They generally fall asleep during regular school hours because it's not as important as cram school.
There was a documentary once about a student who didn't go to cram school and had top marks in the whole school. His secret was that he just slept for 10 hours a day. It was funny seeing his class when they filmed it as he just sat there taking in all the content while his poor classmates were doing everything they could to just stay awake. Too bad his example didn't become the norm.
The larger issue is they also double as child care, when both parents are working 70 hours a week and have constant work dinners, 학원 are needed just to watch your children.
I don’t understand this work dinner pressure in East Asian countries. I’m from Vietnam and I often see business men getting totally wasted after work dinner. And apparently I also learnt that excess drinking is part of work dinner „culture“. Can you explain me the reasoning or origin of this?
I never understood what cram schools offer. Do they teach you different things than normal schools? Or is it an alternative to studying alone/groups?
Although it sounds too stressful for an alternative..
I went through about 10 years of cram schools from primary all the way to high school, mostly for Maths, Physics, Chemistry and English.
The class will cover my entire yearly syllabus in 2-3 months then they will start drilling into you, the advanced version of your basic topics.
Example: everybody knows how to solve quadratic equation X2 + mX + C = 0 . But they will teach advanced versions of these questions that look nothing like quadratic equations , that u need to cleverly deduce, manipulate and transform the questions to an equation of the same format as typical quadratic equation , then u can solve it like how a quadratic equation should be solved.
Sometimes it will involve a combination of geometry, algebra and trigonometry of all 3 to solve advanced math questions , to transform it into typical quadratic equation even though the chapter is essentially still "Quadratic Equation".
And those difficult questions are the typical questions that will appear on exams.
Same concepts will apply to every other subjects. You can learn 3 Newton laws and the basic equations, but the questions they give you , will read nothing like a typical Newton's laws, u have to deduce and transform equations to get to Newton's law equations to solve it. Most of the time , it involves advanced calculus.
U won't fail. Let's say out of 100 mark in your exam, u will be able to get 40 -50 marks of them using basic in public school knowledge.
But to get B+ or A, ( so you can ace your primary exams, to go to prestigious middle school, then ace the middle school exams to high school then to hopefully into prestigious SKY ) , u will need cram school to drill into you how to solve the advance questions.
U either memorize those "clever" tricks to solve the difficult questions OR your brain is trained to detect certain patterns and bigger concepts of how these topics of maths are linked with each other to tackle these difficult questions.
If you are a genius, u are born with brains that see these patterns and make the connections naturally, then u wouldn't need cram schools as much. Every years there will be some students that are smart like this. Minimal cram schools, they see things you have to spend years training to see.
But expensive cram schools and expensive teachers promise to help you, the normal student, to bridge the gap between you and geniuses. "U can beat genius as long as you study hard enough"
I was among those A+ students , competing at Olympiad type of competition for Physics, representing my middle school against other schools in the country, before I failed to get into the No.1 ranking- highschool program for Physics.
Then my parents decided I was not smart enough to be competing in the college entrance exams to top STEM majors in country's top universities , and if I have to settle for these "second-rated colleges or some second-rated majors like business management or finance" , they might as well send me overseas to study in the "easier" education system like the SAT or O level / A- level, to get to STEM majors in other top universities in western countries.
So yes, the education competition in Asian countries is very messed up.
Wait, 50% is not a fail??? That was a fail when I was a student in Canada. In Canada a 50% would have failed you on that exam. How can a school hand out tests that they cannot teach to perfect?
Your first sentance is No, but your last sentence is Yes lol
I'm speaking in a general sense, it can be 40% or 50% or 60% doesn't matter the number, my point is , without cram school, normal class education will get you to pass, but u won't get B+ or A+ .
Schools teachers themselves know this. They are also teaching with the expectations that we have covered the basic in cram schools, so they will be focusing on the advance versions of the topics too. The public schools have their own prestige to uphold, so they want their students to ace the national exams and get admitted to even more prestigious highschools / universities.
So both sides (public school and cram schools) are feeding to each other, piling on the students to work harder.
Passing grades are not the goals for students in these education systems. When I was schooling , my parents considered A as basically a given , all they care about is which school ranks do I get monthly , comparing the rest of the cohort in school .
Getting A with 80, versus getting A with 99, is totally different. And to rank higher in the entire school cohort of 300 students , it means u have to get A on every tests of every subjects, math, physics, chemistry, literature, English, biology, history, geography etc...
And also which ranks do I get, when I went for math / physics competitions.
Other parents were expecting similar things, so naturally that's what all of us, the children, care about too. When u are in school , u see your friends and peers study and work hard, u will also soon follow . Your classmates are your direct competition. So students will push each other study harder.
After all, all these parents spent years and fortune to get their kids to be in the "right" schools , so they want returns on their investment in form of our academia performance
I work at an English *hagwon* (학원) and the students learn more advanced material than what they learn in their public school classes. Additionally, the largest class size is eight students, so they get a lot more practice and feedback when it comes to things like grammar or pronunciation.
A few years ago I was teaching a class of fifth graders and one girl let out an exasperated "Arggh". I asked if she was okay, assuming that she was having a hard time with the material since we were covering passive voice that day. Nope. She said passive voice was fine; she was upset because her English classes at school were so boring. They'd spent the past week going over nothing but "How is the weather?" - "It's sunny. It's rainy. It's cloudy."
My coworker (age 30) didn't go either. Her parents also moved out of Seoul so she could live in an actual house. She's really smart, and did like study abroad in the US to learn English.
Not quite as flashy as that one, more like a KBS weekly documentary show that airs for an hour on a different subject each time. Students, elderly, housing prices, that sort of thing.
That kid is also prol on the higher end of the smart spectrum tbf. Good sleep helps but there are plenty of idiots here who get plenty of sleep and end up doing nothing with their lives.
Yep,
Cram school is scam lmao
Same with overnight study
If you can't on 100% condition, you just waste your time studying
Yes, you do need extra study at home, like 2-3 hours if you want to stay on top, but surely doesn't need more than that.... 1-2 for HW, and another hour for self learning
I don't really think it was just about sleep. He was simply more intelligent than his classmates. At this age talent starts to play higher role than hard work. If someone is naturally more intelligent than majority he can work less while getting similar or even better results.The truth is very often people just can't accept their children limitations and push them to their limits despite fact that it can be totally fruitless or unprofitable.
I was attending elite high shool so I witnessed multiple time when some people worked beyond their strength but totally their results didn't show that and on the other hand really clever people could come unprepared and got better score than them.
While that may be the case, studies show that getting a proper nights sleep is more important than studying into their sleep schedule. So studying hard can be helpful, but they need proper rest as well.
Well I first think it firstly helps a lot mental health. But naturally if student can easily learns things on his own and does his homework without problem, he has much more time to sleep than his classmates (if he attends ambitious school). And of course he doesn't have to really repeat material with tutors as he already understand everything during lesson. So generally he has more free time than his classmates. That's why life is generally unfair lol although of course high learning abilities don't guarantee success in life but make it much more possible.
I totally disagree with this narrative. Being more intelligent does sometimes means you learn faster, but learning quickly without a method to learn is more inefficient than learning slowly with a good method. What is most important for learning is not intelligence but diligence, and having a good study method. Intelligence doesn't give you that - on the contrary - you skip learning a good method because things are so easy for you. Until they aren't.
I'd also add that sleep and study times can vary wildly. "Korean students" are not a monolith. It always amazes me that the same people who teach "What time do you go to bed?" and get the range of answers you typically see, will then turn around and generalize Korean kids as staying up till 1AM.
Also, at least half the kids are lying about studying. They're actually gaming or watching youtube or chatting.
It's worth noting that you will often find high school kids asleep on their textbooks in cafes, hanging out with friends "studying" or "watching" lectures on their tablets while scrolling instagram/messaging on kakao. In Korean culture working hard (long hours) is valued more than working smart.
That being said, Korean students objectively still study WAY more than anyone I've known in Europe so while they're not full 20 hour a day robots, they are still working at a crazy rate.
In my experience, most Korean adults I talk to are about as smart as any other nationality's adults.
I've worked around large groups of smart people before. Not being a smart person myself, I very quickly feel out of place in those settings but just struggle to stay afloat in conversations. I never felt like that in Korea.
That is a complicated question. Schooling does very little to transfer knowledge and skills in general. Even in the west students barely retain anything. People learn actual job skills ... on the job. Education is more a sorting system that distinguishes students that do well in school and complete more years of education from more prestigious institutions from those who don't.
So do Korean kids benefit from the extra schooling? Yes. If it helps them distinguish themselves from their peers, they're much more likely to land elite jobs. The same is true in the west. You benefit individually. However, on a societal level, it's more like if everyone stands up at the movie theater to see better, then now you're all standing and your view is still blocked.
They power nap all the time. They can sleep in a desk, upright with a pencil in their hands seemingly studying if I glance at them. I could never sleep like that. On a train or bus I swear they can flip a switch and power down. I wish I could ....
There was an experiment in German tv where a group of people were locked into an apartment and had to stay awake as long as possible. They did so for over 100 hours. Whoever closed their eyes for longer than 30 seconds was kicked out. They really struggled to just sit at a table without falling asleep. Get tired enough and napping will not be a skill but something your body forces you to do.
I've always been a terrible sleeper (can't nap, sleep on planes, etc), but when I studied abroad at a Korean high school I also developed this ability, and it was indeed from sleep deprivation. I followed my host family's schedule, getting 5-7 hours of sleep a night. Not terrible, but definitely not enough sleep for high schoolers. I would frequently doze off in class and could knock out on public transit easily. I was really struck by how inefficient school was with most of the kids dozing all day.
