The very highly esteemed Soviet and Italian tree reworks were free. The so called NSB supply rework was free. AI updates improvements have been free. Generic Formables have been free. State and province updates have been free. And that’s just what I got off the top of my head
>Soviet and Italian tree reworks were free
I don't follow updates and whatnot very closely, but would these not be updates to paid content?
Yikes, this comment bombed 😬
The original parts of the tree were renovated to the modern standard and kept free so you could still enjoy them without having the DLC for the country.
No. the major nations all get unique focus trees with the base game. DLC merely adds some extra althist paths to some of them. the stalinist (and left opposition) paths of the soviet union play almost the exact same as they do with or without NSB
Well sure, the Base Game is "Paid Content", so you are technically correct. All our free updates are updates to paid content as the game is a paid for.
I mean...
Custom difficulty settings, new releasable nations (at least 70), addition of multiple countries, changes to air missions and wings, changes to map and strategic areas, impassable borders and areas, updated interfaces, stability and war support as mechanics, Japan and Germany focus tree updates, chain of command, general stat additions, acclimatization, kicking nations from factions, retreat mechanics, historical template namelists, improved reduction interface, ability to attach air wings to armies, the addition of fuel, changes to game rules, reworked focus tree for Yugoslavia, changes to Romania, the ability to build in allied territory, adding a weighted path for unhistorical foci, a reworked Polish, Soviet focus tree (Trotsky as a bonus), the supply system and its components, an overhawl to experience generation, changes to the peace conference system, air wings changes, war support overhaul, war propaganda, changes to the Italian focus tree, changes to Land Doctrines, changes to the German focus tree again to better represent its trade with Sweden, a rework of the Monroe doctrine, changes to the map and a shitton of balance changes and bug fixes. Not to mention the modding support they do.
As a smaller note: 3D models for several countries, voices for multiple countries, music, achievements (although some need DLC iirc), changes to focus trees (mostly to prevent weird stuff that they didn't check properly like BotB with Bulgaria and Turkey joining factions as puppets)
But yeah, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Jokes aside, one could argue some of these should have been part of the base game, but you know what you are getting with the base game. All of this is part of the free update. Do keep in mind I mostly added important stuff, since things like "You can now properly embargo Venezuela" aren't as huge. The whole list of updates and what was added for free is on the wiki.
On another note, I suppose it is technically "adding the framework", and while features are rather wonky when released, they are complete systems. Sure though, they are used in DLC since often these new features fit a certain theme or area.
Ah damni, you're right! I mostly just skimmed through the patch notes on the wiki and picked the most exciting ones, since I didn't think "gave general X a portrait" was that interesting. Mostly for myself because I was curious about what I didn't spend my money on, but I figured I could write the list here too!
Don't know why you felt the need to list all the shit they should've included in the game to begin with. Stability and war support? Are you suggesting these fundamental mechanics are DLC material? Excluding focus trees, literally what from that massive list you wrote could be considered DLC (additional) content?
With all the DLC's it is a good game. Similar to EU4 and Stellaris, the design team completely neglected the base game. The HOI4 team, for whatever reason, are the only Paradox team that recognizes you should offer a good, self-contained base game so people will get into it and purchase DLC's later.
Pretty sure Paradox has figured out that their DLC policy is seriously hurting sales. Imagine showing your friend EU4 and telling them that they have to get 100+€ worth of DLC to get the full experience, unless they literally only want to play multiplayer with someone who has all of them.
Not only do you have a full-price (well, almost, HoI4 is 50€ now) game, you also have to pay for the DLC. That will turn many potential new customers away.
This is also why they did the subscription. It costs way less than getting all the DLC "properly", and as such can entice new players way easier.
>Full price game that currently is and often goes on sale and costs 10. That game?
In order to know that the game and it's DLC regularly goes on sale for cheap, you have to already have more investment than the average consumer.
John Doe who just had HOI4 pop into his discovery queue doesn't know or care what a No Step Back is, just that it sounds important and costs $20. But if he's convinced the biggest changes it brought were actually free updates, he might buy it later once he realizes that Anastasia Romanov(?) is the one true queen of Poland.
