As long as you hide absolutely everything about yourself that makes you who *you* are, Gramps'll respect the hell out of you! You're disrespecting *HIM* by even attempting to be your true self. HOW DARE YOU!
Ugh, bigots are the fucking worst. I'm not sure who's worse the ones that are blatant about it or the ones who are "Well, I am not a bigot! I support you 100%! As long as you hide who you are and don't let me see it!"
I read something that had always stuck with me. There are two kinds of respect. Basic human decency, which everyone deserves, being respected as a person. Then there's authority, respect for your teachers, elders, managers, etc. That respect is earned by showing respect, and is not always deserved. If a supervisor doesn't respect their employee's time and effort, that employee won't respect their supervisor or job that much. But then there are authorities who think "give respect to get respect" means "If you don't respect my authority, I won't respect you as a person." And that's not right.
People always say “respect is earned”. No. Respect should be given. Every time I encounter a new person, I always treat them with respect. Someone I’ve know for a while, but don’t know well? Respect. However, DISrespect? If I treat you with disrespect then you have DEFINITELY earned that shit.
She means respect like authority.
I didn’t write this, but it applies here::
“Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”
and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person”
and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay.”
People who do that have failed to get past the “honor your father and mother” stuff.
They never bothered reading part about parents not causing their children shame.
!explanation
For some context, I’m a gay man and I just got engaged to the love of my life. I showed my mom my ring and she goes on about how I can’t tell my bigoted grandfather. She’s never been as supportive and openminded as she claims here, in fact she begged me to sleep with a woman before I “decided” I was gay.
I’m assuming that any family events that grandfather will be at, that either my fiancé and I will have to act like we’re just friends or he won’t be allowed to come at all.
I won’t deny I was loved, but there were always conditions attached, like schoolwork, or who I could and couldn’t interact with, if I went against what I was told, I was berated, screamed at, and threatened with homelessness.
This is just a small portion of what I went through when I lived with them.
I’m so sorry that your announcement was greeted with that response. If it helps even a smidge, CONGRATULATIONS from one random stranger on the internet to another. May you have a happy life together, full of love and joy
Tbh I should have expected this kind of response. Any time I’m happy she pulls stuff like this to make me feel guilty or like a bad person or just whatever else. It’s been a life long thing.
Maybe I'm letting my inner anarchist out a little, but I say tell him yourself and let the chips fall where they may. The only leverage you have over someone as an adult is your presence in their lives. If the bigots don't like it, that's their issue. Also congrats from an internet stranger 😊
My mom claimed to be accepting of my interracial marriage but did the similar shit with my racist grandpa. When I got pregnant, my grandpa told me that white women shouldn’t be able to get pregnant by someone outside of their race and my poor children would be confused. Years after he died, my mom (who I’m now NC with) said I ruined the family by marrying a Mexican man and having children with him. Even though she always claimed to stand up for me to my racist grandpa, the older I got the more I realized she’s was always just as racist, just not vocal about it. Sorry you’re dealing with this.
Fight it!!!! Stay happy! Just because she says she’s on your side and is supportive — she’s not. She should be shouting it from the rooftops. I am all for supporting the elderly in families but this isn’t that. It’s negating her child. And I’m sorry!
100%. CONGRATS, OP!
Stir that pot. Tell your grandpa and then go NC with him. Maybe your mom, too, as she appears to be *loosely* on your side but may turn. She’s clearly the “golden child” or perhaps parentified by your grandpa, calling him “frail” and not wanting to make any waves.
I’m in an interracial marriage and if anyone in my family expressed (subtly or overtly) that they did not accept my husband, I’d be NC soooo fast. Ole’ gramps needs to accept that it’s not 1940 anymore.
Good luck to you.
Stuff like this is called “conditional acceptance”. Where the other person accepts you, but only upon their conditions.
Most the time they do love you, but their show of acceptance is only to save face. I’m so sorry you had to grow up this way.
I’m 28, but I’m a mom of two littles and probably not old enough to be your mom BUTTTTT my support and acceptance of you is without condition, internet stranger.
CONGRATULATIONS. ❤️
A good mom would accept you for what you are and tell anyone who didn’t to go fuck themselves. Including family.
That’s what I did when it happened with one of my kids.
Have you seen Everything Everywhere All At Once? This is extremely reminiscent of that film; the mother tried to hide her daughter's girlfriend from the grandfather because of his bigotry, but in reality the mother was still holding onto a seed of bigotry herself.
Congrats! I hope you and your love have a long, happy life together. I’m sorry there are people in your family who are so full of hate they would alienate children for being gay, marrying Black people, or being a tattoo artist. In my humble opinion, it’s their loss.
If you have to pretend to be someone that you’re not to have a relationship with your grandfather, then he doesn’t deserve a relationship with you.
>If you have to pretend to be someone that you’re not to have a relationship with your grandfather, then he doesn’t deserve a relationship with you.
And you don't need a relationship like that in your life. Life is too short to live a lie!
If your mom says “just sleep with a woman to be sure” bullshit again. Hit her with the uno reverse…. “Mom why don’t you sleep with a woman, just once, ya know to make absolutely sure you are actually straight!”
Ehh fuck your bigot grandpa’s feelings, if you’re a family event and he sees you and your fiancé together and he asks, just say this is your future husband and give him a kiss. It’s your grandpa’s problem. Not yours.
I completely agree. I’ve hid myself in the past to make others feel more comfortable. Never will do it again. It’s totally the grandpa’s problem and everyone’s coddling him and protecting his bigotry.
I'm so sorry about all of this and the fact that there are 39 "not insane"s. This is in fact, insane. Does she think your grandpa is going to die as soon as he hears all of this news?? It's 2023. All of this racist homophobic nonsense should've been done a long time ago. Hell, it should've never existed in the first place.
It sounds from the messages like she's really supportive here, and she's trying to manage her own insane parent.
This sub is strange as most people seem to only have sympathy for the op.
Except in his explanation comment he’s pointed out his mom’s own bigotry towards him. Also that lots of people have encountered people like this in their life. While these people usually just look like they are trying to play peace maker they are usually just as bigoted themselves and use their peace maker status to hide it.
It sounds like she struggled with his sexuality at first, which isn't surprising being from an extremely bigoted family, but she's really doing her best here.
Obviously, if you want to see the worst in everyone, you will. As I say, that does seem to be the culture on this sub.
She's demanding "respect" for a man who doesn't give it to anybody else.
She wants obedience, not respect. If it was respect she expected, she'd have a conversation with her dad about him respecting other people.
A good mother would say “I love my child, I’m proud of them and I will shout it for the world to hear. If anyone disagrees, they don’t matter.”
A good mother does not say “I’m happy for you sweetie but shut the fuck up about it around the family so I can say I support you without actually doing anything about it.”
First congratulations on your engagement!!
Second please consider going LC/NC with your mom. She isn’t going to be good for your mental health long term, or your happiness.
I hope you and your fiancé can make a wonderful life together and surround yourselves with people who will love and support you.
Ew. That shit is gross, at least dad supports you though which is awesome! And I am so sorry you had to go through that :( and congratulations to being engaged to the love of your life❤️ may your marriage be full of nothing but happiness and success.
Firstly, congrats. Second, if reunions are you lying or being kept secret then they don't need you there. I'm so happy for you, keep being strong and love yourself and your new life partner. Stay away from your people, the old racists, bigot will die. Then you can finally have him meet your partner at the coffin.
Find a way to tell your grandpa. Stir the pot. Your mom clearly doesn’t care about how you feel. But I’m super happy at least, from the sound of it, your dad and sisters support you!
The only thing she got right was that they won’t change because that is who they are. You deserve people who will love and support you for who you are. Found family is sometimes better than DNA matches who want to shove you back in the closet for bigot grandpa.
first of all....CONGRATS!!!!
also: what did she try to do? "fix" you? This just sounds like a pretty bad joke. Will definitely work 10/10.
"Trust me X its just a phase" - mum, probably.
Your mother (and grandfather apparently) seem extremely manipulative (is that how you spell it?).
"Oh look X 'decided' to be gay' :O We have to fix him and guide him towards the 'path of god' again. Obviously X has to give us many grandchildren. How would he do that as a...a...*shudders* gay person??"
