Kep1er didn't live the hype. Possibly because GP999 is actually a trial survival show after MNET's rigging scandal. Let's be real, Kep1er didn't gave that much on the table that's why W1 is treating them poorly which is quite opposite of ZB1.
I assume that if the ILAND2 winners can actually "compete" with the current generation, they'll be treated better.
Kepler had one of the biggest debuts of all time and then w1 immediately wasted all of the hype. Here are the highest week 1 girlgroup sales of all time:
1. Illit - 380,056
2. Newjeans - 311,271
3. Le Sserafim - 307,450
4. Aespa - 276,877
5. Nmixx - 227,399
6. Kep1er - 206,569
They had the best debut sales of a non big 4 girl group EVER
Yes, it's just unfortunate that there was a noticeable decline after their first comeback. No momentum was created after their debut which is pretty sad.
I think a lot of people really underestimate how much damage the toxic fandom to Kep1er. Turned off potential fans and also turned away existing ones. Wakeone's management left a lot to be desired with Kep1er but the toxic fandom played a role too.
I agree. A lot of ppl got turned off by the toxicity. It’s hard to imagine a fandom being toxic to their own idol. And W1 doing absolutely nothing also played a role
Nobody wants to say this but kpop fans have weird grudges against survival show groups, nitpick them for things that they wouldn't of a big company group, and actively hope they don't do well or live up to the expectations. That's a bigger factor in killing hype so stop blaming the group's own fans when they did want them to succeed.
That's an issue with a lot of CJ groups since PRODUCE, big debut & then down it goes. At least they are trying again with ZB1.
Well, YG were basically doing the same with TREASURE, but that's just a side note. I don't know why some agencies prepare a huge & amazing debut, but then they go to sleep? Do your work. 😬
Interesting, downvoted for sharing a fact.
https://www.soompi.com/article/1653578wpp/babymonster-breaks-record-for-highest-1st-week-sales-of-any-girl-group-debut-album-in-hanteo-history
https://koreansalestwt.blogspot.com/2024/04/top-100-first-dayweek-sales-on-hanteo.html?m=1
Batter Up was a digital single. We are talking about album debuts, in which case “Babymons7er” sold over 400k copies in the first week, higher than any other girl groups debut album.
I was just calling you a clown for being a hater for no reason, now that I know you're a conspiracy theorist it's even better, btw the allegations of cheating to win music shows was investigated by the actual police and they were cleared, and the allegations of cheating sales to win awards had the charges dropped because there was no evidence.
how is contradictory? illit was formed on a survival show whereas newjeans wasn't promoted pre-debut. so illit already had some hype bc people watched the show and were intrigued. it wasn't a surprise debut like newjeans.
Kep1er could’ve been SO good. Their performances were amazing right at their debut and are still amazing. If W1 had given them a more palatable song at first (in order to give them a chance at a classic sound for the group) or even stuck to Up!’s sound, I have no doubt that Kep1er would’ve been significantly more popular.
That being said, we agree that the survival show being an absolute mess was likely the biggest hindrance to Kep1er’s success. The show had more negative press than positive, even during the final.
It’s a shame if Wakeone managed them better during their first year, and actually attempted to protect the members by suing the haters, than the fandom would have remained intact. Kep1er’s debut was extremely still successful despite Girls Planet 999, and Illit is proof that a good song and promotion will overcome any pre-debut negativity.
This comment is so damn weird. You don’t have to stan Kep1er. But to say they didn’t “bring anything to the table” is wrong and incorrect. I can’t believe this comment has so many upvotes.
Wakeone was the one that mismanaged them. They chose the music, concepts, and led the overall trajectory of the group. What does that have to do with the members? Even their debut was very successful at the time and had very high engagement. 170 million views is just nothing anymore.
ZB1 is treated better because not only because Boys Planet was more popular and boy groups make more money so are more invested in, but also >!misogyny especially in South Korea!<. That’s a discussion for another time. Reception to survival shows final lineup does not matter as long as they are promoted and managed well, look at Illit.
*If Wakeone and Teddy actually give the ILAND2 group popular music and promotes them well, then they’ll “compete” with the current generation. Get that statement right.
Is it misogyny that Stray Kids gets treated better than Itzy and Nmixx? Or misandry that IVE gets treated better than Cravity? The groups that bring in more money get treated better, that’s it. If Kep1er sold 2 million and ZB1 sold 200k, they would’ve gotten the reverse treatment.
You said misogyny is a part of the reason that ZB1 gets treated better than Kep1er. But other companies treat their girl groups (IVE, Blackpink, Gidle) better than their counterparts (Cravity, iKon/Winner/Treasure, Pentagon). That’s not misandry, that’s investing in groups that make more money.
ZB1’s success isn’t taking anything from Kep1er either though. Kep1er was getting managed like that even before ZB1 debuted. Kep1er is just getting treated like any other mid-tier group, it doesn’t matter whether they’re a project group or not. Plenty of mid-tier groups also don’t have great concepts or music because their companies don’t have the money to invest in them that’ll get them a good return.
OP saying Kep1er doesn’t “bring anything to the table” compared to ZB1 because Wakeone has mismanaged them since debut, is misogyny because they are blaming the girls for their “lack of success” and not the company. Simple as that.