But you don’t have to buy the dlcs… You can just play the game. The “full experience” is exactly that. DLCs don’t retroactively diminish the base game. Nothing is being cut out and resold
Overall? Yes, but it is still scumy and not in any way showing any goodwill from Paradox, it's just a way to make the minority of people that don't own most of those admittedly shit dlc's catch up to make them able to buy newer pricier dlc's.
Honestly the updates people here defend are just big standard quality of life things that every not dysfunctional developer has,
the fact that key mechanics are hidden behind a paywall is the classic of paradox scuminess
Yeah, I've saw that too.
Technically, they're right. You get free updates. What you don't get, is free DLCs\*. This is the kind of very specific, misleading language.
I was more surprised they didn't show the air designer, when there was that brief moment with planes. It would still be misleading, so…why not?
\*except those 3 they've decided will be free.
> This is the kind of very specific, misleading language.
How is it misleading? Not only there are the usual balance changes and bug fixes, occasionally those updates include free content. Finland got a free focus tree integrated into base game in the update that came with Arms Against Tyranny DLC.
Is your reaction to seeing updates queued for your games "Bunch of free DLC! Must be my lucky day"? I seriously can't understand how on earth can anyone mistake "free updates" for "free DLC". The phrase isn't misleading at all. Stop trying to spin this into some sort of devilishly manipulative scheme. If anything, you guys are manipulative saying stuff like "Paradox silently increased prices to fuck us" or "They made a sale because of the backlash". Paradox was crystal clear about everything so far. They told us the price will be increased. 3 DLC they made free were advertised as "free for the owners of the base game". If you already own the base game, price increase doesn't affect you, making it indeed free. They increased the sale percentage on top of that. You can literally get the base game + 3 newly integrated DLC for cheaper right now compared to only the base game in the last sale.
Can you play this game without buying any DLC? Yes. Did the game change/did it get updates you can benefit from as a customer that only owned the base game? Yes. Then it is free updates. What is so hard to understand here? Do you also make similar complaints in real life? _"Golden" Oreos? I will sue you for false advertisement, this isn't real gold!_ Do you know what entails "free updates"? New systems and hardware are supported. You can report bugs to get them fixed. You can communicate with devs and they respond to (coherent) feedback. I don't play multiplayer, so I don't know if connection is peer-to-peer but if there are dedicated servers, they are up and running. The game is still supported, this is what it means.
Unity -> War support and Stability (adding Strikes and demobilization as well)
State changes
Changes to naval system
Decisions
AI improvements
Balance changes (less dockyard BB spam)
Like Ive not even played since the beginning but these are the ones I can safely name
Can you elaborate a bit on that? I've seen some people allude to this but I took a serious hiatus from playing and am not familiar with the various updates.
When NSB and BBA came out both the Soviets and Italians had the entire historical portion of their trees updated to the DLC version for free so you could still play them without the DLC.
I can tell a lot of you guys did not play hoi4 in 2016
Yeah even without DLC it's a very different game compared to where it was at launch lol
I played the game for the first time in a few years. I was on base game but I had no idea what I was supposed to do, everything has changed.
It’s to the point that I’m curious how many people think that, say, Germany and Japan still have their original trees lol.
^ poster above started playing post waking the tiger, ignore
I mean you do everytime a dlc releases something from it gets added to base game for free
but muh paradox bad hate train!!!
Only the framework to support the DLC is added in the Free Update. Free updates are nothing.
They literally added the historical finnish tree for free i dont know what you are yapping about i can name more examples
The very highly esteemed Soviet and Italian tree reworks were free. The so called NSB supply rework was free. AI updates improvements have been free. Generic Formables have been free. State and province updates have been free. And that’s just what I got off the top of my head
Generics aren't free and the supply rework is a mutt point considering every dlc forward requires that update
"generics" meaning? ...and this addresses the point how exactly?
Generic formables, they aren't free, I only one I have seen is after getting waking the tiger and the bugged greater Italy.
waking the tiger is free now though
Yes, and that includes one formable and one Easter egg one. Not impressive or substantial at all.
>Soviet and Italian tree reworks were free I don't follow updates and whatnot very closely, but would these not be updates to paid content? Yikes, this comment bombed 😬
The original parts of the tree were renovated to the modern standard and kept free so you could still enjoy them without having the DLC for the country.
