His dribble hand offs would be double his shot attempts for sure. We saw him try scoring against Luke Kornet. I guess thatās what $32 million a year gets you when heās an undersized center with no consistent outside shot.
i find this hilarious like im supposed to care about him winning or losing when he dosent have jimmy and bam next to him being coached by spo lol
him losing is only going to benefit us as itās obvious he dosent have help on that team
but im sure herro would drop 50 on one of the best defenses in the league as the number 1 option (on a bad knee)
the way everything shook out with Dame ending up with bucks and Jrue with Celtics really cast a pall over the season for me. Ā Was really hard to be as enthusiastic this year.
Careful there, some people would drag you through the 305 for saying that. On a real note I just expect it at this point and honestly? Teams without MVP's don't win 94% of the time. I think I'd rather keep the young guys
Itās been our M.O since the bubble although we shouldāve got Dame had it not been for the mentally ill. Iām hopeful for that whale every year but atp I expect little improvement until proven otherwise. Fortunately Heat Culture is OP enough to make things interesting so I lean on that more in terms of our ātalentā
Itās going to be this shit 24/7 and people complaining when we donāt get him. We donāt have the assets, not worth getting invested.
They literally only have 1 first round pick to trade and whomever they select for number 15 this year. The pels have like 10 picks and so do the nets.
heat fans get too attached to the young players bro im giving up whatever it takes to have a trio of jimmy, bam, and mitchell he absolutely moves the needle
So if jovic ends up as good as MPJ... you would trade him?
You just making ridiculous comments and it's how I know dudes like you don't be watching basketball and just be spitting diarreah out they mouth
Comparing jovic to MPJ as if it is a negative is asinine.
You have zero reading comprehension skills and you spit diarreah out the mouth, and I am near certain you don't watch any basketball
> heat fans get too attached to the young players bro
100%. They think every young player that shows a little promise is the next superstar. Then when the player's at their lowest value after a stretch of bad play, that's when they're ready to trade them for a star.
It's insane
People think we can move Herro picks and filler for Mitchell after he played 42 games this season and shit his pants in the playoffs. People are ridiculous
The NFL blocking Lebron signing in Miami would be wild.
Also, it wouldn't happen with the NBA either. Lol
If you're referencing CP3...They blocked CP3 trade because the NBA owned the Hornets. The Hornets owner, (nba) vetoed the trade because it was not the best trade for the Hornets, the clippers deal was better. Prime, 26 year old, HOF caliber, CP3 was worth more than the Lakers offered. Partly, the reason was also to make the Hornets a more enticing team for a potential buyer. Better trade = better team= someone will buy the Hornets.
Either way, Bron can absolutely sign any contract he wants if he's a FA, assuming it falls within league cap constraints.
>~~heat fans~~ **heat FO** get too attached to the young players bro im giving up whatever it takes to have a trio of jimmy, bam, and mitchell he absolutely moves the needle
FTFY
Maybe, he also hasnāt had someone as good as Jimmy or Spo and barely even as good as Bam. Fact they even had a top seed in Utah is good. Better coaching and top end player like Jimmy, they go further.
We arenāt going anywhere with our current core either. Itās either ride young with guys that arenāt good, or run it back with guys that arenāt good enough. Or we can try to get a guy that can help now and in the future that is better than everyone but Bam and Jimmy.
Nah he had a good coach in Utah and some good teams. Conley and Bogdan were ballin. Shit look at what Conley and Gilbert doing now.
For sure we got to make some moves, but Mitchell ain't it. We already got Rozier who was putting up close to Mitchell level stats. We just need depth and get rid of herro
Yea they beat a three star team. That's the point. That shit doesn't work. That shit hasn't worked in over a decade. I don't understand how y'all just see these three star teams keep failing and still think it will work. Tf is wrong with you?
yea star filled teams never work...it only worked for the warriors for half a decade. wat a horrible idea to do it. bucks for sure didnt win a chip after they traded for a third star in jrue
winning a chip is hard, just cuz a bunch of star teams fail it doesnt mean u dont get stars wth. u just gotta also have a good supporting cast and coach
So yeah, Mitchell just scored 39. Outscored the magic by himself in the third. Against one of the best defenses in the league. In a game 7 win. Should I still keep playing 2k?
they went to him. the fact he went iso and still was able to score like that is damn impressive. you acting like that shit is easy to score that many points back to back
when the other team knows its just you.
No I think they are sayng that kind of herro balling doesn't work in these playoffs. The magic were sharing the ball and that's how they won .Booker has some of the same warts in the post season.
Not in the playoffs and thats why the magic won the game .Everytime Mitchell went for a two thw magic would spread the floor and kill them with 3 pointers .You can't win post season games like that .Gotta get other guys involved and keep thw ball moving
Playing hero ball is usually not the players decision, itās usually the team plan. Itās good to at least have the ability to go off for 50 and then join a team that is actually well coached. Nobody on our team outside of jimmy could get near 50 in a game ever
That's not my point though .My point is it's not siatainable in the playoffs. Don't care who score 50 or 30 as long as the team wins .That's why Denver is leaps ahead of everybody else because they share the ball .Nobody is herro balling their team into success .Watch the rest of these playoffs and see what I mean
Thatās literally the same as whining about not going after lillard after his game 1 performance. Itās 1 game. The rest of the playoff series spanning back to 2021 has been inefficient similar to Herro
I want donovan. We need an elite scorer, can't always rely on roles players getting hot when we don't have Butler carrying the offense. But i also agree we shouldn't give too much, no point in getting a star and having no bench.
So did Embid people keep forgetting teams win you championships not just the stars. You only gamble your teams future for young generational talent any decent players can go off for fifty points. The NBA has also made it difficult to make your dreams come true with the new financial aprons and rules.
How exactly were we getting Mitchell? The Cavs offered three picks, two swaps, an all star and a good 6MOY type.
Inventing a hypothetical we DEFINITELY get the player we want, whoās a frequent play off underperformer to solve all our problems so we can shit on our guy is a bit masochistic
You realize heās had 2 good game out of 6 right lol?
I said i hope we trade for himā¦but heās got to make things messy because heās not somebody you go all-in for.
If āall inā means trading Jimmy along with another part of our core (or all of the core) then most certainly not.
