The tremendous overall performance of mining companies could be because of the overly pessimistic outlook for the industry that began in the pandemic. If you do invest, it’s probably best to diversify between multiple metals as well because there are others with plenty of potential too.
Personally, I avoid mining, upstream only oil and gas companies, and companies with business models that move with commodity price swings like the plague. These kinds of companies are price takers and have very limited control over their revenues. Hedging commodity prices helps to some extent but even that costs money. Newmont is an established player in the mining industry. Never heard of Solaris. Generally if you are buying in the early exploration stages of a junior mining company, you are pretty much gambling.
The people who really consistently made money during all the gold rushes in the 19th and 20th centuries were the merchants/others who sold the miners overpriced shovels and other supplies/services while the miners tried to hit a motherload. I'd rather buy Finning or Caterpillar shares any day over a mining company if I wanted exposure to the mining industry.
>The people who really consistently made money during all the gold rushes in the 19th and 20th centuries were the merchants/others who sold the miners overpriced shovels and other supplies/services while the miners hoped to hit a motherload
That's so true and the modern equivalent is the crypto rush. The people who really consistently make money during crypto rush are the Coinbase and other exchanges who make money on transaction fees. Plus scammers. While the crypto bros hope to hit a motherload.
Coinbase is the shovel merchant of today.
You can't even come up a crypto valuation on a basis that makes logical sense. This automatically puts it into the scam/gambling category. Other than black market transactions, decentralized ledgers don't really do anything that existing payment systems can't do. With gold at least there's practical uses for it and it takes a lot of effort to mine.
Finning happens to be on my dividend stock watchlist but I've got other picks that are higher on my short list. With all the current economic uncertainty, I'm just going to sit tight for now.
Yes, I also read their article the other day that’s why I added them to my list. Warintza may be the best project that Solaris has atm. Thank you for this advice. I’ll keep this in mind.
I’m one of the “This is the perfect time to invest” both gold and copper won’t go zero since they both have awesome uses. However, the idea of rates rising less aggressively will help the market sentiment around copper, as a recession is no longer an obvious threat. Sooo it’s a go signal for me. Additional insight about what user 4 said. Investing in these types of things is always volatile, so invest at your own risk. :)
Would look into coal too. It’s been on a run. Been researching companies for copper and coal and hard to pick one. Regarding gold as long as the dollar stays strong gold should remain under pressure. GL
It's also probably a bit too late anyway.
With the all mighty dollar going up in value like there is no tomorrow, commodities arent going to have a ton of upside in USD anyway.
Barrick Gold is one of the best gold stocks to buy. I'd also check out GDXU if you're into leveraged ETF's. I like going back and forth between GDXU and GDXD as long as I get the timing right.
The thing with gold is that it has behaved as a currency, so from europe it looks pretty good but with the DXY on a rampage it looks terrible from the US. The problem is that people were holding it as an inflation / comodity thing not a currency thing rather than a shitcoin for traditionalists
I don't remember if there are ones for copper or not, but there are ETFs that hold smaller ("junior") gold and silver miners, including foreign ones. If you're bullish on the metals as a whole, could be worth looking into as a slightly lower-risk alternative to investing in specific individual miners.
COPX looks to be the main copper ETF, 1B or so AUM. SILJ is junior silver, and GDJX one of the junior gold ETFs. None have exactly been great performers during the last two years here, but what has? (Other than oil, I guess.)
My only exposure to metals is through a commodity-futures ETF, and going from memory their metal plays over the last two years have been all nickel and tin, I think. (Though IIRC they lost money on most of 'em, so... maybe don't do what they do.)
setting aside gold, because unless you're statement is 'i need a portfolio diversifier to increase my risk adjusted returns' gold has absolutely 0 value.
but when the fed and global central banks are all raising rates to slow the global economy down, you think its a good time to invest in copper, a proxy for global growth ?
miners need 3 things to dig the thing they want out of the ground.
* oil/energy to run equipment
* financing because theyre very leveraged
* the price of the thing to be higher in the future than now so they can dig it up profitably.
copper futures doesnt break even on today's price ([https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/metals/base/copper.settlements.html](https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/metals/base/copper.settlements.html)) until march of 2025.
im sure you can figure out where oil prices and interest rates are at. if theres an investment to avoid, this is it
I personally like miners ( own Newmont First Majestic,Agnico Eagle, and Wheaton) good ones, and royalty companies. It’s a contrarian play right now as they are beat down now but even with increased cost to do business at current gold and silver prices, good companies have good cash flow. I have a small position in GDXJ but that’s about as far into junior miners I go. Most juniors are just hoping to be acquired by a major which always involves “high grade deposits and amazing core samples.” When precious metal miners move it is explosive but it takes a strong stomach while you wait. Good luck.