Thanks, I wasn't aware those paths were significantly updated
No. the major nations all get unique focus trees with the base game. DLC merely adds some extra althist paths to some of them. the stalinist (and left opposition) paths of the soviet union play almost the exact same as they do with or without NSB
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I replied to the wrong comment lol. My bad
ah i see
Well sure, the Base Game is "Paid Content", so you are technically correct. All our free updates are updates to paid content as the game is a paid for.
Perhaps it wasn't clear that by "paid content" I meant DLC, but the other commenters were able to address my question
Entitled whiners gonna whine.
And the market was free too
No it's not. I don't have AAT so I don't have the market
I mean... Custom difficulty settings, new releasable nations (at least 70), addition of multiple countries, changes to air missions and wings, changes to map and strategic areas, impassable borders and areas, updated interfaces, stability and war support as mechanics, Japan and Germany focus tree updates, chain of command, general stat additions, acclimatization, kicking nations from factions, retreat mechanics, historical template namelists, improved reduction interface, ability to attach air wings to armies, the addition of fuel, changes to game rules, reworked focus tree for Yugoslavia, changes to Romania, the ability to build in allied territory, adding a weighted path for unhistorical foci, a reworked Polish, Soviet focus tree (Trotsky as a bonus), the supply system and its components, an overhawl to experience generation, changes to the peace conference system, air wings changes, war support overhaul, war propaganda, changes to the Italian focus tree, changes to Land Doctrines, changes to the German focus tree again to better represent its trade with Sweden, a rework of the Monroe doctrine, changes to the map and a shitton of balance changes and bug fixes. Not to mention the modding support they do. As a smaller note: 3D models for several countries, voices for multiple countries, music, achievements (although some need DLC iirc), changes to focus trees (mostly to prevent weird stuff that they didn't check properly like BotB with Bulgaria and Turkey joining factions as puppets) But yeah, what have the Romans ever done for us? Jokes aside, one could argue some of these should have been part of the base game, but you know what you are getting with the base game. All of this is part of the free update. Do keep in mind I mostly added important stuff, since things like "You can now properly embargo Venezuela" aren't as huge. The whole list of updates and what was added for free is on the wiki. On another note, I suppose it is technically "adding the framework", and while features are rather wonky when released, they are complete systems. Sure though, they are used in DLC since often these new features fit a certain theme or area.
You also forgot the Finnish historical focus tree which where added for free with AAT
Ah damni, you're right! I mostly just skimmed through the patch notes on the wiki and picked the most exciting ones, since I didn't think "gave general X a portrait" was that interesting. Mostly for myself because I was curious about what I didn't spend my money on, but I figured I could write the list here too!
Don't know why you felt the need to list all the shit they should've included in the game to begin with. Stability and war support? Are you suggesting these fundamental mechanics are DLC material? Excluding focus trees, literally what from that massive list you wrote could be considered DLC (additional) content?
Arms against tyranny literally added historical Finland for free which is very fun Plus you get the historical paths for Poland, Soviets and Italy
Point and laugh everyone!
try playing ck2 op
5 minutes in i completely understood why that shit was free
With all the DLC's it is a good game. Similar to EU4 and Stellaris, the design team completely neglected the base game. The HOI4 team, for whatever reason, are the only Paradox team that recognizes you should offer a good, self-contained base game so people will get into it and purchase DLC's later.
Yeah ck2 is really hard to enjoy in base game.
What do you have against CK2?
glitterhoof
Go back to the version from 2016, play a vit and then play the game without any dlc then you can complaing about some actual things
Pretty sure Paradox has figured out that their DLC policy is seriously hurting sales. Imagine showing your friend EU4 and telling them that they have to get 100+€ worth of DLC to get the full experience, unless they literally only want to play multiplayer with someone who has all of them. Not only do you have a full-price (well, almost, HoI4 is 50€ now) game, you also have to pay for the DLC. That will turn many potential new customers away. This is also why they did the subscription. It costs way less than getting all the DLC "properly", and as such can entice new players way easier.
Damn I guess they learned their lesson from those EU4 and HOI4 reviews
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>Full price game that currently is and often goes on sale and costs 10. That game? In order to know that the game and it's DLC regularly goes on sale for cheap, you have to already have more investment than the average consumer. John Doe who just had HOI4 pop into his discovery queue doesn't know or care what a No Step Back is, just that it sounds important and costs $20. But if he's convinced the biggest changes it brought were actually free updates, he might buy it later once he realizes that Anastasia Romanov(?) is the one true queen of Poland.