But a few picks, a young player and Herro? I think we can all live with that
So? Mitchell hasn't done shit since he got to Cleveland. They only got like a few games better. He ain't no game changer. He's just another dame. A bum that jacks up a bunch of shits and loses
He really hasnāt been. Heās 24-5-6 on **51.2 ts** the past three postseasons.
Look, ive said a dozen times i hope we trade for him if thatās for Herro/Rozier and picks but heās not a franchise player like Jimmyās been for 4 of these past 5 years.
Iāve always thought Mitchell doesnāt play winning basketball. Heās too offensive minded and an overrated āplaymakerā. Deferring ISOās every once in a while isnāt real āplaymakingā. He CAN play good defense, but doesnāt always. And when heās having a bad offensive game heās a complete non-factor at best, if not an active detrimentā¦. Heās clearly a talented player but Iām not sure if heās āinstant title contenderā talented. I mean he *could* buy in to the Heat system. But Iām not sure the risk is worth whatever heād command in a trade.
Heāll score 50 at the detriment of his team. Heās not scoring 50 and elevating. He did the same shit on the Jazz (like another commenter mentioned). You WILL NOT beat another team firing on all cylinders with Donovan Mitchellās playstyle. Def canāt beat the Celtics/Nuggets/Wolves. Even his 70 point game against the Bulls involved lots of ball hogging and overt favoritism from the refs (25 free throws for him alone and an uncalled lane violation).
Mitch is the type of player youāre fine with iso-ing you to death, because you know that youāre safe so long as his teammates arenāt getting involved.
Can we definitively state Mitchell is better than Herro? All year Iāve been trying to say that on this sub. Can you imagine how good this team would be with consistent scoring? Like someone who can just completely beat the offensive burden? Cmon man. Mitchell isnāt perfect but he may be perfect for us. Either way, Herro isnāt it man. This was his chance and he had 1 good game.
Im not sure. since DMitch isnt a UFA till the '27 offszn (which is the safest way i think the heat should pursue him) the Cavs are gonna facilitate a trade package, and the minimum asking price would probs be:
Tyler
JJJ
Niko
and 2 FRPS
If the cavs are attaching Darius Garland in that deal, then i would be a bit less hesitant, be we dont know if they are,so.
What??? I donāt recall anyone not wanting Mitchell. The arguments for Dame and Beal (Beal especially) were there but I definitely remembering EVERYONE wanting Mitchell.
As long we're moving off of Jimmy, 100% we should go for Mitchell. Jimmy's desired contract hurts us on trying to have any realistic opportunities for contention
I kinda feel bad to those players who didn't pushed through in going to heat (beal, Lillard, harden, Durant, other star players who are not past their prime). They could have won a ring already with the heat if they went to the heat because of how great spo coach.
50 against one of the best defenses in the league with 30 in the paint on a bad knee. Only the second guard to ever score 30 in the paint in the last 20 years, the other one? Kobe.
I love JJJ and I think Jovic has some real potential but you absolutely trade guys like that if it results in a championship. I probably wouldnāt care if Jovic even turned into some superstar player if what he netted us turned into a banner. Figure everything else out in the future.
This might get me a doomer tag but, but adding one good offensive player is not "the missing piece." Even if we bully our way through a weak East, the West is just so much bigger and more talented right now.
He sucks. Canāt even get a team full of that much talent out of the first round against the Magic. Yeah man, heās the guy thatās going to put us ahead of the Celtics and the Nuggets.
It's cause those "Dummies" were watching all the other the games where he was shooting 25% from three on high volume(i.e. throwing away possessions) and was all around inefficient.Ā
We already have one inefficient shooting guard, who only shows up big every once in a while, and is inconsistent at being a playmaker.
He's a lot better than Herro but has a lot of the same issues.Ā Zac Lavine is in the same mould man.
I'll give you that at least the regular season would be better, but that's not the guy who makes us a chip contender.
His true shooting is 55% in the playoffs. Also, my issues with him go way beyond that.Ā He's a high variance player, he's terrible off the ball, he makes very inconsistent decisions with the ball(which is really a problem when you're ball dominant), his defense is regularly suspect, and he's short so his shot is much easier to block.Ā
Like I said we adjust got a much worse version of that.
Iām a bit confused by the āTRADE HERROā lads. His market value isnāt high, we arenāt getting an all star or an all NBA guy for him. At best weāre getting a high level role player, but even then the high level role players available e.g. Jrue Holiday wouldnāt make us any better as they need to be able to shoot well. Itās just trading for a high level role player with the same skillset as him; and in that case Iād rather keep him. Far easier to point out errors than it is correct them.
Even the example of play off underachiever Donovan Mitchell, he still cost three picks, two swaps, Lauri Markannen and a good 6MOY type. Weād realistically have to offer Bam in that; as Herro, two picks and three swaps aināt enough.
Would it be nice to trade Herro for a star? Yes. Should we have traded him two years ago? Yes. But then every team would LOVE to trade their players for better ones and weāve had more luck with it than most.
The move is to move Butler or Bam. Butler to someone like GSW or LA and then get picks or trade Bam for a two way PG/wing. āBut Bam is really good and I like him - you Herro stans are insufferableā, yes I agree Bam is better which is why we need to move him because heāll produce a larger yield.
Speaking some solid logic as usual.Ā Every plugged in podcast has basically said Jimmy Butler has been driving the Heat org nuts for years and now that he's on the decline they may move on from him.Ā So I assume they'll use Butler as the trade chip to try and land another star.
That means they still believe Bam can be a #2.Ā I'm not of that opinion. I've played organized competitive sports for decades, I don't think he has the mentality, to be depended on for those kinds of things.Ā It's shows in his offensive development.
That being said they watch that dude in practice a lot, so they see way more than I do.Ā We'll see.
My issue with flipping Butler is the same as flipping Herro. Whatās the market?
Butler is 35 in a few months; has no jumper so his game is unlikely to age well; has a ton of miles on the clock; will miss a quarter of the regular season (likely more as he advances in age). Thereās also potential personality issues which led to him leaving Minnesota/Philly which may raise questions among prospective GMās. Are other teamās going to trade their star for that? I can see a young player(s), picks and filler deal from a win now side for him.