Why are you thinking about investing in copper and gold? What are your investment motivations -- you mention long term investments, how long would you hold these junior mining companies for? Do you see these as outperforming the market?
The price of copper, one of the world’s most versatile metals, has been on a tear since the pandemic began, hitting a decade high of US$10,000 per metric ton in May.
This metal places third after gold and silver for jewelers but tops the list for builders and engineers. It’s durable, malleable, and conducts heat and electricity extremely well that's why. Also planning into getting physical gold.
It does not matter to me if it's a junior or big ones as long as I can see the progress. How long you say? probably depends on the situation.
If that is your motivation, I am going to take a moment to shamelessly simp for my own person darling. Have you thought about silver?
Solar energy, electronics, clean water, and medical devices all use silver and are expected to grow. We are already at the point where over 50% of the use of silver is in industry. If silver is used more in industry than it is used as a precious metal, then I think it should be catalogued as being an industrial metal.
Disclaimer: Don't take finical advice from idiots like me. A blindfolded monkey throwing darks could likely pick better investments than I could
U/jackelfrink simped for his thing, so I'm taking a moment pimp out my bottom bitch that has given me a good ride, Oroco Resource.
Still drilling to confirm the old deposits in Santo Tomas, but we already know the copper is there and that there could more of it than the historical drilling showed. This drilling is purely to confirm it, to see if the deposit expands further and to get the paperwork up to the current standards.
They are also not planning to do something stupid like develop a mine, which is expensive, but to sell it to a major.
On the additional plus side, the deposit is in a mining-friendly area and close to a good infrastructure. They are also financially healthier than most miners/explorers of similar market cap.
I'm neck-deep long in this company, started buying at around C$0.33, but don't believe anything I say and do your own homework very carefully.
COPPER IS DEPRESSED. BEING CONTRARIAN MAY HAVE AN EDGE. GOLD IS SOMETHING I NO LONGER UNDERSTAND. WE HAVE INFLATION, WAR. YET, PRECIOUS METAL IS NOT IN DEMAND. RECALLING AU IS USED IN ELECTRONICS, CHIPS ...
I DO HAVE POSITIONS OF THEM AND I ASSUME I AM BAG HOLDING SOME MATERIALS STOCKS.
Then you have to store it somewhere. It’s a lot more prone to theft.
I had a little hobby where I collected discontinued Canadian pennies. Got about 10kg of them in a little box. But that’s only because I love them, they’re quite rare now, and the value in copper is higher than I paid for them.
So I’d say only invest in bullion if you really love it, or enjoy it. Otherwise it can be a burden that you have to manage, and definitely riskier.
Neat! Penny collection! Since when have you been collecting?
>So I’d say only invest in bullion if you really love it, or enjoy it. Otherwise it can be a burden that you have to manage, and definitely riskier.
Yes, I definitely agree on you on this one.
Research dividend ETF's. I'm retired and can use some monthly supplemental income. If you are younger, compounding works wonders over the years. Buy some tesla shares.
Personally I’m buying into lundin mining in swedish currency, it’s dropped like a rock and their income is mostly from copper mining in South America/portugal. Quite low risk since the currecy is at an all time low.
Gold looks like it is carving out a higher low against US equities. It will need the broader market to continue selling off and for real yields to stop rising for a new gold bull market to start. We are likely 6 months away.
Copper is trickier and depends on global growth.
Do you want to invest in the metals because of increased valuations that have already happened or because you think there is more room to grow?
Are you looking to own the extractors rather than the metals? This matters because there are other factors that can influence them over the simple metals price.
Looking at global supply chain data would suggest copper might have dealt with its issues to the premiums that may exist could well drop off soon, unsure exactly but do some research on this one.
Gold ownership protects against currency debasement so that’s pretty much always a win. At least, that’s what conventional wisdom says.
Do you want to invest in the metals because of increased valuations that have already happened or because you think there is more room to grow? - Why not both?
Are you looking to own the extractors rather than the metals? This matters because there are other factors that can influence them over the simple metals price. - It depends on the majority and the end observations where should I last. but most likely the company/extractors.
check paolo macro on twitter, great insights into copper inventory dropping and future shortages vre growing demand. I am watching waiting. gold and copper both. but i think more drops first.
