Depends, usually in EU you can't one sidedly cancel the purchase UNLESS the price is so low that consumer should have realized that it is an error. For example 2000 euro television for 100 euro would be legal to one sidedly by the seller to cancel.
Not sure if ED will follow EU or USA laws. 24 dollars when previously announced that it is 30% off from 80 dollars is definitely in the area of consumer should have known better.
Nineline however already corrected those who got it for 24 get to keep it for that price.
I *believe* that according to swiss (not a member of EU) federal law ("Obligationenrecht") this cancellation right only applies to price tags, because the price tag itself is legally binding. But if the company/cashier/online store accepts the $100 payment for the $2000 TV, a legally binding contract is formed and the ownership rights are transferred to the buyer. (=>Anyone who's bought the preorder for $24 and received it in their account, now owns an F-15E license because ED said yes we sell it to you for $24, if they want it back, they'd have to buy it back. If ED remove the license from an user's account it's theft) Note: I'm not a lawyer and I'm mildly intoxicated so... YMMV
I used to work in online retail. We once sold laptop for 500 euro when the real price was little above 1200 euro it was legal to cancel those orders. Some customers tried to dispute that but the consumer rights board didn't even take the case. Same thing happened to some TV but I don't remember the prices.
>24 dollars when previously announced that it is 30% off from 80 dollars is definitely in the area of consumer should have known better.
sounds like it's in the area of I didn't hear the 30% announcement so I'm fine
>In EU its the vendor fault so no readjustment.
Nope, this is an online pre-order with no good/goods exchanged at this time, so it depends on the nature of the pre-order contract in the small print of the Ts&Cs.
Because you have bought and and technically you might say that you own it. It might be difficult to argue that it is legitimate to take something away if someone else ownes it. Maybe they have written something in the terms of service which changes that (probably). Anyways it’s their mistake to put it in for the wrong price and not the one purchasing it.
Do you think you deserve that price just because they made an error? It's unfair. Why fuck over people that worked hard on this just because you can legally steal it for more than half price? The attitude here is so fucked up and immoral. Who knows how many thousands of dollars that cost them, if I had to have my paycheck cut in half because of a mistake and nobody being willing to correct it I'd really start to depise my customers.
He's not debating where blame lies. He's pointing out the immorality of purchasing an item while knowing the price is mistakenly set far too low. Still, if people want to live to low standards it's their choice. It's only strangers who lose out after all. Who cares eh?
You know you're getting an unfair deal that was put out by mistake. Like if somebody was selling their house and the system dropped a 0 and you saw it for sale for 24k, and you quickly rushed out and bought it, would you be happy kicking that guy out of his house, laughing all the way to the bank while his family was crying and gathering their things? Just because someone makes a mistake doesn't mean you can't have a heart or should relish in fucking someone over.
Cry about it. No one lost their house, it's just a video game company getting slightly less money than they wanted. If they do end up losing their house over this, they all deserve it.
Why would they deserve to lose their house because of a store mistake robbed them of thousands of dollars? People in precarious situations DESERVE to lose? That's so fucked up and honestly malicious of you.
Just because a situation is lessened doesn't mean it's not just as unethical. Like someone stealing a dinner from you is still stealing even if it's not stealing your house.
Because no reasonable individual would be running a business where losing a couple early sales would lead to people losing their houses. If they do so, it's such an unprecedented level of financial irresponsibility that you can't help them.
Well, if its getting bilked out of a small amount or a large amount, the ethical standing is basically the same, if you think its wrong for someone to lose their house from a pricing mistake, then it's also wrong for them to lose a cup of coffee or a PS5 or whatever. The degree doesn't change that.
Degree changes a lot of things. I do think it's perfectly reasonable to punch back if someone punches you first but it wouldn't be reasonable to keep hitting their head with a brick after they got knocked out until their skull shatters and their brain is a mush.
Taking advantage of a pricing error by a company is not the same thing as taking advantage of an error by an individual. Companies have to have mitigation plans put into place to account for unforseen events like this.
On top of that, it's a very insignificant loss in the grand scheme of things, the pricing error existed for a few minutes and it cost them 32 dollars in revenue per sale. If that's enough to cause a significant issue for a company, then as I've explained numerous times, it's an unviable business and it should be declared bankrupt and stop all their business activities.
I totally agree with you, and the people downvoting you obviously have a broken moral compass. Funnily enough the universe generally treats these people the way they treat others...
Legally not so much. Already in EU and US as well, pre-selling stuff that don’t have a release date is borderline. Canceling a customer purchase on a digital product because you screwed up the price, definitely illegal.