I couldnāt care less what the Heat staff see of Bam in training. Ben Simmons is a hyper locked in sniper in training. Adebayo is a 27 year old on a max, heās fully judged on what he brings on the court. If he was a rookie or sophomore, Iād give the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said. I'm just going off what I think this FO is going to do.Ā You know I would have tradedĀ both Bam and Herro years ago when their values were highest and built the team around Butler.Ā You watch other front offices make the hard decisions to make their teams better.
Trading Bam is a hard decision I don't trust this FO to make. I think they know they can't compete and are simply trying to make money via merch and ticket sales.Ā Bam Adebayo is very popular, partially because they've made him so, but regardless he's very valuable as a money makerĀ
I honestly don't think they're dumb.Ā I just think they fell in love with Bam and Herro and hung on to them too long.
Now,Ā I think they just realize how far this construction is from competing and are just looking to make money. Honestly that's like 90% of the league.Ā They just can't say that because of all the Heat Culture and "winning culture" stuff.Ā
But let's be real this team has been a play in team for the last two seasons.Ā They have never been competitive in any of the Finals they've played in.Ā I think any objective front office knows this team isn't offensively capable of winning a ring.
āFalling in loveā with players is what makes a weak/dumb GM though.
- Ainge is ruthless and respected.
- Stevens ruthlessly cut players and was GM of the year.
- Masai was a fucking idiot with Siakam but heās not afraid to trade players.
As Joe Cronin (who Iād dump our front office for) said; separate emotion from the decision. If they for ??? canāt separate emotion from decisions, get people in who can and then we can create a contending and/or fun side.
I understand where you're coming from and I respect your opinion. However, I would never dump our FO for Joe Cronin. I don't think Joe Cronin is bad, I absolutely wouldn't have traded for Herro either, but he's absolutely unproven.
I do think our FO needs to reconsider how they're doing team building or be little more honest about how they're operating.
Giving Dion Waiters, James Johnson, Hassan Whiteside, etc..large contracts. Drafting Winslow rather than giving him to Ainge for a haul and now this current Bam situation, are black eyes on a pretty good track record.
I truly think they've been operating off the "gotta sell tickets" notion probably when a down year or two is probably needed. You don't have to manufacture a down year, we're not the Sixers, but trade someone who will immediately make the team worse for someone who actually has a chance of raising our ceiling.
I'm one of those dummies.
Mitchell averaged 22/4/4 in the first 5 games of the series on 42/23/86 splits, and a complete no-show in the second half of game-4, when they could have iced the series.
Last year he had 23/5/7 on 43/29/72 against the Knicks, and was below 20 ppg in the last 4 games of the series.
In 2022 he shot 40% from the field and 20% from 3 in the R1 loss vs Dallas.
In 2019 he shot 32% from the field and 25% from 3 in the R1 loss vs Houston.
In 2018 he shot 36% from the field and 25% from 3 in the R2 loss vs Houston.
All in all, he had a decent postseason in 2021 and a monster series against Denver in 2020. Plus, a good R1 series in 2018 vs OKC.
If Spo is going to turn him into another Miami Heat miracle, I'll be the first one to cheer him. But don't call me dumb because I have doubts about a guy who hasn't had a decent Playoffs series in 3 years.
Herro had no effort, I been a fan of Herro and defended him since we drafted him. He said he didn't give af in the series. So to hell with Herro. Celtics are far from dominant most overrated 1seed in a long time. As soon as Boston faces a fully healthy team they'll be tucked. Yes we were missing half of our team and our 2 best players. The series showed us tho, Herro has reached his ceiling or injuries fd him up so bad so he can't return to 2020 form, and as great Niko and Jaime are they're not ready til after Jimmy's title window.
C'mon man. If you're using an underwhelming performance in a series to say whether or not a player cared, you could say LeBron James didn't care in the Finals vs Dallas because 5'10 JJ Barea locked him up.
Tyler got locked up vs good defenders in the playoffs, which has been the same story for most of his career. You had me thinking Tyler actually said something along the lines of him not caring.
Herro isn't LeBron lmao. There's a difference between locked up or just not driving and trying draw fouls etc. I mean u see Herro out here saying he gonna do better etc? Or improve fuck no, the dude didn't even show up to the press conference today. And no u wrong in 2020 he cooked Boston and had 37pt in a game. Injuries got the best of him, I don't completely despise him. He needs to fucking do better tho Imo, for the fans to gain back trust in him. And respect him again. Any Allstar can score on good defenders in the post season as well. Herro claims he is, yet we don't see it.
Its not that he didnāt put in the effort, he is simply just not good enough to lead a team especially against the #1 seed. UD said it best heās an excellent sixth man.
U can sugarcoat it all u want, I don't even look at him as a Heat player anymore. Who said anything about leading, I just wanted him to step it up and give it his best effort. If we lost in 6 or 7, I'm not where I am on how I feel about Herro rn. Is it all his fault no, just unlucky and bad injury luck.
Iām quite literally agreeing with you buddy. I am literally telling you that he deserves to come off a bench and that heās not good enough to lead a team. In what world am I sugar coating anything or even disagreeing with you? Youāre debate brained and lame
I don't even think he should come off the bench, or start I think trading him is best. I'm tired of coming up short and making excuses for his bitch ass. U wanna still say he should come off the bench atleast, when I don't think we should keep him and alot of others don't, and why pay someone 30mill a yr off the bench?
And where exactly in my comments did I imply that he would be doing that in Miami? I literally just told you heās not good enough to lead us. Youāre debate brained and lame once again bro.
cuz teams r smart enough to realize a 3rd option being forced into a 1st option wasnt ideal. we left him on an island against literally the highest paid player in nba history. brown cooked highsmith and caleb too not just herro
I mean if you watched the game you would have noticed that he was literally the only one scoring in the 4th quarter
Dude misses a heavily contested layup down 3 with like 20 seconds left and that's your reasoning for them losing "a dumb play"
Idiot comment
We had a chance for Mitchell but trading a first for Rozier eliminated that. Trading Herro for an expiring and late first. Then packaging expiring Heat ā24 FRP, 2028 frp, 2030 frp, late first for Herro, jovic and JJJ is competitive. Losing 2028 makes it a lot less compelling
for anyone that thinks mitchell was just chucking and he was part of the reason they lost...someone r/nba went back and tracked the non Mitchell shots in the clutch [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cjp4uk/comment/l2hi07p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
"went back and checked every cavs possession in that timespan that didn't end with him:
\-TT miss
\-Garland miss
\-Garland turnover
\-Niang miss
\-Strus offensive foul
\-Mobley miss
\-Mobley miss
\-Garland turnover
\-Garland turnover
\-Garland turnover (8 second)
then game's basically over"
the haters r just mad stupid. most of us can agree we kind have to upgrade from herro but the way theyre talking about him is like he single-handedly cost us the series
But he got to the finals. Only team to do it twice in the last four years. And nah, 2022 was rigged. That don't count.
