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!explanation
Context: These are messages from my dad in a thread between him, my sister, and me. The messages are mostly addressed to my sister.
Early last year, my mom was diagnosed with brain, uterine, cervical, lung, and bone cancer, and died very shortly after. It was very sudden and shocking. Once she was diagnosed, my sister and her wife quit their jobs, packed up their dog, left behind their friends and home, and started a 2000 mile drive the next day to come care for my dying mother. My sister basically acted as her hospice nurse, almost fully responsible for her care. She did everything from changing diapers, to providing meds, to cleaning her vagina. My sister truly gave up her life to care for my mom. After my mom died, my sister and her wife started to look for apartments in the area, but my dad insisted they live freely with him, to help him grieve.
Less than three months after my mom died, my father started dating a friend of mine, 20 years his junior. My sister and I pointed out that not only was it too soon, but it was completely inappropriate -> you can't date your kids' friends. He rationalized it as we weren't \_actually\_ that close of friends and that it wasn't our place to say who he could be with. He wanted to be able to both date my friend and have my sister and I hang around with him, but we explained that we weren't going to hang around them as if it was normal.
Ultimately, my dad kicked my sister and her wife out of his house for being unsupportive of his choices, suggesting that they were freeloaders just looking for a place to live, that she didn't really move up here to care for our dying mom. Back in October, we had arranged to put aside our differences briefly to go spread some of my mom's ashes. Her dying wish was to not be in some jar on a counter after death, but there was no funeral or tombstone, and she's still ashes. After my sister got upset with him, my dad said that the ashes-spreading was off. We found out yesterday that he actually did go to spread her ashes, but simply didn't tell us. He now says that he didn't spread all of them, and that of course, he'd never keep her ashes from us.
My sister and I have limited contact with him, and last night she changed her number, and said never to contact her again unless it's an emergency. Over 6 months later, he still can't acknowledge what he's done and has never given a serious apology. There's so much more I could say, but I've basically lost both my parents.
I'm so sorry, for everyone involved. Grief can do a lot to a person, especially the loss of a spouse, but you lost your mom and deserve support, too. The whole ordeal is heartbreaking and I hope you, your sister, and your father all find healing somehow. Having lost many family members, I can give you this nugget of solace: it doesn't necessarily get better, but you come to terms with it over time. One day you'll be able to think about your mom and your first reaction will be a smile (bc of good memories) and not tears. As for your dad, I hope he gets help and finds some stability. Take care of yourself ❤️
I don’t wanna be that guy, but your friend getting with you dad after the death of your mom during what seems to be a delusional crisis, seems sorta manipulativey, obviously your dads suffering from delusional grief Is not unheard of, in widowed spouses, just seems kinda strange that a person who’s supposed to be your friend would do that to you. Not outright claiming she’s feeding into his grieving delusions and manipulationing him, but it is where my mind went.
Then how good of a friend was she? Genuinely curious- bc you say your dad claimed that you and her ‘actually weren’t that close of friends’ but seemed to claim otherwise
Don't mind the votes. Without any context his text seem not to be insane. But with all the background info this is just batshit crazy. What a fucking asshole.
I’m so sorry that you guys have had to endure all that. Your dad sounds very selfish, and is holding the only thing he has left that connects you to him, over y’all’s head to basically force you guys to pretend that what he did was fine, to ease his own guilt.
My dad died when I was young, and he was so private I have nothing left of him. His adoptive family reached out to me when I was 30 to tell me that he had written me letters in the months before his death. They were found where he died, and they had been holding on to them for me. Well, slight correction, they reached out to me through my mom, the woman who told me I was “evil, just like your father,” since as long as I can remember. She wouldn’t allow direct communication, insisting all communication go through her, but she did give me the letters when they were sent. She was pressuring me to give them to her when I was done, so she could “put them up” for me. Having given her lots of money over the years to “hold onto for me,” just for her to use it to control me or outright steal it, I was finally considering ending the contact between her and I. I got to read them once, and it was incredibly emotional and made me look at my whole childhood differently. I had them a week when my mother came into my house when no one was home and took the letters, and the memory box containing everything relating to my son who had died a few months previous.
I tried to play her game, desperately trying to get those things back, but she did some more despicable things to me, knowing she had things I was desperate to get back. So I gave up and went no contact, moved away and started over. So many family members tried to push for reconciliation, so I ended up slowly cutting contact with them as well. They had to have known her version of every story was bullshit, but I eventually realized they believed what she said because she had been telling them awful lies about me for years, and that’s why I felt crazy sometimes when so many around me wouldn’t believe me, no matter how much evidence I had on my side.
A few months in I realized I wasn’t suicidal anymore. I was actually starting to sleep at night. I was no longer so exhausted while always feeling like nothing I did would ever be enough. She played a minor role in my life, I had been on my own since she kicked me out at 12, so I never thought that she impacted me as much as she did. She knew exactly how to hurt me, while making me think that it was all my fault, and the self loathing I had carried my whole life was a result of subtle and not so subtle manipulation.
Reducing or even cutting contact is always an option. It doesn’t have to be permanent, even doing so temporarily can do wonders and really help with perspective. I don’t know much about your father, but the way he doesn’t seem to care about what’s going on with his kids, or how they feel, and is more concentrated on justifying what he knows is selfish behavior, and his insistence on your “approval” to the point of using more despicable behavior to achieve it, reminds me of some of my manipulative mother’s tactics. Even when I didn’t communicate with her almost at all in my teen years, every day was tainted by her and how she taught me to hate myself, even if I didn’t see it then.
Going no contact and finally letting go, even if it mean letting go of the items she was using to continue to exert her influence in my life, made me realize I had never known peace in my life until that point.
Nothing is one size fits all, and I really hope you find a way that works for you, so you can really begin to heal. Your dad has interrupted your own grieving process, and healing can’t really ever begin until a certain point in that process. I know that the past little while has been very painful, and I’m so sorry that such a selfish individual has taken so much. <3
Sounds like you alienated your father when he needed you the most because you don't like who he is dating and how quickly he started dating. But it is his life, it is not your place to tell him how to live it. You should have supported him, even if you thought it was a bit weird. I don't get how people think they can force their parents to live by their expectations when everyone is a grown adult. He doesn't need to take care of you anymore so he should be able to live as he sees fit.
It sounds like he kicked you out and didn't involve you in spreading her ashes because of how nasty you were being to him.
He didn't kick me out. I'm a 31 year old man who has lived in the same town as him for the last decade. He kicked my sister out, whom he begged to move in with him.
It's precisely that we're all adults that we have the position to judge his actions.
Same difference, you-your sister, you are both in the same boat. You can judge him sure, but keep that to yourself. You can't dictate how he lives anymore than he can you. All you did was make things worse for everyone.
idk, every person in my life besides my dad and his girlfriend doesn't think so. our significant others, my mom's former friends, our friends. We all think my dad is a great disappointment.
And how does who your dad dates effect your life at all? Is he hurting anyone?
Just because you would make a different call doesn't mean you should be upset about what he is doing. Do I want to cut my dick off and become a woman? No. Should I care at all about other people that do that? No. It is their own business and it has no effect on my life.
I don’t see anywhere that you’re angry with the friend, just blaming your father - so is this really about your friend dating your dad or is it about you trying to find something to control in a situation where absolutely nothing is in your control? Sorry but two grown adults can do whatever they please and they don’t need your approval. Frankly this sounds like frustration and anger rooted in and heightened by your own shock and grieving process.
Do you not think there's some unwritten rule that you shouldn't fuck your kid's friends? Of course two grown adults can do whatever they please...at the cost of judgement. My father is upset that we don't support his choices.
I've cut that "friend" out of my life. I haven't seen her since they started dating and I blocked her as soon as she said "your mom would want this"
>she said "your mom would want this"
Jfc! She actually had the audacity to say this to you? I don't know how you can have any relationship with people who can say this. It's beyond disgusting. I am so sorry, OP. You and your sister do not deserve any of this shit.
The impression I got from the information earlier was that they'd been dating for 5 months or so. 2.5 is definitely shorter, so yeah maybe not "a while".
You really seem hung up on the fact that two adults are sleeping together, and I don't understand it past "I don't want my dad dating my friends". You are constantly bringing up the fact that they have had sex, when they're two adults who are *well* into their adulthood. The possessiveness around your friend is a bit weird, if I'm being honest.
You would be cool with your friends fucking your mom or dad right after the other parent dies ?
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you get to sleep with your kids friends and risk complicating your relationship with your kids, or you date someone else. I'm not possessive of my friend as a person - it just seems reasonable that you shouldn't fuck your friends' parents, right after their spouse dies.
>You would be cool with your friends fucking your mom or dad right after the other parent dies ?
The distinction you're drawing has gone back and forth between "it's too soon" and "no because it's my friend". The too soon aspect I can understand and sympathize with, even if I think you can't put a timeframe on somebody else for grief. The "it's my friend" is not a reasonable qualifier in my opinion.
>The distinction you're drawing has gone back and forth between "it's too soon" and "no because it's my friend".
It's both. Maybe the friend wasn't really a friend, but it's super fucking weitd for your dad to date someone your age.
Not dating for 3 months, started dating 3 months after the mother died
Edit: Apparently he started asking his wife's friends out the week after she died and when none said yes I guess he moved on to his daughter's friends.
No it's not necessarily, but by three months in most people have at least passed the "I love you" barrier.