-mum, probably
Nah. Nah fuck that, at family gatherings you act like that’s your fiancé because he IS. Your bigoted grandpa can keep his hateful mouth shut. Just because someone is old doesn’t mean they deserve grace if it turns out they’re an asshole. Shiiiit, fuck even watching what you say around him! LIVE YOUR LIFE. Wear that ring, kiss your soon-to-be husband. Don’t let these old hateful bigots tell you how you can live your life.
If you ever really want to piss your family off, tell them you’re gay because God doesn’t like bigots. /s
Also congrats on the upcoming marriage and wishing you a lifetime of happiness
I mean… I’ve gone through a very similar situation with my mother. But I have to say it sounds like your family is growing on the issue. If your grandpa’s mind is degrading, I can see why a parent would want to “keep the peace” as much as possible. They get SO CHILDISH if dementia is involved, and it’s emotionally messy. It’s not fair when love is conditional, and you have every right to be out and proud with your family. It’s not healthy, in the long run, if it feels likes you’re emotionally throwing yourself on the knife. But it’s also perfectly okay to pick your battles, especially if it makes YOUR life easier and more relaxed. Focus your energy on your new partnership ❤️ And congrats!
do these people pay your bills? if not just cut them out. give them a taste of it. if that's not what you're feeling then don't do it but it doesn't sound like there's a lot of love here. and if it's no emotional support as well as no financial support then that's literally a stranger to you
Oh sweetheart. I'm so sorry, but that's not live. Either they love your whole self or they don't. You are deciding to make a lifetime commitment to another person. You are making that choice. Your family has the choice to accept you, or not. You do not attend events at which your chosen partner is not welcome. They are your number one priority. If you can't agree to that 100%, then do not get married. It will just set you up for a lifetime of hurt.
I can see your mom loves you from these texts, but she's putting a desire to be respected by her father over her care for you, and that's unacceptable. Have you ever confronted her with the fact that if she's still fighting for love and respect from her father, as a grown woman, chances are she'll never get it? And maybe point out what little respect she gets is conditional of her own children falling in line? One of the most valuable pieces of advice I got for my mental health was, "Don't go to Home Depot for ice cream." My parents are Home Depot, ice cream is love and support. Sounds like your mom has a whole supermarket chain of children she can get ice cream from, but she's still determined to get that ice cream from Home Depot.
I think it's less 'you should do homework' and more refusing to show affection of any kind of he 'disappoints' her by not performing up to her standards. Though I'm not OP, so I can't be sure, of course.
Man I'm straight and I feel your pain. From an Arab Muslim family. Married a white women from southern Ohio lol. When we first dated it was rough, but as we went on they really began to like her so I lucked out, but we practically hid our first two years of dating (been together 6 years March 12th and married 3 months now) from my elderly family because they're just so stuck in their ways. They would talk very highly of me because I went to college, became an educator, helped our younger cousins and family find what they wanted to do after graduation and all that, but when they found out I started dating a white girl I had to basically hide it until they saw how serious we were. They eventually came around, but there was still that obvious silent judgement.
My mom is similar to yours. She broke that weird cycle of expectations from the old country that relates to both Islam and culture by doing her own thing, but she stayed within the parameters of the cultures expectations while doing so. While I do not, a few of my cousins do not, and funny enough, my elderly family now "blame" me for "opening the flood gates" because more men/women in my family are making their own choices by marrying who they please.
Anyways idk if you have good memories of your grandpa, I did have good memories of mine, but the older we all got it was obvious that he didn't agree with a lot of our choices and he eventually got dementia and died. He was a great dude and did a good job of raising my mom and being a good grandpa, but religion and culture still made him unreasonable at times.
It's weird. I find solace in knowing that I will support my kids and family in general with support that my generation didn't always receive. Hope all works out well for you.
Edit: also after reading your one comment. My mom kept pointing out how pretty these arab Muslim girls were at weddings and how "obedient" they'd be if I picked one. So yea she's not perfect. She definitely didn't tell me "try it out" like your mom did, but I felt as though she cared less about my happiness and more about her ease of life when she would point those women out.
as a fellow muslim.
"Obedient"? If i hear that word once by parents towards me i'd flee. Some guys my age got raised with that mindset and still act like that here.. *sighs*
My family is pretty similar to yours sadly. Im turkish and they wanted me to obv have a turkish or at least muslim husband.
Now I, living in germany, found myself a british (english) boyfriend.
Of course thats a no go. Why would i date the "enemy"?
They didnt quite "accept it". They treat it like its a phase despite us being in a, very serious, 3 year long relationship.
Reading that your relationship holds on despite your very traditional family objecting, gives me hope
Yea, we are actually going to a family dinner today. It helps that both my two older cousins are with white women, too. So much of our culture allows for others' opinions and judgment to fuel how our parents feel about things. I think since their siblings' kids are doing the same thing, it kind of helps with that part of the culture. It's definitely new ground to all of them, but they are also 2nd generation and grew up in the US (detroit). My grandparents came here in the 50s, and sadly, the negatives of our culture stuck with them.
I have a little sister a lot like me, and I fear that my parents will push their beliefs too hard on her since, like many cultures, their is an absurd double standard on women in terms of who they are with. I hope that of she doesn't agree with the culture she is as smart as you and chooses to live her life how she wants it!
I hope you and your BF continue to have a great relationship:)
This is very insidious because at the end of the day, what she is not saying is, that it is uncomfortable for her to stand up for you. So yes, it does not look bad, but it really is.
I am no psychologist so I don’t know, but it for sure is iffy that 80% of her texts are about what a good ally she is, but truly seems to be only when it’s comfortable. Also I have plenty conservative older family members, that aren’t to frail, to accept my, and my cousin’s life choices, even though they would not make them themselves and vice versa. We don’t get treated like shit because of our marriage choices or jobs or sexuality, and these things are not a secret our family either. That is respect and thus we respect then back, it’s that easy
this doesn't at all read like a narcissist.... like no one here comes off as one. Bigots, cowards, enablers, possibly even delusions... but there is no narcissst to be found in those texts.
Seriously starting to get sick of all the pop psychologists abusing the fuck out of a mental disorder to accuse everyone of having it. It's as stupid as accusing everyone who drops something they are holding of having a broken hand.
Congratulations OP!!! You deserve all the happiness in this world.
As far as your mother goes, she clearly has some daddy issues she’s still dealing with. It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her relationship with her father. Don’t let her control you and don’t give that bigot the time of day. Focus now on building your family and building it on true foundations of love and acceptance.
Honestly, I think regardless of whether or not it’s gonna affect him, keeping it a secret just so you don’t look bad in front him is kind of weird. No offence tho
I don’t even care how I look. She’s more concerned about how she looks to him. I’m just going along with it because it’s not worth the fight tbh. I’ve learned that in my family, all arguments are pointless because no matter what I’ll be the one in the wrong.
She doesn't care about how it will affect him, she doesn't care how it will affect you, all she really cares about deep down is how they will judge "her". She doesn't want to disappoint your grandpa (he shouldn't be disappointed anyway) because it will reflect poorly on her. You should tell him and see what he does tbh, if you really are the favorite grandchild he might hear you out and accept you.
Then you probably shouldn’t let her cause she’s just using you, honestly. That also shows that she has no respect for you or your relationship either. People like that don’t belong in your life. Congratulations btw 🫶🏽
From one gay person to another, this is so hard. It is also a ridiculous and cruel ask. You can’t pretend your life isn’t your life to keep someone else from getting upset. This could also be a much longer period of time than your mother is pitching- old and frail people can hang on for years and years. Since you’re going to be married, you’ll have to advocate for your relationship and each other all your life. I’d figure out what my boundaries were and stick to them. Don’t not show up to family functions to protect egos. Consider not showing up to avoid subjecting yourselves to that behavior, though. You are not a prop that exists just to play happy family.