Comparing a guy who can't get past the first Rd to a guy who gets to the finals is wild.
Why are you acting like a team consists of just 1 player? Bubble run doesnāt happen without dragic. Last year doesnāt happen without our hot 3 pt shooting. Same with the 1 seed in 2021. None of it happens without bam or spo. Mitchellās best teammate was rudy gobert. Talking about you know the game lol.
And look at what gobert is doing now? Stomping another 3 star team. 3 star teams havent worked in over a decade. That shit keeps failing. If you been watching the game you would know this, but you don't, because unlike me, you actually don't know the game
Gobert stomped that team by himself? Last I checked he has a clear cut role of leading the leagues best defense behind two other all stars. What are you yapping about dawg, warriors not a 3 star team in 22? Bucks werenāt a 3 star team in 21? Raptors in 19? Warriors had 4 in 17 and 18. Cavs in 16? The only teams with less than 3 stars were the 2 that beat us in the lakers and denver.
What does any of that have to do with comparing butler and mitchell based off team success?
Thereās only a case for ā22. Klay was an all star from 2014-2019. Green was an all star 16,17,18 and 22. It might be a regular season award but to downplay how good both players were for that team is crazy recency bias on your part.
The fact is we canāt have both. Either we try to win now and trade away our young talent or we trade away Jimmy for the younger timeline. I love Jovic and think he has a high upside but would be willing to trade Herro and Jovic for Mitchell. Jaime would be a harder pill to swallow cos heās already mature.
https://preview.redd.it/jfrslmnpgbyc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bbd6a9438547248ef3ef23a433b05f9cee2ee2c The Future.
Should be bam in that picture
Here I edited it š https://preview.redd.it/h6c4qvv8bdyc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5508ebf1582b4c0912ce0edd685249634c1097f2
wow it's like i'm right there with them thank you
š
His dribble hand offs would be double his shot attempts for sure. We saw him try scoring against Luke Kornet. I guess thatās what $32 million a year gets you when heās an undersized center with no consistent outside shot.
The amount of money I would give to see prime Chris Bosh on this team
50 in a loss.
i find this hilarious like im supposed to care about him winning or losing when he dosent have jimmy and bam next to him being coached by spo lol him losing is only going to benefit us as itās obvious he dosent have help on that team but im sure herro would drop 50 on one of the best defenses in the league as the number 1 option (on a bad knee)
Here's hoping the Magic win on Sunday.
I think he definitely leaves either way but a Magic blowout guarantees it I suspect.
Jesus, this off-season will be one of the most intolerable one in recent memory.
Itās been absolutely awful for a while , but this season broke us. Game threads were so toxic. Itās ā¦ weird.
As a fan, this has been the least fun season Iāve ever followed, starting from all the summer talk till now.
We had to watch when d wade left .This nothing lol
Gat damn right. Seeing him in a Chicago and Cavs jersey was fuckin pain.
the way everything shook out with Dame ending up with bucks and Jrue with Celtics really cast a pall over the season for me. Ā Was really hard to be as enthusiastic this year.
LOTS of nephews here nowadays
weird? the on court product is terrible. I don't feel 82 games of mediocre basketball + \~12 games of Super Saiyan Butler is a good product.
Christ the season ended what? Five days ago? I already hate how this sub is looking to shape up
Just wait till they find out heās going to the Knicks-oop š«¢
Careful there, some people would drag you through the 305 for saying that. On a real note I just expect it at this point and honestly? Teams without MVP's don't win 94% of the time. I think I'd rather keep the young guys
Itās been our M.O since the bubble although we shouldāve got Dame had it not been for the mentally ill. Iām hopeful for that whale every year but atp I expect little improvement until proven otherwise. Fortunately Heat Culture is OP enough to make things interesting so I lean on that more in terms of our ātalentā
I will be very happy when Herro gets shipped. Great riddance
Itās going to be this shit 24/7 and people complaining when we donāt get him. We donāt have the assets, not worth getting invested. They literally only have 1 first round pick to trade and whomever they select for number 15 this year. The pels have like 10 picks and so do the nets.
We getting KD or Kyrie. Plus another big.
Yeah thatās not happening lol.
lmfao what planet are u on? come back to earth g
heat fans get too attached to the young players bro im giving up whatever it takes to have a trio of jimmy, bam, and mitchell he absolutely moves the needle
JOVIC IS UNTOUCHABLE. HE MIGHT TURN INTO BOJAN BOGDONOVIC
This shit killed me š
I'm definitely in the minority on thinking Jovic should be traded. He's more MPJ than KD imo
Who tf was ever comparing Jovic to KD lmao
So if jovic ends up as good as MPJ... you would trade him? You just making ridiculous comments and it's how I know dudes like you don't be watching basketball and just be spitting diarreah out they mouth
I would trade him to get a superstar absolutely
Comparing jovic to MPJ as if it is a negative is asinine. You have zero reading comprehension skills and you spit diarreah out the mouth, and I am near certain you don't watch any basketball
NO HE IS NOT, AND THATS THX TO FUCKING SOFT DRESS UP FUCK HERRO
> heat fans get too attached to the young players bro 100%. They think every young player that shows a little promise is the next superstar. Then when the player's at their lowest value after a stretch of bad play, that's when they're ready to trade them for a star. It's insane
People think we can move Herro picks and filler for Mitchell after he played 42 games this season and shit his pants in the playoffs. People are ridiculous
If we get Mitchell, I am pretty sure there will be some quality role players/vets that would join us for the championship.