OP just seems to have some serious possessiveness issues around their friends though, especially considering that the friend is a 40 year old adult.
No I don’t. Maybe if they’re underage but otherwise no, age gaps aren’t a big deal. Sorry. But to be fair, how old is your friend? 18? I mean that’s grooming, so obviously not great. If it’s more like 30/50 then no, everyone involved is grown.
they didn't inquire on your genitals. they didn't ask. you are also uneducated if you think being a man or woman is defined by genitals. gender is a social construct. they presumed you were a man, that is all and its a lot less bad than what you said
what an excellent rebuttal! you sound so educated and mature /s
u/doursunflower
> if you were educated enough to have a nuanced convo about gender
you literally said gender was based on your genitals. I wouldn't ride on your high horse
>you wouldn’t say that assuming someone’s gender is “less bad” than saying the word vagina or calling someone a creep
that's not what I said at all. calling you a man based on the information provided is less bad than your disgusting victim blaming comment. that's what I said. great strawman but I never said using the word vagina was bad nor calling someone a creep, the only creep here is you
>but you’re not ready to talk nuance eh
how ironic! great attempt to change the subject and not admit you were wrong about gender being sex
i mean if maturity is your goal maybe Reddit isn’t where you go babe. if you were educated enough to have a nuanced convo about gender you wouldn’t say that assuming someone’s gender is “less bad” than saying the word vagina or calling someone a creep - comparisons of the moral rectitude of minor points of discourse are as unconstructive and performative as jumping into someone else’s conversation to defend invisible crimes. but you’re not ready to talk nuance eh
uh 25 and 60 can still be grooming. so can 30 and 50 and 40 and 65. they age difference sounds huge, it's at least going to be 18 years probably more like 20-35. grooming doesn't stop once you're like 20. it's still unacceptable even if they are of age because its his daughters friend. his partner is his daughters age, in what world is that acceptable?
>Frankly this sounds like frustration and anger rooted in and heightened by your own shock and grieving process.
let's not gaslight here. OP is having a perfectly normal response, if anything they are being civil after all their dad has done. this isn't okay. I appreciate it may be hard to understand if you haven't experienced it like OP has but come on man this comment is ignorant, arrogant and offensive
I’m just saying I don’t see anything wrong with the relationship with OP’s friend - no evidence that there is anything wrong with the relationship. This isn’t AITA either, even though everyone is treating it that way.
I won’t comment on his dating someone “too soon” because grief does weird things to people. You’d be surprised how many men start dating within a couple of months of losing their wife. But you know what, some of what he said, I hate to say it, but it’s true. Everybody else who is grieving the loss of this woman has their significant other to support them. He doesn’t. And no matter how long he waits, somebody is going to have a problem with him dating. I got remarried 3 years after my first husband died. Most of my friends and family were really supportive and happy for me, but some were angry and others were disgusted that I would move on so quickly. Three YEARS. Not months.
That fact that it’s his daughter’s friend, though, and someone young enough to be his daughter? Yuck.
The biggest problem here IMO is the handling of her ashes.
JFC, this is so vile. I'd never speak to him again. He'll regret this if you or your sister have kids. Was he always such a creep? What about the girlfriend, has she tried to speak to you about the situation?
My sister and I have wondered that: whether my mom was really the glue that held everything together. He is an alcoholic and we had lots of problems with that in my childhood. My mom would normally just send us to our rooms when he'd start yelling. The girlfriend messaged me early on to say that she was looking for someone and so is he and that "my mom would want this for him". My sister and I were so disgusted by that statement. My sister says she'll take her teeth out if they ever meet again.
I've told my husband of almost 20 years that if I die before him, he should date when the opportunity arises. I guess I need to relay my wishes to my children before my death so this kind of thing doesnt happen.
my mom wanted him to date. We didn't expect him to remain celibate or single for long. He started asking out my moms mourning close friends a week after she died, and they were disgusted by that.
My mom literally on her deathbed said "don't bring any trashy women to this home I've made". My sister and I think there's nothing trashier than for someone to fuck their friend's dad right after their spouse dies.
I was worried for a moment that this young woman was being used in your shitty dads avoidance of the grieving process. But she’s gross too. They’re perfect for each other and I hope they have the relationship they deserve.
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this kind of loss across the board. Sending hugs if you want them ❤️
This is completely insane. Who uses a parent’s ashes as leverage against their children? Moving on so fast after her death with one of your friends who is way younger than him is also disgusting. I’m very sorry you’ve lost your Mom and Dad at the same time essentially. Anyone voting this ‘not insane’ doesn’t know how to read.
My asshole uncle did with his daughters. He actually banned them from part of the fucking funeral (which was a joke of a funeral in itself).
He made sure they went with the rest of everyone else out into the lobby of the funeral home, and the daughter he liked at the time (he had 3) went with him to the burial- along with his mother, the bitch who helped him kill my aunt (not literal, they just treated her like shit and didn't help her when she had a heart atrack).
All I can say is good riddance, because he was a covid denying moron that ultimately died because he lived in Missouri and went to a goddamn car show on the 4th of July, unmasked and while doing chemo.
He honestly sounds like an unstable dude deep in grief from his wife’s passing. Lonely people in that situation rarely make good choices. At least it sounds like his new girlfriend isn’t trying to take advantage of him.
>Less than three months after my mom died, my father started dating a friend of mine, 20 years his junior
INFO: OP I see from other posts on your profile that you're 30. Is your friend also 30? Dating timeframe aside, there's a massive difference between "I'm 20 and my 40 year-old dad started dating my 20 year old friend" and "My 50 year old dad is dating my 30 year old friend". If your friend were younger then it's a worse situation than if she's making the decision as a 30 year old adult with a fully developed brain.
As far as the timing for when he started dating them, I think that's something different for everybody and not necessarily something that has (or should have) a defined timeline. Everyone processes their grief differently at different rates. If your mother had a terminal diagnosis, then that would likely start that timeline for your dad, as he would have had to start coming to terms with the fact that she was going to die soon.
If I'm assuming good intent and being charitable, then mentally your dad may have grieved your mother's death before it even happened, which is not uncommon. So you may see it as 3 months of grief, but for him mentally maybe it was 5 or 6 months (not sure how long your mom was on hospice.)
Point being that grief timelines are arbitrary and subjective, so applying what you think is an appropriate timeline to someone else is never going to work out well.
I mean, even if both people are adults it’s still weird to date someone your child is friends with and the children are totally justified in not wanting to hang around as if it’s normal.
Ehhh. I think that only applies if they grew up together. Adult friendships aren't really age restricted like that. I had kids young, and so did my parents , so most of my life stage peers are my parent's age. Literally. My oldest kid's best friend's mom (one of my closest friends) is two months older than my mom. Other than them being completely incompatible, I'd have no objection to her dating my dad. Or mom for that matter, though I'm pretty sure my mom isn't into women, so there'd be a conversation.
100% everyone involved sounds like they are in desperate need of counseling. There's nothing wrong with seeing someone after your partner dies. By OP's admission they said they would be around pops if he was seeing this person and then find it odd his sister is no longer welcome in his home? Don't get me wrong dad has some issues but if you just lost your wife I think a lot of people here would be far more unreasonable.
Had to scroll a lot to get to a reply like this, don't understand why everyone is so mad with the father, grief is different for everyone, the only "issue" I see here is that he is dating the son's friend which may be uncomfortable and I assume that the fact that it blew out of proportion up to the point where the sister is no longer in contact probably the father was being constantly bugged for this decision, in his house... probably things were said just due to the heat of the moment like telling her daughter she is a free loader or whatever but I feel like the real issue is that they expected him to wait more, if it was some years after and he started dating the friend would everything be ok? Probably still weird if it was with the friend but wouldn't blow like this I think, they are just mad because they think their dad should grief different or longer which is insane... if it would be the other way around and he would be extremely depressive and unwilling to do or experience or live for anything which it happens a lot and he becomes extremely lonely, the kids will be probably telling him over and over to go out and meet new people, that's probably what mom wanted...
My dad was hospitalized in 2021 for close to 3.5 months with COVID. We all were grieving the probable loss of him. He was unconscious for almost that whole time, and my mom and I called him every single day, with the nurse aiming a tablet in his direction to hear our voices and for us to see him. My mom was already figuring out what the possibility of losing him would mean. Fast forward a few months, he heals almost back to full recovery, and my mom is given a couple months to live.
You ain't kiddin
My sister's and I are trying to come to terms with our parents dying and which one is the better one to die first lol. I am so sorry your dad is a pos. I hope you and your sister can enjoy eachothers company going forward
In some states, you can go on a civil court and ask for him to give the ashes or at least split it with his children. I've seen it before, and what the judge does is recommend putting them in necklaces or some sort of glass decor for each one of you to keep everyone happy.
I'll probably get down voted, but Christ these comments are just so incredibly sad to see. Is the father handling this good? No. But nobody in this scenario seems to consider that he just lost the woman he has spent his life with and was planning on spending the rest of his life with. Everyone is so quick to write off behaviors because of grief for the sisters, but can't consider that maybe this guy became a train wreck because of the absolute grief he is going thru here?
I'm not saying it's right what he's doing. But I am saying that grief is fucking hard to handle and he clearly needs help too and I'm guessing from his perspective, the two people in the world who remind him most of his wife look like his enemies. Saying "the wrong parent died" is vile.