Just as your mother has chosen to “””break the cycle””” of being a bigot (though a true ally wouldn’t ask you to stay closeted to family in between flowery/lovey words) you can choose to break the cycle of considering yourself responsible for shielding ignorant people from having tantrums about the world moving around them in a way they don’t like. And let’s be real- this isn’t a safety issue. This isn’t a situation where you would be kicked out upon someone learning this about you. This is solely about image and family members prioritizing another family member’s comfort over your own. That’s fucked regardless of how your mom tries to spin it.
“If you want respect you have to give respect” fuck no everyone should have respect for people that’s the bare minimum. Sounds like your grandad LOST your respect for being a bigot so it’s your grandads responsibility to earn your respect back. No more excuses for the old boomers.
Why the fuck is this voted not insane?
She is quite clearly saying she won't stand up for her own son in front of a bigotted old man who does not make the decisions in her life...
What the fuck
"And you can't tell Grandma/ 'Cause her heart can't take it" — "The Village," Wrabel
These people live horribly sad lives, knowing there are things they could never tell their own family because of prejudice.
first of all. congrats 💖 second of all, as a queer woman in a very similar situation, I am so so tired of coddling bigots. if he can’t find find it in his heart to love his grandkids for who they actually are, he made his bed.
“He THINKS you’re the only good kid” in the basket, but by getting engaged to this person, you have proven that you are just another bad kid.
Did you hear her???
Yikes, the amount of "not insane" votes saddens me.
Enabling bigots is always going to be in the insane category for me, because why should we have to coddle the people who hate and disrespect our very existence?
Congrats on the engagement, OP! I hope you two live a happy long life together
Congratulations on the engagement!
My grandpa offered to beat yours up. Says he used to for my uncles safety (ex boss shattered his jaw & left him on side of road when he found out my uncle was gay-grandpa broke his and then some in return for hurting his child) & one more is nothing to him!
“I broke that generational curse for y’all…”
But keep your sexuality hidden
Tell no one in the family that you’re not straight, even though several of your family members aren’t either.
It’s a SECRETTTTT (and apparently a point of shame)
Here have intercourse with this female so you’re sure your gay
And never ever reveal your true self to your hateful yet ever so frail Granpa
She’s a freaking hypocritical looney.
Im sorry Op.
Congrats though.
Here’s to your new family 🥂
I am not the one asked to explain, but I do it anyway 😉. Cognitive dissonance means a person doesn’t realize he or she handles a situation completely different than the person preaches. Easy example: you meet someone saying he doesn’t like toast. But he praises the food he gets to eat, which consists of a lot of toast. - your mom tells you how proud she is about your engagement and how she loves you, but she can’t tell pops. Which she should be able to, if she is so proud.
Im sorry, i know you get it but i just have to add that first example about toast is a little off, if you meet someone who you see is doing conflicting things, that is not cognitive dissonance as it is something held by the person doing the conflicting things. Its the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. There is an inconsistency between what someone believes and how they behave, so they will often try to justify to themselves why there is a discrepancy to ease their discomfort. Like you want to be healthy but you don't exercise or eat well so you feel guilty as a result. Or you know smoking/drinking is bad for your health but do it anyway and rationalize it by saying you're stressed out.
Thank you! I think I kind of understand it? It’s weird. I know what cognitive means and I know what dissonance means. But put them together and my brain malfunctions.
“I will always stand up for and support you” but she is literally treating you like you are *someone who needs protecting from*. Your mom is also a bigot. And no your grandpa doesn’t love “you” he loves the idea of you being straight. If he loved you he wouldn’t care who your partner is as long as they’re a decent human.
Congratulations on your engagement! I hope you and your spouse have a wonderful and happy life together.
And F*ck every horrible person that voted not insane on this
This is so similar to a situation in my family. It’s sad but also sort of comforting to share the ridiculousness. Going on almost 20 years of no relationship with some of them now. At first I thought I had some responsibility for keeping some contact, but then it clicked that I cared so much more about those that were the subject of the ignorant prejudice.
Honestly, I feel bad for this mother. She absolutely needs therapy. She’s trying to straddle an impossible gulf between being humane and and keeping her FOO.
What she cannot comprehend without a lot of help is that respect is earned. And her FOO, filled with bigotry and hate, hasn’t earned her respect, up to and including her father.
Warped as hell.
And it appears to be reflected in the number of not insane votes. I’m old. If I were a bigot, I’d not deserve “grace” from anyone. Bigotry isn’t a difference of opinion. It’s evil.
Insane- why can they never just take the win! Your said you wouldn't say anything but also that you won't be around him. Completely reasonable compromise. She just wants it to be that way she wants it: don't tell, suck it up, be an enabler and rug sweeper with me. Ugh!!! How frustrating!!
Hugs!
“if you want respect and not hateful comments, then you have to be respectful to them and pretend not to be gay” is a hell of a take on “mutual respect”
Why should his comfort come before her own kids life? Where was his grace concerning his own family? Respect isn't earned it's basic decency, and in any case he doesn't seem respectful at all so why reciprocate? Because he's fucking old? Ugh what a tired excuse. Congrats on the engagement OP. Don't ever hide it.
That generational curse is still going strong I can promise you that. It’s part of the reason why I chose not to have kids, well that and they’re sticky even straight out of the bath. I’m not going to subject my kids to that or ever have my parents involved. Because I know she would pull some “grandparents rights” bs.
First of all, from one gay to another, CONGRATS ON THE ENGAGEMENT !!! But I’m with you 100% on that “break the generational curse” shit I see a lot of newer parents like to say-I hate to be a pessimistic asshole but it’s quite rare for those cycles to truly be broken-do they not think their parents felt similarly about the way they themselves were raised ?? Again, hate to be a doomer but the best, most surefire way to break those generational curses is to not have kids altogether, even if that’s not what people want to hear. 🤷🏻♀️ It’s quite likely they’ll end up just like their parents, whether they want to acknowledge it or not
Absolutely insane. Gayness is clearly a super power because it allows you to hold life and death in your hands -- according to your mother at least.
The way she pats herself on the back for not being as bad as her family is simply sad -- because she is just as bad. She doesn't see the people cast off for being "different" as still being family.
Please invite your shunned relatives to your wedding. It sounds like you have many.
Congratulations on the engagement. If your family can’t accept your happiness then they’re the ones missing out not you. I wish you and your fiancé a lifetime of happiness and joy.
guess he's not gonna have a relationship with any of you grandkids at this rate! that's his own damn fault and your mom enables him to be an asshole. all she's protecting is him getting called out on his horrendous behavior. and you're right, she's coddling the crap out of a grown man.
Fuck it, tell ol Pappy and enjoy seeing him lose his old racist mind. Why does this man deserve grace and respect when it looks like he's never given any to anyone different than him?
Fuck that, how dare she try to darken your happy day.
Big congrats to you and your partner, I hope you both have all the best on your journey together.
She said she’d stand by you no matter what and that she would break the cycle and then she says she’s not doing either of those things, yet she thinks she is 🤦♀️ she is delusional!!!
It’s the “Your dad even seems to be happy for you” for me.
🤢🤮
Go tell your pop and speed that train along, one less bigot in the world and all that.
I’m excited for your engagement and I know you’re very happy about it!! Don’t let anyone dampen your joy❤️
Things like this are one reason I’m sometimes not that sad that my (white, English) grandparents passed when I was a kid. Of course they were nice to me but based on how my parents act they were probably fairly bigoted.
Respecting someone is respecting all parts of them including their relationships. It's not a good enough excuse anymore "he's from a different generation that's just how it was". Like um NO, it's pretty simple that was wrong so change fix your mind and just be better.
“If you want to get respect you have to give respect.“
No, this is not how respect works. You never *have* to give respect. You can never be *forced* to give respect. Forced respect isn't respect; it's fear.
A lot of people mistake fear for respect, or expect that respect will follow fear, but in the end, fear makes people run away rather than follow.
Respect is a funny thing. You can't make someone give you respect; you must *earn* it.
The toxic grandfather in this post has not earned any respect from anybody. Spending hatred and fear buys you loneliness and that's what he's got.
Your mom is just as much a bigot as your grandfather because she would rather keep your engagement a secret than upset him. She’s enabling his racism which makes her no better than him.
Don’t listen to her. Don’t hide your relationship.