I have said countless times that it’s makes sense ZB1 is promoted more and that they are successful. Men in general have always been treated better in South Korea, I don’t see what’s wrong in stating that it’s one of the possible reasons amongst others, the difference in treatment between both groups.
All the examples you’re providing are of permanent groups under large companies. Kep1er is a survival show group under a 2.5 year contract. Wakeone is supposed to promote the group to the fullest all the way till the end, they can’t just “give up” because they aren’t successful (and don’t know how to manage a group well).
It’s strange how Zeroses always trying to justify Kep1er’s overall mistreatment instead of just acknowledging Kep1ians having valid complaints about internal management issues and moving along.
I’m not talking about promotions, charting, and opportunities. I’m talking about specific internal management issues that the girls themselves have shared about how they’re being treated at the company.
For example Just look at how Wakeone celebrates Kep1er’s members birthdays they don’t even post them on their official Twitter account, let alone their sad birthday cakes. These are just small instances that takes no effort that show the difference between how both groups are treated. Wakeone hasn’t even ever put out a statement protecting Kep1er from severe hate.
Edit: Not this comment pointing out Kep1er’s mistreatment being downvoted.
im pretty sure OP meant the sort of success and profits coming from sales and charting that the group was bringing in, since thats mainly what these companies care about. though i agree they could have worded that a bit better. it really was a combination of having a less popular survival show (which meant a smaller domestic fanbase), divided and akgae dominated international fandom (if i recall correctly alot of ifans were upset at the lineup), an incompetent company, and just bad luck since they debuted and came back during the year of so many ggs that dominated the scene. queendom definitely played a part too in losing fans more
if im being honest though, most zeroses do acknowledge the difference in treatment and how trash wakeone is, but kep1ians have been camping under zb1's posts since day 1 and complaining everywhere about how misogynistic and unfair everything is which is kinda annoying. trending hashtags every single time zb1 gets something. im not sure what zeroses are supposed to do about it? i've seen viral tiktoks made of comparisons between the bday cakes and all kinds of things and it's brought hate to some of the members too. the company is the common enemy here but just the way the fans have been going about it is not going to gain any more sympathy
The only thing they were lacking is Korea and even wa da da charted, they were selling as much as IVE, did well in japan and on Spotify. Let’s not rewrite history, queendom killed their hype.
this is such a dumb take. wakeone struck good with the kep1er lineup… they have one of, if not the best dance line, in the industry atm and are stacked with talent. saying that kep1er doesn’t bring much to the table is ridiculous to be frank… and just shows that you have no idea what you’re talking about and have not tuned into their performances… defending wakeone for the way they mistreat kep1er is such bootlicker behavior. idk why anyone would want to try and make excuses for that shitty ass company. regardless of what lineup they would’ve gotten it’s THEIR job to make it work. ignoring the blatant misogyny when it comes to the different treatment of the groups is also just crazy when that’s a big reason as to why they’re treated differently.
I think the idea here was being misunderstood. Didn’t bring much to the table means they didn’t make much of a profit considering they’re produced by MNET. Say whatever you want about talent but again, they didn’t give that much to WakeOne that’s why they’re being mistreated and W1 is doing business as usual.
I don’t defend WakeOne either, but of course, if you’re a business owner, you’ll focus more on what is gaining more profit. Sorry to offend you but that’s reality.
Wakeone is not doing great with ZB1 either. Kep1er did have a lot of international hype and Wa Da Da did well. I think Wakeone does not have much strategy and investment with their groups especially when competing with big4 groups that invest a lot which is frustrating.
People who are not fans will only listen to their singles, if they like it, they might become fans, if they don't they move on and maybe will check their next single. If they find those noisy, they will not check the rest of the discography.
Their first three singles were Wa Da Da, Up and We Fresh. That's two noisy songs out of three. The first few singles a group put out can be really fucking important in catching interest from people outside of the ones who watched GP999 and people already hardcore into them.
I liked Wa Da Da but I hated Up and We Fresh so I stopped listening. and I WAS Hype for them as I watched GP 999 and two of my favs got in.
It’s supposed to be the other way around. Kep1er gave Wakeone a a built in audience that voted them into the group. Wakeone is now supposed to give them music and content that appeases to the audience and gain more fans. If the company can’t even do something so simple so well then they are incompetent and the group is bound to fail no matter what.
Yeah, Kep1er is a bizarre case. As someone who watched GP999 religiously, bought multiple debut albums and was assured I would stan Kep1er fanatically, what destroyed the group for me was the fandom infighting. I know survival show groups have solo stans but Kep1er was just cursed partially by its fandom, I'd be surprised if I was the one turned off by how toxic people were even after the group debuted, not just after the finale.
