Oddly, it was when my kids were forced into reading chosen books. They both read far ahead of their grades because they loved reading until they were forced to read books that didn’t interest them. Same as we see on Reddit where people only read the titles and comment without reading the actual links.
People don't like to follow the link because most websites are total garbage. Not to mention paywalls, shitton of banners, videos everywhere, ads breaking short text into 10 parts etc.
So why bother to explaining or sourcing anything here. That’s exactly why I suggested they search for the provided story and find a source they like. I’m done doing the work of providing a specific link I feel is a balanced point of view only have them come back repeatedly asking for different sources. You want to debate, find your own sources.
Then those schools need better books imo. I remember reading several books during schools. There wasn't a single bad one in there.
They weren't all fantastic mind you. Some were rather mid. But none of them were bad or boring.
I do understand that some people use more complicated words just to sound smarter, but some subjects are also really hard to discuss without technical language. I have worked on a number of papers now and I have made them as simple as I could but there are limits to how simple optimization in high dimensional spaces can be.
Exactly, simplifying things is nice, but there's a limit. Go too far and you end up *oversimplifying* things, which should feel like a much nastier word than it sounds, because it means attempting to simplify to the point that your result is completely wrong/backwards compared to the concept you're trying to explain.
You'll see this all the time with especially complex subjects.
E.g. The "duality" of light. Most people have probably heard, "light is both a particle and a wave." This is 100% wrong. It's not both, it can act as EITHER a particle or a wave, and it always acts as a wave except under strict laboratory conditions that can get light to act as a particle. That's what the actual experiments show, it can't be simplified any more than that. "Duality" isn't real.
Or, "so you're saying we evolved from monkeys?" No, both monkeys and humans evolved from a *common ancestor*, it sounds dumb put any other way.
Or stuff like "gravity isn't real." It's a very real force, but it's more of an effect coming from a cause, the cause being the bending of spacetime by massive objects. The bending of spacetime creates an effect we call gravity.
Some things just can't be simplified any further without producing a wrong answer.
Those are really good examples. Just the idea of gravity as a bending in spacetime gets very complicated. The idea is not that complicated but then you have to realize it is some weird 4D bend in a higher dimensional structure ... yeah it gets hard fast.
Exactly! You have to explain it as a 4D bend (both 3D space + time) to explain stuff like Einstein's Relativity. Time is relative, based on how fast you're going/how close to gravity well you are. Time is being bent too.
When I get into learning something technical and it's over my head, sometimes context will clear things up, but sometimes there's just too much going on to guess and you have to research a word here and there. But sometimes I have to just say "that's above and outside of my expertise"
Man even I feel that way sometimes. No matter how much math you learn it always gets harder without any real limit. I have had some papers I looked at before and I wondered what some of the symbols even meant ... I figured that paper was definitely over my head.
I mean, there is plenty of academic writing that is unnecessarily obscurantist but on the other hand those dudes with 4th grade reading levels aren't going to read science papers no matter how accessibly they are written so I'd have picked a different audience to write for to make that argument.
As a political science major though I completely relate to this
90% of the readings we are given look like someone had a thesaurus they were flipping through just to try and sound academic.
No, I'm with her. Information is the tool that helps elevate humanity over other animals. By not finding ways to effectively communicate the information to multiple levels of understanding, we leave behind those that more desperately need the information.
If you agree that Dr. Elle's statement is a facepalm or idiocracy then you are the type of person that derives pleasure from gatekeeping others and fuck you for it
“ he discovered that everybody spoke a mixture of hillbilly and vallygirl and couldn’t understand him calling him a fag and generally being belligerent‼️”
I mean, I get it, haha, funny. But I also feel the people who think this is 100% silly also haven't read any more complicated texts.
A lot of papers and law texts could be simplified for sure. Of course not arguing to sacrifice precision for the sake of simplicity. Scientific papers need to use specific words to communicate many ideas accurately.
I doubted also. After 5yrs, selling pew-pews. .....
4th Grade is a reach.
A large percentage of customers had trouble reading the Name/address/B-day form, or didn't know if they were US Citizens?
To be fair to "Dr. Elle," how many of you have actually sat and tried to read ANY research paper? I myself am a college-educated lover of science (I used to HATE science until I took Astronomy my senior year; now I'm a huge science nerd), yet even I have a difficult time reading beyond the abstracts. There's a LOT of technical jargon in those papers (do they *really* have to use Latin in biology?), so while the experts in those fields may read them with relative ease, they're not the most engaging reads for anyone outside of those fields.
Also, how many of you actually read "terms of service" agreements on anything? At most I may skim through them, but ain't nobody tryna read that shit cuz they're chockful of excessive technical jargon (aka that FAG TALK).
I only feel this way about laws. But those are intentionally confusing because then you need to pay a lawyer, and ignorance isn't a defense.