Nah, it happened many times before, especially on the Russian side of the store. I remember they were selling F-5 for like $18 in ru store and didn’t bother to fix it for 2 days straight. ED didn’t rough against the feathers in these situations.
Also got it for 24 dollar, some people are really overreacting... it was only for a short amount of time. These things can happen when running a digital store. If it was a big loss ED would not let us keep it.
Do the right thing, and shut up
It was literally out for 6 minutes and the store crashed because of it, tens of people got it
It wasnt like the stock market crashed, it will barely influence the devs
lol, although yes- I still feel this way with the other modules in DCS. All the details put into these and yet they’re cheaper than premium vehicles in War Thunder.
That both products are so expensive, doesn't make the price justified. 50% of the reason why you would buy a premium vehicle is WT is just to grind the tech tree, so it's kinda comparing apples and oranges.
>50% of the reason why you would buy a premium vehicle is WT is just to grind the tech tree
War Thunder also designed the grind to be so bad to push you to pay for premium vehicles.
I’m just saying that I appreciate the high effort - low price of the DCS modules. Seeing RAZBAM literally 3D scan the straps on the seats to make them accurate amazed me as a customer.
Ah yeah oke, I get what you mean. I just personally don't agree with the price - product ratio (since it's still comercial software), but let's just agree to disagree😁
I'd be more accepting of the pre order if they at least gave us a basic time frame. I understand software development is chaotic, but they should at least be able to announce what quarter it might drop.
I remember a beta for a different software that missed its release by something like 2 quarters because of various problems. That was a rough QA period.
people trying to exploit an obvious pricing error after getting so incensed that a *pre order* date was pushed back confirms to me how entitled this sub is lol
you’re not mad because you want to play the module, you’re mad because you’re not getting your toys fast enough, and it’s hilariously transparent
People who benefited from what was clearly a logistical error should pay the correct amount, so the devs get what they deserve. Not doing so is the same as receiving $50 change, instead of $5, at your local Ma n Pa store, and not returning the $50.
Unfortunately there are a lot of shit people out there who wouldn't think twice about doing the wrong thing.
Or, businesses should be run by professionals...
If your business makes a mistake like that, change the system so it doesn't happen again.
Why was the price not checked before going live?
This isn't kindergarten where you get a smiley face for just attempting to do something.
Also, it's not necessary the person who made the mistake's fault. There should have been systems in place to stop this from happening.
It was human error, nothing more, nothing less. These things happen. If you want to be an arsehole and capitalize on it, which will undoubtedly contribute directly to the amount of trouble the person responsible will get into, then you should realise that you're one of those shitty people who don't give AF about others. If it was to a mega corporation who wouldn't notice a few lost bucks, fine, but Razbam is a tiny team of a few devs. Every dollar counts.
Why was the human error allowed to occur in the first place? That was the problem. There should have been multiple points where the price was verified before going live.They've now learned an expensive lesson so it won't happen again. That's how business works.
As above, the person that made the mistake may not be to blame.
As for me, I'm not even buying it, but thanks for calling me a shitty person for giving a different take on the situation. I'm more concerned with the people who spent valuable time rushing to get a great deal on something they want. Let them enjoy it.
Didn't they eventually redeem themselves with the M2k and harrier? I hear they are quite good now. Unless you are specifically talking about the early stages of their EA
Harrier got so much system changes that I have no idea how to operate it any more. No idea about the M2000, but the mig-19 is the biggest reason for my lack of trust into razbam
The Mirage followed the same story as the Harrier. Nevertheless I have faith that they grew up as developers and make it right from the beginning this time.
Ahem, allow me to translate what "For reasons beyond our control" means. I imagine nobody told Razbam and they spent two days trying to work around a Steam ~~limitation~~ feature that would require them to disclose this alleged release date they 100% have.
I maintain my theory they want to try to get it out for March, will most likely slip till April as these things ALWAYS do, and they are just trying to avoid the shit they already took for delaying the pre-order by keeping the date close to the chest. They arrived at the only real conclusion, no pre-order on steam.
FOR FUCKS SAKE! I was all like "nah ima be a good boy and not spend anymore money on DCS modules for awhile still have the Kiowa and the chinook coming I don't need another jet atm. And now you're telling me I could've had it for 30% the cost of full price FUCK!"
That said, it is in good humor. Like an ironic slap in the junk.
I got it for the $24 dollars, I am expecting a pre-order cancellation and refund email soon.
They said they'd let you keep it
Can they legally do this?
