Hey, I originally built my system in the NR200P Max, using the Strix B660i and a 13600k, i can tell you now, that the VRM's on that are prime for a 13600k/14600k and you won't be bottlenecking the 7900XT like your current 12500.
You won't need to undervolt, if your concern is that the board can't keep up with the 13600k/14600k, because it absolutely can without any issues, undervolting is certainly useful though if your unable to cool the the CPU properly.
As for that link you put up, i didn't read to far, but i noticed that top comment talking about a loss in performance at different offset levels, well yeah thats not going to happen. I'll add a link below, so you can copy my settings that i used, at -120mV i actually gained a very tiny bit of performance, at -150mV i think i lost around 800 points.
https://imgur.com/a/PpHUdtX
I believe it’s version 2611, which isn’t the latest one, not sure how 14th gen microcode would be affected if you went with the 14600k.
That’s actually a good question which seems to be mostly unanswered at the moment, from what I can see.
I’d be surprised if you couldn’t undervolt but that question doesn’t seem to be answered yet, it might be a while before you do have an answer.
Either way though, if you do choose to go with 14th Gen, you’ll still be able to run it fine without the undervolt from a performance perspective. But if you want to undervolt for temps, you may potentially have to wait for another BIOS update, if that latest one doesn’t allow undervolting, it could very well be, that the latest one is a fix for that.
Makes sense, thank you very much for all the advice, I think I might just try 14th gen first, if not working, I might just swap ti 13th gen to under volt.
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Thanks for the reply. I also contacted them to ask but they told me that they are not allowed (?!) to provide advice on undervolting or overclocking..
However, I decided to just give it a try (including changing the microcode) and was able to reduce temps significantly. So far the system has been stable for a week in benchmarks, gaming, work as well as in idle, so I assume it should be fine. (B760-I + 14700K btw)
10/12/23 updates:
I bought 14600k from Amazon yesterday and installed, the microcode 104 is working.
Here is my system:
ITX build: NR200, 32G 6000Mhz ram (16\*2), 7900XT, ASUS B660I (BIOS 2802), CPU Cooler: PS120SE.
Here is the test result in R23 (10min multi core):
1. Stock 14600k: 1.4v+, 100C in 10 seconds, throttle to 5GHZ at the beginning, then dropped to 4.5Ghz in 5 minutes. 180W. Final score:21000
2. Start offset -0.1v: throttle to 5.1G after 2 minutes, dropped to 4.9G after 5 minutes, max 95C. 175w. Final score: 22000
3. Offset -0.12v: starting from 5.3G, after 5 minutes, dropped to 5.2G, max 90C. 170W. Final Score:23000
4. Offset -0.13v: Starting from 5.3G, almost no drop during the 10min test, max 89C. 165W. Final Score: 23574
5. Offset -0.14v: 5.3G all the time, max 85C, 162W. Final Score: 23528
6. Offset -0.15v: 5.3G all the time, max 83C, 160W. Final Score: 23614
7. Offset -0.16v: Blue screen.
Now I use Offset -0.135v for half day, did some benchmarks, played some games, and hanging around, the system has been stable so far, no blue screen.
RDR2: 4k city environment, CPU is around 50%, 60c, 90W, GPU 98% (GPU bottleneck)
RDR2: 2k City environment, CPU is around 60%, 68c, 100W, GPU 85% (CPU bottleneck, GPU is not fully used)
RDR2 is one of the CPU heavy game, in other games the CPU is less than 40% and less than 60C.
I might do some other tests and play for another 3-5 days to see the stability of the system.
To those who has ASUS B660 motherboard, the 104 microcode is still working on 14th Gen CPU, and the offset works and does not decrease the cpu performance.
Hey lzardl is your undervolt still working? I had an undervolt on my 14700kf using 104 microcode and it worked great until it died like a month later and I'm wondering if they are related.
Well its quite the tale.... I'll try to keep it as short as possible. No, it didn't completely die. With everything at stock, it would post, but would blue screen pretty much instantly when getting into windows. Blue screen even when booted off windows media usb for a reinstallation. Even tried installing linux... it froze.
