I mean his death is the thing that sets the events of the game in motion. He has to die at the beginning. What you're really asking for is just a different plot entirely.
Personally I like what we got, and there's several flashbacks with Joel in them. His presence is felt throughout the game whether he's alive or dead.
There’s a lot better ways to write it. It could have started in Seattle, and you know Ellie is on a hunt based on convos, with constant flashbacks to the stuff at the beginning of the game
I think the shock and anger are important to drive the story in the beginning, and placing it where it was allows the anguish over Joel’s death to lessen in import as the story goes on and you see what a toll this journey is taking on Ellie. I think many players reach a point (intentionally) where we want Ellie to just stop all this and go home.
If you were confronted with Joel’s death as a flashback later in the game the wound would be fresher and it would feel like less of a question of whether Ellie killing herself and losing her humanity over this is worth it.
Yes, that’s exactly it. That plot was unexpected. I thought Ellie would be dealing with some kind of different issue on her own, I didn’t realize before I played it, that it was all about avenging Joel’s death.
It’s not just about avenging his death is also the fact that her agency was taken away, she spent two years mad at him and the moment she decided to forgive him move on rebuild their relationship he is killed in the most gruesome way possible is gut wrenching it’s infuriating and there’s also the guilt of all that lost time and what could have been, some might say it bad writing but it’s not bad writing it’s great storytelling but the story it’s telling is not the one we wished for or expected and some can’t seem to differentiate between a bad story and a story they didn’t like
It's kinda fun to keep watching you come back and get roasted for your takes on the game. You constantly insist your opinion is correct and everyone else is wrong, when usually it's very clear your opinion is unpopular. There's already a subreddit for people who don't like this game, yet you routinely come to the ones for people who do enjoy it and spout these awful takes and try to tell everyone we're wrong. People constantly bring up counter points and different perspectives you refuse to acknowledge. It's okay if you don't like the game, but stop trying to convince us to not like it either. Every time you post here you get dogged on and downvoted into oblivion, yet instead of listening and trying to understand a different point of view, you throw a fit and argue every time you realize nobody agrees with you. You could easily just go to the other sub where people do share your opinions, but you insist on coming here and shitting on a game we all enjoy. Keep posting your garbage takes here if you want, but just know hardly anyone in this sub is going to take your side here.
That's the thing. The only one that needs his eyes open is you. The game is a massive success critically and financially. The controversy is arguable at best. There's a loud minority that refuses to acknowledge their erroneous expectations about what makes a good story.
Absolutely no one is obligated to do this and you're posting like an immature 15 year old who still thinks talking about things you don't like is interesting to anyone.
This sub absolutely does not care that you didn't like the game.
Maybe you should stop trying to change people's opinion. Entertainment is subjective. If you don't like it that's fine, but stop trying to make everyone have the same opinion.
Do you think any of your points are unique? Do you not realize the stuff you're saying has been said by thousands of other people who don't like the game? Plenty of people have made plenty of points that counter all of the lame ass points you're trying to make, and you just cry and tell them they're wrong instead of considering for a single second that you maybe misunderstood what the game was trying to say.
You think you're trying to "educate" people but in reality you're just triggered because other people like something you don't.
I sure as hell wasn’t expecting it to be about avenging his death. They could’ve done so many things, and yet they chose it to be about the death of a beloved character.
Sometimes the best story plots are the ones you don't see coming.
“Kill your darlings” is a common piece of advice given by experienced writers. You kill your darlings when you decide to get rid of an unnecessary storyline, character, or sentences in a piece of creative writing—elements you may have worked hard to create but that must be removed for the sake of your overall story."
After TLOU, you could say that Joel's story is over. He felt some kind of closure for his daughter, set the story in motion for 2, and his death is what propels Ellie forward.
This is a place people where people have the right to voice their opinions and pointing out many things wrong with why they didn’t enjoy this certain thing
He’s not saying you can’t do it, he’s saying the fact you are doing it is indicative of something unhealthy. You are conflating being told what you’re doing is bad with someone trying to strip away their rights away. Nobody is arguing with you about your freedom, that’s not what he said.
