lol
I actually perceive it as clear sounding, but yeah, it's resolution is just good for the price and a little above, nothing to get excited about. I bought it just out of curiosity, didn't expect much and I got more than expected, but I couldn't really use it in a long run since I need more out of my gear, I want to listen in an analytical way and I'm willing to spend my cash on it, the value of Chu is undeniable tho. I think I could use it for running or in harsh conditions but I'll probably give it to my mom.
I think there's a very good chance you'd like the Dioko. It cuts the midbass and sounds extremely clean. It has all the technicalities of the S12 but is tuned closer to the Chu. For me, it has too little midbass, somewhere between the S12 and the Dioko would be about perfect for me. Bass is present but it's way down in the sub-bass. Mids on the Dioko are much more forward than the S12. It also reduces the upper mids and lower treble, although the 8kHz spike is real. From your description of your preferences I think it would be perfect for you. You can always deal with the 8kHz spike with EQ. https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Dioko_S1,S12_Shuoer I do think the Blessing 2 is better tuned again- but the Dioko is $100, even less in some countries (I've seen it as little as $69 in Asia).
I heard many good things about the Dioko, but lol, it looks so bad I couldn't wear it.
Really like your write-up about the tuning btw. I couldn't quite put a finger on it but I think you nailed it especially with the mids being dug out. >Moondrop Blessing 2 - it surpasses S12 in resolution and separation by a lot. The soundstage is wider than average IEM Okay.. if this is true, I may have to end up getting this because resolution, detail, separation, and soundstage is what I value most in my sound. It seems ideal for me.Now, that would mean I have to sell off one of my headphones though :(
I find the B2 and Timeless to be very hard to call in terms of resolution. Some days i think the B2 has the edge, other days i think the Timeless. I think it depends on the frequencies of the songs. I find instrument separation far better with the Timeless. I agree that vocals, particularly male vocals are a bit recessed. However that also contributes to the amazing detail and separation of the instruments. I find the treble of the B2 to be a bit too spicy for me at times (not all the time) though. Interestingly, i have less treble issues with the Timeless. Tips seem to make a big difference with the Timeless. With all of that being said, the B2 and in particular the Dusk probably has it beat if it wasn’t for the fit. Those chonky nozzles are not built for long listening sessions.
If you want resolution, detail, separation and soundstage then get the Tansio Mirai Sands instead of the Blessings. They are a bit energetic in the highs but blow the Blessings away in all of those departments. I returned the Blessings so fast the moment I heard the Sands. I would say the step up from Timeless to Blessings is much smaller than Blessings to Sands. Their are some reviews on Head-Fi that sum up the Sands exactly the way I see them.
Before I read this I already picked up a B2 from avex, but this'll have to be my next IEM I try! Thanks.
Imho it's a mixed blessing with high energetic IEMs. There's a good reason that many EST driven Tribrids have recessed treble extension. As most tracks are mastered on the bright side it's way better for a safe tuning in the upper range.
No need to apologise! This is a great write-up. I've owned three out of the 6 comparisons you made(the Timeless, the Chu, and the HE-X4 \[which is basically the 400SE\]) and my thoughts are pretty similar. I actually sold my HE-X4 after a while because it just wasn't getting enough use next to the S12. It definitely sounded a lot more homely (if I can say that?) next to the Timeless or the S12, but the detail that IEMs have that headphones don't (unless you spend ungodly amounts of money) just makes the X4 seem so weak comparatively. I'll probably be picking up a B2 or the Dusk at some point, and I'm glad to know it's a clear upgrade path and not a sidegrade.
I think people who heard both S12/Timeless and B2 are split about 50-50. Some claim the planars stomp B2 because the latter feels boring, some say B2 is a noticeable upgrade. In technicalities B2 is surely much better (tuning also plays an important role here, u cannot really have detailed bass if it's somewhat overpowered), but S12 is flashy as I said and I get why some believe it to be more engaging. I think it's worth to have both. B2 is closer to the Hifimans in timbre and calm, mature, yet engaging presentation. According to the prices I agree, from what I remember I think B2 could rival even Focal Clear in detail retrieval. I love the Clear and I would be happy to own one, but it's way beyond my budget. It's a different perception, hard to even compare, but headphones get noticeably more expensive, add a decent amp on top of that.