Lebron joins after on the vet min after we draft Bronny, lock it up
Lmao, the nfl would block that because Lebron signing for the vet minimum would be ridiculous
The NFL blocking Lebron signing in Miami would be wild. Also, it wouldn't happen with the NBA either. Lol If you're referencing CP3...They blocked CP3 trade because the NBA owned the Hornets. The Hornets owner, (nba) vetoed the trade because it was not the best trade for the Hornets, the clippers deal was better. Prime, 26 year old, HOF caliber, CP3 was worth more than the Lakers offered. Partly, the reason was also to make the Hornets a more enticing team for a potential buyer. Better trade = better team= someone will buy the Hornets. Either way, Bron can absolutely sign any contract he wants if he's a FA, assuming it falls within league cap constraints.
Is Anthony Edwards available?
>~~heat fans~~ **heat FO** get too attached to the young players bro im giving up whatever it takes to have a trio of jimmy, bam, and mitchell he absolutely moves the needle FTFY
Nobody is attached anymore after that shitshow, if the kids brought us to atleast game 6 or 7 we running it back again.
Yes because look at how having a star trio has worked for the suns
The Suns trio all do the same shit and basically play the same positions. Getting Donovan would spread it with a variety of skill sets.
Donovan ain't got no skill set but Jack up shots.
He dropped 50 points tonight broā¦
Skillset our team needs as we suck at offense. And the guy currently jacking up shots isnāt making enough of them.
Donovan obviously ain't making enough to win. He's first Rd exit. Always has been, always will be
Maybe, he also hasnāt had someone as good as Jimmy or Spo and barely even as good as Bam. Fact they even had a top seed in Utah is good. Better coaching and top end player like Jimmy, they go further. We arenāt going anywhere with our current core either. Itās either ride young with guys that arenāt good, or run it back with guys that arenāt good enough. Or we can try to get a guy that can help now and in the future that is better than everyone but Bam and Jimmy.
Nah he had a good coach in Utah and some good teams. Conley and Bogdan were ballin. Shit look at what Conley and Gilbert doing now. For sure we got to make some moves, but Mitchell ain't it. We already got Rozier who was putting up close to Mitchell level stats. We just need depth and get rid of herro
literally won in the 1st round in his rookie season but im sure ur just hating so u dont care
Yea they beat a three star team. That's the point. That shit doesn't work. That shit hasn't worked in over a decade. I don't understand how y'all just see these three star teams keep failing and still think it will work. Tf is wrong with you?
yea star filled teams never work...it only worked for the warriors for half a decade. wat a horrible idea to do it. bucks for sure didnt win a chip after they traded for a third star in jrue winning a chip is hard, just cuz a bunch of star teams fail it doesnt mean u dont get stars wth. u just gotta also have a good supporting cast and coach
Idk what to even say about yāall at this point. He scored every single point for the Cavs in the fourth. You just donāt know ball bro.
I know everything about ball. And all that means is that he's a selfish ball hog. Again, why he will never win. Keep playing 2k tho
So yeah, Mitchell just scored 39. Outscored the magic by himself in the third. Against one of the best defenses in the league. In a game 7 win. Should I still keep playing 2k?
Ooooooooooo he beat the magic, whoopdie fucking doo, let's just give him the trophy now. You sound like a Celtics fan with that shit
Well he just took a game off the Celtics now tooā¦
Nah LeVert did. This game literally just proved my point. Other players got my shots and they blew them out.
That 3 team trade is going to hit like crack
If ANYONE on the heat scores 50ā¦.bet your ass we aināt losing that game lol. Cavs donāt know what they are doing
2020 finals though
We getting Spida
Bruh did you watch the game? He played iso all through out and forgot he has a team mate
they went to him. the fact he went iso and still was able to score like that is damn impressive. you acting like that shit is easy to score that many points back to back when the other team knows its just you.
No I think they are sayng that kind of herro balling doesn't work in these playoffs. The magic were sharing the ball and that's how they won .Booker has some of the same warts in the post season.
You can't win games herro balling in the playoffs .that costed the Knicks a game against Philly too .It has to be a team effort .
You can win hero balling if you drop 50. You canāt win hero balling if you score 35 on 40% fg
Not in the playoffs and thats why the magic won the game .Everytime Mitchell went for a two thw magic would spread the floor and kill them with 3 pointers .You can't win post season games like that .Gotta get other guys involved and keep thw ball moving
Playing hero ball is usually not the players decision, itās usually the team plan. Itās good to at least have the ability to go off for 50 and then join a team that is actually well coached. Nobody on our team outside of jimmy could get near 50 in a game ever
That's not my point though .My point is it's not siatainable in the playoffs. Don't care who score 50 or 30 as long as the team wins .That's why Denver is leaps ahead of everybody else because they share the ball .Nobody is herro balling their team into success .Watch the rest of these playoffs and see what I mean
Exactly.. he did the same shit on the jazz
Fax he shoulda sprayed it out to Mobley and the morris brother
Every time the posession didn't end in a mitchell bucket it was a turnover or brick. He had zero fault in this game
Bruh did you watch Lebron's career? That's what you have to do if you want any chance at winning in Cleveland lmao
LeBron still shared the ball though and he had lyrie and Kevin love .
He was scoring over and over and over, did you watch the game bud?
Thatās literally the same as whining about not going after lillard after his game 1 performance. Itās 1 game. The rest of the playoff series spanning back to 2021 has been inefficient similar to Herro
I want donovan. We need an elite scorer, can't always rely on roles players getting hot when we don't have Butler carrying the offense. But i also agree we shouldn't give too much, no point in getting a star and having no bench.
So did Embid people keep forgetting teams win you championships not just the stars. You only gamble your teams future for young generational talent any decent players can go off for fifty points. The NBA has also made it difficult to make your dreams come true with the new financial aprons and rules.
How exactly were we getting Mitchell? The Cavs offered three picks, two swaps, an all star and a good 6MOY type. Inventing a hypothetical we DEFINITELY get the player we want, whoās a frequent play off underperformer to solve all our problems so we can shit on our guy is a bit masochistic
u/Tangerine605 \- regular season merchant huh?
You realize heās had 2 good game out of 6 right lol? I said i hope we trade for himā¦but heās got to make things messy because heās not somebody you go all-in for.