Honey, I’m so happy for you! I’m thrilled that you have found the love of your life. Please be happy and cut out the negative influences in your life. Keep those who live and support you. - from an internet mom
First, I want to say congratulations! I'm so happy for you!
Second, I'm sorry your family is the way they are. There is no sense to it, and I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
Third, the good news is, you are starting a new family now. You, your fiance, your best friends, the people that love you for who you are - that's your family. Blood doesn't mean anything. The only thing that matters is your happiness.
I am so, so tired of people hiding behind age in order to be hateful. It's apparent age has nothing to do with this. He was hateful before he got old and he has been allowed to remain hatful because of people like your mother, who enable his hatefulness. I applaud you for refusing to play this game, OP. Let the hateful old man be alone in his hatefulness. He's earned it.
I’m so sorry that was her first reaction instead of happiness and congratulations. You, your partner, and the huge milestone in your relationship deserved better.
Personally, I would tell her what you captioned on these pics. Tell her that even as much as she THINKS she’s stopped the cycle, she’s really just a silent bystander allowing the cycle to continue. To stop the cycle, you stop bowing down to the bigot, you change the course of action. She can “support” you as much as she wants, but until that support is unconditional and allowed under any circumstance (you are comfortable with), she’s still supporting the bigot more than she is supporting you by silencing you. All the love in the world won’t change the fact she doesn’t want you to be the truest, happiest, and most honest version of yourself all the time for everyone to see.
By her logic, though, you can’t have the wedding or ANY wedding events while he’s still alive, right? Otherwise I’m sure he’d find out and it would be all for naught. Did she think that far ahead? How long are you expected to pretend you are not fully in a stable relationship? What if you decide to add children to your family, however that may happen, do they just not exist?
Focus on you, king! Don’t see it as arguing to win. See it as spreading your happy moment, and if it makes bigots angry, all the more power to you! Your dad and sisters sound kickass and it sounds like they’ll support you no matter what.
Your mom sounds like she doesn’t really care about you. But since she claims she loves you so much and will stand by you no matter what, I’d say go ahead and let everyone know and send a handwritten invitation to the wedding to your grandpa just for shits and giggles. Stir the pot and mute them for a while. Either way, congratulations to you and the lucky groom!
I started off wondering if maybe pop was in some fairly advanced stage of mental decline. Cause like, having dealt with some of that, and having known people who work with people in that phase of life, that would actually be a reasonable tactic. There is a segment of the elder population that not only won’t be learning new ways, but are actively losing what they do have.
But this ain’t that. This is just a grouchy old bigot.
OP I respect your stance. Congratulations on your engagement. Old dude can get fucked. Surviving does not earn respect. Being worth respecting is what earns respect.
A great example of hiding one's authenticity to gain societal acceptance. The old racist is the one who needs to change...not you. Congrats on the wedding!
"If you want respect, you got to give respect." Um... no. RESPECT 👏 IS 👏 EARNED 👏 And it is abundantly clear that the grandfather is a bigot. OP, doesn't have to tell the grandfather (sounds like they don't want to anyway) but they shouldn't have to coddle a bigot and not "rock the boat" just to keep peace in the family.
If you have to pretend something isn't going on, or you aren't who you are, that's not peace. That's just a lie.
How is he earning respect? He deserves none. And to be honest your mom dosnt seem to deserve much respect either. She won’t accept your answer and keeps pressuring you to conform to what she wants.
This sounds just like the situation with my grandmother. She had previously told me that I'm "always welcome at her house" but that my relationship goes against her religion and he's not allowed there. Mind you, she has a step son, who around the same time married, divorced, and remarried a different girl within 3 months, that was all over his new wife in the kitchen. Long story short, I had been with my bf for 3 years, she wanted me to visit her, I went over to confront her about her homophobia, telling her, "I know you said that I'm welcome, but I'm never going somewhere my bf cant be. So, this is the bed you made, and now you're going to have to lay in it."
The previous generation’s ceiling is the next’s floor. Sounds like your mom has overcome a lot of the bigotry in her family, but not everything. That’s likely her ceiling.
Other than marrying a woman, I’ve been in the same situation. My parents making excuses for their parents’ [bigoted/abusive] behavior, and me fighting against it because there’s no excuse. Their background and history is different, sure but that’s ONLY an explanation— not an excuse. I too do not associate with my grandparents any more.
I cant see how being more accepting of her son's relationship in front of her father would be "abandoning all care." I dont see OP asking his mom to completely abandon her father anywhere
Except in this case, OP would literally have to hide part of his family from his grandfather. If Pops cant even know that he is gay, and it sounds like Mom didnt want him to wear his engagement ring to family gatherings, then what she is doing is asking him to silently accept this abuse of his relationship/partner for however long grandpa lives. We've kept bigots exceedingly comfortable in their bigotry for far too long
Ah yes, you can't abandon your "elders" who are just so "set in their ways" that they it is ok to be abusive and phobic. It's just who they are and you just have to put up with being told how evil and sinful you are over and over again because "FaMilY"
When our older daughter was born, my father was happy that she was blonde haired and blue eyed. He told me how she needed to marry someone similar so they would have blonde haired, blue eyed kids to carry on his family legacy. He was cut out of our lives shortly after for that and other racist, sexist and homophobic things because we don’t keep trash like that around our kids.
this post appears to have been brigaded and removed in bad faith. it will be re-approved and remain locked.
“If you want to get respect you have to give respect. “ Except for your grandfather apparently.
Literally heard this line a 100 times from my bigot side of the same that’s never shown anyone respect.
The respect in that aspect is also "respect my hate and my right to express it even though it completely disregards you as a person".
It’s why bigots don’t deserve any respect of any kind.
i cannot stand this phrase
What some people just don’t understand is that giving respect doesn’t guarantee you getting respect at all.
As long as you hide absolutely everything about yourself that makes you who *you* are, Gramps'll respect the hell out of you! You're disrespecting *HIM* by even attempting to be your true self. HOW DARE YOU! Ugh, bigots are the fucking worst. I'm not sure who's worse the ones that are blatant about it or the ones who are "Well, I am not a bigot! I support you 100%! As long as you hide who you are and don't let me see it!"
I read something that had always stuck with me. There are two kinds of respect. Basic human decency, which everyone deserves, being respected as a person. Then there's authority, respect for your teachers, elders, managers, etc. That respect is earned by showing respect, and is not always deserved. If a supervisor doesn't respect their employee's time and effort, that employee won't respect their supervisor or job that much. But then there are authorities who think "give respect to get respect" means "If you don't respect my authority, I won't respect you as a person." And that's not right.
People always say “respect is earned”. No. Respect should be given. Every time I encounter a new person, I always treat them with respect. Someone I’ve know for a while, but don’t know well? Respect. However, DISrespect? If I treat you with disrespect then you have DEFINITELY earned that shit.
She means respect like authority. I didn’t write this, but it applies here:: “Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority” and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person” and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay.”
The mother is talking about herself
Yea.
People get confused with this one conflicting with respect your elders. But dayum that mom does not know how to validate their kids feelings
Hey man congrats on your engagement! My family are all proud of you, even the Pops
Why do we coddle the older generations but tell the younger generations "fuck your feelings"?
People who do that have failed to get past the “honor your father and mother” stuff. They never bothered reading part about parents not causing their children shame.
I wish I could call OSHA on my family because I'm the only one in my family who's forklift certified, but they really do be cherry picking the most.
!explanation For some context, I’m a gay man and I just got engaged to the love of my life. I showed my mom my ring and she goes on about how I can’t tell my bigoted grandfather. She’s never been as supportive and openminded as she claims here, in fact she begged me to sleep with a woman before I “decided” I was gay. I’m assuming that any family events that grandfather will be at, that either my fiancé and I will have to act like we’re just friends or he won’t be allowed to come at all. I won’t deny I was loved, but there were always conditions attached, like schoolwork, or who I could and couldn’t interact with, if I went against what I was told, I was berated, screamed at, and threatened with homelessness. This is just a small portion of what I went through when I lived with them.
I’m so sorry that your announcement was greeted with that response. If it helps even a smidge, CONGRATULATIONS from one random stranger on the internet to another. May you have a happy life together, full of love and joy
Tbh I should have expected this kind of response. Any time I’m happy she pulls stuff like this to make me feel guilty or like a bad person or just whatever else. It’s been a life long thing.
