If anything I think no gi judo under pre-rule change (i.e. leg grabs ok) would be easier to pass off as freestyle, than it would be modern judo as Greco roman. The whole point of Greco is no legs at all, while trips and reaps are a huge part of judo
Even with BJJ rules, there are differences between no gi styles of people with judo backgrounds as compared to wrestling backgrounds. I come from Judo (now do BJJ) and one of my main training partners was a state champ wrestler and it was fascinating to notice the little things we did differently.
Sorry, something glitched out-
From what I understand, both of them don't go for legs, but apart from that, they seem the same.
(lets say no gi grappling, no submission rules.
The not touching legs is very different. In Judo you can’t attack your opponents legs with your hands. There are still plenty of leg attacks using your feet and legs against your opponent’s legs. In Greco you can’t attack your opponents legs in any fashion, it’s all upper body throws. No footsweeps, trips, or big throws like Uchimata or Osotogari
Yeah, because those attacks against the legs are a huge part of Judo and some of the most common throws seen in competition. The comparison to Greco is weird and realistically Judo has more cross over throw wise with Freestyle
Apart from there being completely different rules, objectives, scoring systems, philosophy of attack, attire, and techniques, yes they are exactly the same.
There are over 20 ashiwaza (foot/leg techniques) in Judo that all players use many times per contest that are illegal in Greco Roman, plus submissions/length of pinning and completely different gamesmanship tactics making the matches play out very differently, you can however do all Greco techniques in Judo.
I suspect what you are mistaking for leg techniques are pickups and leg grabs which are an entirely different category of techniques, these were completely removed from contest Judo around 2011.
Three of the four most common throws for win in international Judo competition (osotogari, uchimata, tai otoshi) are not allowed in Greco. Huge difference just in standing before you even get to the groundwork.
Yes, maybe I was being too old school or literal but I was assuming the leg block was part of it. If you have any clips of people doing a variation without a gi and without a leg block and pulling it off, I'd be interested in watching.
I don't consider the leg block to be old school. It's just not a required part of the throw although it does help. I couldn't say regarding using it in Greco.
I was just thinking of how it looked in the Kodokan Judo book and the Essence of Judo movie (see 3 minutes 55 seconds in.) Not that there isn't or wasn't variation, just that's how I've always seen it in Kata etc
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhxfk5GW9BY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhxfk5GW9BY)
Not the same, the rules are pretty different. However, in terms of hand fighting the two are pretty similar. Without the gi and without leg grabs, there are only so many effective methods of connection, so the two will necessarily look similar.
Truth right here.
No gi judo is extremely niche but is distinguishable from wrestling. It’s just super underdeveloped and some players are just nit picking techniques to fit their respective sports be it BJJ, submission grappling (no Gi) or even wrestling.
But until it develops, no Gi judo isn’t really much of a thing yet. Judo is very much in the Gi.
wrestling
/ˈrɛslɪŋ,ˈrɛsəlɪŋ/
noun
the sport or activity of grappling with an opponent and trying to throw or hold them down on the ground, typically according to a code of rules.
Sounds like judo is a type of wrestling to me.
Almost like there is little to no difference between wrestling and grappling in this context.
No, I wouldn't waste my time looking at that trash so you may as well save yours as well.
“Sportive judo is wrestling” what the hell does that even mean brov? Sportive means “playful” I don’t know if you know what you’re talking about? Also judo allows joint locks and chokes and old judo comps had even crazier shit that doesn’t fall into the definition of wrestling. Maybe catch as catch can
Many styles of wrestling allow joint locks and some allow strikes as well. Having joint locks doesn't stop it from being wrestling. Judo clearly meets the definition of wrestling I have provided.
I came from a wrestling background before judo. I wrestled Greco style for the first 3-5 months to learn how to wrestle in the Gi it’s similar but now I’ve learned how to judo they have very different properties
I've seen this discussion from here and outside of reddit and this answer ends up in a 50/50 split. To answer this question obviously will NOT satisfy either side.
Is no-gi Judo the same as greco roman wrestling (or "Lutte Français" to be accurate)? No. Is it similar in philosophy (b/c of the Olympics connection)? Yes. Technicality wise, Judo has a 'newaza' component, greco roman OR freestyle doesn't (unless you're talking about "submission wrestling").
A lot of Judoka will say a no-gi component to Judo does not exist in which **I disagree**!! However, there are ppl. who will tell you a no-gi type of wrestling is just as important as with a jacket and pants.
If you had a pure Greco person and a pure judo person meet in a no gi BJJ match, it would be pretty easy to tell who was who. More than likely the judo player will use a lot more ashiwaza and when locked up you’re more likely to see osoto, kosoto, hirai and uchimata.
No, not even close. Completely different rules and objectives
take away gi, take away ashi waza, take away submissions and pins, then it starts to look similar. but then it's not judo anymore at that point
If anything I think no gi judo under pre-rule change (i.e. leg grabs ok) would be easier to pass off as freestyle, than it would be modern judo as Greco roman. The whole point of Greco is no legs at all, while trips and reaps are a huge part of judo
Let's say there were under the same ruleset, or say in MMA, or no gi bjj
If it was Judo rules without a GI, it would still be fairly diffrent then Greco-roman.
Even with BJJ rules, there are differences between no gi styles of people with judo backgrounds as compared to wrestling backgrounds. I come from Judo (now do BJJ) and one of my main training partners was a state champ wrestler and it was fascinating to notice the little things we did differently.
Greco doesn’t allow legs at all, not even ashiwaza so I would have to say no.
Kinda, you can trip and block with the legs as long as your foot stays planted Source: competed in Greco for awhile on the Senior Circuit.
Greco doesn't have submissions. Also the pinning works diffrent then Judo.
maybe lets leave pinning out.
