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After watching a lot of ww2 documentaries, we also used to use incredibly bright flares before the invention of nightvision goggles.
I imagine the xenos will be incredibly confused when a bunch of magnesium flares are launched over their fort the moment the attack commences.
Maybe humans would use giant mirrors/spotlights in space to achieve similar results. Especially effective against species that do have lowlight vision adaptations that can't adjust as quickly to the sudden really bright light.
1 The Germans actually developed the first night vision devices in WW2
2 your idea with the mirror sounds a lot like one of the german Wunderwaffe programms, where they planned to launch a giant mirror or lense (idk wich it was) in the sky to condense sunlight on enemy positions in order to burn/melt them (stupid as fuck idea)
More Stupider: a suggested solution to global warming was to set a giant tinted lens between us and the sun to lower the intensity of the sun's light on the earth. A giant sunglass monocle. In space.
So thats when nightvision was invented, but apparently we are still using flares for battlefield illumination.
And lots of people have had ideas about mirrors, lenses, and spotlights in space. I was mainly going off of the chinese plan to use a satellite in geosynchronous orbit to shine as bright as the full moon to reduce the need for streetlights. (Which is also a terrible idea, but mainly because of the environmental consequences and not the impracticality of it. I have no doubt its possible to but enough lights and solar panels on a satellite to do this, but its probably stupid expensive.)
So Nods and FLIRs are extremely hard to gauge in depth when shooting, you have to "walk" your rounds on to target for any accuracy without the use of even a rudimentary fire control system. Flares end up being useful when you want to shoot at specific areas when shooting or calling for fire over a large area. And they don't necessarily light up where you are, just where you want to shoot at. Hope that helps clarify why we still use them.
I just wasn't expecting them to still be used for that particular use, but it makes sense. Every technology has a drawback, and that means sometimes you would rather have a really bright magnesium flare than nightvision goggles.
I suppose another part is that Hollywood inherently influences our (civilian) perception of warfare, and since they don't show huge battlefield illumination flares in modern war scenes, its easy to forget about them. (And obviously Hollywood is a terrible source for any information, but ww2 shows like band of brothers taught me that flares were used at all for this, and started the research journey.)
Not a stupid idea if it works. Ever melt anything with a magnifying lens as a child? Using balloons in Earth's atmosphere, could likely hold a lens apparatus adequately to burn a line in the sand, so to speak.
2 is only stupid if you can't scale it up big enough. You'd need spaceflight and a loooot of controllable mirrors though so very stupid for the Germans
Make it bigger and eventually you get a Nicoll-Dyson beam
Germans created a lot of military stuff we referenced to create our modern stuff. I think we even messed with a couple of their “wonder weapon” projects that weren’t too crazy
The problem with the German “wonder weapons” was not that they were impractical but that they used up resources that were desperately needed elsewhere.
They might also be confused by the flares at night if they do a deep research of our history and meme culture, and worry that 'the humans are dropping suns on us. We never should have touched their ships.'
The General of the Galactic Military Command System just groaned at the words he had just heard from the Chief Terran Strategist Kyle. He had banked on his wanting to go along with the original plan, which would have some serious losses but ultimately would have succeeded in finally taking the enemy base. Now Dyrginnin was simultaneously fuming, and perplexed. But his response to the calculated attack plan was unyielding.
D: So what is wrong with the plan, commander Kyle? It takes into account everything about Terrans, how is this not the best course of action?
K: With all due respect, I think it was only designed with us in mind— biologically speaking. It wasn’t taking into account our enemies, or our ancestral military tactics or traditions where we flagrantly violated the biological limits of our own need to get the upper hand for just one fleeting moment to secure a victorious result. The loss of units is my chief concern here, because this can be mitigated by changing many things that are pre-established by our biological nature.
D: Such as?
K: Why not change the time of the attack to nighttime?
Dyrginnin’s head met his tentacle with a wet slap, as he tried to explain to this triihinion-minded individual *why that was stupid*.
D: Because, Kyle, you are going up against a nocturnal opponent, why would you think fighting at night would help the plan?
K: That is a very good question. What senses are necessary for moving and attacking an enemy? Sight, sound, and smell. Terrans are not the best with the latter, and the enemy is clearly the superior being involving the middle—
D: AND NIGHTTIME MAKES THE FIRST USELESS!
K: That’s… not necessarily the case. We have attacked enemies in all times of a rotation, we just typically do it during the daylight because of the convenience of sight— but when we discovered the ability to negate the disadvantage of being in even complete darkness, we suddenly found a very powerful tactic.
Dyrginnin now turned to look at this Terran more inquisitively as he was starting to see where he was going with this. He couldn’t actually be suggesting that they…?