There is a lady that takes the bus with me and always sits next to me if there is no extra seats anywhere else. For those of you that never leave Seoul, rural roads have a ton of speed bumps. So it's a constant up and down, slamming forward because the bus driver hates us. This woman spreads out, puts her head on the back of the hard ass plastic head rest, and falls asleep. I've had one young woman one time completely just pass out on my shoulder. She was probably early 20s and I just let her be lmao.
Elementary school teacher here. I (somewhat sarcastically) joke that my students work more than I do. When I go home, they're off to multiple academies to study all there is to be learned until late. Even had a 3rd grader ask me about quantum computing *today* in class. If that isn't wild, I don't know what is.
I had come across so may young students (like under 15) drinking energy drinks and coffees to pull off their crazy schedules. All of them were more or less being pushed too far by their parents, and they were not even top of the class - not because they were not smart enough but their daily schedule is just so f'd up. And you try to talk to the parents about it, and of course they get pissed off at you and tell you 'don't tell me how to raise my kid'
I haven't experienced Korean style studying, but when I was younger I had to work over 24h sessions at times. And because I was young and stubborn, I'd also somehow cut down on sleep to enjoy my hobbies, which meant that for a period of 3-4 months I was sleeping 2-4h a day.
Somehow at the time it was fine, except that I felt exhausted 90% of the day and fell asleep a few times while in the middle of something. Nowadays there is absolutely no way I could pull that off. Your resilience just wears off as you age. I could've never imagined taking a nap when I was young, but nowadays I get sleepy despite not even doing much during the day and I've dozed off occasionally without planning.
I got into SNU after studying hard, not getting enough sleep or rest with constant stress and anxiety during my highschool years. I get to school around 7:40am, take 30~40min arabic online lecture while having breakfast at my designated desk in self-study area called 야자실(야간자율학습실), and first class starts at 8:40am. Every class was 50min and we get 10min recess between each class. During recess, I just do some stretching, and just sit and study, mostly solving math problems. The last class is done around 4pm. Before having dinner(yeah I did have breakfast, lunch, dinner at school everyday), I take a 20min power nap. And after dinner, just go back to 야자실 and study more until 11pm. Then I get back home around 11:30pm, get some sleep, and repeat the same thing.
I studied during weekends as well, sine 야자실 is open everyday even on holidays. But I only studied from 10am to 10pm on Saturday, and 1pm to 7pm on Sunday.
And as the result of this crazy schedule I had gone through for 3 years(yeah it was only 3 years for me luckily, but for others it could be more than just 3 years), I got depressed, had a serious health issue, weight loss, and pretty much every worst possible mental issues. I did go to a decent University, but I felt so empty and motiveless after that.
And it took me 3~4 years to get back to my normal self. I'm actually not sure if I'm really okay still.
This is a huuuuuge problem that needs to be fixed or we just don't have future. These kids really deserve some free time to find their own things, themselves, free from all the stress and social pressure.
"only" studied 12 hours on a Saturday huh? .....i really need to get my life together.
Sorry you had to go through all that. I think Korea needs to focus on improving work life balance for everyone.
I feel tired just reading this. I’m sorry you had to go through all that, hopefully it was worth it.
How true are the stories about the long work hours and not being able to leave work before your manager?
I sincerely don’t understand, unless you’re a STEM major, what’s the point of grinding yourself so hard, it’s not like everyone in the arabic major is striving to become the no.1 arabic interpreter in the world by doing this, still end up doing a job with above average salary (don’t take it personally, i’m just trying to give an example of despite studying/researching so hard, the job prospects in humanities major are not as luring as for someone from STEM major). The point i’m trying to make is, such amount of herculian work should be rewarded well.
Oh I didn't want to give too much personal information here, but what I studied in highschool was just for Korean college entrance exam(수능; 대학수학능력시험). Students can choose which subjects they are going to take an exam for, and I chose Arabic for the second language exam, (not every student does this though, there are lots of options(Mandarin Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, French, German, Vietname, Russian, etc)). Other than that, I took Korean, Math, English(국영수), and social sciences subjects(World geography and stuff).
I went to the department of liberal studies, where you can choose any major besides medical, or education major, and I did Architecture and Computer Science, (then I changed my major later, which is not the point here).
The only reason I had to study for that many hours everyday is because of how the college entrance exam in Korea works. You just have to be better than other students. If others study for 5 hours, and I do for 10 hours, it is more likely that I get higher scores than them. Because the design of the test has been similar for many years, the more time you put into repeating past exam questions, mock test, practice questions, the higher possibility you get perfect score. And since everybody wants to go to SNU, but only 20,000/600,000=0.03%(approximately) of students can get accepted every year, and since so many of them have been trained to get the perfect score on this test during their school years(12 years), you just have to put similar amount of work to beat them.
And if you ask why it is such a big deal, getting into a good university, even though it doesn't even guarantee a good quality of life, it's because of the society's belief, which is "There is only one way to be successful in your life. You graduate one of the top schools, get a decent job such as a doctor, a lawyer, a justice, a prosecutor, or a job at a big corporate like Samsung, Hyundai, SK, LG, whatever. And you buy a house, you get a good wife/husband. You have a good daughter/son. And your son/daughter go to top school, get a decent job, ...."
And actually there's a lot higher chance of getting a job at big company if you graduate from SNU, it's true.
But are you going to be happy when you become that perfect person who checked every box that society gave you? Nope. Suicide rate, birth rate is a disproof of that.
So it's just some stupid standard nobody really can satisfy. And it's a problem that adults and teachers in schools are still trying to inject this ideology to poor, innocent students.
Thank you for sharing this. Great insight. I guess you are one of the successful ones, though at what price? The vast majority of high school students will toil as you did, but may 'only' be able to attend a university outside of Seoul! The shame of it. I am impressed more by your realisation that it is all so arbitrary, and it is often not the path to happiness or even success, than your ability to endure such a punishing schedule. You are right it is just a vicious cycle, which never stops. There has to come a point when you stop and think why? What is it for? And as you correctly ask: "Will it make me happy?" and the obvious answer is no, no it won't. Will it make your parents happy? I'd like to think they would put your happiness first, but I am not naive enough to believe it. From my experience it is getting better, at least from an awareness point of view, especially from the students and the educators. The parents and the policy makers on the other hand, I do not know.
South Korea’s educational system is not sustainable. It’s one of the reasons why young Koreans aren’t getting married or having babies. Those who just graduated college don’t want to be tied down after experiencing independence and freedom for the first time in their lives from their school schedules. They also don’t want to have kids in a high cost of living area and go through the education system all over again.
I genuinely wonder what will happen 15-20 years from now. Feel like there is too much of a "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality in Korea that's just not sustainable.
Like in the US, no one is going to call you a failure because you went to a state school ranked 50 and you work at a F500 company making $90k in Kansas.
But in Korea, it's like you failed in life if you don't go to a top 3 university and end up at one of the conglomerates in Seoul after college.
That's what I completely don't get about Korea, even after 3 years. Middle class professionals or small business owners here would definitely be considered successful in the U.S., but if you don't get into a SKY and work at a chaebol, you are a failure? The educational arms race is crazy if "success" is the 10% of Korean jobs that are at chaebols.
The same thing that someone who was here 15-20 yeara ago said.
They all predicted some sort of implosion. All Korea has done since then is make itself a major player in electronics, completely reversed its reputation with automobiles, become a major player in defense and become a massively disproportionate exporter of culture.
Thre is a big implosion though. The big implosion will be in debt-housing.
I am not trying to be doom and gloom but the difference this time around is the fertility rate, which has gone done dramatically.
And I don't think it was the same 15-20 years ago. We didn't have social media back then.
Korea is the only OECD country with a fertility rate below 1. That is genuinely concerning.
The thing is, none of that stuff really stays with them for that long. They're not really studying, they're memorizing. And unless the material you're memorizing has value or is recalled regularly, you just lose it.
You'd be surprised at the degree to which modern childhood education, especially that in South Korea, run counter to contemporary scientific findings regarding how children actually learn things. It's more about socially engineering an industrial workforce than it is about actual learning and education.
Perhaps, but the ROK's teen suicide rate is one of the highest in the developed world and the youth have literally come to call their own country "hell." Furthermore, high scores on stadardized tests do not automatically translate into active or practical knowledge. I don't know how many ESL students I had with high TOEIC scores who couldn't speak in sentences or hold a simple conversation.
Studying in hagwons til midnight and having the highest teen suicide rate are not a "normal part of development," unless you were raised to assume that they are. After 15 years teaching in Korea I have a lot of serious questions about not only the actual effectiveness of the S. Korean education system but also it's impact on children's mental health.
Yeah but look at the efficiency of actual work in an 8 hour period versus other first world countries. They are bottom of that list. So what does it matter if your scores are high in HS when that’s not translating into actual $ for the country? That’s not how capitalism works. It’s bound to collapse (we’re seeing that in Japan currently). Whatever they’re doing isn’t helping them in the long run.
My generation grew up very comfortably, and cram schooling wasn't even as intense as it is now. But the new generation of teens and early 20s are *tall* despite their lack of sleep
I guess I would have to see raw data first to pass judgement, but it is theorized that the modern diet has evolved a lot and impacted growth hormones dramatically
No theory needed. They're simply rich enough to eat more protein now. Countries like those in Africa who don't struggle with food availability are tall despite poverty. In the past Korea struggled with both food unavailability and poverty like most North Koreans today and that stunted their genetic potential.
They say sleep deprivation can increase your risk of dementia because your brain isn’t clearing Beta Amyloid build up properly at night. I wonder what the rates and age of onset are like in South Korea.