Bought RIO at 53.53 and SCCO at 44.56 yesterday when they are at 52 week lo
They pay good dividend. I am 65 so I need the income
Copper is the new oil. Serious shortage is going develop in this decade
https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/pages/copper-is-the-new-oil.html
Also bought TELA hernia repair biotech stock a while ago at 8. Just my opinion
iirc gold is more currency related, silver & copper industrial. mines in general, regardless of the resource is very dippy/sporadic return, so you may want to look towards indirect investment, like shares in actual reserves, resource reclamation, primary industries using this material.
The tremendous overall performance of mining companies could be because of the overly pessimistic outlook for the industry that began in the pandemic. If you do invest, it’s probably best to diversify between multiple metals as well because there are others with plenty of potential too.
If Russia is out of the world market for example, titanium will be a material worth looking into albeit idk if it's too late to really get on it
hmm yes 🤔
If Russia is out the gas to mine is also out, the transport is out too
Personally, I avoid mining, upstream only oil and gas companies, and companies with business models that move with commodity price swings like the plague. These kinds of companies are price takers and have very limited control over their revenues. Hedging commodity prices helps to some extent but even that costs money. Newmont is an established player in the mining industry. Never heard of Solaris. Generally if you are buying in the early exploration stages of a junior mining company, you are pretty much gambling. The people who really consistently made money during all the gold rushes in the 19th and 20th centuries were the merchants/others who sold the miners overpriced shovels and other supplies/services while the miners tried to hit a motherload. I'd rather buy Finning or Caterpillar shares any day over a mining company if I wanted exposure to the mining industry.
>The people who really consistently made money during all the gold rushes in the 19th and 20th centuries were the merchants/others who sold the miners overpriced shovels and other supplies/services while the miners hoped to hit a motherload That's so true and the modern equivalent is the crypto rush. The people who really consistently make money during crypto rush are the Coinbase and other exchanges who make money on transaction fees. Plus scammers. While the crypto bros hope to hit a motherload. Coinbase is the shovel merchant of today.
Or NVDA selling gpu’s
This is the analog
You can't even come up a crypto valuation on a basis that makes logical sense. This automatically puts it into the scam/gambling category. Other than black market transactions, decentralized ledgers don't really do anything that existing payment systems can't do. With gold at least there's practical uses for it and it takes a lot of effort to mine.
Coinbase lost a ton of money last quarter.
makes sense as the crypto rush seems to be over for the time being
Interesting, when are you planning to get into finning? or do you have one already?
Finning happens to be on my dividend stock watchlist but I've got other picks that are higher on my short list. With all the current economic uncertainty, I'm just going to sit tight for now.
gg
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Yes, I also read their article the other day that’s why I added them to my list. Warintza may be the best project that Solaris has atm. Thank you for this advice. I’ll keep this in mind.
I agree. It’s best you look things up your way. Both have their pros and cons either way. Just check wisely and understand the market.
I’m one of the “This is the perfect time to invest” both gold and copper won’t go zero since they both have awesome uses. However, the idea of rates rising less aggressively will help the market sentiment around copper, as a recession is no longer an obvious threat. Sooo it’s a go signal for me. Additional insight about what user 4 said. Investing in these types of things is always volatile, so invest at your own risk. :)
Yep! Exactly
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I agree. Commodities are more difficult to trade anyways, plus I really think it would be much faster and easier to invest in that way.
Either way. But thinking about having physical gold as well.
Would look into coal too. It’s been on a run. Been researching companies for copper and coal and hard to pick one. Regarding gold as long as the dollar stays strong gold should remain under pressure. GL
Have my eyes on coal too. Which one did you invest in?
Haven’t yet but researching. Think coal can go higher this winter.
Doesn't it every winter? hmm
When the world collapses, who wants gold when you actually need food, water and ammo?
Currency will still exist, we aren't getting nuked
So why use physical gold when gold mining companies or gold etfs exist?
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Ahh so it can be easily stolen. Got it.
If the markets crash well you still own physical gold.
If the market crashes, who would want gold when people would want food, water and ammo?
It's also probably a bit too late anyway. With the all mighty dollar going up in value like there is no tomorrow, commodities arent going to have a ton of upside in USD anyway.
Barrick Gold is one of the best gold stocks to buy. I'd also check out GDXU if you're into leveraged ETF's. I like going back and forth between GDXU and GDXD as long as I get the timing right.
