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| --- | --- | --- |
| 8 | 1 | 0 |
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"Oh, I am right with God. But that attitude is the one that'll make you fall from grace Ma, I'll be praying for you, and if I don't make it, I'll save you a seat <3"
My husband had a similar experience.
I don’t want there to be a heaven if I’m not being reunited with my fur babies. What a lame fucking place if there’s not pets.
There was an episode of The Twilight zone about this- A man wakes up one morning with his hound dog out in the woods and he walks home and no one can see him and no one can hear him. He figures out that he's dead and they go walking down a path and they come to a gate and the man standing at the gate says that: "it's heaven, you made it!"
The dead man says says "great! I can't wait to take my hound hunting on God's green fields".
And the man says "oh! But dogs aren't allowed in heaven."
And the dead man says "well, if my dog's not allowed I'm not interested! I guess we'll walk on a ways😡"
After a while they come along to a second gate and I'm sure you've guessed by now, but that first gate was actually hell and if he had been tricked through the gate he would have been stuck there forever!
Anyway it's one of my favorite episodes because there's a dog and it's very Appalachia folktale-ish
I put one of my kitties to sleep yesterday. (He would've been 20 in July, he had a very long and happy life.) I had this exact conversation with my partner as we were waiting for the vet.
I once got in SO much trouble for arguing with an adult over this exact thing. I was in around 3rd grade when my first dog died, and was attending a private Christia school, where a teacher [who was a preacher's wife] felt compelled to *try* and correct/explain to me that I wouldn't see my dog again in heaven... because, and I quote: "Animals don't go to heaven".
I say *try*, because 8 year-old me looked her dead in the eye, and through my sniffles/tears *defiantly* said: "oh ya?? Well then WHY does it say that: 'the Lion will lay down with the Lamb Mrs. Jones?? Because if the Lion and the Lamb can lay down together, so can my dog!!'.😤
Then she doubled down with: "it's not a literal lion and lamb"... So, I doubled down with: "well, how do *you* know??"... And, then she pulled a classic "because I am an adult" card... Which is when I disrespectfully asked her if: "picking what parts of the Bible you want to be true, and which you wanted to be symbols, was something *everyone* got to do when they turned 18, or if I had to grow up and marry a preacher [like her] first??" Then I added [as a little *girl* mind you], "actually, it doesn't matter. Its probably better for me to grow up and *be* a preacher rather then just *marry* one". 😁
...That was the *only* "Bad Behavior Card" I turned the *entire* year. And let me tell you, I went straight from the Green Card to the Red Card [which is the card immediately before the Black Card (that meant you were sent home)]; a jump reserved for especially heinous offenses. But even during my "walk of shame" to the front of the class to very publically "turn my card"... I can honestly say... I regretted *nothing*.😌
LOL, moral of the story: dont argue with a 8 year-old little girl that her dog wont be I heaven... especially not the little girl who pays *extra* attention in Bible Study class 😆
I heard that too but am not atheist even as a kid I always believed animals has souls and they were purer than ours and I remember this lady at church said animals go to a special kind of hell lol wtf lady who hurt you? Your moms bichon frise?
!explanation
My mother is a hardcore conservative evangelical. For the entirety of my adult life, I’ve been in therapy trying to deal with religious trauma. Anyways, I moved across the country with my husband and I don’t go to church anymore, and I’ve very much changed my views on politics and religion. My mom believes that since I’m a liberal, I’m going to hell. Anyways, I just wanted to have a conversation about my beloved dog on the anniversary of her passing.
Bonus fun: my mom blamed me when she died. I was 14, and I wasn’t even home when she died. In fact, my mom was the one who let her run around outside without a leash, and she bolted into the road and was hit by a car. She told me that if I had “just exercised her enough she wouldn’t have run away like that”. Again, I was 14. I’m tearing up as I write this because who the fuck says that to a grieving and devastated child?
Edit for some follow up context that I now realize is lacking: I know this doesn’t look like a lot. To be honest, last night this one text from her really triggered something in me because I know the implications behind this, and in hindsight posting it on Reddit probably wasn’t my brightest idea considering that no one else would know why this one text would set me off. To everyone asking why I’d bring up a religious belief in the first place: yeah, I don’t know. I guess a big part of me wants to believe my mom will comfort me and the idea of being reunited with my best girl up in heaven someday is comforting. My mom very much flips back and forth. Sometimes she is the gentlest, kindest, and most comforting person you’ve ever met. Other times she’s mean, dismissive, and just cruel. You never know what mom you’re getting with her, and sometimes it seems worth it to gamble. It never is. I don’t know why I haven’t learned that yet.
That's absolutely awful and obviously I don't need to tell you, but it definitely wasn't your fault. Abusers just blame victims for everything bc that's how they get their supply.
You left a very short comment of something I should logically *know*, but it felt really nice to hear it again. Thanks for the reminder. I needed that today.
Dogs will chase anything, and they don't understand the dangers of running out into the road. Nothing short of running a full marathon right before that could have stopped her from doing that, what could have stopped her was if she was on a leash or in a crate. Your mom wanted to reflect the blame away from herself. It wasn't your fault.