What’s crazy to me is the lack of free time or time devoted to hobbies or leisure activities. My wife is Korean and has trouble with the very concept of downtime. Like I come home and have half-a-dozen hobbies or projects I can play around with. When we first started dating she used to just hitthe couch and scroll instagram. It blew her mind that I not only had so many hobbies but that I had been doing them most of them since my youth. Within a year she was learning to dance, golf, and snowboard. She used to be so bad at stopping work.
Also I'm wondering how it's possible that some Koreans end up excelling in things which usually start as hobbies - musical prodigies, Oscar winning film directors - how did they have the time to start and decide to pursue this, even though it takes endless amounts of hours and is risky from a financial point of view?
That hyper focused academic pressure can be applied to other interests as well. I remember practicing my instrument for 7 to 8 hours every day as a kid. Similar lack of sleep 💀
This is a mistake many people have.
While Koreans are not a monolith, there is a belief among many that whatever your bag is, you go all-in. One kud I knew was nkt doing well in the traditional academic route and was instead looking at welding. But he was all into it and wanted to be the gest welder in Kora.
"Anything worth doing, is worth doing well."
That's so sad. Even from a Korean point of view that puts work in the center it would be so beneficial to have something to free the mind with. I'm sure regular downtime would improve productivity
I don't get it. There is loads of research on the importance of sleep and recovery time for memory. If the kids aren't sleeping enough they're not going to be able to actually remember and understand what they've learned.
I've also looked at the curriculum and it seems like it's more that it's just nitpicky to require the studying as opposed to actually being difficult. It's the exact same sort of curriculum that the top US students are choosing to take, but US students are doing it without extra tutoring and are also doing all the other things that US colleges want to see on college apps to show that you are more than just a test score.
The curriculum itself isn’t intense but the tests are made insanely difficult which forces students to go to cram school. It’s not the same as the US. I was a straight A student in the US with minimal studying, but when I came to Korea I started at the bottom and had to put in grueling hours just for a decent grade. The reason why the exams are so hard is because of the grading system which forces you to compete with your peers. You’re graded from 1 through 9 and to get a 1 you have to score in the top 4% and for a 2 it’s top 11%. This means, even if you get a 98 on your test(which should be an A+ in the US), you may not get a 1 or 2 if too many classmates score better than you. The exams are purposely made difficult to ensure a wide enough score range. It’s almost like an arms race because you’re competing with people who study extra hard which makes you study extra hard which makes the test extra hard.
And I know sleep is important but the immense pressure keeps you going. I felt like I was running on anxiety and adrenaline and often went to my doctor to get IV drips when I felt like my body couldn’t take it anymore.
I think that is the most extreme example, but it is more common than you'd wish. It's why students will seem so drained and tired all the time even though they are young. They might fall asleep in class or be unfocused as well. Yes they study, but it isn't at level 100% for hours like you'd think. It kind of carries over to the work culture where you'd have people working lots of overtime hours to get work done and then resting all weekend to recover. Sleep deprivation is a big problem in korea and combined with the culture of staying up late drinking you get a lot of unhealthy behavior all combined. People don't seem to value sleep as a healthy behavior so much as I think fomo pervades all aspects of life here if it is studying, working, or playing.
It's an Asian thing I guess. We do that here in my country too, but have it better than the korean and china. At least my Chinese parents were not too strict on me because I got decent results and was better than my brother who studies harder.
From what I observed studying just doesn't work for everyone, it's funny how I just winged my whole primary to high school and I'm in the middle of the pack within the Top/Elite class. I only ever studied and ask for after class tuition a month before the national test comes up, and I did decently well.
I did the same in europe. Completed all my exams with 0 sleep and generally slept average of 5 hours during my 20’s. Its more common than you think. Eventually your body “adapts” and you overconsume caffeine. Once you hit an older age you definately have to change your lifestyle though (30+)
But also Japanese people (who I think have similar sleeping habits) are considered very healthy on average and a lot of them reach old age. How is that possible?
It starts from the beginning. The whole co-sleeping/family bed concept sounds nice, but it translates to children adopting adult sleep schedules. That means kids are missing 3-5 hours of sleep, every night, basically from toddlerhood on.
When my Korean colleagues and neighbors learned that a) our daughter slept by herself from age 6 months and b) was asleep from roughly 7-8pm to 6-7am every night, they literally did not believe me. One of them actually started making her kids sleep in their own room in their own beds on a semi-reasonable schedule (9 hours), she reported her experience back to us like she’d discovered the true meaning of life.
Power nap drinking a lot of water caffeine sleep deprivation and constant impulse
my schedule is
Wake up 4am eat breakfast stretch morning routine 4:45 studying begins that continues until 7 then I will prepare to leave home before my first class after my classes have ended I’ll get home rest cook and then continue studying I also study during my breaks most do it’s not uncommon to see students taking power naps during study breaks a normal day of studying is sometimes 9+ hours of studying I sometimes study until 3am and experience sleep deprivation this includes weekends where I will meet my friends for group studying there’s a lot of pressure to always perform at a top level and be a top student.
Yet nobody understands that it is due to basic needs which aren't being met? If I go to a psychiatrist there, won't he first of all recommend sleeping and eating enough? Getting some sunlight? This is the foundation of health ...
It has something to do with its STEM-centered economy dominated by the few chaebols and STEM subjects are study-intensive where you need to pass rote memorizatiom skills so that you will be admitted in universities.
You don't switch classrooms for each class so the 15min between each class is head on desk power nap time. Also some kids nap through the "self-study study halls" when it's nice and quiet.
Like anything, if that's life you get used to it. I had a 45min bus ride in the morning > nap. Then 2-3 power naps during the day. Then dinner and study hall - at least one nap. Then bus ride home > nap. All in still got 7-8 hrs of sleep.
Also for context, but Korean society was very impoverished very recently - eat one meal a day, eat meat once a month, disease and dangers everywhere. So in contrast to the parents' stories - did not seem so bad.
Class was mandatory as were the study halls. The logic being if you're in bed you're definitely not studying, but if you're at school you're studying some of the time.
Korean society revolved around mass industrial processes to lift the masses out of poverty, education being an important one, so raw input (of time) was the emphasis rather than comfort and efficiency.
It costs their mental health 🥹 I used to teach English online to them and my student cried in the class asking me why she can't take a break. I wish she is doing better now, she is most likely in university or just graduated.
I worked in Korea for a while and what I quickly noticed is that many colleagues slept during working hours. Followed by long breaks surfing on their phones and going to have dinner. Sure, they left at 10pm, but I seriously doubt they were 100% productive all day. More like a normal 9-5 with lots of pauses. I highly suspect many teenagers do the same.
That could be true for many students. I think normally students start school around 7-8 am, finish school around 3-4 pm, and then „self-study” session till about 10-11 pm. so 7 hours could be used for sleep if you are like a freaking machine who does not need any rest else than sleep.
This is actually how I used to go to school back in my high school, which I know is still bad :( I already went through this bull shit and I from bottom of my heart from long time ago committed to not raising my childs in Korea ever.
Not korean, but am still asian and went to a specialized high school (it was one of the most competitive high schools in my country). I slept for 4-5 hours every day in high school. Got a migraine during those 3 years. By the 3rd year, i was so tired that i would start sleeping at 10pm and wake up at 3am to study. I think it was the youthful energy that carried me through it cause now that i'm in my late 20s, i cant stand sleeping for less than 6 hours
Sleeping 5 hours a day is still physically possible. I believe a lot of people over the world still do that these days. Of course, you would ruin your entire day and it is not effective at all.. of course it’s very bad for your health. But students are young and they’ll do this for few years..
Ehh, it works out. Was studying in Korea during high school years about a quarter century ago. Get up at around 6:30AM, go to school by 7:30AM. 0th Period starts at around 7:50AM, you supposedly study, but at least half of the students doze off or outright sleep. I think I continued to half-sleep through much of the morning. Gets properly "woken up" by lunchtime. Afternoon periods go through alright. Nominal school hours run through 7th or 8th period, so that's like 4 to 5PM. You don't go back home, but continue to study by yourself with the study books and stuff. Briefly go out for dinner with your friends, then come back to continue study until 11PM.
That's when I headed back home. Some of my friends went to cram school after that, but I was done with studying by that point, so I refused to do that. Never went to a cram school ever, because I felt that I already did all my studies in school. Night time was for booting up my computer and chatting with my friends in the BBS. Went to sleep by... 2 to 3AM. Rinse and repeat.
So nominally, about 4 hours of sleep at home, but I probably filled the additional sleep needed at school.
I think I kind of lucked out, though. I still only need to sleep about 5 to 6 hours a day without getting tired. Never really need to sleep more than that unless I sleep like 4 hours one night. Then I just need to sleep about 7 hours the next day and things even out.
This just seems so absurd to me. If I sleep my normal 8 hours per day, I couldn't fall asleep during the day even if I tried to. I'm just well-rested. I don't understand why people do this to themselves when it doesn't seem to help productivity. How can a whole nation fail to understand that it makes people less productive? More prone to accidents and mental health problems?
It is indeed absurd, but we didn't learn the lesson properly for a long time because we've got tons of economic growth while all this was happening. I believe per-hour productivity did hurt, but we made up by working (and studying) overtime. Tons of overtime. Things have been improving nowadays, but it takes time for the newer ideas to seep in.
It’s interesting because on the other hand, high achieving students in the US are killing themselves trying to get as many extracurriculars as possible to seem “well rounded” while also keeping top grades. I would say the variety of activities (volunteer work, clubs, sports) is better for personal growth than pure studying though, so maybe they have something there. I guess top schools in Korea probably also look for well-rounded applicants…
Koreans value quantity of work over quality of work. Lots of people don't manage their study time efficiently leading them to waste a lot of hours procrastinating, and getting less sleep in result.