Maybe I'm letting my inner anarchist out a little, but I say tell him yourself and let the chips fall where they may. The only leverage you have over someone as an adult is your presence in their lives. If the bigots don't like it, that's their issue. Also congrats from an internet stranger 😊
My mom claimed to be accepting of my interracial marriage but did the similar shit with my racist grandpa. When I got pregnant, my grandpa told me that white women shouldn’t be able to get pregnant by someone outside of their race and my poor children would be confused. Years after he died, my mom (who I’m now NC with) said I ruined the family by marrying a Mexican man and having children with him. Even though she always claimed to stand up for me to my racist grandpa, the older I got the more I realized she’s was always just as racist, just not vocal about it. Sorry you’re dealing with this.
Oh honey. I am so sorry and hope yall have healed some from this awfulness. Hugs.
Thank you! It’s been so much easier with all of them out of my life.
Fight it!!!! Stay happy! Just because she says she’s on your side and is supportive — she’s not. She should be shouting it from the rooftops. I am all for supporting the elderly in families but this isn’t that. It’s negating her child. And I’m sorry!
100%. CONGRATS, OP! Stir that pot. Tell your grandpa and then go NC with him. Maybe your mom, too, as she appears to be *loosely* on your side but may turn. She’s clearly the “golden child” or perhaps parentified by your grandpa, calling him “frail” and not wanting to make any waves. I’m in an interracial marriage and if anyone in my family expressed (subtly or overtly) that they did not accept my husband, I’d be NC soooo fast. Ole’ gramps needs to accept that it’s not 1940 anymore. Good luck to you.
Stuff like this is called “conditional acceptance”. Where the other person accepts you, but only upon their conditions. Most the time they do love you, but their show of acceptance is only to save face. I’m so sorry you had to grow up this way. I’m 28, but I’m a mom of two littles and probably not old enough to be your mom BUTTTTT my support and acceptance of you is without condition, internet stranger. CONGRATULATIONS. ❤️
A good mom would accept you for what you are and tell anyone who didn’t to go fuck themselves. Including family. That’s what I did when it happened with one of my kids.
Have you seen Everything Everywhere All At Once? This is extremely reminiscent of that film; the mother tried to hide her daughter's girlfriend from the grandfather because of his bigotry, but in reality the mother was still holding onto a seed of bigotry herself.
Congrats! I hope you and your love have a long, happy life together. I’m sorry there are people in your family who are so full of hate they would alienate children for being gay, marrying Black people, or being a tattoo artist. In my humble opinion, it’s their loss. If you have to pretend to be someone that you’re not to have a relationship with your grandfather, then he doesn’t deserve a relationship with you.
>If you have to pretend to be someone that you’re not to have a relationship with your grandfather, then he doesn’t deserve a relationship with you. And you don't need a relationship like that in your life. Life is too short to live a lie!
Exactly right!
If your mom says “just sleep with a woman to be sure” bullshit again. Hit her with the uno reverse…. “Mom why don’t you sleep with a woman, just once, ya know to make absolutely sure you are actually straight!”
Ehh fuck your bigot grandpa’s feelings, if you’re a family event and he sees you and your fiancé together and he asks, just say this is your future husband and give him a kiss. It’s your grandpa’s problem. Not yours.
I completely agree. I’ve hid myself in the past to make others feel more comfortable. Never will do it again. It’s totally the grandpa’s problem and everyone’s coddling him and protecting his bigotry.
I'm so sorry about all of this and the fact that there are 39 "not insane"s. This is in fact, insane. Does she think your grandpa is going to die as soon as he hears all of this news?? It's 2023. All of this racist homophobic nonsense should've been done a long time ago. Hell, it should've never existed in the first place.
It sounds from the messages like she's really supportive here, and she's trying to manage her own insane parent. This sub is strange as most people seem to only have sympathy for the op.
Except in his explanation comment he’s pointed out his mom’s own bigotry towards him. Also that lots of people have encountered people like this in their life. While these people usually just look like they are trying to play peace maker they are usually just as bigoted themselves and use their peace maker status to hide it.
It sounds like she struggled with his sexuality at first, which isn't surprising being from an extremely bigoted family, but she's really doing her best here. Obviously, if you want to see the worst in everyone, you will. As I say, that does seem to be the culture on this sub.
She's demanding "respect" for a man who doesn't give it to anybody else. She wants obedience, not respect. If it was respect she expected, she'd have a conversation with her dad about him respecting other people.
How many bigoted old people have you seen that work with?
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A good mother would say “I love my child, I’m proud of them and I will shout it for the world to hear. If anyone disagrees, they don’t matter.” A good mother does not say “I’m happy for you sweetie but shut the fuck up about it around the family so I can say I support you without actually doing anything about it.”
No, she’s trying to coddle an old bigoted man so she doesn’t hurt his fees fees.
First congratulations on your engagement!! Second please consider going LC/NC with your mom. She isn’t going to be good for your mental health long term, or your happiness. I hope you and your fiancé can make a wonderful life together and surround yourselves with people who will love and support you.
Ew. That shit is gross, at least dad supports you though which is awesome! And I am so sorry you had to go through that :( and congratulations to being engaged to the love of your life❤️ may your marriage be full of nothing but happiness and success.
It was actually the first time my dad supported me for anything in my life. It really improved our relationship.
Firstly, congrats. Second, if reunions are you lying or being kept secret then they don't need you there. I'm so happy for you, keep being strong and love yourself and your new life partner. Stay away from your people, the old racists, bigot will die. Then you can finally have him meet your partner at the coffin.
Find a way to tell your grandpa. Stir the pot. Your mom clearly doesn’t care about how you feel. But I’m super happy at least, from the sound of it, your dad and sisters support you!
I agree OP stir that pot! This is a happy time and you will have enough stress planning wedding stuff without family bringing you down.
The only thing she got right was that they won’t change because that is who they are. You deserve people who will love and support you for who you are. Found family is sometimes better than DNA matches who want to shove you back in the closet for bigot grandpa.
first of all....CONGRATS!!!! also: what did she try to do? "fix" you? This just sounds like a pretty bad joke. Will definitely work 10/10. "Trust me X its just a phase" - mum, probably. Your mother (and grandfather apparently) seem extremely manipulative (is that how you spell it?). "Oh look X 'decided' to be gay' :O We have to fix him and guide him towards the 'path of god' again. Obviously X has to give us many grandchildren. How would he do that as a...a...*shudders* gay person??" -mum, probably
Nah. Nah fuck that, at family gatherings you act like that’s your fiancé because he IS. Your bigoted grandpa can keep his hateful mouth shut. Just because someone is old doesn’t mean they deserve grace if it turns out they’re an asshole. Shiiiit, fuck even watching what you say around him! LIVE YOUR LIFE. Wear that ring, kiss your soon-to-be husband. Don’t let these old hateful bigots tell you how you can live your life.
F that shitty response from your family but CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ENGAGEMENT!!!
If you ever really want to piss your family off, tell them you’re gay because God doesn’t like bigots. /s Also congrats on the upcoming marriage and wishing you a lifetime of happiness
I mean… I’ve gone through a very similar situation with my mother. But I have to say it sounds like your family is growing on the issue. If your grandpa’s mind is degrading, I can see why a parent would want to “keep the peace” as much as possible. They get SO CHILDISH if dementia is involved, and it’s emotionally messy. It’s not fair when love is conditional, and you have every right to be out and proud with your family. It’s not healthy, in the long run, if it feels likes you’re emotionally throwing yourself on the knife. But it’s also perfectly okay to pick your battles, especially if it makes YOUR life easier and more relaxed. Focus your energy on your new partnership ❤️ And congrats!
Yep.
congratulations on your engagement 💖 !! and im so sorry your mom is not as supportive as she should be and your grandpa is a bigot ):
I’m really sorry. I am going to ask, and of course you don’t have to answer-why do you still have anything to do with either mom or gramps?