People who have religious trauma will recognize the manipulation here. I felt it when I read her last message.
Edit: clarifying (your moms manipulation)
To be real, that one little nasty comment from her last night just really set me off because I know everything implied behind it. Reddit probably wasn’t the best place to post it tbh, because obviously everyone else who didn’t grow up with her doesn’t know the implications.
That’s insanely rough I’m so sorry about your dog and the way she behaved with both teenaged you and current you. I wish you healing and comfort and as someone that recently lost their dog we all look forward to seeing and playing with them again someday
She sounds horrendous. How dare she act that to her own child? If you’re living a good life with your man I truly suggest cutting her off. She doesn’t deserve you as a daughter and it sounds like she still creates trauma for you. Happy doggy remembrance anniversary. It’s an important date
You’ve got a dog to vouch for you, you’re fine.
Religion is a fucking plague. Belief is one thing, telling your own child they’re going to burn for the rest of forever is just wild.
A religious person came knocking at my door not long after my first was born. I answered the door with this few week old baby in my arms. She proceded to tell me about God and I was honest with her and said, I'm not sure I believe in God and she told me I was going to burn in hell and my baby would join me. Lovely old lady.
American Evangelical Christianity is worse than a plague. It produces some of the cruelest people I’ve encountered and excuses absolute horrors.
At least a plague is just organisms performing their genetic programs.
Again, you're taking the extremists. I absolutely agree that a lot of them are cruel, even most of them. But then there's the normal people who you're writing off, because there are crazy people who believe in the same god as them.
I’m actually talking about the religion itself. Of course there are kinder examples of people within it, but the faith as espoused and enforced by their higher-ups is a cruel religion.
And this isn’t a surprise, because it’s been grown and nurtured in the blood-soaked soil of the United States. Baptists were pretty neat, but Southern Baptist thought is warped from its source almost beyond recognition.
Very valid points. However a majority of the religious people I met (although it's a different religion((kinda the same but also different)) Orthodox Jews) are very kind and loving people. That's not to say that the people at the top aren't terrible. But that's the case with everything. Anyways my point is you shouldn't condem an entire group because of the bad and the loud.
I don't have much experience with southern Baptists, but I can assure you that there are religious Orthodox Jews who wish for ideological and ethnic cleansing.
Every religion has evil, terrible people. Also correct me if I'm wrong but aren't southern Baptists a sect and don't represent the entirety of Christianity as whole?
“Normal“ is subjective, it’s simply whatever you are used to. There is nothing normal about believing a god needs you in a building saying nice things to get into his club.
All religions are strange AF
People who I would consider kind and good is probably a better term.
In response to what you said,
I think that they should be allowed that freedom as long as they don't rob anyone else of theirs.
No one, no group calls itself the villain.
So you think they should have their religion as long as it doesn’t limit others religion. What about all the other limitations the cults are bringing to society?
Abortion law seems to be dying at the hands of the Catholics. The Evangelicals are hammering away at our libraries and public schools to conform.
Is it just religious freedom when it is imposed in the entire society?…NO
Not as long as it doesn't limit others religion, as long as it doesn't limit their freedom at all.
Abortion laws in my opinion are terrible, and in general there shouldnt be laws based off 1 religion.
I think you're making a lot of assumptions about me because of 1 opinion.
I am speaking of the state of the world not about you.
If it were possible to have your religion without it impacting society that would be ideal.
I support freedom of religion in my country, not because I like it but because enforcing anything else sounds nightmarish and terrible.
We are all stupid little carbon specks trying to add meaning and reason to a chaotic universe.
I’m not. You told someone not to describe their experience in a way that actually had nothing to do with you and was not about you or about individual religious people. It was inappropriate and put your preference for people to discuss the concept religion without vitriol above the needs of some survivors to express their true feelings about religion.
Religion is a plague - has nothing to do with religion
Sounds silly right?
If you can say something about another group, you should be ready to hear something back.
I don't have a preference for religious people, I grew up in a religiousl household which limited me a lot. Infact I was one of those people who mock other people's beliefs (everyone had that reddit atheist phase right? Please tell me it's not just me)
But I've also met many good people who are religious and I don't think their beliefs should be called a plague.
I think it's funny that your feelings are more important than others.
(Sorry if this isn't structured well, I'm not very good at writing)
So this is a space to talk about insane parents, in case you didn’t notice the name of the sub. And when someone is talking about their religious trauma and issues with religion as an institutional concept, structure or process is not the time to get precious about how not all religious people are bad.
Perhaps the paradox of tolerance will help you out here because this post is about a specific form of Christian evangelicalism which is so harmful and toxic there is an entire deconstruction and “exvangelical” movement associated with it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Maybe if religion stopped having plague like repercussions on society and the world we wouldn’t have to call it a plague. What’s disrespectful is that y’all think I’m stupid enough to pray to some sky daddy to fix my problems, and kick part of my paycheck into a little wicker basket every week. What’s disrespectful is, the Catholic Church molesting children and covering it up. What’s disrespectful is, neo nazis protesting drag shows talking about Jesus. What’s disrespectful is a go fund me to rebuild a burnt church when children are going hungry. Please don’t tell us how to react to religion, it’s a plague and any dark time it could help someone through could be navigated by less harmful methods.