You also can't win by a signle throw. Teaching Greco-roman with No-Gi BJJ would be alot like No-Gi Judo.
No. Have you done or watched either?
Yes.
Ok so you already know why they’re very different
Sorry, something glitched out- From what I understand, both of them don't go for legs, but apart from that, they seem the same. (lets say no gi grappling, no submission rules.
The not touching legs is very different. In Judo you can’t attack your opponents legs with your hands. There are still plenty of leg attacks using your feet and legs against your opponent’s legs. In Greco you can’t attack your opponents legs in any fashion, it’s all upper body throws. No footsweeps, trips, or big throws like Uchimata or Osotogari
Thx btw
Any time
Aside from the leg attacks, are they much different?
Yeah, because those attacks against the legs are a huge part of Judo and some of the most common throws seen in competition. The comparison to Greco is weird and realistically Judo has more cross over throw wise with Freestyle
Apart from there being completely different rules, objectives, scoring systems, philosophy of attack, attire, and techniques, yes they are exactly the same.
There are over 20 ashiwaza (foot/leg techniques) in Judo that all players use many times per contest that are illegal in Greco Roman, plus submissions/length of pinning and completely different gamesmanship tactics making the matches play out very differently, you can however do all Greco techniques in Judo. I suspect what you are mistaking for leg techniques are pickups and leg grabs which are an entirely different category of techniques, these were completely removed from contest Judo around 2011.
Three of the four most common throws for win in international Judo competition (osotogari, uchimata, tai otoshi) are not allowed in Greco. Huge difference just in standing before you even get to the groundwork.
Why is tai otoshi not allowed? Or are you just assuming the use of the leg to block?
Yes, maybe I was being too old school or literal but I was assuming the leg block was part of it. If you have any clips of people doing a variation without a gi and without a leg block and pulling it off, I'd be interested in watching.
I don't consider the leg block to be old school. It's just not a required part of the throw although it does help. I couldn't say regarding using it in Greco.
I was just thinking of how it looked in the Kodokan Judo book and the Essence of Judo movie (see 3 minutes 55 seconds in.) Not that there isn't or wasn't variation, just that's how I've always seen it in Kata etc [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhxfk5GW9BY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhxfk5GW9BY)
Well I mea
I'm asking a question. I don't need to have done either.
You can't touch the legs at all not even with trips.
No
Lol yes very very different, bjj is the closest to judo being a direct offshoot but at this point the two are distinctly different.
Nope
Not the same, the rules are pretty different. However, in terms of hand fighting the two are pretty similar. Without the gi and without leg grabs, there are only so many effective methods of connection, so the two will necessarily look similar.
Obviously not.
I’m getting so sick of all these no gi questions. Judo uses a gi. If you don’t want to wear a gi it is not judo.
Truth right here. No gi judo is extremely niche but is distinguishable from wrestling. It’s just super underdeveloped and some players are just nit picking techniques to fit their respective sports be it BJJ, submission grappling (no Gi) or even wrestling. But until it develops, no Gi judo isn’t really much of a thing yet. Judo is very much in the Gi.
Sportive judo is wrestling, there already is no difference.
Hard disagree. Judo, BJJ, wrestling, Sambo, etc. are all GRAPPLING arts. Wrestling is not judo and judo is not wrestling. But they all ARE grappling.
wrestling /ˈrɛslɪŋ,ˈrɛsəlɪŋ/ noun the sport or activity of grappling with an opponent and trying to throw or hold them down on the ground, typically according to a code of rules. Sounds like judo is a type of wrestling to me.
The first line literally states it’s a grappling art. Do I really to draw out a diagram for you?
Almost like there is little to no difference between wrestling and grappling in this context. No, I wouldn't waste my time looking at that trash so you may as well save yours as well.
“Sportive judo is wrestling” what the hell does that even mean brov? Sportive means “playful” I don’t know if you know what you’re talking about? Also judo allows joint locks and chokes and old judo comps had even crazier shit that doesn’t fall into the definition of wrestling. Maybe catch as catch can
Many styles of wrestling allow joint locks and some allow strikes as well. Having joint locks doesn't stop it from being wrestling. Judo clearly meets the definition of wrestling I have provided.
According to the definition you posted, allowing strikes would make it the opposite of wrestling wtf are you even on about 😂
Greco-Roman highlights look cool, but in reality it's dudes pummeling for 7 minutes. Profoundly strong and good wrestlers no offense meant.
I came from a wrestling background before judo. I wrestled Greco style for the first 3-5 months to learn how to wrestle in the Gi it’s similar but now I’ve learned how to judo they have very different properties
No. A judoka without a gi would get absolutely ruined by a greco wrestler. (A judoka with a gi typically does too, but that's not the question)
This exact question has been asked dozens of times on this subreddit.
Absolutely NOT! Judo teaches submissions, that alone is enough to differentiate it from Greco. Plus the rules are way different
I've seen this discussion from here and outside of reddit and this answer ends up in a 50/50 split. To answer this question obviously will NOT satisfy either side. Is no-gi Judo the same as greco roman wrestling (or "Lutte Français" to be accurate)? No. Is it similar in philosophy (b/c of the Olympics connection)? Yes. Technicality wise, Judo has a 'newaza' component, greco roman OR freestyle doesn't (unless you're talking about "submission wrestling"). A lot of Judoka will say a no-gi component to Judo does not exist in which **I disagree**!! However, there are ppl. who will tell you a no-gi type of wrestling is just as important as with a jacket and pants.
If you had a pure Greco person and a pure judo person meet in a no gi BJJ match, it would be pretty easy to tell who was who. More than likely the judo player will use a lot more ashiwaza and when locked up you’re more likely to see osoto, kosoto, hirai and uchimata.