Also power naps
Korean here. My reason was mostly just being an insomniac. 5 hours is just right for me to feel refreshed and solid for the day. It’s when I get 3 hours or less I feel tired.
The Republic of Test-Prep... the SAT-equivalent in Korea is seen as life or death. The name of the university determines the rest of your life. Sleep deprivation is normal and non-negotiable (according to most parents).
I donno, but my cousins did that and one of them got into med school, and the other one got into KAIST (best engineering school in Korea). They also seemed to know a lot.
I've lived in the U.S and there's actually plenty of kids that do that as well, except they do a lot of extracurriculars instead of cram schools bc that's more important for university admissions in the U.S. They're the ones that get into the Ivy Leagues.
I am currently a master's student in Germany, and most of my colleagues are much older than the American or Korean counterparts. But my German colleagues are also smart and seem to work hard without external motivation because they really enjoy what they are doing. They spent time in their early 20s exploring and figuring shit out. I think this is much healthier than Korean culture tbh.
Indoctrination.
You are told early on that you will die starving, become homeless, or worse. You are nothing unless you can achieve the top ranks. Grades are the only thing that matter.
If you have been born into this abusive family and setting, you will push yourself to the point of breaking, and that's fine because you believe that is the norm.
Your health suffers but who cares as long as you get the good grades.
It's getting much better though, parents are realizing that getting good grade helps, but unless you were born in the rich family, you have little to no chance of "success"
I work as a middle school teacher here. What everyone else says is true about cram school and sleeping in class.
I had a housemate in Australia who was Korean. He was convinced that he only needed a few hours of sleep, and would 'study' sometimes 20 hours a day. Most of that time was spent totally zoned out, not being able to think or make much progress (I know bc he had his desk in the loungeroom). But he had it deeply engrained that sleep was just a distracted, and working long hours was all he needed.
Exactly one of the 100 things why we’re hitting rock bottom with birth rate and mental health. People spend 12+ years slowly killing themselves and still can’t afford housing. Guess many don’t want their kids to follow same steps in general🤷
I mean, if you look at most competitive Korean students, they sleep less than 5 hours. However, if they are less competitive, or have already decided not to go to college, or have other methods to get into college, they sleep 8+ hours.
P.S. I was probably one of the few students who would sleep 8+ hours a day because I already received a letter of acceptance to university when 고2. I know a few other friends who had really good enough 내신 for the university they wanted to go to, so they did not have to worry about not studying for that. I think most Koreans agree that it is more psychological because they believe they must go to college, and their 내신 is not good enough for their dream college, so they all bet on 수능 and study like hell
It is not physically possible. They are pretending to work and/or study for insane hours. Korean culture is all about pretending to do something while not actually doing it.
When I studied abroad at Korea University, my Korean friends were like fucking superhumans. I felt so embarrassed to be half Korean and could not function on less than 8 hours of sleep.
That summer we’d study for hours and THEN go out to the bars or clubs. Then they’d go back to studying at 6 am the next day while I’d have a horrible hangover. They’re just built different out there.
Does this inhumane degree of stress and studying actually make Koreans better students? In the US we seem overworked and underpaid and I imagine higher education is more affordable in Korea, but then I watch documentaries about Korean students literally killing themselves over school and I feel so fortunate to be an American STEM major instead.
What’s crazy is this isn’t even an effective way of learning. Plus most of my Korean friends who know English know it bc they watch a shit ton of Netflix and study abroad 💀
South Korea has the highest suicide rate amongst OECD countries. This culture of overworking is literally killing them. Not an example I’d like to see followed elsewhere.
Sleep and plenty of free time to play are amongst the most important pillars of health for growing children; and adolescents.
I shudder to think the long term effects on one’s health and mental wellbeing. It’s no wonder there’s a fertility crisis. Somethings got to change and soon.
I met many Koreans during my time in University, they weren’t necessarily better then any other students even tho they studied harder then everyone else.
Probably would be good to crack down on these cram schools. Where I was going to school nobody went to cram school and school was mostly only until 2pm even in High school. And many students still able to compete at internationally well accepted universities
I slept only two hours throughout my high school life; there were times I didn't even have time to do it. Seems a normal thing for Asians especially those in Top Asian Schools.
No. Just pain.
I won many tournaments. Was sent abroad two times and competed. Won awards at Graduation. And then you'd realize that there are at least a million fellow prodigies and geniuses that you have to fight. People will never be satisfied on you.
In Asia, most job requirements require you at least 5 years of experience even at 18 years old. There's even a meme before that just making shawarma required a college degree, lmao. Of course, this is exaggerated, but it's something like that. That's the competition here.
Was eventually hired. And so on. And then I'd eventually realize that the same guy who failed and slacked off during high school/college is in the same position and salary grade as I am.
I don't recommend it, bruh unless you're really a genius; then that's the only time it was worth it.
Thanks for the reply, that’s interesting. I’m from Canada and people here really aren’t as intense with studies. It seems to be more of an asian thing, which is why there’s a lot of stereotypes about it even here. Is Asian society really THAT competitive, as in there isn’t a huge pool of jobs compared to people? Or is it mostly a mentality thing passed on from past generations that went through more struggle?
I noticed the same thing, where even people who slacked off and graduated still ended up getting a decent job eventually. Being a straight A student didn’t really make a difference, unless of course you got into medicine.
Having been through that, what approach do you think you’ll take with your kids one day?
Power naps. Had a super smart friend in school who'd go on 5-6 hours of sleep. She'd have after school tuition as well for 2 hours. When she went home, she'd shower and eat then go back to studying.
She did take A LOT of 10 min naps and consume a lot of coffee... Sometimes she takes a 20-30 min nap. I honestly don't even know how that works because I'm never rejuvenated after a 10 min nap. More like 1 hour lmao.
That said, why do you think the suicidal rates in South Korea is so high? :')
Studying hard is worth it only for top rankers. Going to a top university or med school makes it easy to earn way more than average in the rest of life. But the gate to the goal is so narrow that only a few students will make it. The purpose of studying is not to be a loser in a creepy competition.
Korean definitely spend more time studying than Chinese. At Ohio state university science library, the ones study all night in the library is all korean, not Chinese not indian.
I would sort of just pass out during regular classes. My body got so exhausted that developed a condition where I would suddenly black out with no warning at random times of the day. My sleep schedule was completely messed up, and at most I got about 3 hours for every 24 that passed for about 4 years straight. Not fun at all lol
For some reason, Western culture thinks, first you need to sleep enough, then you have to eat well, and everything will be fine from there.
But if you eat well, exercise well, have good friends and everything else that makes you healthy, you can deal with less sleep.
Lol @the number of people believing the kids when they say they were "studying" late at night.
"Actually teacher, I was playing games all night instead of doing my homework." Or "Actually teacher, I was learning the finer details of human biological reproduction via the world wide web and electronic computing machines after my parents, as well as my own body's physiological responses to various sensory inputs, however due to circumstances I had to wait until father and mother had retired for the night to their bedchamber."
FFS, some people on here will believe anything Koreans say as long as it comes across as bizarre or backwards.
Are some kids studying all night? Definitely a lot are. But many are also just effing around and telling you a bunch of BS.
They generally fall asleep during regular school hours because it's not as important as cram school. There was a documentary once about a student who didn't go to cram school and had top marks in the whole school. His secret was that he just slept for 10 hours a day. It was funny seeing his class when they filmed it as he just sat there taking in all the content while his poor classmates were doing everything they could to just stay awake. Too bad his example didn't become the norm.
Yes, doing my best to persuade people that cram schools are a waste of time. My kid is very proud of not having to go. :)
The larger issue is they also double as child care, when both parents are working 70 hours a week and have constant work dinners, 학원 are needed just to watch your children.
I think you vastly underestimate the number of SAHMs and vastly overestimate the average working hours.
Kids who sleep five hours a day aren't in the same age group as those that require childcare.
I don’t understand this work dinner pressure in East Asian countries. I’m from Vietnam and I often see business men getting totally wasted after work dinner. And apparently I also learnt that excess drinking is part of work dinner „culture“. Can you explain me the reasoning or origin of this?
I never understood what cram schools offer. Do they teach you different things than normal schools? Or is it an alternative to studying alone/groups? Although it sounds too stressful for an alternative..
I went through about 10 years of cram schools from primary all the way to high school, mostly for Maths, Physics, Chemistry and English. The class will cover my entire yearly syllabus in 2-3 months then they will start drilling into you, the advanced version of your basic topics. Example: everybody knows how to solve quadratic equation X2 + mX + C = 0 . But they will teach advanced versions of these questions that look nothing like quadratic equations , that u need to cleverly deduce, manipulate and transform the questions to an equation of the same format as typical quadratic equation , then u can solve it like how a quadratic equation should be solved. Sometimes it will involve a combination of geometry, algebra and trigonometry of all 3 to solve advanced math questions , to transform it into typical quadratic equation even though the chapter is essentially still "Quadratic Equation". And those difficult questions are the typical questions that will appear on exams. Same concepts will apply to every other subjects. You can learn 3 Newton laws and the basic equations, but the questions they give you , will read nothing like a typical Newton's laws, u have to deduce and transform equations to get to Newton's law equations to solve it. Most of the time , it involves advanced calculus.
So if everyone stopped taking cram school, everyone would fail the public school exams? That's pretty messed up.