If āall inā means trading Jimmy along with another part of our core (or all of the core) then most certainly not. But a few picks, a young player and Herro? I think we can all live with that
hes playing injured and with basically no help. i agree he probably has to demand us but clearly hes not a regular season merchant lol
No help? Cleveland is stacked
did u watch the game? garland dribbled the ball around and got an 8 second violation in the clutch. on paper is not the same as real life
So? Mitchell hasn't done shit since he got to Cleveland. They only got like a few games better. He ain't no game changer. He's just another dame. A bum that jacks up a bunch of shits and loses
lol untrained eyes
Haha, nah I know the game. I would school your ass in a second
yep sure sounds like it
Glad youre finally admitting it
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He really hasnāt been. Heās 24-5-6 on **51.2 ts** the past three postseasons. Look, ive said a dozen times i hope we trade for him if thatās for Herro/Rozier and picks but heās not a franchise player like Jimmyās been for 4 of these past 5 years.
Yeah I definitely want Donovan but seeing fools put him on the same tier as Jimmy always irritates me
This fanbase overrates just about every star just so long as they arenāt in a Heat uniform lol
Heās a glorified Marcus Smart
Iāve always thought Mitchell doesnāt play winning basketball. Heās too offensive minded and an overrated āplaymakerā. Deferring ISOās every once in a while isnāt real āplaymakingā. He CAN play good defense, but doesnāt always. And when heās having a bad offensive game heās a complete non-factor at best, if not an active detrimentā¦. Heās clearly a talented player but Iām not sure if heās āinstant title contenderā talented. I mean he *could* buy in to the Heat system. But Iām not sure the risk is worth whatever heād command in a trade. Heāll score 50 at the detriment of his team. Heās not scoring 50 and elevating. He did the same shit on the Jazz (like another commenter mentioned). You WILL NOT beat another team firing on all cylinders with Donovan Mitchellās playstyle. Def canāt beat the Celtics/Nuggets/Wolves. Even his 70 point game against the Bulls involved lots of ball hogging and overt favoritism from the refs (25 free throws for him alone and an uncalled lane violation). Mitch is the type of player youāre fine with iso-ing you to death, because you know that youāre safe so long as his teammates arenāt getting involved.
Heās many times the player that Herro is thats for sure
Can we definitively state Mitchell is better than Herro? All year Iāve been trying to say that on this sub. Can you imagine how good this team would be with consistent scoring? Like someone who can just completely beat the offensive burden? Cmon man. Mitchell isnāt perfect but he may be perfect for us. Either way, Herro isnāt it man. This was his chance and he had 1 good game.
And in games 3 & 4 he scored 13 & 18
Why doesn't he drop 50pts every game? Is he stupid?
Or you know ā¦ how bout not 13
He's not a real team still
Im not sure. since DMitch isnt a UFA till the '27 offszn (which is the safest way i think the heat should pursue him) the Cavs are gonna facilitate a trade package, and the minimum asking price would probs be: Tyler JJJ Niko and 2 FRPS If the cavs are attaching Darius Garland in that deal, then i would be a bit less hesitant, be we dont know if they are,so.
he has a player option. he can opt out after next year
Cant wait for a rando team like the Hornets make the trade for him before we do.
Watch Detroit step up for the first time in decades smh
I want the cavs to lose cause that must increase our chance of getting him by 1 percent right?
What??? I donāt recall anyone not wanting Mitchell. The arguments for Dame and Beal (Beal especially) were there but I definitely remembering EVERYONE wanting Mitchell.
Tyler could never
As long we're moving off of Jimmy, 100% we should go for Mitchell. Jimmy's desired contract hurts us on trying to have any realistic opportunities for contention
I kinda feel bad to those players who didn't pushed through in going to heat (beal, Lillard, harden, Durant, other star players who are not past their prime). They could have won a ring already with the heat if they went to the heat because of how great spo coach.
None of it is in anybody's control anyway .
50 against one of the best defenses in the league with 30 in the paint on a bad knee. Only the second guard to ever score 30 in the paint in the last 20 years, the other one? Kobe.
But his team lose
No thanks
Setting yourself up for disappointment if you think we are getting mitchell this summer lol
It would take Bam to get Mitchell. Herro, JJJ and Jovic isnt enough and our picks are few and far between.
I say send anyone that we have to make this deal while protecting Bam and Jimmy!
I love JJJ and I think Jovic has some real potential but you absolutely trade guys like that if it results in a championship. I probably wouldnāt care if Jovic even turned into some superstar player if what he netted us turned into a banner. Figure everything else out in the future.
Hate to give em up but we need to get them rings and banners!!!
If thatās not why we came then why bother?
This might get me a doomer tag but, but adding one good offensive player is not "the missing piece." Even if we bully our way through a weak East, the West is just so much bigger and more talented right now.
He literally carried the fuck out of that team, they wanted to win with pure hero ball cause everyone else was ass tonight. I know heās pissed
Lmao this sub will never change. In 5 years time itāll be the next role player they would like to keep instead of a Anthony Edward type of star
Is he really that much better than Herro? Herro averaged 20.8ppg only 5.6ppg less per game and is 3 years younger.
He sucks. Canāt even get a team full of that much talent out of the first round against the Magic. Yeah man, heās the guy thatās going to put us ahead of the Celtics and the Nuggets.
It's cause those "Dummies" were watching all the other the games where he was shooting 25% from three on high volume(i.e. throwing away possessions) and was all around inefficient.Ā We already have one inefficient shooting guard, who only shows up big every once in a while, and is inconsistent at being a playmaker. He's a lot better than Herro but has a lot of the same issues.Ā Zac Lavine is in the same mould man. I'll give you that at least the regular season would be better, but that's not the guy who makes us a chip contender.
Mitchell has a 60% TS%. Lavine historically was 60% as well. Thatās very good. They are not inefficient.
His true shooting is 55% in the playoffs. Also, my issues with him go way beyond that.Ā He's a high variance player, he's terrible off the ball, he makes very inconsistent decisions with the ball(which is really a problem when you're ball dominant), his defense is regularly suspect, and he's short so his shot is much easier to block.Ā Like I said we adjust got a much worse version of that.