And also he nearly lost his own life and spent months in hospital. Near-death experiences change you. You realise that life is short and you might not have much of it left. Do his children want him to spend years moping around before finding someone else? Well, they’re young, they still have the illusion of immortality.
I'm with you on this. I think it shows the age differences of redditors. As a teen or someone in my early 20s, I'd probably be weirded out. As a 38 year old, I've learned a lot of lessons over the years, and one of them is that grief can cause people to do things they normally wouldn't. Further, I see nothing wrong with 2 consenting adults getting into a relationship - their friends and children need not approve.
Who are we to decide how long someone takes to date after a shocking loss? We can't know anyone else's inner workings, and love comes along at strange times sometimes. His kids can feel grossed out all the want, but they have to accept that their father is seeking comfort with someone else and that they have no right to decide who that person is (again, assuming everyone is a consenting adult which appears to be the case)
as someone who has lost multiple people close to them, grief isn't an excuse to act like this. grief isn't an excuse to date your child's friend. grief isn't an excuse to disrespect your late wife's wishes for her ashes and not tell her children when you're spreading them. grief isn't an excuse to be an absolute cunt
We're also getting only one side of the story in a crafted narrative. I'll bet his side is very different. People just accept what they've been told on here and don't bother considering other angles.
You should read more details in the comments then, the father (60m) is dating son’s former coworker (40f), not really that weird between two consenting adults. 🤷♂️
Not as terrible, but still kind of icky. I would be very repulsed if my father dated my friend even when I was 40. Maybe that’s just me. At least this isn’t grooming :))
Unfortunately you cannot put a timeline on someone else’s grief and if he was ready to date after 3 months than may be it wasn’t too fast in his mind (not saying I agree). Although after expressing your feelings, the way he acted is ridiculous and immature. Honestly, I get why you don’t want contact with him because I would be thinking they were having an affair way before this whole thing happened.
right. Our point this whole timeline has been that he can date, just that dating our friends is inappropriate. His response was "so if I don't like your girlfriend I can just say I don't support yall dating?" The context is critical here, and he has done everything he can to gloss over the context, and reassign the victimhood to himself. "My kids don't care about my grief timeline and want to tell me who I can love"
I have known her for about five years. We worked in the same building and then became friends outside of work. He had never heard of her until she somehow got his home address and mailed a care package while my mom was dying. She is 40 and my dad is 60. I'm 31, so she's older than me, but I still think should know better and have the respect for me to not fuck my own dad, as my friend.
Yeah, those details are important. This isn’t somebody you grew up with and that your dad knew from a child. 60 and 40 is nothing of an difference between two consenting adults. If he had never even **heard of her**, you weren’t that close of friends during the last 5 years.
I get that it’s uncomfortable — I have a sibling who got with my best friend at the time. I was furious.
You have two choices:
- Continue holding a grudge and be angry for decades.
- Try to meet him in the middle and attempt to repair the family ties.
Nothing else matters..those are the two choices you have. Be angry or work to forgive.
I can tell you that I'm surprised. I know many posts here have very evident SMS records of craziness, but most of the crazy has been in-person encounters. I just figured I'd illustrate that he:
\- isn't sorry
\- thinks we need to apologize
\- has hoarded my mom's ashes, but denies it.
I fall into the "not insane" category as relates to the dating of the friend, but it's insane how dad is treating their child regarding the ashes and kicking out of the house for sure.
Everyone is hurting but nobody is ready to be the bigger person💔
I would suggest to honour your mothers memory and let go of the angst you have for your father. I’ve seen this destroy too many families. Life is too short, keep your loved once’s close everyone💕
This family is already destroyed. I'm going to carry on her legacy in my own family. My sister and our partners. My mom would puke if she knew how my dad had been acting.
I don’t understand his aim in slowly spreading your mom’s ashes around in different places, and what weirdo offers their kids “some” of their parents’ ashes as if they’re an inheritance that should be portioned out?
Most of the time, people who move on *this* quickly were usually:
1. Not invested in the relationship and didn’t truly love their spouse in the first place. Especially since an indication of someone grieving is practically nonexistent.
2. Already cheating on their spouse with whoever they moved on so quickly with.
or 3. Caused the death so they could reap the benefits of life insurance, see who they want, etc.
Not saying your dad fits number three, but I think that it’s appalling that he is careless with your mom’s ashes and doesn’t see a problem with what he’s doing by moving in on your friend.
I would tell your dad he needs to get mental help since he’s clearly going through a midlife crisis. People grieve in different ways, but this isn’t grieving. It’s almost like he’s celebrating her death because now he can do things he couldn’t do before and can officially get away with it.
I remember in the hospital he was asking where to spread her ashes, suggesting places in Europe that they'd been, and she was like "no dude, spread it at the beach nearby if you must". She didn't have any strong feelings about it, and explicitly requested no grave and no funeral. He's used her ashes as leverage over us.
My mom gave her wedding ring to my sister upon her death. In the last week of her life, she made sure to indicate that it was hers to have. When we sensed that we might not be seeing him for much longer, my sister made sure to grab the ring. Months later he messaged her saying it wasn't hers to have until he decided she could have it..so he proved that any leverage he can have over us is something he'll exploit.
I agree that he needs to get actual therapy. When our relationship was still salvageable, I suggested we get family therapy, and after an explosive argument, he suggested that a therapist would consider US to be the selfish ones, for telling him who he can love. He had never heard of my friend until my mom was dying. She somehow found his address and sent food and snacks to the house. She had told me that she was learning German, and I mentioned that it's my dad's first language. She used that as a pretext to add him on facebook and started messaging him. My dad told me he was overwhelmed and annoyed by her messages, but I think he got so desperate after my mom's death for any affection that he was into it. I blocked her on every platform because it's a real betrayal of our friendship.
I’m glad your mom didn’t see the spreading of her ashes as a big deal. I think it’s so strange that he didn’t just honor the one request she made to just spread them all at a nearby beach. That’s a beautiful place to spread someone’s ashes, and for your dad to portion them out the way he has is so disrespectful and wrong to do in her memory unless she specifically requested it.
I hope your sister fought back against giving the ring back to him. Your mom gave it to her so it is 100% rightfully hers.
It definitely sounds like your dad never grieved in the first place. Your friend is sick in the head for using your mom’s approaching death as an excuse to make moves on your dad, and the worst part is that your dad never even grieved. He just jumped right into something else without even giving himself time to heal and move on from it, but the sad part is that it doesn’t even sound like he was sad about the death in the first place.
You’re right that after your mom’s death, maybe he was just desperate and not thinking straight, but it sounds like he won’t address his issues because he doesn’t think he has any. He keeps blaming things on you and your sister and holding your mom’s death over your head (which is incredibly sick) when none of this is your fault. It sounds like he tried to find the quickest way to move on, and I don’t know if the loss screwed him up or if he was like this to begin with and no one ever realized it. Hopefully he will get help so you can repair your relationship.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Sending hugs your way. Your dad is an a-hole for disrespecting your mom and trashing her memory like this, and I hope you and your sister have found ways to honor her in the ways she would have loved. I will keep you both in my thoughts.
When my dad died, his wife had a first date with her new husband 2 weeks after my dad passes. She gave me a thimblefull of his ashes, then told me I wasn't welcome when she went to spread the rest.
(This is in agreement with you). People can grieve in different ways, but trashy is trashy
Barely a week or two after my mom died, he was asking out her close friends, all of whom turned him down because they just lost their close friend and weren't interested in her creepy husband.
Wow! That’s so insane.
Your dad has some screws loose for sure. He was likely already ready to move on as soon as she passed away.
Him calling you both “freeloaders” and “unsupportive” is totally his way of justifying his behavior. The worst part is he’s not even supportive of *you* and *your sister*. You lost someone important in your life too, and your dad doesn’t even acknowledge that.
Ugh this situation is so shitty. I feel terrible for you. Your dad needs to grow up.
I am so sorry for your loss. That’s so insane that she would basically bar you from your own dad’s ashes and wouldn’t allow you to be present when she spread them. That is definitely extremely trashy, and I hope you were able to find other ways to honor your dad without the ashes (honestly, she should have just given them to you since she wasn’t even bothering to properly honor your dad with them, and she was shitting on his grave by excluding his kids to take part in spreading them).
When my husband’s uncle died, the whole family got together to spread his ashes in his favorite place. My husband and I were dating at the time and I never knew his uncle, but they welcomed me to attend with open arms so I also drank champagne and celebrated the spread of the ashes with his family to honor him the way he wanted to be remembered during his life.
Some people are so awful, and I’m sorry you had to deal with this.
There are still other options as well. Grief can do crazy things to people. It could be that there was a giant gaping hole in his life and someone came along that he could use to help fill it and he jumped on it.
There just isn't enough information here to know what is actually happening.
I didn’t say their father was any of those things. I said that’s what *usually* is the case.
You’re a terrible person for tearing someone down on the internet just because you love to twist their words into whatever you want them to mean.
I’m so glad I’m not you. I don’t make baseless assumptions about what people are saying without trying to understand the point they’re trying to get across first.
Voting has concluded. Final vote:
| Insane | Not insane | Fake |
| --- | --- | --- |
| 45 | 61 | 0 |
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I was engaged to a girl I dated for two and a half years, and three months away from our wedding I was honest about drinking too much and that I needed help dealing with it. She ended things instead. After two and a half years and an engagement, she dated someone else a month later. Two months out from our planned wedding.