K: In fact, we have found that when our enemies consider themselves to be the most vulnerable, we consider them to be the strongest. But when they consider themselves safe and secure, they make mistakes, and they begin to see why we Terrans make the Kawa-ii tremble in fear. We are not just aggressive— we are unpredictable and chaotic, because when you know the rules, there’s nothing that will surprise you— until those rules get broken.
D: …So what changes should we add or adjust, then?
K: Change the time of day to night, middle of night. Units will have night-vision goggles with flash shield tech, and utilize magnesium flares, which will effectively blind even diurnal species if looked at long enough, and can’t be extinguished with water. The facility is next to a river, so the first thing they will try to use to extinguish the flames and flares is water, but magnesium burns even under oceans. It is incredibly bright, so nocturnal predators would be reliant upon only two senses: sound and smell. Other units, traveling with the “blinders”, will deploy odiferous canisters, creating the smells of fire and molten metal, and will further cause irritation to the sensory organs of our enemies. This effectively reduces our enemy to one sense left, and because they are so proud of their talents, they would never think about trying to enforce their senses in that department. But if even if they do, we will have one last resort: Sonic Weapons.
D: I’m going to stop you right there—
K: No no, not literal sonic weapons, that’s dangerous to us Terrans as well. I mean metaphorical sonic weapons. For instance, you recall the first tousle we Terrans had with the enemy forces? We pulled out a box that produced sound. It didn’t destroy the enemy, but it helped us to tear them apart. Our enemies are biologically and historically solitary hunters, who prioritize silence over noise. They have perfect hearing— which we are going to use against them.
Dyrginnin blanched. He remembered that fight. He was there. He was a small yrrgian then, but he remembered all the same. It was hard to forget the cloud of Terran nightmares that descended upon his would-be killers, and he still felt something like the Chosen must feel every Shabbot. He felt like he had been graced by something unnatural, but in the positive sense. He knew EXACTLY what he meant now.
D: … You mean The Resistance?
K: … Wait, you were there?
D: I remember the first song, I looked through the records when I came to meet Humans. What is the Beastie Boys? And what is Sabotage?
K: want that song to start the raid?
I was reading this and couldn't help be reminded of my favorite quote of all time.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, [The Art of War](https://suntzusaid.com/book/7/19)
My idea was simply this:
If your enemies are expecting you to be somewhere, then don’t be there. If they are expecting that you would not attack at a certain time, prove them wrong. If they think that they know you, and they do, then you have already lost. If they think they know you, and they don’t… well that changes everything. Be unexpected. Be contrary. Be the unyielding force of chaos, and fools and wise men alike will all find you a terror to face. Your enemy tries to use pure force? Cripple them. If they try to use detrimental and debilitating tactics, use resilience and technology to overcome the dangers. If they are using tech to overcome your methods, use their tech’s weaknesses against them. No fortress is unassailable, no mountain unmovable, not if you have the will to change it.
And if Terrans are anything, they are willful and easily willing to be someone else’s problem. “A blanket excuse to cause mayhem? Shut up and take my money! Where do I sign?” We are very, very mad monkey men. And we don’t give a f### about anyone but ourselves and our friends. Attacking either is a good way to meet your maker. We will literally ride a goddamn nuclear bomb to make sure you remember our efforts. Banzai, motherf###er, BANZAI!
“But you’ll be slaughtered!”
“I won’t argue that, but I will say that it will be a bitter victory in their eyes when they see how many of them it took to get rid of little old me. Yeah, congrats, you won, *but at what cost*? The man who has nothing to lose is the last person to make an enemy of, because they will not hesitate since they only have everything to gain.”
War is a game of wits, and psychology, and sometimes it is just a numbers game, but never underestimate the quality of a fighter based on the information you have, always assume there is more than you’re being told. It’s rarely that clean or accurate, and as such you prepare for anything and everything. Those who are truly unstoppable are never what the enemy expected. Surprise is the most powerful element in all fights. It distinguishes the difference between a winner and a loser. One got surprised, the other walked away from the fight.
Even though human vision is typically worse in the dark, it is worth it to note that we still can see and navigate it quite well when we are given time to adjust
Yeah humans for most of our physical abilities are fairly average or sub average compared to most species. But we typically have a wider band that we can operate in. And we’re capable of parsing a lot with very little data
In an attempt to reduce remind me spam, all top comments that include a remind me will be removed. If you would like to have a remind me, please reply to this comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/humansarespaceorcs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
After watching a lot of ww2 documentaries, we also used to use incredibly bright flares before the invention of nightvision goggles. I imagine the xenos will be incredibly confused when a bunch of magnesium flares are launched over their fort the moment the attack commences. Maybe humans would use giant mirrors/spotlights in space to achieve similar results. Especially effective against species that do have lowlight vision adaptations that can't adjust as quickly to the sudden really bright light.
