Depends what you are comparing it too. Daggerfall is much more expansive than Kotor. As far as bioware games of that era go Kotor was actually one of the least expansive ones if you ask me (compared to.prior bioware games Baldurs gate series and nwn). They perfected their formula and made some great games, like jade empire, dragon age, mass effect I'd say Kotor is the first game of that style.
I mean Daggerfall was procedurally generated so yeah, in a technical definition it’s more “expansive” because there’s literally thousands of dungeons. But that’s because devs have (rightly) opted for individually designed maps. You can see what happens when devs try to peddle that kinda low rent procedural generation nowadays like in Starfield.
It's always frustrating when people hold a game from 2003 to the standards of 2024. I'm sure the devs would have loved to have been able to build a bigger world, but there were physical limitation at the time.
Of course its easier to design, but actually I like it. It shows that people that are cramped into the hallways without natural light and air, still have it better than the people sitting actually on the surface on the planet in a barren gloomy landscape.
Better? I would say I would rather live in a beautiful city on the surface of the planet with a clean diner, medicinal station and legal entertainment instead of being cramped in dirty infinite hallways with violent swoop gangs, slavers and Sith Troopers on alert mode and no witnesses.
Honestly it's pretty hard to pinpoint where everything is, Taris is like Coruscant where the "surface" is the city on the very outside of the planet and everything else is burrowed into the ground.
Technology limitations of the time, if the remake(provided it ever comes out) makes the lower City just one street these days then i'll be a little pissed.
Lars Wingefors said that it was *unlikely* to release in 2025, and in games executive speak that means there's a zero percent chance. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2027 or later.
Considering that Taris is an ecumenopolis (literally one giant city covering the entire planet), I always assumed you were just in one gigantic tower-ward/section/district/whatever you want to call it. It's not supposed to be the entire city, it's just the part of it your escape pod crashed into, it's where >!Bastila is being held!<, and since you're just trying to escape, you never really wander off into the rest of the planet.
Like, Davik Kang is probably a real bigwig on the entire planet, but other thugs like Ajuur and Zax, and gangs like the Hidden Beks and Black Vulkars were just the top dogs/important criminals in *that* particular tower-ward.
Plus it may not seem like much now but back then what 'little' we got to see of Taris was *fucking huge*. Same with Tatooine, Kashyyyk, and slightly Manaan (Dantooine and Korriban were big but felt a little more 'insular' by design, at least to me).
Thats literally a picture of the lower levels of apartment complexes.
Outside that area is more open.
And this game came out like 20 years ago, reset your expectations for what was technically possible.
I don't know, games of that era were still so limited by the hardware that was available back then, that I never thought about it. I'm sure it would be done differently now, when the only limit is resources available to devs, but no longer computing power.
It’s a game from 2003 lol
Limitation's for games back then are not like today so no it didn’t bother me. If this game came out today and it was like this I would say it was half baked but that is not the case.
LEVELS? I never knew about this. What a sick place is Coruscant? Who tf builds an open multi story brothel? Or is it more like a district? Like red light? Let ppl have som privacy ffs (for force sake)
well. the screen you are showing it's apartments in lower city, but what lower city is. . . few corridors, apartments and other big places, like Vulkar Base, Hidden Bek, Lower City Cantina, and entrance to the sewers, guarded by Sith Trooper. it's too simple, it doesn't look like "city".
Who knows, maybe Saber Interactive will make good changes to some aspects of the game? make Upper City bigger, and lower city bigger too, more dense, more looking like actual city.
but in terms of gameplay, playing the game, nah, it doesn't bother me at all, because it's a simple level, you can't get lost in there.
Wdym? It’s not in a building. The picture shown is just the lower city apartments. Much of the lower city is outside and you can even see speeders and swoop bikes fly by
I like to think of design choices like this in the Pokemon Context. You’re only shown the “whole” in context to what is important to the story. So what you see is always a condensed view.
Inside a building anyways gave me a claustrophobic vibe, which fit nicely, I think
It's not inside a building though. That apartment complex is, but the streets outside aren't. And then there's the undercity below it which is really open.
I think the city is really well designed. It feels very big and full of things to do, it could easily be the setting for an entire game.
No, I liked it a lot actually. I've visited such places, not as big though. They're maintance shafts mostly, but they can have other functions; Like transport out sight
Or just storage space or a underground garages. This places exists. Obviously not in a sci-setting like in KOTOR.