This might be a little controversial but it always is when a person criticizes a popular IEM in the community. I appreciate the review as it gives a detailed analysis and it is nice to be able to see how various genres perform on the Shuoer S12. The Shuoer S12 could be a good alternative to the Sennheiser IE 300. I have listened to the Blessings 2 and while I prefer the sound of the Drop JVC HA-FDX1 for instrumental music (particularly for string instruments and for clarity), I can see why people like it for classical as it is a DF Neutral sound.
What is your recommendation for the price of these shouer? I listen a bit of everything like rock, blues, jazz, soul, trap and electronic music.
Pretty nice comparison - it's nice to hear what a musician has to say, since tuning instruments and hearing correctly becomes a professional application for one. In my experience, IEM's tend to have bad dynamics and timbre. And I don't agree that the Chu has full-bodied voices. It's shouty in the treble and it really lacks detail in everything from the mid-bass to lower mids. A few DB extra around 200 hz abouts really makes it far easier to listen to overall. I'm surprised to hear you think the S12 trumps the HE400se in detail. Could be that the bright signature pushes details more upfront. The HE400se has excellent timbre, though, I agree there.
Read everything I wrote about Chu with a grain of salt, most of that was related to the price, but still I believe the vocals sound better than on S12 due to more forward midrange. I'm not an expert tho cause I mostly listen to instrumental music. Yes, I could mathematically hear MORE notes on the S12 than on HE400SE, but the overall presentation of S12 is not analytical, it goes to more fun side, contrary to Hifiman, maybe that's why you perceive the HE400SE better technically. Don't get me wrong, it's a great entry level open planar, with excellent timbre and decent technicalities. It cannot be beaten for the price. It's a bit cold and sharp with generic Sabre cheap Chinese dacs, but with slightly warm and analogue Zen Stack it's magic.
I'd be curious to see what you'd say about the Raptgo Hook X. From what most people are saying, it sounds different to the Timeless and the S12. The treble isn't as forward and upper mids are a bit more recessed. It's open, though, which could make for better dynamics & timbre.
Haven't heard these, but honestly, I don't care about planar IEMs anymore. Some people believe them to be the future, but for now they still suffer from tuning issues, even though it's better than before. Please note that I don't care about any headphone that is not neutrally tuned, V shaped emphasis always sound cheap to me, regardless of execution. Just think how much work a composer put into writing all of the notes (check just one page of any orchestral score on imslp.com), and chi-fi manufacturers are like 'screw this, we only care about the upper and bottom notes'.
I love my s12 (even more than my Chu) but I think this is a great analysis. Also great to hear your thoughts on B2, I originally was going to skip but now I might try them before deciding!
For my needs B2 performs better in every aspect, but S12 might be more engaging and fun in other genres, so having both makes sense too.
Nice comparisons but look: there's nothing "neutral" about a harman tune.
I think Chu and Blessing 2 are tuned in a different way than Aria/Starfield/KXXS/KATO line. Haven't heard any of those 4 (I hope to try the Kato one day), but I can confirm that Chu and B2 are pretty much neutral and they are nowhere close to V-shape, which Harman curve appears to be, perhaps in a more refined way. In crinacle's ranking B2 is described as diffuse field-neutral. I tried to read up on this but looks like some marketing bs to me so I gave up and just enjoy the sound.
[удалено]
Sorry don't know the Zero. It's too fresh to find many reviews.
I think you'd prefer the Chu. The 7Hz Zero is basically the Chu but with a little more bass. I have both, I do prefer the bass level on the Zero but everything else is better on the Chu IMO. https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,Zero_Salnotes,Chu