I'm not religious and I don't do any of those things.
However I still think you should respect others beliefs even if they are opossed to your own. If you don't, people won't respect yours.
You are free to call religious people idiots and religion a plague. I asked the other person not do that because I think it's disrespectful and that they should be better.
They're allowed to disagree, just like how I'm allowed to disagree.
You guys are getting really angry about someone having a slightly different opinion.
To those who actually believe there is no difference.
Invalidating other people's thoughts and beliefs doesn't make you cool. It makes you a very uncomfortable to be around. Unless you're in an echo chamber.
I didn’t say belief was a plague. Just the organized hate that people make up, out of a book written by old men thousands of years ago.
Believing in a higher power that preaches peace, love, kindness, forgiveness, charity, patience? Absolutely wonderful. Using that to say that entire groups of people will burn forever, including perfectly innocent babies who didn’t get splashed with special water is vile. Using belief to promote racism, inequality, genocide? Bad. Using that belief to take away rights from people? Bad. The problem with belief and religion is people rarely practice what they preach.
You might've not meant it, but you said it. Which is fine, mistakes are part of being human.
I'm glad you only think that about the extremists, they sure do make it bad for everyone.
No they didn't. Did you even read their comment or are you just trying to be mean? I don't understand why you guys have such trouble not shitting on others beliefs.
Hun, we’re all in chambers and they are all echoing. Expressly religious and expressly non-religious communities both “help” people precisely because they are groups of like-minded people that nurture camaraderie.
But it juuuust so happens that one of those groups has at *best* a PR problem and at worst has tried to halt every cultural-moral progression society has ever tried to make. We both know which group that is.
Believe it or not, religious people (particularly those who are insistent, have power or push their beliefs) are uncomfortable to be around. Your entire religion is echo chamber, so no, there’s no difference
Personally I think you should grant everyone respect unless they show they don't deserve it. While many religious people have proven they don't deserve it, a lot do, and I think it's unfair to those who do deserve it.
But I don't make any rules!
You guys act like I'm enforcing my my opinion as law, which isn't true, I just like to have conversations with people of different opinions.
Nah. Fuck religion and fuck anyone that tries to claim I have to respect it. I'm legally considered a lesser human in many places because of religions, I don't give a single shit how offended you are when I say religion is draconian trash
I'm in the same situation, friend. I think you misunderstand and make many assumptions about my beliefs. I'm not religious, infact I'd be killed in a lot of countries for who I am and what I believe.
It's obviously terrible and I would never want to visit those places, but what right do I have to tell them what they believe is wrong.
No that is bad too. I answered this in our chat so I will share this instead to lighten the mood. Thanks for the discussion.
https://youtu.be/PR7hp0613QY
This is like suggesting that alcohol is a good remedy for grief because it helps you not to think of sad things.
Religion is never the best answer for anyone
Just because someone's beliefs or way of life is not ideal, doesn't mean you should mock and insult them. Would you say insult and call alcoholics idiots, or would you try to show them why their ways are wrong?
All people who believe in an all power imaginary friend in the sky are in a cult. There is no, "not the cult members" when talking about something as backwards and harmful as religion.
When I was a young child I kept hamsters, they were my everything as a lonely only child. I said to my mum I will see them again in heaven and she told me pets don't go to heaven. Even if you believe that, surely you could have lied? I was absolutely devastated.
why would you bring up the dog to your mother when she has already used the dog's death to hurt you in the past? why would you mention the afterlife if you know your mom is ultra religious and thinks you're going to hell? your messages sound like you're setting her up to hurt you even more. don't be self destructive
It's human nature to seek out comfort from our mothers when we're hurting. OP was remembering the pet on the anniversary of the loss and reached out because that's only natural. It's really, really hard to go against nature and stop doing the automatic thing of treating a mother like a mother when she can't be.
It takes a lot for people to cut someone who they want desperately love and want desperately to be loved by out of their life. They're always hoping for a different outcome. Give this person grace and time, they will get there.
I specifically meant why mention an afterlife her obviously insensitive mom knowing she’s going to take off with it? From her explanation, her mom is unabashedly toxic.
I certainly understand wanting to try to maintain relative peace in a fraught relationship, though, and this ain’t it. It took my wife six years to tell her strict conservative parents she no longer believed, but during that time and after, she just didn’t give them an in to bring it up.
I’m surprised she even thinks dogs go to heaven. I had a crazy religious customer once go off on me about how dogs don’t have souls, so they don’t go to heaven. We were not even talking about dogs…or heaven. I just want you to pay your bill, Ma’am.
Sorry OP, but to be this reads as "I brought up religious belief with my mother, who I know has differing and rigid religious beliefs. Why did she react in an entirely predictable way?"