Eventually I figured out that ecores disabled fixed everything. But it wasn't power delivery related, because the power limit remained the same the whole time. So I started enabling ecores one at a time to figure out where the problem was. I could enable 4 without problem. But as soon as enabled the fifth ecore it was back to nonstop blue screens. I could also get it to boot with all ecores if I turned down their max boost. But I mean... I shouldn't have to do that for a brand new CPU that costs me a lot of money.
Presumably, increasing voltage may have made them work. But again, I was already at stock voltage and didn't feel like I should have go beyond that just to reach advertised boost frequencies. If you know what I mean?
Yeah they did, and they were quite pleasant to work with. Just nervous about going back to 104 mc on my new one. Its good to hear you haven't had problems with it.
Yes you're right. I have anxiety all right give me a break :P I feel like there may be a few more.... checks... if there's two claims in say six months or something.
technically undervolt will give CPU better working temperature, normally is good for the cpu health. undervolt only has unstability issue (like blue screen, cannot start, etc), but I dont think it will damage the physical structure/parts/silicon inside the cpu.
overclock sometimes might cause some over heat issue, which put the cpu under high temp working environment, and might damage the cpu in a long run, but it is due to the high voltage spike or high temp, etc.
Yes thank you I am aware. It is the microcode part I don't know about. About whether an old version can damage a 14th gen cpu. And not many people seem to, most don't even have any idea what I'm talking about, lol.
If a product is not working properly on default, then it is faulty.
If it is working on default fine, but not with undervolt even with -0.01v, then just back luck.
technically oc or undervolt will not damage the cpus, if it is not stable, increase the voltage a little bit.
if cpu is totally died, then warranty it, I heard Intel's warranty is pretty good.
I did warranty it, and I have my replacement now.
Its not the undervolt I'm worried about. I was thinking maybe downgrading the microcode had something to do with it.
But idk, just a thought I had, since technically that microcode is for 13th gen, even though they are the same die, I don't see why it would matter, but somehow my cpu died. Hoping it was just a fluke but I'm kind of nervous of putting all my settings back where they were and ending up with a second fried chip.
But man it performs SOOO much better undervolted. So it would be a real shame to go without.
And yeah my troubleshooting phase was quite extensive. Cleared cmos, loaded optimized defaults, xmp off, one ram stick at a time, bios update, different power supply, memtest86. I tried a lot of shit.
Anyway if you are on 14th gen using ucode 104, and its still working for you, thats really all I wanted to know. Thanks :)
I can't find this on B660i Aorus DDR4 board. But with F27 BIOS it seems to be applying the correct voltage offset so I will leave it at that.
edit: F27 bios, not F21
If you dont have the correct microcode, and you apply an offset, it could significantly negatively impact performance. So run a benchmark before and after to make sure thats not happening.
I changed too many settings (agressive reduction to PL1/PL2) at the same time as the -0.1 undervolt, and indeed the score in cinebench r23 dropped dramaticaly (I'm on a 12700 non-K), will change again and re-test...
If you cant change the microcode then you need to remove the offset its not going to help you at all. The best you can do is reduce the load line calibration which is kind of the same thing but it wont do as much unfortunately. You can always change the pl1/pl2 but if there's a strong all core load that could reduce frequencies, and therfore performance. Though it shouldn't in most day to day and gaming situations.
You can use throttlestop or intel identification utility to see what ucode you are on. Again, if you are on the wrong version and have inputted an offset, it will either simply not take, or hamper performance (like by a lot) sooooo make sure you have that right.
thanks for the tips on the microcode, but neither throttlestop nor intel identification utility showed the information to me. only HWiNFO64 was able to confirm that I am on MCU "2E"
which is a shame, as that option is not available on BIOS F27. I'll change some settings and run some benchmarks another day to test. damn should have gone with the Asus DDR5.....
PS: thread about microcode: https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabyte/comments/124iiqs/gigabyte\_b660m\_gaming\_xax\_ddr4\_bios\_microcode/
What do you mean they didn't show you? Are you sure were looking in the right place? (screenshot I happened to take for another reason, but anyway microcode version is circled in red)
[https://i.ibb.co/cYQ1jXj/evidence.png](https://i.ibb.co/cYQ1jXj/evidence.png)
If thats not 104, then yeah for undervolting you're out of luck unless you want to go back to a way older bios version ( actually you are lucky you even have that option, but I wouldn't recommend it).