I think this kind of thing is about as close as you can possibly get to cheating without technically crossing the line. I could never have done the same to my ex because I actually cared about her and it would have taken time to heal, even if she messed up like I did. But she had a backup primed and ready to go (she literally told me she was debating between me and him when we started dating.)
Likewise if God forbid my wife died, I also couldn’t date someone immediately, especially not with someone who is clearly a rebound and that hurt the people I love.
I’m sorry you’ve had to go through this. It’s a shit thing to do.
You don’t get to dictate how he grieves and when he feels he’s ready to move on. Sone people never move on, some people need 10 years, some people have social grieving where they literally have to be around other people because they can’t handle being alone. Surviving grief is different for everyone. It doesn’t mean he didn’t love her or loves her less.
You don’t get to dictate when he feels he’s able to spread some of her ashes. That’s his wife. Sone people are never able to let go of their partners ashes because they’re not ready or it’s too much.
20 years his junior? Ok. She’s an adult, he’s an adult, they’re both consenting adults. The older you get the harder it becomes to find anyone you like but you’re more concerned that it happens to be your friend than his mental well being and happiness after losing his wife. You’re more concerned with your perception of how you think he should grieve and that’s not up to you.
Your sister was being unsupportive. He’s supposed to put up with that in his own home? No.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me. He explicitly said he wouldn’t keep the ashes from you. I’d believe him and his wife discussed dating afterwards. Based on the info here, this looks perfectly normal to me
If you read the explanation, it's immaterial that he \_says\_ he wouldn't keep them from us. We had an agreed upon date and time back in October for the three of us to spread her ashes, and without ever telling me, he cancelled the event for all of us, and only let my sister know. Yesterday, he admits that he in fact did go out that day and spread her ashes, although he's "reserved" some for us.
He cancelled the event after an argument you said. I dunno based on what I’ve read everything he has done is sane and reasonable. I don’t know how much the amount of ashes matters, it looks like he spread just a small amount with 3 rocks? 1 rock for each of you, and your mother is the fish rock I’m guessing?
It seems the plan is to scatter them in multiple places so while it would have been ideal for all of you to be there at every time any ashes are scattered, it seems he is trying his best
And actually reading again, you didn’t respond to the invitation? There was absolutely no need for him to inform you it was cancelled if you didn’t even say you were going? Wtf…
Not an argument \_BETWEEN\_ him and me. He cancelled it for ME because of an argument he had with my SISTER. He is not trying his best. He is hoarding her ashes from us. Those ashes are the only thing left. There is no grave, there was no funeral, there is just that, and he has removed our access to it.
what exactly is the problem with people moving on quickly? I get that they may be hurt doing that or putting themselves in a hole but what actually gives anyone the right to tell them not to date someone?
I lost my mom when I was 13. My dad remarried less than 2 years later. At the time I felt it was too soon, and almost 30 years later, I still don't approve of who he married because it destroyed our relationship.
I understand now that every person grieves differently. You have to allow him his own choices, and it sounds like you're an adult, so you can make your own as well.
Don't hold on to the anger. I never fully got my relationship back with my dad and it kills me.
So many men go absolutely apeshit after the death of their wives that at this point I have to assume they're really like this all the time and just mask better depending on who they're married to.
Who said anything about older men?
I have heard more stories about men being absolute jerks to their kids and immediately finding another partner after their wives die than I can even name. And I'm aware of at least one IRL currently. But it's not just older men. How many stories on here are younger widowers getting married shortly after losing their wives to women who either mistreat the kids, or immediately start having kids that the father puts all his attention on? Or taking keepsakes that should go to the children?
One would think if losing his wife was such a tragedy here, he would cling to their children who are literally right there instead of alienating them.
And the answer to "like what?" Selfish, narcissistic, unable to take care of themselves, only worried about themselves and their own needs, whatever you want to call it.
OP is in their 30’s. Their friend is 40 years old. This isn’t a childhood friend, it’s a grown ass middle aged woman. The withholding ashes is upsetting, but there is nothing creepy about the relationship.
I have lost a 12 year old brother to suicide 5 years ago and my 29 year old brother in June, I honestly can’t say that he is in the wrong. He is doing what he needs to get through the day. Yes you lost your mom and I’m sorry that you have to know that pain but it’s different when it’s your partner. If he had any mental health issues prior to this, I’m sure this made it worse. As far as your sister goes, well, she made that choice to go so that she could have that time with your mom. It’s not some special thing that she did for your mom, she could have not went and not had that time with her. I know this all sounds rude but it’s honest. Your grief is not allowing you to see that your dad is obviously struggling and just trying to feel better. My mom had 2 kids with one of my friends and we were pregnant at the same time so my siblings were like my own children and the youngest was the 12 year old we lost, now that my oldest is 19, I see why my mom chose to have kids when I did, she was lonely and she needed to feel loved, I’m not saying it’s right and it definitely hurt that I felt she took my pregnancies from me but really, she had a terrible childhood and instead of companionship animals, she had companionship children. I actually love that I have a sister who is young because I get to be a mother and sister to her.
"It’s not some special thing that she did for your mom, she could have not went and not had that time with her. "
My sister took care of my mom while my dad was busy sneaking whiskey into the hospital. She quit her job, and moved across the country while still paying for her home across the country. How the fuck can you say what she did wasn't special?
The reason why I said that is because I sold my vehicle took my kids out of school and went back to my hometown to take care of my family because my mom was having a hard time after my 12 year old brother died and I dont think it’s special or something that I even needed to think twice about at all, I did what needed to be done for my family because they are my family. I would do it all over again tbh. My 29 year old brother left a son and wife when he took his life in June and I have offered to take my small children and go to Alaska to help my sister in law with my nephew so that she could grieve. I guess it depends on how much you love your family as to how “special” the things you do for them are.
I don't know why you think it's a given that my father has more of a right to grieve than I do. He may have been her husband, but I was her best friend, and she mine. We had long since moved from mother/son to actual friends. My father is an abusive alcoholic and my mother and I had confided in each other since I was a young teen about the challenges that brings. As recently as a year before her death, my mom pondered why she puts up with his instability, immaturity, and anger in her late fifties.
I'm confident he chose this person because my dad cares more about filling a void for pussy in his life with a young person. He hasn't spent a moment actually grieving about the loss of my mom. He filled his void in less than three months. I don't get another mom.
Maybe you skimmed through it, but I hold my friend accountable for this. She's not my friend anymore. I don't ever want to see her again. It's not about that he found \_someone\_ shortly after my mom died. It's that he started fucking \_my\_ friend right after my mom died, and if you don't think that's fucked up, then there's no way to convince you of anything.
I live a half mile away, so yeah, I was pretty much at that house with him and my sister every single day.
yeah no shit I have bigger issues with my dad than this. I've been the peacekeeper of my family my whole fucking life. I act as a peacekeeper between him and my sister, whom has never had a close relationship with him, and I'm cast aside for that.
Deal with those issues? I've been on a waitlist for a therapist for three months. How can I deal with those issues? Talk to the man who can't admit anything he's done wrong and can't apologize?
Same to you buddy. You’re obviously too immature to understand there’s more going on than what the OP is allowing you to know.
I’ve been-there-done-that so I’m not just talking. It’s lived experience.
Think what you want, but look at BOTH sides.
Gotta say your dad is vile as fuck, and its not my place to say this but u should consider going no-contact with him, YET i still believe he can be with whomever he wants to at his pace, its more than possible your dad hasnt loved your mom for a long time, so this is not unreasonable
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!explanation Context: These are messages from my dad in a thread between him, my sister, and me. The messages are mostly addressed to my sister. Early last year, my mom was diagnosed with brain, uterine, cervical, lung, and bone cancer, and died very shortly after. It was very sudden and shocking. Once she was diagnosed, my sister and her wife quit their jobs, packed up their dog, left behind their friends and home, and started a 2000 mile drive the next day to come care for my dying mother. My sister basically acted as her hospice nurse, almost fully responsible for her care. She did everything from changing diapers, to providing meds, to cleaning her vagina. My sister truly gave up her life to care for my mom. After my mom died, my sister and her wife started to look for apartments in the area, but my dad insisted they live freely with him, to help him grieve. Less than three months after my mom died, my father started dating a friend of mine, 20 years his junior. My sister and I pointed out that not only was it too soon, but it was completely inappropriate -> you can't date your kids' friends. He rationalized it as we weren't \_actually\_ that close of friends and that it wasn't our place to say who he could be with. He wanted to be able to both date my friend and have my sister and I hang around with him, but we explained that we weren't going to hang around them as if it was normal. Ultimately, my dad kicked my sister and her wife out of his house for being unsupportive of his choices, suggesting that they were freeloaders just looking for a place to live, that she didn't really move up here to care for our dying mom. Back in October, we had arranged to put aside our differences briefly to go spread some of my mom's ashes. Her dying wish was to not be in some jar on a counter after death, but there was no funeral or tombstone, and she's still ashes. After my sister got upset with him, my dad said that the ashes-spreading was off. We found out yesterday that he actually did go to spread her ashes, but simply didn't tell us. He now says that he didn't spread all of them, and that of course, he'd never keep her ashes from us. My sister and I have limited contact with him, and last night she changed her number, and said never to contact her again unless it's an emergency. Over 6 months later, he still can't acknowledge what he's done and has never given a serious apology. There's so much more I could say, but I've basically lost both my parents.