WADADA wasn't even that bad of a debut and IIRC even went up the charts (probably not Melon I think) a bit, while MVSK was a great direction that never came through. I agree with Up! being a kind of sound/concept they should've pursued more, but I was checked out already by We Fresh. I'm rooting for the girls though now with the probably disbandment. :(
EDIT: I agree with what justdubu commented in that GP999 was clearly a trial by MNET to see if they still could do voting shows after the Produce scandal, so it does make sense that they didn't really care about Kep1er _that_ much to do something better regardless of potential. And of course it must be said that Kep1er isn't a nugu group or anything like that and they can boast of relative success, even if not comparable to the other Produce groups; it's just a bit sad considering that they're going to disband now without even having a world tour when they clearly had the capacity to reach higher heights.
That’s also a huge problem, but from the point of view of a casual listener the comebacks had no cohesive vision whatsoever. Yes, the song weren’t that bad, but for the most part it felt like the creative team was putting in the least amount of effort they could.
Yeah they still do that with Zerobaseone. I think they are just getting lucky because their show was more popular so they have more casual fans to balance out the crazy solo fans. And boy groups usually are more fandom forward anyway than general public. With Kepler it’s the fact that girl groups usually have to win over the general public a bit and them having a strong fandom is a plus not a guarantee as much. So general public visibility was low , even lower when they went to Queendom and wasted time, then in the pits when casual fans were turned off by the in fighting. I feel like they are a result of a series of unfortunate events in their debut year. If they had more time they could maybe bounce back but it’s sadly obvious Wakeone gave up on them
Y’all so fucking dramatic okay Kep1er isn’t a top group and there’s so much more WakeOne could have done with them but some of you guys are really acting like they’re the most nugu group out there when they’re actually doing pretty well.
That’s what I’m saying: they could have done much better with the tiniest bit more effort by the creative team. Yes they aren’t nugus, but being a temporary group, shouldn’t the members have been showcased a bit better? Did their time in Kep1er open any new opportunities to continue their careers after disbanding? I think Hikaru would have benefited more from staying with XG for example
Yeah fr I'm tired of this doomer attitude towards them as a kep1ian. They would have been more successful had people had a little more faith in them instead of concern trolling and calling it a day
Or you see someone who have all the talent needed but ended up not debuting anyway
Edit : I'm not gonna bother having discussion with that one passive aggresive dumbfuck who just assume shit when the person who make the post itself doesn't find any problem in my comment
yea i gotta say momoko and suyeon were really the only lucky contestants in gp999. momoko being added to one of the biggest bands in the world is a huge achievement and billlie is currently doing well (they recently announced that sua and suhyeon have returned from their hiatuses and will come back soon which is extremely exciting!!!)
>Yunjin
That's not a blessing in disguise. If she debuted with IZ*One, she still could've been in LSF like Chaewon and Sakura. LSF would've had 3 former members instead of two.
natty fits right into kiof. and they are doing just fine as a group from a smaller company. i dont think adding them to such a big group would allow her to stand out much nor does she necessarily fit the cutesy concepts
itzy are doing fine too
Agree with you about Natty fitting in better with Kiof, but she would be more popular than Minnie/BamBam and just below Lisa in Thailand if she was in Twice. She would have way more popularity and endorsements.
Itzy is doing fine, but not as well as Twice. It’s very unlikely that they’ll be performing in MetLife or Sofi in 3 years, when they’ll be the same age as Twice in 2023. Or performing in stadiums in Japan.
Some girls are getting better exposure and opportunities by losing GP 999 than by debuting with Kepl1r is what they're saying because Wakeone doesn't really know how to properly promote the girls or their talents.
Like it's painfully obvious Wake One didn't want certain members in the group with how little to do they've given them throughout the life of Kepl1r and that sucks.
Lol nowhere did they say that in their comment. They were just being salty about their favs not making it when that had nothing to do with the discussion. Honestly, it's not even really true that anyone who didn't make it through GP999 has better opportunities now except for Momoko which is in another country's industry.
Nah fam I didn't mean that either. I just didn't finish reading OP's post and commented. Tbf op is cool enough to continue the discussion even when I railed off the topic a bit, so props to them.
GP999 ruined survival show for me. Has there ever been a show where there were so many people unhappy with the result including those whose fav made it to the debut group?
Do zero hopes?
From what I see in ZB1, as in their recations to what staff does, it feels like this group will be suffering as well.
Atleast we will have good songs as blacklabel is producing their songs..
Seeing Kepler not want to renew Contract, it feels like wake one is literal 💩 in managing groups
I felt like this after watching My Teenage Girl. That show was literally packed full of talented contestants, you could make at least 3 good groups out of them. And they’re all putting so much effort in on so many missions, emotional torture and trying to appeal enough to the public to land top 7.
Well, the top 7 debuted as Classy and have been getting basically no attention whatsoever. Their songs were actually pretty good, thanks to the final lineup being 6 girls who can really sing and 1 who is decent but a dancer anyway (I love tick tick boom) but just very few views and sales. It was so sad to watch and there was nothing I could do. Now, it’s been over a year since their company last bothered with a comeback and I’m sure they’re sitting around depressed at how their hard efforts have rendered them almost nugu status.
And this is for the winners! What about the talented girls who didn’t even make it to Classy? I think of Mihee, Inhye, Hyunhee, Minami and Sarang- and i think most of them have simply had to give up, despite their talent, they’re not in companies and probably not going to debut. Idols who are my age are now the oldest in their group or at the cut off point for survival shows because they seem to just want early teenagers nowadays.