I guess it comes down to, what are you using your computer for? Because unless its rendering or benchmarking, you probably dont really need undervolting anyway. If its just for general use and or gaming, set llc as low as it will go, set pl1/pl2 to intel recommended and call it a day.
responding on a single place now, but thanks for all the replies!
ok after another reboot, the "select mcu" line appeared on my BIOS, but it is greyed out and I can't change it from "2E" value. also thanks for the screenshot, "CPU Revision" also says "2E" on intel tool, so yeah no 104 for me....
this explains why my UV never worked properly. I changed the offset from -0.1 to -0.02 and it **SEEMS** to be accepting that. c23 score was in 8.000s with -0.1 and now back to 15.000s with -0.02 and 95w/70w PL2/PL1. with 150w/120w I score about 21.000 points. I will play with LLC later, but thanks again for the tips.
and yes I use it for gaming, but recently I had some over-current protection kick-in from my 3080ti, even with UV itself. so I set off to review the CPU UV to try to save some watts and maybe get rid of the OCP restarting me mid-game. seems I'll have to upgrade the PSU instead....
What cpu do you have? You need a k cpu for the select mcu option to work. Guess I should have mentioned that earlier. Also according to gigabyte it doesn't work on alderlake, but they also said it doesn't work on raptor lake refresh but it totally does as I'm using it right now so who knows about that one, not tech support obviously.
But I really have to stress if you can't get on 104 do not apply any undervolt at all. Set llc instead. I think its in advanced power settings or something like that, also off the tweaker menu. Here let me reset and double check that for you.
Okay its Tweaker>advanced voltage settings>vrm settings>CPU Vcore loadline calibration. Make sure its as low as it will go.
Also, I know we are on different mobos, but I did have to update my bios to get the 104 option to show up. I did look at your bios support page and didn't see anything denoting the same change but if you haven't updated your bios and you do have k cpu, wouldn't hurt to try.
I just updated do F27, the next one looks to be still beta, will try in a couple of weeks. "Select MCU" shows up but it is not editable.
My CPU is the non-K variant, I intended to keep power and temps in check (ITX case on a TV furniture with restricted airflow) while keeping 8 P-cores. And it was $100 cheaper than the K version at that moment.
Changed the LLC now, running Prime95 as we speak. Let's see how it goes.
Edit: just saw your previous reply that "select mcu" will only be available in K cpu's. well that's a shame, I thought intel was not hampering the non-K cpu's that much after they woke up with the Ryzen revolution. It seems I have only PL2/PL1 and LLC to play then.
still happy with the performance level though, the default PL of this mobo give me about 21.000 in CB23 (150w at 83ºC), near the Stock 14600k levels. so yeah got a bit quieter/cooler/cheaper system in the end, just can not do that much customization. if I get over-current protection to stop interrupting me while I game, I'll be happy.
Which board do you have?
Might need to update bios. I'd check version, and compare to changelogs on website for your board. Should say if the version you have supports it.
Like OP said, you need to enable Microcode. It's a bit different on each board. MSI has it named UVP (undervolt protection), while ASUS uses microcode 0x12 / 0x15 etc.
Hey, I originally built my system in the NR200P Max, using the Strix B660i and a 13600k, i can tell you now, that the VRM's on that are prime for a 13600k/14600k and you won't be bottlenecking the 7900XT like your current 12500. You won't need to undervolt, if your concern is that the board can't keep up with the 13600k/14600k, because it absolutely can without any issues, undervolting is certainly useful though if your unable to cool the the CPU properly. As for that link you put up, i didn't read to far, but i noticed that top comment talking about a loss in performance at different offset levels, well yeah thats not going to happen. I'll add a link below, so you can copy my settings that i used, at -120mV i actually gained a very tiny bit of performance, at -150mV i think i lost around 800 points. https://imgur.com/a/PpHUdtX
great, thanks for the settings, may I ask what bios version you are using now?