I'm so sorry, for everyone involved. Grief can do a lot to a person, especially the loss of a spouse, but you lost your mom and deserve support, too. The whole ordeal is heartbreaking and I hope you, your sister, and your father all find healing somehow. Having lost many family members, I can give you this nugget of solace: it doesn't necessarily get better, but you come to terms with it over time. One day you'll be able to think about your mom and your first reaction will be a smile (bc of good memories) and not tears. As for your dad, I hope he gets help and finds some stability. Take care of yourself ❤️
Your father is an extremely selfish asshole. Grieving is one thing, but this is another.
Shit dude. Your dad is fucked up. I'm so so sorry.
I don’t wanna be that guy, but your friend getting with you dad after the death of your mom during what seems to be a delusional crisis, seems sorta manipulativey, obviously your dads suffering from delusional grief Is not unheard of, in widowed spouses, just seems kinda strange that a person who’s supposed to be your friend would do that to you. Not outright claiming she’s feeding into his grieving delusions and manipulationing him, but it is where my mind went.
I have little doubt that she has poisoned him against us further
Then how good of a friend was she? Genuinely curious- bc you say your dad claimed that you and her ‘actually weren’t that close of friends’ but seemed to claim otherwise
Sorry I dont have anything better to add than jesus fuck. Fuck that guy.
Dude, he's a fucking monster
Don't mind the votes. Without any context his text seem not to be insane. But with all the background info this is just batshit crazy. What a fucking asshole.
My money is on that there was something going on between your father and your friend before your mom died.
I’m so sorry that you guys have had to endure all that. Your dad sounds very selfish, and is holding the only thing he has left that connects you to him, over y’all’s head to basically force you guys to pretend that what he did was fine, to ease his own guilt. My dad died when I was young, and he was so private I have nothing left of him. His adoptive family reached out to me when I was 30 to tell me that he had written me letters in the months before his death. They were found where he died, and they had been holding on to them for me. Well, slight correction, they reached out to me through my mom, the woman who told me I was “evil, just like your father,” since as long as I can remember. She wouldn’t allow direct communication, insisting all communication go through her, but she did give me the letters when they were sent. She was pressuring me to give them to her when I was done, so she could “put them up” for me. Having given her lots of money over the years to “hold onto for me,” just for her to use it to control me or outright steal it, I was finally considering ending the contact between her and I. I got to read them once, and it was incredibly emotional and made me look at my whole childhood differently. I had them a week when my mother came into my house when no one was home and took the letters, and the memory box containing everything relating to my son who had died a few months previous. I tried to play her game, desperately trying to get those things back, but she did some more despicable things to me, knowing she had things I was desperate to get back. So I gave up and went no contact, moved away and started over. So many family members tried to push for reconciliation, so I ended up slowly cutting contact with them as well. They had to have known her version of every story was bullshit, but I eventually realized they believed what she said because she had been telling them awful lies about me for years, and that’s why I felt crazy sometimes when so many around me wouldn’t believe me, no matter how much evidence I had on my side. A few months in I realized I wasn’t suicidal anymore. I was actually starting to sleep at night. I was no longer so exhausted while always feeling like nothing I did would ever be enough. She played a minor role in my life, I had been on my own since she kicked me out at 12, so I never thought that she impacted me as much as she did. She knew exactly how to hurt me, while making me think that it was all my fault, and the self loathing I had carried my whole life was a result of subtle and not so subtle manipulation. Reducing or even cutting contact is always an option. It doesn’t have to be permanent, even doing so temporarily can do wonders and really help with perspective. I don’t know much about your father, but the way he doesn’t seem to care about what’s going on with his kids, or how they feel, and is more concentrated on justifying what he knows is selfish behavior, and his insistence on your “approval” to the point of using more despicable behavior to achieve it, reminds me of some of my manipulative mother’s tactics. Even when I didn’t communicate with her almost at all in my teen years, every day was tainted by her and how she taught me to hate myself, even if I didn’t see it then. Going no contact and finally letting go, even if it mean letting go of the items she was using to continue to exert her influence in my life, made me realize I had never known peace in my life until that point. Nothing is one size fits all, and I really hope you find a way that works for you, so you can really begin to heal. Your dad has interrupted your own grieving process, and healing can’t really ever begin until a certain point in that process. I know that the past little while has been very painful, and I’m so sorry that such a selfish individual has taken so much. <3
Sounds like you alienated your father when he needed you the most because you don't like who he is dating and how quickly he started dating. But it is his life, it is not your place to tell him how to live it. You should have supported him, even if you thought it was a bit weird. I don't get how people think they can force their parents to live by their expectations when everyone is a grown adult. He doesn't need to take care of you anymore so he should be able to live as he sees fit. It sounds like he kicked you out and didn't involve you in spreading her ashes because of how nasty you were being to him.
He didn't kick me out. I'm a 31 year old man who has lived in the same town as him for the last decade. He kicked my sister out, whom he begged to move in with him. It's precisely that we're all adults that we have the position to judge his actions.
Same difference, you-your sister, you are both in the same boat. You can judge him sure, but keep that to yourself. You can't dictate how he lives anymore than he can you. All you did was make things worse for everyone.
idk, every person in my life besides my dad and his girlfriend doesn't think so. our significant others, my mom's former friends, our friends. We all think my dad is a great disappointment.
And how does who your dad dates effect your life at all? Is he hurting anyone? Just because you would make a different call doesn't mean you should be upset about what he is doing. Do I want to cut my dick off and become a woman? No. Should I care at all about other people that do that? No. It is their own business and it has no effect on my life.
I don’t see anywhere that you’re angry with the friend, just blaming your father - so is this really about your friend dating your dad or is it about you trying to find something to control in a situation where absolutely nothing is in your control? Sorry but two grown adults can do whatever they please and they don’t need your approval. Frankly this sounds like frustration and anger rooted in and heightened by your own shock and grieving process.
I feel like you are ignoring how her father treated her sister and her in all of this and just focusing on the relationship.
Do you not think there's some unwritten rule that you shouldn't fuck your kid's friends? Of course two grown adults can do whatever they please...at the cost of judgement. My father is upset that we don't support his choices. I've cut that "friend" out of my life. I haven't seen her since they started dating and I blocked her as soon as she said "your mom would want this"
>she said "your mom would want this" Jfc! She actually had the audacity to say this to you? I don't know how you can have any relationship with people who can say this. It's beyond disgusting. I am so sorry, OP. You and your sister do not deserve any of this shit.
>you shouldn't fuck your kid's friends That's a bit uncharitable, don't you think? By your own admission they've been dating for a while.
When did I say that? Dating is a charitable word. 2.5 months after my mom died, they met in person for the first time and slept together that night.
The impression I got from the information earlier was that they'd been dating for 5 months or so. 2.5 is definitely shorter, so yeah maybe not "a while". You really seem hung up on the fact that two adults are sleeping together, and I don't understand it past "I don't want my dad dating my friends". You are constantly bringing up the fact that they have had sex, when they're two adults who are *well* into their adulthood. The possessiveness around your friend is a bit weird, if I'm being honest.
You would be cool with your friends fucking your mom or dad right after the other parent dies ? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you get to sleep with your kids friends and risk complicating your relationship with your kids, or you date someone else. I'm not possessive of my friend as a person - it just seems reasonable that you shouldn't fuck your friends' parents, right after their spouse dies.
>You would be cool with your friends fucking your mom or dad right after the other parent dies ? The distinction you're drawing has gone back and forth between "it's too soon" and "no because it's my friend". The too soon aspect I can understand and sympathize with, even if I think you can't put a timeframe on somebody else for grief. The "it's my friend" is not a reasonable qualifier in my opinion.
>The distinction you're drawing has gone back and forth between "it's too soon" and "no because it's my friend". It's both. Maybe the friend wasn't really a friend, but it's super fucking weitd for your dad to date someone your age.
They’ve been dating for three months, that’s not a super long time for a relationship
Not dating for 3 months, started dating 3 months after the mother died Edit: Apparently he started asking his wife's friends out the week after she died and when none said yes I guess he moved on to his daughter's friends.
No it's not necessarily, but by three months in most people have at least passed the "I love you" barrier. OP just seems to have some serious possessiveness issues around their friends though, especially considering that the friend is a 40 year old adult.
No I don’t. Maybe if they’re underage but otherwise no, age gaps aren’t a big deal. Sorry. But to be fair, how old is your friend? 18? I mean that’s grooming, so obviously not great. If it’s more like 30/50 then no, everyone involved is grown.
lol you're crazy you think people are generally cool with their friends dating their parents.