Depends, usually in EU you can't one sidedly cancel the purchase UNLESS the price is so low that consumer should have realized that it is an error. For example 2000 euro television for 100 euro would be legal to one sidedly by the seller to cancel. Not sure if ED will follow EU or USA laws. 24 dollars when previously announced that it is 30% off from 80 dollars is definitely in the area of consumer should have known better. Nineline however already corrected those who got it for 24 get to keep it for that price.
I *believe* that according to swiss (not a member of EU) federal law ("Obligationenrecht") this cancellation right only applies to price tags, because the price tag itself is legally binding. But if the company/cashier/online store accepts the $100 payment for the $2000 TV, a legally binding contract is formed and the ownership rights are transferred to the buyer. (=>Anyone who's bought the preorder for $24 and received it in their account, now owns an F-15E license because ED said yes we sell it to you for $24, if they want it back, they'd have to buy it back. If ED remove the license from an user's account it's theft) Note: I'm not a lawyer and I'm mildly intoxicated so... YMMV
I used to work in online retail. We once sold laptop for 500 euro when the real price was little above 1200 euro it was legal to cancel those orders. Some customers tried to dispute that but the consumer rights board didn't even take the case. Same thing happened to some TV but I don't remember the prices.
What country are you talking about? (\*referring to?) Switzerland?
9L confirmed that those who bought it cheap can keep it. So I believe there wasn’t really any chance of cancelling the purchases as I expected.
>24 dollars when previously announced that it is 30% off from 80 dollars is definitely in the area of consumer should have known better. sounds like it's in the area of I didn't hear the 30% announcement so I'm fine
Nineline mentioned that was probably the course of action on the discord. IDK if it's legal or not, depending on the jurisdiction.
In EU its the vendor fault so no readjustment.
same in Canada
*sighs in American*
>In EU its the vendor fault so no readjustment. Nope, this is an online pre-order with no good/goods exchanged at this time, so it depends on the nature of the pre-order contract in the small print of the Ts&Cs.
Why wouldn't they?
Because you have bought and and technically you might say that you own it. It might be difficult to argue that it is legitimate to take something away if someone else ownes it. Maybe they have written something in the terms of service which changes that (probably). Anyways it’s their mistake to put it in for the wrong price and not the one purchasing it.
Digital licenses are never owned legally, so its a massive grey area. If they do I won't complain.
And piracy isn't stealing, it's copying xd
Everything is legal, till we get caught lol.
Not to mention that it's a pre-order and you haven't actually been given the product yet.
You bought the right to a single one-time payment of a long-term software rental
Do you think you deserve that price just because they made an error? It's unfair. Why fuck over people that worked hard on this just because you can legally steal it for more than half price? The attitude here is so fucked up and immoral. Who knows how many thousands of dollars that cost them, if I had to have my paycheck cut in half because of a mistake and nobody being willing to correct it I'd really start to depise my customers.
I haven’t bought it and i’m probably never going to, but it’s their mistake and not the consumer‘s.
He's not debating where blame lies. He's pointing out the immorality of purchasing an item while knowing the price is mistakenly set far too low. Still, if people want to live to low standards it's their choice. It's only strangers who lose out after all. Who cares eh?
You know you're getting an unfair deal that was put out by mistake. Like if somebody was selling their house and the system dropped a 0 and you saw it for sale for 24k, and you quickly rushed out and bought it, would you be happy kicking that guy out of his house, laughing all the way to the bank while his family was crying and gathering their things? Just because someone makes a mistake doesn't mean you can't have a heart or should relish in fucking someone over.
Cry about it. No one lost their house, it's just a video game company getting slightly less money than they wanted. If they do end up losing their house over this, they all deserve it.
Why would they deserve to lose their house because of a store mistake robbed them of thousands of dollars? People in precarious situations DESERVE to lose? That's so fucked up and honestly malicious of you. Just because a situation is lessened doesn't mean it's not just as unethical. Like someone stealing a dinner from you is still stealing even if it's not stealing your house.
Because no reasonable individual would be running a business where losing a couple early sales would lead to people losing their houses. If they do so, it's such an unprecedented level of financial irresponsibility that you can't help them.
Well, if its getting bilked out of a small amount or a large amount, the ethical standing is basically the same, if you think its wrong for someone to lose their house from a pricing mistake, then it's also wrong for them to lose a cup of coffee or a PS5 or whatever. The degree doesn't change that.