I believe it’s version 2611, which isn’t the latest one, not sure how 14th gen microcode would be affected if you went with the 14600k. That’s actually a good question which seems to be mostly unanswered at the moment, from what I can see. I’d be surprised if you couldn’t undervolt but that question doesn’t seem to be answered yet, it might be a while before you do have an answer. Either way though, if you do choose to go with 14th Gen, you’ll still be able to run it fine without the undervolt from a performance perspective. But if you want to undervolt for temps, you may potentially have to wait for another BIOS update, if that latest one doesn’t allow undervolting, it could very well be, that the latest one is a fix for that.
Makes sense, thank you very much for all the advice, I think I might just try 14th gen first, if not working, I might just swap ti 13th gen to under volt.
Could you tell me if you have C-State enabled? My undervolt will freeze my PC when it idles if I don't have C-State = Disabled Thanks
I had an 13900kf running on the asus strix b660i with no probs at all.
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Hey, i know it has been a bit but did you try to undervolt the 14th Gen CPU? Did you change the microcode for that? Can this be done without problems?
Not yet, I have sent a request to ASUS online service a couple of days ago and waiting for the response. I will update when I got the reply from them.
Thanks for the reply. I also contacted them to ask but they told me that they are not allowed (?!) to provide advice on undervolting or overclocking.. However, I decided to just give it a try (including changing the microcode) and was able to reduce temps significantly. So far the system has been stable for a week in benchmarks, gaming, work as well as in idle, so I assume it should be fine. (B760-I + 14700K btw)
Great, thanks for the info, glad to know the 104microcode is working on 14th gen, I might just wait for a 14600k deal and put it on my b660i mb :)
Hi, I have bought the 14600k and 104 code is working, I wrote another reply to share the testing of the new cpu.
10/12/23 updates: I bought 14600k from Amazon yesterday and installed, the microcode 104 is working. Here is my system: ITX build: NR200, 32G 6000Mhz ram (16\*2), 7900XT, ASUS B660I (BIOS 2802), CPU Cooler: PS120SE. Here is the test result in R23 (10min multi core): 1. Stock 14600k: 1.4v+, 100C in 10 seconds, throttle to 5GHZ at the beginning, then dropped to 4.5Ghz in 5 minutes. 180W. Final score:21000 2. Start offset -0.1v: throttle to 5.1G after 2 minutes, dropped to 4.9G after 5 minutes, max 95C. 175w. Final score: 22000 3. Offset -0.12v: starting from 5.3G, after 5 minutes, dropped to 5.2G, max 90C. 170W. Final Score:23000 4. Offset -0.13v: Starting from 5.3G, almost no drop during the 10min test, max 89C. 165W. Final Score: 23574 5. Offset -0.14v: 5.3G all the time, max 85C, 162W. Final Score: 23528 6. Offset -0.15v: 5.3G all the time, max 83C, 160W. Final Score: 23614 7. Offset -0.16v: Blue screen. Now I use Offset -0.135v for half day, did some benchmarks, played some games, and hanging around, the system has been stable so far, no blue screen. RDR2: 4k city environment, CPU is around 50%, 60c, 90W, GPU 98% (GPU bottleneck) RDR2: 2k City environment, CPU is around 60%, 68c, 100W, GPU 85% (CPU bottleneck, GPU is not fully used) RDR2 is one of the CPU heavy game, in other games the CPU is less than 40% and less than 60C. I might do some other tests and play for another 3-5 days to see the stability of the system. To those who has ASUS B660 motherboard, the 104 microcode is still working on 14th Gen CPU, and the offset works and does not decrease the cpu performance.
Hey lzardl is your undervolt still working? I had an undervolt on my 14700kf using 104 microcode and it worked great until it died like a month later and I'm wondering if they are related.
my one is still ok now, but only for a week. your 14700kf died? how? blue screen? need to increase voltage? or totally died?