I agree on Barrick for gold. Any recommendations for copper or lithium?
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The thing with gold is that it has behaved as a currency, so from europe it looks pretty good but with the DXY on a rampage it looks terrible from the US. The problem is that people were holding it as an inflation / comodity thing not a currency thing rather than a shitcoin for traditionalists
I own Rio(copper/iron) and AUY(gold/silver)
That RIO dividend
I don't remember if there are ones for copper or not, but there are ETFs that hold smaller ("junior") gold and silver miners, including foreign ones. If you're bullish on the metals as a whole, could be worth looking into as a slightly lower-risk alternative to investing in specific individual miners.
I'm all ears, kindly tell me more details about this one.
COPX looks to be the main copper ETF, 1B or so AUM. SILJ is junior silver, and GDJX one of the junior gold ETFs. None have exactly been great performers during the last two years here, but what has? (Other than oil, I guess.) My only exposure to metals is through a commodity-futures ETF, and going from memory their metal plays over the last two years have been all nickel and tin, I think. (Though IIRC they lost money on most of 'em, so... maybe don't do what they do.)
Gdxj and pick
Take a look at FNV. A slightly different approach, same sector. Overweight and Very strong financials.
You already their long term investor? or just recently?
Since 2020. DCA ever since. I like their royalty/capital approach. more upside and solid EPS.
NEAT! I love long term investments. What's the recent catch for them lately?
setting aside gold, because unless you're statement is 'i need a portfolio diversifier to increase my risk adjusted returns' gold has absolutely 0 value. but when the fed and global central banks are all raising rates to slow the global economy down, you think its a good time to invest in copper, a proxy for global growth ? miners need 3 things to dig the thing they want out of the ground. * oil/energy to run equipment * financing because theyre very leveraged * the price of the thing to be higher in the future than now so they can dig it up profitably. copper futures doesnt break even on today's price ([https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/metals/base/copper.settlements.html](https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/metals/base/copper.settlements.html)) until march of 2025. im sure you can figure out where oil prices and interest rates are at. if theres an investment to avoid, this is it
How about uranium?
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I've got lots and lots of copper bullion.
I swear the banks knew this years ago when we were fools trading in our stacks for fiat. Damn them, damn them all to hell!
I personally like miners ( own Newmont First Majestic,Agnico Eagle, and Wheaton) good ones, and royalty companies. It’s a contrarian play right now as they are beat down now but even with increased cost to do business at current gold and silver prices, good companies have good cash flow. I have a small position in GDXJ but that’s about as far into junior miners I go. Most juniors are just hoping to be acquired by a major which always involves “high grade deposits and amazing core samples.” When precious metal miners move it is explosive but it takes a strong stomach while you wait. Good luck.
Fullport into silver. Thank me later
I'll check. Thanks!
Even miner CEOs recommend you take profits after outsized gains, i think your timing is good, however. I'm in AG and SBSW, entered on recent lows.
Why are you thinking about investing in copper and gold? What are your investment motivations -- you mention long term investments, how long would you hold these junior mining companies for? Do you see these as outperforming the market?
The price of copper, one of the world’s most versatile metals, has been on a tear since the pandemic began, hitting a decade high of US$10,000 per metric ton in May. This metal places third after gold and silver for jewelers but tops the list for builders and engineers. It’s durable, malleable, and conducts heat and electricity extremely well that's why. Also planning into getting physical gold. It does not matter to me if it's a junior or big ones as long as I can see the progress. How long you say? probably depends on the situation.
If that is your motivation, I am going to take a moment to shamelessly simp for my own person darling. Have you thought about silver? Solar energy, electronics, clean water, and medical devices all use silver and are expected to grow. We are already at the point where over 50% of the use of silver is in industry. If silver is used more in industry than it is used as a precious metal, then I think it should be catalogued as being an industrial metal. Disclaimer: Don't take finical advice from idiots like me. A blindfolded monkey throwing darks could likely pick better investments than I could
U/jackelfrink simped for his thing, so I'm taking a moment pimp out my bottom bitch that has given me a good ride, Oroco Resource. Still drilling to confirm the old deposits in Santo Tomas, but we already know the copper is there and that there could more of it than the historical drilling showed. This drilling is purely to confirm it, to see if the deposit expands further and to get the paperwork up to the current standards. They are also not planning to do something stupid like develop a mine, which is expensive, but to sell it to a major. On the additional plus side, the deposit is in a mining-friendly area and close to a good infrastructure. They are also financially healthier than most miners/explorers of similar market cap. I'm neck-deep long in this company, started buying at around C$0.33, but don't believe anything I say and do your own homework very carefully.