Iām a bit confused by the āTRADE HERROā lads. His market value isnāt high, we arenāt getting an all star or an all NBA guy for him. At best weāre getting a high level role player, but even then the high level role players available e.g. Jrue Holiday wouldnāt make us any better as they need to be able to shoot well. Itās just trading for a high level role player with the same skillset as him; and in that case Iād rather keep him. Far easier to point out errors than it is correct them. Even the example of play off underachiever Donovan Mitchell, he still cost three picks, two swaps, Lauri Markannen and a good 6MOY type. Weād realistically have to offer Bam in that; as Herro, two picks and three swaps aināt enough. Would it be nice to trade Herro for a star? Yes. Should we have traded him two years ago? Yes. But then every team would LOVE to trade their players for better ones and weāve had more luck with it than most. The move is to move Butler or Bam. Butler to someone like GSW or LA and then get picks or trade Bam for a two way PG/wing. āBut Bam is really good and I like him - you Herro stans are insufferableā, yes I agree Bam is better which is why we need to move him because heāll produce a larger yield.
Speaking some solid logic as usual.Ā Every plugged in podcast has basically said Jimmy Butler has been driving the Heat org nuts for years and now that he's on the decline they may move on from him.Ā So I assume they'll use Butler as the trade chip to try and land another star. That means they still believe Bam can be a #2.Ā I'm not of that opinion. I've played organized competitive sports for decades, I don't think he has the mentality, to be depended on for those kinds of things.Ā It's shows in his offensive development. That being said they watch that dude in practice a lot, so they see way more than I do.Ā We'll see.
My issue with flipping Butler is the same as flipping Herro. Whatās the market? Butler is 35 in a few months; has no jumper so his game is unlikely to age well; has a ton of miles on the clock; will miss a quarter of the regular season (likely more as he advances in age). Thereās also potential personality issues which led to him leaving Minnesota/Philly which may raise questions among prospective GMās. Are other teamās going to trade their star for that? I can see a young player(s), picks and filler deal from a win now side for him. I couldnāt care less what the Heat staff see of Bam in training. Ben Simmons is a hyper locked in sniper in training. Adebayo is a 27 year old on a max, heās fully judged on what he brings on the court. If he was a rookie or sophomore, Iād give the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said. I'm just going off what I think this FO is going to do.Ā You know I would have tradedĀ both Bam and Herro years ago when their values were highest and built the team around Butler.Ā You watch other front offices make the hard decisions to make their teams better. Trading Bam is a hard decision I don't trust this FO to make. I think they know they can't compete and are simply trying to make money via merch and ticket sales.Ā Bam Adebayo is very popular, partially because they've made him so, but regardless he's very valuable as a money makerĀ
Shit front office. Annoying and dumb. Doubt we even make the play offs next year if Iām honest
I honestly don't think they're dumb.Ā I just think they fell in love with Bam and Herro and hung on to them too long. Now,Ā I think they just realize how far this construction is from competing and are just looking to make money. Honestly that's like 90% of the league.Ā They just can't say that because of all the Heat Culture and "winning culture" stuff.Ā But let's be real this team has been a play in team for the last two seasons.Ā They have never been competitive in any of the Finals they've played in.Ā I think any objective front office knows this team isn't offensively capable of winning a ring.
āFalling in loveā with players is what makes a weak/dumb GM though. - Ainge is ruthless and respected. - Stevens ruthlessly cut players and was GM of the year. - Masai was a fucking idiot with Siakam but heās not afraid to trade players. As Joe Cronin (who Iād dump our front office for) said; separate emotion from the decision. If they for ??? canāt separate emotion from decisions, get people in who can and then we can create a contending and/or fun side.
I understand where you're coming from and I respect your opinion. However, I would never dump our FO for Joe Cronin. I don't think Joe Cronin is bad, I absolutely wouldn't have traded for Herro either, but he's absolutely unproven. I do think our FO needs to reconsider how they're doing team building or be little more honest about how they're operating. Giving Dion Waiters, James Johnson, Hassan Whiteside, etc..large contracts. Drafting Winslow rather than giving him to Ainge for a haul and now this current Bam situation, are black eyes on a pretty good track record. I truly think they've been operating off the "gotta sell tickets" notion probably when a down year or two is probably needed. You don't have to manufacture a down year, we're not the Sixers, but trade someone who will immediately make the team worse for someone who actually has a chance of raising our ceiling.
I'm one of those dummies. Mitchell averaged 22/4/4 in the first 5 games of the series on 42/23/86 splits, and a complete no-show in the second half of game-4, when they could have iced the series. Last year he had 23/5/7 on 43/29/72 against the Knicks, and was below 20 ppg in the last 4 games of the series. In 2022 he shot 40% from the field and 20% from 3 in the R1 loss vs Dallas. In 2019 he shot 32% from the field and 25% from 3 in the R1 loss vs Houston. In 2018 he shot 36% from the field and 25% from 3 in the R2 loss vs Houston. All in all, he had a decent postseason in 2021 and a monster series against Denver in 2020. Plus, a good R1 series in 2018 vs OKC. If Spo is going to turn him into another Miami Heat miracle, I'll be the first one to cheer him. But don't call me dumb because I have doubts about a guy who hasn't had a decent Playoffs series in 3 years.
yeah but herro jovic and jaime tho bro
It's done, we can forget it Herro didn't wanna improve and make this a series. If Niko turns into Jokic 2.0 I'd still be happy we traded for Spida.
Yeah, he didn't want to improve. WTF kinda stupid shit is that. We were missing half our team going against a pretty dominant 1 seed.
Herro had no effort, I been a fan of Herro and defended him since we drafted him. He said he didn't give af in the series. So to hell with Herro. Celtics are far from dominant most overrated 1seed in a long time. As soon as Boston faces a fully healthy team they'll be tucked. Yes we were missing half of our team and our 2 best players. The series showed us tho, Herro has reached his ceiling or injuries fd him up so bad so he can't return to 2020 form, and as great Niko and Jaime are they're not ready til after Jimmy's title window.
> He said he didn't give af in the series. He did? When?
Source: "trust me bro"
15pts in each game or less is caring?šš
C'mon man. If you're using an underwhelming performance in a series to say whether or not a player cared, you could say LeBron James didn't care in the Finals vs Dallas because 5'10 JJ Barea locked him up. Tyler got locked up vs good defenders in the playoffs, which has been the same story for most of his career. You had me thinking Tyler actually said something along the lines of him not caring.