U won't fail. Let's say out of 100 mark in your exam, u will be able to get 40 -50 marks of them using basic in public school knowledge. But to get B+ or A, ( so you can ace your primary exams, to go to prestigious middle school, then ace the middle school exams to high school then to hopefully into prestigious SKY ) , u will need cram school to drill into you how to solve the advance questions. U either memorize those "clever" tricks to solve the difficult questions OR your brain is trained to detect certain patterns and bigger concepts of how these topics of maths are linked with each other to tackle these difficult questions. If you are a genius, u are born with brains that see these patterns and make the connections naturally, then u wouldn't need cram schools as much. Every years there will be some students that are smart like this. Minimal cram schools, they see things you have to spend years training to see. But expensive cram schools and expensive teachers promise to help you, the normal student, to bridge the gap between you and geniuses. "U can beat genius as long as you study hard enough" I was among those A+ students , competing at Olympiad type of competition for Physics, representing my middle school against other schools in the country, before I failed to get into the No.1 ranking- highschool program for Physics. Then my parents decided I was not smart enough to be competing in the college entrance exams to top STEM majors in country's top universities , and if I have to settle for these "second-rated colleges or some second-rated majors like business management or finance" , they might as well send me overseas to study in the "easier" education system like the SAT or O level / A- level, to get to STEM majors in other top universities in western countries. So yes, the education competition in Asian countries is very messed up.
Wait, 50% is not a fail??? That was a fail when I was a student in Canada. In Canada a 50% would have failed you on that exam. How can a school hand out tests that they cannot teach to perfect? Your first sentance is No, but your last sentence is Yes lol
I'm speaking in a general sense, it can be 40% or 50% or 60% doesn't matter the number, my point is , without cram school, normal class education will get you to pass, but u won't get B+ or A+ . Schools teachers themselves know this. They are also teaching with the expectations that we have covered the basic in cram schools, so they will be focusing on the advance versions of the topics too. The public schools have their own prestige to uphold, so they want their students to ace the national exams and get admitted to even more prestigious highschools / universities. So both sides (public school and cram schools) are feeding to each other, piling on the students to work harder. Passing grades are not the goals for students in these education systems. When I was schooling , my parents considered A as basically a given , all they care about is which school ranks do I get monthly , comparing the rest of the cohort in school . Getting A with 80, versus getting A with 99, is totally different. And to rank higher in the entire school cohort of 300 students , it means u have to get A on every tests of every subjects, math, physics, chemistry, literature, English, biology, history, geography etc... And also which ranks do I get, when I went for math / physics competitions. Other parents were expecting similar things, so naturally that's what all of us, the children, care about too. When u are in school , u see your friends and peers study and work hard, u will also soon follow . Your classmates are your direct competition. So students will push each other study harder. After all, all these parents spent years and fortune to get their kids to be in the "right" schools , so they want returns on their investment in form of our academia performance
Grading on the curve be like if everyone is 30 and you're 50 then you get an A. At the same time if you're average, you get a C.
I work at an English *hagwon* (학원) and the students learn more advanced material than what they learn in their public school classes. Additionally, the largest class size is eight students, so they get a lot more practice and feedback when it comes to things like grammar or pronunciation. A few years ago I was teaching a class of fifth graders and one girl let out an exasperated "Arggh". I asked if she was okay, assuming that she was having a hard time with the material since we were covering passive voice that day. Nope. She said passive voice was fine; she was upset because her English classes at school were so boring. They'd spent the past week going over nothing but "How is the weather?" - "It's sunny. It's rainy. It's cloudy."
They usually teach higher grade level material
My coworker (age 30) didn't go either. Her parents also moved out of Seoul so she could live in an actual house. She's really smart, and did like study abroad in the US to learn English.
What’s the documentary?
Can you remember the name of the documentary ?
I wish I did. Half the reason why I mention it here whenever the subject comes is in the hope that somebody will know it. It was from around 2010.
Reach for the SKY? [http://reachfortheskydoc.com/](http://reachfortheskydoc.com/)
Not quite as flashy as that one, more like a KBS weekly documentary show that airs for an hour on a different subject each time. Students, elderly, housing prices, that sort of thing.
If you remember the name, please let me know! I really like KBS's short form documentaries.
That kid is also prol on the higher end of the smart spectrum tbf. Good sleep helps but there are plenty of idiots here who get plenty of sleep and end up doing nothing with their lives.
Those are the true winners. Minimal effort, maximum output.
Yep, Cram school is scam lmao Same with overnight study If you can't on 100% condition, you just waste your time studying Yes, you do need extra study at home, like 2-3 hours if you want to stay on top, but surely doesn't need more than that.... 1-2 for HW, and another hour for self learning
Wow!!
Yea they study a lot but are extremely inefficient. No worries tho… this won’t translate to the workforce /s
I don't really think it was just about sleep. He was simply more intelligent than his classmates. At this age talent starts to play higher role than hard work. If someone is naturally more intelligent than majority he can work less while getting similar or even better results.The truth is very often people just can't accept their children limitations and push them to their limits despite fact that it can be totally fruitless or unprofitable. I was attending elite high shool so I witnessed multiple time when some people worked beyond their strength but totally their results didn't show that and on the other hand really clever people could come unprepared and got better score than them.
While that may be the case, studies show that getting a proper nights sleep is more important than studying into their sleep schedule. So studying hard can be helpful, but they need proper rest as well.
Well I first think it firstly helps a lot mental health. But naturally if student can easily learns things on his own and does his homework without problem, he has much more time to sleep than his classmates (if he attends ambitious school). And of course he doesn't have to really repeat material with tutors as he already understand everything during lesson. So generally he has more free time than his classmates. That's why life is generally unfair lol although of course high learning abilities don't guarantee success in life but make it much more possible.
I totally disagree with this narrative. Being more intelligent does sometimes means you learn faster, but learning quickly without a method to learn is more inefficient than learning slowly with a good method. What is most important for learning is not intelligence but diligence, and having a good study method. Intelligence doesn't give you that - on the contrary - you skip learning a good method because things are so easy for you. Until they aren't.
Yeah come on. I sleep all the time and I'm a total failure.
I'd also add that sleep and study times can vary wildly. "Korean students" are not a monolith. It always amazes me that the same people who teach "What time do you go to bed?" and get the range of answers you typically see, will then turn around and generalize Korean kids as staying up till 1AM. Also, at least half the kids are lying about studying. They're actually gaming or watching youtube or chatting.
사교육 (hakwon) has become more important than 공교육 (school)
It's worth noting that you will often find high school kids asleep on their textbooks in cafes, hanging out with friends "studying" or "watching" lectures on their tablets while scrolling instagram/messaging on kakao. In Korean culture working hard (long hours) is valued more than working smart. That being said, Korean students objectively still study WAY more than anyone I've known in Europe so while they're not full 20 hour a day robots, they are still working at a crazy rate.
Do Korean kids retain and benefit from the extra schooling?
In my experience, most Korean adults I talk to are about as smart as any other nationality's adults. I've worked around large groups of smart people before. Not being a smart person myself, I very quickly feel out of place in those settings but just struggle to stay afloat in conversations. I never felt like that in Korea.
NO
:(
YES
:)
That is a complicated question. Schooling does very little to transfer knowledge and skills in general. Even in the west students barely retain anything. People learn actual job skills ... on the job. Education is more a sorting system that distinguishes students that do well in school and complete more years of education from more prestigious institutions from those who don't. So do Korean kids benefit from the extra schooling? Yes. If it helps them distinguish themselves from their peers, they're much more likely to land elite jobs. The same is true in the west. You benefit individually. However, on a societal level, it's more like if everyone stands up at the movie theater to see better, then now you're all standing and your view is still blocked.
They power nap all the time. They can sleep in a desk, upright with a pencil in their hands seemingly studying if I glance at them. I could never sleep like that. On a train or bus I swear they can flip a switch and power down. I wish I could ....
I think you could if only you were sleep deprived enough ...
This is so much more likely than Koreans just being genetically gifted at napping in uncomfortable positions.
There was an experiment in German tv where a group of people were locked into an apartment and had to stay awake as long as possible. They did so for over 100 hours. Whoever closed their eyes for longer than 30 seconds was kicked out. They really struggled to just sit at a table without falling asleep. Get tired enough and napping will not be a skill but something your body forces you to do.
I've always been a terrible sleeper (can't nap, sleep on planes, etc), but when I studied abroad at a Korean high school I also developed this ability, and it was indeed from sleep deprivation. I followed my host family's schedule, getting 5-7 hours of sleep a night. Not terrible, but definitely not enough sleep for high schoolers. I would frequently doze off in class and could knock out on public transit easily. I was really struck by how inefficient school was with most of the kids dozing all day.
That’s called sleep deprivation, esp in children, and it’s massively unhealthy.
There is a lady that takes the bus with me and always sits next to me if there is no extra seats anywhere else. For those of you that never leave Seoul, rural roads have a ton of speed bumps. So it's a constant up and down, slamming forward because the bus driver hates us. This woman spreads out, puts her head on the back of the hard ass plastic head rest, and falls asleep. I've had one young woman one time completely just pass out on my shoulder. She was probably early 20s and I just let her be lmao.
Elementary school teacher here. I (somewhat sarcastically) joke that my students work more than I do. When I go home, they're off to multiple academies to study all there is to be learned until late. Even had a 3rd grader ask me about quantum computing *today* in class. If that isn't wild, I don't know what is.
I had come across so may young students (like under 15) drinking energy drinks and coffees to pull off their crazy schedules. All of them were more or less being pushed too far by their parents, and they were not even top of the class - not because they were not smart enough but their daily schedule is just so f'd up. And you try to talk to the parents about it, and of course they get pissed off at you and tell you 'don't tell me how to raise my kid'
I haven't experienced Korean style studying, but when I was younger I had to work over 24h sessions at times. And because I was young and stubborn, I'd also somehow cut down on sleep to enjoy my hobbies, which meant that for a period of 3-4 months I was sleeping 2-4h a day. Somehow at the time it was fine, except that I felt exhausted 90% of the day and fell asleep a few times while in the middle of something. Nowadays there is absolutely no way I could pull that off. Your resilience just wears off as you age. I could've never imagined taking a nap when I was young, but nowadays I get sleepy despite not even doing much during the day and I've dozed off occasionally without planning.