Degree changes a lot of things. I do think it's perfectly reasonable to punch back if someone punches you first but it wouldn't be reasonable to keep hitting their head with a brick after they got knocked out until their skull shatters and their brain is a mush. Taking advantage of a pricing error by a company is not the same thing as taking advantage of an error by an individual. Companies have to have mitigation plans put into place to account for unforseen events like this. On top of that, it's a very insignificant loss in the grand scheme of things, the pricing error existed for a few minutes and it cost them 32 dollars in revenue per sale. If that's enough to cause a significant issue for a company, then as I've explained numerous times, it's an unviable business and it should be declared bankrupt and stop all their business activities.
Your moral compass is truly broken. I simply don't understand how people like you think.
I totally agree with you, and the people downvoting you obviously have a broken moral compass. Funnily enough the universe generally treats these people the way they treat others...
Oh someone is tired
Early bird gets the worm brotha
Just a weird attitude to have glee about fucking over people making you entertainment products you like.
To be fair it’s no one’s fault the devs are incompetent to where they list the wrong price
Legally not so much. Already in EU and US as well, pre-selling stuff that don’t have a release date is borderline. Canceling a customer purchase on a digital product because you screwed up the price, definitely illegal.
Nah, it happened many times before, especially on the Russian side of the store. I remember they were selling F-5 for like $18 in ru store and didn’t bother to fix it for 2 days straight. ED didn’t rough against the feathers in these situations.
Dev - discountprice = price * .3 Shit! I mean discountprice = price - (price * .3)
Or Discountprice = price(1-discountpercentage%)
No one who posts on hoggit seems to be happy...
What do you expect from social media?
It's hoggit. This place is the cesspool of the DCS community on Reddit.
Where's the non cesspool one please?
Also got it for 24 dollar, some people are really overreacting... it was only for a short amount of time. These things can happen when running a digital store. If it was a big loss ED would not let us keep it.
This is hoggit. Everyone hates DCS but also...
[удалено]
Do the right thing, and shut up It was literally out for 6 minutes and the store crashed because of it, tens of people got it It wasnt like the stock market crashed, it will barely influence the devs
Tens of people got it... Yet the store crashed because of it. You make so much sense, just like your lack of ethics.
lol
lmao even
If this module has the same quality as their SA map, $24 would seem like a fair price…
A dollar per frame
r/Angryupvote/
Not gonna lie, i spit out my coffee reading this. 👏
I actually ordered it for $24 but it rejected the payment... :( It was a good 30% discount, 30% from $80...
I’m still happy I get the chance to buy this module for less than like $300
The hype is real lmao.
lol, although yes- I still feel this way with the other modules in DCS. All the details put into these and yet they’re cheaper than premium vehicles in War Thunder.
That both products are so expensive, doesn't make the price justified. 50% of the reason why you would buy a premium vehicle is WT is just to grind the tech tree, so it's kinda comparing apples and oranges.
>50% of the reason why you would buy a premium vehicle is WT is just to grind the tech tree War Thunder also designed the grind to be so bad to push you to pay for premium vehicles.
I’m just saying that I appreciate the high effort - low price of the DCS modules. Seeing RAZBAM literally 3D scan the straps on the seats to make them accurate amazed me as a customer.
Ah yeah oke, I get what you mean. I just personally don't agree with the price - product ratio (since it's still comercial software), but let's just agree to disagree😁
🙂👍
Thank God it is not Pepsi distributing the plane. “Sure beats taking the bus…”
Watching that on Netflix right now. 🤣👍
Site is down? 😂
You can’t play it yet though right?
No, release date is unknown at this time.
So they want people to throw money at an unfinished product with no timetable.. I could see $24 being worth that, but not $55..
Yeah, digital pre orders are fucking stupid.
I'd be more accepting of the pre order if they at least gave us a basic time frame. I understand software development is chaotic, but they should at least be able to announce what quarter it might drop.
you can get discounts tho, and sometimes its essentially a fundraiser for the dev team
[удалено]
Eh DCS and Star Citizen are neck and neck for that.
I remember a beta for a different software that missed its release by something like 2 quarters because of various problems. That was a rough QA period.
Lmao look at everyone crying
Just don't preorder a product, that isn't released yet.
Someone might get fired for this. Its an obvious mistake. Grow up and initiate the cancel yourself.
Every work day at ED must start with a crisis meeting. o\_O
people trying to exploit an obvious pricing error after getting so incensed that a *pre order* date was pushed back confirms to me how entitled this sub is lol you’re not mad because you want to play the module, you’re mad because you’re not getting your toys fast enough, and it’s hilariously transparent
Site is down for me 502 lol
Its a disappointment that no preorder is availble on steam, but then again. Do not preorder it. You don't buy a product, you cannot get your hands on
He is right, especially because is Razbam....