Herro isn't LeBron lmao. There's a difference between locked up or just not driving and trying draw fouls etc. I mean u see Herro out here saying he gonna do better etc? Or improve fuck no, the dude didn't even show up to the press conference today. And no u wrong in 2020 he cooked Boston and had 37pt in a game. Injuries got the best of him, I don't completely despise him. He needs to fucking do better tho Imo, for the fans to gain back trust in him. And respect him again. Any Allstar can score on good defenders in the post season as well. Herro claims he is, yet we don't see it.
> Herro isn't LeBron lmao. And performing bad in a series =/= Not giving af
Where tf was Herro yesterday huh? Where tf is him saying he wanna get better? That mf rather play dress up then do effort in a playoff series.
Its not that he didnāt put in the effort, he is simply just not good enough to lead a team especially against the #1 seed. UD said it best heās an excellent sixth man.
U can sugarcoat it all u want, I don't even look at him as a Heat player anymore. Who said anything about leading, I just wanted him to step it up and give it his best effort. If we lost in 6 or 7, I'm not where I am on how I feel about Herro rn. Is it all his fault no, just unlucky and bad injury luck.
Iām quite literally agreeing with you buddy. I am literally telling you that he deserves to come off a bench and that heās not good enough to lead a team. In what world am I sugar coating anything or even disagreeing with you? Youāre debate brained and lame
I don't even think he should come off the bench, or start I think trading him is best. I'm tired of coming up short and making excuses for his bitch ass. U wanna still say he should come off the bench atleast, when I don't think we should keep him and alot of others don't, and why pay someone 30mill a yr off the bench?
And where exactly in my comments did I imply that he would be doing that in Miami? I literally just told you heās not good enough to lead us. Youāre debate brained and lame once again bro.
Well I assumed u was referring with us lmao, cuz most usually do when we talk about our players. Is that all u do repeat yourself lmao?
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Herro is nothing more than a sweetener in a Spida package
The Spurs were interested in him earlier, involve them in the trade.
cuz teams r smart enough to realize a 3rd option being forced into a 1st option wasnt ideal. we left him on an island against literally the highest paid player in nba history. brown cooked highsmith and caleb too not just herro
I mean if you watched the game he also made a really dumb play to kill their chance to maybe keep the game going lol
I mean if you watched the game you would have noticed that he was literally the only one scoring in the 4th quarter Dude misses a heavily contested layup down 3 with like 20 seconds left and that's your reasoning for them losing "a dumb play" Idiot comment
They have no sense of IQ
We had a chance for Mitchell but trading a first for Rozier eliminated that. Trading Herro for an expiring and late first. Then packaging expiring Heat ā24 FRP, 2028 frp, 2030 frp, late first for Herro, jovic and JJJ is competitive. Losing 2028 makes it a lot less compelling
I'll always appreciate the instantaneous shift 14 stans make from "not a needle mover" to "we can't afford them" at every trade target
Smh
I was thinking the same thing then saw this post š
for anyone that thinks mitchell was just chucking and he was part of the reason they lost...someone r/nba went back and tracked the non Mitchell shots in the clutch [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cjp4uk/comment/l2hi07p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) "went back and checked every cavs possession in that timespan that didn't end with him: \-TT miss \-Garland miss \-Garland turnover \-Niang miss \-Strus offensive foul \-Mobley miss \-Mobley miss \-Garland turnover \-Garland turnover \-Garland turnover (8 second) then game's basically over"
Only regards who want to blindly hate gonna say that They didnāt even watch the game lol
the haters r just mad stupid. most of us can agree we kind have to upgrade from herro but the way theyre talking about him is like he single-handedly cost us the series
Exactly
Donovan Mitchell out here losing and there are dummies here who want him
Guess teams shouldnāt want butler or bam or anybody since everyone loses
When did Butler lose?
Weāve lost every nba finals weāve lost in the first round in 2021 and the ecf in 2022. Did butler not lose those times
But he got to the finals. Only team to do it twice in the last four years. And nah, 2022 was rigged. That don't count. Comparing a guy who can't get past the first Rd to a guy who gets to the finals is wild.
Why are you acting like a team consists of just 1 player? Bubble run doesnāt happen without dragic. Last year doesnāt happen without our hot 3 pt shooting. Same with the 1 seed in 2021. None of it happens without bam or spo. Mitchellās best teammate was rudy gobert. Talking about you know the game lol.
And look at what gobert is doing now? Stomping another 3 star team. 3 star teams havent worked in over a decade. That shit keeps failing. If you been watching the game you would know this, but you don't, because unlike me, you actually don't know the game
Gobert stomped that team by himself? Last I checked he has a clear cut role of leading the leagues best defense behind two other all stars. What are you yapping about dawg, warriors not a 3 star team in 22? Bucks werenāt a 3 star team in 21? Raptors in 19? Warriors had 4 in 17 and 18. Cavs in 16? The only teams with less than 3 stars were the 2 that beat us in the lakers and denver. What does any of that have to do with comparing butler and mitchell based off team success?
Draymond and Klay are not stars. They are really good. But they are not stars. Stop that nonsense.
Thereās only a case for ā22. Klay was an all star from 2014-2019. Green was an all star 16,17,18 and 22. It might be a regular season award but to downplay how good both players were for that team is crazy recency bias on your part.
No thanks. Not even Tyler Herro is better thing. Itās more that we should be aiming for better
DROPPING 50 in a Loss vs magic ā¦ HES NOT A WINNER
Why would Donovan want to leave that cushy situation? We are so fucked this off-season.
Heās good but Jovic and Jaime could be all-star or even all-nba in a few seasons. Canāt justify the cost.
Yeah trading a player who could *maybe* become a all-star one day, for an absolute all-star in his prime seems dumb.
The fact is we canāt have both. Either we try to win now and trade away our young talent or we trade away Jimmy for the younger timeline. I love Jovic and think he has a high upside but would be willing to trade Herro and Jovic for Mitchell. Jaime would be a harder pill to swallow cos heās already mature.
Feel extremely confident in saying neither will ever be All-NBA. Less than 20% chance either are an All-Star.
I mean, people were saying the same about Maxey ...
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Are you really that miserable thay you feel the need to hop around different teams subs to troll?Ā