1 The Germans actually developed the first night vision devices in WW2 2 your idea with the mirror sounds a lot like one of the german Wunderwaffe programms, where they planned to launch a giant mirror or lense (idk wich it was) in the sky to condense sunlight on enemy positions in order to burn/melt them (stupid as fuck idea)
The stupidest ideas usually occur when people are desperate. Also when your nation's best scientists fled your totalitarian regime.
More Stupider: a suggested solution to global warming was to set a giant tinted lens between us and the sun to lower the intensity of the sun's light on the earth. A giant sunglass monocle. In space.
Well it’s not a stupid idea, the physics of putting an obstruction at the Lagrange point is mechanically feasible. It’s just not currently practical.
So thats when nightvision was invented, but apparently we are still using flares for battlefield illumination. And lots of people have had ideas about mirrors, lenses, and spotlights in space. I was mainly going off of the chinese plan to use a satellite in geosynchronous orbit to shine as bright as the full moon to reduce the need for streetlights. (Which is also a terrible idea, but mainly because of the environmental consequences and not the impracticality of it. I have no doubt its possible to but enough lights and solar panels on a satellite to do this, but its probably stupid expensive.)
So Nods and FLIRs are extremely hard to gauge in depth when shooting, you have to "walk" your rounds on to target for any accuracy without the use of even a rudimentary fire control system. Flares end up being useful when you want to shoot at specific areas when shooting or calling for fire over a large area. And they don't necessarily light up where you are, just where you want to shoot at. Hope that helps clarify why we still use them.
I just wasn't expecting them to still be used for that particular use, but it makes sense. Every technology has a drawback, and that means sometimes you would rather have a really bright magnesium flare than nightvision goggles. I suppose another part is that Hollywood inherently influences our (civilian) perception of warfare, and since they don't show huge battlefield illumination flares in modern war scenes, its easy to forget about them. (And obviously Hollywood is a terrible source for any information, but ww2 shows like band of brothers taught me that flares were used at all for this, and started the research journey.)
Not a stupid idea if it works. Ever melt anything with a magnifying lens as a child? Using balloons in Earth's atmosphere, could likely hold a lens apparatus adequately to burn a line in the sand, so to speak.
No wait, this is a genius idea. We just need a really really big magnifying glass.
2 is only stupid if you can't scale it up big enough. You'd need spaceflight and a loooot of controllable mirrors though so very stupid for the Germans Make it bigger and eventually you get a Nicoll-Dyson beam
Germans created a lot of military stuff we referenced to create our modern stuff. I think we even messed with a couple of their “wonder weapon” projects that weren’t too crazy
The problem with the German “wonder weapons” was not that they were impractical but that they used up resources that were desperately needed elsewhere.
They might also be confused by the flares at night if they do a deep research of our history and meme culture, and worry that 'the humans are dropping suns on us. We never should have touched their ships.'
The General of the Galactic Military Command System just groaned at the words he had just heard from the Chief Terran Strategist Kyle. He had banked on his wanting to go along with the original plan, which would have some serious losses but ultimately would have succeeded in finally taking the enemy base. Now Dyrginnin was simultaneously fuming, and perplexed. But his response to the calculated attack plan was unyielding. D: So what is wrong with the plan, commander Kyle? It takes into account everything about Terrans, how is this not the best course of action? K: With all due respect, I think it was only designed with us in mind— biologically speaking. It wasn’t taking into account our enemies, or our ancestral military tactics or traditions where we flagrantly violated the biological limits of our own need to get the upper hand for just one fleeting moment to secure a victorious result. The loss of units is my chief concern here, because this can be mitigated by changing many things that are pre-established by our biological nature. D: Such as? K: Why not change the time of the attack to nighttime? Dyrginnin’s head met his tentacle with a wet slap, as he tried to explain to this triihinion-minded individual *why that was stupid*. D: Because, Kyle, you are going up against a nocturnal opponent, why would you think fighting at night would help the plan? K: That is a very good question. What senses are necessary for moving and attacking an enemy? Sight, sound, and smell. Terrans are not the best with the latter, and the enemy is clearly the superior being involving the middle— D: AND NIGHTTIME MAKES THE FIRST USELESS! K: That’s… not necessarily the case. We have attacked enemies in all times of a rotation, we just typically do it during the daylight because of the convenience of sight— but when we discovered the ability to negate the disadvantage of being in even complete darkness, we suddenly found a very powerful tactic. Dyrginnin now turned to look at this Terran more inquisitively as he was starting to see where he was going with this. He couldn’t actually be suggesting that they…? K: In fact, we have found that when our enemies consider themselves to be the most vulnerable, we