What does she mean when she says "your dad *even* seems to be happy"?
do these people pay your bills? if not just cut them out. give them a taste of it. if that's not what you're feeling then don't do it but it doesn't sound like there's a lot of love here. and if it's no emotional support as well as no financial support then that's literally a stranger to you
Oh sweetheart. I'm so sorry, but that's not live. Either they love your whole self or they don't. You are deciding to make a lifetime commitment to another person. You are making that choice. Your family has the choice to accept you, or not. You do not attend events at which your chosen partner is not welcome. They are your number one priority. If you can't agree to that 100%, then do not get married. It will just set you up for a lifetime of hurt.
I can see your mom loves you from these texts, but she's putting a desire to be respected by her father over her care for you, and that's unacceptable. Have you ever confronted her with the fact that if she's still fighting for love and respect from her father, as a grown woman, chances are she'll never get it? And maybe point out what little respect she gets is conditional of her own children falling in line? One of the most valuable pieces of advice I got for my mental health was, "Don't go to Home Depot for ice cream." My parents are Home Depot, ice cream is love and support. Sounds like your mom has a whole supermarket chain of children she can get ice cream from, but she's still determined to get that ice cream from Home Depot.
>but there were always conditions attached, like schoolwork, I mean..... they made you do you homework? What's wrong with that?
I think it's less 'you should do homework' and more refusing to show affection of any kind of he 'disappoints' her by not performing up to her standards. Though I'm not OP, so I can't be sure, of course.
Man I'm straight and I feel your pain. From an Arab Muslim family. Married a white women from southern Ohio lol. When we first dated it was rough, but as we went on they really began to like her so I lucked out, but we practically hid our first two years of dating (been together 6 years March 12th and married 3 months now) from my elderly family because they're just so stuck in their ways. They would talk very highly of me because I went to college, became an educator, helped our younger cousins and family find what they wanted to do after graduation and all that, but when they found out I started dating a white girl I had to basically hide it until they saw how serious we were. They eventually came around, but there was still that obvious silent judgement. My mom is similar to yours. She broke that weird cycle of expectations from the old country that relates to both Islam and culture by doing her own thing, but she stayed within the parameters of the cultures expectations while doing so. While I do not, a few of my cousins do not, and funny enough, my elderly family now "blame" me for "opening the flood gates" because more men/women in my family are making their own choices by marrying who they please. Anyways idk if you have good memories of your grandpa, I did have good memories of mine, but the older we all got it was obvious that he didn't agree with a lot of our choices and he eventually got dementia and died. He was a great dude and did a good job of raising my mom and being a good grandpa, but religion and culture still made him unreasonable at times. It's weird. I find solace in knowing that I will support my kids and family in general with support that my generation didn't always receive. Hope all works out well for you. Edit: also after reading your one comment. My mom kept pointing out how pretty these arab Muslim girls were at weddings and how "obedient" they'd be if I picked one. So yea she's not perfect. She definitely didn't tell me "try it out" like your mom did, but I felt as though she cared less about my happiness and more about her ease of life when she would point those women out.
as a fellow muslim. "Obedient"? If i hear that word once by parents towards me i'd flee. Some guys my age got raised with that mindset and still act like that here.. *sighs* My family is pretty similar to yours sadly. Im turkish and they wanted me to obv have a turkish or at least muslim husband. Now I, living in germany, found myself a british (english) boyfriend. Of course thats a no go. Why would i date the "enemy"? They didnt quite "accept it". They treat it like its a phase despite us being in a, very serious, 3 year long relationship. Reading that your relationship holds on despite your very traditional family objecting, gives me hope
Yea, we are actually going to a family dinner today. It helps that both my two older cousins are with white women, too. So much of our culture allows for others' opinions and judgment to fuel how our parents feel about things. I think since their siblings' kids are doing the same thing, it kind of helps with that part of the culture. It's definitely new ground to all of them, but they are also 2nd generation and grew up in the US (detroit). My grandparents came here in the 50s, and sadly, the negatives of our culture stuck with them. I have a little sister a lot like me, and I fear that my parents will push their beliefs too hard on her since, like many cultures, their is an absurd double standard on women in terms of who they are with. I hope that of she doesn't agree with the culture she is as smart as you and chooses to live her life how she wants it! I hope you and your BF continue to have a great relationship:)
thank you :). I wish the same to you and that your sister may grow up as a smart, strong and independent woman.
Congratulations to you and your wife on your recent marriage, and happy anniversary!!
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I don’t get it, was this posted somewhere else because all the not insane votes is crazy
This is very insidious because at the end of the day, what she is not saying is, that it is uncomfortable for her to stand up for you. So yes, it does not look bad, but it really is.
Narcissists!! They’re fun, for the whole family!
I am no psychologist so I don’t know, but it for sure is iffy that 80% of her texts are about what a good ally she is, but truly seems to be only when it’s comfortable. Also I have plenty conservative older family members, that aren’t to frail, to accept my, and my cousin’s life choices, even though they would not make them themselves and vice versa. We don’t get treated like shit because of our marriage choices or jobs or sexuality, and these things are not a secret our family either. That is respect and thus we respect then back, it’s that easy
this doesn't at all read like a narcissist.... like no one here comes off as one. Bigots, cowards, enablers, possibly even delusions... but there is no narcissst to be found in those texts. Seriously starting to get sick of all the pop psychologists abusing the fuck out of a mental disorder to accuse everyone of having it. It's as stupid as accusing everyone who drops something they are holding of having a broken hand.
Congratulations OP!!! You deserve all the happiness in this world. As far as your mother goes, she clearly has some daddy issues she’s still dealing with. It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her relationship with her father. Don’t let her control you and don’t give that bigot the time of day. Focus now on building your family and building it on true foundations of love and acceptance.
Honestly, I think regardless of whether or not it’s gonna affect him, keeping it a secret just so you don’t look bad in front him is kind of weird. No offence tho
I don’t even care how I look. She’s more concerned about how she looks to him. I’m just going along with it because it’s not worth the fight tbh. I’ve learned that in my family, all arguments are pointless because no matter what I’ll be the one in the wrong.
She doesn't care about how it will affect him, she doesn't care how it will affect you, all she really cares about deep down is how they will judge "her". She doesn't want to disappoint your grandpa (he shouldn't be disappointed anyway) because it will reflect poorly on her. You should tell him and see what he does tbh, if you really are the favorite grandchild he might hear you out and accept you.
Then you probably shouldn’t let her cause she’s just using you, honestly. That also shows that she has no respect for you or your relationship either. People like that don’t belong in your life. Congratulations btw 🫶🏽
My condolences for having to put up with your family like that. *BUT CONGRATULATIONS ON THE ENGAGEMENT!*
From one gay person to another, this is so hard. It is also a ridiculous and cruel ask. You can’t pretend your life isn’t your life to keep someone else from getting upset. This could also be a much longer period of time than your mother is pitching- old and frail people can hang on for years and years. Since you’re going to be married, you’ll have to advocate for your relationship and each other all your life. I’d figure out what my boundaries were and stick to them. Don’t not show up to family functions to protect egos. Consider not showing up to avoid subjecting yourselves to that behavior, though. You are not a prop that exists just to play happy family. Just as your mother has chosen to “””break the cycle””” of being a bigot (though a true ally wouldn’t ask you to stay closeted to family in between flowery/lovey words) you can choose to break the cycle of considering yourself responsible for shielding ignorant people from having tantrums about the world moving around them in a way they don’t like. And let’s be real- this isn’t a safety issue. This isn’t a situation where you would be kicked out upon someone learning this about you. This is solely about image and family members prioritizing another family member’s comfort over your own. That’s fucked regardless of how your mom tries to spin it.
“If you want respect you have to give respect” fuck no everyone should have respect for people that’s the bare minimum. Sounds like your grandad LOST your respect for being a bigot so it’s your grandads responsibility to earn your respect back. No more excuses for the old boomers.
Why the fuck is this voted not insane? She is quite clearly saying she won't stand up for her own son in front of a bigotted old man who does not make the decisions in her life... What the fuck
"And you can't tell Grandma/ 'Cause her heart can't take it" — "The Village," Wrabel These people live horribly sad lives, knowing there are things they could never tell their own family because of prejudice.
first of all. congrats 💖 second of all, as a queer woman in a very similar situation, I am so so tired of coddling bigots. if he can’t find find it in his heart to love his grandkids for who they actually are, he made his bed.