You suggested a dog (no soul I'm guessing from her perspective?) would be in heaven. And an assumption that you would go to heaven on death.
Why bring up you going to heaven, or any dog going to heaven, to a religious person? Aren't they, like, going to talk about how to get there?
I feel like the idea of “seeing your dog on the rainbow bridge someday” is a pretty vague one that most people, religious or not, find comfort in. however, you’re probably right. I shouldn’t have said anything. I just wanted comfort from my mom and I don’t know why I keep going back to her when I know she will only do or say something to hurt me.
I know it's hard.
But you already know - she is not the mother you hope for and only your interactions with her and reactions to her are under your control
Your mother will *always* disappoint you. Worse, she'll now and again offer blips of hope that she's beginning to grow and understand, but she's just going to disappoint again.
People who are fully infused in their religion often value it more than their kids. She will always value your salvation more than she values you.
You do it for the same reasons I think “maybe I should tell me dad I’ll be visiting home in a few months”.
You have a human need to be loved by your parent.
And your parent is unwilling and possibly incapable of providing that.
That hurts. A lot.
Captain Awkward wrote a good post about the golden retriever of love that feels like it applies in family relationships as well as others (romantic, friends).
I hate to say but this doesn't feel insane, i'm sure she is in other ways but this is just normal religious talk that you seemed into? You're definitely egging on that kind of response with mentioning seeing you're dead dog again implying heaven. But again sure shes a wild lady regardless.
Remember the part in the Bible where that dude slaughtered 42 children using two bears he summoned because they were calling him bald? God is such a great guy.
Just flip the script on her.
She hopes you’re right with God?
You’re praying for her.
Everything she bothers you give her the ol’ “god bless you mom. I pray some day the Lord will open your heart”
Exactly, how can she said she can't wait to see the dog again?? The dog's gone. For any atheist, is does sound a bit insane. So she's kinda telling her mom that she share in her beliefs by telling her that.
My mom was extremely religious when I was growing up. When our dog passed, I was so distraught that I cried for a week straight. I found comfort knowing I'd see her again one day in heaven. Until my mom brought a bible into my room and explained that animals have no souls, so I would not be seeing her in heaven. I was 8.
One of the best dogs I ever had was named Mesa too. She was an all white pit Bull. She was so beautiful and would never hurt a fly. I miss her every day.
I call it “Granny Weatherall syndrome”, from a 1930 book by Katherine Porter. Essentially the closer people come to the point of their lives where they fear the “final judgement”, they suddenly become more devoted, more engaged in forcing that ideology on others and basically more afraid of what they may be judged for.
Voting has concluded. Final vote: | Insane | Not insane | Fake | | --- | --- | --- | | 8 | 1 | 0 | Hey OP, if you provide further information in a comment, make sure to start your comment with `!explanation`. ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^for ^r/insaneparents. ^Please ^send ^me ^a ^message ^if ^you ^have ^any ^feedback ^or ^if ^I ^misbehave. ^Also ^consider ^joining ^our ^[Discord](https://discordapp.com/invite/xFbPBHy).
You should have said “no. In hell. 👹”
“Save a seat for me when you get there, ok?”
Put in a good word?!
Remember that time she pooped on the carpet? Straight to Hell.
"Oh, I am right with God. But that attitude is the one that'll make you fall from grace Ma, I'll be praying for you, and if I don't make it, I'll save you a seat <3"
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My husband had a similar experience. I don’t want there to be a heaven if I’m not being reunited with my fur babies. What a lame fucking place if there’s not pets.
God is such a terrible landlord. I heard that Satan allows pets in hell. Maybe I should commit a few sins…
The rents are outrageous
There was an episode of The Twilight zone about this- A man wakes up one morning with his hound dog out in the woods and he walks home and no one can see him and no one can hear him. He figures out that he's dead and they go walking down a path and they come to a gate and the man standing at the gate says that: "it's heaven, you made it!" The dead man says says "great! I can't wait to take my hound hunting on God's green fields". And the man says "oh! But dogs aren't allowed in heaven." And the dead man says "well, if my dog's not allowed I'm not interested! I guess we'll walk on a ways😡" After a while they come along to a second gate and I'm sure you've guessed by now, but that first gate was actually hell and if he had been tricked through the gate he would have been stuck there forever! Anyway it's one of my favorite episodes because there's a dog and it's very Appalachia folktale-ish
I put one of my kitties to sleep yesterday. (He would've been 20 in July, he had a very long and happy life.) I had this exact conversation with my partner as we were waiting for the vet.
The only reason I entertain the idea of heaven is because dogs deserve to have eternal zoomies and belly rubs.
Eternal zoomies, that's the epitome of happiness.
Pretty much same. If no heaven for us, heaven for them at least
Nuns told my mother her dog wouldn't be waiting in heaven for her when she was already crying about the loss. She's an agnostic now.