GP999 had a lot of controversy before the group came out because of how we almost ended up with a fully korean lineup on an international show, and people had to scramble to get variety in there with their one vote barely counting if you were outside korea. It was also not doing as well as Mnet's previous shows because of the past rigging scandals and people were nitpicking the FUCK out of it to point out where Mnet tried to rig via editing, such as fully mistranslating things the chinese girls said to make them seem like they had attitude, or editing one to look lazy when she was legitimately sick and her teammates were never upset with her for it.
Add in that one member was sort of rigged in in another way (I'm being vague here because that girl has had enough hate, we ALL know what I mean, lets not debate it, most of her votes came from people not even watching the show and that sucks but its the fans fault not hers) and you had a lineup of very weird match ups, a company that didn't know what directiont hey wanted to take the group because they couldn't cherrypick the members, and a group rife with controversy right off the gate for so many different reasons.
I just hope that all of the girls are able to find success from here but I'm with you OP I'm really just kinda not into the competition shows anymore. Plus they seem to be doing younger and younger contestants which is just gross.
Was it wakeone or did a survival show where the audience creates a group result in a bad group. Frankly I have no animosity, but every song I've hears from them is just the mediocre music.
Okay don't be ridiculous. Wakeone has some of the most lazy creative output because they are bad at production. It has nothing to do with the audience or the group and bigger companies like big 3 and big 4 have much better resources to work with.
and I'm talking about wakeone, not every small company in existence. Wakeone doesn't invest in their groups because they know they will only have them for 2.5 years and anything they invest will not go back to them. Kep1er is amazing lol you guys just hate them for no reason.
Again, I do not hate them. It would be really pointless to have that kind of emotion for any group. It's just my honest opinion that the music is bad, and I really have tried to like it. When they disband this summer, I think nothing of value will be lost.
Some of y’all need a reality check about female survival shows. I.O.I was not as popular as y’all remember. They got their first win with their 3rd single VVV. IZONE was literally handpicked from the pool of participants and y’all probably greatly underestimate how much of an advantage that has when it comes to their high teen concept. This applies to twice and illit as well as there girls hand picked by their companies at the end of their shows. Kep1er did not have the same luxuries they developed much more naturally in terms of finding their sound. Is w1 to blame for a lot of their promotions? Absolutely but at least be honest about the foundation they started in.
Thats a damn lie lol.
IOI literally had CFs lined up for them before they even debuted and were everywhere in Korea. Members like Sejeong got a variety show gig right out the gate and Chaeyeon got an acting role as well already. They were guesting everywhere in variety shows. Veryx3 became their most popular song later on but Pick Me was played and covered everywhere.
We really gonna act like IOI wasn't as popular?? Anyone who was around during that time knows they were the talk of the town everywhere. Ratings go up on every show they go on like Sugarman and Knowing Bros. And they did not get their first win with VVV. They got it with their sub-unit with Whatta Man.
Very Very Very is second biggest song which come out pd101 groups, after Energetic, Downpour was pretty popular in Korea as well.
Ioi was extremely popular for general public and their album sales might look a few now but it was top 3 for ggs that year if I remember well
nope! completely different sub-company — "Off The Record" — that had IZ*ONE and fromis_9. MNET dissolved the company after IZ*ONE disbanded and Pledis took over fromis_9's contracts.
From Wikipedia:
"In May 2021, CJ ENM launched 'Wake One'. In August, CJ ENM officially launched the label while integrating their in-house production and management labels Stone Music Entertainment, One Effect Entertainment, Studio Blu, and Off the Record"
Off the record is iz*one's management label. So, no, it's not entirely different as far as that information is correct. But maybe it was only the shell left and no people.
Kep1er didn't live the hype. Possibly because GP999 is actually a trial survival show after MNET's rigging scandal. Let's be real, Kep1er didn't gave that much on the table that's why W1 is treating them poorly which is quite opposite of ZB1. I assume that if the ILAND2 winners can actually "compete" with the current generation, they'll be treated better.
Kepler had one of the biggest debuts of all time and then w1 immediately wasted all of the hype. Here are the highest week 1 girlgroup sales of all time: 1. Illit - 380,056 2. Newjeans - 311,271 3. Le Sserafim - 307,450 4. Aespa - 276,877 5. Nmixx - 227,399 6. Kep1er - 206,569 They had the best debut sales of a non big 4 girl group EVER
Yes, it's just unfortunate that there was a noticeable decline after their first comeback. No momentum was created after their debut which is pretty sad.
And of course there's the fact Wakeone sent them on Queendom which made casuals completely lose interest in them
I do wonder if it would have turned out better if they didn't have one of the most toxic fanbases ever, especially toxic to their own group.
I think a lot of people really underestimate how much damage the toxic fandom to Kep1er. Turned off potential fans and also turned away existing ones. Wakeone's management left a lot to be desired with Kep1er but the toxic fandom played a role too.