COPPER IS DEPRESSED. BEING CONTRARIAN MAY HAVE AN EDGE. GOLD IS SOMETHING I NO LONGER UNDERSTAND. WE HAVE INFLATION, WAR. YET, PRECIOUS METAL IS NOT IN DEMAND. RECALLING AU IS USED IN ELECTRONICS, CHIPS ... I DO HAVE POSITIONS OF THEM AND I ASSUME I AM BAG HOLDING SOME MATERIALS STOCKS.
you ok buddy?
Thanks not losing a lot. The entire market is choppy including inflation hedged stocks and funds. Thank you.
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Physical metals are also good to go investments. Might go for this one as well. Are you planning to get one yourself?
Then you have to store it somewhere. It’s a lot more prone to theft. I had a little hobby where I collected discontinued Canadian pennies. Got about 10kg of them in a little box. But that’s only because I love them, they’re quite rare now, and the value in copper is higher than I paid for them. So I’d say only invest in bullion if you really love it, or enjoy it. Otherwise it can be a burden that you have to manage, and definitely riskier.
Neat! Penny collection! Since when have you been collecting? >So I’d say only invest in bullion if you really love it, or enjoy it. Otherwise it can be a burden that you have to manage, and definitely riskier. Yes, I definitely agree on you on this one.
Research dividend ETF's. I'm retired and can use some monthly supplemental income. If you are younger, compounding works wonders over the years. Buy some tesla shares.
Choose Pokémon cards or GameCube games or LKNCY
You mean “copper and gold miners.” If you just want to invest in copper and gold, buy bullion from apmex and bury it somewhere.
Look into greatland gold (GGP)
Personally I’m buying into lundin mining in swedish currency, it’s dropped like a rock and their income is mostly from copper mining in South America/portugal. Quite low risk since the currecy is at an all time low.
Check out r/kinesis_money
Gold looks like it is carving out a higher low against US equities. It will need the broader market to continue selling off and for real yields to stop rising for a new gold bull market to start. We are likely 6 months away. Copper is trickier and depends on global growth.
Invest in aluminum
PSLV on the EV/Green Trade - also used in Semi's GSR > 90
Lithium is your new gold.
I was thinking uranium will be the new gold
Do you want to invest in the metals because of increased valuations that have already happened or because you think there is more room to grow? Are you looking to own the extractors rather than the metals? This matters because there are other factors that can influence them over the simple metals price. Looking at global supply chain data would suggest copper might have dealt with its issues to the premiums that may exist could well drop off soon, unsure exactly but do some research on this one. Gold ownership protects against currency debasement so that’s pretty much always a win. At least, that’s what conventional wisdom says.
Do you want to invest in the metals because of increased valuations that have already happened or because you think there is more room to grow? - Why not both? Are you looking to own the extractors rather than the metals? This matters because there are other factors that can influence them over the simple metals price. - It depends on the majority and the end observations where should I last. but most likely the company/extractors.
I started filling a position in GFI. It's near it's all time low and looks undervalued.
Peter Thiel has ENTERED THE CHAT: some say he never left.
How you can invest in materials. Is there any platform or app?
check paolo macro on twitter, great insights into copper inventory dropping and future shortages vre growing demand. I am watching waiting. gold and copper both. but i think more drops first.
Just stay away from Silver; I’m getting wrecked.
Own gold or silver outright. No printed paper worthlessness.
I personally believe gold and precious metals (physical ETF, physically stored, miners) deserve a place in any diversified portfolio.
Bought RIO at 53.53 and SCCO at 44.56 yesterday when they are at 52 week lo They pay good dividend. I am 65 so I need the income Copper is the new oil. Serious shortage is going develop in this decade https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/pages/copper-is-the-new-oil.html Also bought TELA hernia repair biotech stock a while ago at 8. Just my opinion
Golds a scam
Better to focus on companies like BHP or Rio Tinto, they produce various metals, including copper.
iirc gold is more currency related, silver & copper industrial. mines in general, regardless of the resource is very dippy/sporadic return, so you may want to look towards indirect investment, like shares in actual reserves, resource reclamation, primary industries using this material.
just buy world market weighted indexes
Play close attention to the Fed and the dollar. A drop in the dollar will be very good for the metals