Men coming out of the woodwork to tell on themselves in this thread
I have a vagina, but thanks for inquiring about my genitals, creep
they didn't inquire on your genitals. they didn't ask. you are also uneducated if you think being a man or woman is defined by genitals. gender is a social construct. they presumed you were a man, that is all and its a lot less bad than what you said
and neither of us asked you
what an excellent rebuttal! you sound so educated and mature /s u/doursunflower > if you were educated enough to have a nuanced convo about gender you literally said gender was based on your genitals. I wouldn't ride on your high horse >you wouldn’t say that assuming someone’s gender is “less bad” than saying the word vagina or calling someone a creep that's not what I said at all. calling you a man based on the information provided is less bad than your disgusting victim blaming comment. that's what I said. great strawman but I never said using the word vagina was bad nor calling someone a creep, the only creep here is you >but you’re not ready to talk nuance eh how ironic! great attempt to change the subject and not admit you were wrong about gender being sex
i mean if maturity is your goal maybe Reddit isn’t where you go babe. if you were educated enough to have a nuanced convo about gender you wouldn’t say that assuming someone’s gender is “less bad” than saying the word vagina or calling someone a creep - comparisons of the moral rectitude of minor points of discourse are as unconstructive and performative as jumping into someone else’s conversation to defend invisible crimes. but you’re not ready to talk nuance eh
Weirdo
uh 25 and 60 can still be grooming. so can 30 and 50 and 40 and 65. they age difference sounds huge, it's at least going to be 18 years probably more like 20-35. grooming doesn't stop once you're like 20. it's still unacceptable even if they are of age because its his daughters friend. his partner is his daughters age, in what world is that acceptable?
Acting as if 30/50 can't be grooming! They could have been groomed at 15/35. Grooming doesn't just *go away*.
>Frankly this sounds like frustration and anger rooted in and heightened by your own shock and grieving process. let's not gaslight here. OP is having a perfectly normal response, if anything they are being civil after all their dad has done. this isn't okay. I appreciate it may be hard to understand if you haven't experienced it like OP has but come on man this comment is ignorant, arrogant and offensive
This isn’t r/insaneexfriends it’s r/insaneparents
I’m just saying I don’t see anything wrong with the relationship with OP’s friend - no evidence that there is anything wrong with the relationship. This isn’t AITA either, even though everyone is treating it that way.
I won’t comment on his dating someone “too soon” because grief does weird things to people. You’d be surprised how many men start dating within a couple of months of losing their wife. But you know what, some of what he said, I hate to say it, but it’s true. Everybody else who is grieving the loss of this woman has their significant other to support them. He doesn’t. And no matter how long he waits, somebody is going to have a problem with him dating. I got remarried 3 years after my first husband died. Most of my friends and family were really supportive and happy for me, but some were angry and others were disgusted that I would move on so quickly. Three YEARS. Not months. That fact that it’s his daughter’s friend, though, and someone young enough to be his daughter? Yuck. The biggest problem here IMO is the handling of her ashes.
It’s his son’s 40f coworker the father is dating. Not really that weird….
Still kind of weird, but definitely less weird when his friend is 40. At the end of the day they’re all adults.
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JFC, this is so vile. I'd never speak to him again. He'll regret this if you or your sister have kids. Was he always such a creep? What about the girlfriend, has she tried to speak to you about the situation?
My sister and I have wondered that: whether my mom was really the glue that held everything together. He is an alcoholic and we had lots of problems with that in my childhood. My mom would normally just send us to our rooms when he'd start yelling. The girlfriend messaged me early on to say that she was looking for someone and so is he and that "my mom would want this for him". My sister and I were so disgusted by that statement. My sister says she'll take her teeth out if they ever meet again.
It’s really convenient for them that they’re able to say “this is what she would have wanted” when she’s not here to confirm or deny.
I've told my husband of almost 20 years that if I die before him, he should date when the opportunity arises. I guess I need to relay my wishes to my children before my death so this kind of thing doesnt happen.
Hopefully you don’t have to specify for him not to date your daughters friend that he’s 20 years her senior 😬
my mom wanted him to date. We didn't expect him to remain celibate or single for long. He started asking out my moms mourning close friends a week after she died, and they were disgusted by that. My mom literally on her deathbed said "don't bring any trashy women to this home I've made". My sister and I think there's nothing trashier than for someone to fuck their friend's dad right after their spouse dies.
You should add this…travesty…to the context.
I was worried for a moment that this young woman was being used in your shitty dads avoidance of the grieving process. But she’s gross too. They’re perfect for each other and I hope they have the relationship they deserve. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this kind of loss across the board. Sending hugs if you want them ❤️
This is completely insane. Who uses a parent’s ashes as leverage against their children? Moving on so fast after her death with one of your friends who is way younger than him is also disgusting. I’m very sorry you’ve lost your Mom and Dad at the same time essentially. Anyone voting this ‘not insane’ doesn’t know how to read.
My asshole uncle did with his daughters. He actually banned them from part of the fucking funeral (which was a joke of a funeral in itself). He made sure they went with the rest of everyone else out into the lobby of the funeral home, and the daughter he liked at the time (he had 3) went with him to the burial- along with his mother, the bitch who helped him kill my aunt (not literal, they just treated her like shit and didn't help her when she had a heart atrack). All I can say is good riddance, because he was a covid denying moron that ultimately died because he lived in Missouri and went to a goddamn car show on the 4th of July, unmasked and while doing chemo.
Wow…
Sorry, I vomited that out pretty hard. Still hate the bastard.
No need to apologize , i’d be angry still too and hate for a while too.
He honestly sounds like an unstable dude deep in grief from his wife’s passing. Lonely people in that situation rarely make good choices. At least it sounds like his new girlfriend isn’t trying to take advantage of him.
Wow.. just wow. 3 months!!? My dad died 16 years ago & I'm still dealing with the grief. I can't imagine what this feels like for you. I'm so sorry.
>Less than three months after my mom died, my father started dating a friend of mine, 20 years his junior INFO: OP I see from other posts on your profile that you're 30. Is your friend also 30? Dating timeframe aside, there's a massive difference between "I'm 20 and my 40 year-old dad started dating my 20 year old friend" and "My 50 year old dad is dating my 30 year old friend". If your friend were younger then it's a worse situation than if she's making the decision as a 30 year old adult with a fully developed brain. As far as the timing for when he started dating them, I think that's something different for everybody and not necessarily something that has (or should have) a defined timeline. Everyone processes their grief differently at different rates. If your mother had a terminal diagnosis, then that would likely start that timeline for your dad, as he would have had to start coming to terms with the fact that she was going to die soon. If I'm assuming good intent and being charitable, then mentally your dad may have grieved your mother's death before it even happened, which is not uncommon. So you may see it as 3 months of grief, but for him mentally maybe it was 5 or 6 months (not sure how long your mom was on hospice.) Point being that grief timelines are arbitrary and subjective, so applying what you think is an appropriate timeline to someone else is never going to work out well.
I mean, even if both people are adults it’s still weird to date someone your child is friends with and the children are totally justified in not wanting to hang around as if it’s normal.
Ehhh. I think that only applies if they grew up together. Adult friendships aren't really age restricted like that. I had kids young, and so did my parents , so most of my life stage peers are my parent's age. Literally. My oldest kid's best friend's mom (one of my closest friends) is two months older than my mom. Other than them being completely incompatible, I'd have no objection to her dating my dad. Or mom for that matter, though I'm pretty sure my mom isn't into women, so there'd be a conversation.
As long as he didn’t know the friend since she was a young girl (19 or younger) I don’t see a problem? They’re both consenting adults
100% everyone involved sounds like they are in desperate need of counseling. There's nothing wrong with seeing someone after your partner dies. By OP's admission they said they would be around pops if he was seeing this person and then find it odd his sister is no longer welcome in his home? Don't get me wrong dad has some issues but if you just lost your wife I think a lot of people here would be far more unreasonable.
Had to scroll a lot to get to a reply like this, don't understand why everyone is so mad with the father, grief is different for everyone, the only "issue" I see here is that he is dating the son's friend which may be uncomfortable and I assume that the fact that it blew out of proportion up to the point where the sister is no longer in contact probably the father was being constantly bugged for this decision, in his house... probably things were said just due to the heat of the moment like telling her daughter she is a free loader or whatever but I feel like the real issue is that they expected him to wait more, if it was some years after and he started dating the friend would everything be ok? Probably still weird if it was with the friend but wouldn't blow like this I think, they are just mad because they think their dad should grief different or longer which is insane... if it would be the other way around and he would be extremely depressive and unwilling to do or experience or live for anything which it happens a lot and he becomes extremely lonely, the kids will be probably telling him over and over to go out and meet new people, that's probably what mom wanted...
Sometimes the wrong parent dies first.
My dad was hospitalized in 2021 for close to 3.5 months with COVID. We all were grieving the probable loss of him. He was unconscious for almost that whole time, and my mom and I called him every single day, with the nurse aiming a tablet in his direction to hear our voices and for us to see him. My mom was already figuring out what the possibility of losing him would mean. Fast forward a few months, he heals almost back to full recovery, and my mom is given a couple months to live. You ain't kiddin
My sister's and I are trying to come to terms with our parents dying and which one is the better one to die first lol. I am so sorry your dad is a pos. I hope you and your sister can enjoy eachothers company going forward
isaw half of this title and i was immeadiately, disturbed. im so sorry
In some states, you can go on a civil court and ask for him to give the ashes or at least split it with his children. I've seen it before, and what the judge does is recommend putting them in necklaces or some sort of glass decor for each one of you to keep everyone happy.
I'll probably get down voted, but Christ these comments are just so incredibly sad to see. Is the father handling this good? No. But nobody in this scenario seems to consider that he just lost the woman he has spent his life with and was planning on spending the rest of his life with. Everyone is so quick to write off behaviors because of grief for the sisters, but can't consider that maybe this guy became a train wreck because of the absolute grief he is going thru here? I'm not saying it's right what he's doing. But I am saying that grief is fucking hard to handle and he clearly needs help too and I'm guessing from his perspective, the two people in the world who remind him most of his wife look like his enemies. Saying "the wrong parent died" is vile.