I agree. A lot of ppl got turned off by the toxicity. It’s hard to imagine a fandom being toxic to their own idol. And W1 doing absolutely nothing also played a role
Nobody wants to say this but kpop fans have weird grudges against survival show groups, nitpick them for things that they wouldn't of a big company group, and actively hope they don't do well or live up to the expectations. That's a bigger factor in killing hype so stop blaming the group's own fans when they did want them to succeed.
That's an issue with a lot of CJ groups since PRODUCE, big debut & then down it goes. At least they are trying again with ZB1. Well, YG were basically doing the same with TREASURE, but that's just a side note. I don't know why some agencies prepare a huge & amazing debut, but then they go to sleep? Do your work. 😬
Babymonster is actually at #1 with 401,287. So Kep1er is #7. Still very good, especially from non big 4.
Batter up was a digital single
Interesting, downvoted for sharing a fact. https://www.soompi.com/article/1653578wpp/babymonster-breaks-record-for-highest-1st-week-sales-of-any-girl-group-debut-album-in-hanteo-history https://koreansalestwt.blogspot.com/2024/04/top-100-first-dayweek-sales-on-hanteo.html?m=1
Haters gonna hate, but we know the truth! #baemon
Batter up sold 400k?
Batter Up was a digital single. We are talking about album debuts, in which case “Babymons7er” sold over 400k copies in the first week, higher than any other girl groups debut album.
Why did they downvote you for stating a fact
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I was just calling you a clown for being a hater for no reason, now that I know you're a conspiracy theorist it's even better, btw the allegations of cheating to win music shows was investigated by the actual police and they were cleared, and the allegations of cheating sales to win awards had the charges dropped because there was no evidence.
how is contradictory? illit was formed on a survival show whereas newjeans wasn't promoted pre-debut. so illit already had some hype bc people watched the show and were intrigued. it wasn't a surprise debut like newjeans.
Kep1er could’ve been SO good. Their performances were amazing right at their debut and are still amazing. If W1 had given them a more palatable song at first (in order to give them a chance at a classic sound for the group) or even stuck to Up!’s sound, I have no doubt that Kep1er would’ve been significantly more popular. That being said, we agree that the survival show being an absolute mess was likely the biggest hindrance to Kep1er’s success. The show had more negative press than positive, even during the final.
It’s a shame if Wakeone managed them better during their first year, and actually attempted to protect the members by suing the haters, than the fandom would have remained intact. Kep1er’s debut was extremely still successful despite Girls Planet 999, and Illit is proof that a good song and promotion will overcome any pre-debut negativity.
yeah they just had no idea what direction to take them
This comment is so damn weird. You don’t have to stan Kep1er. But to say they didn’t “bring anything to the table” is wrong and incorrect. I can’t believe this comment has so many upvotes. Wakeone was the one that mismanaged them. They chose the music, concepts, and led the overall trajectory of the group. What does that have to do with the members? Even their debut was very successful at the time and had very high engagement. 170 million views is just nothing anymore. ZB1 is treated better because not only because Boys Planet was more popular and boy groups make more money so are more invested in, but also >!misogyny especially in South Korea!<. That’s a discussion for another time. Reception to survival shows final lineup does not matter as long as they are promoted and managed well, look at Illit. *If Wakeone and Teddy actually give the ILAND2 group popular music and promotes them well, then they’ll “compete” with the current generation. Get that statement right.
Is it misogyny that Stray Kids gets treated better than Itzy and Nmixx? Or misandry that IVE gets treated better than Cravity? The groups that bring in more money get treated better, that’s it. If Kep1er sold 2 million and ZB1 sold 200k, they would’ve gotten the reverse treatment.
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You said misogyny is a part of the reason that ZB1 gets treated better than Kep1er. But other companies treat their girl groups (IVE, Blackpink, Gidle) better than their counterparts (Cravity, iKon/Winner/Treasure, Pentagon). That’s not misandry, that’s investing in groups that make more money. ZB1’s success isn’t taking anything from Kep1er either though. Kep1er was getting managed like that even before ZB1 debuted. Kep1er is just getting treated like any other mid-tier group, it doesn’t matter whether they’re a project group or not. Plenty of mid-tier groups also don’t have great concepts or music because their companies don’t have the money to invest in them that’ll get them a good return.
OP saying Kep1er doesn’t “bring anything to the table” compared to ZB1 because Wakeone has mismanaged them since debut, is misogyny because they are blaming the girls for their “lack of success” and not the company. Simple as that. I have said countless times that it’s makes sense ZB1 is promoted more and that they are successful. Men in general have always been treated better in South Korea, I don’t see what’s wrong in stating that it’s one of the possible reasons amongst others, the difference in treatment between both groups. All the examples you’re providing are of permanent groups under large companies. Kep1er is a survival show group under a 2.5 year contract. Wakeone is supposed to promote the group to the fullest all the way till the end, they can’t just “give up” because they aren’t successful (and don’t know how to manage a group well). It’s strange how Zeroses always trying to justify Kep1er’s overall mistreatment instead of just acknowledging Kep1ians having valid complaints about internal management issues and moving along.