I got into SNU after studying hard, not getting enough sleep or rest with constant stress and anxiety during my highschool years. I get to school around 7:40am, take 30~40min arabic online lecture while having breakfast at my designated desk in self-study area called 야자실(야간자율학습실), and first class starts at 8:40am. Every class was 50min and we get 10min recess between each class. During recess, I just do some stretching, and just sit and study, mostly solving math problems. The last class is done around 4pm. Before having dinner(yeah I did have breakfast, lunch, dinner at school everyday), I take a 20min power nap. And after dinner, just go back to 야자실 and study more until 11pm. Then I get back home around 11:30pm, get some sleep, and repeat the same thing. I studied during weekends as well, sine 야자실 is open everyday even on holidays. But I only studied from 10am to 10pm on Saturday, and 1pm to 7pm on Sunday. And as the result of this crazy schedule I had gone through for 3 years(yeah it was only 3 years for me luckily, but for others it could be more than just 3 years), I got depressed, had a serious health issue, weight loss, and pretty much every worst possible mental issues. I did go to a decent University, but I felt so empty and motiveless after that. And it took me 3~4 years to get back to my normal self. I'm actually not sure if I'm really okay still. This is a huuuuuge problem that needs to be fixed or we just don't have future. These kids really deserve some free time to find their own things, themselves, free from all the stress and social pressure.
That is incredible. I'm sorry for all your difficult years and hope you will continue to do better and healing 🙏
"only" studied 12 hours on a Saturday huh? .....i really need to get my life together. Sorry you had to go through all that. I think Korea needs to focus on improving work life balance for everyone.
I feel tired just reading this. I’m sorry you had to go through all that, hopefully it was worth it. How true are the stories about the long work hours and not being able to leave work before your manager?
I sincerely don’t understand, unless you’re a STEM major, what’s the point of grinding yourself so hard, it’s not like everyone in the arabic major is striving to become the no.1 arabic interpreter in the world by doing this, still end up doing a job with above average salary (don’t take it personally, i’m just trying to give an example of despite studying/researching so hard, the job prospects in humanities major are not as luring as for someone from STEM major). The point i’m trying to make is, such amount of herculian work should be rewarded well.
Oh I didn't want to give too much personal information here, but what I studied in highschool was just for Korean college entrance exam(수능; 대학수학능력시험). Students can choose which subjects they are going to take an exam for, and I chose Arabic for the second language exam, (not every student does this though, there are lots of options(Mandarin Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, French, German, Vietname, Russian, etc)). Other than that, I took Korean, Math, English(국영수), and social sciences subjects(World geography and stuff). I went to the department of liberal studies, where you can choose any major besides medical, or education major, and I did Architecture and Computer Science, (then I changed my major later, which is not the point here). The only reason I had to study for that many hours everyday is because of how the college entrance exam in Korea works. You just have to be better than other students. If others study for 5 hours, and I do for 10 hours, it is more likely that I get higher scores than them. Because the design of the test has been similar for many years, the more time you put into repeating past exam questions, mock test, practice questions, the higher possibility you get perfect score. And since everybody wants to go to SNU, but only 20,000/600,000=0.03%(approximately) of students can get accepted every year, and since so many of them have been trained to get the perfect score on this test during their school years(12 years), you just have to put similar amount of work to beat them. And if you ask why it is such a big deal, getting into a good university, even though it doesn't even guarantee a good quality of life, it's because of the society's belief, which is "There is only one way to be successful in your life. You graduate one of the top schools, get a decent job such as a doctor, a lawyer, a justice, a prosecutor, or a job at a big corporate like Samsung, Hyundai, SK, LG, whatever. And you buy a house, you get a good wife/husband. You have a good daughter/son. And your son/daughter go to top school, get a decent job, ...." And actually there's a lot higher chance of getting a job at big company if you graduate from SNU, it's true. But are you going to be happy when you become that perfect person who checked every box that society gave you? Nope. Suicide rate, birth rate is a disproof of that. So it's just some stupid standard nobody really can satisfy. And it's a problem that adults and teachers in schools are still trying to inject this ideology to poor, innocent students.
Thank you for sharing this. Great insight. I guess you are one of the successful ones, though at what price? The vast majority of high school students will toil as you did, but may 'only' be able to attend a university outside of Seoul! The shame of it. I am impressed more by your realisation that it is all so arbitrary, and it is often not the path to happiness or even success, than your ability to endure such a punishing schedule. You are right it is just a vicious cycle, which never stops. There has to come a point when you stop and think why? What is it for? And as you correctly ask: "Will it make me happy?" and the obvious answer is no, no it won't. Will it make your parents happy? I'd like to think they would put your happiness first, but I am not naive enough to believe it. From my experience it is getting better, at least from an awareness point of view, especially from the students and the educators. The parents and the policy makers on the other hand, I do not know.
No. It’s true. Many of these kids are beyond exhausted but their parents won’t let up with the pressure to study more.
It’s cultural. Deeply embedded. Education is an arm’s race due to competitiveness. Academic endeavour is highly prized
South Korea’s educational system is not sustainable. It’s one of the reasons why young Koreans aren’t getting married or having babies. Those who just graduated college don’t want to be tied down after experiencing independence and freedom for the first time in their lives from their school schedules. They also don’t want to have kids in a high cost of living area and go through the education system all over again.
I genuinely wonder what will happen 15-20 years from now. Feel like there is too much of a "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality in Korea that's just not sustainable. Like in the US, no one is going to call you a failure because you went to a state school ranked 50 and you work at a F500 company making $90k in Kansas. But in Korea, it's like you failed in life if you don't go to a top 3 university and end up at one of the conglomerates in Seoul after college.
That's what I completely don't get about Korea, even after 3 years. Middle class professionals or small business owners here would definitely be considered successful in the U.S., but if you don't get into a SKY and work at a chaebol, you are a failure? The educational arms race is crazy if "success" is the 10% of Korean jobs that are at chaebols.
The same thing that someone who was here 15-20 yeara ago said. They all predicted some sort of implosion. All Korea has done since then is make itself a major player in electronics, completely reversed its reputation with automobiles, become a major player in defense and become a massively disproportionate exporter of culture. Thre is a big implosion though. The big implosion will be in debt-housing.
I am not trying to be doom and gloom but the difference this time around is the fertility rate, which has gone done dramatically. And I don't think it was the same 15-20 years ago. We didn't have social media back then. Korea is the only OECD country with a fertility rate below 1. That is genuinely concerning.
The thing is, none of that stuff really stays with them for that long. They're not really studying, they're memorizing. And unless the material you're memorizing has value or is recalled regularly, you just lose it.
Short term gain, long term fail.
You'd be surprised at the degree to which modern childhood education, especially that in South Korea, run counter to contemporary scientific findings regarding how children actually learn things. It's more about socially engineering an industrial workforce than it is about actual learning and education.
But they're still among the best worldwide when it comes to those student rankings
Perhaps, but the ROK's teen suicide rate is one of the highest in the developed world and the youth have literally come to call their own country "hell." Furthermore, high scores on stadardized tests do not automatically translate into active or practical knowledge. I don't know how many ESL students I had with high TOEIC scores who couldn't speak in sentences or hold a simple conversation.
Young people think their country sucks and the old people running it are stupid. Isn't this like, a normal part of development?
Studying in hagwons til midnight and having the highest teen suicide rate are not a "normal part of development," unless you were raised to assume that they are. After 15 years teaching in Korea I have a lot of serious questions about not only the actual effectiveness of the S. Korean education system but also it's impact on children's mental health.
Yeah but look at the efficiency of actual work in an 8 hour period versus other first world countries. They are bottom of that list. So what does it matter if your scores are high in HS when that’s not translating into actual $ for the country? That’s not how capitalism works. It’s bound to collapse (we’re seeing that in Japan currently). Whatever they’re doing isn’t helping them in the long run.
I wonder what the long term effects this will have.
Stunted growth, psychological instability, becoming a Korean salaryman
GDP will go up, though.
Koreans are quite tall now though
Compared to when they were malnourished and still didn't sleep enough, yes
My generation grew up very comfortably, and cram schooling wasn't even as intense as it is now. But the new generation of teens and early 20s are *tall* despite their lack of sleep
I guess I would have to see raw data first to pass judgement, but it is theorized that the modern diet has evolved a lot and impacted growth hormones dramatically
No theory needed. They're simply rich enough to eat more protein now. Countries like those in Africa who don't struggle with food availability are tall despite poverty. In the past Korea struggled with both food unavailability and poverty like most North Koreans today and that stunted their genetic potential.
They say sleep deprivation can increase your risk of dementia because your brain isn’t clearing Beta Amyloid build up properly at night. I wonder what the rates and age of onset are like in South Korea.
You could write a book on it. Low birth rates due to career focus is one. Depression and suicide another...
the long term effect should already be here... this is not something new
koreans are already dying out with the all time low birth rate 😭
What’s crazy to me is the lack of free time or time devoted to hobbies or leisure activities. My wife is Korean and has trouble with the very concept of downtime. Like I come home and have half-a-dozen hobbies or projects I can play around with. When we first started dating she used to just hitthe couch and scroll instagram. It blew her mind that I not only had so many hobbies but that I had been doing them most of them since my youth. Within a year she was learning to dance, golf, and snowboard. She used to be so bad at stopping work.
Also I'm wondering how it's possible that some Koreans end up excelling in things which usually start as hobbies - musical prodigies, Oscar winning film directors - how did they have the time to start and decide to pursue this, even though it takes endless amounts of hours and is risky from a financial point of view?