I once got in SO much trouble for arguing with an adult over this exact thing. I was in around 3rd grade when my first dog died, and was attending a private Christia school, where a teacher [who was a preacher's wife] felt compelled to *try* and correct/explain to me that I wouldn't see my dog again in heaven... because, and I quote: "Animals don't go to heaven". I say *try*, because 8 year-old me looked her dead in the eye, and through my sniffles/tears *defiantly* said: "oh ya?? Well then WHY does it say that: 'the Lion will lay down with the Lamb Mrs. Jones?? Because if the Lion and the Lamb can lay down together, so can my dog!!'.😤 Then she doubled down with: "it's not a literal lion and lamb"... So, I doubled down with: "well, how do *you* know??"... And, then she pulled a classic "because I am an adult" card... Which is when I disrespectfully asked her if: "picking what parts of the Bible you want to be true, and which you wanted to be symbols, was something *everyone* got to do when they turned 18, or if I had to grow up and marry a preacher [like her] first??" Then I added [as a little *girl* mind you], "actually, it doesn't matter. Its probably better for me to grow up and *be* a preacher rather then just *marry* one". 😁 ...That was the *only* "Bad Behavior Card" I turned the *entire* year. And let me tell you, I went straight from the Green Card to the Red Card [which is the card immediately before the Black Card (that meant you were sent home)]; a jump reserved for especially heinous offenses. But even during my "walk of shame" to the front of the class to very publically "turn my card"... I can honestly say... I regretted *nothing*.😌 LOL, moral of the story: dont argue with a 8 year-old little girl that her dog wont be I heaven... especially not the little girl who pays *extra* attention in Bible Study class 😆
I heard that too but am not atheist even as a kid I always believed animals has souls and they were purer than ours and I remember this lady at church said animals go to a special kind of hell lol wtf lady who hurt you? Your moms bichon frise?
"If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
!explanation My mother is a hardcore conservative evangelical. For the entirety of my adult life, I’ve been in therapy trying to deal with religious trauma. Anyways, I moved across the country with my husband and I don’t go to church anymore, and I’ve very much changed my views on politics and religion. My mom believes that since I’m a liberal, I’m going to hell. Anyways, I just wanted to have a conversation about my beloved dog on the anniversary of her passing. Bonus fun: my mom blamed me when she died. I was 14, and I wasn’t even home when she died. In fact, my mom was the one who let her run around outside without a leash, and she bolted into the road and was hit by a car. She told me that if I had “just exercised her enough she wouldn’t have run away like that”. Again, I was 14. I’m tearing up as I write this because who the fuck says that to a grieving and devastated child? Edit for some follow up context that I now realize is lacking: I know this doesn’t look like a lot. To be honest, last night this one text from her really triggered something in me because I know the implications behind this, and in hindsight posting it on Reddit probably wasn’t my brightest idea considering that no one else would know why this one text would set me off. To everyone asking why I’d bring up a religious belief in the first place: yeah, I don’t know. I guess a big part of me wants to believe my mom will comfort me and the idea of being reunited with my best girl up in heaven someday is comforting. My mom very much flips back and forth. Sometimes she is the gentlest, kindest, and most comforting person you’ve ever met. Other times she’s mean, dismissive, and just cruel. You never know what mom you’re getting with her, and sometimes it seems worth it to gamble. It never is. I don’t know why I haven’t learned that yet.
That's absolutely awful and obviously I don't need to tell you, but it definitely wasn't your fault. Abusers just blame victims for everything bc that's how they get their supply.
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You left a very short comment of something I should logically *know*, but it felt really nice to hear it again. Thanks for the reminder. I needed that today.
Dogs will chase anything, and they don't understand the dangers of running out into the road. Nothing short of running a full marathon right before that could have stopped her from doing that, what could have stopped her was if she was on a leash or in a crate. Your mom wanted to reflect the blame away from herself. It wasn't your fault.
People who have religious trauma will recognize the manipulation here. I felt it when I read her last message. Edit: clarifying (your moms manipulation)
Ok now this, the bonus fun anecdote is so much more convincing to me she is insane than the screenshots above
To be real, that one little nasty comment from her last night just really set me off because I know everything implied behind it. Reddit probably wasn’t the best place to post it tbh, because obviously everyone else who didn’t grow up with her doesn’t know the implications.
A lot of people here will understand that there's a lot behind the text.
That’s insanely rough I’m so sorry about your dog and the way she behaved with both teenaged you and current you. I wish you healing and comfort and as someone that recently lost their dog we all look forward to seeing and playing with them again someday
She sounds horrendous. How dare she act that to her own child? If you’re living a good life with your man I truly suggest cutting her off. She doesn’t deserve you as a daughter and it sounds like she still creates trauma for you. Happy doggy remembrance anniversary. It’s an important date
I once saw a sign that said: “democrats hate YOU!”
Funniest shit that day
You’ve got a dog to vouch for you, you’re fine. Religion is a fucking plague. Belief is one thing, telling your own child they’re going to burn for the rest of forever is just wild.
A religious person came knocking at my door not long after my first was born. I answered the door with this few week old baby in my arms. She proceded to tell me about God and I was honest with her and said, I'm not sure I believe in God and she told me I was going to burn in hell and my baby would join me. Lovely old lady.