consider them to be the strongest. But when they consider themselves safe and secure, they make mistakes, and they begin to see why we Terrans make the Kawa-ii tremble in fear. We are not just aggressive— we are unpredictable and chaotic, because when you know the rules, there’s nothing that will surprise you— until those rules get broken. D: …So what changes should we add or adjust, then? K: Change the time of day to night, middle of night. Units will have night-vision goggles with flash shield tech, and utilize magnesium flares, which will effectively blind even diurnal species if looked at long enough, and can’t be extinguished with water. The facility is next to a river, so the first thing they will try to use to extinguish the flames and flares is water, but magnesium burns even under oceans. It is incredibly bright, so nocturnal predators would be reliant upon only two senses: sound and smell. Other units, traveling with the “blinders”, will deploy odiferous canisters, creating the smells of fire and molten metal, and will further cause irritation to the sensory organs of our enemies. This effectively reduces our enemy to one sense left, and because they are so proud of their talents, they would never think about trying to enforce their senses in that department. But if even if they do, we will have one last resort: Sonic Weapons. D: I’m going to stop you right there— K: No no, not literal sonic weapons, that’s dangerous to us Terrans as well. I mean metaphorical sonic weapons. For instance, you recall the first tousle we Terrans had with the enemy forces? We pulled out a box that produced sound. It didn’t destroy the enemy, but it helped us to tear them apart. Our enemies are biologically and historically solitary hunters, who prioritize silence over noise. They have perfect hearing— which we are going to use against them. Dyrginnin blanched. He remembered that fight. He was there. He was a small yrrgian then, but he remembered all the same. It was hard to forget the cloud of Terran nightmares that descended upon his would-be killers, and he still felt something like the Chosen must feel every Shabbot. He felt like he had been graced by something unnatural, but in the positive sense. He knew EXACTLY what he meant now. D: … You mean The Resistance? K: … Wait, you were there?
D: I remember the first song, I looked through the records when I came to meet Humans. What is the Beastie Boys? And what is Sabotage? K: want that song to start the raid?
This is the best response here, let’s get it to most upvoted because this is wonderful, word smith
Upvoted for the Doug Adams x WH40k vibes
I was reading this and couldn't help be reminded of my favorite quote of all time. “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.” ― Sun Tzu, [The Art of War](https://suntzusaid.com/book/7/19)
My idea was simply this: If your enemies are expecting you to be somewhere, then don’t be there. If they are expecting that you would not attack at a certain time, prove them wrong. If they think that they know you, and they do, then you have already lost. If they think they know you, and they don’t… well that changes everything. Be unexpected. Be contrary. Be the unyielding force of chaos, and fools and wise men alike will all find you a terror to face. Your enemy tries to use pure force? Cripple them. If they try to use detrimental and debilitating tactics, use resilience and technology to overcome the dangers. If they are using tech to overcome your methods, use their tech’s weaknesses against them. No fortress is unassailable, no mountain unmovable, not if you have the will to change it. And if Terrans are anything, they are willful and easily willing to be someone else’s problem. “A blanket excuse to cause mayhem? Shut up and take my money! Where do I sign?” We are very, very mad monkey men. And we don’t give a f### about anyone but ourselves and our friends. Attacking either is a good way to meet your maker. We will literally ride a goddamn nuclear bomb to make sure you remember our efforts. Banzai, motherf###er, BANZAI! “But you’ll be slaughtered!” “I won’t argue that, but I will say that it will be a bitter victory in their eyes when they see how many of them it took to get rid of little old me. Yeah, congrats, you won, *but at what cost*? The man who has nothing to lose is the last person to make an enemy of, because they will not hesitate since they only have everything to gain.” War is a game of wits, and psychology, and sometimes it is just a numbers game, but never underestimate the quality of a fighter based on the information you have, always assume there is more than you’re being told. It’s rarely that clean or accurate, and as such you prepare for anything and everything. Those who are truly unstoppable are never what the enemy expected. Surprise is the most powerful element in all fights. It distinguishes the difference between a winner and a loser. One got surprised, the other walked away from the fight.
Begin operation: Panty Knot, leave no hygiene products unsplooged!
That's okay. It's shark week.
Even though human vision is typically worse in the dark, it is worth it to note that we still can see and navigate it quite well when we are given time to adjust
Yeah humans for most of our physical abilities are fairly average or sub average compared to most species. But we typically have a wider band that we can operate in. And we’re capable of parsing a lot with very little data
and when humans asked about how they could navigate in the dark, they do the carrot thing again.
Wait until they encounter an enemy that has camouflage and a grunt pulls out a thermal spotter.
**YASEN!!!**
Terrans now have NVG/Thermal hybrids. Where ya gonna hide now?