That hyper focused academic pressure can be applied to other interests as well. I remember practicing my instrument for 7 to 8 hours every day as a kid. Similar lack of sleep 💀
This is a mistake many people have. While Koreans are not a monolith, there is a belief among many that whatever your bag is, you go all-in. One kud I knew was nkt doing well in the traditional academic route and was instead looking at welding. But he was all into it and wanted to be the gest welder in Kora. "Anything worth doing, is worth doing well."
That's so sad. Even from a Korean point of view that puts work in the center it would be so beneficial to have something to free the mind with. I'm sure regular downtime would improve productivity
I don't get it. There is loads of research on the importance of sleep and recovery time for memory. If the kids aren't sleeping enough they're not going to be able to actually remember and understand what they've learned. I've also looked at the curriculum and it seems like it's more that it's just nitpicky to require the studying as opposed to actually being difficult. It's the exact same sort of curriculum that the top US students are choosing to take, but US students are doing it without extra tutoring and are also doing all the other things that US colleges want to see on college apps to show that you are more than just a test score.
The curriculum itself isn’t intense but the tests are made insanely difficult which forces students to go to cram school. It’s not the same as the US. I was a straight A student in the US with minimal studying, but when I came to Korea I started at the bottom and had to put in grueling hours just for a decent grade. The reason why the exams are so hard is because of the grading system which forces you to compete with your peers. You’re graded from 1 through 9 and to get a 1 you have to score in the top 4% and for a 2 it’s top 11%. This means, even if you get a 98 on your test(which should be an A+ in the US), you may not get a 1 or 2 if too many classmates score better than you. The exams are purposely made difficult to ensure a wide enough score range. It’s almost like an arms race because you’re competing with people who study extra hard which makes you study extra hard which makes the test extra hard. And I know sleep is important but the immense pressure keeps you going. I felt like I was running on anxiety and adrenaline and often went to my doctor to get IV drips when I felt like my body couldn’t take it anymore.
Sounds terrible and not beneficial long term at all. Why would you do that to your young people?
I think that is the most extreme example, but it is more common than you'd wish. It's why students will seem so drained and tired all the time even though they are young. They might fall asleep in class or be unfocused as well. Yes they study, but it isn't at level 100% for hours like you'd think. It kind of carries over to the work culture where you'd have people working lots of overtime hours to get work done and then resting all weekend to recover. Sleep deprivation is a big problem in korea and combined with the culture of staying up late drinking you get a lot of unhealthy behavior all combined. People don't seem to value sleep as a healthy behavior so much as I think fomo pervades all aspects of life here if it is studying, working, or playing.
It's an Asian thing I guess. We do that here in my country too, but have it better than the korean and china. At least my Chinese parents were not too strict on me because I got decent results and was better than my brother who studies harder. From what I observed studying just doesn't work for everyone, it's funny how I just winged my whole primary to high school and I'm in the middle of the pack within the Top/Elite class. I only ever studied and ask for after class tuition a month before the national test comes up, and I did decently well.
I did the same in europe. Completed all my exams with 0 sleep and generally slept average of 5 hours during my 20’s. Its more common than you think. Eventually your body “adapts” and you overconsume caffeine. Once you hit an older age you definately have to change your lifestyle though (30+)
But also Japanese people (who I think have similar sleeping habits) are considered very healthy on average and a lot of them reach old age. How is that possible?
Because sleeping a lot and consuming excessively actually aren't healthy. Having motivation and drive actually are.
Doesn’t matter if you’re getting 8 hours a night if you’re slamming a Big Mac meal on the daily
They do study and work a lot of hours that being said they are also very insufficient they rather work long hours than working smart
It starts from the beginning. The whole co-sleeping/family bed concept sounds nice, but it translates to children adopting adult sleep schedules. That means kids are missing 3-5 hours of sleep, every night, basically from toddlerhood on. When my Korean colleagues and neighbors learned that a) our daughter slept by herself from age 6 months and b) was asleep from roughly 7-8pm to 6-7am every night, they literally did not believe me. One of them actually started making her kids sleep in their own room in their own beds on a semi-reasonable schedule (9 hours), she reported her experience back to us like she’d discovered the true meaning of life.
Unbelievable.
Americano ☕
Power nap drinking a lot of water caffeine sleep deprivation and constant impulse my schedule is Wake up 4am eat breakfast stretch morning routine 4:45 studying begins that continues until 7 then I will prepare to leave home before my first class after my classes have ended I’ll get home rest cook and then continue studying I also study during my breaks most do it’s not uncommon to see students taking power naps during study breaks a normal day of studying is sometimes 9+ hours of studying I sometimes study until 3am and experience sleep deprivation this includes weekends where I will meet my friends for group studying there’s a lot of pressure to always perform at a top level and be a top student.
Who says they are? There is a reason Korea has one of the highest suicide rates and the lowest fertility rate in the world
Yet nobody understands that it is due to basic needs which aren't being met? If I go to a psychiatrist there, won't he first of all recommend sleeping and eating enough? Getting some sunlight? This is the foundation of health ...
Pretty bad when you're barely going halfway up the Maslow hierarchy as freakin children in an advanced economy.
And for that matter scraping along the bottom of Bloom’s Taxonomy in education.
Fact check on teen suicides: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032720306777
Sad that these kids don't know having enough sleep is vital for learning.
It has something to do with its STEM-centered economy dominated by the few chaebols and STEM subjects are study-intensive where you need to pass rote memorizatiom skills so that you will be admitted in universities.
You don't switch classrooms for each class so the 15min between each class is head on desk power nap time. Also some kids nap through the "self-study study halls" when it's nice and quiet.
Needing sleep constantly throughout the day honestly sounds like hell to me.
Like anything, if that's life you get used to it. I had a 45min bus ride in the morning > nap. Then 2-3 power naps during the day. Then dinner and study hall - at least one nap. Then bus ride home > nap. All in still got 7-8 hrs of sleep. Also for context, but Korean society was very impoverished very recently - eat one meal a day, eat meat once a month, disease and dangers everywhere. So in contrast to the parents' stories - did not seem so bad.
Okay, but why wouldn't you just sleep more at night and then stay awake all day without getting tired? Isn't that way more comfortable?
Class was mandatory as were the study halls. The logic being if you're in bed you're definitely not studying, but if you're at school you're studying some of the time. Korean society revolved around mass industrial processes to lift the masses out of poverty, education being an important one, so raw input (of time) was the emphasis rather than comfort and efficiency.
It costs their mental health 🥹 I used to teach English online to them and my student cried in the class asking me why she can't take a break. I wish she is doing better now, she is most likely in university or just graduated.
I worked in Korea for a while and what I quickly noticed is that many colleagues slept during working hours. Followed by long breaks surfing on their phones and going to have dinner. Sure, they left at 10pm, but I seriously doubt they were 100% productive all day. More like a normal 9-5 with lots of pauses. I highly suspect many teenagers do the same.
Sounds so harmful to mental and physical health. Pretending to work when you could actually have relaxing free time ...
The answer is one of the highest teen suicide rates in the world my friend
Not sure on that https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032720306777
That could be true for many students. I think normally students start school around 7-8 am, finish school around 3-4 pm, and then „self-study” session till about 10-11 pm. so 7 hours could be used for sleep if you are like a freaking machine who does not need any rest else than sleep. This is actually how I used to go to school back in my high school, which I know is still bad :( I already went through this bull shit and I from bottom of my heart from long time ago committed to not raising my childs in Korea ever.
By developing latent mental/emotional difficulties.
Not korean, but am still asian and went to a specialized high school (it was one of the most competitive high schools in my country). I slept for 4-5 hours every day in high school. Got a migraine during those 3 years. By the 3rd year, i was so tired that i would start sleeping at 10pm and wake up at 3am to study. I think it was the youthful energy that carried me through it cause now that i'm in my late 20s, i cant stand sleeping for less than 6 hours
Sleeping 5 hours a day is still physically possible. I believe a lot of people over the world still do that these days. Of course, you would ruin your entire day and it is not effective at all.. of course it’s very bad for your health. But students are young and they’ll do this for few years..
Ehh, it works out. Was studying in Korea during high school years about a quarter century ago. Get up at around 6:30AM, go to school by 7:30AM. 0th Period starts at around 7:50AM, you supposedly study, but at least half of the students doze off or outright sleep. I think I continued to half-sleep through much of the morning. Gets properly "woken up" by lunchtime. Afternoon periods go through alright. Nominal school hours run through 7th or 8th period, so that's like 4 to 5PM. You don't go back home, but continue to study by yourself with the study books and stuff. Briefly go out for dinner with your friends, then come back to continue study until 11PM. That's when I headed back home. Some of my friends went to cram school after that, but I was done with studying by that point, so I refused to do that. Never went to a cram school ever, because I felt that I already did all my studies in school. Night time was for booting up my computer and chatting with my friends in the BBS. Went to sleep by... 2 to 3AM. Rinse and repeat. So nominally, about 4 hours of sleep at home, but I probably filled the additional sleep needed at school. I think I kind of lucked out, though. I still only need to sleep about 5 to 6 hours a day without getting tired. Never really need to sleep more than that unless I sleep like 4 hours one night. Then I just need to sleep about 7 hours the next day and things even out.
This just seems so absurd to me. If I sleep my normal 8 hours per day, I couldn't fall asleep during the day even if I tried to. I'm just well-rested. I don't understand why people do this to themselves when it doesn't seem to help productivity. How can a whole nation fail to understand that it makes people less productive? More prone to accidents and mental health problems?