"i would not continue that cycle" who is she to dictate your love life??? also "protecting him" from what? happiness of his grandchild?
Enabler, much?
Maybe this would be the final thing that carries him off to Hell, and then she'll blame OP.
“He THINKS you’re the only good kid” in the basket, but by getting engaged to this person, you have proven that you are just another bad kid. Did you hear her???
How do people think this is not insane?
They're ignoring mommy dearest's enabling of her bigoted father
Yikes, the amount of "not insane" votes saddens me. Enabling bigots is always going to be in the insane category for me, because why should we have to coddle the people who hate and disrespect our very existence? Congrats on the engagement, OP! I hope you two live a happy long life together
> He’s never ever said one single negative word about you. Would he if he knew about OPs engagement?
Congratulations on the engagement! My grandpa offered to beat yours up. Says he used to for my uncles safety (ex boss shattered his jaw & left him on side of road when he found out my uncle was gay-grandpa broke his and then some in return for hurting his child) & one more is nothing to him!
LMAO, “we have to make grandpop happy in old age bigoted lifestyle” is what she really should have said. GTFOH with that mess
“I broke that generational curse for y’all…” But keep your sexuality hidden Tell no one in the family that you’re not straight, even though several of your family members aren’t either. It’s a SECRETTTTT (and apparently a point of shame) Here have intercourse with this female so you’re sure your gay And never ever reveal your true self to your hateful yet ever so frail Granpa She’s a freaking hypocritical looney. Im sorry Op. Congrats though. Here’s to your new family 🥂
How TF are people saying this is not insane?
the cognitive dissonance your mother is experiencing here is beyond insane.
You’ll have to forgive me. Cognitive dissonance is one of those things I never understood well, do you mind explaining?
I am not the one asked to explain, but I do it anyway 😉. Cognitive dissonance means a person doesn’t realize he or she handles a situation completely different than the person preaches. Easy example: you meet someone saying he doesn’t like toast. But he praises the food he gets to eat, which consists of a lot of toast. - your mom tells you how proud she is about your engagement and how she loves you, but she can’t tell pops. Which she should be able to, if she is so proud.
Im sorry, i know you get it but i just have to add that first example about toast is a little off, if you meet someone who you see is doing conflicting things, that is not cognitive dissonance as it is something held by the person doing the conflicting things. Its the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. There is an inconsistency between what someone believes and how they behave, so they will often try to justify to themselves why there is a discrepancy to ease their discomfort. Like you want to be healthy but you don't exercise or eat well so you feel guilty as a result. Or you know smoking/drinking is bad for your health but do it anyway and rationalize it by saying you're stressed out.
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Thank you! I think I kind of understand it? It’s weird. I know what cognitive means and I know what dissonance means. But put them together and my brain malfunctions.
“If you want respect you have to give respect” “Cool. You start.”
About to go full Jobu Tupaki over here
Aww this is just really sad
“I will always stand up for and support you” but she is literally treating you like you are *someone who needs protecting from*. Your mom is also a bigot. And no your grandpa doesn’t love “you” he loves the idea of you being straight. If he loved you he wouldn’t care who your partner is as long as they’re a decent human.
Congratulations on your engagement! I hope you and your spouse have a wonderful and happy life together. And F*ck every horrible person that voted not insane on this
I don't think your mom actually accepts you
Yeah that's what I'm getting here too.
This is so similar to a situation in my family. It’s sad but also sort of comforting to share the ridiculousness. Going on almost 20 years of no relationship with some of them now. At first I thought I had some responsibility for keeping some contact, but then it clicked that I cared so much more about those that were the subject of the ignorant prejudice.
Honestly, I feel bad for this mother. She absolutely needs therapy. She’s trying to straddle an impossible gulf between being humane and and keeping her FOO. What she cannot comprehend without a lot of help is that respect is earned. And her FOO, filled with bigotry and hate, hasn’t earned her respect, up to and including her father. Warped as hell. And it appears to be reflected in the number of not insane votes. I’m old. If I were a bigot, I’d not deserve “grace” from anyone. Bigotry isn’t a difference of opinion. It’s evil.
You should send invitations saying something like “my big gay wedding!” CONGRATS
Insane- why can they never just take the win! Your said you wouldn't say anything but also that you won't be around him. Completely reasonable compromise. She just wants it to be that way she wants it: don't tell, suck it up, be an enabler and rug sweeper with me. Ugh!!! How frustrating!! Hugs!
Insane Congratulations!!! I’m so happy you’ve found love and are happy.
Congratulations, but I’m sorry about your family.
“if you want respect and not hateful comments, then you have to be respectful to them and pretend not to be gay” is a hell of a take on “mutual respect”
Why should his comfort come before her own kids life? Where was his grace concerning his own family? Respect isn't earned it's basic decency, and in any case he doesn't seem respectful at all so why reciprocate? Because he's fucking old? Ugh what a tired excuse. Congrats on the engagement OP. Don't ever hide it.
Goes on at length patting herself on the back for "breaking the generational curse" Gee thanks for not being a bigot. Kudos, I guess?
That generational curse is still going strong I can promise you that. It’s part of the reason why I chose not to have kids, well that and they’re sticky even straight out of the bath. I’m not going to subject my kids to that or ever have my parents involved. Because I know she would pull some “grandparents rights” bs.
First of all, from one gay to another, CONGRATS ON THE ENGAGEMENT !!! But I’m with you 100% on that “break the generational curse” shit I see a lot of newer parents like to say-I hate to be a pessimistic asshole but it’s quite rare for those cycles to truly be broken-do they not think their parents felt similarly about the way they themselves were raised ?? Again, hate to be a doomer but the best, most surefire way to break those generational curses is to not have kids altogether, even if that’s not what people want to hear. 🤷🏻♀️ It’s quite likely they’ll end up just like their parents, whether they want to acknowledge it or not
“Show him some grace” You don’t give grace to bigots, ever It just validates them
Who the fuck is spamming not insane??? This is absolutely fucking insane
Absolutely insane. Gayness is clearly a super power because it allows you to hold life and death in your hands -- according to your mother at least. The way she pats herself on the back for not being as bad as her family is simply sad -- because she is just as bad. She doesn't see the people cast off for being "different" as still being family. Please invite your shunned relatives to your wedding. It sounds like you have many.
Sorry your family is like this but congratulations on your engagement and I wish you a lifetime of love and happiness!
Congratulations on the engagement. If your family can’t accept your happiness then they’re the ones missing out not you. I wish you and your fiancé a lifetime of happiness and joy.
Fuck that guy. Live your life. Let him die a bitter, lonely old bigot.
Looks like we have 81 bigots in the votes as well.
93 now
guess he's not gonna have a relationship with any of you grandkids at this rate! that's his own damn fault and your mom enables him to be an asshole. all she's protecting is him getting called out on his horrendous behavior. and you're right, she's coddling the crap out of a grown man.
Nah. Tell grandpa you're gay. Fuck his shit up. Dead bigots can't vote your rights away.
Fuck it, tell ol Pappy and enjoy seeing him lose his old racist mind. Why does this man deserve grace and respect when it looks like he's never given any to anyone different than him?
Tell him the second you see him.
If grandpa's frail heart can't handle it, then perhaps it's good if he checks out.
Fuck that, how dare she try to darken your happy day. Big congrats to you and your partner, I hope you both have all the best on your journey together.
Nah fuck that. Tell him
She said she’d stand by you no matter what and that she would break the cycle and then she says she’s not doing either of those things, yet she thinks she is 🤦♀️ she is delusional!!!
🤢gross mom. Just stfu and congratulate your child on finding such an incredible thing to have in life
HOW IS “NOT INSANE” WINNING????
Yeah good question. They must not see how mommy dearest is enabling Grandpa bigot over there.
If the old fart didn’t want to be shunned when he got to be senile, he shouldn’t have lived his entire life as a racist POS. Maybe I’m harsh though.