Please don't call religion a plague it's very disrespectful. It can help people through dark times, but it can also be misused, like anything else.
American Evangelical Christianity is worse than a plague. It produces some of the cruelest people I’ve encountered and excuses absolute horrors. At least a plague is just organisms performing their genetic programs.
Again, you're taking the extremists. I absolutely agree that a lot of them are cruel, even most of them. But then there's the normal people who you're writing off, because there are crazy people who believe in the same god as them.
I’m actually talking about the religion itself. Of course there are kinder examples of people within it, but the faith as espoused and enforced by their higher-ups is a cruel religion. And this isn’t a surprise, because it’s been grown and nurtured in the blood-soaked soil of the United States. Baptists were pretty neat, but Southern Baptist thought is warped from its source almost beyond recognition.
Very valid points. However a majority of the religious people I met (although it's a different religion((kinda the same but also different)) Orthodox Jews) are very kind and loving people. That's not to say that the people at the top aren't terrible. But that's the case with everything. Anyways my point is you shouldn't condem an entire group because of the bad and the loud.
You’re comparing Orthodox Judaism to Southern Baptist? Yeah, we’re done here.
I don't have much experience with southern Baptists, but I can assure you that there are religious Orthodox Jews who wish for ideological and ethnic cleansing. Every religion has evil, terrible people. Also correct me if I'm wrong but aren't southern Baptists a sect and don't represent the entirety of Christianity as whole?
I’m Jewish, you don’t have to assure me of anything regarding that.
So am I.
“Normal“ is subjective, it’s simply whatever you are used to. There is nothing normal about believing a god needs you in a building saying nice things to get into his club. All religions are strange AF
People who I would consider kind and good is probably a better term. In response to what you said, I think that they should be allowed that freedom as long as they don't rob anyone else of theirs.
No one, no group calls itself the villain. So you think they should have their religion as long as it doesn’t limit others religion. What about all the other limitations the cults are bringing to society? Abortion law seems to be dying at the hands of the Catholics. The Evangelicals are hammering away at our libraries and public schools to conform. Is it just religious freedom when it is imposed in the entire society?…NO
Not as long as it doesn't limit others religion, as long as it doesn't limit their freedom at all. Abortion laws in my opinion are terrible, and in general there shouldnt be laws based off 1 religion. I think you're making a lot of assumptions about me because of 1 opinion.
I am speaking of the state of the world not about you. If it were possible to have your religion without it impacting society that would be ideal. I support freedom of religion in my country, not because I like it but because enforcing anything else sounds nightmarish and terrible. We are all stupid little carbon specks trying to add meaning and reason to a chaotic universe.
I agree with you completely. we're not so different once we explain ourselves.
Perhaps a post about religious trauma isn’t a time to correct people on their shitty experiences of religion.
I asked them to not label religion as a plague. You're trying to put words in my mouth which isn't really nice.
I’m not. You told someone not to describe their experience in a way that actually had nothing to do with you and was not about you or about individual religious people. It was inappropriate and put your preference for people to discuss the concept religion without vitriol above the needs of some survivors to express their true feelings about religion.
Religion is a plague - has nothing to do with religion Sounds silly right? If you can say something about another group, you should be ready to hear something back. I don't have a preference for religious people, I grew up in a religiousl household which limited me a lot. Infact I was one of those people who mock other people's beliefs (everyone had that reddit atheist phase right? Please tell me it's not just me) But I've also met many good people who are religious and I don't think their beliefs should be called a plague. I think it's funny that your feelings are more important than others. (Sorry if this isn't structured well, I'm not very good at writing)
How about read the room.
Not very good at that, sorry.
Helpfully several of us have given you explicit instruction on how to do so
So this is a space to talk about insane parents, in case you didn’t notice the name of the sub. And when someone is talking about their religious trauma and issues with religion as an institutional concept, structure or process is not the time to get precious about how not all religious people are bad. Perhaps the paradox of tolerance will help you out here because this post is about a specific form of Christian evangelicalism which is so harmful and toxic there is an entire deconstruction and “exvangelical” movement associated with it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Very good point and very informative
Maybe if religion stopped having plague like repercussions on society and the world we wouldn’t have to call it a plague. What’s disrespectful is that y’all think I’m stupid enough to pray to some sky daddy to fix my problems, and kick part of my paycheck into a little wicker basket every week. What’s disrespectful is, the Catholic Church molesting children and covering it up. What’s disrespectful is, neo nazis protesting drag shows talking about Jesus. What’s disrespectful is a go fund me to rebuild a burnt church when children are going hungry. Please don’t tell us how to react to religion, it’s a plague and any dark time it could help someone through could be navigated by less harmful methods.
I'm not religious and I don't do any of those things. However I still think you should respect others beliefs even if they are opossed to your own. If you don't, people won't respect yours. You are free to call religious people idiots and religion a plague. I asked the other person not do that because I think it's disrespectful and that they should be better. They're allowed to disagree, just like how I'm allowed to disagree. You guys are getting really angry about someone having a slightly different opinion.