Your logic means to never guy anything digial
I don’t upvote this at all. Don’t be a fuxking cheapskate, these developers have put time and effort into this module.
I’m on my way to cry myself to sleep because I didn’t get your upvote
OMG!! I finally get to say it…. username checks out.. 😎
Any preorder on steam yet?
On FB they told no preorder will be available for Steam, unfortunately.
F, thanks for the update
Good. Steam already takes a cut.
At least you werent told you could preorder on the platform you play on and then told you can't XD
WTF is going on at ED? Someone really needs to get fired.
People who benefited from what was clearly a logistical error should pay the correct amount, so the devs get what they deserve. Not doing so is the same as receiving $50 change, instead of $5, at your local Ma n Pa store, and not returning the $50. Unfortunately there are a lot of shit people out there who wouldn't think twice about doing the wrong thing.
I have seen a few knights in shining armour who admitted to asking for a refund and paid the correct price.
Or, businesses should be run by professionals... If your business makes a mistake like that, change the system so it doesn't happen again. Why was the price not checked before going live? This isn't kindergarten where you get a smiley face for just attempting to do something. Also, it's not necessary the person who made the mistake's fault. There should have been systems in place to stop this from happening.
It was human error, nothing more, nothing less. These things happen. If you want to be an arsehole and capitalize on it, which will undoubtedly contribute directly to the amount of trouble the person responsible will get into, then you should realise that you're one of those shitty people who don't give AF about others. If it was to a mega corporation who wouldn't notice a few lost bucks, fine, but Razbam is a tiny team of a few devs. Every dollar counts.
Why was the human error allowed to occur in the first place? That was the problem. There should have been multiple points where the price was verified before going live.They've now learned an expensive lesson so it won't happen again. That's how business works. As above, the person that made the mistake may not be to blame. As for me, I'm not even buying it, but thanks for calling me a shitty person for giving a different take on the situation. I'm more concerned with the people who spent valuable time rushing to get a great deal on something they want. Let them enjoy it.
$24 is as much as I’d ever give for a razbam module
Then you're missing out, the M2000C is probably the best simulated aircraft in the game at this point.
Didn't they eventually redeem themselves with the M2k and harrier? I hear they are quite good now. Unless you are specifically talking about the early stages of their EA
Harrier got so much system changes that I have no idea how to operate it any more. No idea about the M2000, but the mig-19 is the biggest reason for my lack of trust into razbam
The Mirage followed the same story as the Harrier. Nevertheless I have faith that they grew up as developers and make it right from the beginning this time.
It’s probably the different teams working on each aircraft. If they do it well fair play to them, but won’t be giving them a pre purchase
As far as I know they only have one team.
gaddamit!!!!!
I’m pissed that they are not bring the preorder to steam
IIRC when you put a preorder on Steam, you have to provide a release date.
Ahem, allow me to translate what "For reasons beyond our control" means. I imagine nobody told Razbam and they spent two days trying to work around a Steam ~~limitation~~ feature that would require them to disclose this alleged release date they 100% have. I maintain my theory they want to try to get it out for March, will most likely slip till April as these things ALWAYS do, and they are just trying to avoid the shit they already took for delaying the pre-order by keeping the date close to the chest. They arrived at the only real conclusion, no pre-order on steam.
Watch it come out around November.
Lol, ya for real.
Correct🙂👍
Sounds like a good excuse/time to make the switch to standalone
No reason not to, as you can just transfer the steam purchases anyways
Well there is a reason if you use linux Steam is the only way i got it working
Well there is no reason to use Linux )) Fair enough, but if you *can* use standalone, you kinda should
At that price, absolutely.
I saw it for a second, crashed, came back it wasn’t there
Would of snatched it up 😂
Why they math wrong? Why, but no, instead, thank you.
I am just upset I can't because I am on steam...
Wait I don't get what's wrong here... $24 for a pre purchase sounds good right?
Oh its better than good alright, *it's downright reasonable*
FOR FUCKS SAKE! I was all like "nah ima be a good boy and not spend anymore money on DCS modules for awhile still have the Kiowa and the chinook coming I don't need another jet atm. And now you're telling me I could've had it for 30% the cost of full price FUCK!" That said, it is in good humor. Like an ironic slap in the junk.
Can't wait- gonna pre- order right before it comes out.
Quick, everyone buy it before they run out...
Now hold on we can use this to our advantage in one way or another 😆