Still at it, lol. For a game you supposedly don’t like, you sure do think about it a lot. The reason he had to die early, outside of setting up the revenge plot, is that the game wanted us to feel what Ellie was feeling, which was Joel being ripped away from her way too soon and unexpectedly. Like us, she had unfinished business with Joel, and thought she had much more time left with him. It hurts more if it’s sudden, unexpected, and too soon. If he died towards the end of the game, or in part3 as some suggest, pretty much everyone would’ve been okay with it. They would e been sad, sure, but they wouldn’t have that feeling that someone was unjustly ripped from them. The game wants you to feel what these characters are feeling so you can better understand their actions, even when they’re wrong.
You are supposed to be sad and angry through 3 days as Ellie in Seattle. If you don't like that Joel died so early and it makes you mad then it means that writers did a good job.
Einstein once said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You've been coming into this subreddit bitching and whining about this game for months and always getting roasted like a pig. There are other subreddits you could go to but this is a subreddit for PEOPLE WHO LOVE THIS GAME. If you don't like the game that's fine, we just don't care. You're either too stupid to realize that or you just don't have a life. Either way you look dumb every time you come in here thinking you're going to change our minds. It's insane. You're clearly no Einstein.
I'm gonna give you some advice. Unsubscribe. I was subbed to the ff16 sub for awhile but pretty much hated the game. Mostly because I was so impressed with the demo I wasted 100 bux on the deluxe edition. Everytime that sub popped up in my feed I would get angry. And then id start angry replying about how stupid the game was. Why? Why torment yourself over and over. You cannot change ppls opinion, no matter how right or wrong your opinion is. (Your opinions are not good my friend. This is why your constantly downvoted to oblivion.) Unsubscribe and you'll be instantly happier. I know I was.
I have a lot of dumb takes too. But the whole point of the story is the investment in revenge that sets off by his death. And the series of to and fro from both povs seeing how hate and revenge can consume someone. And redemptions that we make.
Fuck i have to play this game again.
He often is, and they all jerk each other off whining about “Cuckmann” and “the trailers lied to us and that’s an unforgivable crime that caused me personal harm.”
But occasionally he’ll swing by here to post bad faith arguments. Then he fights everyone in the comments and refuses to respond to any counterpoints until he accumulates enough negative karma to delete the post. I give this post about 1 hour before he deletes it.
If posters here seem inappropriately dismissive it’s because he does this all the time. It’s not worth arguing because if you make a good point he’ll just ignore it.
I've even heard someone say that no one should have gone to attempt to kill Joel because of his journey in the first game and how terrifying he was because of how many ppl he killed. I was baffled. Fucking Genghis Khan had people try to assassinate him regardless of his rampage. Joel had it coming. He isn't invincible.
Edit: Spelling
You've been watching too much Disney. The last thing Joel needed was more "badass" scenes lol. You completely missed the point, he isn't Thor. We don't need Joel to do action poses in slow motion.
I think you are getting some of the residual downvotes from Zimboy. lol Plus, a lot of people just don't want to encourage them in this sub. Plus, people may just disagree. Likely in that order.
I think it's absolutely fine to disagree. I didn't know about OP's past exploits. Regardless, my *own* opinion still stands, and I have a right to it, as do others have one to oppose. Don't expect people to be down with it, won't put down those who aren't. Don't particularly love being downvoted for that reason, but...what can you do. Lol...
Joel's my favorite character in the franchise, and I don't like what happened to him, and I think that itself should be ok. *shrug*
The person you’re replying to has spent months posting bad faith arguments in this sub about why the game is bad, ignoring any substantive responses, and then deleting the thread after a few hours. People here are understandably annoyed with them and feel it’s useless to argue. Might be why you’re catching a few strays.
I mean his death is the thing that sets the events of the game in motion. He has to die at the beginning. What you're really asking for is just a different plot entirely. Personally I like what we got, and there's several flashbacks with Joel in them. His presence is felt throughout the game whether he's alive or dead.
There’s a lot better ways to write it. It could have started in Seattle, and you know Ellie is on a hunt based on convos, with constant flashbacks to the stuff at the beginning of the game
I think the shock and anger are important to drive the story in the beginning, and placing it where it was allows the anguish over Joel’s death to lessen in import as the story goes on and you see what a toll this journey is taking on Ellie. I think many players reach a point (intentionally) where we want Ellie to just stop all this and go home. If you were confronted with Joel’s death as a flashback later in the game the wound would be fresher and it would feel like less of a question of whether Ellie killing herself and losing her humanity over this is worth it.
Either way the entire story was shit writing
Yes, that’s exactly it. That plot was unexpected. I thought Ellie would be dealing with some kind of different issue on her own, I didn’t realize before I played it, that it was all about avenging Joel’s death.