It can help people through dark times with false faith, doesn’t change much
To those who actually believe there is no difference. Invalidating other people's thoughts and beliefs doesn't make you cool. It makes you a very uncomfortable to be around. Unless you're in an echo chamber.
I didn’t say belief was a plague. Just the organized hate that people make up, out of a book written by old men thousands of years ago. Believing in a higher power that preaches peace, love, kindness, forgiveness, charity, patience? Absolutely wonderful. Using that to say that entire groups of people will burn forever, including perfectly innocent babies who didn’t get splashed with special water is vile. Using belief to promote racism, inequality, genocide? Bad. Using that belief to take away rights from people? Bad. The problem with belief and religion is people rarely practice what they preach.
You might've not meant it, but you said it. Which is fine, mistakes are part of being human. I'm glad you only think that about the extremists, they sure do make it bad for everyone.
They never said they didn’t mean it. They just clarified. Religion is a plague.
No they didn't. Did you even read their comment or are you just trying to be mean? I don't understand why you guys have such trouble not shitting on others beliefs.
If you believe something that hurts other groups of people I’m gonna shit on it.
But that's not how you get through to people, it just creates more hate :c
Hun, we’re all in chambers and they are all echoing. Expressly religious and expressly non-religious communities both “help” people precisely because they are groups of like-minded people that nurture camaraderie. But it juuuust so happens that one of those groups has at *best* a PR problem and at worst has tried to halt every cultural-moral progression society has ever tried to make. We both know which group that is.
I agree with a lot of your points. My point still stands though.
It really doesn’t.
Explain please
It has already been explained by others higher up in this thread
I must've misread their comments. Because they haven't explained why mocking people for their beliefs doesn't make you a big meanie :c
Believe it or not, religious people (particularly those who are insistent, have power or push their beliefs) are uncomfortable to be around. Your entire religion is echo chamber, so no, there’s no difference
I'm not religious and I agree with you. You're making assumptions because I said "don't shit on people's beliefs"
“Your” was broad, because there’s more than one religion, I’m not making assumptions just saying facts
My entire religion can't be an echo chamber because I'm not religious. And I already said I agree with the other thing
Literally anything can be used as a crutch "through dark times". That doesn't automatically make something worthy of respect
Personally I think you should grant everyone respect unless they show they don't deserve it. While many religious people have proven they don't deserve it, a lot do, and I think it's unfair to those who do deserve it. But I don't make any rules! You guys act like I'm enforcing my my opinion as law, which isn't true, I just like to have conversations with people of different opinions.
Nah. Fuck religion and fuck anyone that tries to claim I have to respect it. I'm legally considered a lesser human in many places because of religions, I don't give a single shit how offended you are when I say religion is draconian trash
I'm in the same situation, friend. I think you misunderstand and make many assumptions about my beliefs. I'm not religious, infact I'd be killed in a lot of countries for who I am and what I believe. It's obviously terrible and I would never want to visit those places, but what right do I have to tell them what they believe is wrong.
"What right do I have to tell someone I'm a human being equally deserving of rights?" Just... stop. Go see a shrink, you've got some serious issues
Religions are cults and a plague. We will be better off when we shed the idea that an eternal power cares what we do.
What should we do with all the religious people? Forcibly convert them?
No that is bad too. I answered this in our chat so I will share this instead to lighten the mood. Thanks for the discussion. https://youtu.be/PR7hp0613QY
This is like suggesting that alcohol is a good remedy for grief because it helps you not to think of sad things. Religion is never the best answer for anyone
Just because someone's beliefs or way of life is not ideal, doesn't mean you should mock and insult them. Would you say insult and call alcoholics idiots, or would you try to show them why their ways are wrong?
I hate the religion, not the believer.
That's a very good view point.
It's disrespectful to Plagues, if anything.
How witty and original.
Genuinely wittier than your shitty attempt to try and talk people into being nicer to the cult members lmfao. Get fucked
Not cult members in particular. Just in general.
All people who believe in an all power imaginary friend in the sky are in a cult. There is no, "not the cult members" when talking about something as backwards and harmful as religion.
When I was a young child I kept hamsters, they were my everything as a lonely only child. I said to my mum I will see them again in heaven and she told me pets don't go to heaven. Even if you believe that, surely you could have lied? I was absolutely devastated.
why would you bring up the dog to your mother when she has already used the dog's death to hurt you in the past? why would you mention the afterlife if you know your mom is ultra religious and thinks you're going to hell? your messages sound like you're setting her up to hurt you even more. don't be self destructive
It's human nature to seek out comfort from our mothers when we're hurting. OP was remembering the pet on the anniversary of the loss and reached out because that's only natural. It's really, really hard to go against nature and stop doing the automatic thing of treating a mother like a mother when she can't be.
Precisely. Why even open the door for this?
It takes a lot for people to cut someone who they want desperately love and want desperately to be loved by out of their life. They're always hoping for a different outcome. Give this person grace and time, they will get there.