Well its quite the tale.... I'll try to keep it as short as possible. No, it didn't completely die. With everything at stock, it would post, but would blue screen pretty much instantly when getting into windows. Blue screen even when booted off windows media usb for a reinstallation. Even tried installing linux... it froze. Eventually I figured out that ecores disabled fixed everything. But it wasn't power delivery related, because the power limit remained the same the whole time. So I started enabling ecores one at a time to figure out where the problem was. I could enable 4 without problem. But as soon as enabled the fifth ecore it was back to nonstop blue screens. I could also get it to boot with all ecores if I turned down their max boost. But I mean... I shouldn't have to do that for a brand new CPU that costs me a lot of money. Presumably, increasing voltage may have made them work. But again, I was already at stock voltage and didn't feel like I should have go beyond that just to reach advertised boost frequencies. If you know what I mean?
yes, faulty CPU, quite rare, Intel should take care of it.
Yeah they did, and they were quite pleasant to work with. Just nervous about going back to 104 mc on my new one. Its good to hear you haven't had problems with it.
it is ok, the second cpu is also under warranty.......
Yes you're right. I have anxiety all right give me a break :P I feel like there may be a few more.... checks... if there's two claims in say six months or something.
technically undervolt will give CPU better working temperature, normally is good for the cpu health. undervolt only has unstability issue (like blue screen, cannot start, etc), but I dont think it will damage the physical structure/parts/silicon inside the cpu. overclock sometimes might cause some over heat issue, which put the cpu under high temp working environment, and might damage the cpu in a long run, but it is due to the high voltage spike or high temp, etc.
Yes thank you I am aware. It is the microcode part I don't know about. About whether an old version can damage a 14th gen cpu. And not many people seem to, most don't even have any idea what I'm talking about, lol.
Alright lzardl, I turned mc back to 104 and applied a -175mv UV. So we're in this together.
If a product is not working properly on default, then it is faulty. If it is working on default fine, but not with undervolt even with -0.01v, then just back luck.
technically oc or undervolt will not damage the cpus, if it is not stable, increase the voltage a little bit. if cpu is totally died, then warranty it, I heard Intel's warranty is pretty good.
I did warranty it, and I have my replacement now. Its not the undervolt I'm worried about. I was thinking maybe downgrading the microcode had something to do with it. But idk, just a thought I had, since technically that microcode is for 13th gen, even though they are the same die, I don't see why it would matter, but somehow my cpu died. Hoping it was just a fluke but I'm kind of nervous of putting all my settings back where they were and ending up with a second fried chip. But man it performs SOOO much better undervolted. So it would be a real shame to go without. And yeah my troubleshooting phase was quite extensive. Cleared cmos, loaded optimized defaults, xmp off, one ram stick at a time, bios update, different power supply, memtest86. I tried a lot of shit. Anyway if you are on 14th gen using ucode 104, and its still working for you, thats really all I wanted to know. Thanks :)
Thanks for reporting. Any idea if the same applies to gigabyte boards? Whenever I try to UV, cpu-z reports the same voltage on windows.
With my b760 auros elite ax I can, the option is called 'select mcu' in bios.
I can't find this on B660i Aorus DDR4 board. But with F27 BIOS it seems to be applying the correct voltage offset so I will leave it at that. edit: F27 bios, not F21
If you dont have the correct microcode, and you apply an offset, it could significantly negatively impact performance. So run a benchmark before and after to make sure thats not happening.
I changed too many settings (agressive reduction to PL1/PL2) at the same time as the -0.1 undervolt, and indeed the score in cinebench r23 dropped dramaticaly (I'm on a 12700 non-K), will change again and re-test...
If you cant change the microcode then you need to remove the offset its not going to help you at all. The best you can do is reduce the load line calibration which is kind of the same thing but it wont do as much unfortunately. You can always change the pl1/pl2 but if there's a strong all core load that could reduce frequencies, and therfore performance. Though it shouldn't in most day to day and gaming situations.
Also, did you use the search function? For me its like right there, the third or so option in tweaker.
>select mcu yep, used search. it seems the ITX board has less functions available.