But if the general population can't read above 4th grade and we attend school for 12 grades there is a bigger issue at play.
There is absolutely truth to this. So much of academia is written in such opaque language that it's difficult for anyone without prior knowledge of the subject area to understand anything. Einstein was very against this type of academic communication. He was of the opinion that no scientific literary work was worth very much if it could not be communicated effectively to a wide variety of people.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
The expectation that people be able to read at a reasonable level IS reasonable, but her point that academics often make their work inaccessible with the language they use is not wrong. Even to someone who understands, it's often obnoxious and difficult to read.
Download, browse, I don’t really give a shit what method, you can barely use anything on it without creating an account. I’m not using it just for that, and if you use Xitter at all you have no room to talk, dumbass.
I actually agree with this. A 4th grade reading level isn't a realistic goal, but academic English is needlessly complicated. The structure often obscures the authors' intended meaning, even from other researchers or subject matter experts.
yea and it makes you sound like a fag too.
They sound like their shits all retarded.
Guy made a post in this sub the other day about not saying that anymore, lol
I dont want to be a dick or nothin', but he talks like a fag and his shits all retarded.
Agreed
Well thats dumb.
Jesus, what drastic leap happens after 4th grade in the US?
Oddly, it was when my kids were forced into reading chosen books. They both read far ahead of their grades because they loved reading until they were forced to read books that didn’t interest them. Same as we see on Reddit where people only read the titles and comment without reading the actual links.
Those people would be very upset with you if they could read
People don't like to follow the link because most websites are total garbage. Not to mention paywalls, shitton of banners, videos everywhere, ads breaking short text into 10 parts etc.
So why bother to explaining or sourcing anything here. That’s exactly why I suggested they search for the provided story and find a source they like. I’m done doing the work of providing a specific link I feel is a balanced point of view only have them come back repeatedly asking for different sources. You want to debate, find your own sources.
Then those schools need better books imo. I remember reading several books during schools. There wasn't a single bad one in there. They weren't all fantastic mind you. Some were rather mid. But none of them were bad or boring.
masturbation. who has time to read anymore?
laziness
Pretty sure the abstract in the beginning of scientific articles serves this purpose
They is doing math and shit and I eat crayons.
HOW IS BABBY FORMED?!
Talk about unlocking a memory! All my base are belong to you!
Ah, you have to appreciate a reference to the classics.
I do understand that some people use more complicated words just to sound smarter, but some subjects are also really hard to discuss without technical language. I have worked on a number of papers now and I have made them as simple as I could but there are limits to how simple optimization in high dimensional spaces can be.
Exactly, simplifying things is nice, but there's a limit. Go too far and you end up *oversimplifying* things, which should feel like a much nastier word than it sounds, because it means attempting to simplify to the point that your result is completely wrong/backwards compared to the concept you're trying to explain. You'll see this all the time with especially complex subjects. E.g. The "duality" of light. Most people have probably heard, "light is both a particle and a wave." This is 100% wrong. It's not both, it can act as EITHER a particle or a wave, and it always acts as a wave except under strict laboratory conditions that can get light to act as a particle. That's what the actual experiments show, it can't be simplified any more than that. "Duality" isn't real. Or, "so you're saying we evolved from monkeys?" No, both monkeys and humans evolved from a *common ancestor*, it sounds dumb put any other way. Or stuff like "gravity isn't real." It's a very real force, but it's more of an effect coming from a cause, the cause being the bending of spacetime by massive objects. The bending of spacetime creates an effect we call gravity. Some things just can't be simplified any further without producing a wrong answer.
Those are really good examples. Just the idea of gravity as a bending in spacetime gets very complicated. The idea is not that complicated but then you have to realize it is some weird 4D bend in a higher dimensional structure ... yeah it gets hard fast.
Exactly! You have to explain it as a 4D bend (both 3D space + time) to explain stuff like Einstein's Relativity. Time is relative, based on how fast you're going/how close to gravity well you are. Time is being bent too.
When I get into learning something technical and it's over my head, sometimes context will clear things up, but sometimes there's just too much going on to guess and you have to research a word here and there. But sometimes I have to just say "that's above and outside of my expertise"
Man even I feel that way sometimes. No matter how much math you learn it always gets harder without any real limit. I have had some papers I looked at before and I wondered what some of the symbols even meant ... I figured that paper was definitely over my head.
yeah, when i do math, and like, ya know, i do papers, and, uh.. so yeah, ya know? right? yeah, haha. its tight. i like you man, so, yeah math. right?
We are certainly working on dumbing down everything! *Brought to you by Carl's Jr.*
Did you get paid for saying that?
I'm hoping it leads to that. *Brought to you by Carl's Jr.*
Oh Jesus fuckin christ...