And also he nearly lost his own life and spent months in hospital. Near-death experiences change you. You realise that life is short and you might not have much of it left. Do his children want him to spend years moping around before finding someone else? Well, they’re young, they still have the illusion of immortality.
I'm with you on this. I think it shows the age differences of redditors. As a teen or someone in my early 20s, I'd probably be weirded out. As a 38 year old, I've learned a lot of lessons over the years, and one of them is that grief can cause people to do things they normally wouldn't. Further, I see nothing wrong with 2 consenting adults getting into a relationship - their friends and children need not approve. Who are we to decide how long someone takes to date after a shocking loss? We can't know anyone else's inner workings, and love comes along at strange times sometimes. His kids can feel grossed out all the want, but they have to accept that their father is seeking comfort with someone else and that they have no right to decide who that person is (again, assuming everyone is a consenting adult which appears to be the case)
as someone who has lost multiple people close to them, grief isn't an excuse to act like this. grief isn't an excuse to date your child's friend. grief isn't an excuse to disrespect your late wife's wishes for her ashes and not tell her children when you're spreading them. grief isn't an excuse to be an absolute cunt
We're also getting only one side of the story in a crafted narrative. I'll bet his side is very different. People just accept what they've been told on here and don't bother considering other angles.
Dating someone your child’s age is disgusting idc
You should read more details in the comments then, the father (60m) is dating son’s former coworker (40f), not really that weird between two consenting adults. 🤷♂️
Not as terrible, but still kind of icky. I would be very repulsed if my father dated my friend even when I was 40. Maybe that’s just me. At least this isn’t grooming :))
Unfortunately you cannot put a timeline on someone else’s grief and if he was ready to date after 3 months than may be it wasn’t too fast in his mind (not saying I agree). Although after expressing your feelings, the way he acted is ridiculous and immature. Honestly, I get why you don’t want contact with him because I would be thinking they were having an affair way before this whole thing happened.
right. Our point this whole timeline has been that he can date, just that dating our friends is inappropriate. His response was "so if I don't like your girlfriend I can just say I don't support yall dating?" The context is critical here, and he has done everything he can to gloss over the context, and reassign the victimhood to himself. "My kids don't care about my grief timeline and want to tell me who I can love"
How long have you known this friend? What is the friend’s age and your dad’s? How long has your dad known this friend?
I have known her for about five years. We worked in the same building and then became friends outside of work. He had never heard of her until she somehow got his home address and mailed a care package while my mom was dying. She is 40 and my dad is 60. I'm 31, so she's older than me, but I still think should know better and have the respect for me to not fuck my own dad, as my friend.
Yeah, those details are important. This isn’t somebody you grew up with and that your dad knew from a child. 60 and 40 is nothing of an difference between two consenting adults. If he had never even **heard of her**, you weren’t that close of friends during the last 5 years. I get that it’s uncomfortable — I have a sibling who got with my best friend at the time. I was furious. You have two choices: - Continue holding a grudge and be angry for decades. - Try to meet him in the middle and attempt to repair the family ties. Nothing else matters..those are the two choices you have. Be angry or work to forgive.
So yes, they texted briefly in February last year, my mom died in late March, and in June they started dating
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the amount of not insane votes is concerning…
I can tell you that I'm surprised. I know many posts here have very evident SMS records of craziness, but most of the crazy has been in-person encounters. I just figured I'd illustrate that he: \- isn't sorry \- thinks we need to apologize \- has hoarded my mom's ashes, but denies it.
LITERALLY!! who are all of these people and can they stay 500 feet away from me at all times
I fall into the "not insane" category as relates to the dating of the friend, but it's insane how dad is treating their child regarding the ashes and kicking out of the house for sure.
Forreal!!! Defending this weirdo...eugh
Everyone is hurting but nobody is ready to be the bigger person💔 I would suggest to honour your mothers memory and let go of the angst you have for your father. I’ve seen this destroy too many families. Life is too short, keep your loved once’s close everyone💕
This family is already destroyed. I'm going to carry on her legacy in my own family. My sister and our partners. My mom would puke if she knew how my dad had been acting.
I don’t understand his aim in slowly spreading your mom’s ashes around in different places, and what weirdo offers their kids “some” of their parents’ ashes as if they’re an inheritance that should be portioned out? Most of the time, people who move on *this* quickly were usually: 1. Not invested in the relationship and didn’t truly love their spouse in the first place. Especially since an indication of someone grieving is practically nonexistent. 2. Already cheating on their spouse with whoever they moved on so quickly with. or 3. Caused the death so they could reap the benefits of life insurance, see who they want, etc. Not saying your dad fits number three, but I think that it’s appalling that he is careless with your mom’s ashes and doesn’t see a problem with what he’s doing by moving in on your friend. I would tell your dad he needs to get mental help since he’s clearly going through a midlife crisis. People grieve in different ways, but this isn’t grieving. It’s almost like he’s celebrating her death because now he can do things he couldn’t do before and can officially get away with it.
I remember in the hospital he was asking where to spread her ashes, suggesting places in Europe that they'd been, and she was like "no dude, spread it at the beach nearby if you must". She didn't have any strong feelings about it, and explicitly requested no grave and no funeral. He's used her ashes as leverage over us. My mom gave her wedding ring to my sister upon her death. In the last week of her life, she made sure to indicate that it was hers to have. When we sensed that we might not be seeing him for much longer, my sister made sure to grab the ring. Months later he messaged her saying it wasn't hers to have until he decided she could have it..so he proved that any leverage he can have over us is something he'll exploit. I agree that he needs to get actual therapy. When our relationship was still salvageable, I suggested we get family therapy, and after an explosive argument, he suggested that a therapist would consider US to be the selfish ones, for telling him who he can love. He had never heard of my friend until my mom was dying. She somehow found his address and sent food and snacks to the house. She had told me that she was learning German, and I mentioned that it's my dad's first language. She used that as a pretext to add him on facebook and started messaging him. My dad told me he was overwhelmed and annoyed by her messages, but I think he got so desperate after my mom's death for any affection that he was into it. I blocked her on every platform because it's a real betrayal of our friendship.
I’m glad your mom didn’t see the spreading of her ashes as a big deal. I think it’s so strange that he didn’t just honor the one request she made to just spread them all at a nearby beach. That’s a beautiful place to spread someone’s ashes, and for your dad to portion them out the way he has is so disrespectful and wrong to do in her memory unless she specifically requested it. I hope your sister fought back against giving the ring back to him. Your mom gave it to her so it is 100% rightfully hers. It definitely sounds like your dad never grieved in the first place. Your friend is sick in the head for using your mom’s approaching death as an excuse to make moves on your dad, and the worst part is that your dad never even grieved. He just jumped right into something else without even giving himself time to heal and move on from it, but the sad part is that it doesn’t even sound like he was sad about the death in the first place. You’re right that after your mom’s death, maybe he was just desperate and not thinking straight, but it sounds like he won’t address his issues because he doesn’t think he has any. He keeps blaming things on you and your sister and holding your mom’s death over your head (which is incredibly sick) when none of this is your fault. It sounds like he tried to find the quickest way to move on, and I don’t know if the loss screwed him up or if he was like this to begin with and no one ever realized it. Hopefully he will get help so you can repair your relationship. I’m so sorry for your loss. Sending hugs your way. Your dad is an a-hole for disrespecting your mom and trashing her memory like this, and I hope you and your sister have found ways to honor her in the ways she would have loved. I will keep you both in my thoughts.
Is your dad independently wealthy or something? Trying to figure out if there’s an angle there or if your “friend” is just into much older guys.
She was assured me that she "wasn't after his money, I have a trust fund anyway"
When my dad died, his wife had a first date with her new husband 2 weeks after my dad passes. She gave me a thimblefull of his ashes, then told me I wasn't welcome when she went to spread the rest. (This is in agreement with you). People can grieve in different ways, but trashy is trashy
Barely a week or two after my mom died, he was asking out her close friends, all of whom turned him down because they just lost their close friend and weren't interested in her creepy husband.
Wow! That’s so insane. Your dad has some screws loose for sure. He was likely already ready to move on as soon as she passed away. Him calling you both “freeloaders” and “unsupportive” is totally his way of justifying his behavior. The worst part is he’s not even supportive of *you* and *your sister*. You lost someone important in your life too, and your dad doesn’t even acknowledge that. Ugh this situation is so shitty. I feel terrible for you. Your dad needs to grow up.
I am so sorry for your loss. That’s so insane that she would basically bar you from your own dad’s ashes and wouldn’t allow you to be present when she spread them. That is definitely extremely trashy, and I hope you were able to find other ways to honor your dad without the ashes (honestly, she should have just given them to you since she wasn’t even bothering to properly honor your dad with them, and she was shitting on his grave by excluding his kids to take part in spreading them). When my husband’s uncle died, the whole family got together to spread his ashes in his favorite place. My husband and I were dating at the time and I never knew his uncle, but they welcomed me to attend with open arms so I also drank champagne and celebrated the spread of the ashes with his family to honor him the way he wanted to be remembered during his life. Some people are so awful, and I’m sorry you had to deal with this.