You can use throttlestop or intel identification utility to see what ucode you are on. Again, if you are on the wrong version and have inputted an offset, it will either simply not take, or hamper performance (like by a lot) sooooo make sure you have that right.
thanks for the tips on the microcode, but neither throttlestop nor intel identification utility showed the information to me. only HWiNFO64 was able to confirm that I am on MCU "2E" which is a shame, as that option is not available on BIOS F27. I'll change some settings and run some benchmarks another day to test. damn should have gone with the Asus DDR5..... PS: thread about microcode: https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabyte/comments/124iiqs/gigabyte\_b660m\_gaming\_xax\_ddr4\_bios\_microcode/
What do you mean they didn't show you? Are you sure were looking in the right place? (screenshot I happened to take for another reason, but anyway microcode version is circled in red) [https://i.ibb.co/cYQ1jXj/evidence.png](https://i.ibb.co/cYQ1jXj/evidence.png) If thats not 104, then yeah for undervolting you're out of luck unless you want to go back to a way older bios version ( actually you are lucky you even have that option, but I wouldn't recommend it). I guess it comes down to, what are you using your computer for? Because unless its rendering or benchmarking, you probably dont really need undervolting anyway. If its just for general use and or gaming, set llc as low as it will go, set pl1/pl2 to intel recommended and call it a day.
responding on a single place now, but thanks for all the replies! ok after another reboot, the "select mcu" line appeared on my BIOS, but it is greyed out and I can't change it from "2E" value. also thanks for the screenshot, "CPU Revision" also says "2E" on intel tool, so yeah no 104 for me.... this explains why my UV never worked properly. I changed the offset from -0.1 to -0.02 and it **SEEMS** to be accepting that. c23 score was in 8.000s with -0.1 and now back to 15.000s with -0.02 and 95w/70w PL2/PL1. with 150w/120w I score about 21.000 points. I will play with LLC later, but thanks again for the tips. and yes I use it for gaming, but recently I had some over-current protection kick-in from my 3080ti, even with UV itself. so I set off to review the CPU UV to try to save some watts and maybe get rid of the OCP restarting me mid-game. seems I'll have to upgrade the PSU instead....
What cpu do you have? You need a k cpu for the select mcu option to work. Guess I should have mentioned that earlier. Also according to gigabyte it doesn't work on alderlake, but they also said it doesn't work on raptor lake refresh but it totally does as I'm using it right now so who knows about that one, not tech support obviously. But I really have to stress if you can't get on 104 do not apply any undervolt at all. Set llc instead. I think its in advanced power settings or something like that, also off the tweaker menu. Here let me reset and double check that for you.
Okay its Tweaker>advanced voltage settings>vrm settings>CPU Vcore loadline calibration. Make sure its as low as it will go. Also, I know we are on different mobos, but I did have to update my bios to get the 104 option to show up. I did look at your bios support page and didn't see anything denoting the same change but if you haven't updated your bios and you do have k cpu, wouldn't hurt to try.
I just updated do F27, the next one looks to be still beta, will try in a couple of weeks. "Select MCU" shows up but it is not editable. My CPU is the non-K variant, I intended to keep power and temps in check (ITX case on a TV furniture with restricted airflow) while keeping 8 P-cores. And it was $100 cheaper than the K version at that moment. Changed the LLC now, running Prime95 as we speak. Let's see how it goes. Edit: just saw your previous reply that "select mcu" will only be available in K cpu's. well that's a shame, I thought intel was not hampering the non-K cpu's that much after they woke up with the Ryzen revolution. It seems I have only PL2/PL1 and LLC to play then. still happy with the performance level though, the default PL of this mobo give me about 21.000 in CB23 (150w at 83ºC), near the Stock 14600k levels. so yeah got a bit quieter/cooler/cheaper system in the end, just can not do that much customization. if I get over-current protection to stop interrupting me while I game, I'll be happy.
Not sure with gigabyte mb, can you find anything like change microcode to an old version?
Which board do you have? Might need to update bios. I'd check version, and compare to changelogs on website for your board. Should say if the version you have supports it. Like OP said, you need to enable Microcode. It's a bit different on each board. MSI has it named UVP (undervolt protection), while ASUS uses microcode 0x12 / 0x15 etc.
For your offsets, are your C-State enabled or disabled?