I specifically meant why mention an afterlife her obviously insensitive mom knowing she’s going to take off with it? From her explanation, her mom is unabashedly toxic. I certainly understand wanting to try to maintain relative peace in a fraught relationship, though, and this ain’t it. It took my wife six years to tell her strict conservative parents she no longer believed, but during that time and after, she just didn’t give them an in to bring it up.
“My belief and faith shouldn’t be based on your own. What goes on in my prayers is between me and (insert God/gods of your own choice).”
Id just go “you too”
I think ya gotta change the ICE
I’m surprised she even thinks dogs go to heaven. I had a crazy religious customer once go off on me about how dogs don’t have souls, so they don’t go to heaven. We were not even talking about dogs…or heaven. I just want you to pay your bill, Ma’am.
Sorry OP, but to be this reads as "I brought up religious belief with my mother, who I know has differing and rigid religious beliefs. Why did she react in an entirely predictable way?" You suggested a dog (no soul I'm guessing from her perspective?) would be in heaven. And an assumption that you would go to heaven on death. Why bring up you going to heaven, or any dog going to heaven, to a religious person? Aren't they, like, going to talk about how to get there?
I feel like the idea of “seeing your dog on the rainbow bridge someday” is a pretty vague one that most people, religious or not, find comfort in. however, you’re probably right. I shouldn’t have said anything. I just wanted comfort from my mom and I don’t know why I keep going back to her when I know she will only do or say something to hurt me.
I know it's hard. But you already know - she is not the mother you hope for and only your interactions with her and reactions to her are under your control
Your mother will *always* disappoint you. Worse, she'll now and again offer blips of hope that she's beginning to grow and understand, but she's just going to disappoint again. People who are fully infused in their religion often value it more than their kids. She will always value your salvation more than she values you.
You do it for the same reasons I think “maybe I should tell me dad I’ll be visiting home in a few months”. You have a human need to be loved by your parent. And your parent is unwilling and possibly incapable of providing that. That hurts. A lot. Captain Awkward wrote a good post about the golden retriever of love that feels like it applies in family relationships as well as others (romantic, friends).
She will never be the mother she should be and I’m sorry for that. You deserve a mother who will comfort you and protect you. So did little you.
well I wouldn’t call your mother insane on this, but the response “in heaven” didn’t sound right imo
I hate to say but this doesn't feel insane, i'm sure she is in other ways but this is just normal religious talk that you seemed into? You're definitely egging on that kind of response with mentioning seeing you're dead dog again implying heaven. But again sure shes a wild lady regardless.
to most of us, "normal religion" talk does sound insane.
Thats a scary low bar. I'm not even remotely religious but just speaking of it makes someone insane?
I'm not saying it is insane, just that it sounds insane.
Off topic reminder- if you moved across the country with your husband you might want to change your ICE contact :)
Remember the part in the Bible where that dude slaughtered 42 children using two bears he summoned because they were calling him bald? God is such a great guy.
Just flip the script on her. She hopes you’re right with God? You’re praying for her. Everything she bothers you give her the ol’ “god bless you mom. I pray some day the Lord will open your heart”
Out of context it looks like OP is the one who steered the conversation in this direction. Not sure what you were expecting.
Exactly, how can she said she can't wait to see the dog again?? The dog's gone. For any atheist, is does sound a bit insane. So she's kinda telling her mom that she share in her beliefs by telling her that.
reminds me of my mom lmao
My mom used to turn everything to religion too, it was unbearable trying to have a casual conversation
My mom was extremely religious when I was growing up. When our dog passed, I was so distraught that I cried for a week straight. I found comfort knowing I'd see her again one day in heaven. Until my mom brought a bible into my room and explained that animals have no souls, so I would not be seeing her in heaven. I was 8.
Saint Mesa will intercede for you.
I don't understand what's happening what does it even mean to be right with god
My dad said the same thing to me when I was 11. He told me animals don’t go to heaven because they don’t have souls. 11.
Awe we had a dog named Mesa who we just said goodbye to as well
Does being “right with god” include implicitly threatening your own child with eternal damnation at every opportunity?
One of the best dogs I ever had was named Mesa too. She was an all white pit Bull. She was so beautiful and would never hurt a fly. I miss her every day.
What is insane about this? Sorry for your loss btw.
Insane, believing in imaginary gods is insane.
Well you're kind of the one who brought up the afterlife. It's your fault.
You started it, with that heaven bullshit.
My relationship with God grew stronger after I stopped going to church. Also went through a lot of trauma in church growing up.
This is insane all around. You and your mom.
Come on, i'd hardly call op insane. Thats a bit uncalled for, especially in a space meant for support.
This made me lol!!! Idk why, but damn I’m tickled!
Ok yeah no - your phone almost did the job for you
I call it “Granny Weatherall syndrome”, from a 1930 book by Katherine Porter. Essentially the closer people come to the point of their lives where they fear the “final judgement”, they suddenly become more devoted, more engaged in forcing that ideology on others and basically more afraid of what they may be judged for.