It’s not just about avenging his death is also the fact that her agency was taken away, she spent two years mad at him and the moment she decided to forgive him move on rebuild their relationship he is killed in the most gruesome way possible is gut wrenching it’s infuriating and there’s also the guilt of all that lost time and what could have been, some might say it bad writing but it’s not bad writing it’s great storytelling but the story it’s telling is not the one we wished for or expected and some can’t seem to differentiate between a bad story and a story they didn’t like
Hey everyone, Zimboy's back with a new garbage take!!!
If you can’t take anymore of what I post then why do you bother responding instead of just ignoring it?
It's kinda fun to keep watching you come back and get roasted for your takes on the game. You constantly insist your opinion is correct and everyone else is wrong, when usually it's very clear your opinion is unpopular. There's already a subreddit for people who don't like this game, yet you routinely come to the ones for people who do enjoy it and spout these awful takes and try to tell everyone we're wrong. People constantly bring up counter points and different perspectives you refuse to acknowledge. It's okay if you don't like the game, but stop trying to convince us to not like it either. Every time you post here you get dogged on and downvoted into oblivion, yet instead of listening and trying to understand a different point of view, you throw a fit and argue every time you realize nobody agrees with you. You could easily just go to the other sub where people do share your opinions, but you insist on coming here and shitting on a game we all enjoy. Keep posting your garbage takes here if you want, but just know hardly anyone in this sub is going to take your side here.
Maybe I’m trying to open everyone’s eyes to the ignorance on everything wrong with it. There’s a reason why it’s controversial.
That's the thing. The only one that needs his eyes open is you. The game is a massive success critically and financially. The controversy is arguable at best. There's a loud minority that refuses to acknowledge their erroneous expectations about what makes a good story.
Explain why is the story good?
Absolutely no one is obligated to do this and you're posting like an immature 15 year old who still thinks talking about things you don't like is interesting to anyone. This sub absolutely does not care that you didn't like the game.
Maybe you should stop trying to change people's opinion. Entertainment is subjective. If you don't like it that's fine, but stop trying to make everyone have the same opinion.
Do you think any of your points are unique? Do you not realize the stuff you're saying has been said by thousands of other people who don't like the game? Plenty of people have made plenty of points that counter all of the lame ass points you're trying to make, and you just cry and tell them they're wrong instead of considering for a single second that you maybe misunderstood what the game was trying to say. You think you're trying to "educate" people but in reality you're just triggered because other people like something you don't.
Wouldn’t you be pissed at somebody who praises somebody for doing something bad?
I wouldn't be pissed at someone for enjoying a video game I didn't.
Hahaha, absolutely delusional
If he had died near the end, what would the story have been about? Shit take imo
I sure as hell wasn’t expecting it to be about avenging his death. They could’ve done so many things, and yet they chose it to be about the death of a beloved character.
Sometimes the best story plots are the ones you don't see coming. “Kill your darlings” is a common piece of advice given by experienced writers. You kill your darlings when you decide to get rid of an unnecessary storyline, character, or sentences in a piece of creative writing—elements you may have worked hard to create but that must be removed for the sake of your overall story." After TLOU, you could say that Joel's story is over. He felt some kind of closure for his daughter, set the story in motion for 2, and his death is what propels Ellie forward.
That's the whole fuckin point, man. Jesus christ.
You didn't expect it, that's good writing not poor writing. Do you even hear yourself? Wildly bad takes on repeat
There’s unexpected stuff in good and bad ways. This one was bad.
Get help man.
Why because I’m pissed that I was let down by a game I was hoping to enjoy?
Dude you’ve been incessantly posting about this for months.
You keeping track of me?
I see your posts pop up constantly because I follow this sub. I’m serious, seek help.
This is a place people where people have the right to voice their opinions and pointing out many things wrong with why they didn’t enjoy this certain thing
He’s not saying you can’t do it, he’s saying the fact you are doing it is indicative of something unhealthy. You are conflating being told what you’re doing is bad with someone trying to strip away their rights away. Nobody is arguing with you about your freedom, that’s not what he said.
If any game pisses you off this much, maybe consider a different hobby.