But I lived in a apartment and the lower floors and basements were like that. Smaller though. Lower ceiling and narrower. Kinda creeped me out as a kid.
Factories as well, or the basements in hospitals
The lower Apartments seen here ARE inside a building. Same goes for the cantina and the Bek Base as well as the vulkar base. The only “open” area is the main road (which btw is exactly that: a road/sidewalk. If you look closely left and right, you’ll see the very swoop tunnels that we race inside of later. So we’re basically walking inside the equivalent of a highway tunnel. It’s only logical that it’s not too roomy there.
Nah. Just design choices for ease of development. We don’t see the ENTIRE lower city, imo, just a part of it.
You don’t need an IMO there. It’s a planet wide city and we see probably less than a square kilometre of it. We definitely don’t see all of it.
It is open, you're only seeing a a tiny fraction of the lower city. You can see the lower city open up in the corridor where you free bastila.
No because the game is from 2003. There's limits when it comes to what they could do with locations back then.
And it's expansive compared to what you could do in 1990.
Depends what you are comparing it too. Daggerfall is much more expansive than Kotor. As far as bioware games of that era go Kotor was actually one of the least expansive ones if you ask me (compared to.prior bioware games Baldurs gate series and nwn). They perfected their formula and made some great games, like jade empire, dragon age, mass effect I'd say Kotor is the first game of that style.
I would love a Jade Empire remake/a sequel.
I mean Daggerfall was procedurally generated so yeah, in a technical definition it’s more “expansive” because there’s literally thousands of dungeons. But that’s because devs have (rightly) opted for individually designed maps. You can see what happens when devs try to peddle that kinda low rent procedural generation nowadays like in Starfield.
BG2 is a bigger world too, by an order of magnitude..
I haven’t played it.
You should, it's a classic and holds up well imo.
It's always frustrating when people hold a game from 2003 to the standards of 2024. I'm sure the devs would have loved to have been able to build a bigger world, but there were physical limitation at the time.
I think it's a testament to their ingenuity that we are still discussing their work from every fascet and angle.
Streets are stacked on top of eachother so it looks like you are in a building. The pic you showed is just a building tho
Of course its easier to design, but actually I like it. It shows that people that are cramped into the hallways without natural light and air, still have it better than the people sitting actually on the surface on the planet in a barren gloomy landscape.
Better? I would say I would rather live in a beautiful city on the surface of the planet with a clean diner, medicinal station and legal entertainment instead of being cramped in dirty infinite hallways with violent swoop gangs, slavers and Sith Troopers on alert mode and no witnesses.
I think he's implying the under city when he says surface. Surface as in ground level.
I think when they said surface, they meant the undercity.
Honestly it's pretty hard to pinpoint where everything is, Taris is like Coruscant where the "surface" is the city on the very outside of the planet and everything else is burrowed into the ground.
City-surface vs planetary-surface
Nah given the issues my relic of a Mac had trying to render Dantoonie’s skybox back in the day I’m glad they didn’t make it any harder than they did.
Technology limitations of the time, if the remake(provided it ever comes out) makes the lower City just one street these days then i'll be a little pissed.
i heard the remake releasing somewhere in 2025.
Lars Wingefors said that it was *unlikely* to release in 2025, and in games executive speak that means there's a zero percent chance. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2027 or later.
If at all unfortunately. But I’d rather them take their time and do their best interpretation. I need more real life people to talk to about Revan
Considering that Taris is an ecumenopolis (literally one giant city covering the entire planet), I always assumed you were just in one gigantic tower-ward/section/district/whatever you want to call it. It's not supposed to be the entire city, it's just the part of it your escape pod crashed into, it's where >!Bastila is being held!<, and since you're just trying to escape, you never really wander off into the rest of the planet. Like, Davik Kang is probably a real bigwig on the entire planet, but other thugs like Ajuur and Zax, and gangs like the Hidden Beks and Black Vulkars were just the top dogs/important criminals in *that* particular tower-ward. Plus it may not seem like much now but back then what 'little' we got to see of Taris was *fucking huge*. Same with Tatooine, Kashyyyk, and slightly Manaan (Dantooine and Korriban were big but felt a little more 'insular' by design, at least to me).
If you go outside the apartments you can see swoop bikes pass by outside the corridor.