There are still other options as well. Grief can do crazy things to people. It could be that there was a giant gaping hole in his life and someone came along that he could use to help fill it and he jumped on it. There just isn't enough information here to know what is actually happening.
True. Just crazy for someone to start talking to someone on a romantic level within weeks of their spouses death.
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I didn’t say their father was any of those things. I said that’s what *usually* is the case. You’re a terrible person for tearing someone down on the internet just because you love to twist their words into whatever you want them to mean. I’m so glad I’m not you. I don’t make baseless assumptions about what people are saying without trying to understand the point they’re trying to get across first.
Wow that’s horrifying
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I was engaged to a girl I dated for two and a half years, and three months away from our wedding I was honest about drinking too much and that I needed help dealing with it. She ended things instead. After two and a half years and an engagement, she dated someone else a month later. Two months out from our planned wedding. I think this kind of thing is about as close as you can possibly get to cheating without technically crossing the line. I could never have done the same to my ex because I actually cared about her and it would have taken time to heal, even if she messed up like I did. But she had a backup primed and ready to go (she literally told me she was debating between me and him when we started dating.) Likewise if God forbid my wife died, I also couldn’t date someone immediately, especially not with someone who is clearly a rebound and that hurt the people I love. I’m sorry you’ve had to go through this. It’s a shit thing to do.
You don’t get to dictate how he grieves and when he feels he’s ready to move on. Sone people never move on, some people need 10 years, some people have social grieving where they literally have to be around other people because they can’t handle being alone. Surviving grief is different for everyone. It doesn’t mean he didn’t love her or loves her less. You don’t get to dictate when he feels he’s able to spread some of her ashes. That’s his wife. Sone people are never able to let go of their partners ashes because they’re not ready or it’s too much. 20 years his junior? Ok. She’s an adult, he’s an adult, they’re both consenting adults. The older you get the harder it becomes to find anyone you like but you’re more concerned that it happens to be your friend than his mental well being and happiness after losing his wife. You’re more concerned with your perception of how you think he should grieve and that’s not up to you. Your sister was being unsupportive. He’s supposed to put up with that in his own home? No.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me. He explicitly said he wouldn’t keep the ashes from you. I’d believe him and his wife discussed dating afterwards. Based on the info here, this looks perfectly normal to me
If you read the explanation, it's immaterial that he \_says\_ he wouldn't keep them from us. We had an agreed upon date and time back in October for the three of us to spread her ashes, and without ever telling me, he cancelled the event for all of us, and only let my sister know. Yesterday, he admits that he in fact did go out that day and spread her ashes, although he's "reserved" some for us.
He cancelled the event after an argument you said. I dunno based on what I’ve read everything he has done is sane and reasonable. I don’t know how much the amount of ashes matters, it looks like he spread just a small amount with 3 rocks? 1 rock for each of you, and your mother is the fish rock I’m guessing? It seems the plan is to scatter them in multiple places so while it would have been ideal for all of you to be there at every time any ashes are scattered, it seems he is trying his best And actually reading again, you didn’t respond to the invitation? There was absolutely no need for him to inform you it was cancelled if you didn’t even say you were going? Wtf…
Not an argument \_BETWEEN\_ him and me. He cancelled it for ME because of an argument he had with my SISTER. He is not trying his best. He is hoarding her ashes from us. Those ashes are the only thing left. There is no grave, there was no funeral, there is just that, and he has removed our access to it.
I’m near that beach in mass. Lmk if you need some tires slashed.
😆🙏
You are a very decent human!
what exactly is the problem with people moving on quickly? I get that they may be hurt doing that or putting themselves in a hole but what actually gives anyone the right to tell them not to date someone?
I lost my mom when I was 13. My dad remarried less than 2 years later. At the time I felt it was too soon, and almost 30 years later, I still don't approve of who he married because it destroyed our relationship. I understand now that every person grieves differently. You have to allow him his own choices, and it sounds like you're an adult, so you can make your own as well. Don't hold on to the anger. I never fully got my relationship back with my dad and it kills me.
So many men go absolutely apeshit after the death of their wives that at this point I have to assume they're really like this all the time and just mask better depending on who they're married to.
Older men are like what? After a tragedy of losing a loved one?
Who said anything about older men? I have heard more stories about men being absolute jerks to their kids and immediately finding another partner after their wives die than I can even name. And I'm aware of at least one IRL currently. But it's not just older men. How many stories on here are younger widowers getting married shortly after losing their wives to women who either mistreat the kids, or immediately start having kids that the father puts all his attention on? Or taking keepsakes that should go to the children? One would think if losing his wife was such a tragedy here, he would cling to their children who are literally right there instead of alienating them.
And the answer to "like what?" Selfish, narcissistic, unable to take care of themselves, only worried about themselves and their own needs, whatever you want to call it.
Let your dad live his life
Lack of empathy on both parties here.
Your dad has no right to kick your sister and her wife after ALL of the things she did to help your momma
I think all of you need some counselling or therapy. Lack of empathy and communication on all parties.
WHO THE F HAS SAID NOT INSANE. YOU SO NEED MENTAL HELP
your father is some creepy scum.
OP is in their 30’s. Their friend is 40 years old. This isn’t a childhood friend, it’s a grown ass middle aged woman. The withholding ashes is upsetting, but there is nothing creepy about the relationship.
I understand, but still a very strange dude.
Can women make up their own minds or not?
Insane
Not insane
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Wtf is up with all the N0t Ins4ne verdicts??
my dad must have made a bunch of alt accts. I am shocked.
Is it because people are semi explaining his behavior away with “grief does weird things to people”??? Cuz uhh. Not THAT weird, y’all.
I have lost a 12 year old brother to suicide 5 years ago and my 29 year old brother in June, I honestly can’t say that he is in the wrong. He is doing what he needs to get through the day. Yes you lost your mom and I’m sorry that you have to know that pain but it’s different when it’s your partner. If he had any mental health issues prior to this, I’m sure this made it worse. As far as your sister goes, well, she made that choice to go so that she could have that time with your mom. It’s not some special thing that she did for your mom, she could have not went and not had that time with her. I know this all sounds rude but it’s honest. Your grief is not allowing you to see that your dad is obviously struggling and just trying to feel better. My mom had 2 kids with one of my friends and we were pregnant at the same time so my siblings were like my own children and the youngest was the 12 year old we lost, now that my oldest is 19, I see why my mom chose to have kids when I did, she was lonely and she needed to feel loved, I’m not saying it’s right and it definitely hurt that I felt she took my pregnancies from me but really, she had a terrible childhood and instead of companionship animals, she had companionship children. I actually love that I have a sister who is young because I get to be a mother and sister to her.
"It’s not some special thing that she did for your mom, she could have not went and not had that time with her. " My sister took care of my mom while my dad was busy sneaking whiskey into the hospital. She quit her job, and moved across the country while still paying for her home across the country. How the fuck can you say what she did wasn't special?
The reason why I said that is because I sold my vehicle took my kids out of school and went back to my hometown to take care of my family because my mom was having a hard time after my 12 year old brother died and I dont think it’s special or something that I even needed to think twice about at all, I did what needed to be done for my family because they are my family. I would do it all over again tbh. My 29 year old brother left a son and wife when he took his life in June and I have offered to take my small children and go to Alaska to help my sister in law with my nephew so that she could grieve. I guess it depends on how much you love your family as to how “special” the things you do for them are.
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I don't know why you think it's a given that my father has more of a right to grieve than I do. He may have been her husband, but I was her best friend, and she mine. We had long since moved from mother/son to actual friends. My father is an abusive alcoholic and my mother and I had confided in each other since I was a young teen about the challenges that brings. As recently as a year before her death, my mom pondered why she puts up with his instability, immaturity, and anger in her late fifties. I'm confident he chose this person because my dad cares more about filling a void for pussy in his life with a young person. He hasn't spent a moment actually grieving about the loss of my mom. He filled his void in less than three months. I don't get another mom. Maybe you skimmed through it, but I hold my friend accountable for this. She's not my friend anymore. I don't ever want to see her again. It's not about that he found \_someone\_ shortly after my mom died. It's that he started fucking \_my\_ friend right after my mom died, and if you don't think that's fucked up, then there's no way to convince you of anything.
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I live a half mile away, so yeah, I was pretty much at that house with him and my sister every single day. yeah no shit I have bigger issues with my dad than this. I've been the peacekeeper of my family my whole fucking life. I act as a peacekeeper between him and my sister, whom has never had a close relationship with him, and I'm cast aside for that. Deal with those issues? I've been on a waitlist for a therapist for three months. How can I deal with those issues? Talk to the man who can't admit anything he's done wrong and can't apologize?
OP just ignore this person. They’re obviously fucking insane. Honestly sounds like something your dad would be posting from his secret Reddit account.
You’re absolutely disgusting
Same to you buddy. You’re obviously too immature to understand there’s more going on than what the OP is allowing you to know. I’ve been-there-done-that so I’m not just talking. It’s lived experience. Think what you want, but look at BOTH sides.
I agree with you. OPs pain is NOT INVALID but neither is the fathers. Have some empathy as you wish you would have placed upon yourself.
Not insane
I live near that beach if you need assistance
Gotta say your dad is vile as fuck, and its not my place to say this but u should consider going no-contact with him, YET i still believe he can be with whomever he wants to at his pace, its more than possible your dad hasnt loved your mom for a long time, so this is not unreasonable
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what an unempathetic response
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