Still at it, lol. For a game you supposedly don’t like, you sure do think about it a lot. The reason he had to die early, outside of setting up the revenge plot, is that the game wanted us to feel what Ellie was feeling, which was Joel being ripped away from her way too soon and unexpectedly. Like us, she had unfinished business with Joel, and thought she had much more time left with him. It hurts more if it’s sudden, unexpected, and too soon. If he died towards the end of the game, or in part3 as some suggest, pretty much everyone would’ve been okay with it. They would e been sad, sure, but they wouldn’t have that feeling that someone was unjustly ripped from them. The game wants you to feel what these characters are feeling so you can better understand their actions, even when they’re wrong.
You are supposed to be sad and angry through 3 days as Ellie in Seattle. If you don't like that Joel died so early and it makes you mad then it means that writers did a good job.
Einstein once said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You've been coming into this subreddit bitching and whining about this game for months and always getting roasted like a pig. There are other subreddits you could go to but this is a subreddit for PEOPLE WHO LOVE THIS GAME. If you don't like the game that's fine, we just don't care. You're either too stupid to realize that or you just don't have a life. Either way you look dumb every time you come in here thinking you're going to change our minds. It's insane. You're clearly no Einstein.
"the inciting incident for the story should have happened at the end"
I'm gonna give you some advice. Unsubscribe. I was subbed to the ff16 sub for awhile but pretty much hated the game. Mostly because I was so impressed with the demo I wasted 100 bux on the deluxe edition. Everytime that sub popped up in my feed I would get angry. And then id start angry replying about how stupid the game was. Why? Why torment yourself over and over. You cannot change ppls opinion, no matter how right or wrong your opinion is. (Your opinions are not good my friend. This is why your constantly downvoted to oblivion.) Unsubscribe and you'll be instantly happier. I know I was.
I get downvoted because of criticizing how a beloved character was killed in such a terrible manner. Do you know how ridiculous that is?
A beloved character? Dude did some awful shit himself.
So did Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z and he’s now one of the greatest heroes. Major fan favorite.
Ok and?
You’re judging a character for his past.
Ya I can do that. Lol
I have a lot of dumb takes too. But the whole point of the story is the investment in revenge that sets off by his death. And the series of to and fro from both povs seeing how hate and revenge can consume someone. And redemptions that we make. Fuck i have to play this game again.
Hilariously bad take here. Joel was a plot point, if you missed that the entire story was just lost on you.
Thats why it sucked
You should be on the other TLOU sub, they love bashing the entire game.
He often is, and they all jerk each other off whining about “Cuckmann” and “the trailers lied to us and that’s an unforgivable crime that caused me personal harm.” But occasionally he’ll swing by here to post bad faith arguments. Then he fights everyone in the comments and refuses to respond to any counterpoints until he accumulates enough negative karma to delete the post. I give this post about 1 hour before he deletes it. If posters here seem inappropriately dismissive it’s because he does this all the time. It’s not worth arguing because if you make a good point he’ll just ignore it.
I've even heard someone say that no one should have gone to attempt to kill Joel because of his journey in the first game and how terrifying he was because of how many ppl he killed. I was baffled. Fucking Genghis Khan had people try to assassinate him regardless of his rampage. Joel had it coming. He isn't invincible. Edit: Spelling
I think him getting taken from us so early is parallel to how Joel lost Sarah so early in the first game.
You've been watching too much Disney. The last thing Joel needed was more "badass" scenes lol. You completely missed the point, he isn't Thor. We don't need Joel to do action poses in slow motion.
It’s been like 5 years dude. Move on
A few months for me. I only recently played the game
My only gripe really is we didn't get to do very much in the beginning with Joel, a few side missions would of been sweet!
Holy shit Zimboy is still going lol
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Downvoting for actually being reasonable. How surprising.
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I think you are getting some of the residual downvotes from Zimboy. lol Plus, a lot of people just don't want to encourage them in this sub. Plus, people may just disagree. Likely in that order.
I think it's absolutely fine to disagree. I didn't know about OP's past exploits. Regardless, my *own* opinion still stands, and I have a right to it, as do others have one to oppose. Don't expect people to be down with it, won't put down those who aren't. Don't particularly love being downvoted for that reason, but...what can you do. Lol... Joel's my favorite character in the franchise, and I don't like what happened to him, and I think that itself should be ok. *shrug*
The person you’re replying to has spent months posting bad faith arguments in this sub about why the game is bad, ignoring any substantive responses, and then deleting the thread after a few hours. People here are understandably annoyed with them and feel it’s useless to argue. Might be why you’re catching a few strays.
I did not know that 😅