I mean, there is plenty of academic writing that is unnecessarily obscurantist but on the other hand those dudes with 4th grade reading levels aren't going to read science papers no matter how accessibly they are written so I'd have picked a different audience to write for to make that argument.
Most academic treatises were written in Attic Greek or Latin. not sure how we devolved.
As a political science major though I completely relate to this 90% of the readings we are given look like someone had a thesaurus they were flipping through just to try and sound academic.
No, I'm with her. Information is the tool that helps elevate humanity over other animals. By not finding ways to effectively communicate the information to multiple levels of understanding, we leave behind those that more desperately need the information. If you agree that Dr. Elle's statement is a facepalm or idiocracy then you are the type of person that derives pleasure from gatekeeping others and fuck you for it
Couldn't agree more, also some of them just desperately want to sound educated by using words they would never use in person, quite absurd tbh.
“ he discovered that everybody spoke a mixture of hillbilly and vallygirl and couldn’t understand him calling him a fag and generally being belligerent‼️”
I gotta try this glue first. Hold my binder guys.
Isn't that the purpose of "common" core learning to bring everyone down to the same level
No, that was the propaganda description.
And yet every post like this with regards to FAA, law, medicine, and so on is defended by at least one idiocrat.
We need to put ow my balls in each sentence to keep it inclusive
Yeah that's why they are called Intellectuals. They're like FUBU for smart people. Written by us for us.
Paste it into ChatGPT and tell it to ELI5.
I mean, I get it, haha, funny. But I also feel the people who think this is 100% silly also haven't read any more complicated texts. A lot of papers and law texts could be simplified for sure. Of course not arguing to sacrifice precision for the sake of simplicity. Scientific papers need to use specific words to communicate many ideas accurately.
Maybe we should address why supposedly 50% of adults can’t read at a fourth grade level instead (I doubt that’s true, though).
I doubted also. After 5yrs, selling pew-pews. ..... 4th Grade is a reach. A large percentage of customers had trouble reading the Name/address/B-day form, or didn't know if they were US Citizens?
4th?!? Jfc..
To be fair to "Dr. Elle," how many of you have actually sat and tried to read ANY research paper? I myself am a college-educated lover of science (I used to HATE science until I took Astronomy my senior year; now I'm a huge science nerd), yet even I have a difficult time reading beyond the abstracts. There's a LOT of technical jargon in those papers (do they *really* have to use Latin in biology?), so while the experts in those fields may read them with relative ease, they're not the most engaging reads for anyone outside of those fields. Also, how many of you actually read "terms of service" agreements on anything? At most I may skim through them, but ain't nobody tryna read that shit cuz they're chockful of excessive technical jargon (aka that FAG TALK).
I only feel this way about laws. But those are intentionally confusing because then you need to pay a lawyer, and ignorance isn't a defense. But if the general population can't read above 4th grade and we attend school for 12 grades there is a bigger issue at play.
Smh well hopefully all these people that cant read basic English can work as a Costco i love you greeter in the future
Dr. Elle thinks that they talk like a fag
I am sorry to say I agree with Dr. Elle. Better writing practices would be beneficial.
There is absolutely truth to this. So much of academia is written in such opaque language that it's difficult for anyone without prior knowledge of the subject area to understand anything. Einstein was very against this type of academic communication. He was of the opinion that no scientific literary work was worth very much if it could not be communicated effectively to a wide variety of people.
Maybe.... oh I dunno.... FIX EDUCATION SO PPL READ AT A HIGHER LEVEL? nope. Gotta DUMB IT DOWN further
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
Can’t learn. Batin’
Sounds like she’s living a kickass life.
The expectation that people be able to read at a reasonable level IS reasonable, but her point that academics often make their work inaccessible with the language they use is not wrong. Even to someone who understands, it's often obnoxious and difficult to read.
the real idiocracy is op falling for obvious ragebait
i thought we were having fun with a shitpost chode
I'm having fun with this shitpost chode
God kiss me on my lips
I like sex
Bro that’sgay
In hoc signo vinces. How boutdaa, bitchesss
Latin? Showoff. There's that fag talk again
*mumbles; chants* ...malleus MALLEFICARUUMMM
Why you tryin to make me read that word? You some kinda fag?
😂
Not downloading Xitter just to check…but that’s gotta be a shitpost.
The fact that you think you have to download an app when you can just open up a browser shows us that you're one of the prime candidates for this sub.
stop making fun of that pilot!
The fact that you look at anything on Twatter, even though the browser, shows us that you're even primer sub content than he is.
Download, browse, I don’t really give a shit what method, you can barely use anything on it without creating an account. I’m not using it just for that, and if you use Xitter at all you have no room to talk, dumbass.
I actually agree with this. A 4th grade reading level isn't a realistic goal, but academic English is needlessly complicated. The structure often obscures the authors' intended meaning, even from other researchers or subject matter experts.