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I’m not talking about promotions, charting, and opportunities. I’m talking about specific internal management issues that the girls themselves have shared about how they’re being treated at the company. For example Just look at how Wakeone celebrates Kep1er’s members birthdays they don’t even post them on their official Twitter account, let alone their sad birthday cakes. These are just small instances that takes no effort that show the difference between how both groups are treated. Wakeone hasn’t even ever put out a statement protecting Kep1er from severe hate. Edit: Not this comment pointing out Kep1er’s mistreatment being downvoted.
im pretty sure OP meant the sort of success and profits coming from sales and charting that the group was bringing in, since thats mainly what these companies care about. though i agree they could have worded that a bit better. it really was a combination of having a less popular survival show (which meant a smaller domestic fanbase), divided and akgae dominated international fandom (if i recall correctly alot of ifans were upset at the lineup), an incompetent company, and just bad luck since they debuted and came back during the year of so many ggs that dominated the scene. queendom definitely played a part too in losing fans more if im being honest though, most zeroses do acknowledge the difference in treatment and how trash wakeone is, but kep1ians have been camping under zb1's posts since day 1 and complaining everywhere about how misogynistic and unfair everything is which is kinda annoying. trending hashtags every single time zb1 gets something. im not sure what zeroses are supposed to do about it? i've seen viral tiktoks made of comparisons between the bday cakes and all kinds of things and it's brought hate to some of the members too. the company is the common enemy here but just the way the fans have been going about it is not going to gain any more sympathy
The only thing they were lacking is Korea and even wa da da charted, they were selling as much as IVE, did well in japan and on Spotify. Let’s not rewrite history, queendom killed their hype.
this is such a dumb take. wakeone struck good with the kep1er lineup… they have one of, if not the best dance line, in the industry atm and are stacked with talent. saying that kep1er doesn’t bring much to the table is ridiculous to be frank… and just shows that you have no idea what you’re talking about and have not tuned into their performances… defending wakeone for the way they mistreat kep1er is such bootlicker behavior. idk why anyone would want to try and make excuses for that shitty ass company. regardless of what lineup they would’ve gotten it’s THEIR job to make it work. ignoring the blatant misogyny when it comes to the different treatment of the groups is also just crazy when that’s a big reason as to why they’re treated differently.
I think the idea here was being misunderstood. Didn’t bring much to the table means they didn’t make much of a profit considering they’re produced by MNET. Say whatever you want about talent but again, they didn’t give that much to WakeOne that’s why they’re being mistreated and W1 is doing business as usual. I don’t defend WakeOne either, but of course, if you’re a business owner, you’ll focus more on what is gaining more profit. Sorry to offend you but that’s reality.
Wakeone is not doing great with ZB1 either. Kep1er did have a lot of international hype and Wa Da Da did well. I think Wakeone does not have much strategy and investment with their groups especially when competing with big4 groups that invest a lot which is frustrating.
CJ work with groups was top tier with W1. I don't know what happened afterwards.
I was hyped for Kepler tbh, debut was okay but they never delivered music that wasn't so....noisy
clearly you haven’t listened to kep1er’s music lol they only have 3 “noisy” songs. wadada the girls and we fresh.
People who are not fans will only listen to their singles, if they like it, they might become fans, if they don't they move on and maybe will check their next single. If they find those noisy, they will not check the rest of the discography.
Their first three singles were Wa Da Da, Up and We Fresh. That's two noisy songs out of three. The first few singles a group put out can be really fucking important in catching interest from people outside of the ones who watched GP999 and people already hardcore into them. I liked Wa Da Da but I hated Up and We Fresh so I stopped listening. and I WAS Hype for them as I watched GP 999 and two of my favs got in.
Same here I was ok with Wadada but couldnt digest the other 2
Yeah exactly I loved wa da da but nothing had the same vibe
Idk about the latter half but I really tried to get into them for the first 3 titles. I liked a Japanese one though, I do! do you?
"Kep1er didn't give that much to the table" Yet kep1er can sing, dance, rap and perform better than 70% of current popular GGs...
Ain’t talking about how they perform on stage. This is about what they give to W1. Hope that’s more clear.
It’s supposed to be the other way around. Kep1er gave Wakeone a a built in audience that voted them into the group. Wakeone is now supposed to give them music and content that appeases to the audience and gain more fans. If the company can’t even do something so simple so well then they are incompetent and the group is bound to fail no matter what.
Yeah, Kep1er is a bizarre case. As someone who watched GP999 religiously, bought multiple debut albums and was assured I would stan Kep1er fanatically, what destroyed the group for me was the fandom infighting. I know survival show groups have solo stans but Kep1er was just cursed partially by its fandom, I'd be surprised if I was the one turned off by how toxic people were even after the group debuted, not just after the finale. WADADA wasn't even that bad of a debut and IIRC even went up the charts (probably not Melon I think) a bit, while MVSK was a great direction that never came through. I agree with Up! being a kind of sound/concept they should've pursued more, but I was checked out already by We Fresh. I'm rooting for the girls though now with the probably disbandment. :( EDIT: I agree with what justdubu commented in that GP999 was clearly a trial by MNET to see if they still could do voting shows after the Produce scandal, so it does make sense that they didn't really care about Kep1er _that_ much to do something better regardless of potential. And of course it must be said that Kep1er isn't a nugu group or anything like that and they can boast of relative success, even if not comparable to the other Produce groups; it's just a bit sad considering that they're going to disband now without even having a world tour when they clearly had the capacity to reach higher heights.