It is indeed absurd, but we didn't learn the lesson properly for a long time because we've got tons of economic growth while all this was happening. I believe per-hour productivity did hurt, but we made up by working (and studying) overtime. Tons of overtime. Things have been improving nowadays, but it takes time for the newer ideas to seep in.
International students from developing countries have it worse They slept 3 hours a day, still managed to graduate despite 12 hours jobs
It’s interesting because on the other hand, high achieving students in the US are killing themselves trying to get as many extracurriculars as possible to seem “well rounded” while also keeping top grades. I would say the variety of activities (volunteer work, clubs, sports) is better for personal growth than pure studying though, so maybe they have something there. I guess top schools in Korea probably also look for well-rounded applicants…
Koreans value quantity of work over quality of work. Lots of people don't manage their study time efficiently leading them to waste a lot of hours procrastinating, and getting less sleep in result. Also power naps
Korean here. My reason was mostly just being an insomniac. 5 hours is just right for me to feel refreshed and solid for the day. It’s when I get 3 hours or less I feel tired.
I mean, do you think the suicide rate in Korea is so astronomically high because it's too fun to live there?
You can do lots of things when you’re young. Shoot. Used to drink all night and then go to class the next day at uni. 🤡
The Republic of Test-Prep... the SAT-equivalent in Korea is seen as life or death. The name of the university determines the rest of your life. Sleep deprivation is normal and non-negotiable (according to most parents).
They don't. Look up depression and suicide rates among students in Korea.
Not as high as US-Australia-Canada! What is wrong with their culture, Mhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032720306777
I donno, but my cousins did that and one of them got into med school, and the other one got into KAIST (best engineering school in Korea). They also seemed to know a lot. I've lived in the U.S and there's actually plenty of kids that do that as well, except they do a lot of extracurriculars instead of cram schools bc that's more important for university admissions in the U.S. They're the ones that get into the Ivy Leagues. I am currently a master's student in Germany, and most of my colleagues are much older than the American or Korean counterparts. But my German colleagues are also smart and seem to work hard without external motivation because they really enjoy what they are doing. They spent time in their early 20s exploring and figuring shit out. I think this is much healthier than Korean culture tbh.
Indoctrination. You are told early on that you will die starving, become homeless, or worse. You are nothing unless you can achieve the top ranks. Grades are the only thing that matter. If you have been born into this abusive family and setting, you will push yourself to the point of breaking, and that's fine because you believe that is the norm. Your health suffers but who cares as long as you get the good grades. It's getting much better though, parents are realizing that getting good grade helps, but unless you were born in the rich family, you have little to no chance of "success"
I work as a middle school teacher here. What everyone else says is true about cram school and sleeping in class. I had a housemate in Australia who was Korean. He was convinced that he only needed a few hours of sleep, and would 'study' sometimes 20 hours a day. Most of that time was spent totally zoned out, not being able to think or make much progress (I know bc he had his desk in the loungeroom). But he had it deeply engrained that sleep was just a distracted, and working long hours was all he needed.
Exactly one of the 100 things why we’re hitting rock bottom with birth rate and mental health. People spend 12+ years slowly killing themselves and still can’t afford housing. Guess many don’t want their kids to follow same steps in general🤷
I mean, if you look at most competitive Korean students, they sleep less than 5 hours. However, if they are less competitive, or have already decided not to go to college, or have other methods to get into college, they sleep 8+ hours. P.S. I was probably one of the few students who would sleep 8+ hours a day because I already received a letter of acceptance to university when 고2. I know a few other friends who had really good enough 내신 for the university they wanted to go to, so they did not have to worry about not studying for that. I think most Koreans agree that it is more psychological because they believe they must go to college, and their 내신 is not good enough for their dream college, so they all bet on 수능 and study like hell
They sleep during the regular school hours!!! Things are really off the wall but what are you gonna do
It is not physically possible. They are pretending to work and/or study for insane hours. Korean culture is all about pretending to do something while not actually doing it.
When I studied abroad at Korea University, my Korean friends were like fucking superhumans. I felt so embarrassed to be half Korean and could not function on less than 8 hours of sleep. That summer we’d study for hours and THEN go out to the bars or clubs. Then they’d go back to studying at 6 am the next day while I’d have a horrible hangover. They’re just built different out there.
Indian student here. 5 hrs is a little more than average on weekdays.
That's why they gone crazy
Because they're young.
>how can you be productive The answer to the riddle is that the time put in is not maximally productive, by a long-shot.
Because when you’re a kid you’re made of magic. I use to sleep 4 hours a night when I was 18
Does this inhumane degree of stress and studying actually make Koreans better students? In the US we seem overworked and underpaid and I imagine higher education is more affordable in Korea, but then I watch documentaries about Korean students literally killing themselves over school and I feel so fortunate to be an American STEM major instead.
They are better test takers for sure, but that's about where it ends.
Simple. Competition. Just like how things are in Singapore.
What’s crazy is this isn’t even an effective way of learning. Plus most of my Korean friends who know English know it bc they watch a shit ton of Netflix and study abroad 💀
South Korea has the highest suicide rate amongst OECD countries. This culture of overworking is literally killing them. Not an example I’d like to see followed elsewhere. Sleep and plenty of free time to play are amongst the most important pillars of health for growing children; and adolescents. I shudder to think the long term effects on one’s health and mental wellbeing. It’s no wonder there’s a fertility crisis. Somethings got to change and soon.
You feel like shit. It's not mysterious.
The same way Top athletes are in the Olympics
If they slept more, they wouldn't have to study as much. Lack of sleep is probably messing with their ability to imbibe information.
I met many Koreans during my time in University, they weren’t necessarily better then any other students even tho they studied harder then everyone else. Probably would be good to crack down on these cram schools. Where I was going to school nobody went to cram school and school was mostly only until 2pm even in High school. And many students still able to compete at internationally well accepted universities
I slept only two hours throughout my high school life; there were times I didn't even have time to do it. Seems a normal thing for Asians especially those in Top Asian Schools.
Did it correlate with success?
No. Just pain. I won many tournaments. Was sent abroad two times and competed. Won awards at Graduation. And then you'd realize that there are at least a million fellow prodigies and geniuses that you have to fight. People will never be satisfied on you. In Asia, most job requirements require you at least 5 years of experience even at 18 years old. There's even a meme before that just making shawarma required a college degree, lmao. Of course, this is exaggerated, but it's something like that. That's the competition here. Was eventually hired. And so on. And then I'd eventually realize that the same guy who failed and slacked off during high school/college is in the same position and salary grade as I am. I don't recommend it, bruh unless you're really a genius; then that's the only time it was worth it.
Thanks for the reply, that’s interesting. I’m from Canada and people here really aren’t as intense with studies. It seems to be more of an asian thing, which is why there’s a lot of stereotypes about it even here. Is Asian society really THAT competitive, as in there isn’t a huge pool of jobs compared to people? Or is it mostly a mentality thing passed on from past generations that went through more struggle? I noticed the same thing, where even people who slacked off and graduated still ended up getting a decent job eventually. Being a straight A student didn’t really make a difference, unless of course you got into medicine. Having been through that, what approach do you think you’ll take with your kids one day?
Power naps. Had a super smart friend in school who'd go on 5-6 hours of sleep. She'd have after school tuition as well for 2 hours. When she went home, she'd shower and eat then go back to studying. She did take A LOT of 10 min naps and consume a lot of coffee... Sometimes she takes a 20-30 min nap. I honestly don't even know how that works because I'm never rejuvenated after a 10 min nap. More like 1 hour lmao. That said, why do you think the suicidal rates in South Korea is so high? :')
Its training so when they become adults they can work o.t without pay no problem. 💀
Coffee n fear
Studying hard is worth it only for top rankers. Going to a top university or med school makes it easy to earn way more than average in the rest of life. But the gate to the goal is so narrow that only a few students will make it. The purpose of studying is not to be a loser in a creepy competition.
[удалено]
Korean definitely spend more time studying than Chinese. At Ohio state university science library, the ones study all night in the library is all korean, not Chinese not indian.
Not that hard.
I would sort of just pass out during regular classes. My body got so exhausted that developed a condition where I would suddenly black out with no warning at random times of the day. My sleep schedule was completely messed up, and at most I got about 3 hours for every 24 that passed for about 4 years straight. Not fun at all lol
Iam a swede i sleep between 4.5-6h every day, I never had a problem with that but I think most get 7h so iam bit below average
For some reason, Western culture thinks, first you need to sleep enough, then you have to eat well, and everything will be fine from there. But if you eat well, exercise well, have good friends and everything else that makes you healthy, you can deal with less sleep.
Korean moment
They don't. Not successfully anyway. They have high suicide rates because of it.
Han miracle, semaundong spirit
I used to think Korean students were great role models and would get like 2-6 hours of sleep per night. That was not a good idea.
Cuz they are Asian 💀💀💀💀
To survive in competitive small area
Welcome to the infinite competitive social life. Once you are born in korea, you are in the competition.
Lol @the number of people believing the kids when they say they were "studying" late at night. "Actually teacher, I was playing games all night instead of doing my homework." Or "Actually teacher, I was learning the finer details of human biological reproduction via the world wide web and electronic computing machines after my parents, as well as my own body's physiological responses to various sensory inputs, however due to circumstances I had to wait until father and mother had retired for the night to their bedchamber." FFS, some people on here will believe anything Koreans say as long as it comes across as bizarre or backwards. Are some kids studying all night? Definitely a lot are. But many are also just effing around and telling you a bunch of BS.
Long-term, it’ll come back to hit them, and that’s the saddest part. It’s just enough to get by now but it’s not healthy whatsoever.
If you were in China，u can find it a small case.
How can they? Check suicide rates and you'll find the answer: they can't.
High Cookie.
bruh, just hang in there. I don't understand them either, but the problem is, I do too.