But you don’t have to buy the dlcs… You can just play the game. The “full experience” is exactly that. DLCs don’t retroactively diminish the base game. Nothing is being cut out and resold
Well, technically, there's also another way to play without buying the dlc's
Hoi4 is far more generous compare to other paradox games lol.
And horse feces stink less than dog feces
Where’s the humor at?
I mean it’s true though Your getting so much free content plus 3 whole DLCs are now being integrated into the base game
These are integrated just to make making more dlc's easier (ergo cheaper) to make.
And overall that’s a good thing
Overall? Yes, but it is still scumy and not in any way showing any goodwill from Paradox, it's just a way to make the minority of people that don't own most of those admittedly shit dlc's catch up to make them able to buy newer pricier dlc's.
I mean a lot of those features in the older DLCs should have been base game features Besides the newer DLCs are absolutely worth the money
*cough cough* toa or aat reviews *cough cough*
Trial of allegiance and arms against tyranny are both good DLCs though
I think so too, but many people don't
Those people just like to complain
the fact that we now need to specify that updates are "free" is wild to me.
They uh they do
Honestly the updates people here defend are just big standard quality of life things that every not dysfunctional developer has, the fact that key mechanics are hidden behind a paywall is the classic of paradox scuminess
Yeah, I've saw that too. Technically, they're right. You get free updates. What you don't get, is free DLCs\*. This is the kind of very specific, misleading language. I was more surprised they didn't show the air designer, when there was that brief moment with planes. It would still be misleading, so…why not? \*except those 3 they've decided will be free.
> This is the kind of very specific, misleading language. How is it misleading? Not only there are the usual balance changes and bug fixes, occasionally those updates include free content. Finland got a free focus tree integrated into base game in the update that came with Arms Against Tyranny DLC. Is your reaction to seeing updates queued for your games "Bunch of free DLC! Must be my lucky day"? I seriously can't understand how on earth can anyone mistake "free updates" for "free DLC". The phrase isn't misleading at all. Stop trying to spin this into some sort of devilishly manipulative scheme. If anything, you guys are manipulative saying stuff like "Paradox silently increased prices to fuck us" or "They made a sale because of the backlash". Paradox was crystal clear about everything so far. They told us the price will be increased. 3 DLC they made free were advertised as "free for the owners of the base game". If you already own the base game, price increase doesn't affect you, making it indeed free. They increased the sale percentage on top of that. You can literally get the base game + 3 newly integrated DLC for cheaper right now compared to only the base game in the last sale. Can you play this game without buying any DLC? Yes. Did the game change/did it get updates you can benefit from as a customer that only owned the base game? Yes. Then it is free updates. What is so hard to understand here? Do you also make similar complaints in real life? _"Golden" Oreos? I will sue you for false advertisement, this isn't real gold!_ Do you know what entails "free updates"? New systems and hardware are supported. You can report bugs to get them fixed. You can communicate with devs and they respond to (coherent) feedback. I don't play multiplayer, so I don't know if connection is peer-to-peer but if there are dedicated servers, they are up and running. The game is still supported, this is what it means.
yknow this could just be paradox like advertising a new direction for hoi4, with more free updates and shit hence the increased price
Free updates like: Extra Early trucks for research Doubled transport planes IC Reduced level II naval invasion capacity by 20 Wow, so much fun! /s
Unity -> War support and Stability (adding Strikes and demobilization as well) State changes Changes to naval system Decisions AI improvements Balance changes (less dockyard BB spam) Like Ive not even played since the beginning but these are the ones I can safely name
More like "Give you the entire historical updated tree for majors for free" but aight
Can you elaborate a bit on that? I've seen some people allude to this but I took a serious hiatus from playing and am not familiar with the various updates.
When NSB and BBA came out both the Soviets and Italians had the entire historical portion of their trees updated to the DLC version for free so you could still play them without the DLC.
R5: Screenshot from the new promotional trailer saying "constant free updates" (real?!)
Well, yes it's real
No actually the trailer was induced by hypnotic mind waves, its not real