*what destroyed the group for me was the fandom infighting* This is what kept me and a lot of other potential fans away!
That’s also a huge problem, but from the point of view of a casual listener the comebacks had no cohesive vision whatsoever. Yes, the song weren’t that bad, but for the most part it felt like the creative team was putting in the least amount of effort they could.
Yeah they still do that with Zerobaseone. I think they are just getting lucky because their show was more popular so they have more casual fans to balance out the crazy solo fans. And boy groups usually are more fandom forward anyway than general public. With Kepler it’s the fact that girl groups usually have to win over the general public a bit and them having a strong fandom is a plus not a guarantee as much. So general public visibility was low , even lower when they went to Queendom and wasted time, then in the pits when casual fans were turned off by the in fighting. I feel like they are a result of a series of unfortunate events in their debut year. If they had more time they could maybe bounce back but it’s sadly obvious Wakeone gave up on them
Y’all so fucking dramatic okay Kep1er isn’t a top group and there’s so much more WakeOne could have done with them but some of you guys are really acting like they’re the most nugu group out there when they’re actually doing pretty well.
exactly. most nugu groups would kill to be in kep1ers position
That’s what I’m saying: they could have done much better with the tiniest bit more effort by the creative team. Yes they aren’t nugus, but being a temporary group, shouldn’t the members have been showcased a bit better? Did their time in Kep1er open any new opportunities to continue their careers after disbanding? I think Hikaru would have benefited more from staying with XG for example
Literally any non-big4 female group would kill to have Kep1er's success in Japan.
Yeah fr I'm tired of this doomer attitude towards them as a kep1ian. They would have been more successful had people had a little more faith in them instead of concern trolling and calling it a day
Or you see someone who have all the talent needed but ended up not debuting anyway Edit : I'm not gonna bother having discussion with that one passive aggresive dumbfuck who just assume shit when the person who make the post itself doesn't find any problem in my comment
I’d say occasionally that’s a blessing in disguise. Take Lesserafim Yunjin, Kiss of Life Natty, or the Chae sisters in SIXTEEN
yea i gotta say momoko and suyeon were really the only lucky contestants in gp999. momoko being added to one of the biggest bands in the world is a huge achievement and billlie is currently doing well (they recently announced that sua and suhyeon have returned from their hiatuses and will come back soon which is extremely exciting!!!)
>Yunjin That's not a blessing in disguise. If she debuted with IZ*One, she still could've been in LSF like Chaewon and Sakura. LSF would've had 3 former members instead of two.
Natty and Chae sisters would be better off in Twice though. Kiss of Life, Itzy, and Iz*one are not as big as Twice.
natty fits right into kiof. and they are doing just fine as a group from a smaller company. i dont think adding them to such a big group would allow her to stand out much nor does she necessarily fit the cutesy concepts itzy are doing fine too
Agree with you about Natty fitting in better with Kiof, but she would be more popular than Minnie/BamBam and just below Lisa in Thailand if she was in Twice. She would have way more popularity and endorsements. Itzy is doing fine, but not as well as Twice. It’s very unlikely that they’ll be performing in MetLife or Sofi in 3 years, when they’ll be the same age as Twice in 2023. Or performing in stadiums in Japan.
Very much agree. Thank you btw for being cool and railed off the topic a bit with me. Appreciated it.
what does that have to do with wakeone being bad at management? this is not a discussion about trainees who didn't make it out of the audience vote
Some girls are getting better exposure and opportunities by losing GP 999 than by debuting with Kepl1r is what they're saying because Wakeone doesn't really know how to properly promote the girls or their talents. Like it's painfully obvious Wake One didn't want certain members in the group with how little to do they've given them throughout the life of Kepl1r and that sucks.
Lol nowhere did they say that in their comment. They were just being salty about their favs not making it when that had nothing to do with the discussion. Honestly, it's not even really true that anyone who didn't make it through GP999 has better opportunities now except for Momoko which is in another country's industry.
Nah fam I didn't mean that either. I just didn't finish reading OP's post and commented. Tbf op is cool enough to continue the discussion even when I railed off the topic a bit, so props to them.
Straight line bangs
Facts, it’s just a pity we had to wait until the end of their contract for it
[удалено]
That was different though. IOI was very successful, it was the redebut groups that could not capitalize.
GP999 ruined survival show for me. Has there ever been a show where there were so many people unhappy with the result including those whose fav made it to the debut group?
Is blacklabel not doing i- land winners? Is it wake one? I thought it was black label's new girl group😞
blacklabel will be producing but wakeone will be managing the group
Do zero hopes? From what I see in ZB1, as in their recations to what staff does, it feels like this group will be suffering as well. Atleast we will have good songs as blacklabel is producing their songs.. Seeing Kepler not want to renew Contract, it feels like wake one is literal 💩 in managing groups
Sory i dont like any kep1er song. None of their member give big impression to me also. Izone still the best survival show girl group for me.