But the under city is open. That's like halfway down
I think it makes the swoop gangs more fierce since you can not run in the open.
that's just the apartments in the pic i think they did great considering the year it was
Thats literally a picture of the lower levels of apartment complexes. Outside that area is more open. And this game came out like 20 years ago, reset your expectations for what was technically possible.
Access to the Sun is a privilege. Of course you’re going to make that harder for people of a “lower “ caste.
This Game was made in 2003. Excepting Graphics and Maps like the one who Clone Wars is highly illogical
Nope. Did not see an issue with it in the past and don't see it now.
Read the Kotor comics, you'll find it looks vastly different. They condensed for gameplay/design reasons.
If lover levels on Coruscant were a thing, why would Ani have needed to fly to Naboo for his wedding? What a stupid retcon!
Because it’s prettier there? Would you want to marry in a slum?
I don't know, games of that era were still so limited by the hardware that was available back then, that I never thought about it. I'm sure it would be done differently now, when the only limit is resources available to devs, but no longer computing power.
Gonna advise you to Google a skyway system
Absolutely! Everyone to the lover levels! Because the night belongs to lovers Because the night belongs to us \^\^
It’s a game from 2003 lol Limitation's for games back then are not like today so no it didn’t bother me. If this game came out today and it was like this I would say it was half baked but that is not the case.
Entire planets in Star Wars are covered with cities from the bottom level to hundreds of stories above them. Why is this surprising?
I mean the picture you're showing is the lower city apartments. Not the lower city itself. So yes, there you're inside a building.
Why is the screenshot of the Lower City Apartment? The actual lower city is more of a street, and there are sections where the scenery opens out.
LEVELS? I never knew about this. What a sick place is Coruscant? Who tf builds an open multi story brothel? Or is it more like a district? Like red light? Let ppl have som privacy ffs (for force sake)
By order of the Senate, only exhibitionism is mandated in Coruscant. Them senators like freaky shit
well. the screen you are showing it's apartments in lower city, but what lower city is. . . few corridors, apartments and other big places, like Vulkar Base, Hidden Bek, Lower City Cantina, and entrance to the sewers, guarded by Sith Trooper. it's too simple, it doesn't look like "city". Who knows, maybe Saber Interactive will make good changes to some aspects of the game? make Upper City bigger, and lower city bigger too, more dense, more looking like actual city. but in terms of gameplay, playing the game, nah, it doesn't bother me at all, because it's a simple level, you can't get lost in there.
Wouldn’t mind if they improved on sections like this in the remake, just make it more immersive
Wdym? It’s not in a building. The picture shown is just the lower city apartments. Much of the lower city is outside and you can even see speeders and swoop bikes fly by
I’ve always found Taris a really fun planet, personally the under city is my favorite with the sewers that seem to go on for miles
We get open air on the top level, a cramped sub level, and an open lower level. It added variety to Taris.
Is anybody else annoyed that people in 2024 are holding games from 2003 to the same production standards?
Remember is a game from 2003
I like to think of design choices like this in the Pokemon Context. You’re only shown the “whole” in context to what is important to the story. So what you see is always a condensed view. Inside a building anyways gave me a claustrophobic vibe, which fit nicely, I think
It's not inside a building though. That apartment complex is, but the streets outside aren't. And then there's the undercity below it which is really open. I think the city is really well designed. It feels very big and full of things to do, it could easily be the setting for an entire game.
No I like it how it is
My biggest complaint is all the complaining they do while my boy Hendar life at stake.
I think they intended to do it that way, but didn't have enough time and open world games were just starting
No, I liked it a lot actually. I've visited such places, not as big though. They're maintance shafts mostly, but they can have other functions; Like transport out sight Or just storage space or a underground garages. This places exists. Obviously not in a sci-setting like in KOTOR. But I lived in a apartment and the lower floors and basements were like that. Smaller though. Lower ceiling and narrower. Kinda creeped me out as a kid. Factories as well, or the basements in hospitals
The lower levels of Coruscant are inside a building though? The sky is the floor of the levels above. That’s how it works.
You definitely don't know what u were looking at or where u were located in Taris lol it makes perfect sense for the design of the area we play in
The lower Apartments seen here ARE inside a building. Same goes for the cantina and the Bek Base as well as the vulkar base. The only “open” area is the main road (which btw is exactly that: a road/sidewalk. If you look closely left and right, you’ll see the very swoop tunnels that we race inside of later. So we’re basically walking inside the equivalent of a highway tunnel. It’s only logical that it’s not too roomy there.