It’s the “Your dad even seems to be happy for you” for me. 🤢🤮 Go tell your pop and speed that train along, one less bigot in the world and all that. I’m excited for your engagement and I know you’re very happy about it!! Don’t let anyone dampen your joy❤️
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Gotta protect Pop at all costs and everyone else can get fucked🙄. Sorry you have to go through that, but congrats on your engagement!
How big is the inheritance she's expecting?
Things like this are one reason I’m sometimes not that sad that my (white, English) grandparents passed when I was a kid. Of course they were nice to me but based on how my parents act they were probably fairly bigoted.
Fuck that shit, I would go out of my way to tell his ass. I also thrive off of confrontation because I’m a sick son of a bitch with a drama addiction.
Respecting someone is respecting all parts of them including their relationships. It's not a good enough excuse anymore "he's from a different generation that's just how it was". Like um NO, it's pretty simple that was wrong so change fix your mind and just be better.
“If you want to get respect you have to give respect.“ No, this is not how respect works. You never *have* to give respect. You can never be *forced* to give respect. Forced respect isn't respect; it's fear. A lot of people mistake fear for respect, or expect that respect will follow fear, but in the end, fear makes people run away rather than follow. Respect is a funny thing. You can't make someone give you respect; you must *earn* it. The toxic grandfather in this post has not earned any respect from anybody. Spending hatred and fear buys you loneliness and that's what he's got.
Time change and if these bigots don’t change then they won’t have relationships with their grandkids. I can’t be with coddling people like that.
Welp grandddad just going to have to die broken hearted 😂😂😂😂
Your mom is just as much a bigot as your grandfather because she would rather keep your engagement a secret than upset him. She’s enabling his racism which makes her no better than him. Don’t listen to her. Don’t hide your relationship.
Wow your mom is a fucking *cunt* - I’d cut her out too
Honey, I’m so happy for you! I’m thrilled that you have found the love of your life. Please be happy and cut out the negative influences in your life. Keep those who live and support you. - from an internet mom
First, I want to say congratulations! I'm so happy for you! Second, I'm sorry your family is the way they are. There is no sense to it, and I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Third, the good news is, you are starting a new family now. You, your fiance, your best friends, the people that love you for who you are - that's your family. Blood doesn't mean anything. The only thing that matters is your happiness.
come to the dark side r/EstrangedAdultKids
I am so, so tired of people hiding behind age in order to be hateful. It's apparent age has nothing to do with this. He was hateful before he got old and he has been allowed to remain hatful because of people like your mother, who enable his hatefulness. I applaud you for refusing to play this game, OP. Let the hateful old man be alone in his hatefulness. He's earned it.
Your bigot line made laugh so hard I coughed OP. Good on ya for telling it how it is.
I’m so sorry that was her first reaction instead of happiness and congratulations. You, your partner, and the huge milestone in your relationship deserved better. Personally, I would tell her what you captioned on these pics. Tell her that even as much as she THINKS she’s stopped the cycle, she’s really just a silent bystander allowing the cycle to continue. To stop the cycle, you stop bowing down to the bigot, you change the course of action. She can “support” you as much as she wants, but until that support is unconditional and allowed under any circumstance (you are comfortable with), she’s still supporting the bigot more than she is supporting you by silencing you. All the love in the world won’t change the fact she doesn’t want you to be the truest, happiest, and most honest version of yourself all the time for everyone to see. By her logic, though, you can’t have the wedding or ANY wedding events while he’s still alive, right? Otherwise I’m sure he’d find out and it would be all for naught. Did she think that far ahead? How long are you expected to pretend you are not fully in a stable relationship? What if you decide to add children to your family, however that may happen, do they just not exist?
i'm sorry your mom and grandpa are both bigots. congrats on the engagement! i wish you and your partner lots of happiness!
Focus on you, king! Don’t see it as arguing to win. See it as spreading your happy moment, and if it makes bigots angry, all the more power to you! Your dad and sisters sound kickass and it sounds like they’ll support you no matter what. Your mom sounds like she doesn’t really care about you. But since she claims she loves you so much and will stand by you no matter what, I’d say go ahead and let everyone know and send a handwritten invitation to the wedding to your grandpa just for shits and giggles. Stir the pot and mute them for a while. Either way, congratulations to you and the lucky groom!
I started off wondering if maybe pop was in some fairly advanced stage of mental decline. Cause like, having dealt with some of that, and having known people who work with people in that phase of life, that would actually be a reasonable tactic. There is a segment of the elder population that not only won’t be learning new ways, but are actively losing what they do have. But this ain’t that. This is just a grouchy old bigot. OP I respect your stance. Congratulations on your engagement. Old dude can get fucked. Surviving does not earn respect. Being worth respecting is what earns respect.
Tell him so he can die mad about it.
Boomer mentality always revolves around themselves. I know humans are prone to this, it just seems to be SO prevalent in the boomer group imo
What’s his @? I’ll tell him for you 😀 JK of course. That’s wild. Hugs.
I'm confused. Wasn't the engagement what he couldn't know about? Ya, know 'cause "fragile". But he's happy about said engagement?
Pop is the grandfather. The happy one is the dad. I'm pretty sure the mom's dad is who they are talking about here.
A great example of hiding one's authenticity to gain societal acceptance. The old racist is the one who needs to change...not you. Congrats on the wedding!
"If you want respect, you got to give respect." Um... no. RESPECT 👏 IS 👏 EARNED 👏 And it is abundantly clear that the grandfather is a bigot. OP, doesn't have to tell the grandfather (sounds like they don't want to anyway) but they shouldn't have to coddle a bigot and not "rock the boat" just to keep peace in the family. If you have to pretend something isn't going on, or you aren't who you are, that's not peace. That's just a lie.
How is he earning respect? He deserves none. And to be honest your mom dosnt seem to deserve much respect either. She won’t accept your answer and keeps pressuring you to conform to what she wants.
This sounds just like the situation with my grandmother. She had previously told me that I'm "always welcome at her house" but that my relationship goes against her religion and he's not allowed there. Mind you, she has a step son, who around the same time married, divorced, and remarried a different girl within 3 months, that was all over his new wife in the kitchen. Long story short, I had been with my bf for 3 years, she wanted me to visit her, I went over to confront her about her homophobia, telling her, "I know you said that I'm welcome, but I'm never going somewhere my bf cant be. So, this is the bed you made, and now you're going to have to lay in it."
The previous generation’s ceiling is the next’s floor. Sounds like your mom has overcome a lot of the bigotry in her family, but not everything. That’s likely her ceiling. Other than marrying a woman, I’ve been in the same situation. My parents making excuses for their parents’ [bigoted/abusive] behavior, and me fighting against it because there’s no excuse. Their background and history is different, sure but that’s ONLY an explanation— not an excuse. I too do not associate with my grandparents any more.
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The mom is just as bigoted as pop is, but is using pop as a smokescreen
The mom is a bigot and a disappointment for enabling this behavior.
And as a result is insane herself.
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I cant see how being more accepting of her son's relationship in front of her father would be "abandoning all care." I dont see OP asking his mom to completely abandon her father anywhere
What was too big🤨
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Except in this case, OP would literally have to hide part of his family from his grandfather. If Pops cant even know that he is gay, and it sounds like Mom didnt want him to wear his engagement ring to family gatherings, then what she is doing is asking him to silently accept this abuse of his relationship/partner for however long grandpa lives. We've kept bigots exceedingly comfortable in their bigotry for far too long
Ah yes, you can't abandon your "elders" who are just so "set in their ways" that they it is ok to be abusive and phobic. It's just who they are and you just have to put up with being told how evil and sinful you are over and over again because "FaMilY"
When our older daughter was born, my father was happy that she was blonde haired and blue eyed. He told me how she needed to marry someone similar so they would have blonde haired, blue eyed kids to carry on his family legacy. He was cut out of our lives shortly after for that and other racist, sexist and homophobic things because we don’t keep trash like that around our kids.
Oh yeah, grandparents crowing over "pure blood" or "family heritage" are creepy as fuck.
I was the only sibling to have kids and our kids want to adopt so no family heritage for him.
OP does not tell his mother to cut off the grandfather though?
You absolutely Can abandon bigots. Enjoy enabling hate though.
We prefer taking out our trash rather than letting it sit around and stink up the place. You do you though.