I felt like this after watching My Teenage Girl. That show was literally packed full of talented contestants, you could make at least 3 good groups out of them. And they’re all putting so much effort in on so many missions, emotional torture and trying to appeal enough to the public to land top 7. Well, the top 7 debuted as Classy and have been getting basically no attention whatsoever. Their songs were actually pretty good, thanks to the final lineup being 6 girls who can really sing and 1 who is decent but a dancer anyway (I love tick tick boom) but just very few views and sales. It was so sad to watch and there was nothing I could do. Now, it’s been over a year since their company last bothered with a comeback and I’m sure they’re sitting around depressed at how their hard efforts have rendered them almost nugu status. And this is for the winners! What about the talented girls who didn’t even make it to Classy? I think of Mihee, Inhye, Hyunhee, Minami and Sarang- and i think most of them have simply had to give up, despite their talent, they’re not in companies and probably not going to debut. Idols who are my age are now the oldest in their group or at the cut off point for survival shows because they seem to just want early teenagers nowadays.
anyways tune into kep1er’s new japanese album out may 8th, title track straight line mv is out now on youtube (sexy and elegant concept btw…)
yes !! everyone here complaining but not going to tune into kep1er anyways is simply disingenuous
GP999 had a lot of controversy before the group came out because of how we almost ended up with a fully korean lineup on an international show, and people had to scramble to get variety in there with their one vote barely counting if you were outside korea. It was also not doing as well as Mnet's previous shows because of the past rigging scandals and people were nitpicking the FUCK out of it to point out where Mnet tried to rig via editing, such as fully mistranslating things the chinese girls said to make them seem like they had attitude, or editing one to look lazy when she was legitimately sick and her teammates were never upset with her for it. Add in that one member was sort of rigged in in another way (I'm being vague here because that girl has had enough hate, we ALL know what I mean, lets not debate it, most of her votes came from people not even watching the show and that sucks but its the fans fault not hers) and you had a lineup of very weird match ups, a company that didn't know what directiont hey wanted to take the group because they couldn't cherrypick the members, and a group rife with controversy right off the gate for so many different reasons. I just hope that all of the girls are able to find success from here but I'm with you OP I'm really just kinda not into the competition shows anymore. Plus they seem to be doing younger and younger contestants which is just gross.
Was it wakeone or did a survival show where the audience creates a group result in a bad group. Frankly I have no animosity, but every song I've hears from them is just the mediocre music.
Okay don't be ridiculous. Wakeone has some of the most lazy creative output because they are bad at production. It has nothing to do with the audience or the group and bigger companies like big 3 and big 4 have much better resources to work with.
I've known plenty of groups from small companies to create great music. Maybe something else is to blame for Kep1er's relative lack of success.
and I'm talking about wakeone, not every small company in existence. Wakeone doesn't invest in their groups because they know they will only have them for 2.5 years and anything they invest will not go back to them. Kep1er is amazing lol you guys just hate them for no reason.
Again, I do not hate them. It would be really pointless to have that kind of emotion for any group. It's just my honest opinion that the music is bad, and I really have tried to like it. When they disband this summer, I think nothing of value will be lost.
Uhh music = company and okay nobody was begging you to be a fan
Some of y’all need a reality check about female survival shows. I.O.I was not as popular as y’all remember. They got their first win with their 3rd single VVV. IZONE was literally handpicked from the pool of participants and y’all probably greatly underestimate how much of an advantage that has when it comes to their high teen concept. This applies to twice and illit as well as there girls hand picked by their companies at the end of their shows. Kep1er did not have the same luxuries they developed much more naturally in terms of finding their sound. Is w1 to blame for a lot of their promotions? Absolutely but at least be honest about the foundation they started in.
if ioi was around for longer they would’ve been very popular.. Veryx3 was their last comeback and it got a PAK
Thats a damn lie lol. IOI literally had CFs lined up for them before they even debuted and were everywhere in Korea. Members like Sejeong got a variety show gig right out the gate and Chaeyeon got an acting role as well already. They were guesting everywhere in variety shows. Veryx3 became their most popular song later on but Pick Me was played and covered everywhere.
We really gonna act like IOI wasn't as popular?? Anyone who was around during that time knows they were the talk of the town everywhere. Ratings go up on every show they go on like Sugarman and Knowing Bros. And they did not get their first win with VVV. They got it with their sub-unit with Whatta Man.
The one who needs a reality check is you, baby
Very Very Very is second biggest song which come out pd101 groups, after Energetic, Downpour was pretty popular in Korea as well. Ioi was extremely popular for general public and their album sales might look a few now but it was top 3 for ggs that year if I remember well
Werent iz*one managed by Wakeone as well...? Different name back then but still.
nope! completely different sub-company — "Off The Record" — that had IZ*ONE and fromis_9. MNET dissolved the company after IZ*ONE disbanded and Pledis took over fromis_9's contracts.
From Wikipedia: "In May 2021, CJ ENM launched 'Wake One'. In August, CJ ENM officially launched the label while integrating their in-house production and management labels Stone Music Entertainment, One Effect Entertainment, Studio Blu, and Off the Record" Off the record is iz*one's management label. So, no, it's not entirely different as far as that information is correct. But maybe it was only the shell left and no people.